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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1463570#Comment_1463570
Precisely why we say whenever the player clicks "ready" to go into lobby they are ready, no need to change anything from that point on, either side. Maybe make survs loick first so killer can respond to build or items.
This issue clearly illustrates how one side can see something balanced and the other not.
IMO when you click ready you should be ready, no switching last 6 seconds.
The difference here is that is not true for survivors. I've played many survivor games where I readied up and then saw that every survivor had a flashlight, so I took mine off. I've had other games where as solos we decided to run all the same meme perks.
As SWF maybe you are prefectly ready when you hit ready and start searching a match, but its fun to talk and change stuff as a solo with other solos. I do it all the time.
######### if I join the game and see three dweets, I change to dweet. I honestly change my builds less as killer than survivor once in a lobby. About the only think I change is, if I see windows store users I equip a mori or for flashlights I add light born... other than that the only other time I change my killer is if
As to you change once the lobby is loaded I actually do this a lot. If I get someone I know and they prefer a certain killer of mine or if someones name says "SPIRIT = DC" or something like "[BAD WORD] for Myers" then I switch to Spirit or Myers.
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@Purgatorian said:
Although I don't like the fact killers are being singled out by the devs yet again, both killers and survivors should be locked, it doesn't bother me too much. I pick a killer, join a lobby then play, I cannot recall one time I switched in the lobby.
The one thing that would seriously bother me would be if perks and add ons were locked and could not be changed since killers may have to change these to counter certain items (keys mainly or three or four flashlights) the survivors bring.
The reason killers are most likely being locked out
You do understand the lock out is most likely because they are giving you a MMR value for each killer, because you may be better with one killer than another. If they allow you to queue up with a killer you are unskilled with you would get matched with easier survivors, but if they allowed you to switch, you would just have people queue up with a killer they are bad with and then switch to one they are good with...
To my knowledge perks and addons were still changable.
As to you change once the lobby is loaded I actually do this a lot. If I get someone I know and they prefer a certain killer of mine or if someones name says "SPIRIT = DC" or something like "######### for Myers" then I switch to Spirit or Myers.
I do however understand why killers are going to be locked and survivors wont be. It rarely matters who you play as survivor, your skill is about the same. However, the same doesn't apply to killer. Like I am a fairly good Huntress, piggy, Oni, Deathslinger, Triangle Head and Myers killer, but pretty terrible at Billy, Nurse, Demodoggy, Doctor, etc.
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You do understand the lock out is most likely because they are giving you a MMR value for each killer, because you may be better with one killer than another. If they allow you to queue up with a killer you are unskilled with you would get matched with easier survivors, but if they allowed you to switch, you would just have people queue up with a killer they are bad with and then switch to one they are good with...
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@Tiyr said:
PGTW is strong , but with Silent update we have a counter if we choose to run it. Which is a much better way to nerf the strong stuff imo. Maybe they can tweak the timer if we ever get smaller maps but that's a problem for another day
As someone who has run RA since this update... Yeah its kind of a ######### perk to "counter".
- Pop last twice as long and you get it way more times per match then a survivors gets RA. The argument here might be that multiple survivors can run RA (I've legit seen like 1-3 other people since release where someone else had this perk and I have yet to see anyone other than myself actually use it in a match)
Basically, RA sounds like an anti-pop perk, but really all it does is stop survivors from finishing a gen that is 99% because you used it when the killer with pop got near you. I think as SWF you can better utilize RA as an anti-pop perk, but as solo its basically useless.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1455760#Comment_1455760
What makes you say that... I tend to be harsh on myself so my gameplay may look bad to me
so offering it up for people to criticize isn't hard for me to do
You're using two slow downs on a killer with a built in slow down for a power on one of the most killer favorable maps... Like if you don't 4k with that you kinda screwed up... Shoot in that case I am the best Huntress to ever live because I 4k on Hawkins all the time and I don't even use her power... Also you crouched like 5 times and dashed twice... one of those crouches and dashes was after you killed the last person (to be fair I watched this at 2x speed so I my count on dashes and crouches might be off by 1 or 2 either way).
So I was just assuming you were memeing, or you just picked the worst video to showcase your skills and was kinda curious to know which one. I am not trying to say you are a bad killer, but if you are being serious you shouldn't ever use hawkins as a video to show skill as a killer.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1455695#Comment_1455695
Alright don't say I didn't warn you
Are you memeing, I am so confused here...
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@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1438762#Comment_1438762
Pop is like, the only reliable slowdown in a snowball-slowdown meta.
DS, SB, BT makes survivors think they are better than they are.
God loops like cow tree make them think they're better than they are.
I mean I am a red rank killer that has only ever used perks like Pop or Ruin when chat did a build request. The problem is you don't need to 4k every game to be good at the game. I 3-4 kills on average, but yes I also get games where I get stomped on. Its whatever. I am not so sweaty and try hard that I need a 4k every game. So in short, Pop only helps bad killers play above there skill.
With the exception of SB, neither BT or DS help survivors play above their skill level unless you let them. You will rarely ever activate BT if you either don't chill by hook or if you try to avoid chasing the hooked person. Now to be fair, I understand this isn't always possible, but really only effects 1 outta 10 of my games. Now DS can be an issue because its not really an anti-tunnel perk and survivors can use it in a ######### way, like working on a gen 5 feet from hook (In these cases, yes its the survivor playing unskillfully and like a what many would call "toxic")
Sprint Burst, that probably makes some survivors feel better than they actually are.
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We're Gonna Farm Forever and Pop goes the Weasel.
We're gonna farm forever makes survivors play in a stupid manner to get extra BP
Pop makes killers think they are better than they are.
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I've always compared slowdown perks to second chance perks, as these two actually relate better for each side in doing the same thing
- A second chance perk is designed to give the survivor more time in the game
- A slow down perk is designed to give the killer more time in the game
As for insta downs, I don't actually have a problem with them as base-kit killers, I do dislike addon's that give killers insta-downs like huntress and clown. To be fair, I don't seem to actually mind Deathslingers insta-down, probably because its harder to achieve and can't really be abused like clown on huntress where you can just get up close and spam.
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Can I please have an option to not match with PGTW or Killers that run 2+ Slow Down perks, or Mori's?
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@Lt_R1ZE said:
Most of u on the forums complain about how survivor sided it is I get that well I saw a post where they want a meta change because they are tired of being Ds or Bt or unbreakable but if you want survivors to stop running those perks don't camp bt won't activate. Don't tunnel ds will run out and don't slug unbreakable won't work. Simple u want a meta change U change meta.
So I do agree with you as a killer player sorta. I tend to avoid camping or tunneling however I still see these perks activate. Less so then I think some killers do.
Let's start with BT, Often times I end up chasing someone to hook and that person has BT, they pull the survivor off the hook and since I don't really care I still chase the BT user. However, the hooked person tends to try and force a BT hit. This is different than taking one, for example taking a hit would be as I got to swing you block it, this is fine by me. My problem comes in when I am trying to chase the other person and the hooked person forces me to hit them by blocking my path.
Next lets go over DS. The problem here is DS isn't used as a anti tunnel perk anymore, its uses because they have it. Many survivors I come across will just start working on gens in-front of me or try to take chase because they have DS. This isn't something the killer is doing. DS needs slightly changed so that it's more anti-tunnel and not anti-momentum.
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If I have to stare at a butt for 8-12 minutes I would prefer to to be a woman's butt...
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@Nurgling7 said:
Not sure how throwing the matches helps your cause.
I mean he got 208k.... Not really a thrown match. Not everyone looks at a kills as wins.
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@Peanits said:
Definitely wouldn't go that far. If you only used it to camp the cage and then tunnel them knowing full well that Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike wouldn't activate, then sure, it's going to be less appealing now (as it should be). Under normal circumstances, however, it still has benefits. Putting them in a cage sends them as far away from you as it can, so if you know all the other survivors are close, you can force them to go across the map to save them. It also allows you to completely avoid flashlight or pallet saves, and saves you the time you would spend picking them up and bringing them to a hook.
@Peanits I've been stating this over and over, my figures feel like they are going to bleed.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1404780#Comment_1404780
If you don't know where the cages are anymore outside of vague ideas, then hook perks not working...doesn't really matter anymore. The only thing it blocks is that "59 second DS where I hooked someone else and forgot I even hooked you." situation which shouldn't exist in the first place. Feels like a weak reason to justify loss of information.
Do you just keep choosing to ignore everything I keep saying about saves? Cages prevent survivors from making any attempt at saving there friend in combination of disabling perks.
Why does everyone keep overlooking the fact that cages also prevent Flashlight Saves, Pallet Stun Saves, Head on Saves, Wiggle Saves, Taking Hit Saves, Breakout Saves, Flip-flop Saves, Sabo Saves. It
These simply do not exist, people keep calling it a free survivor save, which is only half true, but it is also a free hook state, which is fully true. There simply is no way to counter some one from being sent to a cage, period.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1404587#Comment_1404587
They did supposedly give a noise notification when a save happens now so that idea is there.
My problem with that is it's a free save and the killer only knows where it happened after it happened. I've played almost all PH since he came out when I'm killing, and there have been games where I have one or more cages up and when I down and hook the third survivor, I know SOMEONE has to be going for the cage because it's the currently available "need to stop the snowball" location. In those instances, I would head there and try to find and intercept the would-be rescuer. This is the exact same logic as someone who hooks two survivors...odds are everyone else saw survivor 2 get picked up and went for survivor 1, so heading back to pressure that save is an objectively good option. PHead is now denied of that option if he uses his cage. Feels extremely counter-intuitive. "Save time at the cost of information" when information is power in this game.
Yeah but he also denies all survivor hook related perks. On top of that survivors have no way to save someone from being caged like they do with a hook (flahlights, taking hits, sabo, pallet stuns, head on).
This is a trade off with the cages I am okay with. Yes you as killer get slightly less map awareness, but you get a guaranteed hook state.
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@clem1710 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1404544#Comment_1404544
The futhest point is sometimes hard to guess if you cage someone in the center of the map
@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1404544#Comment_1404544
Counterpoint, since I've been arguing that third bullet for an hour now. If I'm in the center of the map, say Crotus Penn, I have no clue where that cage went. Sure if I'm on one part of Azarov's dumbell shape I know they went to the other, but from the middle of a map? You have no idea.
The problem you have here is this, yes the devs are never going to punish killers for camping/tunneling, they have actually said quite the opposite and defended it as a playstyle killers are allowed to use. HOWEVER many of the devs have said that the don't want to reward players for this playstyle. Yes their are perks that help you, but there are many more that discourage it (BBQ, BT, DS, Make You're Choice, Devour). All of these perks reward you for being away from the hook not near it.
The problem with Triangle head is two fold, one his cages don't care about hook related perks, so all of these perks that encourage killers to not camp/tunnel don't apply to him. So you had many killers abusing this. I know it wasn't everyone, but it was enough to make a point.
Now before I get accused of being a survivor main that just cry's, I would like to say I do hope they come back around and make another choice, which is: The survivor screams when released from a cage. This way a killer can know that 1 someone was rescued and where that rescue roughly happened. This still provides killers with information but at the same time discourages tunneling and camping cages.
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Are we completely forgetting that survivors can't stop you from caging someone, no flashlight, no pallet stuns, no taking hits, no breaking hooks... Cages aren't useless they are just more tactical. I am also assuming cages spawn in the same way.
Also to the [BAD WORD] who haven't realized, you can actually use the new warping mechanic in your favor to move the cage around?
Basically there are three reasons to hate these balance changes that I can think of
- I want my free tunnel
- I want my free camp
- And maybe the most reasonable is, Information of where survivors are. Assuming they haven't changed spawn logic, you already know this. They are the furthest they can be from you. The bottom left tells you when they have been saved. You gain all the same information without the ease of tunneling and camping.
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@Asapwinters said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1403983#Comment_1403983
Oh I’m not upset just wanted an explanation..I bend rank 1 sweats over like it’s my job 😂 think I care about 4K haha
I mean you went out of your way to complain about it on the forums, to some extent you are upset. Even if its a fraction.
My main point was better described in reply to another's post.
To be fair, I only find 1-hook mori's and keys that are brought into the match as unbalanced. If you are 2 hook mori'ing people or find a key in the game via a chest then I find them perfectly fine.
Given the information from the OP post, this person brought in a toolbox, so I am going to assume he found the key. To me this was a pretty fair escape.
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sorry replied to wrong post
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@CrusaderNella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1403953#Comment_1403953
Of course. Just like how it is with Corrupt Intervention and such.
Corrupt is a bad example, because gens can't be worked on with corrupt. The better comparison would be thrilling tremors. The real question at this point is, does ruin or surge effect generators under thrilling tremors? Because if so, those would have to be paused.
Also, why should I be kicked off my gen because someone else completed theirs?
Lastly, though I hate everything about this idea and honestly think it should never be implemented, I just want to point out, anyone who thinks 2 minutes is balanced, really needs to just try getting better at killer.
This drastic change would most likely increase my kill rate from 77% to most likely 100% (if you exclude hatch escapes).
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@coppersly said:
It's prediction based on hearing. If you're HoH or deaf in one ear I don't think she's a very good killer for you now. If she still had collision with survivors you might've been able to learn to play around that but she's very reliant on sound now and if you can't pinpoint from it alone you're better off learning someone else sad to say.
Nurse is too to an extant but you can get around that with Shadowborn and other visual tracking perks that Spirit cannot use very well thanks to her aura loss when using her power.
@DevourOfSalt I can't agree more with this comment. It really sucks you're HoH/Deaf in one ear. Spirit is a very strong killer but heavily relies on prediction a survivors movement based on sound. If you are having troubles with this, I would highly recommend you use another killer.
I know it sucks, but it is what it is.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1403983#Comment_1403983
Wouldnt it be also the case though that the killer found the hatch first so they have won yet the survivors have a item which allows them to escape ignoring the exit gates and the fact the hatch has been shut? This is why moris and keys are unbalanced after all.
To be fair, I only find 1-hook mori's and keys that are brought into the match as unbalanced. If you are 2 hook mori'ing people or find a key in the game via a chest then I find them perfectly fine.
Given the information from the OP post, this person brought in a toolbox, so I am going to assume he found the key. To me this was a pretty fair escape.
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So basically you got greedy and lost your 4k and you are upset about it...
Should have just hooked them...
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@RayrafLPP said:
If youre a killer main then give me your build on your favorite killer :)
So if this perks were banned what would you run on survivor and killer?
Survivor:
Adrenaline, Borrowed time, Iron Will, Sprint burst, Lithe, Head on, Balanced landing, Dead hard, Decisive Strike, Self care, Inner strength, we will make it, Unbreakable, Prove thyself, urban evasion, object of obsession, deliverance and spine chill.
Killer:
Noed, BBQ, Corrupt intervention, Safe the best for last, Devour hope, Ruin, Nurses calling, Thanatophobia, monitor and abuse, Pop goes the weasel, Rancor, Infectous fright, and of course the best perk of them all: monstrous shrine ;)
I know not all of this perks are meta, but I see all of them quite often and its my thread ;)
So these perks are banned. What would you run?
So I actually like the idea of this thread but I have to ask how did NOEd, dyning light, sloppy and whispers not make your list of meta killer perks? I could almost see why dyning light, but the others... Just curious.
Killer:
- Pig: Spies, Brutal, Blood Warden/Cruel Limits, Trail of Torment
- Huntress: Bitter Murmer, Spies, Shadowborn, Iron Maiden
- Triangle Head: I already play him perkless
- Spirit: I already play her perkless
Survivor:
- Autodidact, Resilience, Leader and Prove Thyself
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@BaroneMaximus said:
Why is this even a thing? endgame collpase has been created to avoid Hostage-games to be never ending, if endgame collpase doesn't start with the last gen done then doors should regress periodically if not kept opened so, in other words, one surv should stay to the door or the door would be back to 0 in moments
I am confused, if you want to trigger end game collapse then open a door...
Unless you are just wording this as a "hold the game hostage" thread but really mean I want more end game pressure... But that is a whole other type of thread. Yes end game collapse is supposed to make sure no one (survivor or killer) can hold the game hostage, its why both sides can trigger it.
Now as for the doors, I actually like the idea of a regression, I have always suggested that it regress 1 second for every second it's not being worked on after 5 seconds of inactivity. You could even make wake up cooler, and someone who works on a door with this perk negates the regression effect. It would make wake up way more popular.
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1) There are so many perks. Make it so there is only 1 tier for each perk. This will keep new players around. Pretty simple logic. Dead by Daylight is an amazingly fun game. But not many new players want to spend 1500 hours just to be competitive. There will still be a massive skill gap based on time played, but the current perk situation and grind are definitely deterrents that prevent casual players from sticking around. Especially for poor killer mains.
Yeah many people ask for this. It's even kinda pointless because some perks the difference is so small its pointless. Taking enduring for example, it takes the stun from 2s to 1.2/1.1/1 seconds... the difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3 is literally 0.2 seconds...
2) Why is ebony mori even a thing? I do not mind the concept of getting tunneled once and going to the next game. But being able to do that to 4 survivors just seems ridiculous. I would even be more receptive of an ebony mori having the ability to kill 2 survivors. I just feel that with the ability to kill all four, you have a game of hiding that is a waste of everyone's time.
I think the common suggestion here is to make it death hook... this way tunneling isn't really an issue either way.
3) Huntress Iri heads switched to a reduced hatchet item that upon hitting a survivor, either fully restores or restores the one hatched used. This would at least offer a skill aspect to a pretty strong killer. The trade off for one shot is the renewal of a hatchet, which I think would be more beneficial and much less toxic/unfun.
I've personally preferred the Deathslinger approach. She keeps her five hatchets but the exposed effect only happens on people she hits who are more than 20m away (I personally would prefer 24m to keep it inline with the achievement). But I do admit I do like the idea of getting hatchets when hitting people.
5) Pyramid heads ability to cage you should allow for adrenaline, borrowed time and DS. He as a killer can already mori and avoid decisive strike with his powers. The cage is such an easy mechanic to tunnel off of, so I believe the cage should apply hook statuses, since it does count towards your hook total and eventual death.
They can't give survivors their perks without also giving killers there. however adrenaline should be an exception, because it specifically states if you are disabled, not hooked.
Adrenaline is on hold if you are disabled when it triggers and will activate upon being freed.
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People are going to hate this... I find like its pretty hard for a survivor to be toxic. Really only find one thing toxic and that is forcing a BT hit (not taking one, putting me in a position where I have to hit you to chase the other person). But honestly want can a survivor do, crouch, point and wave... Oh the toxic of moving up and down... Oh the toxic of pointing at me.... Oh the toxic of telling me to come here... OH wait not of that actually does anything to effect the outcome of the game...
However killers can be toxic, coming into a game with 4 slow downs because they are playing at a rank they shouldn't be at and need to be boosted by multiple perks. Running Pop alone I find toxic, no perk should add the equivalent of 2 gens to the game. Basically if you tunnel, camp, run multiple slow downs, or run pop, I consider the killer toxic.
So that's 1 thing to a killers 4 things... So in my mind, I think a lot of killers play more toxic than survivors simply because in my mind, killers can do more things to effect the outcome of the game then a survivor can.
EDIT: Totally forgot out post game chat, yeah, I find survivors are way more toxic there. thanks @Respectfulnancymain
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The problem with this is, the survivors that just want to be dicks and are good, are just going to hope into casual play and increase the chances that they are going to be paired with someone outside their skill level
Yes the rank system is broken, the devs have admitted this and plan on using a new match making system sometime this year I believe.
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1387270#Comment_1387270
Lol people play games for fun is the single most devolved argument here. Like i know i was bad stating the goal is always to win but wowza.
Never ever once asked to 4k every game.
I did ask for win conditions for each team that was reasonable. In no other online only game on the planet is a draw every match fair and Ballence.
But even if it was, a "draw" for killers is still 2 people winning... if your letting the other team win why cant I?
And im sure your draw conditions apply... to like... rank 20-15
I can win in rainbow 6, showdown, preditor, white noise, FD13 but not here ?
"Play for fun" this isn't a casual game? It's multi-player ranked matchmaking with scores screens, leaderboards and win Loss entity. Noone is stopping you from playing for fun... but like your team will get pissed if you screw around instead of contributing... its life or death setting ???
I don't need to win every match.
Please
please
please don't mistake me.
But after 1000 posts in a forum 2hours of watching streamers and YouTube videos every week, monthly training sessions with my party, 2200 hours in game and almost every character with unlocked perks.
I think asking for a clear reasonable win condition with in game messaging isn't to much to ask for.
If you tell me 2k is the best I should do against people of equal rank then the game should reflect that.
Please dont mistake me for entitled to a 4k. And I know my gamer competive feelings aren't universal.
My sentiment is this
But if I spend every second of this game using perks to the fullest. If I cut every corner in each chase, and hook and never waste a second needlessly searching just pressure pressure sweat time every loop and memorize every data of math in this game... I'm gonna be honest whatever the outcome 1k 2k 4k
id like the game at the very least to tell me GG.
But the dark one, score, emblems, pips they dont. : /
Yes I also agree that they don't have a win condition. That is something the devs need to implement. Technically even the 2k 2 escape is just something they said on stream, its not something the game supports, because if you get a 2k the game says Entity Displeased. I very much also agree that they need to better clarify this, I honestly think it will help narrow down this 4k or No k mentality this game has.
And im sure your draw conditions apply... to like... rank 20-15
not really sure what your talking about here. As I don't want to assume your just saying I am rank 20-15, then you would be wrong, but I need more clarification first.
"Play for fun" this isn't a casual game?
Then that is how you play it, the argument that since it has ranks its competitive game falls short because it literally offers no other way to play. The rank system isn't meant to say how good you are, its meant to match you with people of a similar skill level. Which to be fair is crap and even they admit that and are working on a new system for that. Could you imagine if their official policy was, "Hey you with 2 hours play against this dude with 2k hours". Yes I am aware this happens, but that is the point of their broken rank system, its meant to prevent this it just doesn't.
If you tell me 2k is the best I should do against people of equal rank then the game should reflect that.
Once again, you keep mixing up "skill" and "rank" they are far from the same thing. Ranking up in this came is merely how much you play it not how good you are. This is something the devs have already mentioned. There rank system is broken and doesn't properly match you against people of similar skill level, it attempts to match you against people of similar rank. Assuming you have played this game, then you should know the rank system is a poor way to measure skill.
As for my statement of they expect each game to end in a 2k instead of a 4k? How would you like them to design the game? If the design the game in a way that the killer is supposed to 4 every game, then survivors are more than likely going to get steam rolled, if they design the game so that survivors escape every game than killers are going to get stream rolled.
The best way for them to design the game is for a 2k and 2 escape. That means when you play with someone at your skill level you have a 50% chance to win and a 25% chance to lose/win. If you play exceptional and do very well than you should get more than 2 kills, if you play poorly than you should get less than 2 kills. If you are evenly skilled the match ends in a draw.
I can win in rainbow 6, showdown, preditor, white noise, FD13 but not here ?
Yes because all of those games have clear win conditions (honestly dude predator? That game might be worst than F13). I agree with you DBD needs a better clarification of a win condition. Instead of just letting the players define it themselves. The problem is there is already this huge problem in this community with people tryhard sweating people on both sides and BHVR isn't the best PR company in the world Pretty good job so far & End Game Perk That they are just saying that we get to define it.
Personally I have my own defined conditions.
For survivor: If two or more people escape. Doesn't have to be me, because were a team not individuals. Shoot it doesn't even have to be my GF and I, if the other two get out, we count it as a win. There are also times in the game that if a killer is protecting a specific gen or totem then we count it as a win if we get that gen/totem even if all four people die.
For killer: As long as I had a good chase I mark the game as a positive, but I personally see a 2k or more as a win. However looking at my last 20 games I average 2-3 killers with killers I am okay with and 3-4 kills with a killer I am good at. Or about a 65% kill rate overall. If I only count the killers I am good with my kill rate would be 82%. This is without slowdown perks (excluding corrupt/surge (or random games when people request a build)) at red ranks (because honestly rank is not equal to skill).
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TL;DR Yeah the devs should change their messaging but once again Pretty good job so far & End Game Perk PR/wording isn't quite their best category.
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1387017#Comment_1387017
I mean people play games to win ?
I mean sure you have ur meme screw around teams for sure but generally people have fun winning, improving, being rewarded accordingly.
I mean people play games for fun?
There are 4 other people in that game with you. If the game was designed around the killer getting a 4k every game then those four other people would basically be playing to lose every game. That's why the game devs have said the aim for a 2k and 2 escape each match. It ensures that one side isn't always dominating the other side so both sides can have fun.
If your idea of fun every game is a 4k that is your call, but I don't think thats the devs goal for an average game. It's abundantly clear that we're not changing sides on this, so its really up to you to reply again and we can just keep repeating the same arguments, otherwise I suspect this is a good point for our discussion to end.
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My rules for killer is as follows:
- Avoid camping/tunneling
- No slow down perks (excluding surge/corrupt)
- Usually no addons (some killers have exceptions to this)
- Avoid perks that add status effects to survivors
- Once all the gens are done none of these rules apply, so get out or get dead.
The biggest exception to this is list forcing me to hit you because you have BT. To be clear this isn't taking a hit, I mean blocking a doorway or cornering me in a hallway to prevent me from chasing someone else who I am clearly going after. If you do this, I will gladly hit you, eat your DS and then tunnel you off a hook for the easy kill.
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1386964#Comment_1386964
No like I get that but like
How unsatisfying is it to draw ?
While every single time a survivor escapes they win ?
2k to 2e
5 players. Two lost, two win, one draws
Why do killers have to be always unsatisfied?
I want some dam good incentives If im going to be forced to DM. If im just the host for a party and im forced to entertain everyone I demand alot more control over the game.
But your looking at the survivors as individuals not a team. the game is 4v1 not 1v1v1v1v1. Yes the teams are not fair because its 4 against 1, but it is still two teams.
I personally define a draw as a win, its not loss to me. You seem to define it as a loss. That is just our perceptive on the game. I never feel unsatisfied on a 2k. Depending on the game, I can find a 2k way more satisfying than a 4k, because it more than likely means I had some fun chases (don't get me wrong there can be games where people just camp and run from pallet to pallet but those are the exception). Where often times a 4k doesn't feel earned unless its to the end of the game. I find games where I 4k at 3 gens boring.
Really this just boils down to how you look at a draw, because its honestly not a win or a loss. I personally see a draw as a positive, it sounds like you don't. The real question than comes to who's views do the devs want to support. Mine or yours?
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1386791#Comment_1386791
Well my points and leaderboard put me on the bottom anyway.
Being alone on a team I should score better then everyone if I beat everyone right ?
If I've beaten 3 players my score should be better then 3 combined right ?
If the games ballenced for 2k why doesn't the game end when I get them ? Why keep playing and why can't i choose to end it myself by starting egc as killer at any time ?
Did you just skip over the draw part is a 2k and 2 Escape... I am saying "Entity Displeased" doesn't indicate a tie... it indicates a lose.
I am not saying the game should always end in 2k and 2 Escape, I am saying if you are equal in skill on both sides than the game should on average end in a draw. If you are winning more games than drawing than you are not playing people at the similar skill level or are being boosted by a perks.
Basically on average you should 2k and (black) pip, but that doesn't mean that you should still be able to 4k or even 0k. It just means those shouldn't be your average outcomes.
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@Sylorknag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1386766#Comment_1386766
I've had entity displeased in a 3k match more times than I can count.
I'm not sure if it was you or not, but there was a very detailed post about DS and the problems that it brings, making the killer tunnel even harder the bearer.
I don't have my problems with BT though.
Now, I completely despise DH, as it rewards bad plays. How many times have you won a mindgame, or did a better panting through a loop, just to have the survivor yolo out with the press of a button. It's big slap on the face of the killer who played well.
I don't think it was me, though I wish I would have seen. I am always interested in these types of discussions, at least the one's that stay civil.
My personal opinion of DS is basically this, as an anti-tunnel perk it is fine. As in if survivors only used it when they were legitimately being tunneled and not just when they happened to get caught and it was still up. I personally don't think my simple condition would make it perfect, but I think it would be a step in the right direction. I am always hesitant to say things like when fully healed because We'll Make It exists and can heal you in seconds. I would need a lot more time to figure out the perfect balance, but would be happy with small steps at least.
Dead hard is a tough one, because it does exactly what is is designed to and depending on your killer it can be made up for. Once someone uses it you should know that, but if you are not a killer who can make up the time lost its kinda divesting when used right. However I can't really suggest any fixes for it because I am not really sure how to fix dead hard.
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@emptyCups said:
I just want to please the entity
so he doesnt leave me like my father did.
But if I dont ultra 4k sweaty hes always displeased... always... please come home its been 21 years and I just want to meet you
This is the biggest change I want the devs to make cough @Peanits cough
I really wish the in game messaging didn't make you feel like you lost on a draw, It shouldn't make you feel like you won either. But nothing about seeing Entity Displeased on a 2k says draw, it says, you lost sucker, git gud. I think they either need to just remove the messaging or make it better reflect the 2 escape 2k = draw instead of lose.
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@Sylorknag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1386623#Comment_1386623
Thanks for taking the time
The reason I don't mention the aforementioned survivor nerfs I because they were massively OP perks, mechanics, that even after the nerfs, are still strong enough to be the meta for more than an year. And I believe some of the frustration from playing killer comes from facing these overused second chance perks all the time.
I mentioned in my post, "I joined a couple of months before plague".
I faced old D's, BT, MoM, which I noticed you didn't mentioned, which I reckon it was so massively OP they had to gut the perk to oblivion.
When talk about the changes, such as doc, and spirit (which I believe it was extremely well handed), im alluding to the fact that theses changes happened to solve the frustration on side of the community was having when facing these characters. Same goes for Ruin.
Which I'm asking, is why not also aknowledge the frustration aspects that comes when playing killer, and be more proactive at fixing these issues.
There are plenty of survivors on the forums as well, I just find it odd that it's pretty rare to see any post about quitting the game or taking a break.
Perhaps we, who play mostly killer, we are all snowflakes? Idk, I just feel there's too many "killer meltdown" post compared to zero from survivors.
Always, I am happy to have discussions with people because I am actually the odd killer that doesn't align my views in the same manner as many others.
That same argument could be made for those same killer changes. Those perks, mechanics and other nerfs were done to make the game overall more enjoyable for the killer side. Survivors we're complain about DS the same way killers running DS were... There were not, technically I have to give the survivor side kudos, because I don't believe there were nearly as many end of the world threads when DS and BT were nerfed to compared to when ruin was changed/nerfed (because I still consider it a good perk, just not strong). I would also like to argue that ruin is still relatively meta, at least from my experience over this past year. I still see it quite often, now not as much as before, but I would say its still at least kinda meta.
Now here is where things get tricky, because I wont argue that DS and BT are not meta, they totally are. But that isn't to entirely blame survivors for that. Starting off, survivor perks are much more situational than killer perks are. Lets look at the big killer perks I see every game
- Pop = You can use this almost every game unless you manage to not hook anyone
- BBQ = Every time you hook someone you see someone
- Sloppy = Every time you hit someone this perk has an effect
- Thanatophobia = as long as people are injured in the game this had an effect
- Dying Light = As long as you hook someone who wasn't the obsession it has an effect
- Nurses = This one can be useful every game, but can also kinda be situational as people may not heal within your terrior radius. However, I would like to say, I've see this in more games then I've seen someone use unbreakable successfully
- Bamboozle = Vault a window this had an effect
- Brutal Strength/Enduring = Both have an effect as long as survivors use pallets (And how many games have you had where the survivors never used a pallet?)
- Corrupt = Blocks 3 gens for 2 minutes every game, It has an effect
Now this isn't all of them, but its the most popular I can think off the top of my head. This same logic doesn't even apply to the meta perks on survivor side.
- Lets start with unbreakable, unlike many of the perks listed above this perk has the condition that a killer leaves you slugged. Now if you play as I do, I rarely slug. I think I've seen 2 maybe 5 people successfully use unbreakable against me all year long.
- Borrowed Time: This one is clearly less situational and I do see it more often in my games. However as I rarely chase the person just off hook, this isn't something that has ever really effected my playstyle. I usually only see it when a survivor forces me to have to hit them because they blocked my path. Other than that I usually chase someone else.
- DS: once again, this is still situational however because it requires me downing and hooking someone recently off hook. Now to be fair, given the 60 seconds I've had matches where I downed someone else and hooked them then happened to come back across the DS user with 1 second left, but honestly if the DS me at that point I just tunnel them out of the game. I get people are trying to change it from anti-tunnel to anti-momentum which technically fits better but being a long time player its an anti tunnel perk and if you use it on me and I wasn't tunneling you, I will tunnel you. The way I see it you just punished me for something I didn't do. Which is why I always suggest the following condition to DS: If you are not in the dyning state and the killer hooks another survivor DS deactivates ai
- Now, I really could copy and paste my post breaking down almost all of the survivor perks, but it'll be easier to just link https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1382846#Comment_1382846
- The post above explains alot of my issues with survivor perks. Unlike almost every single killer perk in the game, many survivor perks are two situational to become meta. For example, I absolutely love Autodidact and run it quite often, its not a meta perk, but it is really situational. This perk not only relies on me being the person to heal someone, but is handy capped if others are helping and relies on getting a skill check. For example, I've been running this perk all week so far. I rarely end the game with 5 stacks and more commonly end with 2-3 stacks.
I can see why a lot of killers get upset with perks like BT and DS depending on the survivors you are getting, but I don't see them as bad perks. They server their purpose (DS with an asterisks) very well. I just believe until BHVR stops making survivor perks so situational they they wont see use at least once per game, the survivor meta is never really going to change. Even going with their latest perks, I was actually kinda happy to see soul guard. I though that was going to be a new perk on my build all the time. I ran it for four days straight and used the "Endurance" effect once and never got to use the "pick self up" feature. Why would a survivor to choose to run a perk, that might only activate once every few days compared to a perk like dead hard or BT which has a chance of being useful once per match? Killer perks are almost always useful every single match?
-- Sorry that was a little long, but the reason you see those second chance perks so often is because they are useful almost every single match. ---
Sorry I must have forgotten or missed it, I kinda like to explain my thought process in detail as you can probably tell by now. DS is in both a better and worst position than it used to be in. I really hope one day they add the condition I mentioned above to turn the perk from an anti-momentum perk to a anti-tunneling perk, but only the devs can answer that.
-- Hopefully this helps you understand where I am coming from when we're talking about perks --
Now l would love to bring up your next statement
Which I'm asking, is why not also aknowledge the frustration aspects that comes when playing killer, and be more proactive at fixing these issues.
There are plenty of survivors on the forums as well, I just find it odd that it's pretty rare to see any post about quitting the game or taking a break.
Perhaps we, who play mostly killer, we are all snowflakes? Idk, I just feel there's too many "killer meltdown" post compared to zero from survivors.
I mean they have been, my point in bring up the nerfs to those perks was to show that they heard they were frustrations playing against those perks specifically and they adjusted it. Now don't get me wrong they aren't perfect solutions, but there fixes for killers weren't perfect for survivors either.
The question comes down to, how often do you see DS and BT and perks like that being used against you? Not sure if I stated this before, I mainly play killer unless I am playing with my GF. I see this perks in my end game screen all the time, I rarely every have issues with them during the matches though, because my playstyle doesn't really allow them to trigger. Don't get me wrong I see them and god can someone blocking me in a hall with BT and DS trigger me because its stopping me from chasing the person I want to. But that isn't the common game for me, its the exception. Yes I want conditions added to these perks to make them a little less of a careless perk and more and a perk that has tactic to it. I do think the devs are going to come back around to them, I just don't think it's as big of an issue as its made out to be.
As for the "killer meltdown" I actually never understood this, ask my GF, I can pretty much laugh away anything that happens when I play killer, but survivor I'll be screaming my head off. I expect the survivors to play smart and I expect killers to play using my similar ethics. I don't think these killers are snowflakes. I think a combination of stress and game feedback is tell them they are doing bad and making them feel bad.
Honestly one of the biggest changes I want the devs to make. I want them to remove "Entity Displeased" message on a 2k. I've seen many devs mention that the goal of the game is a 2k with 2 escape... but if that is true why does the game tell the killer they failed when that happens? I think the game has a PR issue instead of a balance issue (I mean it has a balance issue too, but I find the PR one greater at the moment).
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@Sylorknag said:
Day after day we see a couple of new thread talking about how someone just had it with the game/playing killer, and is either, taking a break, or sticking to survivor.
Now, don't get me wrong. I understand there are plenty of stressful things when it comes to playing survivor as well.
I personally despise moris and NOED, as they do not reward skillful play by the killer.
We know the game's balance is kind of whack, and that the devs have no idea how to fix SwF vs solos skill gap, tunnelling, camping, map (yes, there are still some maps that need more work),
Yet, the majority of posts concerning frustration, comes from killers. I myself have taken two breaks from the game in the spam of one and half year ish (I joined a couple of months before plague)
And I've seen plenty of people talking about doing the same, taking breaks from playing killer or altogether.
A despite a plethora of "killer meltdown" posts, they seem to focus "mostly", on fixing things that are frustrating for survivors, all the while, neglecting the other side of the community. Looking at the doc, ruin, nurse (this one in particular) legion.
I know the game is not dying, and I'm glad for it. I love the game, and I believe most of us who are pretty vocal around do. I just think that this kind of stressful experience, having people quit, take breaks can't be healthy for any game.
Thus my question, are the devs proud of having people quitting/taking breaks every single week? Wouldn't it be better to sit down with the "whole" community and listen closely to feedback (frustrating outdated mechanics, items, strategies, balance). You know, trying to improve the lasting experience, not only for the average player like me, but also for the k plus hour vets, and specially, the new players?
TLDR: devs need to sit down with the community, and figure it out a way improve the experience for both parties, mostly killers, as they seem to be the ones quitting the game more frequently due to frustration.
So I wanted to reply because this actually sounds like it could be an interesting discussion. Starting off, you are always going to see more complaints than positive feedback threads. Forums are usually are used to gain feedback and discussions on the game. So those who think the game is fine or really don't know how to structure their feedback aren't really going to post. Leaving you with four options with the majority being the first three.
- People who are frustrated with game mechanics because they either dislike, think they are unbalanced, or find them favoring one side over the other
- People who want to discuss things to improve the game but really aren't frustrated with it, these are the threads that remain peaceful
- People who want to talk about the game they love like the many threads such as "What's your favorite perk"
- Praise for the game and the devs.
That is why you see so many more of these threads than others. Now I would like to discuss your points though.
Starting off, you bring up the most recent nerfs, such as Doc, Ruin, Nurse and Legion. But you do leave out the fact that many survivor major perks have been nerfed since release. Survivors themselves don't ever really get direct changes because unlike killers, there powers is perks and map layouts.
Lets start with Doc, I am not sure why people find him weaker with these changes, the biggest change I see that they made was to make it so you had to use his ability for map awareness instead of just getting free map awareness. I personally find the reduction in using the shock power to hitting someone is a huge buff to him. Though personally I rarely play him so there isn't much feedback I could give her. I will say, I do not hate playing against him as much as I used to when I do play survivor. His sounds still slowly give me a headache, but I no longer feel punished simple because the killer is near me, I feel as though the killer earned his chase and map awareness.
Next Ruin, This one I kinda divided, because honestly if you read the threads here, it sounds like it was the worst thing in the world to happen to the killer community. But this actually shows that the devs don't take all of there feedback from this site and instead listen to the community everywhere. This was a changed asked everywhere but if you came to these forums you would believe that it would have been the end of the world.
Nurse, I actually agree with you kinda. I understand why the devs changed her how she changed her. Nurse is a devasting powerful killer (even with her recent changes). She always required a fairly high level a skill though, but even I who was just meh with her could do well. However I don't feel like her changes made her any worst of a killer (she isn't as nearly as strong), but she is easily the strongest killer in the game still. The problem is the skill level needed to player her is much higher than it was before her changes.
Legion, honestly, I am confused by this killer but DAMN do I love playing Susie. There are some weird choices in this killer that I honestly don't understand. Like you cant see gen aura's after hitting someone with frenzy but can before you hit someone (not sure if this is a bug/fixed/intended). Also the fact that you lose your power and suffer a 4 second stun because you missed a swing (even worst when "aim dressing") is the cause can be quite annoying. But honestly out of those the killer is in a fairly playable state. You would have to provide me with more details and I'll be happy to discuss them.
I guess my problem here is, these are all of the killer frustrations with the game. Is it safe to assume you play killer mostly? How long have you been playing the game. Lots of survivor things have been changed even some as recent as the massive loop reworks which was clearly killer favored. But before that, many of the meta perks killers complain about are gutted versions of their original selves. Take probably the most complained two
- Lets start with DS which is probably the closest you are going to get to ruin. Did you know when this perk was released the only requirement to triggering it was to be picked up by the killer. You didn't have to be hooked first you just had to be picked up. This perk went through multiple iterations and changes (5 to be exact) to be where it is now. I will personally admit I am a little sad its changing from a anti-tunneling perk to an anti-momentum perk and I do hope the devs come back around to this one day. However my playstyle as killer rarely lets DS be an issue for me, so I am not entirely worried about it. Personally I think this perk should have the following condition If you are not in the dyning state and the killer hooks another survivor DS deactivates
- Next BT, this perk not only grated the person being saved, but the person doing the saving with essentially the BT Status. Yeah, could you imagine being killer and both the person who was rescues and the one doing the rescuing got the BT effect today? Killers would be losing their minds. I still think BT is a very strong perk, but once again, the way I play killer means I don't really see it as an issue. I do think BT should have a cool down of 5 seconds. So one person with BT can rush and get multiple people off hooks granting them all BT.
- Exhaustion, I am going to bring this mechanic up as a whole, as it effects all Exhaustion perks. Did you know your exhaustion timer ran down even if you were in chase or running. Like literally a person could use Dead hard twice on you in the same chase. This was a massive change for survivor exhaustion perks.
- Now lets talk about items. Survivors items have slowly been changed to be more efficient but for a much shorter time period. I personally rarely every used or use items as survivor, so not really sure what this effected other than a brown medkit only heals you once now.
- And one of the most recent survivor nerfs was to map loops and sizes with a promise from the devs to take this into consideration more when making and designing new maps.
Now I specifically want to talk about your last statement
TLDR: devs need to sit down with the community, and figure it out a way improve the experience for both parties, mostly killers, as they seem to be the ones quitting the game more frequently due to frustration.
I have introduced so many of my friends to this game. I would say about 90% of them didn't stick with the game. To be honest none of my close friends even play this game anymore. Only a few I ever introduced stuck with it. Most of them found the survivor side more fun because they got to play together and really didn't just enjoy playing killer (I never understood why, I find killer to be by far less stressful and more enjoyable all around, but to each their own). Do you want to know why they all quite? They all quite because they didn't like how killers played the game. These were not Swat SWF friends, most of them were 5-8 beers in before the even started playing. But almost every match someone would be camped on hook, or tunneled off of it, or they would be 1 hook mori'ed. Essentially they were neve given the time to learn the game and hated it. Almost none of them play at this point.
I think the difference here is that killers are more likely to come to the forums and complain about these issues as none of my friends came here to complain about these tactics, they just uninstalled the game and moved on. Now don't get me wrong, I bet there are a lot of killers that did the same. The problem is I can only speak from my personal experience's and that tells me. Those who don't like killer and are frustrated with the game, generally just quit and move on. Killers tend to play the game differently and keep playing.
TLDR; I think you see more negative threads than positive ones because people feel more open to talk when they are frustrated with a game mechanic than those who just wish it would change but can put up with it. Also there have been numerous survivor related nerfs that for some reason get looked over as QoL changes, when for some reason every killer nerf is considered over reaching.
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Rank really means nothing. A 4 Man SWF is harder than four solo's but I rarely run into the legendary "swat" SWF so many people complain about still. I actually prefer SWF over Solo because it's at least a little challenging, though I think I prefer 2 2Man SWF.
Basically most 4 man Solo's are a 4-5, 2 Solos and 1 SWF is a 3-4, 2 SWF's of 2 is a 3, Everything else is between a 1-5 depending on the groups team work.
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This sounds dumb, but the solution to seeing less BT/DS/Unbreakable would be for killers to change there playstyles as these perks are meta for that reason.
I personally don't ever really care about them as killer, because I rarely ever go after the person off hook, So DS and BT are basically wasted perks against me. I also rarely slug for more than 30 seconds so Unbreakable doesn't really do anything.
Usually the most I see is BT and that is generally a survivor forcing me to hit them because they have it, which at point I will chase them and I might see DS. The only other time I see DS is if I happen to down someone quickly and then move back around to the unhooked person with active DS before the timer is off... Which I guess is why they push for DS to be an anti-momentum perk is so strong, as that isn't counter tunneling. But these are maybe once every 10 matches.
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1379950#Comment_1379950
I'm talking overall - killer is harder to play.
God forbid they have it easier than survivors for once.
But we're not talking about the game over all, we're talking about a cosmetic. One that even adds a second object of survivors to accomplish during the match. Making it even less likely they'll escape.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383153#Comment_1383153
Yeah and your comparison lacks any logic. Its supposed to wortk as a BPS and not like a cake. So why even comparing to something that doesnt has to do anything with it? That makes no sense, thats why you should do your math again.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383329#Comment_1383329
Youre truly unable to comprehend basic talks, right?
Because its a commonly known bug, if you choose to play it knowing this that is on you. Therefore it is currently more like a cake or pudding.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383153#Comment_1383153
What you said was "arguably works better than intended" which you'll note is specifically what I referenced in my post. Its not better than intended as its intended to stack yeilding a possible 520
Yes that was a bad choice of words. I simply meant in the bugged state where it only applies to one person, its bonus is still substantial. Knowing its bugged and only applies to one person, means it's more like a cake or pudding instead of a BPS. In that case it's a better option.
Either way, the bug is commonly known at this point and using it expecting it to stack is on you not the devs. Once the bug is fixed, it'll work as intended and give you that 104% bonus to everyone. But currently using it bugged and expecting compensation is just ridiculous.
If I know my car has a flat tire, I don't drive it around and expect it to work perfectly. I wait until I can get a new tire and then use it.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383080#Comment_1383080
Do your math again.
@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1383080#Comment_1383080
How can you argue that its better? As is the best you can do is 140, as intended the best you can do is 520.
As you both seemed to miss the fact that I compared it to a Cake/Pudding vs Bloody Party Streamers:
--
My math was based against a Cake/Pudding: 140% > 100%
Yes, 140% is less than 5 people using BPS 500% or as its intended to work 520%, However, I specifically compared it to the Cake and Pudding for that reason
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I don't run addons usually, but my favorite killer perk hands down is Spies, at least until they fix it. Which when they do, I hope they at least add more crows to maps to compensate, otherwise it'll just be another dead perk.
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I mean the offering works, arguably better than intended. It just works like a cake or pudding, granting the offer 140% instead of everyone 104%...
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So excluding the original killers released with the base game (Trapper, Wraith and Billy) They did do a decent job at trying to switch between male and female killers.
Meaning all DLC characters up to Ghostface toggled between with the exception of Freddy
Nurse than Myers
Hag than Doctor
Huntress than Billy
Freddy
Pig than Clown
Spirit than Legion (Technically legion is both male and female 2 of each Frank and Joey than Julie and Susie)
Plague than Ghostface
Demodoggy isn't technically a gendered creature, but everyone after than has been a man. I am going to assume the next killer will be a female.
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When playing killer, I don't find a lot of toxic survivors. Some dicks in end game chat. But I that might be because I find it a lot harder for survivors to be toxic... Like literally I find two things toxic, Forcing me to hit you with BT when I am clearly trying to avoid you so you pin me in a hallway where I have to hit you to pass. (To be clear, this is different than taking a hit. If I go to swing for the other person and you get in the way, that is good TM, the other is basically asking me to tunnel you). The other thing is, working on a gen in my face because your anti-momentum perk is still up. At least go work on a gen somewhere else.
When playing survivor, I do tend to find more killers being "toxic" but that might be because as I prefer the killer role, I hold the to my standards.
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@Alice_pbg said:
Because if the killers had to do something, like killing the obsession or 1 survivor that took the crown... it would turn into a very toxic gameplay experience. Because killer would wanna make sure they get the crown.
Making it so it's easy for killers to get the crown, means that they can chill and play normally. No need to bring ebony and use it asap, or hard camp that 1 guy.
Which I way I suggest it being based on BP, I even think the requirement of being 15k BP is pretty easy to obtain each match. I do not think the killer requirement should be kills. I think that is bad. I also understand why they added the "Escape" requirement to survivors, because otherwise games would be filled with one hook deaths.
Setting a minimum requirement for BP is what I think is probably the fairest balance they are ever going to get.
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The problem here is more survivor perks are situational than killer perks.
- S = Situational
- M = Meta
- U = Useless
- N/A = No personal experience to base this off.
- C = Can be useful
- K = Kinda Meta Anyways
Below is a list of all survivor perks with my ratings using the legend above (I couldn't figure out how to get this into a spoiler sorry)
- Ace in the Hole = (S) Only useful if you plan on searching chests (Most survivors I know don't really rely on items)
- Adrenaline = (S/K) Only useful if you make it to end game
- Aftercare = (C) Sorta useful, but is condition of being lost when hook make bond a better choice in general
- Alert = (C) Sorta useful if you really need to know where the killer is, but perks like OoO are better suited for this
- Any Means Necessary = (S) Basically requires you having it available (has a long cooldown) and not being in chase and the killer not breaking the pallet
- Autodidact = (S) You are relying on getting skill checks to build stacks and that you are the one healing people. Some games you get 5 stacks early on thanks to stuff like thana and Sloppy, but many games you can end with 2-3 stacks making it actually more hurtful to run than useful
- Babysitter = (N/A) The perk just sounds stupid to run. If the killer runs back to hook its a good chance he saw you both anyhow, if they don't you just heal under hook... Not sure what this perk is meant to do, but I would classify it as useless.
- Balanced Landing = (K) Use to be meta, with the nerf its more situational but still a good perk.
- Better Together = (C/U) This perk is tough, its kinda okay if you are solo, but in general there are much better perks to run compared to this one.
- Blood Pact = (N/A) I would place this somewhere with Aftercare, the haste effect might be nice if you combined this perk with something like We're Gonna Make It. But if the killer isn't running back to hooks, I would still suggest bond as this effect would be kinda useless otherwise.
- Boil Over = (S) Basically hooks spawn way to close for this perk to be extremely useful. I think in all my time playing killer two people have used this perk to wiggle free
- Bond = (K) Just all around great map awareness for survivors.
- Borrowed Time = (M) This perk will see use each game.
- Botany Knowledge = (C/K) This is actually a great perk, The problem is that it is simply outclassed by other perks that though its run, its not run as often. Perks like We're gonna make it, see's more use.
- Breakdown = (U/S) Lots of hooks and it only takes 2 minutes for this specific one to work, it requires a SWF Sabo team to be useful.
- Breakout = (S) Requires you being close enough at pick up and their being no hooks with range. I've seen this perk work more times than Boil Over, but honestly haven't seen it in a while. It really doesn't do enough to make it a Meta style perk.
- Buckle Up = (U/S) Honestly aren't all of Ash's Perks? This perk requires the killer to slug.
- Calm Spirit = (C/U/S) Many killers ignore the crows in the first place relying on other methods of tracking. However its great against Doc. If this effect applied to more killers such as Plague it might see more use, but being mostly useful against one killer makes it situational.
- Camaraderie = (S) This is really only useful in clutch plays for the BT save at the end of the game. Other than that, BT is just a better perk to run in general.
- Dance With Me = (C/S) I feel like this perk requires Lithe to be useful. Without some distraction or speed boost, the killer can still easily track you. This changes based on the loops you have available to you after your window vault.
- Dark Sense = (C/U) Basically unless you have a need to see the killers aura, the heart beat is a perfect method already.
- Dead Hard = (M) Its a super strong perk useful in every match against every killer
- Decisive Strike = (M) Its a super strong perk useful in every match against every killer
- Deja Vu = (U) Literally walk around the map and you get the same information this perk gives you.
- Deliverance = (S) Most killers just tunnel you if you do this, as most survivors like to do this before the killer can even get 30 feet away. Its also situational because it requires you saving someone before being hooked.
- Detective's Hunch = (U) It's a perk that can be outclassed by brining a map
- Distortion = (S) Its a perk that can be done by getting into a locker. It's limited uses also makes it fairly useless in the late game where it would actually be needed. It is also depending on the killers perks. Also if the killer has not aura perks, its useless.
- Pebble (or Diversion if you have no class) = (C) This perk can actually be useful, I would say the only reason its not Meta is simple because its not strong against all killers. Stealth based killers basically make it extremely hard to build a stack. Then you have to hope you use it at the right time. This perk can be useful, but requires a higher skill level to do so.
- Empathy = (K) Its a super strong perk useful in every match against every killer
- Fixated = (U) Lets be honest seeing scratch makes was cool for a game or two. The speed boost only applying while un-injured just makes Urban the better choice here every time.
- Flip-Flop = (S/U) Hey another ash perk that basically does nothing. Unless you combined this with Boil Over and some good team work along with the killer slugging you this perk never see's use.
- For the People = (C) To be fair, this perk is really strong and great in a clutch. I've see it used against me quite a few times. I think its downside often outweighs what it brings to the table so many don't run it.
- Head On = (K) It's a strong perk that a well timed Solo or SWF player can use almost every match.
- Hope = (S/C) This is a good perk, but Adrenaline giving a free health state just outweighs it
- Inner Strength = (C/S) This perk requires that you find and cleanse totems. Its a very strong perk, but can be completely useful in games where you are unable to find a uncleansed totem
- Iron Will = (M) Its a super strong perk useful in every match against every killer
- Kindred = (M) Its a super strong perk useful in every match against every killer (excluding Triangle Head's Cages)
- Leader = (C) This is actually a good perk, it relies on co-op actions or being near other survivors. I see this perk from time to time, but not often. I suspect its benefits are just not enough to replace a meta perk.
- Left Behind = (S) Have to be the last person a alive and hopefully the killer doesn't already know where hatch is.
- Lightweight = (U) I get fading scratch marks is a good thing, but if you have the skill to run the killer this isn't really all that useful.
- Lithe = (K/S) The only reason I added situational to this is because of tile generation. This perk relies on tile generation to favor ones with windows to be useful. I do want to clarify that this perk is more useful than situational
- Lucky Break = (U) Honestly I don't ever remember hearing a survivor complain about blood trails to the point they wanted them hidden. That with the fact this perk is based of 3 minutes of being injured (Does this perk still count time if you are in the dying state?).
- Mettle of Man = (S) The conditions for getting stacks is to high to make it useful every match
- No Mither = (S/U) Would be great if people knew not to slug you.
- No One Left Behind = (S/U) It's conditions are two specific to be useful every match, along with the fact We're Gonna Live Forever does BP bonus better this perk is both situational and useless
- Object of Obsession = (K) This perk requires you to be good at running the killer, but has a good trade off of the killers location that makes it s a strong perk, even more so when combined with SWF.
- Off the Record = (NA/S/U) 1 requires the perk to have an aura reading ability and two Iron Will already does this for the entire game, not a limited time.
- Open Handed = (C) This perk can be useful when combined in SWF with larger aura reading abilities but in general is not every strong or useful in most matches
- Pharmacy = (S) This is really only useful if you are wanting to find medkits. It also requires that you open chest and not anyone else.
- Plunderer's Instinct = (S) It requires that you open chest not anyone else.
- Poised = I actually don't know how to rate this perk. I can see where it could be extremely useful, but I just don't think its strong enough to out class any of the (Kinda) Meta perks out there. I want to rate it as "Can be Useful" but I feel like it is stronger than that.
- Premonition = (C) If you are playing against stealth killers, this in combination with spine chill are extremely strong. This perk alone is still good, but given the heart beat system we have its not entirely useful or strong enough to be meta or kinda meta.
- Prove Thyself = (K) This perk is really strong, though can be situational depending on how you play. If you are someone who just hopes on a gen and doesn't look for co-op gens than this perk is also situational.
- Quick & Quite = (C/K) I think the thing that holds this perk back is the users inability to trigger it. Often times you accidently trigger it via the wrong thing and kinda waste it.
- Red Herring = I legit have no idea how to rank this perk, pretty sure its a meme perk and I don't have a ranking system for that.
- Repressed Alliance = (C) The time requirement to earn this perk plus it being a shorter time than Pop, means it can be useful when played right. However it takes 80% of a gen to earn the ability to use it once makes it rather a weak counter to Pop. Also if the killer doesn't have Pop this perk really has no purpose.
- Saboteur = (S) This perk requires you being near the downed person and going to the hook, to be honest though even when someone managed to do this correctly, I've still be able to hook people.
- Second Wind = (S) At most can be used twice per game. However I don't think its strong enough or useful enough that it will get run a lot. Most cases its just better to let someone heal you at the hook or at a safe location away from hook.
- Self-Care = (M) Strong perk, will see use every game.
- Slippery Meat = (S/U) First a huge part of this perk relies on your killer being trapper, as for the escape, who tries that honestly? Totally forgot this was even a perk to be honest.
- Small Game = (S) This perk relies on the killer either having traps or hex's. If the killer has neither of those things this perk is useless. (Combined with Inner Strength this perk adds the "Can be useful" but is still situational because it requires others not cleansing totems).
- Sole Survivor = (S) Relies on killer having aura reading perks. Assuming they have BBQ, you could also just hope in a locker.
- Solidarity = (C) This perk can be useful, though I do think it has a bug, as when I combined it with autodidact it would always be at half health and would sometimes be at 0. Not sure if this is a bug or intended effect. I actually enjoy this perk, but its just not a very strong perk or not strong enough to outclass other healing related perks.
- Soul Guard = (S) Requires the killer to slug.
- Spine Chill = (M) This perk is super strong and will see use every match
- Sprint Burst = (M) This perk is super strong and will see use every match
- Stack Out = (C/S) This perk can be useful, but once you get better at the games, its pretty easy to hit great skill checks (even more so that my HUD is stupid large compared to before).
- Streetwise = (U) With the recent update to items you would have thought this perk would become stronger, but I actually see it less now.
- This is not happening = (C/S) This perk can be useful, but once you get better at the games, its pretty easy to hit great skill checks (even more so that my HUD is stupid large compared to before).
- Technician = (S) This perk is great for starters, pretty much useless once you learn to hit skill checks. Against perks like overcharge this perk might grow in strength, but few run that perk to start off with.
- Tenacity = (S) This perk requires the killer to slug. It might be useful with SWF where you could quickly get to a pallet or flashlight save distance, but both of those conditions are random depending on where you get downed and if someone is near you.
- Up the Ante = (NA/U) I literally have no idea what Luck does in this game.
- Unbreakable = (M/S) I believe this is the only situational perk that is also Meta. It's situational, because it relies on the killer slugging, but if they do slug you this is a crazy strong perk.
- Urban Evasion = (K) This perk lets you move fast and not leave scratch marks, making it a strong perk found in lots of builds. It's problem is it requires a specific playstyle to be useful that not everyone uses.
- Vigil = (S) Basically you have to lose the killer and than you get to shave 8 seconds of your exhaustion timer. This can happen, but rarely.
- Wake Up = (S) This is only useful against remember me, gates take roughly 16 seconds to open up. This perk downs that to 13.6 seconds... It's secondary effect is kinda useful assuming people didn't pay attention to exit gates locations, which actually happens a lot.
- We'll Make It = (S/C) This perk requires you to be the person saving someone off hook, if you manage to do this a lot this perk can be strong and useful in most games. It's condition for activation demotes it from Kinda Meta to Can be Useful.
- We're Gonna Live Forever = This perk is interesting, its like the crap version of BBQ for survivors. This perk isn't run to help survivors in any way, its instead run for extra BP. The conditions for activating this perk can make some players actually throw games at times (at least from my personal experience). Not sure how to rate this perk I would say it is (S) because it relies on the survivor giving up a useful perk for BP.
- Windows of Opportunity = (S/C) This perk is great in a chase for new survivors who don't know tile layouts and generations, once you become familiar with the game, there are better perks to run.