mizark3
mizark3
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First BBQ/WGLF altered TOTAL BP gained, not category restricted ones. The problem also is they didn't universally also remove it from all perks like Beast of Prey, Hex Thrill of the Hunt, Distressing, or No One Left Behind. This seems like a stat/pick-rate nerf instead of one grounded in reason.
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To be fair it is a radius, so think of it more like a pizza measurement (even though they use diameter, but I digress). The current ~113 m^2 per hook is going to now be ~314 m^2 at 4 hooks. Now technically this is a buff in specific jungle gyms with a scourge hook as they typically are further than 6m from the hook to the gen in that gym, but you still have to notice the Surv's foot behind the gen in more cases than not, so that barely helps if at all.
I would think to make this viable they should either increase the duration to include while the Survivor is hooked, or alternatively apply to all hooks that Survs are further from the hooked Surv than the Killer while the Surv is on the Scourge (also other than on hooks with Survivors currently on them for both variants, to not promote camping/tunneling).
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The only buff I can think to make Smash Hit viable is giving Survs endurance while dropping pallets. If this endurance procs (not say BT/OTR existing Endurance) you get exhausted and the remaining injury speed boost, not the 4s stun speed boost. This would also help laggy matches where the Killer seems to always hit you through pallets, as at least you get endurance and can keep you looping. This would also help against instadown Killers hitting through pallets as well since you can benefit from endurance while healthy, unlike MoM.
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I would be on the extreme of saying it doesn't need any nerfs at all. It makes 2 Survivors take 46s on a gen for 92s+travel time for 2 gens, instead of each soloing a gen in 90s. Even then it saves 7s (53->46s) per gen fully duo'd. Arguably it would only be a problem for when 4 Survs spawn on a gen and the Killer goes the wrong direction (saving 13s at early game when it is most important). Making people less inefficient is hardly deserving of nerfs. Making people more efficient could be.
The BP is in capped categories, so it isn't like the old BBQ/WGLF nerfs, and they also are keeping Beast of Prey/No One Left Behind/Distressing/Hex:Thrill BP boosts, so the nerfs appear in general to be stats/pick-rate based instead of grounded in reason.
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@GensByDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470750#Comment_3470750
"Been playing since 2017"
'1 post'
'Name saying blight needs a rework'
Ok, sure buddy 🤣
Lurkers exist, as do people who never post until the straw breaks the camel's back. That is very fair and healthy suspicion though, as I would have expected a post far sooner. Nothing in this patch specifically makes Blight any worse than he has been for the longest time.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3470382#Comment_3470382
- even on those close range loops you can still just drop the pallet. And even in all those scenarios where you described how blight can hit you even if you run away, you can just outplay him?? Run around a bumby object and he cant hug tech to get you. Consistently break LOS after he tries a hug tech and he'll have to do more rushes. 360 him, abuse slow turn rate, there is so much you can do.
- Just because you dont commonly run into survivors who actually can counter a good blight doesnt mean the counters arent there. Just because most players dont understand how do to it doesnt warrant nerfs. You admit that in about 10% of your matches survivors do understand and apply effective counterplay. the other 90% just dont know how, that doesnt mean its not there. I never claimed to face god loopers, but in at least 50% of my matches the survivors are at least decent. They dont know the crazy techs to counter me but they at least get the basics. And once again, if the counterplay is there and effective, the issue is the players and not the killer. Hes only a free 3-4k when the survivors are bad against him. In those games with the good survivors, I'd imagine it sits at about 2-3k.
- Yeah you can fall back on normal bump logic if they outplay the hug tech. At which point its equal footing to outplay each other. Its not go for hug tech -> miss --> bump something -> rush until you hit them. They can still dodge, reach another pallet, circle an object, vault, 360.
- I disagree that all S tiers should be nerfed. Blights probably their best designed killer, in all his buggy glory. And nurse (while much more controversial) is in a decent spot right now and is beatable if you know how to do it. Obviously both are soloQ crushers but thats more of an issue with soloQ since pretty much every killer can 4k 4 solos.
- If we were gonna nerf his basekit, 4.4 and having tokens recharge only after the pallet stun are the only acceptable nerfs imo. They would force you to use power more which is good, but it would lessen the opportunities you get to use it which is kinda bad. Most blights just use their power for every single hit anyways so this would just be a direct nerf to all blight players. I'd hate to see it happen but if we were forced to choose this would be it for me.
- I dont think having more tools in blights kit is bad. As long as they arent broken which in most peoples opinion hug tech is not. It increases the variety you have in chase on both sides making it more interesting. I see it like flashlights, more options that are impactful yet counterable.
First point Just run away/outplay him - Ok, I'll run away at 4.0 away from his 9.2! That is super easy and not map reliant at all! /s Also I listed a single loop type where the presence of bug tech makes counterplay impossible. That isn't listing all the possible loop permutations and scenarios where there is meaningful counterplay and others where the meaningful counterplay is how much longer it takes to get downed or getting downed further away from a hook to delay the hook to buy the team as much time as possible.
Second point coupled with third point Most people suck against him isn't a reason to nerf + bump logic outplay - I thought the design philosophy of not balancing around the extremes (both high and low) makes that the exact reason to nerf him. If most people die quickly, not only babies, then he is currently overpowering and deserving of nerfs. I think its ok to have a good power that shortens chase times, I just think all things combined make his shortened times too short. Heck, even if running away the Survivor tries to reach the pallet, Blight just breaks the pallet (while recharging power) and gets the hit if they don't drop it. That's at least my experience on both ends with Blight. His chase power is so oppressive and his mobility among the best in the game, he can win too easily from that pressure and no perks alone.
Fourth (mixed) point S tiers shouldn't be nerfed+Blight best designed Killer - That is just difference of opinion on both facets. I think no S/D tier killer should exist at either extreme of power, so I would want (significant) buffs to Myers/Trapper just as much as I want nerfs to Nurse/Blight (Or a killer ban as Survivor at a rate of 1 ban per 5 killers released). As far as best designed I feel Wesker is better in the average case (each realm of strength) with a couple of issues. I dislike Wesker's tunnel potential, and would make infection not progress off hook until a conspicuous action occurs, and also not have a Spray reveal Killer Instinct with that same conspicuous action clause. Also maybe his slowdown is a bit much, but well enough rounded overall. In addition his bug abuses are equally a problem as Blight's, such as grabbing people mid vault instead of slapping them, or the bug 'techs' discovered. Also maybe Demo could be in the best designed category if he could recycle portals (delete the oldest to set a new one like Hag traps or Singularity cameras) and didn't take so long to set them up (maybe even instantly plop them down, maybe at the cost of them always being visible instead of needing to use them first).
Fifth point basekit nerfs - 4.4 plus power pallet fatigue not recharging tokens seems enough to keep him more than powerful enough, and just enough to notch him down to a solid A tier instead of a broken S tier. I don't want to hard delete him from the game, just see him toned down a bit.
Final point - I think more tools in the kit is bad when they can be used in combination with one another in order to get the strengths of both and the weaknesses of neither. Again that's why I said it would be fine if you could bug tech only if you commit with a swing. I have the same problem with Oni sprinting and swinging backwards. The strength of sprinting with that speed with an instadown is coupled with the risk of only swinging in the frontal 180 degrees, and bug abusing to swing behind doesn't match the risk/reward ratio previously established. If it is possible to swing behind in sprint as Oni, then the backwards swings shouldn't get the instadown benefit since it took away too much of the momentum or some such explanation.
@Laurie268 said:
Blight should not be 4.6 speed imo, he should mostly get hits using his power. Also his tokens should take almost double the time to replenish + addon nerfs. It’s insane how many people give up at 5 gens in my matches when they see it’s a blight, these nerfs should make him less oppressive
I think 4s/token would be too far, but I would be willing to test 2.5s/charge in a PTB to see how it feels. I think 3s/charge would be the furthest you could nerf it while still keeping the Killer 'playable' and that's coming from someone who wants to see him nerfed. Def agree on add-on nerfs, as its crazy to see add-ons like increase Clown gas spread by 20%, or increase Killer Instinct for 1s on Pyramid Head trails, at the same rarity as Adrenaline Vial. Or Compound 33 even existing with both Hindered and Overcharged pallet breaks. Especially since he gets 1.5s break with basekit 2s/token recovery and Wesker's equivalent add-on is a 2s break with basekit ~6s token recovery (6s a token, but it takes .5 less seconds per infected Surv).
@ladybirds said:
I'm new to dbd. I would like to see blight nerfed. Some of us get these blights that know everything and it makes it not fun to see everyone downed before a save can happen. This hug tech sounds more like a bug or exploit. Gens can't get done if he can be there 2 seconds after he hooks someone unless in rare cases we have a really good person looping him and blight chooses to chase longer. I also seen something about a 1000 win streak with blight... that shouldn't be possible??? How do you think that's balanced and okay? So yeah blight should be nerfed or completely reworked.
To be fair to the 1k winstreak, the player explicitly mentioned they were abusing design flaws around tunneling off hook and early killing of Survivors to essentially get free wins. It was more a showcase of what the devs should fix around the core of the game, and this Killer specifically can abuse those flaws to the extreme. Other Killers can also abuse those same design flaws (to varying degrees of efficiency, such as Wesker being above average at it) as well.
Hug tech specifically is a bug/exploit that came from when the Blight released he used to have a crotch height camera. When they fixed the camera height there was a check for collision based on his waist and his camera, and making them separate disjointed the 2 collision checks and allows for bug tech (as I call it, to be more true to its nature). Sadly (and fortunately in some rare cases) (ab)using known bugs is not bannable, so you have to just get used to many of these in various Killer's repertoires.
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@JakeCannon said:
How many games must I lose as killer for my mmr to adjust?
I've only gotten a 3k once in the last 3 weeks, had a few 2ks but alot of 1k games in a row .
I started playing in 2022 but for some reason am paired against surv who started in 2017 and have played consistently since(no matter how many times I lose)
Allegedly once you reach 'top MMR' there is a soft derank prevention. Keep in mind also 'top MMR' is literally the top 25% of the game's population so if you are crawling up barely in the 25th percentile, you can go against enemies within the .0000001 percentile still. Basically the best thing to do is intentionally go for 8 hooks (2 hook each Survivor and not kill anyone). Even if you reach the point where you are 'winning' (reaching 8 hooks and slugging them over and over to cap your BP) most matches, you probably still have to do that for quite some time to get past the anti-derank mechanic. This will also train you in how to spread pressure and get multiple hooks so that in the future you can win real matches with camping or doing the toggle tunnel (Hooks on Survivors A,B,A,B,A,B,C,D) to crutch for wins. This also has the nice side effect of everyone in endgame chat liking you, giving either an ego boost or kind words in endgame chat instead of being berated.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468401#Comment_3468401
For one, he actually does need to swing for hug tech value at filler pallets. Which can easily be countered by just running the other way, dropping the pallet, or just leaving the loop. He is absolutely not a free win killer against decent survivors who understand how to counter him. Also, what do you mean 75% WR? What counts as a win? last we saw, his killrate was at 61%. Those statistic are from the gen kick meta as well, when stall was so overbearing 3 gens became unwinnable? I'd actually imagine its a dropped a small amount since the current meta is weaker. Hes only free win when you hard tunnel...... like every single decent killer in the game.
Bugtech- You don't need to swing to activate the bug, which is the only way it could be remotely close to fair. To oversimplify you aim down and hit M2. The most common circumstance where bug tech is practically uncounterable is the cars found commonly in Springwood. Technically any short rectangular(ish) object can fit the profile of this lose-lose bug tech abuse that is surprisingly common to find. In rectangles say the killer faceslides on the East side from the South side and the Surv is waiting at the North side. If the Surv runs East, the Blight gets a hit without adjusting. If the Surv tries to run North away from car the Blight can turn with sharp enough angle to hit them, or bounce off of something the the background. If the Surv tries to run West to rotate around the car, the Blight can swing early if the Surv reacts too slow or lag exists, or get an extra bounce on something on the West side for the hit on the rebound. Forcing a swing to activate the bug would fix 2 of the 3 lose-lose scenarios to be a gamble for the Blight instead of a free hit.
Not a free win killer against decent Survs- Maybe you live somewhere, where everyone is 4-man SWF sweat squads whilst you are somehow playing soloq Surv also, but I assure you those are few and far between in my matches. Nearly all of my soloq Surv teammates either hook kobe (at some point) or die instantly in chase against Blights, making the match garbage and not worth the time to play.
75% WR - I'm saying I win as Blight more than 75% of my matches. By win I mean minimum 3k/dc (such as 2k+dc+hatch). Even if we were to take that in the lower extreme of only 3k wins (in 3/4 matches), and losses are 0ks (in 1/4 matches), that comes out to an average of (9/16) 56.25% kill rate. That is well within the averages, but even then that doesn't take into account that I am likely better than the average Blight, and Baby Blights are dragging down the kill rates. Even then you support my claim by stating "He is absolutely not a free win killer against decent survivors who understand how to counter him." I certainly rarely run into those type of groups. Maybe 10% of matches at the highest (Probably in the 2-5% to be more accurate). So that easily would still fit into my claim of a greater than 75% win rate. Even then, would you actually claim you go against god loopers in more than 25% of matches?
'Freewin' - I think most people misunderstand what I consider to be a free win if they disagree. A different way to phrase it is you can autopilot the Killer and win (3k+ like defined above) more than you lose. In a balanced game/matchmaking one would expect to roughly win as much as losing when actively trying, not merely autopiloting. If you sweat you can probably get a decent amount above 50%, try normally for hovering around 50%, and autopilot to win less than 50%. If you can autopilot a mechanic (Killer choice in this example) to mostly victories, it's likely busted OP. As I see it, people claiming you need 'skill' to play Blight (or Nurse for that matter) is like saying if you know how to drive a stick-shift vehicle you should get to drive that same equivalent vehicle 50% faster than everyone else. Knowing how to drive stick-shift is too small of a requirement for that big of a reward.
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468401#Comment_3468401
Do you even know the counters to the Hug tech? Cause I assure you, it’s far from a “lose lose”. It’s really not hard to counter.
Blight’s recovery does start after fatigue.
There is no articulable reason for blight to be 4.4.
Blight’s bugs are not few and far between. I get hit with double fatigue and the shoelace bug every single game, and his collision issues affect every single game.
The issue with the counterability of bug tech is how you aren't forced to only utilize bug tech when playing, and it adds an extra tool in an already overloaded kit. Many uses of bug tech allow for falling back on normal bump logic, allowing for an enhanced double threat.
Blight's recovery doesn't start after pallet/wall break fatigue, which I specifically called out in my post ("...including after completing the break a pallet animation for Blight specifically."). I was saying both should work in the same general sense for all cases, not the pallet break escape clause Blight currently has. (Also I'm not sure, but I think the Iri add-on also recharges on pallet hit, not after the stun cooldown also.)
There are numerous reasons Blight (or other Killers for that matter) could or should be brought down to 4.4. Killers that have an easy time getting ranged or hyper-mobility power hits in the majority of cases should likely all be 4.4 (I don't count Pyramid Head or Nemmy Whip as properly ranged in this case, but Artist probably also deserves 4.4). Another reason could be S and D tier shouldn't exist in a tier list frame of mind, so all S tiers should be nerfed and all D tiers buffed. This is one way to nerf an S tier Killer without impacting his power usage, the point most people claim to have skill in.
Bugs few and far between - To be fair this is DBD, in every match there is likely 20 different bugs popping up at least once. What I am saying is the bugs that decide the game and make a clear win into a loss, or vice-versa, are ultra rare (at least in my games as Killer). Most bugs in my matches make the win be at 1 or 2 gens remaining instead of 2 or 3, or get a 3k instead of a 4k. Most instances of bugs don't change a win to a loss, merely a crushing victory to a normal win. Exceptions to every rule of course, but in general they don't really change the outcome, just the degree.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468082#Comment_3468082
It’s 100% your fault if you sit there and let a blight hug tech you. It’s not hard to predict, see, and counter.
It still makes the loop a lose-lose for Survivor as the Killer can just bounce off of the stuff in the background and continue the chase. If Blight was forced to swing to engage in bug tech then it would be less unfair.
Also both Blight and Nurse should both have their token recovery normalized to after fatigue is over, including after completing the break a pallet animation for Blight specifically.
The only way Blight's bugs in his favor would have a case for not being fixed is if he was made 110(4.4) basekit while keeping rushes at 230(9.2). The few and far between bugs against Blight don't even come close to preventing normal wins. This isn't some bottom of the barrel Killer scraping by for kills, its one of the few Killers I would argue desire the title of 'free-win killer' (or more accurately autopilot results in more than 75% win rate in normal matchmaking). If these were niche bugs in Doctor's favor I'd be less annoyed at their existence. Sadly only the the more powerful killers seem to get bugs in their favor (bugtech, Oni hitting behind himself, Wesker grabbing people at vaults instead of slapping them, Spirit's audio being counterplayable then bugged into not working, Plague PWYF not losing stacks on the infecting puke even though it still can damage, and likely more I can't think of off the top of my head).
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466542#Comment_3466542
It have "no issue" only if survivors aren't capable of proper looping, and game better not be balanced around those who don't know the basic mechanics.
If I've had that many matches as each of those Killers at least once (seeing an enemy MfT user), then the matchmaking is loose enough to have you win even with enemies bringing MfT. It would be a grievous error to only count Killer losses, as Killer victories (even if far more frequent) are still occurring even in the presence of MfT.
Alternatively I would agree with a hard deletion of MfT alongside the deletion of Blight, or maybe Plague if you ask me on an odd day. Basekit Blight provides far more value than all 4 Survivors bringing MfT. That is if we are taking the extreme idea that just because something has the potential to be overpowering (or more accurately for MfT, annoying) then we must remove it. (Plague just because I hate how the Killer hard deletes Altruism as a category for Survivors to interact with. If there was a basekit altruistic method of dealing with Plague like filling a vial from a fountain as a consumable item modified by heal speeds, I'd hate her less. Also I hate how she can injure Survivors without using PWYF stacks, but that is a niche abuse.)
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So far I've had no issues (or another Exhaustion perk would have served the Survs better) with MfT as Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Nurse, Myers, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Legion, Ghosty, Demo, Oni, Mister Yeehaw, PH, Blight, Nemmy, Artist, Onion Ring, Dredge, Weskin' Time, SM, or Singularity. Of the ones unlisted I haven't tried them (with an opposing MfT) or are in the difficulties category listed below.
Huntress is a mixed bag, as snipes are punished, but close multi-hits are further rewarded (they don't have any other Exhaustion perk to save them). Doctor using his power is legit unplayable, he slows himself down far far far too much to get value against MfT, and you just have to brainlessly hold-W instead. Doc can only use his power to force death corners (enter room with window and dropped pallet, shock so they can't vault either). Technically as Mister Yeehaw a No Mither mad chad pre-ran from a mile away, but then she wasn't doing gens, so it made her more scared and helped me more than hurt me, even if she didn't bring No Mither.
So yeah I figure only Doc mains have room to complain, but a simple fix would have his shock work like Wesker's lag grab at vaults, and teleport Survivors backwards. It wouldn't be fun or fair (just like Wesker when he gets those bugged/lag hits), but it would make the Killer functional in the modern landscape. To be fair I have a relatively small sample size with each of the Killers listed above, but in most cases a Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Dead Hard instead of MfT would have served them better in my matches as Killer. Technically yes, you can run DH + MfT, but that is similar to using Botany+Desperate Measures, and is better for meme builds than actual value.
The only MfT nerf I would agree with is removing the Endurance from this perk and putting it on something like Buckle Up or a new perk instead. The current state has it legit be 2 perks in 1, and it has no right to do so. At least other multi-purpose/value perks have more reasonable conditionals (eg. OTR on unhook).
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Sprint Burst has the least pre-reqs and work-arounds, although worse players may walk more as a result. Any of the injury perks are countered by exposed/instadowns. Only a couple are hard to not actively screw up on normal use for newer players (Sprint/OC/MfT). The main difference between Sprint Burst and Made for This is how you get value. From a raw numeric (hold-W) perspective it would take 50s in chase for MfT to breakeven, but that doesn't take into account mid loop distances that it changes, or Killer power interactions (does nothing against Blight, but destroys Doctor due to his massive basekit personal slowdown, or nothing against stealth Killers engaged in hit-and-run). The universality of Sprint Burst and ease of access all make me think it is certainly the best per from that list.
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2s Sabo (to fix it along with Killer's reduced hit timer from 6.7.0), maybe perk rank number of tokens with the current sabo CD per token. You can use this as 3 max sabos, or press the active button while sabo-ing to enhance a sabo to last 15s longer. That way you could perk sabo and augment this to 45s, or use all tokens to bump it to 60s. This could also be used on toolbox sabos, and enhance it up to a theoretical 90s sabo.
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I'd agree in saying greater than 95% of matches are easily winnable as Killer. Each time it requires retrospection and reflecting on what could have been done better. Solo Surv is a nightmare in comparison. I'd almost say I can only guarantee 20% of escapes as solo surv in comparison to Killer's 95%. I can't control the basement Feng when the Killer has Lethal. I can't stop the Mikaela from kobe attempting to go next on first hook. I can't stop the Dwight from doing gens at 0 hooks when everyone else is on hook or injured with hook states. Each of those I ran into on this day of matches alone, and not even across the week.
My loses as Killer on the other hand was 1 match as Doctor, because I tried learning shock ranges against Made For This. (Protip just don't, you slow down far too much. Bruteforce the pallet instead.) Also one of the Survivors was suspicious in that early and late shocks both didn't work against them, and could vault no matter what, but that could have just been their sketchy internet connection, the main reason I don't like playing Doc.
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Winning from my skill or contributions to the team. Losing while getting progress towards BP/Tome/Perk value from the perks I brought. Learning a new interaction such as a new Trapper spot, or the max/perfect distance to hit/dodge the Killer's specific power.
On the opposite end the not enjoyable stuff are losing because a Killer pick making the game/match goal unplayable (eg. Blight/Nurse/Spirit when want to play the game in soloq/not premade 4 on comms, Plague when going for heals). Also losing because the team screws you over for the killer specific mechanics (feeding Myers stalk, feeding Oni Blood, Plague infecting you or cleansing to give the killer power without a reason behind it such as go for camped rescue/trade, overcleanse, etc.) Killer specific nuisances such as people letting other survs go 2nd stage/die when you weren't even camping, and other greedy plays in the anti-altruistic realm. Basically anything I would hate to deal with as a soloq Surv.
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@DavidHypnos said:
So I was playing Trapper and was doing pretty well. Anyway… after all the gens were completed I was chasing a Meg and at some point she literally just disappeared. Like into thin air. Like Nightcrawler teleporting but without all the smoke. She was nowhere around me and there were no more scratch marks. I thought maybe it could’ve been my connection or something… I had a Hag match prior where I got disconnected right after hitting a survivor so I thought it’s possible? I got over to the gates and she was there with the other survivors and I got her and came so close to putting her on death hook but I thought… maybe she wasn’t cheating and it was just my game glitching or something… so I took her to the exit gates and let her go. But I wanna know if anyone else has seen this before? Is it hacking or potentially just a glitch or connection issue?
There are certain techniques and tactics I use to 'bait' cheaters, or people I suspect of cheating. You aren't going to 'win' a match against a cheater, so you have to change your win condition to catching them in the act. Usually they don't want to lose at all costs, and sometimes want more attention. Using those main goals against them, you can either hard ignore them and treat the game almost like a 3v1, or do the opposite and treat it as a 1v1. The second you get suspicious of someone drop everything and start recording. I don't care if it is on your phone, start going full detective mode and collect evidence. Force lose-lose scenarios, where they can only cheat to live, such as facecamping them on hook, then tunneling them after a hook trade if they get rescued. That is when, if they are cheating, they go full nuclear and either ramp up speed or start flying. Bam you got it on camera and you've 'won' the match.
If they only (maybe) cheat in the last few seconds before the end of the match, then you know the entire match was tainted and it wasn't an earned victory by the Survivors. You don't have to dwell on it and can move on to the next one, just make sure to keep note of the player's name (or Anon usage). If you run into them again, (or same Prestige same Anon character) start recording from the lobby, and only target them in the next match. They will either cheat to escape, or you will find out they weren't a cheater, and can take future matches against them with less suspicion and more learning from your mistakes.
That being said massive lag can appear like cheating more often than not, so try to keep note if someone has a red bar throughout the match or not. If they have a consistent red bar they likely are playing from the moon instead.
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@sickdeathfiend said:
Since nurse, blight etc won't ever be balanced to be playable against in soloq etc, can we please have an option for our character to instant kill themselves on hook or whatever and save some time? thanks.
Bonus points for a suicide hotkey so we don't have to be hooked to save from bleed out trolls. have a nice day ;)
While there should be a bleedout suicide option when 95'd on recovery, this would be more accurately dealt with by implementing Killer bans. A variety ban for whatever the last Killer you went against, and selected bans. A decent rate would be 1 per 5 killers released, and would allow people to play the game by such personal filters such as 'no ranged' (Huntress Slinger etc.), 'no stealth' (Ghosty Pig etc), or 'no sweat' (Blight Nurse Spirit).
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On US West I use the basic pride charm ever since they were introduced and people claimed they were being targeted for using them. The closest I've got to any recognition is a point/nod from either side. I wanted to get more chases and I got more people meming instead lol. That's just my experience though.
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@Robotfangirl67 said:
I really don’t understand the hate for Wesker at all. I understand that facing the same the killer can be boring. But I don’t try to complain every time I face a certain character I don’t like.
I swear I get so tired of this mentality. Just let people enjoy things. Don’t go bullying and go yippie your favorite is not available to play lol. How would you feel if your favorite was broken? I keep seeing this mentality on Twitter. I know I should just ignore them.
It’s just getting annoying and frustrating to seeing this type of behavior everywhere. If you don’t like Wesker that’s fine, just don’t mess with people.
Edit: Putting this here but I fully get why some people think Wesker all the time is boring. I understand variety is good to have sometimes. I probably should of looked at the situation differently.But I was just tried of the consent bad behavior towards others. Cause looking at it I should take the opportunity to level up my other favorite characters.
I think people don't hate going against Wesker, they hate going against the average type of person who plays Wesker. It isn't the mechanics they take issue with, but the playstyle and unenjoyable matches that are more frequently tied to that. If you play 100 matches and consistently get jerks only playing one character, you start to associate the jerk status to be equal to the character selection, be that Killer or Survivor (I hate Fengs and Mikaelas personally, when playing both sides). I would love personal bans because when I go with/against a jerk, I could just not play with them individually as long as they are on my list.
The other facet is definitely variety though. If one Killer is more than double the average rate (1/31 being selected more than 2/31) than there is certainly a problem. The problem could be the other Killers are too weak, or that one is too strong, or cool/uncool, or a plethora of reasons. A killer ban system for Survivors at a rate of 1 per 5 released would give people enough Killers they could avoid, while still having the rest of the game playable. At the very least there should be Killer repeat prevention just as there should be map repeat prevention.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Because it always gets a lot complaints.
First CoH and now Made for This.
And then people are asking why survivors are using same perks over and over again. Because you are not letting devs to make good survivors perks. Whenever they do, you are asking nerf immediately.
Nobody complains about Teamwork perks or 80% of survivor perks tho because they are just garbage.
I mean CoH was beyond busted, (why was it better than Self-Care when it works for everyone?!?) and now it is still strong, but not overpowering. I do agree that DS and DH shouldn't have been nerfed, or if anything DH should have been changed to special attack endurance instead. That being said Sprint Burst always was better than DH in the vast majority of matches, DH just hit harder psychologically.
As far as MFT, I have only run into 1 or 2 Survs running it. It kinda feels like the boogeyman that everyone says it exists under your bed, but when you check there is nothing there. Even then the few Survivors that did use it just seemed to misuse it and go down quicker due to greeding pallets. The only facet I agree about nerfing is it really is 2 perks in 1, and the healing endurance should be removed and put onto a new perk, or a weaker existing one.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455490#Comment_3455490
I generally agree, but CD part is just stupid - it means CD is too long to do anything or you are just dead if you find yourself in window-scarce map like Gideon. You will have literally nothing to loop around in 80% of map.
But otherwise full agree - once I see a survivor that heavy-predrops (and finds pallets easily - indicating windows of opportunity), I make a mental note about him. This survivor will most likely be the reason why I will win that killer game. Free deadzone/snowball for me. Just don't chase him for 5 gens until whole map is a deadzone (because by that time, survivors are out).
BTW this is not map issue, this is issue of both sides playing braindead - survivor running from pallet to pallet and killer running from dropped pallet to dropped pallet always kicking it and never looking at bigger picture
I think if the CD concept is applied like I said, only against the least hooked Surv while all are alive, it could be a temporary fix. Just like the Deja Vu buff to be permanent is a temp fix for 3 genning. It would be a core mechanic, and people don't always pay attention to their HUD, so I understand it could be oppressive in lower levels with newbies. Just because of that non-universality though I can completely understand not implementing it in any form.
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@GravelordNito99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453959#Comment_3453959
If the intent is for decay and lower mmr for new killers to be in place, as they have claimed, then the system is not working as intended by my experience, as I am pointing out.
The problem with decay is they have to keep some of the old number. Certain levels of knowledge can't be un-learned. I don't recall specifically what the minimum is (percentage of highest?, flat bars like 900/1200/1600?) but there are flaws with both processes indeed.
On the other side if a newer killer facecamps and hard tunnels every match and pumps their MMR into the stratosphere (most commonly seen by me in Bubbas), they will never learn basic tactics, and even when swapping killers they have a partial carried over MMR that makes the game impossible to play without those crutches.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455490#Comment_3455490
Pre-dropping goes hand-in-hand with the genrushing problem. Yeah, you can break the pallets they wasted, but in that time, you'll get no injury as others are speeding through gens, making the situation horrid when facing people that often bring strong toolboxes (which I see WAY too often already).
As someone said, breaking a bunch of the pallets increases the risk of snowballing (which you'd have to do at the end in order to get much pressure), and that isn't fun at all for survivor.
What genrushing problem? I haven't ran into a SWF using juicy toolboxes and BTL in more than 3 months. Otherwise it is a Killer pressure problem. I typically have no problems as Ghosty even on the horrific maps like Borgo/Garden. Maybe 1/10 games I lose, but it was because I screwed up somewhere. That means all my loses are my fault alone, and up to me to improve to prevent them in the future.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455477#Comment_3455477
Yeah... no.
1 person on hook / in chase leave 3 others to rush 3 gens in no time and it means you go into a losing state within 3 min.
Without gen regression as a pay off, none of what you mentioned makes sense.
The only reason 3 people are on gens and 1 person is on hook is because the Killer is facecamping. Otherwise the Killer would be smart enough to chase someone off of gens.
If it is still unclear then perhaps read it again, and I'll try to phrase it differently. Dwight is on hook and cannot progress gens. Killer brought Discordance because they are under the believe that PT is 'OP', so they bring its hard counter. Killer sees Meg attempting a rescue and a gen glow due to Jake and Claudette duoing it(2 gen Survs). Killer chases Meg in the direction of the gen, and forces them (Jake+Claud) off or get the down before then (0 gen Survs). Now Dwight is on hook, Meg is downed en route to hook, Claudette is running for Dwight's save, and Jake is still lingering near the gen trying to greed a couple extra seconds(0 or 1 gen Survs, depending on how greedy Jake is). Meg is now hooked, Dwight is unhooked and presumably being healed by Claudette, and Killer is in chase with Jake (0 gen Survs). Repeat until victory. There is only a small timeframe where people are able to be on gens unless the Killer has 60s chases per health state. If that is the case then I suggest they watch more youtube tutorials until it is 40s max. Even at 40s a health state Killer is winning that match with PR as the only gen regression in the majority of matches.
Old and New PR breakeven point is 6/7 hooks. Better for new PR at 6 and under, better for old PR at 7 and above. If a Killer is struggling with 6 hooks, and they don't decide to go for a kill on 7th hook, that is their failure and not the perk's. Once the game is a 3v1 it is a free win for the killer as long as there isn't 1 gen left at 80% or above, largely due to the above gen surv equation always being 1 lower.
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What exactly is everyone's definition of 'pre-dropping' pallets? I've rewatched Killer streamer VODs against me as Survivor, and they have said I 'pre-dropped' when I got the stun after I ran around a pallet 3 times while injured. I literally waited for the last possible moment to drop the pallet (and not go down), and people call that pre-dropping. I can't comprehend a pallet stun (not camping the pallet) in any reasonable world being pre-dropping, but that is the most common descriptor I've heard when watching those VODs.
What I understand 'pre-dropping' to be, is a pallet thrown before injury is even a threat. Personally I love those players, because they are my little deadzone makers. I chase them for 2-3 pallets, go back around and chase someone else into the deadzone the other player made. To be fair this is hardly effective on the newest maps, as you just need to bloodlust Borgo/Garden weaker pallets for the most effective hit as an M1 Killer, but that is a map problem, not a player problem.
As far as the pallet drop CD, I think it would be fine if only applied to the least hooked player(s) (including ties, only while everyone is alive). That way someone being tunneled can still spam pallets without a care, but also no one can burn all the pallets and make their team lose due to their pallet greed.
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@Strangeosyndro_27 said:
I think reduce gen regression but get rid of tokens personally. I'd be fine with pain res having less gen regression if tokens weren't a part of it tbh. Mine you I'm a rare Artist main so a little biased. I guess it's time to run jolt instead. RIP Pain Res. You served me well.
That is just saying 'revert the change'. It still is a solid perk, and better performs in the early game (1-6 hooks), at the cost of late game (7-12 hooks). Even then, the game is practically a free win once you get it to a 3v1, and by 7 hooks it is likely you can have someone dead if you need them to be in order to win. It also doesn't force you to use it, so if you get an early down you don't feel like you have to cross map to that distant white hook.
@Spectralfx said:
Pain: Resonance is now dead and six feet under.
was fun to pair with Deadman switch and the only thing that could make the later somewhat viable.
so effectively, they killed 2 perks with one nerf.
really is a massive feel bad when they hit CoB/Overcharge as well.
Like, how is killer supose to counter a Prove thyself/BNP composition?
SYKES , they can't.
PR is still plenty good on it's own, and even better paired with Floods (and Gift of Pain on some killers like Oni). Also Eruption's regression hasn't been touched, and Pop was rebuffed to 30% current, so running Pop+Eruption(+Nowhere to Hide if desired) is the free win build in the current patch. CoB/Overcharge was so busted a monkey with a spacebar could beat people by making them think DCing was a better option than playing out the torture simulator. It also had no pre-reqs or CD, making it truly unearned.
How does Killer win against PT+BNP? Pressure aka skill. A person on hook can't progress gens. A person going to rescue can't progress gens. A person in chase can't progress gens. If you hook Survivor A, while chasing the PT Survivors B+C, Survivor D has to go for the rescue. This cycle can then repeat with Survivor B or C on hook, the other going for the rescue after you chase them back into Survivors A+D PTing the gen they were hooked near. That basically makes PT a Killer perk instead of a Survivor perk. Pretty easy all in all, but it requires the forethought to recognize and intentionally provide pressure the Survivors have to respond to, instead of autopilot chase the first person seen into a pallet+window haven. PT helps the skilled Killer more than hinders them. Survivors soloing gens is what is more difficult to deal with due to not being able to take advantage of the double chases off of gens. Plus if PT is truly a problem perk for a player, they can bring the hard counter Discordance, and PT becomes an even greater Killer perk than before.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454328#Comment_3454328
Now tell me how a killer can abuse this mechanic, because I'm curious. Only swf will abuse of this mechanic, since they can transform it in a bk deliverance. So, with anti-camping mechanic, these tactics are negated:
- Defend a basement party: Basement party = 2 or more surv hooked in the basement. Why should I leave when I have two surv in the basement? With anti camping, you can't defend a basement party.
- Defend 2 near hook: same as basement party. Imagine this: I hook a survivor, one fails to save because played bad, I hook him near the first hooked survivor, both can escape freely if I patrol the areas of the 2 hooks. Why should I leave? I have two hooked survivor near each other.
- Defend a gen with high repair: I hook a survivor casually near a gen that is like 80%, let's take this. I will kick the gen and check if there are survivors, but I don't know if there are survivors near the hook, and obviously the bar of the anti camp will procede even if I'm patrolling the area for a good reason (in fact probably Nowhere to hide will become a must have if this mechanic comes live, since you will NEED to see if there are survivors near you)
Now, with this tactics nullified, there is also the opportunity for survivors to use this mechanic as a bk deliverance and to not waste time saving. As I said, since this mechanic work through floor, I can imagine Surv A hooked at ground floor, Surv B chase near the hook but on a different floor, and Surv C and D genrush, while Surv A can free himself because the killer is in the area of the hook, even if he is on a different floor and chasing another surv. Add reassurance to be sure that the hooked survivor won't reach second stage.
Now, I ask to all people on this forum, how can you think that an anti camping mechanic will be good for the game? Or better, how can you think that THIS anti camping mechanic will be good for the game? A mechanic that doesn't reward the killer for playing good, don't punish survivors for making error, and can be manipulated by swf to give free deliverance even if the killer is not camping, transforming the area of the hooked survivor in a super safe zone.
Killers can utilize stealth and undetectable perks to greater camp hooks, because people stop attempting normal rescues when they see a blatant facecamp. The most they give the Killer is a hook trade at 55-59s. This means people will either attempt rescues earlier, allowing the next chase to start all the sooner if you can't find anyone else, or capitalize on the proxy camp free-hit.
Basement: You can proxy camp it from a short distance on some maps, or a very far distance on maps like RPD where you can stick in the middle of the map. Both keep you roughly 16m away at the closest. Plenty of distance to still proxy camp.
Adjacent hooks: again you change the hook patrol route from a line to an arc. .---. patrol into :) patrol. Still very easy to do.
Defend High Repair Gen: So let me get this right, you plan on freely allowing ~45s of 3 gens to be repaired because you were scared of 1 gen popping. The plan is to give the Survivors 1.5 free gens to ensure 11.25s(+2.25s kick) of regression to go into effect? This will force/encourage (perspective dependent) the Killer player to do the smart thing instead of the dumb boring thing. If the Killer hears the unhook loud noise notification they can go right back. Plus with the new and improved Pop, anyone worrying about gens next to hooks doesn't have much ground to stand on.
The carrot of 6.7.0 was tried, and it resulted in MORE camping and tunneling (the latter moreso due to the foolish DS nerf). The theoretical anti-camp stick has to be used now, because too many players sweating in the worst way ruined it for the rest of us. The only ground to give is multifloor 'camped' hooks, but (imo) like most issues with the game, that is a map issue, not core gameplay loop issue. If your counter to a good change is "on like 3 maps it might be bad", I'd say its pretty clear there is no real ground to stand on to defend that stance.
How can I think anti-camping is good for the game? Because I've purposely facecamped as Bubba and other killers to show you can win without skill and it is a problem. Because I've been camped for the full 2 minutes before a single gen has been popped because my team was allergic to gens. Because non-interaction is camping distilled to its most basic form, and non-interaction is antithetical to a multiplayer experience. It is a mechanic that will punish Killers for playing poorly, not well, as I've already detailed how proxy camping is just as effective (untouched by proposed changes), or gen camping is self-sabotaging. If I as a Killer am being looped literally around hook, my inability to get a down and hook them is my failure alone.
Why this method? Well gen timers are already complained about after being given a generous 90s from 80s, but the hook stage timer wasn't modified to compensate. This empowered (face)camping. It seems as though they are hesitant to add hook time, but that also wouldn't address the core problem. If you get caught once, do you deserve to never play in the rest of the match? I'd argue no, given that we have 3 hook stages for each survivor, to match the classic '3 strikes you're out'. I'm fine with endgame camping ensuring a kill for the most part, as the Survivor team typically greeds an attempted 4-man escape. That feeds into interaction, and gives the extreme highs for both sides of "We got everyone out!" as well as "I turned that losing match around!". Camping from the onset means if Survivors don't do the perfect prescribed actions, they lose. That isn't playing a game, that is being forced to play the song someone else requested, with no improv allowed.
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@illNicola said:
The anti-facecamping mechanic will alread be abused by swf, let's don't buff it.
As I said in previous posts, since the mechanic works through floor: Surv A is hooked at ground floor, Surv B chase near the hook OR at floor 1 with reassurance, so Surv A can unhook himself while Surv B keeps the killer and Surv C and D genrush.
It's already bad the mechanic, and it isn't even out, let's not suggest buff to a mechanic that will be abused by swf
My understanding is it could only be abused by Killer's utilizing the 'facecamp kobe bar' as a resource to proxy camp more effectively. They (BHVR) said they have countermeasures in place for when the Survivor goes next to hook before the Killer, so that puts the Killer in control, not SWFs.
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I would want this moreso to deny griefing teammates from unhooking to farm in the Killer's face. Most often seen with 61s rescues after being camped, or the greedy 2s rescue hoping the Killer has no object permanence and forgot they hooked someone seconds ago.
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It is working as intended, the problem is the intent wasn't properly communicated to you, or the majority of the playerbase for that matter. The intent is if you only win by sweating, you will lose if you don't sweat. If you stop sweating long enough, you will lose enough to get you to the point you will win more often than lose again. The problem is people don't like to lose, so they fall back on sweating consciously or subconsciously. If you try to win without sweating, and refuse to cross that line into sweat, you will (eventually) get enjoyable matches again. Again the problem is you have to be willing to lose (enough times) to get you back in what you consider a 'fun MMR'.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452828#Comment_3452828
It was more enjoyable because in the large majority of your games you were being matched with people way out of your league.
Yes thats still the case with MMR, but it was even worst before being matched with people who were barely scratching the 100 hour mark. In the last months I can count on 1 hand the amount of people I've gone against (with their profile visible of course) who had less than 500 hours.
I'd say back then I would be more towards the middle of skill distribution, so it rarely would have people being greatly better or worse in respect to myself. Another aspect is 'red ranks' would allow me to ease on the gas against those weaker teams, and I could go for 8 hook tango's, or 2 hooks each Survivor and letting them go. Now if I run into a baby Meg I have to crush her into paste and make her contemplate uninstalling, otherwise I run the risk of going against only baby Survs. It changed from a win-win to a lose-lose.
Also MMR seems bugged at least on my account, because I get an average 3k hour lobby as Ghosty (most commonly 1k-5k range), and an average 500 hour lobby as Blight(most commonly 100-500 hour range, with occasional Xk hour Survs dragging up the average), despite getting better kill rates with Blight. At least old ranks wouldn't give me those lower hour lobbies nearly as often. To be fair though, it could be negativity bias combined with me getting better. Since I am getting better overtime, getting higher on the distribution of skill levels, the low skill players seem all the lower in skill, and the high skill players don't seem as far.
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It feels very feast or famine. If you don't have EMP as Survivor you can go down nearly instantly, so that makes everyone want to grab an EMP which then provides the opposite problem. I don't know how to adjust this fairly. I think Biopods are better used to snipe people on gens for infection, rather than adjacent. Survivors are far less likely to EMP a distant biopod, which can get a lot of free infections or waste a lot of their time. I did like the idea (I think attributed to Scott Jund) of boxes only 75%ing by default, so you can't drive by and use them on CD. Maybe an alternative to this is the printer doesn't auto-print while the EMP from that box is held. That way you can manually still create them, but doesn't run the issue of a pseudo 9 EMPs available. If someone manually 0-100'd the box, then I think you got enough slowdown from it to not be a problem.
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Botany with Self-Care makes it usable again, and still does help with healing teammates by saving a little over 5 real time seconds per allied heal (in most cases). Since it is a gameplay enabler, it allows for otherwise impossible actions, which is still always good. It has to be used strategically though, like on death hook, in a gen deadzone (away from remaining gens), while an ally isn't available, etc. I would say it usually is worse than the alternatives, but it makes soloq a lot more bearable when you don't want to bring a med-kit. (Blind tome or gen tome for example)
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450598#Comment_3450598
Which is still a flawed system that would need WAY more tweaks than youd think
As flawed as it may be, as both solo Surv and Killer I have had far more enjoyable matches (on average). The only circumstance MMR is more enjoyable is when you SWF and go for pallet/blind saves/MoM/or other throwing actions against Killers that haven't learned how to look at walls before picking up, and even then it either makes you feel bad for bullying baby Killers, or they rage facecamp/hard tunnel the newbie friend who lowered your MMR average low enough to be matched with them. MMR the way it currently stands is still a lose-lose.
@[Deleted User] said:
Without getting too specific, I can say with 1000% confidence that there is no escaping MMR hell on solo survivor. It literally does not matter how high your MMR is. It could be 3000. Doesn't matter. After a certain point, probably around 1400, your teammates stop changing. But you're within range of just about everyone in the DbD playerbase.
The only thing that determines whether you'll have a fun game or not is role population, because the matchmaker widens to accept just about anything after 0.5 seconds in queue, and it doesn't seem to revert to a best match at any point. It widens the acceptable range and stays wide even if a good match becomes available.
To be fair there is a way, but it isn't fun, and ruins the game for the 3 other Survs. You just hide at a gate with Sole Survivor and Wake Up. Never contribute other than a personal gate escape. But that just emphasizes how truly horrible the current system is when you force your team to lose so you can win. Maybe you do gens outside of TR, but don't get hooked once, or you might get facecamped or hard tunneled, or never rescued. The hard opposite of the type of gameplay that should be encouraged.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450143#Comment_3450143
I also played way before 90 seconds change and in reality games are about some and can be faster.
Gens may be 90 seconds but most perks to slow down gens were nerfed and we have lot of new perks to work on gens faster.
There are not really new slowdown perks. Last killer who had slowdown perks is Sadako and it was nerfed into oblivion. So basically Artist. Even new chapter don't have any new slowdown perk.
Meta during 80 sec was pop/ruin. No current slowdown perk comes even close to those two.
That completely ignores my point. Slowdown has always been inferior to pressure. Even an old Pop with (25% of 80) 20 gen seconds is worth 5 real life seconds of uninterrupted soloing gens. Pressure is skill, slowdown is a crutch to rely on when lacking enough skill to apply pressure. The issue is an unskilled Survivor doing the objective is practically the same effectiveness as a skilled one (barring a few great skill checks on the way), but an unskilled Survivor goes down near instantly compared to a skilled one. An unskilled Killer is unable to choose their chases and get the drop on people, or chase someone that better suits their playstyle, whereas a skilled Killer can. Killer's success is entirely reliant on skill, Survivor's is reliant on at least 1 person having skill.
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I would go as far as to have Dance With Me and Boon: Dark Theory both get the same buff: Converting Medium Vaults into Fast Vaults. Dance With Me would be based on the same CD as the scratch marks, but Dark Theory would work as long as you have the effects of the boon, since the boon can be snuffed. To make it known for the Killer it was a converted vault, the Fast Vault would get a different vault sound effect, that way Killers can work with or around it.
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This is a complaint I will never understand, but to be fair I did play with 80s gens and win as Killer plenty. Mathematically, it takes a minimum of 450 gen seconds (90*5) to power the gates. Slowdown has always been intended to slow things down, or more accurately, have gens continue to be progressed, but at a lesser rate. When you start the match, Survivors works gens at a rate of 4 gen seconds per real second. Duoing 2 gens slows this down by 15%, or 3.4 gen seconds per real second, with a Prove Thyself rate of 3.91 gen seconds per real second (both slower than soloing gens).
The true value of damaging Survivors, (and hooking them) is to cut a full gen second from that equation, and also force another gen second to be lost going for the rescue/subsequent heal. That is what people refer to as Pressure, or forcing Survivors to stop progressing gens as their best course of Survival. Applying Pressure is where skill comes into play, as bad Killers can't apply Pressure. As a result they are more reliant on slowdown, and complain when slowdown is nerfed, as they require that crutch to win. They could improve their skill, but that is difficult and takes time, so they'd rather take the easy route instead.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448931#Comment_3448931
The Onis that never drop chase in bad spots typically end up losing. I find far greater success in chasing 1 person to get multiple pre-drops, then chase another person into that deadzone.
Isn't this true for basically all the maps?
I mean to be fair I could also expand that to all normal-ish M1 Killers as well. Two sub-issues though, first Garden and Borgo rely on Bloodlusting the weaker filler pallets, and not the separate re-deadzoned chase (as there are no large enough areas without pallets). Also Oni specifically is more feast or famine than other Killers though. I just mean that similarly to how I call bad Ghosties 'Chasefaces', it was indistinguishable from a few posts whether this was the equivalent or something else.
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@jesterkind said:
Badham and Garden I agree with, those maps are pretty notoriously bad for the killer, but Ormond?
The main building can be problematic, especially when survivors decide they want to be unhookable and build around it, but other than that specific niche build I don't think I've had that much trouble on Ormond. Honestly, I quite like that map, it's about as big as any map should be and most of the loops aren't too obnoxious.
Ehh Ormond has its own issues. The only 2 maps I have difficulties seeing scratch marks on are Borgo and Ormond. If we could customize scratch mark colors it would be fine, but for whatever reason I just can't for the life of me see scratchies only on those 2 maps as Killer.
Ormond is also in general more punishing to the more fun/fair Killers than the oppressive lot. Blight can just dash across the large distance, even if he has to circle the loops normally as an M1 Killer. Spirit gets free wins on the 50-50 central that map further exaggerates. Artist can DMS camp hooks for massive pressure, and so on. Whereas Legion can barely chain multiple hits even if they spawn together, and its the Legion's friggin' map. Trapper barely has any grass to work with, and more. I almost think there should be 2 variants, 1 with a (much) larger main building, but only the main building, and the other with a smaller main building, with the rest of the map shrunk accordingly. Almost like the RPD treatment. (Personally though I had no problems with RPD as both sides with the old single map, and find the new double maps to be too centrally campable. There needs to be more outdoor routes to sneak to the back of the sides, and not force all traffic through the center.)
I agree with OP in regards to the title listed maps, but most of the other maps they talk about are either fair or Killer sided. To be fair if I take the Oni profile pic, and my experience with Oni players into account, that would explain quite a bit. The Onis that never drop chase in bad spots typically end up losing. I find far greater success in chasing 1 person to get multiple pre-drops, then chase another person into that deadzone.
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I totally agree that Unbreakable basekit (22s self-pickups) would be bad, but the 45s gave even the most snowbally Oni more than enough time to hook everyone they downed in power.
As far as finisher Mori/other basekit Mori capabilities, I think 8 hooking (with no kills) would be a good unlock condition. This would allow Killers in easier matches to purposely go for a greater win con (ala Star Fox 64 Mission Complete vs Mission Accomplished). It would be a great way to spread the pressure in a natural way, without forcing the playstyle. It would be great for those super high bragging moments. "You got a 4k? Well I got a 4 basekit Mori!" This also might let more people escape only due to greed, in a similar mirror to Survivors facecamped in endgame. The smart move is to just leave, but you can greed for the 4 out. Same with this theoretical Mori system, you can greed for 4 Moris, or take the safe 3/4k.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446920#Comment_3446920
Pig is a very different animal than Ghostface or Myers. People say that she's a D-tier killer because she has no chase power, but she has built-in slowdown and can afford to run information perks (and therefore benefit from them more).
And that's the thing: information builds are extremely deadly on killers that can make good use of them. I've actually done some experimenting with them lately, and my best Plague build is three info perks plus Bamboozle - no slowdown required, and I win almost every game - but Plague has a ranged attack and all four survivors are running around broken for most of the game.
Myers and Ghostface can't give survivors extra objectives or deter people from rushing gens the way Pig can. If survivors are on gens against those types of killers, they're on gens, and every info perk you run is one slowdown perk you lose out on, which was fine when there was more than one decent slowdown perk in the game.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there: If you're running Ghostface or Myers especially, and all-info build is a great way to lose every match. All the information in the world doesn't help you if the gens are done by the time you've gotten a single kill.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446933#Comment_3446933
You're probably just going up in MMR.
I think I found a place in my survivor MMR where I wasn't moving up or down, and suddenly it feels like everything on survivor got much easier out of nowhere.
Gunna have to disagree with Ghosty on that assessment there. Ghosty thrives on intel because you can get everyone 99'd before committing to a snowbally victory. Ghosty can benefit from both a slow burn victory or a large snowball, but it takes a lot of planning for the snowball wins. The main key to winning as Ghosty is using your power for 90% of downs (sneaking up on them, injured or not), and only chasing people to burn safe pallets. I call every bad Ghosty a Chaseface as a derogatory, because no good Ghosty wins through normal chases, because at that point its like picking Trapper without traps, or Knight without Guards.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445193#Comment_3445193
Yh well everyone gets bad survivors. Borgo is widely known as survivor sided map and i have no trouble looping on it.
I mean you can definitely get a hit with bloodlust 3 on this pallets, but you would lose too much time. Without even counting the safe pallets, which reset your bloodlust and after one hit they are easily reachable.
That kinda is my point though, that even on a favored map as one of the weakest Killers, you can still force a hit (even easier tunneled) in the majority of circumstances. There most certainly were the stronger loops where I needed to kick the pallet, but most people burn them prior to going down near that hook. When I say 'Bloodlust the Borgo/Garden pallet', I mean T1 Bloodlust, so 15-24s before getting the hit.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445169#Comment_3445169
Borgo filler pallet? Almost every filler pallet on borgo is strong and so close, you can chain them easily. I wish someone would try to tunnel me on borgo. They always give up (Nurse excluded).
To be fair i use windows, so its really easy.
There are some weak pallets in one corner, but no reason to loop there.
I legit won the other week as Pig just using stealth for a quick first hit and Bloodlusting those filler pallets. Is it fun? No. Is it effective? Yes.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444560#Comment_3444560
That almost never happens. Yh some killer are strong and get you quick, but not bc of deadzones. You reach a loop, but against a blight or nurse it doesnt help much.
Well the other problem is you have to reach a normal loop, not merely a filler pallet. Even an M1 Killer can bloodlust any Borgo filler pallet, even if there are 30 of them.
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@Saiph said:
I'd argue the self-care nerf in 6.1 was the single worst change that BHVR has ever done.
It considerably widened the gap between casual and veteran players for no good reason. It made solo queue an even more frustrating experience, where you get teammates who do totems instead of gens, but now they also have to spend half the game healing in a corner on top of it. This nerf also made it apparent that BHVR balance team has no clue of how their game works, preferring a mindless pickrate-based approach to balance rather than trying to understanding it or simply listening to veteran players.
Self-care was already considered a weak perk before it was nerfed, as CoH gave you the same effect but for your whole team, and medkits give you a much better effect than both without any perk requirement. Otzdarva rated it 3/5 (mediocre) in his 5.4 perk tier list, that was BEFORE the nerf.
But it was a popular perk for casual players, because it was easy to unlock, had a very noob-catchy description, and because most casual players simply didn't realize how much busted the medkits were.
Then BHVR balance team looked at an Excel spreadsheet, saw that self-care was the top survivor pick, and nerfed it, without any consideration. The perk had high pickrate, so it had to be OP. Even worse, every content creator knew that this nerf was stupid, but they did not complain about it, because 6.1 patch also brought many other changes (like Dead Hard 1st nerf), and nobody really cared about a perk that only casual players use.
For me, this change single-handedly killed the casual playstyle. For months after 6.1, self-care was still top 5 survivor perk on nightlight, despite being considered universally a throw pick (at least without botany). Low MMRs kept equipping the perk regardles and lost game after game as a result, so they stopped playing. Mid-MMR players got these low MMR players as teammates, so they progressively stopped playing, too. Which leads to the sweat fest that DBD has become now.
I would go as far as saying all 6.1.0 double nerfs should have only been single nerfs. DS/Pop/Ruin/IronWill/Self-Care/Thana (which should have just stayed at 5% per Surv instead).
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Kind of a variant of the 'friendly game' post, but compartmentalize matches. By this I mean recognize where you could win a match by playing 'unfair', then 'win' in your mind, and take the 'losing' move instead. You know you could have won if you took the easy road Tunneling the baby Mikaela, and you are just trying to find out if you could win against these specific opponents by taking the hard road chasing after the juicer Bill instead. If you do win, the victory tastes sweeter, and if you lose, you know you coulda won anyways, so you actually let them win.
This results in one of two things more or less. The first result is you lose MMR/matches until you reach a point where you can win by playing that way, like the 'friendly Killer' suggestion. The second result is you end up winning despite choosing the uphill battle, which is basically the first result's ending, but you reached it early.
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@TicTac said:
Tunneling and gen rushing is pretty similar.
On the hook would be camping, not tunneling and there you can do nothing.
And why would you run into a deadzone? Being there bc a gen needs to be done sucks, but if you getting tunneled you dont do gens. And you have two downs to identify a deadzone and run to another location after the unhook.
As far as Deadzones, I think they are talking about getting hard tunnelled off hook. The area around where you got hooked typically is a deadzone because you wouldn't have gone down and utilized the resources if it wasn't. Also many Killers can force a vault grab or bodyblock the vault point even if it isn't a deadzone. Theoretically even against an M1 Killer, the Killer still runs slightly faster than the BT unhooked Surv, but most times you get tunneled by a power use like a Demo Shred/Wesker Dash/Blight Rush/Huntress Hatchet/Nurse Blink/etc.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443761#Comment_3443761
>If you hit all great skillchecks for wiggling you can wiggle off like a full second faster than normal.
They removed that back in January when 6.5.0 dropped. Hitting the great skill checks now just makes it more difficult for the killer to walk in a straight line, sort of a built in weaker Boil Over.
I think this change was super bad. Not only are you forced into the skillcheck wiggle system, with no option to still use left-right wiggling, but the great skill checks don't even wiggle enough to matter anymore. The beta Great check system shrunk super fast, and if you hit every single Great check it shaved off 1 second from 16s to 15s. This wasn't enough to stop the majority of hooks, but it felt so good to deny the distant basement/scourge hook greed. It was also small enough to feel fair on both ends. Rewarding+fair is super good design, and then they tossed it for no discernible reason.
Also I do agree that the hook RNG definitely can be attrocious. I once sabo-ed 2 hooks with a Sprint Burst in-between and the Killer still had time to reach the third hook in time. Other times there is only 1 viable hook because Basement is in the vicinity. They should get rid of the 3 hooks in 15m of each other, and also allow hooks to spawn near basement. It would also make a Basement hook more intentional or done with purpose, and not forced in a good number of scenarios.
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I would be 100% OK with hard deleting BNP+Syringe+Blight+Nurse. It would make the games a lot more enjoyable on both sides.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441767#Comment_3441767
I appreciate the effort of typing that out, but there’s no concrete evidence of that.
I looked up the last stats I could find (https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022) and it says Blight is above 60% kill rate in high (top 5%) MMR. Even if you were to use the all MMR 57% kill rate for Blight, would you honestly assert that Blight is weaker than Dredge, Pinhead, Sadako, (for both charts), as well as Clown, Ghostface, Legion (all MMRs)? I would think you'd have to at least make an effort to think as to why things would happen, and try to explain it, not just taking the stats at face value, as I would think it is quite intuitive at the very least that Blight is stronger than Clown. Then if someone has a differing explanation we describe the weaknesses and strengths in each other's thoughts. That's at least what I see as the entire point of going on the forums to communicate our thoughts, instead of keeping it in our own heads.