oxygen
oxygen
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I don't get the appeal of playing like that personally, but it's not like they're breaking any rules so it doesn't make any more sense to ask people to stop doing it than it does to tell someone to stop playing a certain killer. Which doesn't make sense.
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As someone that likes looking at stats I'd like them too.
But make the disclaimer telling people to not jump to conclusions after seeing a single number on a graph or something really big and red. Preferably flashing or even cycling through all the colours of the rainbow to make sure everyone sees it 🙃
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At times it can become a bit of a mess when several interactions are mapped to the same button. Same if you try to vault a window with a locker near it as survivor, you better make sure you're looking away from that locker when you press spacebar.
As said you can look away from the window to pick up, but the vault prompt should probably only be there if you can see the window itself. So you can look up to pick up instead of vaulting or something like that.
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If you ask me you don't even have to bring up SWF to begin with to start seeing potential flaws with the idea.
Even in TF2 spy can be difficult to play against players that know what they're doing. Even without talking about straight up competitive play (not really the in-game competitive queue, but third-party leagues and services) it gets to the point where the Spy almost needs to strike when their team distracts the enemy to get anything resembling consistent results. And even then it's not really the disguises that let the spy get away with murder, but his ability to have true invisibility while repositioning.
A killer in DBD doesn't have that. The survivors don't have to worry about a big dude with a minigun shredding them and another 2 flying around with rocket launchers while at the same time watching out for the spy that might be behind them. They can 100% focus on whatever action they're doing (generator, hiding, totem, altruism, whatever) and watching out for the killer.
And then on top of that you have SWF. Or depending on how the killer is implemented something as simple as "just crouch randomly when another survivor sees you if you're against the disguise killer, because the killer can't crouch" being popularized as a sign to confirm real survivors.
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A killer randomly asked what everyone's favorite sausage is, and after telling them that I really like chorizo they seemed quite content with my answer and we ended up talking about sausages and associated condiments for like 5 minutes.
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@freyaolsen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681244#Comment_1681244
Hey oxygen,
absolutely! I did not expect these findings, but this highlights the complexity of video game research; we should be cautious with gaming stereotypes. Unfortunately the discussion is quite extensive (and cannot be translated into pie charts), which is why I chose to leave it out in the interest of brevity. Apologies!
Oh yeah I can imagine and totally understand keeping it brief. Your summary did a good job of pointing out some surprising findings while keeping it "accessible", and that in itself gives people something to think about and discuss if they desire 👍️
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First and foremost congrats on graduating!
And that's an interesting summary as well. It's interesting in its own way when a lot of predictions turn out to not be correct, something to learn from it regardless afterall. Thanks for sharing 🙂
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I think a lot of it just comes down to how going against her "feels" compared to something like Deathslinger and Spirit. Nurse pretty much gets on a hill and yells out that she's preparing a blink, you can both see and hear her doing it and while she does so you can do whatever you want to try to be as slippery as possible. Meanwhile Deathslinger and Spirit have a lack of really reactable wind-up and an intentional deprivation of information respectively. Not saying that's inherently and automatically bad, it's quite simply part of their design before anyone jumps on me about it 😄
I'm not here to say one thing or another about any of the killers as I don't have that much of an opinion on them, but I quite simply feel like for a lot of players it's easier to think something like "Wow, nice blink" when a Nurse hits them as opposed to something like a practically unreactable quickscope/repeated faked ADS from Deathslinger or a Spirit appearing next to them and hitting them. They were warned that the blink was coming and the Nurse still hit them, case closed and it's kinda hard for someone to convince themselves that anything else happened.
And for the main question in your thread title, I by no means think something should be entirely excused just because it's hard to do, but as long as sufficient skill doesn't allow people to straight up make something in a game go beyond what it's designed to do in an undesirable way the I don't think it's a problem either.
An example of something that got changed for a reason like this is the Ambassador in Team Fortress 2. The tl;dr of that change is that it was a gun that essentially let a class designed around pretty close-range combat excel at any range if the user could hit headshots. It was changed to have damage falloff (something headshots normally don't have in TF2), and very similar discussions could be seen in the community. Some thought it was fine as using it in that way took a lot of skill, others thought it let the class that used it overstep the boundaries of its core design. And even though the change went through many people still have passionate opinions on it to this day.
And to loop back to DBD, I don't think Nurse is guilty of anything like that. She's designed around her ability to blink from the ground up, down to practically being required to do so to hit people in the first place. Not saying nothing about her should ever be changed and that everything is perfect, but as someone that enjoys playing her but at the same time by no means an expert there's people far more qualified to ponder that than me.
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Would be a completely different game.
Not saying that's a bad thing, personally I think it sounds fun to at least try it out. But it's by no means a change that could be made in isolation, so it's hard to really know if it'd be more fun as I can't imagine all the changes that would be required to make it work.
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I've done the same like 3 times since I started playing and it has always let me come back with more excitement. I burn out on games no matter how much I love them if I play them "too much". So it sounds like a good time to take a break.
Personally I've always returned when some sort of new content is released or an event starts, so on top of returning to the game there's something new or at least unusual going on as well. Tends to be a good time to return to any game a player takes a break from.
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All of them. There's different types of skill and not all are as "flashy" as mechanical skill which is what people often think of. Same goes for survivor.
The overfocus on mechanical skill is most of the time just a thing people do, and at worst genuine elitism. Take it from a former mechanical-aim elitist that considered all skills that don't involve getting headshots in FPS games or complex button inputs as "inferior" and "not real skill", lol.
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The infeasibility of restricting 3rd party VOIP applications isn't really a technical one (even though a lot of the time the technical solutions themselves could easily be circumvented), they're quite simply an extremely well-established part of modern multiplayer gaming and it's practically off the table to interfere with them as a result. Not to mention at least one console (Xbox I'm pretty sure) explicitly forbids game developers from interfering with their Party Chat in any way.
And while that's speculation I honestly wouldn't be surprised if more console/platform owners take a similar stance in the future - the facilitation of social/party play is extremely important in the modern gaming industry.
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No, people shouldn't "uninstall" because they run stuff someone else doesn't like. Don't care if it's targetted at killers or survivors, people shouldn't fall into the scrub pit and blame players for their grievances with parts of the game to begin with.
Not saying people can't express their opinions on perks, items, killers, add-ons or whatever else. But there's a big difference between "Thing is bad and should be changed" and "Thins is bad, should be changed, and you're BAD for using it". One is a statement that can actually lead to discussion, the other is pointless player shaming scrub BS.
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That's really cool to hear actually. I've never been entirely happy when I've tried "cloud gaming" type services in the past, but then again I'm extremely sensitive to input lag and even the smallest performance hiccups.
But I still find the technology itself very interesting and cool and I really hope it's successful enough to be improved upon more and more 👍️
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Or maybe we should just leave the whole "smol pp" thing and the cringy player-shaming scrub BS like it to fade into obscurity instead of trying to apply it to more things? Don't care if it's about killers or survivors, shaming players for using stuff in the game you don't like is just straight up not constructive at best afterall.
People will use strong stuff. If you someone feels something is too strong or otherwise undesirable it's perfectly possible to discuss that without shaming players for daring to use stuff they dislike.
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If you use Haunted Grounds you could have more hexes than there are dull totems on the map 🙃
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That's quite simply some form of negativity bias.
It's not that easy to remember all the survivor that suicide on hook and don't jump off, the ones attempting once right before they get unhooked and don't get off and failures to do so in general. It's fairly easy to remember when they do jump off and prolong the match as it's less likely than failing to do so, even easier when it results in an escape. And if we want to go even further it's even easier to remember when they jump off and slam-dunk themselves into the hatch right by the hook with a key or escape because they have DS or something.
@HEX_MalusGrey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1670308#Comment_1670308
What makes you think i am lying?
I have seen this many times as killer and unhooked myself a few times. All gens done + no survivors left to unhook + attemps left = Much higher chance to unhook yourself.
Honestly i thought this is common knowledge. 4% chance is almost impossible, unhooking yourself under the circumstances above is not. OP has noticed the exact same. Why else complaining about survivor getting the hatch? Must have been the last survivor left with first time hook.
4% per attempt is far from "almost impossible". With only one attempt people should get off 1/25 times, and with all 3 attempts (~12%) they should get off about 1/8.33333... times. For comparison rolling 1,1 on a pair of dice will happen 1/36 times (2.777...%). Same for any other combination of the same result on both dice.
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Personally I just view it as a sportsmanship type thing to say no matter what, and it has been that way for almost 20 years of gaming for me at this point. But I am aware not everyone views it this way.
If you want to err on the side of caution just wait for someone else to gg first before you do. If someone somehow says gg and then finds a way to get mad when you do the same in return then I don't even want to know what ascended mental gymnastics they've got going on 😄
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It takes a lot for me to view a game as just straight up not good in any way, the presence of cheaters, mass disconnects or afk player(s) are pretty much the only times I'll consider a match a garbage waste of time.
But the really good games in my eyes are the types where everyone does a bit of everything. You know the type, everyone gets a decent amount of points as it wasn't just one survivor running the killer for 5 gens or a killer camping 1-2 people to death while the others did gens and left easy. Basically "close games" no matter if all survivors, no survivors or anything inbetween end up escaping, I think they're the best no matter which side I'm playing.
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Mori spamming was often just prolonging the inevitable (especially when done to the last survivor) while all the other stuff like tbagging, clicking, hitting hooked survivor, nodding or whatever as you down someone, spamming notifications and just about all the other "annoying" stuff ultimately has no impact on how a match plays out besides being annoying to some players.
If you're the last survivor and the killer decided to mori spam you for 3 minutes and 59 seconds you couldn't do anything about it. Someone clicking their flashlight doesn't stop you from doing whatever you want, just like a killer hitting you on the hook doesn't make you get sacrificed faster or anything.
And of course, killers can just let people bleed out and that's not against any rules. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to see stuff that might seem it more "attractive" to do so get changed.
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@ClickyClicky said:
That’s DBD in a nutshell. Killers hard tunnel the rookie out and then act like the survivors are the bad guys when they tbag at the end.
Survivors bring OoO, Ormond/coldwind offerings and act toxic and then act like the killer is the bad guy when he starts to play scummy in return.
Both sides are full of hypocrites.
Nailed it.
If everyone ends up going all out and people move on after the match ends, that's fine. But I can't even pretend to have any sympathy for people that want to go all out and then throw a tantrum when their opponent(s) do the same thing.
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Nothing they did is reportable.
Certainly sounds like they are either ban evading or got a new account (perhaps with family sharing the game) specifically to troll new players, but that can't exactly be conclusively proven. And pretty sure that technically isn't against any rules, just a dick move.
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Only thing I can really think of is having a "press button to find someone to chase" ability. Even more so if you use the Restraint addons for even more tracking.
I used to play a lot of Doc and I still like him a whole lot, and this went for old Doc as well. Just whip out your hand at the start before anyone had madness and you'll quickly find at least one survivor, and this sorta goes for his cooldowned shock nowadays even though passive madness increase is gone. So I'm speaking from experience as what I "warn" about was very much the case for me 😄
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Not really a tactic, but the scummiest thing someone can do during a match is to go into said match with "make someone mad" as some sort of primary objective. The "play for salt" stuff. Luckily a lot of the people that do it are gigantic hypocrites that cry their eyes out when it doesn't go as they hoped or their opponent(s) give them the same treatment in return.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
Steam doesn't really filter at all. I see racist ######### all the time.
They do, but since people can change all parts of their profile whenever they want they might not get reported enough to have their profile reviewed before they change all their info back + delete alias history. So someone has to get enough reports/attention on their profile to be reviewed before they change back and stop getting reports, I'd assume.
And it's not even stuff like racism exclusively, I've seen someone get their entire profile "factory reset" and their profile editing privileges removed temporarily for having what could best be described as "ironic sexual roleplay logs" on their profile. So even stuff considered "obscene" can get people punished.
But people can just put on some edgy name and avatar to troll for a play session then wipe all the evidence of it from another user's perspective. And with Crossplay console players have no easy way of reporting a Steam profile either.
EDIT: But for automated filters, yeah there's not that much. They're currently testing a method for in-game chat censoring in TF2 and CSGO I think, probably because automated cheater bots had a field day headshotting everything while spamming really racist and overall unpleasant garbage in chat. At first they restricted people's ability to use chat (free to play players couldn't chat at all), now there's an opt-out and customizable censoring thing implemented that they're trying out.
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It varies, even though there's one game I always play at least semi-regularly: Team Fortress 2.
Other than that lately I've also been playing a fair bit of Escape From Tarkov, Crusader Kings 3 and also been sorta getting back into Civ 5 and Civ 6.
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It's only as boring as the tile it's happening on.
An actual tile with walls and a chance to trick the other player? A chance to learn how someone runs/chases throughout a match and counter that based on their habits? And a chance for them to throw you off by doing something unexpected? That's the most fun thing in the game if you ask me.
A trash heap Autohaven loop where all you basically do can do is hold W until the pallet goes down? Yeah that's pretty boring.
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I don't really care no matter what role I'm playing, not like I can control if people DC or not anyway. Nothing I do would stop DC's like people that disconnect on their first down for some bizarre reason, or someone that disconnects after getting tilted in 10 seconds and swinging way too early at me vaulting twice.
If someone DC's and I'm killer I'll just play normally but hold back on killing, can still have some fun chases but it doesn't even feel like a "real win" at that point so I couldn't care less about that.
If someone DC's and I'm survivor I'd honestly rather just die and go to a real match instead. But if the others are still trying I'll play it out and try to get some points and stuff.
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I had a silly moment with another survivor where we looked up and tbagged next to eachother, and the cloaked wraith approaching us thought we were tbagging him. Guess that counts?
He quickly understood the misunderstanding post-match and we all had a laugh at it though 😄
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
I don't think I have ever seen a fog whisperer with TTV in their name...
This is a normal difference between streamers trying to establish themselves and those that are already established, in all games.
If some new streamer shows up in a lobby some people might mess with them, but at least it's most of the time nothing personal. A lot of the big streamers have rather fanatic fans and fanatic haters, so it's often not worth it to use the name they stream under if they're on a platform where they can change their name.
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Make her watch the Shrek intro, preferably on DVD for the authentic 2001 experience.
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@FFabeq said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641036#Comment_1641036
It was a joke lmao
Alright, I couldn't tell and I have seen people that seem pretty serious about the whole "People like that deserve this or that" mindset on here.
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@FFabeq said:
Could you give me these people nicknames? Someone is going to have a very nice message :)
Never ever do this. I don't doubt OP in this thread, but nothing stops someone from just making up stuff about someone they want to have shamed or harassed. And besides, giving you the nicknames would be against forum rules to begin with (for that exact reason)
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Best:
- Entity blocker and the removal of the purest old-school form of infinites (two windows on one wall too long to walk around).
- Licenses, there's no denying they draw in players and it's just cool to play as and against horror icons.
- End game collapse. Now all we need to do is make everyone realize it exists to end the match, not to favor one side or the other.
- A lot of the changes to how old stuff was supercharged beyond belief early on. No-hook-required moris, tap-m2-BNPs, the earliest iteration of Decisive Strike, We'll Make It applying to self healing and so on. Good riddance.
- The flashlight "rework" that got rid of instablinds among other things. Not just because instablinds, but it standardized the flashlight timings which made them more fun and reliable to use in my opinion.
Worst:
- When they removed the need for timing for flashlight/pallet saves. Luckily it was removed but that one still baffles me to this day.
- The disabling/"abandoning" of moonlight offerings. Has less to do with balance for me and more to do with how some maps looked amazing with modified lightning.
- The "nerf" to the BP gains on We're Gonna Live Forever. As it offers no benefit besides blood points I don't see why it had to be reduced besides "blood point economy"
- Two bad releases, Mettle of Man and Legion. And while I wouldn't call either a "worst thing" the reworks to both could have been better as well.
- Hawkins. Again this one is my opinion, but I just find the map incredibly boring to play as both killer and survivor.
Honorable mention to the Freddy rework for being good (it adressed the main concerns and Freddy is considered far stronger post-rework) and kinda bad (I still miss playing old Freddy at times, he was very different) at the same time.
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People that shame other players for daring to use something they dislike.
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If you're gonna add voice chat to the game, it shouldn't have any restrictions whatsoever. Otherwise people will just use the methods they already use like voice chat apps on PC, party chats on consoles and so on.
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I actually like how the map looks and the theme a whole lot, but I find the map pretty boring no matter what I'm playing. Could probably be improved by just having its size reduced.
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I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would agree with changes that reduce the grind.
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As far as I know the intended behavior (matchmaking based on the highest rank in the party) was never changed, it's quite simply not working properly... like with matchmaking in general at times. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it kinda seems like you're implying the devs intentionally removed the highest-rank-matchmaking change which I highly doubt is the case.
With how messy matchmaking can get at this point the best thing to do is probably to hope MMR matchmaking works better once it's put back into use. Both for general match quality and adherence to the highest-rank-matchmaking rule for parties.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1637621#Comment_1637621
We think of it as taking care of an issue that new players have, and veteran players don't. This is why Unrelenting is the prime example. Veteran Killers miss far fewer of their shots than new players, so the utility of this perk goes way down as you get better at the game.
I know we can construe this to mean that every perk is a crutch as if you were so good you wouldn't really need any perks anyway. But that's not a terribly useful path to go down.
So in the end, it's really a judgement call. I'm just trying to give some insight into how we look at those.
Cool, that makes sense. Sorta like "training wheels", and I don't mean that in a bad way - nothing inherently wrong with stuff like that 👍️
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@Almo said:
There is a very small pool of what we consider crutch perks on the dev team. Technician and Unrelenting come to mind.
I'm curious, what's the definition you go with when it comes to the term "crutch", if any?
Personally I've always viewed it as something that lowers the skill floor AND the skill ceiling at the same time, but just from this thread it seems like there's quite a variety in the definitions people use. If you guys work with a clear definition of the term in mind it would be interesting to hear it 😄
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@LittilAvindar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1633206#Comment_1633206
I would think any form of blatant cheating in DBD would be a bannable offense, if evidence can be provided. Maybe BHVR won't act on it, but it's very clearly cheating.
You can't really prove streamsniping unless they admit it or stream/record themselves doing it, that's the thing. No matter how much it seems like streamsniping happened, that alone does not prove it.
Both PUBG and Fortnite has "streamsniping" controversies in the past, where suspected streamsnipers got in trouble.. and then it turned out they were completely innocent. That's not a good look at all.
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When they've made a fix for it?
And just from how the two bugs happen I'd say the DS bugs seems easier to figure out. It happens with certain killers, and it happens to all "wiggle off the shoulder" stuns. Maybe it's the killer's frame or something? It's pretty specific and consistent.
Meanwhile the hook thing seems to just ... happen. Seems harder to investigate and figure out.
But that's not relevant of course. Clearly one getting fixed before the other is some sort of bias /s
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That's how games even partially following the "Game as a service" model work.
You don't pay for any content in the state it's in when you buy it, just leave that mindset at the door. You pay for a license to use whatever content you paid for in whatever state it ends up in. You agree to this in the TOS of the game. Sure they can't just revoke your access to content that you paid for (unless you get banned of course), but the things you pay for can change in all sorts of ways for any reason.
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Mindgaming myself. I always assume my opponent(s) will mix it up and do something tricky, and even if they've demonstrated they just hold W and don't look in any other direction than forwards (as both killer and survivor)... surely this time they're gonna fake the fault or something... nope! Surely the huntress won't pull out a hatchet for the 4th time and she'll walk through the pallet for a hit this time... nope! 😄
And I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong about playing like that if it works. I'm just saying it's my kryptonite.
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For me my "niceness" is just a natural side effect of me playing how I personally want to play. I just want to chase people as that's what I find the most fun, and it's kinda hard to camp or tunnel someone while I'm chasing someone far away from the hook. Sure I could win more often and "harder" by playing differently, but I have more fun playing my way and that's what I'm personally looking for from DBD. I don't blame anyone else for playing how they want, and I expect nothing more or less in return.
Play however you want, just don't cheat or be a hypocrite. Anyone that plays "hard" to win and then starts crying when their opponent(s) do the same are pathetic and saying they get no sympathy from me is an understatement.
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If I see the 4th survivor as I'm downing the 3rd survivor.
That's pretty much it. If they get the hatch they get the hatch, I'm back in queue for another game sooner and that's fine with me.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621974#Comment_1621974
How would this be enforced? Dunno about other platforms, but on Xbox the party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Heck we can even be playing different games. And a few years back i believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. What could the devs do even if they wished?
I assume inviting someone to your survivor lobby inside DBD would make it activate, wouldn't have anything to do with party chat.
Just saying it could be implemented fairly easily on a technical level, as it's an in-match mechanical debuff it's not like it would ever be implemented.
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@Primalux135 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1620185#Comment_1620185
Debuff is only applied to the SWF not the solo
They're still playing with fellow survivors that have debuffs on them though.
Mechanical debuffs will never happen anyway, but if they did it would only make sense to have them for exclusively 4man teams for this reason.
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It can be pretty handy if you actually know someone has it before it activates and people play around it, yes.
Especially if the people in question are actually willing to do stuff like letting someone go struggle phase/die on hook if it seems like the correct play. Something that a lot of people aren't really willing to do intentionally in my experience.
But it's also important to keep in mind that in the tournament they're basically playing a different game. Not only does it have an entirely different scoring system that encourages that sort of very... collectivistic survivor gameplay, every match is only one half of a full "game" as well as both teams play both killer and survivor, and both sides earn points in specific ways. That also has a big impact on how people play.