jesterkind
jesterkind
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910553#Comment_2910553
Well, the devs have shown they don't understand how to fix it, because they don't understand WHY it's broken.
- Give it charges. Once <x> amount of healing is done in it; it snuffs on it's own.
- Give it limited uses; once that Survivor has Booned with CoH <x> amount of times; CoH no longer activates when Booning.
Isn't there merit to the idea that the perks should all follow the same rules, though?
Certainly, I'm sympathetic to the idea that maybe CoH must necessarily break that tradition, but I also think it's fair for any dev team to hesitate before implementing that kind of exception.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910415#Comment_2910415
which leads into the idea of continual slowdown that boons are designed around.
Except CoH returns so much time in heal-speed (and being a 5th perk) that it is not a slowdown to have to place it again.
Also keep in mind that Survivors dictate how long a game goes on for; the faster they can do gens, the shorter the game. And if the Killer has to go snuff a boon because it's giving Survivors a time bonus to all heals, then that Killer is not chasing someone or pressuring gens.
ALSO keep in mind; 1 Survivor can boon while 3 do gens, thereby still doing their objective while Booning. Whereas, as I said above; a Kilelr snuffing a totem is NOT chasing Survivors or pressuring gens.
All that together means that it's literally in a Survivor's best interest to boon, while a Killer is screwed if they snuff (not pressuring gens) or don't snuff (allow Survivors to make up lost time via faster heals).
That is why Circle of Healing is broken to the point that I can't think the devs who added it have ANY idea how the game plays. It's clearly broken in every aspect when you point out how it interacts with the game. It's a lose/lose for Killers, with 0 drawbacks for using it for Survivors.
Yep- exactly.
CoH is broken because it shatters the intended purpose of boons, breaks the established rules that the other three have as standard, and provides far, far too much value for the downsides that it has. Its upcoming nerf will alleviate that a little, but I still think it needs a little work.
This reads like you're disagreeing with me, so just to be abundantly clear - I was talking about boons in that message, not Circle of Healing specifically.
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NOED being removed wouldn't really achieve anything either way, so that's an extremely raw deal for survivors lmao.
Still, from a purely selfish mindset, absolutely I'd be alright with that. The removal of the single most OP perk in the game, and all ""my side"" gives up is a mediocre, inconsistent noob stomper? That's a damn good deal.
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@Pika_Belle said:
Remember old undying and the complaints of the survivors having to cleanse multiple totems... Then behavior nerf it? And then give UNLIMITED totems to survivors. But it's OK just snuff it.... Wasn't OK to just cleanse totems for them though
Since hexes are designed around being broken permanently and boons are designed specifically not to be, yes, that is actually okay and isn't hypocritical or an instance of double standards.
For starters, when old Undying made survivors cleanse multiple totems, the effects of the associated hex were still plaguing them. When a killer snuffs a boon, the effects are disabled until it's set back up again, which leads into the idea of continual slowdown that boons are designed around.
It's very important to remember that boons and hexes are not directly comparable, at all. They're different mechanics for different purposes with different design and different requirements for balance.
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Considering the Early Game Collapse was a specific idea that they shared too early before realising that it wouldn't work, and their grind overhaul is a general concept that could be achieved multiple ways, no.
They're not gonna stop working on an idea to fix the grind. It just might change multiple times before we get to see it.
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@VIle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909285#Comment_2909285
Introduce the ability to turn in game chat off and on. BOOM. Problem solved. it's not like DBD has voice chat, you don't HAVE to listen. BHVR doesnt give the proper tools for players to make their own decisions.
Well, there should be the ability to engage in the chat without risking people being vile, immature freaks at you, but in fairness I don't really think chat censors are that effective in that regard anyway.
The solution, from my perspective, has more to do with penalties for toxic players and encouragements to avoid that kind of behaviour. Still, a proper chat censor wouldn't be that big of a deal- if the chat censor in-game was the same as the one on these forums, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Especially if it were optional.
Regardless. The bottom line, the censor has nothing to do with this being a game for adults. Those two things aren't related, that's my point.
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The point of a chat censor has nothing to do with the age of the playerbase, it's to stop harassment and toxicity where possible. This game's chat censor is bad not because it exists, but because for some reason it was designed to censor more than just curse words, slurs, and common aggressive phrasing.
To be clear; the point of a chat censor in any game that isn't explicitly aimed at kids is the same, it's not to protect the delicate eyes of its players from any naughty words. It's to try and curtail just how viciously awful someone can be to another person over text.
(Also all chat censors in adult-aimed games should be optional, in my opinion.)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909135#Comment_2909135
Small issue though with that. It doesn't prioritize speeds " a little".
This isn't a case of, "Oh, well, they probably shouldn't have been in this game, but they weren't too far off." This is very clearly a new player playing against someone with thousands of hours.
This means that there is a HUGE issue with player distribution. If players who have thousands of hours are sitting in 10 minute queues to play against brand new Killers, that means there's a shortage of Killers who play at said skill level.
Well, to be fair, if it were a case of "they probably shouldn't be in this game but they weren't too far off", we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, because there wouldn't be a problem. I know I have a tendency to use measured language, but trust me, I'm fully aware that this is a big problem.
I'm not sure it does prove that player distribution is the problem though, necessarily. We know the player distribution changes pretty dramatically at different times, in different areas, in different times of the year, etc etc, and this is a pretty persistent problem from what I've been hearing. Of course, it's hard to tell without access to BVHR's data, so either option is a possibility- maybe both at once, even.
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Obligatory reminder that boons aren't hexes and shouldn't be directly compared to them.
Beyond that, though, I do agree that CoH was pretty obviously overpowered from the get-go, even without considering the oversight on the PTB that let them stack if two overlapped. The idea of a "healing station" makes sense at first blush, but considering the direction they went with boons otherwise, it really obviously ends up chafing with the design and intent of the mechanic- the other three require the killer nearby too, but CoH doesn't. The other three have balanced (if frankly underpowered) effects to compensate for the continual-slowdown durability, but CoH doesn't. The other three synergise well enough with one another that a survivor could risk stacking most of their perks on one snuffable totem.... but CoH doesn't.
That said, when it comes to nerfing it, while I do think more should be done with the perk itself (more restrictions specifically on self-heal would be a good place to look) I also want there to be a cap (hard or soft) on heal speeds in general. Part of the problem with CoH is how aggressively it stacks with other sources of healing speed, that should be looked at imo.
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They don't allow it, they're having a hard time preventing it. There's a difference between those two things.
Regardless, as someone else said, it's because the system prioritises speed a little too much in certain situations.
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I mean, they just finished Haddonfield. Presumably, work on another map rework will start at some point after that, it feels like the kind of job where you want to focus on one at a time.
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It's kind of a reductive framing, don't you think?
There are some problem areas on the survivor side (as there are on the killer side too), but it's not particularly helpful to say "survivor needs a nerf", since that's not really actionable. Gen speeds, healing speeds, spawn logic, the strength of specific perks, that's stuff that can be a little more constructive and actionable but "survivor" isn't really something that can be tweaked itself, it's just one role of the game.
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It depends on what you mean by defending it. If it's about the way the number is calculated, that part is incredibly standard and normal, and there's no reason to assume it's not working/inappropriate for the game.
If it's about the actual state of people's matching, there are people who've had a better time with MMR than the grade system, so they could just be arguing from that perspective. I'm one of them, my games have been way more consistent since MMR's introduction, but I respect others have different experiences there.
A third, completely separate layer is when people have to be reminded that "sweaty games", "meta builds", and "tryhards" aren't matchmaking problems, they're balance problems.
So, yeah, it kinda depends on the context of the defence.
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My major genre is roguelikes, for sure, I've racked up like 6000 hours across a handful of different roguelikes. I've never found a game in DBD's general vibe that is anywhere close to as good as DBD is, but I'm always open to discovering a new one...
I tend to be pretty varied, though. I hoard free games from various sources, so I've always got something I can take a look at. Recently, it's been Risk of Rain 2, which I heartily recommend to any roguelike fans!
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While it is annoying, I'm not sure how the game would be able to differentiate between a crash and a ragequit?
You have my sympathy, though, that does sound annoying.
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@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907587#Comment_2907587
Your reasoning is amazing. Almost as amazing as the flawless plan to under-power Killers so they don’t ruin the fun of Solo Players who get bullied by SWF.
I disagree with you and your reasoning, using my own logic and reasoning. If the reason we can’t have balance is because of a lack of communication. Add the option, balance the game. Simple~
Right, but if the problem we have is a lack of communication, adding in an option that a huge portion of players cannot use to communicate doesn't fix that problem.
BHVR's suggestion would fix the problem more effectively, because it doesn't require sharing a language OR your teammates actually sharing what they're doing actively for you to have that information. If they implemented that action-icon concept with a few other changes like seeing your teammate's loadout in-game, that'd do dramatically more to shrink the gap between SoloQ and SWF. Some disparity will always exist, but that'd get it much closer to equal than voice comms a huge swath of people would get no benefit from.
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@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907576#Comment_2907576
Sounds like having the OPTION to communicate and ABILITY to communicate is not the fault of BHVR. You add it in, tell everyone to STFU and turn it off if you didn’t like what you hear and balance the game around SWF. EZ
...Again, the thing that's causing problems is a lack of consistent, standarised information. Adding in voice comms doesn't solve that problem, for the reasons that I laid out.
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@Hi_Im_Chucky said:
Don’t other games have in game voice communication? If you just add that then you would be choosing to ignore free info if you turn it off and we can finally balance for SWF.
your welcome.
Language barrier.
That's important here where it isn't in other games because the lack of available information is actually causing problems, so the solution must make sure everyone has that information, not just people who are lucky enough to load into a lobby where everyone speaks the same language AND feels willing to talk AND won't get flamed for their voice being feminine AND isn't polluting the voice comm with their music tastes or the sound of chewing...
BHVR's suggestion for the action-icon thing is a genuinely good one, and it can't come soon enough.
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It's evoking her birdlike qualities, the same as her elongated limbs, jittering head-bob motions, and cawing.
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There's something about Trapper that turns people's brains off, I swear. I have had situations where I down someone from a trap, reset that trap, and then pick up the downed survivor... right in time to hear the snap of that same trap being walked into by a teammate coming for a save, twice.
Never had a situation where I'm blamed for it, though, that's wild.
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I like this! Good idea, it keeps the hook positions dynamic and changing instead of forcing the killer to play as much around a specific area as they can.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Alright so I like some of these, let’s go through them:
Bitter Murmur: Honestly, sure. I don’t know if it really needs the buff, but I wouldn’t be against it.
Cruel Limits: The issue is that it doesn’t do anything if the killer is on the other side of the map from the gen, and doesn’t do much regardless on certain maps where there are far more pallets than windows (and this is a problem for perks like crowd control as well). On the other hand, extending it to pallets as well could leave the survivor without any real counterplay option if they do finish a gen near the killer. One idea I had was to flip it around and make it block windows a certain distance AWAY from the generator instead, but I would need to see this in action - I’m not sure that’s actually much better. Alternatively it could also just be blocking windows within a certain distance from the killer’s position at that time.
100% agree on deerstalker, distressing, and mindbreaker.
NOED: The screaming idea isn’t too bad. What I proposed before was making it have an activation requirement like NWO to trigger exposed, but it also gets smaller, less impactful effects at lower amounts of tokens. In return for the activation requirement, the added effects would make it be stronger at full power than it is now.
Thrill of the Hunt: I agree that it being a hex and also getting weaker prior to being cleansed is redundant. I do think it should be a hex though, and just shouldn’t have tokens anymore. It will slow down all cleansing and blessing by a flat penalty until it is cleansed.
Iron Grasp: I agree with the idea posted above protecting the killer from pallet saves while carrying, but I would add that to the current effect rather than replace it.
Surge: Agree 100%. Let it work on any down and it’s perfect. The 40s cooldown and 32m range is fine.
Monstrous Shrine: While I like the idea of changing it to a scourge hook, I don’t like the idea of making basement any more powerful, but that’s just because I think the basement in general is unhealthy design.
Sloppy Butcher: Agree, perk is fine. I’ve seen some suggestions to make it work with special attacks and honestly I don’t think it’s necessary.
Spies: I actually think this perk is terrible. It’s ok for new players to teach them about crows, but beyond that it’s not very good. I like the idea proposed above to prevent the killer from disturbing crows, but it might still need a bit more. But that would at least make it a bit better.
Unrelenting: Not a bad idea, but Nemesis already does that AND makes the survivor oblivious unless they were already the obsession.
Whispers: Agree, perk is fine.
God, I completely forgot about Nemesis. Yeah, that idea does cannibalise a little bit...
I'm sure I'll come up with something better later on down the line for it. Regarding Cruel Limits, though, wouldn't the problem of not helping the killer if they're across the map from the gen be somewhat alleviated by every gen blocking windows?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Spies should prevent the killer from disturbing crows.
That's not a bad idea, I like it!
I'm assuming that's in addition to its current effect, anyway.
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@JosephN said:
I disagree with your sentiment about iron grasp. I think iron grasp truly needs a rework. I don't think there should be a perk in the game that is simply outclassed entirely by another perk. Iron grasp is just a worse agitation, and premonition is a worse spinechill, and all perks like this where they perform like weaker versions of other perks should be changed. For Iron grasp specifically, I'd rework it so that instead of carrying longer with less wiggle effect, take more inspiration from the perk's name. The perk could make it so that the killer cannot be stunned by another survivor to free the carried survivor (with the IRON GRASP, the killer doesn't let go). In this way it'd be a niche perk to use for people that want to counter swf's or pallet save in general, similar to lightborne, but whereas lightborne protects against flashlights, iron grasp would protect against head on stuns and pallet drops when carrying survivors.
While you're not entirely wrong, I think that there's more room for "strictly weaker than other perks" when it's generic vs teachable. Premonition is such a problem because the better version is also a generic perk, whereas Iron Grasp serves as something everyone can use even if there's something better they could grind for, or get if they want to play Trapper.
There are also way better slowdown and tracking perks available than what's in the generic pool, but they require investing in getting some teachables.
Still, I wouldn't mind seeing an Iron Grasp rework along those lines, necessarily. I just don't think the perk is currently really a huge problem.
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The win condition of the game?
It's not really a case of 'belief', the game has a win condition. For survivor, you win if you escape, and for killer, you win if you get at least three kills. The only point of ambiguity that's ever existed is whether a 3k counts for killer or if it had to be a 4k, and I personally lean towards a 3k counting.
Now, the question of what should count as a high-score win for a progression system like the grade system is another question, and I don't have a super good answer for that- though I do think our current emblem requirements are a bit too specific and restrictive. There is, of course, also the layer of the personal win which will differ from player to player.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905229#Comment_2905229
Couldnt they have just applied an ms penalty dropping the gun? It not rocket science.
Of course they could have, among a million other changes that would've been better than what we got. At no point in this thread have I actually defended his current state. But your suggestion agrees with my actual point, which is that there was something wrong that warranted fixing.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905211#Comment_2905211
Exhausted on the floor was gone well before validation.
The timeline was this:
- exhausted on the floor,
- then changed so that you would be only momentarily exhausted and then being immediately refunded,
- to then not being exhausted at all and simply skipping the falling animation aka sliding on the floor,
- Validation
- Now back to sliding on the floor
And it's no use repeating it's lag. Of course, it's lag. That's what caused it in the first place and which they tried to fix it with validation. The point is that validation has been nerfed and the effect of lag is apparent again.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905126#Comment_2905126
Nobody said blindly itt. The devs hammer on statistics frequently. Of course, they value the numbers. It's one of the parameters.
But in the case of Dead Hard, the only way you could come to the conclusion that they're not going to make any further changes at all is if you think they only look at what the stats reflect.
We know that isn't the case. We know perks that just 'feel' awful to go against still get changed even when the data and stats don't reflect them overperforming.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904487#Comment_2904487
Yes, I agree, because survivors do have input in chase against him! It felt good taking him on a long chase but still going down anyway, because I knew he was weak but had potential. But now that he's been nerfed he has no potential. Why does nobody value killer viability? You would think that since Nurse and Blight are the only viable ones, the others would be left alone. But no, we need to nerf the weaker killers as well so there's even less variety. People might be able to humor using non-S tier killers at the top level just for fun because there's a small chance they'll win, but they'll just stop trying that once they realize it's pointless. Survivors can beat almost every killer in chase simply through memorization of how to run loops, and Deathslinger came close to countering that. That's unhealthy design though, can't have that!
So, we're going to glide past everything in that message about killer viability or the current state of Deathslinger, because none of that is even slightly relevant to the point at hand. I agree that he currently needs work since the nerfs, while justified, weren't offset well enough and he feels clunky to play. No arguments there.
So, moving on: Survivors did have input in the chase, except for when he decided to employ the ADS fake quickscope tactic. In those scenarios, even when you're lucky enough to actually have something to break line of sight (which isn't a guarantee), you basically have two options; run straight and thus be an incredibly easy target, or juke side to side and thus lose distance, allowing him to catch up for an M1. That's bad design. Both of your major options will lead to getting hit, and your only hope is for the Deathslinger to miss.
Did that make him OP? God no, he was a weak killer before and he's a weak killer now- his strength hasn't even changed that much, he just feels awful now. But what it did make him was unhealthy.
None of this is a defence of his current state, but we gain nothing from pretending that there weren't serious, real issues to be corrected with how he was before. Survivors need agency in the chase, and Deathslinger denied that agency- not in the situational way, like how some killers can engineer specific situations where a survivor can't avoid getting hit, but in the sense that all he required was to be in chase and he could guarantee a hit.
Yes, it required skill, but there are more things that matter in game balance than whether something requires skill. You weren't outplaying your opponent when you used the ADS fake quickscope tactic, because your opponent didn't have any input in the situation.
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I genuinely don't understand why so many people think BHVR blindly follow stats for their balancing when that clearly isn't true and hasn't been for a while.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/315338/what-do-you-think-sadako-needs
The problem is that her kit has almost no synergy, and the three individual components are all lacking in isolation.
All she has going for her is sporadic, RNG traversal.
If I was going to fix her, I'd:
- Make Old Newspaper, Clump of Hair and Watch baseline. Give these addons new effects. If a brown is anywhere near your BIS addon, it should probably be baseline.
- Change Condemn completely. Make it Exposed with a longer KI, allowing the mori on the final hook (PH style). However, make it so that survivors passively gain Condemn if they are near an 'on' TV and increase the rate of gain substantially.
- Change TV spawn logic so that they aren't in/facing useless spots.
- When Sadako emerges from a TV, she gains her phasing for 5 seconds.
That should bring her up to low/mid 'B' tier.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2862756#Comment_2862756
I'd disagree with the 'pretty good' part. She's outclassed by nearly every other killer in the game in almost every single way.
Her addons suck.
Her stealth sucks.
Her traversal is decent, but extremely RNG (she's sort of a worse Demogorgon).
Her 1v1 is pathetic and her very weak secondary objective means her 1v4 isn't great either.
She needs a hefty buff to even be mid tier.
In order:
- She has quite a few decent addons, so I don't understand that point. It'd actually be closer to accurate to call her addon dependant, but it's the less-bad version of being addon dependant since she has quite a few viable ones and just suffers if you don't bring any at all; she's not old Trapper, she doesn't require a specific addon.
- She's short, has on-demand Undetectable, and is invisible like a third of the time when up close. I wouldn't necessarily say her stealth is better than any other stealth killer (except Pig's, she has better stealth than Pig, but that's not hard), but it's definitely perfectly serviceable. I'm not sure what about it is even supposed to suck, it doesn't really have a huge weakness that doesn't apply to any other form of basekit stealth?
- People keep saying her traversal is RNG and I'm not sure why- it's no more RNG than Freddy's teleport, and it's way quicker + can be used multiple times in quick succession. Comparing her to Demogorgon unfavourably is also... extremely, blatantly, obviously wrong? Her teleport is way quicker, doesn't require her to do any setup, and actually has a status effect on the survivors tied to it to boot. Demogorgon's traversal is only barely decent, it's not good by any stretch. The only thing wrong with Sadako's is that the audio cue is directional, it should be map-wide and nonspecific so you can try for some mindgames- but using it to traverse, it's the best map teleport in the game.
- Her secondary objective isn't supposed to be overpowering, it's supposed to be slowdown. I'd agree that it needs a little boost, but your proposed fix is wildly off the mark- it's not Pyramid Head's Trails, it's Pig's Reverse Bear Trap. As for her 1v1, I wouldn't call it pathetic but it's definitely not her strength; she's a stealthy traversal killer, not a direct-chase killer. With the upcoming CoH nerf and buff to the status effect I can never spell, her hit-and-run capacity will be going up too.
Sadako is not a particularly strong killer, but she's extremely far from the worst. She is a solidly okay low-B/high-C killer, and while she could use a few buffs to help her out and emphasise certain parts of her kit, people are wildly overblowing how weak she is.
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I think Lullaby should have one token. After you hook someone, it activates, and all skillchecks are silent until the totem is cleansed.
I am sympathetic to the idea that new players would struggle to figure out what's going on if it just was already active at the start, but if it has a defined activation requirement like this, it'll be easier to connect the thread of "I saw the Cursed thing pop up and then skillchecks were made silent, so those two things must be related", and then they can go hunt down the totem. Which, y'know, will be harder since they're new, but... that's true of all hexes, not just Lullaby.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903647#Comment_2903647
Didn't know placing COH in a corner or top of iron works required thought.
Be that as it may, since CoH is no longer going to be the easiest maximum value for healing in the game after its nerf, a lot of people are going to stop using it.
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At the start he was the only killer, so he kinda had to be the strongest.
Anyway, I disagree! I think Trapper is always going to be considered low tier just because of the fact that he has to set up, but I don't think he's at the bottom. Clown is still at the bottom, that's not changed in a while, and I think a strong argument could be made that Trapper's highest potential is higher than a couple other killers too.
That said, there are a handful of buffs he could benefit from.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902768#Comment_2902768
As you can see, it is controversial. And I'll make another out-of-game comparison: What other game nerfs the characters that aren't S tier? We've already seen multiple people admitting that he wasn't OP or S tier, but that he simply "wasn't fun to go against" aka they don't like to lose, and "he took no skill" which is a baseless cheap shot criticism that can be fired at pretty much any killer. What killers need now more than ever is strength, because survivors are way stronger than the killers, and quickscoping was a form of strength in this killer. The criticism against the unnerfed version of this killer has been overdramatized so hard at this point. One of the OP things that allegedly needs nerfing is Alchemist's Ring and Blight himself. So if that needs a nerf and Deathslinger needed his nerf, are we now saying that pre-nerf Deathslinger was as OP as Alchemist's Ring Blight? That's what it seems like to me.
I'm fully aware it's controversial, I said that it shouldn't be.
When it comes to game design, you nerf the things that need nerfing and you buff the things that need buffing, any given community tierlist is fully irrelevant. Deathslinger's power design was unhealthy; while he wasn't necessarily overpowered, winning with him was still much harder than other killers, his power forced survivors into lose/lose scenarios without much requirement on the killer's part.
Fun is subjective, obviously, but it should be a baseline touchstone for everyone that a game requires both sides have influence over the outcome. The survivor should have some input in a chase, I'm sure you'd agree on that front?
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@Salvador578 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903647#Comment_2903647
This is a big thing with the killer meta too, I used to be beat over the head with Freddys then he got nerfed, then I started getting beat over the head with Wraiths, then he got nerfed, then Spirit, then Artist, etc
Yup - it's just a thing with games in general, people will use what they perceive to be the strongest options, and a lot of the time that translates to being the easiest to get value from. Not all the time, but it's a trend.
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The game saw a gigantic spike in players during the Resident Evil chapter, leading to an all-time-high of players that slowly started to trickle away because a lot of the time people just don't really stick with new games for all that long.
If you're worried about the game's overall health, you'd have to check the numbers from the last 30 days compared to the same time last year, not only six months ago. That's a better indication of how the game's doing, since those numbers would go far enough back not to be affected by the Resident Evil chapter.
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Sadako isn't even close to the worst, she just isn't a direct-chase killer so the way to use her isn't as obvious and a lot harder to utilise.
She's a stealth killer who wants to be denying survivors information, and who can resort to hit-and-run where applicable if she needs to. Slap some information and Exposed on her, and she's a beast who pressures the map like basically no other killer, at least while her TVs are up. Sadako is solidly in the mid-tier, there are plenty of killers worse off than her- Clown still takes bottom spot and that's not changed for a while.
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The one boon that's a problem actually was disabled at launch, and it was the best window of the game we've ever had.
It'll be effectively disabled again once the nerf hits live, not because it's actually bad but because it'll require more thought to use well, so people will flock to something easier.
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I'd say Myers, I think he needs some modernising. I'd like to see Freddy's power improved a little too, it's got such an interesting base and I wish it were just a touch more engaging for both sides...
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902732#Comment_2902732
Demogorgon doesn't require that much time to charge his Shred, especially when it comes to a short Shred, which isn't punishing if you know the timing.
Demogorgon can't injure Survivors behind dropped Pallets, but neither can Deathslinger. Demogorgon can, however, hit Survivors that are about to drop a Pallet, unlike Deathslinger, because dropping a Pallet will be prioritized.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902736#Comment_2902736
Demogorgon OP pls nerf
Yes he can? He can't down people behind dropped pallets, but if a healthy survivor is hit by the speargun, they are injured no matter what, he does not have to hit them with the M1. That imparts Deep Wound, not the injury itself.
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He's not actually all that similar to Huntress, he's almost more similar to Plague in that he has to continually hit someone to fill a meter before the damage is done, and he has an """improved""" version of his power earned through using the regular version a lot. Main Event is categorically worse than Corrupt Purge, though. Beyond being ranged and reloading at lockers, the way his power functions isn't all that similar.
If we are comparing them, though, there are a few upsides. As noted above, he's more forgiving if you miss, and there are neat gaps in certain structures like the Shack's boarded up windows that he can throw knives through but that Huntress couldn't get a hit through. He's also, and this isn't really mechanical but still matters, infectiously fun to play as due to his constant vocalisations and sick sound effects, so there's that to consider!
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As other people have pointed out, the reason it works in those games and not DBD is because those games are FPS games, and DBD isn't. Both teams are on equal footing, have identical mechanics, and the person being fired at can fire back if they're quicker on the draw. None of those things apply to DBD, so clearly a quickscope mechanic - while requiring a form of skill - isn't appropriate or healthy for this game.
This is so obvious that it really should be uncontroversial, I'm shocked people are still harping on Slinger having been totally fine when that's clearly not the case. He isn't in a good state now, I'm not arguing that, but having a power that survivors can't do anything about because either of the only two options they have will result in getting hit is unhealthy.
FPS games and DBD cannot be compared like this. Wild that people were so hard on the hockey analogy, only for this to crop up after it...
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901703#Comment_2901703
ye wow has pvp xD, if you have a low equipped character and que for arenas you get matched with opponents with a similar equipment level to yours.
What do you mean with balance issue? Its just the progression of the game, you start small and have to level up which is totally fine, you just shouldnt meet ppl that are way above your own level (Progression wise).
The balance issue is that you have to dump a bunch of bloodpoints into a character before they're usable at your level. The solution to that problem is either to have characters start with at least three perk slots and their teachables already at level three, or to fundamentally change how loadouts work at all- changing the matchmaking is just more points of potential failure, which I don't think is going to help in the long run. It's just another thing the devs would have to juggle to make sure it's working consistently across all tiers of play, to say nothing of characters that start with wildly stronger teachable perks than others.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901636#Comment_2901636
Hearthstone and world of warcraft both had this for example and it worked very wellt for both games. I wouldnt do it that complicated about which perk and which not but more about if a perk is lvl 1-2 or 3 and how many you have equipped.
Those things are still balance issues and not matchmaking issues, though? The fact that you have to dump a bunch of bloodpoints into a character before you have all perk slots unlocked or even usable perks to fill them with isn't a problem with the matchmaking, and especially not the MMR.
(Does WoW have PVP? I legit didn't know that, I haven't played it before.)
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901666#Comment_2901666
Did the developers ever say they were planning to nerf CoH independent from the forums?
Yup. A few times here on the forums, it was clarified that the phrasing of "due to popular demand we've moved a nerf forward to this PTB" does, in fact, mean that all they did was move the nerf forward, not implement it to begin with.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901598#Comment_2901598
The only place that the Developers communicate with a large group of the player base is the forums, whether it is here, twitter or reddit. So forums is pretty much implied at that point.
The influence from the forums was still timing, not whether the change got made at all.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901585#Comment_2901585
I wouldnt call addons or perks as "closely looking". Many other games also have that exact same function. My point here is that ppl who are new to the game OR if you get a new character which barely any perks shouldnt get matched with other full equipped players. Atleast if you have a low level character you shouldnt be paired with other that are already full.
Are you certain about that? Because all of the games I could find information on very explicitly didn't have that kind of function, they very explicitly did just look at a player's winrate to calculate their MMR. This is for two main reasons- one, it's just much harder on its face to objectively measure how powerful/skilful/etc any of those things are in a way that isn't context dependant, and two, it'd throw the system completely out of whack if those things ever changed. For instance, basing your MMR partially on whether you have Dead Hard equipped would then require the system be changed to accommodate for Dead Hard ever getting nerfed- then snowball that out to every perk, item, and addon in the game, and you see why this is a monumental amount of work.
That's why it's based on winrate. If your game is balanced, anything that'd be deemed more powerful or more skilful by something more involved will reliably lead to more wins, and if your game isn't balanced, your matchmaking system can't be built around whatever's unbalanced about it. It's simpler, it's cleaner, it doesn't require mountains of maintenance for any changed aspect of the game, and it works just as well.
Now, obviously you shouldn't be matched against new players; we know that the system is broken in how it matches players, and that's what these recent tests have been trying to fix to my knowledge. To the point about a low-level killer without all equipment slots unlocked... I don't think that's a matchmaking problem, I think that's a problem with how perk and addon dependent a lot of killers are. This is less applicable to survivors since they all share a perfectly serviceable basekit, but it applies a little- and either way, that's a balance issue and not a matchmaking issue.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901472#Comment_2901472
Yeah, when they mentioned the buff they are giving Legion, I was thinking how insanely unbalanced that would be at low and mid levels of play. And on top of that, he's easy to use for new players.
My guess is he'll be nerfed. Then again, their decisions on balance has been really questionable with the Boil Over nerf and I really think the CoH nerf is unwarranted. They even admitted the CoH-nerf was because people on forums was asking for it.
Slight correction- they did not admit that they nerfed CoH because people on the forums wanted it, they said that they moved the change up to this PTB because people disliked CoH in general. They planned on doing it completely independently, and did it sooner because people were still (rightfully) complaining.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901147#Comment_2901147
Thanks for explaining however I am already aware of that.
Then... what's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to get a 'gotcha' here, if you understand that this is how MMR functions and that it's the better option than looking too closely at a single match, what is your overall point...?
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Probably nothing beyond fixing the exploit for getting chain hits off hooked survivors, which some will insist is a nerf.