jesterkind
jesterkind
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@XxBloodyBaronxX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936651#Comment_3936651
Tbr I see it as both a nerf and a buff. If someone has Prove Thyself, there's no way a killer is gonna be able to get to that gen before it gets popped, especially with a BNP and whatever other gen perks the survivors decide to bring
That's still a buff to killers overall.
Exempting Prove which requires them to be grouped up (and doesn't have that much of an impact) those tools would all be much stronger on separate generators right from the start. Losing one generator is an improvement over losing three, y'know?
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937206#Comment_3937206
Imagine this perk would have a lingering effect for like 3 minutes. It would suddenly be a lot better. I‘d still prefer that this boon works globally, but that‘s the closest we get I suppose.
I'd sooner buff what it does than give it a linger that lasts that long.
My pitch from back on Alan Wake's PTB hasn't really changed. Keep everything it does now, but add two things:
- It shows the aura of the exit gates
- It shows the aura of any survivor interacting with a highlighted aura
You could also add a short linger onto that as well, but the idea would be that while you're in the totem's range, you get great info on objectives and player positioning. This would make it a much more valuable boon in solo queue, because not only will you know that your teammate Meg is on a gen that's 80% done… you'd also know where that gen is if the killer chases her away. Among other applications, of course.
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@Clown_Syndrome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937206#Comment_3937206
Visionary is far more useful.
Eh, only by virtue of it being passive, imo.
Illumination does more and has better synergies, but neither perk is really all that good as far as I'm concerned. I think both deserve a serious update.
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I'll always go to bat for Illumination not being outright useless. Being able to see the whole gen spread for a single perk activation is not something you can get any other way, and it's not nothing in terms of usefulness.
I would agree that it lacks impact for being a Boon, though. I'd love to see it get a moderate update that more justifies its setup time.
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@francesinhalover said:
Disconnection Penalties
(not in PTB)- Disconnection Penalties are now based on your last 20 matches played.
- Each disconnect in this set of 20 matches counts as a disconnection penalty point.
- Disconnection penalty points decrease as you play matches without disconnecting
(previously decayed at the rate of 1 point per day).
No just no. JUST NO. Why are you forcing me to play 20 matches to reset it? i play like 5 games a week. what??? if i find a cheater or a toxic killer or internet issues i need to do 20 matches to remove the penalty???? whaaat???
Doesn't that just mean you only accrue one extra point if you find another cheater or your internet crashes in the span of the next 20 matches? That only brings your penalty up from one minute to five minutes, as I understand it. Worst case scenario here you just spend some BP or go make a sandwich while you wait it out.
Cheaters and hard internet crashes aren't that common, too, surely?
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I think viewing these things as "playstyles" and not balance issues leads to feeling more jaded and hard-done-by than is really necessary, so I'd probably advise against it.
If you take a step back and look at the game, you'd see that BHVR actually very consistently buff the alternatives to these issues, because any balance buff that comes to the game is geared towards helping killers engage with the game's fundamental mechanics. Any time they buff a killer's basekit, it's a direct boost to that killer's ability to multi-hook, among other things. Same for killer perks, they're all either directly or indirectly geared around what you refer to as "multi-hooking" because that's just the video game Dead By Daylight. Anything we get is intended as a boost to being able to engage with that effectively.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Also, weren't they supposed to revert the Deja Vu changes once they put in the regression limit? Whatever happened to that?
Honestly, I'm willing to bet they just figured they don't need to anymore.
It's not like Deja Vu is causing problems right now. It's a good perk, don't get me wrong, knowing where the 3-gen is at all times is a damn good effect, but it's not the reason gens are flying in anyone's matches.
In addition, I feel like a lot of people forget another very key piece of context, which is that while it was buffed to help against 3-gens… it wasn't actually any good at breaking them if the killer was actually trying to hold them. It ended up being a nice-but-not-overbearing buff to an underrated perk for regular gameplay and not very useful for its supposed purpose, lol.
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It's in this PTB.
Survivors are being forced to spawn all together every time, which means that unless they burn an offering (which admittedly I don't think they should get to have) you will never lose three generators in your first chase without massively misplaying going forward. This is a huge boost to the killer's reliable early game pressure, which in turn cuts down on what some refer to as "genrushing".
I'd still personally like to see toolboxes reworked properly, since even with this change they're unbalanced still (albeit less so), but when it comes to helping killers out with gen efficiency by default, it's been on this roadmap the entire time and everyone's just ignoring it.
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I do agree in theory, but I personally find the short timer can make it hard to reliably capitalise on these scenarios. I've been mulling over making a post suggesting an increase of just five seconds or so, no more than ten for sure. It's already a good perk, it just needs that little bit extra imo.
It's been a staple on my Sadako recently, though. You'd be surprised how many people box themselves in and force the pallet break, and if they don't, I still control the flow of the chase considerably by forcing them to avoid pallets.
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I'm not so sure this is really that much better, but I also don't think this perk should lean into its regression side. Honestly, I think it's time to do away with it being a hybrid at all and lean into it being an information perk first and foremost.
That would still probably require a full rework, but it'd be healthier than trying to bring back passive regression for no effort. Even with the 8-kick limit stopping it from being broken, it's still not great for the game.
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I'm surprised nobody else has pointed this out, but five isn't actually that little for newer perk types?
There are only seven Scourge Hook perks, and that's including the two existing perks that were changed into Scourge Hooks. If we're only counting new releases, there are exactly as many Scourge Hook perks as there are Boon perks.
As to boons themselves, I think people are too quick to dismiss them currently. We have five boons, and three of them are outright good + worth running if you want their effects, that's a pretty damn good hit rate. Sure, Dark Theory and Illumination could use a little boost - and I have some ideas for how to do that myself, though that's a little outside the scope of this post - but the other three are just flat out good perks.
I don't think BHVR really are neglecting them. We haven't gotten a new one in a little while, but that's true of other perk types as well; prior to Houndmaster, the last killer to have a Scourge Hook perk was Sadako, and that's a pretty big gap.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more boons and some buffs for the two undertuned boons as well - especially a new generic boon - but I don't really think the mechanic's being neglected, really. I'd sooner finger Teamwork perks as the neglected archetype, lmfao.
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@Man_of_triangles said:
I'll only list stuff that is big or important enough that it could feasibly be on the radar, and only list the characters in situations in which it wouldn't be obvious to everyone already.
Horror or horror-adjacent Films: The Thing, Friday the 13th, Predator, Jurassic Park, IT/Pennywise, Terminator (I think BHVR may have already written this one off for gameplay reasons, they managed to get it in Deathgarden 7 years ago)
Non-horror films: Darth Vader, I suppose
Horror games: Amnesia (Probably pulling from multiple games, but with a focus mostly on the first game), Clock Tower, System Shock, Dead Space, Fatal Frame, The Last of Us (probably survivors only, but a killer could work if they were willing to use mooks), Parasite Eve (this one would be tricky to license because of mixed rights. They may have to settle for a survivor only)
Non-horror games: Metal Gear (Psycho Mantis), Sephiroth, Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring, something from Blizzard's catalogue, either Warcraft, Starcraft or Diablo.
Anime: Evangelion, with Asuka and Rei as survivors, and Unit 01 as the killer and skins for other Evas (They'd have to shrink the killer to make this one work, but it's worth the payday), Death Note, Berserk, Cyberpunk Edgerunners (this one could be based on the game as well, but I'd rather the survivors be the characters from the anime rather than from the game)
Comics: The Joker could work as a killer, if they gave him a box of fun tricks. Carnage or Venom also fit.
Roleplaying games: Vampire: The Masquerade can work, as long as they pick something that isn't like the Dracula we already have. Easy to license as well.
Bit late to this particular reply, but, if we're going for DC villains I'd sooner peg Scarecrow as a killer that'd fit really well in DBD. Lots of room for creative power stuff.
I'd sooner make Joker a legendary skin for Trickster, myself.
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That doesn't actually happen that often, is the thing.
Kaneki was nerfed, sure, but if we go down the list of recent releases prior to that…
- Houndmaster was buffed multiple times after release, with a few small nerfs here and there
- Dracula's been changed in only two patches post-release, one of which was exclusively buffs (the first one, in fact) and the second of which was half and half — two buffs, two nerfs
- Vecna's received a few changes to cooldowns mostly, most of which were buffs (not counting the current changes obv), with a few nerfs here and there
- Unknown's barely been changed at all, one change and it was a buff (according to the wiki, I actually don't remember this one)
- Chucky could count as a character that got nerfed after release, though it's important to note that also came with buffs every time. Still, power overall went down, so we'll count him as our second killer this actually applies to
- Xeno got a small nerf after release, then a buff-and-nerf patch
You get the point, I won't keep going back further. Killers being noticeably nerfed on release is not common, and most recent killers have gotten buffs after release. You're not actually in serious danger of the killer you paid for being noticeably nerfed… unless the killer's obviously overtuned like Chucky and Kaneki.
It's just live balance stuff, it's not really targeted or biased or anything.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
comparing Hag and Trapper is like comparing Unknown and Huntress tbh.
Bubba is vastly different from Billy. Only similar thing is...chainsaw that doesn't even work the same way.
Og Freddy and Wraith are also conceptually very different.
Clown and Huntress are completely different killers in every aspect.
Spirit with phasing and having to listen to sounds vs. Nurse teleporting, quite a bad comparison.
Ghostface and Myers are also completely different killers in terms of gameplay loop.
Oni has much better traversal than Billy and has to earn his power compared to Billy.
Isn't that the point?
They have similar concepts at play, or similar mechanics in some cases, but their gameplay loop is different enough that it's not actually a problem.
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@Skillfulstone said:
Most of the changes are good. However there are mistakes that were made;
Why oh why did you change the Finisher Mori like this?! The core issue with the Finisher Mori was that it incentivizes slugging for the 4k (slugging the 3rd Survivor before searching for the last, often leading to a player twiddling their thumbs until they bled out). This change does nothing to address that.
This was the perfect occasion to make the Finisher Mori healthy by making it only available if the 4th Survivor was alive and healthy or injured (NOT in the Dying State) when the 3rd Survivor died by sacrifice OR died by Mori OR escapes. This would encourage people to engage with the Hatch race if they want a climactic Finisher Mori but wouldn't prevent people who are playing more competitively (or doing Adepts/challenges requiring 4k) from securing a 4k more easily.
The Go Next Prevention...It's too early to tell, but I'm wary of potential false positives. Does getting tunnelled count as "dying early on purpose"? Does accidentally running into the Killer just after getting off the hook (due to stealth or simply inexperience) and getting hooked again count as trying to go next? Will giving Hatch to your teammate count as going next? Details would be appreciated.
Holding unhooking yourself off a hook behind perks and offerings will remove so many memorable clutch moments in endgame...
The new DC penalty decay method, now based on completed matches rather than time, is rather unclear on what makes a match "complete". Does using the "Abandon" mechanic count as a full match? If the server crashes (a very real concern when the tsunami of new players join the live servers for FNAF) does it count as a DC? Again, details would be appreciated.
The AFK crows collision loss is great, a long-time coming just like the gamma settings but still a great thing.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're drawing here with the finisher mori in particular.
If the finisher mori isn't available when the last survivor is in the dying state, doesn't that just mean you don't get to mori them…? I truly don't understand what you're attempting to convey, legitimately.
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Agreed, I've always found that complaint to be a little overblown.
There's only so many mechanics within DBD, eventually you're gonna find overlap even if we didn't start out that way. That's fine, as long as the killer is fun to play and not just a carbon copy.
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@Kaitsja said:
Having read a lot of the responses here, I'm not sure the message is getting through.
Short term - Tunneling is going to get you wins with little effort.
Long term - You're going to eventually face opponents who are better able to deal with tunneling.
That's about the gist of it, right?
Yep.
That, plus, tunnelling is eventually going to get weaker, inevitably. It's on this roadmap, and if those changes don't make it weaker, that means more changes will come in the future. Long-term, tunnelling has downsides to your experience from those two angles.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932474#Comment_3932474
It's not an imbalance issue because the chances are pretty good that you get to a window or pallet within your 10 seconds of endurance + speed boost, especially if you did the smart thing while on hook and considered where you ought to go next if a teammate performs an unsafe unhook on you.
And even if you don't make it to a pallet or window, so what? You're on a team of 4 people vs 1 and there's a strict time constraint. You can't elevate the way you feel over what's fair in a time-sensitive asymmetrical scenario. You're supposed to understand what you're signing up for before you press the ready button.
You can't have an environment where the survivors are ultra safe, can finish their objective minutes from the start, with only a few killers that can handle it.
How many of these idiot-proof style handholds are going to be installed before DbD transforms from a game into a horror-themed ride? The better question is 'why are people pressuring the devs to do this?'
That's the best case scenario, and it's already kind of questionable. Okay, you've got a good chance of getting to a window or pallet within ten seconds- let's be generous and assume it's a good window or pallet, and not a filler rock loop or a Z window or something.
So, you now are playing a chase where the killer's right on top of you and you're injured, which the killer went out of their way to engineer with zero effort. That's already not great even though you do have a resource, but hey, if it were just that we wouldn't really have a problem, you'd just have the occasional annoying match.
However, what if there isn't a resource nearby? What if the killer is able to bypass your Endurance somehow, what if the killer you're playing against gets to ignore whatever resource you do get to?
At that point, you're just dead, because the killer decided that you don't get to play. It's not "what I feel is fair vs a time constraint", it's something obviously just being unfair and the time constraint not being that relevant because minimising the time constraint is already the killer's job. These hypotheticals aren't one-in-a-million chances, they're very realistic, and the counterplay to these things is locked behind either specific perks (that can be hard to use) or behind coordination (which is borderline impossible in solo queue).
As survivor, when you queue up, you should be willing to get chased and to potentially die. You should also get to expect to actually play and have it not be up to random chance if you get any agency in keeping yourself alive. Tunnelling isn't as bad at stripping away that agency as it used to be, but it's still the biggest obstacle in the way.
Two final points, since this is getting long already.
First, you say survivors can "finish their objectives minutes from the start". I will point out here that their ability to do this is getting a serious nerf in the QoL roadmap, BEFORE any hypothetical anti-tunnel. That's just flat out getting addressed and weakened noticeably, and people keep ignoring that for some reason?
Second, these things are not handholding. They're balance changes. Neither side has really received anything I'd call handholding in the time I've been playing, save for maybe the auto-aim on Singularity? Even then, that's not particularly egregious.
What we have seen is basic gameplay issues get addressed, like solo queue getting significantly less information to the point of it being a detriment, or hatch being a free-win scenario for dedicated teams, or killers being able to stall out regular gameplay via either staring at a survivor on a hook from inches away or by aggressively defending a cluster of generators. These things aren't handholding. -
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932927#Comment_3932927
Burning a Withered Isle offering is still overall survivor-sided, when viewed as a long term strategy, because Garden of Joy is way more survivor-sided than Greenville is killer-sided. And burning a Withered Isle offering still allows survivors a better chance to avoid maps they absolutely don't want, like Haddonfield or Midwich.
Autohaven Wreckers, Springwood, Crotus Prenn Asylum, and The MacMillan Estate, would be an example of what a SWF could burn as a team, where the survivors are trying to avoid bad survivor maps as much as possible.
Sure, but again, we've got to put this in context compared to what it is right now.
Right now, survivors can guarantee actively beneficial maps on their own.
After this change (if it works the way either of us assume), they can almost guarantee not getting a detrimental map, which isn't the same thing, only in a full SWF.
I don't know, a full SWF burning those specific map offerings post-change doesn't seem that scary to me. Autohaven and MacMillan have okay maps in, and I've got a decent enough chance of getting those over Badham or Crotus Prenn. Plus, I'd be able to burn my own offering for an equal chance (compared to theirs cancelling mine now), and I'd still have Sacrificial Ward available. It also doesn't really matter to me how survivor-sided their tactic is long-term, because I'm only facing them in this one game. The chances for that game are the ones that matter, right?
It'd probably be better for the game for map offerings to do something else, but what you're describing doesn't sound that bad to me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932898#Comment_3932898
I think that means that if each survivor brings a separate map offering, they have a 1 - (0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8) = 59% chance that one of their map offerings is picked.
That would still mean the survivor side can still have a map offering they want, over 50% of the time.
You're not necessarily wrong, but I think it's very very relevant that "a map offering they want" has to be split between four map offerings, some of which were made significantly less strong for the survivor side. Sure, they've still got the classic realms with solid maps, but for genuinely survivor sided stuff… it's just Gideon's and Badham they can rely on here, right?
Eyrie and Garden of Joy are still survivor sided, but if they burn those offerings, they might get Dead Sands or Greenville Square, which aren't.
I think this is still a significant improvement even if it does work that way.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932882#Comment_3932882
I mean 4 survivors each being an offering for a different map.
For example, for the sake of discussion, let's pretend a map offering has a 30% chance of occurring. If each survivor in a 4-SWF brings an offering for a different map, would there be…
- A 30% chance that one of the 4 map offerings happens, and a 70% chance that none of the survivor map offerings happens?
- Some whacky math formula like 1 - (0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7) = a 76% chance that one of their map offerings happens?
- Some other math formula, where the survivors collectively get over a 50% chance that one of their map offerings happens?
It was 20% first time they mentioned it, so I would presume there's just a 20% chance of each map offering being rolled, and a 20% chance no map offering is rolled?
If the killer also brings a map offering, I'd assume that would mean the game is guaranteed to be on one of those five realms. That's something worth paying attention to once the PTB drops though, for sure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
"Map offerings no longer stack their effects"
Do we know if this only applies to duplicate map offerings? For example, if 4 survivors each bring a different map offering, do they have a much higher chance than if only 1 survivor brought a map offering?
Do you mean duplicates of the same offering, or survivors each bringing an offering for a different map?
Duplicates of the same offering are what they mean here, based on how they talked about this the first time it was mentioned.
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@upsideinsanity said:
My quick thoughts -
Go next prevention: for the most part, I have no issues with this except the second to last survivor should have the ability unlocked to try and 4% when the last survivor is either in chase, stealthing for hatch or, in most cases, slugged for the mori. I also do not trust this "system" that is put in place. I see it handing out incorrect DC penalties incorrectly especially since people are already getting DC penalties when they abandon. Putting this system in place as well as removing the ability to 4% is a bit overkill and is going to cause more issues than fix.
Mori update: you are just encouraging slugging for the 4k even further. I would still like to see the difference in slugging stats to before the finisher mori update to now, and now youre pushing it even further. At least there are currently (very) few matches where the killer does not slug for the 4k. That is going to be completely gone especially with the patch change to the abandon today. And here we thought you were trying to correct the slugging meta.Map offering: I still do not see the point of this. If someone doesnt want to get sent to maps, they bring a sac ward which was also just made a common item not too long ago. If sac wards are not getting changed, just remove them completely. I dont want to waste BP on an offering that is actually 100% useless now.
Spawn rules: With this being implemented, lethal pursuer needs a complete overhaul. Lethal on a high mobility S-tier killer (nurse, billy, blight) is going to be an automatic quick win for the killer. You are handing already strong killers a free 4-man slug at 5 gens. And here we thought you were trying to correct the slugging meta.
If anything, doesn't this mori change actually incentivise not slugging for the 4k?
That survivor being on the ground means you can't mori and you're vulnerable to an unexpected Unbreakable or an unlucky hatch spawn. That survivor being on the hook means you can just find the other survivor and mori them, with the only risk being that the hooked survivor dies and the survivor you're searching for finds hatch.
I don't see how this could possibly encourage slugging more than it already is, if you could clarify I'd be very interested.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932580#Comment_3932580
Lose collision for how long? Killers already chase unhooked survivors and wait out the endurance timer. If the timer last too long then the survivor can troll. Think old Freddy where awake survivors still affect M1 aiming.
That'd need to be tested, but I think fifteen seconds would probably strike a good balance?
Enough time to use the Haste to make distance if the killer's trying to wait it out, but short enough that a survivor lingering to be annoying will still be vulnerable soon enough.
Again, that's outside the scope of this post for the most part, though.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932389#Comment_3932389
Tunneling is nothing new and the game has been around for a long time. The reality is you cannot stop it and neither can bhvr without making the survivor invincible which we've already seen the result of. DS used to make survivors invincible. They could repair a gen right in front of you without worry. If you grab them you get stabbed. That's the kind of stuff that happens when you remove the ability to "tunnel".
Well, the first argument applies either way, but for the record I don't actually think it's impossible to fix tunnelling. Honestly, I don't even think it'd be that hard?
If it were me, this is what would be on a PTB to test: When unhooked, survivors lose collision instead of gaining Endurance, alongside the basic Haste. Both last a little longer, both cancel on Conspicuous Action, and survivors can't use items until the effect disappears.
Fixes tunnelling, can't be abused, everyone wins.
Either way, BHVR are planning on weakening tunnelling, and have been trying to this whole time. There's a good chance they'll eventually succeed.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932545#Comment_3932545
We'll be keeping a close eye on community feedback through the PTB, so if you have a chance, definitely give those buffs a try in-game and if you're still feeling concerned, let us know and we can pass along the feedback 😀
I'll definitely be doing that, don't you worry. Some of these are perks I already like running - especially Machine Learning, Botany Knowledge, and Champion of Light - so while the logical part of me is concerned at the buffs… oohhh I wanna see my favourite toys get shinier…
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Those are some potentially scary perks slated to be buffed, dang. I'll hold off on real panic until I see the patch notes, but some of those perks are already damn good and the prospect of buffing them is a little scary.
Love to see the BP bulk spending though, that looks pretty much perfect to me!
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932522#Comment_3932522
Your post is titled "IF YOU PLAY KILLER", which means you're making a huge blanket statement for all killers.
I then go on to clarify multiple times what context my statements are relevant to. I do believe this to be true overall of the killer role, but I respect some people have different priorities to me.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932474#Comment_3932474
Tunneling is in my best interests because it works now. And if it does get nerfed, then I'll just adapt to whatever becomes the optimal strategy. Seriously, I'll adapt to whatever meta the game turns into. That is what I do in the other PvP games I play, and it's fine.
Your logic is also wrong, because you're assuming everyone wants easy games. I purposely try to keep my MMR number as high as possible, so I can have the harder games. So yes, I really should tunnel.
Genuinely, I don't want to be rude, but is it even worth me continuing to repeat that if you don't care about the reasoning I laid out then the advice isn't for you? It seems like nobody's listening to that.
If you want to tunnel for harder games and you're willing to adapt if and when it's nerfed properly, this post isn't aimed at you.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932490#Comment_3932490
Sometimes you get into situations in this game that are simply bad luck. Sometimes you get off the Hook, the Killer is patrolling, sees you, goes to smack the unhooker, and hits you and decides to waste not want not. Sometimes, you go to heal in a corner and the Killer simply finds you. Sometimes you mistime the Deliverance and mistakenly unhook too close to the Killer. It happens. The game is unpredictable that way.
That isn't bad luck, though. That's the killer intentionally leveraging a basekit unbalance and you not being able to do something about it.
The killer intentionally targeting you because you're at a severe disadvantage isn't the same as the killer stumbling across you while you're trying to heal.
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My biggest answer is always Taylor Hebert/Skitter from the Parahumans franchise as killer. She's perfect for the role, despite being the protagonist of her story.
Worm isn't strictly a horror franchise directly, but it is a story that directly plays on horrifying ideas and disquieting situations, so it'd fit as well as the other horror-adjacent properties DBD's accrued over the years.
Outside of that, I'd like to see Regina from Dino Crisis as a survivor, that game deserves more respect.
Branching out to cosmetics, we already had Iron Maiden as a collection, and I'd love to see a similar thing for Alice Cooper. Very fitting artist to represent, I think.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932394#Comment_3932394
well at that point that's the unhookers fault for not bodyblocking or in the usual case when the unhooked starts blocking me when i'm going after the unhooker because they have endurance. to clarify i have done this as survivor too and have gotten re-hooked because of it
I mean, what if they can't?
Being able to bodyblock for the teammate who just got unhooked is pretty dependant on the killer not being able to easily go around you. It's a very situational counter for a very universal tactic on the killer side, and if it doesn't work out, the killer gets massive value.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
I mean, you're just wrong on both counts. Firstly, tunneling strategically IS a fundamental. Second, tunneling is not unbalanced just because you personally don't like facing it.
See above. This isn't about what I like facing, and I have actual reasons for saying it's unbalanced.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932297#Comment_3932297
Well I'm re-reading it, and it definitely boils down to "taking the path of least resistance is bad, learn better 'skill' instead."
It's misleading advice to try to get killers to "tunnel" less.
The OP was answered with an example and explanation. It's hard to argue that posts like this don't crop up largely because of all the complaints about getting caught again and the crooked, anger-driven insistence that it's an imbalanced issue (in complete ignorance of the time constraint against the killer).
It is an imbalance issue. I'm coming at this from the killer perspective, so you know it's not driven by anger or annoyance from having to deal with it, and it's pretty plain to see as far as I'm concerned.
If a killer chases someone as soon as they're unhooked, that survivor starts the chase injured, directly next to the killer, and with a good likelihood of not being near resources. It takes no effort or skill for the killer to stack the chase heavily in their favour, and it takes considerable effort and skill to beat them.
On its face, that's pretty obviously unbalanced. I don't see a way around that. Equally, if you rely on leveraging something unbalanced too heavily, you won't know how to play without it, and you'll have a harder time after a certain point.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932264#Comment_3932264
chase is heavily stacked in the killers favor?
no not really chase is completely dependent on survivors skill and how competent survivors are at doing gens since a good survivor can run for 3+ gens in the first chase and a bad survivor goes down in 30 seconds
Tunnelling makes the chase heavily stacked in the killer's favour. Regular chases are closer to equal, favouring survivor on some maps.
Remember, if you're chasing someone that was just unhooked, that survivor starts the chase injured and directly next to you. That's two huge elements of chase tilted in your favour.
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@Mr_K said:
Speaking of long term when the game is over 9 years old.
Yeah?
It doesn't look like it's dying any time soon, you still have the ability to think about your long term results.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Killers trying to win as efficiently as possible: “no skill”, “toxic”, “trash”, “bad sportsmanship”, “git gud”
Survivors trying to win as efficiently as possible: “just doing their objective”, “you want to punish people for playing with their friends” (SWF on comms)
Killer players - play however you want and don’t feel bad about it. It’s only fair because that’s what so many on the survivor side demand for themselves. The only people who are going to get mad at you are survivor-only players who would get curb-stomped if they ever tried playing killer themselves.
I feel like a broken record, but this post is not aimed at shaming or judging killer players. I am also a killer player. I'm making an argument that is wholly divorced from how survivor players will feel about you or your gameplay.
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932196#Comment_3932196
If You Play SWF Is Against Your Best InterestsSomeone else already tried that one, friend.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931674#Comment_3931674
Well then you admit that the killer is on a time clock that pressures him into focusing out certain survivors, which taken to its extreme (or most optimal) is just tunneling.
Edit: Oh wait, you didn't even get that far. You just think simply seeing other survivors and then going for them one by one is gonna cause team-wide massive pressure. I had a lot more to say, but no, I'm done.
…Again, why are you assuming this isn't strategic and purposeful?
If you're playing properly well, then you'll already know (or strongly suspect) where all the survivors are, and you'd choose the one that'd cause the most damage to the survivor team, like going towards any gen with two survivors on, or going to a survivor on a central gen, or a survivor that's already injured, whatever.
It's not just "see survivor, walk to survivor, don't think about it".
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932185#Comment_3932185
Oh, that's a reminder about where the terminology "tunneling" spawned from.
As for the relevance check: The OP was written from the angle of "catching the same survivor consecutively is bad" was it not?
To clarify: The points you're making in the OP aren't actually valid.
1.) The Fundamentals of playing killer are about understanding and executing actions that ultimately stop the survivors from escaping and lead them into death. Nobody's growth as a killer is "stunted" by taking the path of least resistance if the opportunity presents itself. Killers are supposed to exploit the mistakes of survivors and a skilled killer is a master of this.
2.) Hooking the same survivor consecutively is unpopular, but not unbalanced due to the time constraint of generator speeds. Generator completion speeds can be harsh. The time a killer has to make a difference against seasoned survivors is very short, thus tactics like "tunneling" for faster eliminations and "slugging" to create more time and pressure are employed (These tactics started and persist because of fast completion speeds).
With exhaustion perks, inapposite second chances, resource distribution and varied killer power levels, the entire thing is extremely messy, and as such, a consistently comfortable hooking rotation is a pipedream at best.
Even with possible incoming deterrents, there's not much sense in trying to convince killer players to adopt such a bizarre sense of one-way etiquette in an environment where they'll probably lose the game if they do (unless they play an S-tier character).
I mean… no?
The OP was written from the perspective of "Relying on the easier chase that comes from chasing someone who just got unhooked can be harmful in the long run".
Remember, this isn't a complaint. It's advice, from one killer player to others.
I'll grant that I should've clarified that tunnelling in this context is just that, only chasing survivors who were just unhooked, but otherwise you're presenting the post in a heavily skewed way, and your initial comment still doesn't reflect even that view whatsoever.
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Surely if a ranked mode would be implemented, that would be where you'd expect to see 4-man squads more often?
That's the far more competitive way of playing DBD. The horror atmosphere already wouldn't matter for ranked mode, that's self-evidently not why anyone would queue for a ranked mode - they'd be taking it seriously and trying to win, not playing immersed - and I'd personally argue it'd be much more realistically easy to balance if 4-man squads are encouraged instead of disbarred.
For example, in ranked mode you could introduce features that would be tremendously awful for the main game, like restricting loadouts to only one copy of each perk per team, just as an example. That'd balance SWF stacking perks, promote careful thought and strategising prior to a match, and allow the game to play out in a competitive environment where everyone's on the ball and coordinated.
Enforcing solos and duos would just make ranked mode really hard for survivor and noticeably easier for killer on average, surely?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932242#Comment_3932242
All of those things I listed, including camping, tunneling, and slugging, should be
situationallyused. And it's a measure of player skill, game sense, and game knowledge to understand when those situations arise.And once people
dolearn to use more of the tools available to them, they naturally become better players. Which I believe was mainly the point OP is making here regarding "fundamentals".but the problem here is that game doesn't have proper matchmaking nor is average player willing to punish killer for instantly locking into the match with intention to apply these strats right from the start.
When you have a lot of successful matches bruteforcing specific strategy against not very good opponents, you will build this mindset up.
Matchmaking needs to improve, drastically. This way this type of killer players will evolve into actually being aware of when they actually can tunnel, camp or slug because they will definitely not be able to bruteforce these strats every match again at all.
Matchmaking would only make tunnelling consistently punishable at higher levels, though.
The whole point of tunnelling is that the chase is heavily stacked in the killer's favour and the survivor team needs either coordination or pretty significant skill in chase to overcome it. Matchmaking being more consistent wouldn't help lower or mid ranked matches with tunnelling at all.
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Personally I think the best way to handle this would be to steadily add voicelines to more older characters, but also make them toggleable for all characters, since I know some people get annoyed by the voicelines we already have and avoid those characters because of it.
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@Nathan13 said:
tunneling is the best way to win if you’re an M1 killer, that also goes for camping and slugging because if you never do them than you’re playing killer wrong.
I feel I addressed that pretty well in the post. Did you disagree with any of the reasoning?
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@TimberGoingDown said:
This is the only pvp community where one side gets hate for… trying to win the game?
This post isn't about complaints and it isn't about policing people, I'm just giving advice as a fellow killer.
Though, I feel like most PvP communities will have people getting mad at the cheap stuff, especially cheap stuff that's actually unbalanced.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
#########? It's been 8 months since she got nerfed, and you guys are still in the CONCEPT phase? Seriously?
Considering what the concept is, that's a good thing.
Pushing this to a PTB without checking would've been disastrous.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931709#Comment_3931709
Uh, no.
That's definitely a direct response to the OP from the POV of a Ghostface main.
Run around with a knife, legs and nothing else for a week in standard matches and ignore/chase players you find based on hooking order and you might start to understand just how silly and entitled the complaints about "tunneling" really are.
If it's a response to the post, what's the back half where you talk about entitled survivors all about?
You're doing it here, too, talking about tunnelling complaints. How's that relevant?
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931533#Comment_3931533
it dumb but they saying that if they in a SWF group they always be in SWF group (become dependent) never play solo so they never have to improve so the game wont be hard for them.
but your right SWF is advantage like camping and tunneling not really but they can do something about camping and tunneling(not really).
and the dev can't do anything about swf on comm.
so were at a loss.
Close, but I'm actually saying the way you'd play in a SWF won't stop working out for you unless you consciously choose to stop playing in a SWF. Compare that to tunnelling, which if you rely on it too much, will make your games harder without you needing to change anything at all.
For a killer equivalent to that concept, consider Nurse. If you only ever play Nurse, you are building specific skills and you are improving, but what you're learning won't translate to playing Trapper, who needs much more M1 fundamental knowledge and a lot more macro map knowledge than Nurse does.
That doesn't mean playing Nurse stunts your growth, though. Sure, hypothetically you'd have a more complete understanding of the game if you also learned Trapper… but that's only a problem for you if you actually want to play any killer other than Nurse. If you stick with Nurse (or SWF), you won't start seeing problems. Stick with tunnelling, and you will.
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@tyler_oxide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932003#Comment_3932003
Well they can be near the action until they get broken with basekit shattered hope. Then they are not near the action since the killer spent precious time going and snuffing it. Since the boon can reach literally half the map of RPD and takes 1 minute to locate and snuff, let's look at implementing this.
Yes. They're near the action until they get broken, so the boon mechanic has been completely deleted from the game. The mechanic's intention no longer functions.
There is an olive branch I can show you here. Boons breaking when they're snuffed is a non-starter, it doesn't make any sense. What you're clearly more annoyed at is maps like RPD, though, so let me ask you a question.
Would boons take anywhere near as long to snuff relative to how much time survivors get to benefit from them if they didn't go through multiple floors? If in order for survivors to benefit from the boon, it has to be as close and easy to access for the killer as it would be on other maps?
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@tyler_oxide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931996#Comment_3931996
In my opinion they should not. The killer might as well not snuff it at all since the time to set it up by one of four survivors is nothing compared to the time taken for a killer, particularly on problematic maps. They are niche, yes, but can be problematic when you cannot afford to snuff it out - especially when it simply gets re-booned.
There are 5 totems in the map. Why is it a problem that the survivor simply goes to the next totem to boon it? At least then they are limited to 5 and you have got the most problematic totems out of the way if the match necessitates it.
It doesn't really work like that.
There are five totems, but the only boon that works regardless of which totem it's put on is Circle of Healing, and maybe Illumination if you don't want to use it more than once.
Totems need to be near the action for boons to function, because they're designed to be a back-and-forth. If the totem near the action is snuffed, on many maps you have one, maybe two spots left. On some you have zero.
They're not mapwide, and only two work without the killer nearby. They're not designed to work this way.