jesterkind
jesterkind
About
- Username
- jesterkind
- Joined
- Visits
- 17,633
- Last Active
Comments
-
I have a feeling the more overpowered addons aren't in this kind of update because they, by and large, need more than just a numbers tweak. You used Shape as your example- how the hell do you give a numbers tweak to Tombstone Piece to make it fair? That's just not the kind of change that addon needs, so it can't go in the "quick numbers tweak" slot of a midchapter.
Pinky Finger change is fair, imo. Billy Engravings nerf... eh, maybe if they made up the difference with a basekit buff? Worth posting about when the PTB hits and the feedback section opens, for sure.
-
People have really got to stop trying to tie the incentive bonus they see to some kind of balance argument. There's a bunch of different factors that go into why you see a killer incentive over a survivor one, and they're not gonna apply to everyone- I usually see a survivor incentive, personally speaking.
It isn't a good metric for judging how well or poorly either role is doing.
-
If I had any money I'd buy that, tbh, it's really amusing
Is it befitting...
-
I don't disagree, but the question is, how? It's not a problem with a clear and easy fix, anything simple people present is pretty easily abused by aware survivors or would otherwise just cause problems for regular play - EG, disabling his chainsaw near hooked survivors.
-
There's a lot of good reasons to not give Trapper all of his traps at the start of a match, and those reasons are mostly why the Trapper Sack addon has the downside that it does.
It's also worth mentioning that the devs are "silent" on Trapper because he got a round of changes not that long ago. He does still need help, but it's a perfectly legitimate decision to prioritise killers that haven't been given a round of changes anywhere near as recently as Trapper, or ones that are struggling more than him for reasons unrelated to core strength- like the Twins, on both counts.
-
I'm assuming you're talking about self healing here, and I don't think it being unlimited is an issue here- take Self Care, for example. That perk is unlimited self healing, and it's trash because the numbers are so low.
So, if unlimited fast healing is too strong, but Self Care is trash because it's too slow, it's reasonable to say there's a middle ground where the speed is just right to make the efficiency bonus not outweigh the extra time you're taking so much that it unbalances the whole game. Something like CoH on its own is a good number; time taken to find a totem, time taken to bless it, and the heal itself is slower than if someone else healed you. The problem is that all the sources of healing speed stack in such a way that you can get super consistent, super fast self heals.
-
Only when I'm playing Huntress, it's super infectious.
Oh, and sometimes Legion. That theme is just too much of a banger not to, I've lost chases due to simulating headbanging with my mouse lol
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373692#Comment_3373692
I think we just disagree on how strong being self-reliant is in this game. Self-Care had to smashed down from 50% heal speed to 35% heal speed and have its medkit buff removed to get people to stop using it. But Circle of Healing still existed, which does almost exactly what old Self-Care did but way better, so now everyone uses that instead. Medkits are the strongest items survivors can bring. Good players use all these things because they understand that two survivors healing is a bigger hit to team efficiency than just one survivor healing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373699#Comment_3373699
you definitely shouldn't have a say in DBD's balance.
Same to you.
You just want to play hit and run killers with a hit and run strategy and never deviate from that in matches, don't you? You never want to chase further for a down, you want to camp gens and only get downs if someone is already injured. You can't play killers like Wraith differently, it's why you're fine with medkits and Inner Healing (because as you said, those run out), and okay with Self-Care because it wastes a huge amount of time + newbie trap. You want low-effort pressure to easily stay for a long time and it shows.
You sure are presumptuous. Is that the only way you can argue, making up conclusions about people so you can attack them? Have fun punching that strawman you built, because talking to you is a waste of time.
To be fair, using Self-Care on its own even prior to 6.1 was still throwing, that speed - even though it's faster than now - was still too slow to be viable. To this day I have no idea why it retains such a high pickrate. Noob trap, maybe?
Being self-reliant is extremely strong, but again, there's a limit- that's the point of bringing up Self-Care. Sure, that's technically self reliant in that it unlocks the self-heal ability... but you're not getting any value from that self-reliance because you're wasting considerably more time than would've been spent healing you. Now, CoH doesn't reach that level because it's not trash, but it does undercut how much value you get out of being self-reliant because it makes you do those actions slower.
You're right that medkits are the strongest item survivors can bring, but that's not just because they heal you. It's because there's no penalty to healing yourself, and in fact, it's often faster than a teammate healing you. Medkits are busted right now, as are a few other elements of fast self-healing, but the whole mechanic needs careful adjustments, not nerfing one of the middling elements of a good healing build.
-
Lethal Pursuer for killer. I very much enjoy not having to guess where the survivors spawned, even if I can do it relatively reliably at this point.
As for survivor, probably Deja Vu? I'm still a little more inexperienced with survivor and don't have as strong a grasp of generator spawns, and knowing where the 3-gen is throughout the trial is very valuable information.
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373672#Comment_3373672
Circle of Healing heals you slower than medkits, though. Noticeably slower with a base medkit, and significantly slower with proper speed addons/perks for a medkit.
Circle of Healing doesn't deplete.
It may be slower than medkits, but it's more efficient. CoH does not exist for one survivor, it exists for all of them. It doesn't run out, the only way to stop it is if the killer goes out of their way to spend time and focus snuffing it, and then it can be set back up again anyway. You mention the time it takes to find a totem and bless it but that only counts for one survivor, the other three don't have that time investment and can run to the boon to heal any time they want so long as it's up. CoH doesn't consume resources, it only consumes time, and that time is offset by the efficiency it offers to the whole team. Medkits are fast and self-use, but limited. Teammate heals are unlimited but are slow and occupy two players at once, reducing generator pressure. CoH is kinda slow but only occupies you while everyone else can keep doing their own thing, and you can use it as much as you want until the killer find it -- and if CoH is set up in a corner of the map where all the generators are done, the killer has no reason to go there and would waste very valuable time and pressure if they did.
The self-heal is the biggest problem. It is a team-wide efficiency buff that is very good at undermining a killer's ability to pressure survivors, especially in late-game, and there are few means to counter it effectively, other than just tunneling the survivor with CoH out of the game -- if you can even figure out who it is in the first place.
Right, but speed clearly matters. Self-Care also doesn't deplete, but if you actually try and use that on its own (at this point even with speed boosts, frankly) you're throwing, because each heal takes an absurd, ridiculous amount of time.
Circle of Healing on its own is a relatively balanced healing speed. It doesn't deplete, but it's slower than having someone else heal you, meaning the time saved by not having to get someone else to heal you is undercut both by the increased time to finish the heal and, as you point out, traversing to a corner of the map where the killer is unlikely to go snuff it out. Obviously it still breaks in your favour, it's a good perk, but it's not overpowered.
The reason I think so many people think otherwise is that nobody does use CoH on its own, they use it with medkits, where the speeds and efficiency get insanely fast. Just nerfing CoH isn't really going to fix the issue of vanishing pressure from super fast heals, because you don't need Circle of Healing to achieve that, there are a few different ways of getting it. Healing speeds as a whole need to be looked at, not one perk that's just kind of "pretty decent" on its own.
-
From the sounds of it, you might want to retool your builds to focus on early pressure? Something like Corrupt Intervention or my personal favourite, Lethal Pursuer, to get you on survivors at the start of the match quickly and prevent the furthest generators from being instantly powered through while you're in the locating-and-chasing period of the game.
It's hard to say without more specifics, but my general advice is normally to make sure your builds have a purpose instead of being four separate perks doing things without synergy, and make sure you're playing to your killer's strengths with your perk choice and such.
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373633#Comment_3373633
If removing the self-heal makes CoH worthless in your eyes then that's fine by me, I still think it'd be pretty good and I'm even willing to buff CoH's healing speeds in exchange for dropping the self-heal mechanic so that it would still be worth running to the Boon to heal teammates. But I repeat: if you want to heal yourself, either use a medkit or Self-Care. (Or Inner Healing, I do like Inner Healing.) I'm even perfectly fine with CoH applying to both of those in exchange, so you can run CoH and Self-Care to make it functional. Yes, that's using two perk slots for one thing, and that's fine because healing yourself quickly without the help of teammates is really powerful. That's why medkits are the best item in the game, but at least those run out eventually. CoH is basically a team-wide unlimited medkit, and that's a load of crap.
Circle of Healing heals you slower than medkits, though. Noticeably slower with a base medkit, and significantly slower with proper speed addons/perks for a medkit.
The self-heal is not the problem, the problem is that CoH stacks aggressively with other forms of healing, which doesn't actually require CoH to get to super fast speeds. A survivor who heals themselves with CoH and CoH alone takes... I think 21 seconds, somewhere around there? Noticeably slower than the default healing speed, and that's on top of the bless time, and the time to locate the totem in the first place + travel back to it later.
-
While I am refraining from making any snap judgements until I've played with the new kit, these changes don't seem like they even average out to a nerf at all, let alone nerfing her into the ground.
It looks like she's going to be stronger at everything but the 3-gen strategy, and she was never the problem there to begin with so if you want to hold a 3-gen with her you definitely still can.
-
Shattered Hope obviously should not be basekit because of how wildly unnecessary it would be for all the other boons; not only are they not strong enough to warrant it, but it also completely undoes the entire core mechanical purpose and intent behind the boon mechanic. That much is obvious and undeniable, so that argument - despite it being correct - is not the one that I'm going to make here.
The argument I'm going to make is that basekit Shattered Hope would be a bad idea against CoH too.
If what you hate, as most do, is that survivors can run to a boon and undo your pressure by healing themselves, then Shattered Hope would make that problem worse, not better. If the effect is too strong, and you never have a good opportunity to actually go to the other side of the map and snuff the boon... how would the only available counterplay being going out of your way to the other side of the map to break the boon actually fix anything? It'd be the exact same scenario as before, where unless you have a way of slowing generators down to a crawl enough that the time investment is worth it, you're going to lose if you have to go trek to the four corners of the map for multiple snuffing.
Now, for the record, CoH itself is not really a problem in terms of raw strength. Its issues are that it contributes to the wider problem of healing speeds (which do not require, but are improved by, CoH), and that it works opposite to the way the other boons are meant to function. If it's to be changed, it needs a rework. Not a boon-wide mechanic, not a new special downside, a complete ground-up rework to have it do something completely and utterly different; the perk equivalent of Freddy's massive overhaul.
-
Agreed! Very welcome change.
-
@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373446#Comment_3373446
I don't know. I really have this feeling that things aren't over.
If they still allowed for trapped survivor to disarm the drones, but of course, that one she gets back. I think i would be less worried.
With that, i fear for hard 3 gen into tunneling some guy, making 1 drone unhackable while solos need to coordinate to which survivor can disarm the drones and which can't.
I might be wrong, we will only know next week.
Of course it's not over, they're addressing Skull Merchant, not the problem itself.
What this should achieve, hypothetically, is making Skull Merchant herself slightly less effective at this strategy while giving her a clear alternative to pursue so she isn't left twisting in the wind. Remember that while a trapped survivor can't hack a drone, a trapped survivor is effectively forcing one of her four drones onto a cooldown- and once that cooldown ends, the trap is gone, so they can go hack again.
Of course, we'll have to wait and see, but I do think there's enough reason to be optimistic here.
-
It's certainly not going to fix the overall problem since the problem was never Skull Merchant to begin with, but in theory it should help her power not contribute to the problem as much. It was already only somewhat contributing, and this will ensure that disabling drones buys you more time towards the end of the game since it can't be replaced until the trap breaks, which means either a hard timer or she has to come chase you- both helpful in this scenario.
Overall I feel... optimistic, though I'm concerned that her "web of traps" playstyle is going to be hurt too much. I'll refrain from commenting too concretely until I've had a chance to play with the updated kit, I think.
-
Honestly, realistically, very few perks are genuinely bad.
Some are weak enough that making them work requires a fair amount of effort, so I suppose you could include those too, but even they tend to do something noticeable in their niches. Take Furtive Chase- that always comes up in conversations about bad killer perks, because its "main" effect is borderline useless, but its secondary effect can be really solid depending on your build. If you want to target the Obsession, or open yourself up to more variance in avoiding the Obsession, then any perk that swaps that around is good- and all Furtive Chase requires for that is an unhook.
So, is Furtive Chase a bad perk? On its own, absolutely. But in its correct niche, it can be the binding agent that lets builds function properly. I wouldn't call it bad, personally, because it has a clear use that does work and does provide value- even if it's mostly for gimmick builds.
The perks you're left with that are legitimately bad would be ones that either hinder you more than they help (for example, Predator) or perks that just fail to reach even their proper niche (Deathbound, especially after the weird scream changes). There really aren't that many of those, what you're far more likely to see are perks that work perfectly well and do provide value but are simply outclassed by other perks- Spies From The Shadows, for example, is a perfectly serviceable tracking perk that just happens to be outclassed by most other tracking perks.
-
I feel a lot of players could do with remembering that they are not paying for DBD rewards, they are paying for Amazon Prime and one of the many benefits from the Prime Gaming subset of benefits is DBD content.
They're not paying customers to DBD, they're paying customers to Amazon.
With that in mind, and also remembering that most Prime Gaming rewards are aggressively mediocre, I don't think there's any reason to insist on exclusivity. It's just a little freebie on top of your main purchase, I don't see an issue with other people maybe getting it too later on down the line.
-
@stonedcandle said:
You didn't explain why his starting with all of his traps is less "tactical gameplay" than him not. You just said it gives him a tactic you don't like because it's similar (Trapper and Artist are nothing alike.) to another killer. Trapper having all of his traps at the start would offer him more tactical gameplay because you wouldn't have to spend the first 2 minutes of a match gathering and placing traps.
And basement Trapper isn't common or even a thing that affects most players. Certainly starting with all of his traps would offer that tactic more frequently instead of being reliant on RNGeesus to place your traps close to the basement so you don't have to spend 2 minutes collecting them to set up your basement hooks. But is that really a problem? Is a basement hook-and-trap setup an instant win?
Trapper right now isn't in a good place. And maybe giving him all of his traps at the start isn't the buff he needs. But this isn't a good argument against doing it, if anything it shows quite the opposite. That specific buff would offer Trapper far more tactical possibilities than he has now just from the sheer amount of time you would save not having to run around all game collection traps.
The first buff Trapper needs though is his traps need to be fixed. Especially on stairs and anything with a slight shift in terrain. That's the first place they should start with all of the killers. There are so many bugs on them that I'm surprised people still play half of them.
I'm not saying that Trapper and Artist are anything alike, I was using Artist as an example of how a simple and boring option will be taken over learning how to play a killer to a greater effectiveness, no matter how far away from the killer's clear intended playstyle it is. There are other killers like this too- Knight has the same problem as Artist, and you could argue facecamping Bubba and 3-gen Skull Merchant are the same way. These killers aren't the same, they're not alike and they don't play the same, but the core idea I'm getting at is present in all of them.
Again, it's not about strength. It's about Trapper's identity and the way players are encouraged and pushed towards playing him. It's not just about basement, it's about how Trapper having all of his traps from the get-go would make "get first down, set up everything around hook, proxy camp" the most easy and straightforward way of playing him- and that's not only not really all that fun for the opposing team, it's also clearly not how Trapper's designed to be played. There's no reason to bother learning optimal trap placements or how to corral survivors into your setup area if his kit not only allows you to ignore it, but makes ignoring it far more approachable.
If the most stale and boring way of playing a killer is also the easiest and most readily available way of playing that killer, that's how a majority are going to play them. That was the point of the Artist comparison.
-
@MonsterDilf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370126#Comment_3370126
It would make more sense for well lit areas to be threatening/dangerous if the lighting in the game actually lent to that. There's so many aura revealing perks it's kind of pointless to need to play on Coldwind, for instance, because of visibility. I LOVE the dynamic lighting of the upcoming TCM game, it looks legit spooky because the sheer contrast gives it more than just everything being dark blue. Dynamic lighting/shadows changes the experience insanely.
"As for Trickster, it doesn't really matter why they decided to make him, what matters is if he's a horror character- and he is, very much so. Same as Skull Merchant."
To this part, well, it's kind of the argument of "well he was made to be horror, so there you go, the end."
We can criticize intentions, especially if the intent is just to piggy back off what is current but then not do much else. SM is an example of the faults of piggy backing off the "Sex sells," energy and really falling flat. SM is bad design, part of the overarching aesthetic/design direction that the game has been facing.
That's not the argument at all. The argument is, divorced from the popularity of k-pop, Trickster is still very much a horror character. He would make the perfect subject for a horror movie, his story and design are clearly a part of the horror genre, and so... he's just a fine character for DBD. It doesn't matter that k-pop is popular enough for BHVR to have tried making a k-pop killer based on potential profit alone... because they succeeded. They made a good killer that fits into the game, at least in terms of aesthetic and story.
Same with Skull Merchant. I think it's a giant "citation needed" to say she's a sex-sells type of character, basically the only thing you could fairly connect to that is her walk cycle and that's pretty tenuous evidence, but even if she were- the end result is very clearly a horror-appropriate character. She's just not a grimy slasher, she plays off different horror concepts.
One thing I find so interesting about the argument that Trickster and now Skull Merchant don't fit in DBD because of how little they resemble the archetypal killer, someone like Trapper, is that nobody complained when we first got killers that are as far away from traditional slashers as Trapper is. Blight and Demogorgon represent just as big a change in aesthetic design as Trickster or Skull Merchant, but because they differed in a way that still bent towards the visually scary, nobody batted an eye.
DBD is a game that is meant to celebrate horror, the "horror hall of fame" as they call it. Eventually you run out of slashers, and you start addressing other kinds of horror- like monsters, or rich people hunting humans for sport, or the horror of someone using their social status to get away with torture and murder. Those things don't test this game's aesthetic and concept, they're just already a part of it.
-
@BabyShrimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368812#Comment_3368812
I don't think you are wrong, but the game is still called "Dead By Daylight" and given the Entity feeds off fear, and hope, I think it would make sense to be as gloomy as possible. It's a nightmarish otherworldly place that's MADE for people to be hunted by killers. I see what you mean by balancing though, I just feel like literally making it daytime is too far.
Also Trickster was obviously just there to cater to the K-pop craze, not a huge fan of him, but hey, he does have a more interesting power than Skull Merchant.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368823#Comment_3368823
She just became a millionaire who gets away with murder out of nowhere.
Well, you said it yourself- the Entity needs survivors to feel some degree of hope. Wouldn't it be more hopeful to be somewhere a little brighter?
Besides, like I said, the gloomy aesthetic isn't a requirement for horror. Brightly lit places can be foreboding and scary even in real life- ever been in a hospital long after dark? Empty, sterile halls, with harsh and unnatural lights making it impossible to tell how long you've been there or what time it is unless you get to a window...
Or, to repeat my earlier example, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Parts of that movie do take place at night, but parts of it take place during the day, and they all contribute to that movie's masterful horror tone.
The name is just a name, it's okay if not everything in the game follows it to the letter. Not every character in Overwatch is from the actual organisation Overwatch, for example.
As for Trickster, it doesn't really matter why they decided to make him, what matters is if he's a horror character- and he is, very much so. Same as Skull Merchant.
-
@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369913#Comment_3369913
“Not engaging” for survivors you mean. On the flip side, chasing one guy around a bunch of strong pallets or windows for at least a minute isn’t fun. Not all of us even want to kick gens constantly without ever going into chase. Therefore CoB OC should be left alone as they’re essential to keep gens under control without having to overcommit to a chase, especially when the perks that give benefits once chases are won aren’t even that good anymore.
Well, sure, but surely that only adds another element to consider, it doesn't override the fact that the situation we're describing isn't exactly engaging for one side of the game. It's not as though you need CoB and Overcharge at all, let alone in their current state, so we can absolutely change CoB to be less problematic while still being useful.
That's kind of why I like this idea. Letting it synergise with more perks by having it not be based on a kick but rather on everything that isn't a kick opens up a lot of opportunities for solid and dependable perk builds, something that is pretty unambiguously a net positive.
-
@IlliterateGenocide said:
I don't really think it needs to be nerfed, it's only as strong as old ruin but you had to kick instead of chase off, it's only broken when combined with eruption but since that has been changed its not bad at all
To play devil's advocate, it isn't always about strength. Sometimes it's about the kind of gameplay that a perk or addon or what have you encourages, and whether that gameplay is the kind of thing you want to be popular and common. Many would argue, and I do see their point, that jealously defending a 3-gen with repeated CoB/Overcharge kicking isn't particularly engaging gameplay for anyone and things that make it popular should be changed.
-
Hmm...
The concern you'd have with a perk like this is whether someone who only has access to Sadako and no other teachables would even be able to use it since the perk does nothing on its own. It'd make Adept Sadako a little harder since there's nothing that really synergises with it for her, but beyond that... you'd have access to at least Jolt, so I think you'd be alright to make it a synergy perk instead of one that works on its own.
Yeah, I'm alright with that. I like synergy perks like Thrill and Undying, I'd like to see some more- I'd be all for this change.
-
@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368803#Comment_3368803
Because most killers can't act on aura reading the gutted Eruption provides and by the time you can act on it, the lost progression has already been made up for and by the time you get there the generator is about to pop if it hasn't already.
Aura reading when you've downed someone is useless because if you just downed someone you're going to be carrying them to the nearest hook, not stomping over to an Erupted generator.
That's my point. You don't need to immediately act on the information for that information to be useful to you, it is still useful and valuable knowledge even if you don't act on it at all because it tells you where survivors are.
Knowing where everyone is, even in situations where you're not going over to them, is valuable information. It lets you make more informed decisions and better enhances your macro gameplay. This is why Thrilling Tremors is a pretty decent perk even though you aren't going to act on the information when you get it, because it lets you make more informed decisions - the point of it isn't that you go walk to the unblocked generator while carrying the survivor, the point is that you know which generators are being worked on and which aren't.
Plus, again, the aura isn't why you'd run Eruption. 10% regression on multiple generators simultaneously is perfectly usable, that's still a pretty solid regression perk- the aura is just a nice bonus for helping control the trial with better macro information.
-
I think the problem with this take is that it presents "horror aesthetic" as being one, incredibly restrictive thing: dark and gloomy and grainy. That obviously isn't the only aesthetic that a horror movie can have, so why should a game that's all about celebrating the horror genre stick to it obsessively without any room for variety? That's not to mention the gameplay requirements of a game like this which necessarily require certain elements be at least toned back-- while there's a lot of discussion about how the balance of The Game (the map, that is) changed in its update, it's undeniable that brightening that map up helped it immensely because now you can, y'know, actually see and navigate around it.
To pick another example, let's look at Coldwind. It's true that the maps used to be more straightforward in their atmosphere, very dark and foreboding, but they were also completely miserable to play on because you couldn't see anything, especially in the corn. So, they got brightened up, and now they function far better as gameplay maps - except for Cowshed, but that's balance, not aesthetic. Even with the new aesthetic, they didn't move away from horror in general, they moved to a different kind of horror; bright, glaring, sun-blasted, the new Coldwind maps look, fittingly, like certain portions of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I doubt anyone would put an asterisk next to that movie's horror atmosphere.
A similar thing applies to the killers. We do have traditional dark and gritty looking slasher characters, but we also have a few monsters and a few characters from other types of horror- like Trickster coming right out of a psychological horror movie, and Skull Merchant being an example of the rich hunting people for sport, a very classic horror archetype. That doesn't clash with DBD's aesthetic, it enhances it, allowing the game to show and represent more kinds of horror than just, Jason Voorhees number fifty-three.
TL;DR: Horror doesn't have to be visually dark and gloomy, so there's no reason DBD should have to be either.
-
I've never understood why people are so averse to passive information that you don't immediately act on. Knowing where survivors are is still useful to you even if you don't immediately go and chase them, it doesn't have to always be as straightforward as killer-see-killer-chase. There's wider macro knowledge to consider too.
Not that the aura read on Eruption is what makes it viable. 10% regression on multiple generators at once is still pretty solid, especially on mobile killers who can apply the mark quicker than others.
-
I didn't know tracking, stealth, and M1 chases were the community's most hated mechanics and playstyles.
-
I had a similar totally random crash while playing as the Skull Merchant, so that's a little more evidence that it's her.
-
I'm still not sure exactly how Skull Merchant's kit makes her better than the average killer at holding a 3-gen. Her kit does three things, right, and two of them are almost useless in 3-gen scenarios because you already know where survivors are and they already know where you are in a broad sense because... it's a 3-gen, it's a tight area you can easily control by walking around it, that's the entire definition of what a 3-gen is.
That leaves the third part, her exposed, and that's just straight weaker for 3-gen scenarios than something like an infinite Tier 3 Myers or a Pinky Finger Clown or just a straight up basekit Leatherface. What about her can you nerf to make her not as good at 3-gen scenarios, considering it really seems like it's just normal 3-gen tactics being applied through her?
There may be something I'm missing about this that explains why she is the problem and not just, regular 3-gen builds that any killer can do and most can do better than her, but it doesn't seem that way from where I'm sitting. If the way her games are going is a problem, then the cause - things like CoB, for example - should probably be looked at before she is.
-
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366914#Comment_3366914
Because they're different mechanics designed with different purposes aiming towards different goals. Boons aren't designed the same way as hexes in any other regard (beyond interacting with totems), so why should they have the same downside?
Precisely! You made a very good point... just not the way you pretended it to be.
The argument of why Hexes can't be rekindled or work like Boons is because they are so strong that they need a hard counter to them, while boons provide more situational and weak effects, but in exchange can be moved or relit all what you want in exchange of expending some time doing so. That's the design point:
- Hexes: Strong and useful along the whole match (in most cases), easily counterable and with only one use.
- Boons: Weak and situational, but infinite uses in exchange of time.
The thing is, that design philosophy is not true for CoH. It is not weak at all to the point it is a viable substitute of multiple items and perks while at the same time buffing those items and perks if you have them, and because of that it is useful in all situations and matches, reason why it is practically the only boon used. Also, it has an useful universal effect for survivors: Healing, which at the same time acts as a way to counter killers effort and time. So, you could say by the way it work that this boon is stronger for survivors that many hex perks are for killers, as not every hex perk would benefit all killers on all situations, and the ones they do like Ruin or NOED have a secondary condition or counter (just until the first survivor is dead / aura revealed to survivors so it's easy to find).
TL;DR and to conclude: If it doesn't follows the boons design logic of "weak and situational, but infinite" and it follow more the design of Hexes, being
moreas powerful and useful to survivors as many Hex perk are for a killer, why it doesn't have the same downsides as an Hex?CoH needs a nerf, and that nerf is making it work like an Hex with the advantage that you can choose in which totem you want it to be or make it more weak and situational by removing the self-healing effect unless you have self-care or leaving it but removing the buff to healing, for example. Simple as that.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that boons are meant to be weak per se, but that's a nitpick.
For the record, I do actually dislike that CoH doesn't follow the established conventions of the boon perks and doesn't really lend itself well to the intended function. Though, I equally don't like the idea that it would become functionally different to the others in its perk type in that way, I'd rather see CoH entirely reworked to have a different effect if we come to the conclusion that we have to fix the way it clashes with the rest of the boons.
Like, I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I think the conclusion of "so it should work like hexes" is a bit misguided, personally. I'd rather see it brought in line with the other boons instead of muddying the waters by making it an exception like that- I would view that as potentially necessary from the perspective of the boon mechanic, but not from the perspective of the actual strength of the perk. On its own, CoH is only "pretty decent", it's not something that needs changing based on its strength alone.
Healing speeds are their own problem, CoH just kind of became the face of it for some reason despite that not reeaaally being accurate.
-
@Moz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366914#Comment_3366914
The mechanics: A perk connected to a totem to give it's user(s) an advantage/ability or the opposition a disadvantage/disability. Unless of course you mean Hex totems are fixed at the start of the trial that cannot be moved or replaced vs Boon Totems you can place wherever you want and whenever you want. Yes, different mechanics, purposes and goals indeed.🤨
Sure, those are the mechanics- or at least, about half of the relevant elements of the mechanics. You haven't addressed the purpose or goal of the two separate perk types, though.
Boons are meant to be a trade. The survivor gets to apply limited-area buffs, but the killer can push them back onto that totem to spend more time setting it up. Survivors are meant to bank on getting enough value out of each bless that they aren't wasting that time, and since most of the boons (CoH is an outlier in this regard and that is my biggest problem with it at this point) require the killer to be nearby them to get value, the killer always has the option of snuffing the totem to try and pull survivors back towards it.
Just look at the actual perks we have. So many of the hexes would be wildly overpowered if they could be relit infinite times, and all of the boons save for CoH would be completely useless if they were single use. They are clearly designed differently just on that single point alone.
-
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366012#Comment_3366012
It‘s way faster than old Self-Care though, the 50% bonus also applies to the self-heals. It’s a 21 second heal, not 32.
If it was actually 32 seconds and then had some restriction with medkits it’d probably be fine.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366067#Comment_3366067
I agree with this, though I think CoB/Overcharge are problems too, not just maps and killer design.
My mistake.
21 seconds is still longer than 16, however, so my overall point stands: it's not infinite medkits because it's slower than default healing speed, and that extra time is on top of setup and the range restriction. On its own, Circle of Healing is pretty reasonable, I'll take a team that has one CoH and no other healing speed boosts over teams with proper medkits and healing builds any day.
Healing speeds overall need to be brought in line, and CoH is only one (comparatively quite small) element of that.
@Moz said:
The argument should be this: Why do survivors have totems that can have infinite uses but the Killer cannot? It's a design/balancing issue that's beyond any single perk. There are only two possible solutions to this: Boon totems either need to be single use or hex totems need to have the ability to be rekindled.
Oh, I can answer that: Because they're different mechanics designed with different purposes aiming towards different goals. Boons aren't designed the same way as hexes in any other regard (beyond interacting with totems), so why should they have the same downside?
-
It doesn't give the team an infinite medkit, though. It gives the team an infinite old-numbers Self Care, which is a wildly different situation.
Personally, I don't think Circle of Healing is causing problems based on its strength right now- one could argue it's problematic for the wider health of the boon mechanic, but when it comes to what CoH actually does on its own, it's really not that big of a deal anymore. Old Self Care is a reasonable speed, and a 50% bonus on altruistic heals is the same as Botany Knowledge in a restricted area that requires setup, so I'd say that's fair too.
The problem with CoH comes when it's stacked with other sources of heal speed. If it couldn't be stacked with medkits, for instance, we'd be in a much better spot already- though it's worth mentioning that ultra fast healing speeds don't actually require CoH and so are therefore their own problem.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364899#Comment_3364899
Drones can't be placed by hooked survivors, but they can be placed close enough that the edge of the active zone is only a few meters from the hook, which is all that matters.
I dunno, the drone seems like it's gotta be pretty far away before the hook action wouldn't remove it. Like the person above said, that feels a whole lot less effective than literally any killer running Insidious. It's just regular ass proxy camping, nothing special to Skull Merchant.
-
Her power can't be up near a hooked survivor, though, so she'd have to be pretty far away for that to work- and at that point, any killer can do what she's doing since she isn't using her power near the hook.
-
One thing I'd like to add is that swinging into a Dead Hard isn't automatically going to lose you the game if it happens once and it happens early. By which I mean, if you absolutely detest playing around a Dead Hard that might not even be there... don't. You don't have to, just swing and check if they have it.
Lunging at an injured survivor in their first chase is technically a risk, but the downside isn't game-changing. Plenty of killers can swing into DH and still win, it might be kind of annoying sometimes but it's a perfectly reasonable risk to take if you personally hate the safer route. (Though, lunging in general isn't a great idea outside of pallets/windows.)
You can also take the extra step and bring something like Fearmonger to counter Dead Hard, if you likewise detest playing around it. That has the benefit of working against the other Exhaustion perks too, so it's honestly a pretty solid perk pick at the moment.
-
A lot of people are pointing out the potential toxicity and just unpleasant nature of voice chat in other games, and how that'd be just as bad if not worse here, and they're right- but I'd like to make the other, imo more compelling argument myself here.
Adding voice chat natively into the game does not give everyone SWF. Even setting aside that the ability to communicate is only half of what makes a SWF strong (with the other half being, the knowledge that your teammates aren't trash), the fact remains that voice chat being implemented doesn't mean everyone will be able to communicate. Some people would; the stars can align in certain regions for everyone to have a mic, want to use it, and do so effectively, but what about the regions where it's a non-starter because not everyone speaks the same language?
A solution that only sometimes works for one or two regions of players is not a solution at all. You'd just be in a spot where some players get to communicate and others don't- which is, you'll notice, the exact same scenario that we're in now.
Voice chat is not a solution to the problems with solo queue. To continue bridging the gap between solo queue and SWF, we need to focus on passive information provided by the game itself, not active voice comms.
-
Others have pointed out that Incapacitated is part of killers' powers, but I think it warrants highlighting that it specifically wasn't the "new effect to come with" Eruption. It started with the Twins, it's Victor's status effect first and foremost and it's only been expanded to include other killers and Eruption after their release.
As for what the future holds, I imagine it's not going to be on any perks after now. It shouldn't be, as far as I can see, I struggle to see a perk use for it that wouldn't have the same issues as Eruption. Given that the Huntress addon is kind of bad and should be reworked too, I'd imagine the future is that it'll be something Twins use a lot, Pinhead uses a little, and maybe future killers have cause to use in their power.
If you don't personally think those are useful instances of it, then that just means Incapacitated isn't useful in your eyes. It can't be put on perks like it was with Eruption, because we saw how badly that went.
-
The rest of OTR works after you're hit, doesn't it? It just uses up the Endurance, not the entire perk. At least as far as I'm aware, I've not used it myself all that much.
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361379#Comment_3361379
I mean she's better than she was at her worst, but I'd still say she's at least equal if not worse than Billy and Deathslinger. But also, ""Nerf Pig" has become somewhat of a meme now, so even if she got massive buffs, the meme would persist.
Right, but I think perhaps the point where you stop making the "Nerf Pig" meme is the point at which Pig has been given multiple buffs in a row and is in pretty much the best spot she ever has been.
It was never a particularly accurate meme, but there's got to be a point where it starts being a little weird to keep making that joke as reality becomes more and more detached from it, surely.
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Hillbilly and Deathslinger... yeah, they're languishing...
Meanwhile...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HFF74ECN252V/amanda-shhhh.gif
...Pig's been buffed multiple times and is in a pretty good spot right now, though?
-
In my heart I'm hoping for a campy, schlocky love-letter to slashers that looks at a loose interpretation of just one trial, but I think they're probably going to do something with a bit more narrative.
Maybe something that focuses on the "real world" in DBD, with characters learning about the Entity? Or a story about the OG four getting taken?
It's possible, but I think unlikely, that it's just one killer's backstory. The bold choice would be to make like, an All-Kill adaptation specifically, but I doubt they'd take that route.
-
My absolute favourite instance of negativity I've ever gotten was the guy who left a comment on my Steam profile saying "You aren't good at the game, you just play Bubba. Learn to play."
This would make some modicum of sense if I were camping with Bubba at the time, but dear readers, I was showing off the game to some friends on stream during that game so I was being as active as possible lmao
My actual fondest memory was playing Trapper, downing someone who'd stepped in a trap, and resetting that trap before picking them up... leading to the person waiting in the wings for a pallet save stepping in that trap themselves and gifting me a second down. Super satisfying.
-
Green maps have a function, don't they? It's not a useful function, but they do actually do something.
Broken Keys are, I think, literally useless on their own so I wouldn't mind those being taken out. Then again, you could argue that's a free key to slap a Blood Amber on or something if you manage to take it out with you, so it isn't entirely useless in the grand scheme of things. Still, though.
-
I honestly couldn't tell you and that has me pretty excited.
The way I see it, these filmmakers definitely have options. They could go for something campy and schlocky by looking at one specific trial, or a new story about someone uncovering the existence of the Entity, or a story focused on one of their original killers' backstory...
There's a lot of different directions this could go so I'm pretty hype to see which one they pick!
-
The idea is that one match isn't going to swing your MMR all that much at all. Sure, in ONE match you may do a ton of valuable work and end up facecamped to death, but that's not happening every match and the few times it happens shouldn't statistically make that much of a difference to your overall MMR.
If you can play that well consistently, odds are you're escaping more matches than you die in, and that means your MMR goes up overall. This design of MMR is not unique, btw, most games that I'm aware of use some variation of "wins go up, losses go down" as the basis for their MMR.
-
Pain Resonance isn't overpowered the way that Eruption was, so I don't think you can draw a one-to-one connection there.
As others have pointed out, if more meta perks get nerfed, it'd probably be the ones causing actual problems like Call of Brine and its 3-gen application. Things aren't just nerfed for being popular (outside of 6.1 anyway, but that was its own thing), they're nerfed for a reason.
-
I don't really "main" anyone, but my go-to killer for if I just want to play that role and don't have any other inclination is Clown and yes, I genuinely enjoy him.
Map design could use some work but if I didn't enjoy this game I wouldn't play it, it's not so bad that I can't have fun with the killers I enjoy playing- and that includes a fair number of M1 killers.