jedimaster505
jedimaster505
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@Haildamage93 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962770#Comment_3962770
You are certainly NOT guaranteed two deaths per trial. I've said this before to people in these forums, hyperbole DOES NOT help when you are trying to have a debate, or discussion about any topic. Making hyperbolic statements such as "Guaranteed two deaths per trial." makes it difficult to believe you. I'm not 100% sure what you're 2nd line of text is supposed to mean, but if you're saying every survivor has less than a 50% escape rate that is objectively untrue. Finally, let's be honest general outcries are FAR from objective. I'm not trying to berate you or anything of the sort. I was just hoping you had some kind of objective metric for which you were making your claim.
He's obviously referring to the fact that every killer has an average kill rate well above 50%. The game is balanced so that killers win more than they lose, by design, so it's actually, on average, over 2 kills guaranteed per match, assuming you play with average skill level against survivors of the same skill level. Of course, sometimes you get better or worse RNG, better or worse opponents, but at the end of the day killer role is pampered generously relative to survivor in terms of the agency the player is given to win. I can't even take most killer mains complaints seriously because while they will go on and on about how a specific nerf to killer or buff to survivor is a terrible thing, they always ignore the reality that killer role is inherently OP and that these nerfs only level the playing field, making for fairer and more engaging matches.
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wrong answer. you're supposed to escape, obviously
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@Marzipan210 said:
Once he gets that initial hit he is essentially an m1 killer with high mobility and you can loop him like one. Think of him like a Legion that you can't hold W against. Checkspot windows and pallets before running in front of them to prevent giving him an enraged vault.
The first hit is more free than Legion's first hit. That's already lazy design. For his second hit, he's far more oppressive than Legion cause once he fast vaults the pallet he can down you with hardly any cooldown. So if you don't pre drop he'll just M1 you for greeding, which turns even God loops into 50/50s at every pallet. You have to bait a pallet stun in a standoff. And if you miss which is very easy if the killer fakes going forward and retreats, then he gets a free second hit.
Ghoul is just blatantly OP and broken pay to win DLC.
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You basically pray the ghoul is bad which is most of them. The first hit can't be avoided.
The second hit is a 50/50 at every pallet. If you pre drop, killer fast vaults and hits you. If you greed pallet, killer just M1s you. So you have to bait a pallet stun in a standoff like going against Legion. But we all know how easy it is for killer to dodge that, stepping back a bit and vault pallet. But with ghoul he downs you instead of deep wounding and running away like Legion.
In the hands of a skilled player, Ghoul is just as good as Blight but substantially easier to play. Fortunately or unfortunately, because so many players know ghoul is both easy to play and S tier, you have a ton of low skill ghoul players that bring ghoul down to B or A tier due to their own mechanical incompetence. The downside being that you play against him in so many matches that you just want to go next.
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So much mental gymnastics from self proclaimed math wizards in this sub just to justify why a poorly balanced game is a good thing. The funny part though, that all these killer mains saying 60/40 is a good thing would be outraged if the devs suddenly decided to invert the ratio to 40/60. They'd be furious and quitting left and right. These kind of sloppy, incoherent and convoluted analytics are just a self report of their bias in favor of killer role because they'd never accept the same imbalance if it was their preferred role that was disadvantaged.
And for goodness sake, stop claiming that the 60/40 ratio is due to Dead by Daylight being "asymmetrical". I refuted this already, as the asymmetrical nature of the game refers to the difference in gameplay between killer role and survivor role and always has since 2016. The game was asymmetrical when survivors had the upper hand so clearly the meaning of asymmetry is not referring to overpowered killer balancing.
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Okay so some killer buffs/survivor nerfs and some killer nerfs/survivor buffs as usual.
Take a deep breath, killer mains. I know some changes make your heart beat faster but always bear this in mind: BHVR forces you to win more than you lose by design. I'm unaware of any other PVP dev that holds one sides hand this hard. It's easy to get caught up in the smaller details and forget the bigger picture that you are still the devs favorite child
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959506#Comment_3959506
I told you my point in my original reply but you focused in on the 48% escape rate.
Soloqueue and SWF will always have a divide, the idea that the game should be balanced around 4 soloqueues who can't communicate, make constant mistakes and often don't even bring a full load out, having a 50% escape rate makes no sense. In addition to making no thematic sense, competetive games like dbd should be balanced around people trying to win. Yeah, we should balance for casuals too, but not at the detriment for, not just top level play, but even just high MMR play.
The stats you used it shows that soloqueue having an around 40.4% escape rate and 4 people SWF 48.2% leads to an escape rate of 42%.
Currently if both sides are strong the game is relatively well balanced. We should not change that just because one side is more susceptible to bad play.
I don't think they should balance around solo Q exclusively, but instead find a middle ground between swf and solo q. currently they balance around not just Swf overall, but around the strongest high MMR 4 stack which represents only a small minority of the survivor player base.
it's okay if a small percentage of the strongest survivor teams escape more than 50% using 3rd party apps (which is basically cheating that can't be controlled) if the overall escape rate for survivor player base is 50%. killers don't face those teams most of the time anyway. the game should not be balanced to ensure a small percentage of "cheaters" escape less than 50%. if I really had a choice I would never have introduced SWF feature in the first place since that makes balancing a nightmare and ruins the atmosphere of dnd anyways since this game is not supposed to be comp CS GO with map call outs
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959444#Comment_3959444
You are not arguing the point. Alright let's take your number of 48.2%. is it really that far-fetched that a SWF that tries to win, has a 1.8% higher escape rate than average due to all the examples I gave?
I don't see what point you're trying to make. The average escape rate for solos and Swf overall is in the low 40s.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959032#Comment_3959032
Its 48.9% so more like 49%. And high MMR is the top 10% of the playerbase, so in total 6 million players. If you have 3 strong players and they bring a beginner friend, that's a high MMR match I reckon. I have seen 4 stevegulls in high MMR or people doing invocations or a SWF who thought Legion was boring so they all just didn't mend or a squad that ignored gens and went for blinds and stuns instead, etc… So I think that the average competent high MMR SWF has at least a 1.1% higher escape rate than the average hih MMR SWF.
I don't know where you get 48.9 from as the BHVR stat im referring to is 48.2%, unless BHVR put out new stats recently.
Nightlight is not a reliable source and I don't know where your other numbers come from with respect to high MMR.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958997#Comment_3958997
Any competent 4 man SWF should easily have a 50%+ escape rate. Soloqueue and SWF will always have a divide, the idea that the game should be balanced around 4 soloqueues who can't communicate, make constant mistakes and often don't even bring a full load out, having a 50% escape rate makes no sense. In addition to making no thematic sense, competetive games like dbd should be balanced around people trying to win. Yeah, we should balance for casuals too, but not at the complete detriment for, not just top level play, but even just high MMR play.
Currently if both sides are strong the game is relatively well balanced.
high MMR 4 stacks have only an average 48 percent escape rate so that's not even true as even the most competent 4 man swfs average below 50. I don't even expect the devs to balance around solo q, but balancing around 50% average escape rate with swf and solos combined, the entire survivor player base, is perfectly sensible
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I love how petrified killer mains become the second survivors have anything added that might bring the escape rate closer to 50%. it's like they're so used to having their hand held with the forced kill rates that the thought of the average match being well balanced terrifies them.
that said, I hope deja vu don't get nerfed. it's the king of breaking 3 gens and though it does get used a fair but it's underrated due to unconditional repair speed increase, cut down time locating gens and quickly breaking 3 gen clusters from the beginning of the match without needing to run around the map to see hidden gen spawn locations
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958775#Comment_3958775
It was never published which perks they use or use comms like intended, there are times where my buddies are too tired to use any comms and just text before and at the end of the game to say like (let me change some stuff).
So while that stat is true it doesnt hold proper value no depth to it
the reason the 4 man squad at high MMR is 48% versus the 40% of high MMR solo q players is precisely because the 4 stack is using every advantage they can to escape. were talking about the most successful high MMR survivors that are going up against high MMR sweaty killers that will tunnel camp and slug for the 4k with no mercy at all.
even if you're exceptionally talented as a solo q player you're just going to escape less because of poor matchmaking and lack of coordination.
the high MMR players are sweating as hard as possible on both sides or they won't be high MMR. 4 man swfs that have no comms and thus poor coordination end up performing similar to solo q players or worse if they're overly altruistic
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958714#Comment_3958714
I have stated that the system should only prevent literal mmr exploitation and bypass even when running meta killers and perks on them.
The system wont eliminate the use of SWF, the whole point of SWF is to have comms right?
But is it fair the game does not have any prevention tool for them if they decide to stack perks which then can be used to guarantee a win.
high mmr full meta perk 4 stack with comms only escapes 48%, which means killer is stronger, not even close to a guaranteed win
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958696#Comment_3958696
See, told you it would be a rough rounded number like that, my simulations shown 30-30-30% but i guess its in the 40%.
Proves my point that this will just go in loop and circles until they add a way for machine learning to dynamically balance each game unique based off of how players have played their matches in history.
Until then people who dont play in swfs will have bad stats and then joining premade they will just bump up their MMR higher and get boosted completely ruining balance in this game, either devs are oblivious to this or enforce this so they have something to do by constantly balancing back and forth.
Either way its unfair, proves my point anyways
Machine learning will prevent this to happen and give the devs a better insight how stats are supposed to be.
You and other killer mains keep stating your opinion that SWF is far stronger than killer when this is far from correct. The idea that SWF > Killer is a myth that has persisted since 2016 when the game was genuinely survivor-sided with infinite loops and what-not. It is no longer the case by a long shot. However, every killer will go up against teams that are stronger than them and feel that it is "hard". But that's just because most killers getting stomped by SWF squads (or solo teams they falsely assume are SWF squads) are low to average MMR, yet every killer main wants to believe they are a high MMR killer main just cause they copied TrueTalent's "OP killer build" on YouTube and spent 20-50 hours becoming quite average on their favorite killer.
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@Coffee2Go said:
Whoever is downvoting me, tell me why do you hate the fact that im speaking the truth about why survivors in squads keep winning because of their comms and playtime?
We both know its because the game is not a true asymmetrical game even if its stated and sold as one?
And we both know the reason why you downvote me is because if devs do add the system of true asymmetry you will complain how the game is too hard and even with your knowledge and 6 year playing you wont be able to predict each match because it will be different you will have to rely on your own skill and your teams by exploring the existing maps figuring out what place to go to when the layout shifts and changes.
You do realize the game will be perfect 1:1 ratio of how it would feel like if a real killer is chasing you and hunting to kill by placing you in a full different layout where you need quick thinking, reflexes
Dead by Daylight is an online asymmetric multiplayer survival horror video game.
Wikipedia 2025
You're not speaking the truth. Overall SWF squads lose way more than killers, even the 4 man comp squads at high MMR.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Saying the game is balanced around 4 man SWF comp squads might be the funniest thing i've heard all year
The facts do not care about your feelings.
Fun fact: 4 man SWF comp squads lose most of their matches. Yes, let that sink in.
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An update broke something near the beginning of the year, since performance was not an issue despite the game looking the same. Massive hitching often during chases. I see it happen to many streamers even with PC's better than mine.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956400#Comment_3956400
Oh, wow. You took the completely wrong lesson from those toddler years and little league games.
Sportsmanship isn't "playing in a manner that makes sure that everyone has a good time." Sportsmanship is "an understanding of and commitment to fair play, ethical behavior and integrity, and general goodwill toward an opponent." It means not cheating, not breaking the rules, and not being a jerk about the end result. I can have goodwill towards an opponent while actively trying to crush them in-game. Sportsmanship is about fair play, respect and grace in both victory and defeat. The competition, in and of itself, is supposed to be the "good time." If you can't have fun while competing, maybe competitive multiplayer games aren't for you.
The point of sayings like, "Winning isn't everything," is to teach kids that it's better to play fair and lose than to cheat and win.
What's ironic is that I see far more survivors utilizing poor sportsmanship than killers. It's quite common for survivors to gloat when they win and spout the most vitriolic stuff in the end game chat when they lose. Especially if they lose because the killer didn't follow some imaginary rule that they made up in their head.
It's only more "common" for survivors to gloat because there are 4 times the number of survivors. Control for the ratio of 1 to 4 and killers BM as much if not more than survivors.
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Killer is super easy mode, followed by 4 man SWF which is Easy mode, and solo Q which is Hard mode. I play killer if I want a break from the challenge of solo Q survivor. It's like playing American Truck Simulator. Just easy auto pilot execution for the most part. But it gets really boring fast. And the so-called "hardest" killers in the game like Blight and Nurse, are actually the easiest killers. You just have to put in a few hours to get over the learning curve. Whereas the "weakest" killers are still overpowered and can easily 3-4K if you apply yourself a little bit, since mechanically you can master these killers in just a few minutes.
The issue with many killer mains is they feel entitled to super long win streaks. So the occasional match against a 4 man SWF on comms that actually sweats hard and is good, yeah, that can be stressful because you're actually being challenged for once. Then they come on here to complain how overpowered survivors are. But in comparison to Solo Q it's super easy mode.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954444#Comment_3954444
Maybe read first before commenting. Op clearly said for soloq when you are alone and dead. There is no way to abuse it.
If the devs add the feature of seeing the build early then SWF teams will take advantage of it even if it is added for solos. The devs give solos and SWF the same features, genius. You need a history lesson.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Something that I thought of quite some time now.
When you play solo q and you are dying anything other than last, why can't you see the killer build in the postgame lobby? Sometimes stuff happens and you want to check what the perk or addon was.
You basically would have to wait the whole rest of the game while you as a solo player certainly cannot tell anyone in this round the perks and/or addons of the killer as there is no ingame voice chat. Which is the basic idea of hiding them, I get that.
But a solo player is exactly that: solo.
So the suggestion: Make killer builds in solo q visible for the player who already died so they can check and just play their next round. Thank you. :)
This would be abused by SWF teams that would tell their teammates the killer's perks after they die to help them win.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954148#Comment_3954148
"Not representative because…" Ugh I hate this argument because its exactly players like you and I the game should get balanced towards. We know the game mostly inside out, personally I have a hard time keeping track of all the new perks and constant changes to them, lord help new players, but thats about it. If you understand how to run the loops, most maps are very survivor oriented. To this day I still see many maps with near infinites, and full of actual god loops. Half of the killer roster loses hard to this, and the other half has to sweat.
that's just not true so many maps are tiny and have hardly any pallets left. both maps and map offerings got heavily nerfed. the maps are killer sided for the most part for most killers.
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My overall survivor escape rate in last 30 days is 60.36% over 169 matches and I play exclusively solo Q. I occasionally play open lobbies but those matches are usually a ######### show because anyone can join, and there are no 3rd party comms. I am not representative of the average survivor as I have been playing since 2016 with 3.5K hours so I'm cracked at looping and mind games and know how to counter every killer.
I have 827.7 hrs in matches as a survivor cause I spend a lot of time studying the perks, killer add-ons, killer abilities and spectating other survivors to learn more.
I used to use Fixated regularly but recently I've swapped it out for Resilience to get faster gen repairs, faster vaults, faster unlocking, faster gates, faster unhooking, faster cleansing and more. Fixated can help make stealth plays that lose the killer, break blood lust mid chase, and help with flashlight save positioning, but I prefer faster vaults, gates, chests, totems and gen repairs.
When I use Deja Vu and Resilience together, I can break up 3 gen clusters from the beginning of the match to pressure the killer. Killers regularly whiff cause of faster vaulting since they think they're close enough to hit me and fall for the bait. Better than Finesse cause it has no cooldown so can't be wasted. Faster gates also gets me out alive many times as I can open the door before the killer hooks someone and travels to the gate. Being able to open chests quicker helps to find med kits since I always bring a flashlight. Deja Vu also helps me avoid running to the 3 gen clusters during chase, so that the other survivors can break the 3 gen.
I use Windows of Opportunity because in Solo Q it cuts down the RNG of not knowing if there is a pallet around a corner, or if the breakable wall is still up. This helps efficiently link tiles and avoid dead zones in chase as well as maintain distance from killer. It makes looping depend on actual skill and not mere luck due to lack of information from teammates.
Sprint Burst is the best exhaustion perk because you can avoid being downed in a dead zone by bursting off a gen or gate as soon as you see/hear the killer. You can also 99 it to extend chases, and travel the map faster, so it saves a bunch of time.
Oh yes and I main Lara Croft now, I'm at Prestige 54 and 135 perks unlocked with her. I also have a P100 Nea and a legacy prestige Claudette.
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@thrawn3054 said:
That's because alot of perks are either terrible or only work as gimmicks.
This is a naive mindset. Perks become much stronger when you pair them with the right perks and adjust playstyle. Most cases of people calling perks "bad" is just a self-report on not knowing how to make good use of it.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953096#Comment_3953096
- ‘’Tunneling Means You’re a Bad Killer”
Not necessarily. A skilled killer may tunnel as a tactical decision, not out of desperation or lack of skill. For example, if a survivor is on death hook and the gens are nearly done, it’s not unreasonable to prioritize removing them. That’s strategy, not a lack of skill. - “Killers Are Entitled”
This paints with too broad a brush. Most killer players don’t expect a 4k every game—they just want a fair match. When you face strong SWFs with full meta perks, it can feel suffocating on the other end too. The entitlement argument cuts both ways. - “You Don’t Need to Play Killer to Know It’s OP”
You don’t need to be a killer main to comment on balance, but first-hand experience matters. There are many pain points for killers that survivors just don’t see—gen speed, boons, flashlight saves, body blocking, or SWF coordination. Without playing both sides deeply, it’s easy to underestimate the difficulty of killer gameplay. - “Every Killer Wins Most Matches”
That’s just not true across all skill levels and MMRs. Some killers require good pathing, power timing, and perk synergy to win. A low-skill player using Hag or Trickster won’t win consistently against decent survivors. And not everyone is a Blight main with 2,000 hours.
Yes, good killers can tunnel to go on absurdly long win streaks that good survivors can't achieve. But average and below average killers tunnel because they lack the game sense and chase skill to do get the same results without it. No matter who tunnels, it's still an overpowered cheese tactic that should be made less effective. Nerfing it would simply tip the scales from 60/40 closer to 50/50 and make it more difficult for killers to go on extended win streaks. This is what Stage 2 is for, but how the devs will approach it, I don't know. But an MMR system which measures survivor skill more accurately is also needed.
I have no issue with killer players wanting and trying to win, this is quite natural. What is entitled is complaining the game is survivor sided when the average killer wins well over half their matches, and the average survivor escapes less than half their matches. There will always be tactics and perks that make survivors more difficult to beat, but this is irrelevant if the killer is still able to win more often than not. Survivors should not have to hope the killer "goes easy" on them out of pity just to experience a balanced match. Killers should average a 2K if they sweat as hard as the survivor teams at their skill level, that's all.
You can analyze killer role without ever playing it, just like there are sport analysts that have no mechanical skill as an athlete but understand the sport deeply. You only need to play killer role to train mechanically as killer. Everything else can be learned second-hand by watching streamers, studying wikis and in-game screens, and playing survivor.
By "every" killer, I did not mean every individual player, but every killer character, on average. Brand new and/or low skill killers can obviously lose more matches than they win. But even the lowest tier killer in the hands of a competent player will win more than half of their matches against survivor teams of equivalent skill.
- ‘’Tunneling Means You’re a Bad Killer”
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Tunneling is a low skill, high reward strategy. You can be a baby killer and still get decent results against experienced survivors doing it. So it always feels like a cheap, undeserved win, because it is. The kill rates are so high now on every single killer, that killers have nothing legitimate to complain about really, it's just nitpicking at this point. Sure, if they stopped tunneling and proxy camping and slugging, kill rates would decrease somewhat, however, they'd still win the majority of their matches playing honorably. The killers with inflated high MMR would lose a bit and go back to mid MMR where they should be. This idea that killers are forced to tunnel is nonsense.
The so-called "low tier" killers nowadays, are basically what used to be an S tier killer in 2016. The new S tier is really an S+++++++ tier killer. It's that easy. Killer mains nowadays are far more entitled than survivors. Survivors are complaining because they lose most of their matches as the stats are showing. Killers complain because their win streaks are broken by survivor teams that are better than them, in spite of winning most of their matches. Remember, all the meta perks that survivors bring is only the survivors' attempt to bring the average escape rate closer to 50%, and it still fails to accomplish this at the highest MMR with a 4 man SWF with comms. So killer mains have moved the goal posts very far over the years, such that they are basically gaslighting survivor mains when they say the game is survivor-sided.
Wraith is not weak in chase. He has very high mobility and can block vaults and pallets. Nor is Oni, who can easily 1 hit down at rapid speed with 180 flicks and then go slug everyone else quickly. Ghost Face can 1 hit down with stealth so he can down people quickly. Pig can use their stealth with perks to 1 hit down you and gets passive pressure with the head traps. Onryo can just abuse a build to get condemned stacks and 1 hit downs. If Onryo were "strong" in chase she would be unbeatable if the killer has any competence. She is very oppressive in the right hands as it is.
I repeat, killers do not need to tunnel to win. Most killer mains don't want to hear this, but it's a skill issue. However, the goal posts have moved so far that they feel entitled to 60%+ kill rates, which by definition, is not "balanced". But killer mains pretend that this unevenness is actually fairly balanced because it benefits their preferred role.
One last thing. While I have played both sides, it's just a myth that you need to play killer role to know that it is OP. The official kill rates and escape rates, plus experience playing survivor, plus watching killer and survivor main streamers, make it obvious that every single killer in the game wins most of their matches on average. Mechanically, even the "hardest" killers in Dead by Daylight are relatively easy to learn, but with a somewhat steeper learning curve than the others. However, the oppressiveness of a character like Nurse or Blight completely makes up for it.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953076#Comment_3953076
I want a consistent locked 120 FPS with ZERO drops, it will play at ultra for sure but not consistently
My point is that these massive FPS drops just didn't occur for me until recent updates. Last year I had no hitching on just a GTX 1070 at Ultra settings. Yet visually, the game looks the same to me as it did before. If this game were properly optimized, there's no way a 4060 should be getting huge FPS drops. And I see many DBD streamers with RTX 3090, RTX 4070, RTX 4080, having these massive stutters that pause the game for a second mid chase. So there's some issue on the development side that is killing performance on even powerful cards.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
No, it will not be playable on those specs. That is a very old mobile GPU that was not good when it came out in 2014.
I have a good PC anyway but I also have a laptop with a 3050 with 4GB of VRAM and while it will start the game and run it, the experience was awful with constant large FPS drops and stuttering that made it unbearable. I have a laptop with a 4060 as well and that plays it fine with medium settings @ 120 FPS
Your laptop is far too old and will not play any Unreal 5 based games
A 4060 should easily be able to run the game smoothly at Ultra settings. Recent updates have introduced a performance issue.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952981#Comment_3952981
If it was for balancing purposes, they'd have a functional MMR system.
Tracking a 10K hour team vs a 200 hour Killer isn't going to tell you much about balance.
Well the irony here is that a 200 hour Nurse or Blight can routinely crush a 10K hour survivor team (2.5K hrs per survivor). So that does tell you something.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
How often are you seeing DC’s in your matches? You have a valid point if DC’s occur in like 50% of matches, but in my experience it’s not even close to that. Especially now with the harsher DC penalties.
I’m a very mediocre solo queue survivor player and I manage to escape around 40% of the time according to my stats. I don’t believe the escape rate stats are wildly inflated.
The matches where a Nurse/Blight/Spirit/Kaneki steamrolls the team for a quick 4K, an early DC is actually very likely. So excluding them definitely is padding the stats and making killer role look weaker than it is.
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Assuming you get the dedicated mobile RTX 3050, you could possibly turn down the graphics to low and it would be playable.
The problem is the game is now poorly optimized. Just a few months ago, say January, when the graphics looked the same visually as they do now, I was getting butter smooth performance on a GTX 1070 (desktop) at Ultra settings, no hitching. Now I get huge hitches in almost every match where the game pauses for a second at critical times.
I've watched several streamers with much better cards than mine have this same hitching issue, and I don't get this issue in other games, so it's not just me. I don't know what the devs did, but something is badly optimized and it wasn't this way last year. In between these intermittent and seemingly random hitches the game runs smooth on my card.
A weaker mobile card is only going to exasperate this stuttering issue. Don't even bother with the min specs on Steam, they're a joke. You need to at least meet recommended specs with the way the game is currently optimized, unless you enjoy slideshows.
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@Munky said:
So why are most killers in the 50-60% killrate range? (btw 60% is what BHVR aims for). I don't think many ppl understand the games balance. If lets say half of killers stop tunneling today, then next week the stats would have dropped below 40-50% killrate.
If BHVR somehow completely nullifies tunneling, they would need a massive rework in the games balance, otherwise nobody would be playing killer anymore. A killer is supposed to feel oppressive, right now I rarely ever feel in power as killer. As solo survivor though, it only take me 1 weekend to get to IRRI1 and escape the majority of my matches (59% currently in this reset). As killer I have to sweat my a** of for every single pip I get. According to my hours played on each side, I would be a survivor main at this point, barely but I am… I've been playing A LOT MORE survivor in the last 2 years due to it being much more chill and in control of my progress.
Many players here should be forced to play killer for 100 hours straight, so their opinion can be adjusted towards reality. A content creator who plays 12 hours per day and is incredibly good at one specific killer should not be the measuring standard (which I believe many people here are looking at). The vast majority of players are still very average, both on survivor and killer side.
conclusion: The stats are as they are, which includes tunneling. Game balance on average therefor does not allow non-tunneling, unless killer wants to lose a lot.
A hundred hours into any single killer in the game is enough to win the majority of your matches in killer role. 1000 hours in survivor role is not.
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The kill rates prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that killers do not need to hard tunnel to win matches. They just want to get the big streaks they see their favorite killer main streamers getting. Even if killers were to only 12 hook, the average killer would still win over 50% of matches with the way the game is balanced. It would just separate the great killers from the killers with inflated MMR from abusing cheese tactics. Hopefully stage 2 will address tunneling so that this is the case. As survivor, I want to feel like the killer beat me because he actually outplayed me using game sense and chase skill, not because he was carried by broken game design. In the game's current state, a 3K for the killer actually just feels like the match was a draw, whereas a 2K feels like the killer lost, but was gifted an extra kill from BHVR just for participating.
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Yeah there are definitely situations where it activates way too easily. Sometimes you need to be strategically stealthy but now you're forced to basically give your position away to the killer, even if this stealth is for the benefit of your teammate.
For example, if there are two survivors remaining, if you just run like a headless chicken to unhook the other guy, the killer will easily spot you and down you. He's proxy camping the hook to intercept your save now that he knows you're gonna get crows if you don't interact. In this case, you need to walk and use cover to get close to the hook, and wait for the killer to leave, which may take some time.
With the old crows, the killer was incentivized to leave the hook and search for you if he wants to prevent a hatch escape, allowing you to do a safe hook rescue. If he doesn't leave the hook, he gets punished for proxy camping since you now have a good chance to escape through the hatch or exit gates. If try that approach now, you just get a crow on your head and the killer gets a free down before you can even make the save.
It basically forces the guy off the hook to throw the game if his teammate gets hooked, by doing an unsafe hook rescue, or being easily detected by the killer because of the crows. Or, the guy off the hook has to go around cleansing dull totems, opening chests, and working on a gen to prevent the crows from appearing. That is kind of silly, since you're just doing irrelevant tasks to bypass the crows, and it makes it much easier for the killer to find you should he choose to vacate the hook, he knows to go straight to gens, totems and chests to find you.
As for Grim Embrace, 10 seconds is easy to wait out without getting crows. But if they're blocked for 40 seconds, that can easily lead to crows over head if you were traversing the map off a gen prior to the perk triggering.
I don't think the old crows should come back completely, but the new ones are overkill.
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@hermitkermit said:
Thanks for opening this discussion General. I think a lot of conversations around the “go next” epidemic tend to oversimplify the issue by framing it as a survivor problem, when in reality, it reflects a broader dissatisfaction with the game’s state, just like we’ve seen in the past with killer players.
Historically, the game has gone through clear imbalances. Early DBD heavily favored survivors, with things like infinite loops and permanent hook sabotage, keys with hatch etc . Killer players became burned out, and unhappy, many started leaving, prompting Behavior to make sweeping balance changes. Eventually leading to all kinds of good balance changes/mechanics like Bloodlust, reworking maps, and even adjusting the post-game screen from “The Entity is Displeased” to “The Entity Hungers” to reduce demoralization. That frustration was recognized as valid, and the devs responded. The game we have today is proof that changes were made, because killer frustrations were taken seriously (thankfully!).
Now that survivors are expressing frustration, it’s often dismissed as entitlement or a refusal to adapt. But that double standard is part of the problem. Players quitting or mentally checking out of matches isn’t exclusive to one role, it’s a symptom of feeling powerless, burnt out, or unheard. Whether it’s killers or survivors, both have had their turn feeling neglected by balance or design decisions.
In my opinion, the “go next” behavior is a response/symptom to perceived hopelessness, whether due to mechanics, matchmaking, map RNG, or killer powers that feel overwhelming, with no way to practice against them. The survivor role has become much more knowledge dense, and I think many times it’s less of a skill issue and more of a skill gap. There is just so much knowledge you need to have in order to be competent, and you currently have no way to practice that knowledge, unlike killers who can practice against bots in a custom mode. (A resource I celebrate that killers have access to, and am very vocal about the same resource becoming available to survivors as well)
Ultimately, I feel it shouldn’t be a battle over which side suffers more. The goal should be to make both roles feel satisfying and fair. Dismissing survivor concerns today is no different than ignoring killer concerns from years past. If players want the game to thrive, then players should care about other players, regardless of their preferred role.In 2016-2020 when I was a new player, terrible at looping and lacked game knowledge, I found the game quite difficult as survivor. I was not abusing infinites or other exploits because I was simply unaware they existed. Nowadays, survivor must be completely unplayable for new players. Solo Q is barely playable for veteran survivors at this point. It's pretty comical that 4 man SWF teams with thousands of hours experience per member, sweating as hard as they can with 3rd party comms and Reshade filters, routinely get 4K steamrolled by a Nurse, Spirit, or Blight with under 500 hours.
I feel the best balance period was between 2020-2022, before the huge meta shift with 6.1 update. Ever since 6.1, survivor role has just been steadily going downhill with solo Q being less and less worth playing, unless you're a masochist. And I must be because I exclusively play solo Q, because the idea of sweating on comms with a SWF like its CS GO completely ruins the atmosphere of DBD for me. The pendulum has swung from survivor-sided to heavily killer-sided instead of just resting in the middle. Now killer queues are super long while survivors are bribed with blood points to endure misery from killers that all too often use the "power role" to be toxic and BM a survivor who outplayed them but inevitably got caught once the weak links were removed with tunneling/proxy camping/slugging.
I've uninstalled this game so many times post 6.1 due to its unplayability as survivor. I never used to do this. I never used to go-next either but it reached a point where it was completely pointless to stay in certain matches due to how hilariously broken some killer's abilities are. Which is a shame, because the game itself is super fun when the match is actually balanced. But because matchmaking doesn't work and really poor balancing decisions have been made post 6.1 update, these close matches are the exception, not the norm.
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The answer is quite simple. People suicide in DBD because they consider the match is not worth playing. Players don't consider it worth playing because killers have been buffed to such a degree that the challenge level typically far exceeds the reward for the survivor player.
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@Rapid99 said:
I full on think that people who try to defend the go next stuff or try to provide some valid reasons as to why it happen, is a bit ignorant sorry to say. Not because you can't do it or not that those reasons aren't valid for the overall experience of survivor. The problem is, those reasons aren't why people leave.
Someone isn't leaving early due to "deteriorating survivor role" because those things aren't even in effect when people leave.
People will see a killer they don't like… and leave. People will have a bad chase… and leave. People's TEAMMATES will have a bad chase… and leave. People will not like the map they're on… and leave.
none of those have to do with a "deteriorating survivor role", they have to do with players being entitled. And it isn't just a survivor thing, it happens with killer too. If the game isn't perfect. A map they want, a killer they like, and a good first chase? They'll leave.
But dbd is genuinely the ONLY multiplayer game I've ever seen where people will try to defend leavers and people who give up, it's hilarious. This mindset of defending leavers gets bullied in any other community because why are we defending people who ruin the experience for everyone else. If you don't like the game and survivor has been "too deteriorated" for you… STOP PLAYING. Stop playing the game, play something else, instead of ruining the experience of everyone who actually enjoys / wants to play the game.
It's like people who leave feel OBLIGATED to play the game, even though they are immensely unhappy with it. So then all that ends up happening is ruining it for everyone else, whilst they stay unhappy.
Going next is those players decision to "stop playing", so they're already doing what you suggest. They stop playing because the game is designed reward killers for low skill cheese tactics, while expecting survivors to be a 4 man squad of pro level loopers using 3rd party applications just to escape a killer that has far less experience and skill than they do.
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@Rapid99 said:
I full on think that people who try to defend the go next stuff or try to provide some valid reasons as to why it happen, is a bit ignorant sorry to say. Not because you can't do it or not that those reasons aren't valid for the overall experience of survivor. The problem is, those reasons aren't why people leave.
Someone isn't leaving early due to "deteriorating survivor role" because those things aren't even in effect when people leave.
People will see a killer they don't like… and leave. People will have a bad chase… and leave. People's TEAMMATES will have a bad chase… and leave. People will not like the map they're on… and leave.
none of those have to do with a "deteriorating survivor role", they have to do with players being entitled. And it isn't just a survivor thing, it happens with killer too. If the game isn't perfect. A map they want, a killer they like, and a good first chase? They'll leave.
But dbd is genuinely the ONLY multiplayer game I've ever seen where people will try to defend leavers and people who give up, it's hilarious. This mindset of defending leavers gets bullied in any other community because why are we defending people who ruin the experience for everyone else. If you don't like the game and survivor has been "too deteriorated" for you… STOP PLAYING. Stop playing the game, play something else, instead of ruining the experience of everyone who actually enjoys / wants to play the game.
It's like people who leave feel OBLIGATED to play the game, even though they are immensely unhappy with it. So then all that ends up happening is ruining it for everyone else, whilst they stay unhappy.
Going next is those players decision to "stop playing", so they're already doing what you suggest. They stop playing because the game is designed reward killers for low skill cheese tactics, while expecting survivors to be a 4 man squad of pro level loopers using 3rd party applications just to escape a killer that has far less experience and skill than they do.
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Killer mains only need to learn 1 killer, not 4-5. Overcome the somewhat steeper learning curve on a Blight or Nurse, and you can easily 3-4K SWF teams with several times more skill and experience per survivor.
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@Lexilogo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945928#Comment_3945928
Springtrap doesn't really have Legion's aura reading by any measure. If he hits you with the axe, he can see the axe, unless you're in the process of removing it. He's not revealing anyone else and the aura read is quite counterable so you can still mindgame shack/jungle gyms with an axe in your back. If you're talking about the axe radius Killer Instinct that's ridiculously petty to complain about lol
He also doesn't have Singularity cameras either, the cameras are exclusively used by the Survivors.
Survivors also do get more agency and skill expression with his addition, he gives Survivors a teleport. It's not like Dracula or something where the Killer gets all the toys and Survivors are just playing normal DbD.
You're correct that there's been a trend of giving Killers more different tools at the same time, but I really don't think Springtrap is going too far in that department. There's a lot that needs to get fixed up about the update but Springtrap's fundamental design is good, I just think Survivors need a better reason to monitor cameras.
the axe is very easy to hit when he comes out of his portal invisible so then he gets a free aura read to down you quick before you can even remove it, and even if you do then he just has his axe back to hit you again which is so easy from close range…even if he misses with his axe he still gets free aura reading in the tile. plus when his axe hits, the speed boost hardly gives survivor any distance with how fast he moves, meaning two tapping like Huntress is so easy for him.
okay, the door system is more like Dredge than Singularity. but using camera as survivor also gives killer free info as the door will glow yellow and he can grab you, so he still has a way of monitoring survivors around the map. using the camera system as survivor just felt like a waste of time instead of doing a generator, since most of the time you don't even see him and risk getting grabbed.
his power felt like BS considering he comes out of doors invisible, using the camera just bugged my audio directions, and the game was is still hitching like before which just made him feel like yet another OP killer in a mess of broken MMR and performance issues. frankly all killers are OP cause their kill rates are inflated by design, yes, even Trapper. but killer mains won't admit this because they think OP killer design is "balanced" in the first place. the so-called "weakest" killers in this game still have a huge advantage over survivors when looking at kill rates.
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lol, I've noticed this trend of giving killers more and more combined abilities until there is just basically nothing you can do as a survivor. Now Springtrap has Huntress projectiles, Onryo teleports, Ghostface undetectability, Legion aura reading, Trapper M1, and Singularity map cameras All-In-One single-click gauranteed 4K package! Meanwhile…survivors get less and less agency and skill expression with each update. Like they're just there to be the killers Plaything.
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BHVR has finally seen the light. They will remove all weapons from Dead by Daylight to bring an end to toxicity once and for all.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944869#Comment_3944869
The average escape rate is around 40-45%.
But there are several factors that comes into play, such as region, time of day, week-day or weekend, and what kind of killer you face against.
In my region (EU), the best time to play is usually at nighttime during the week-days. Matches has been the most chill at that time. I guess my 51% escape rate with Sable can somewhat prove it.Besides, I play mostly in a casual manner, unless I am specifically going for an achievement or a challenge.
Another factor would be how much time you played before killer role was buffed so much. I exclusively play solo Q and my older P100 Nea & Claudette have a significantly higher escape rate than my newer Lara Croft main, even though I have significantly better game sense and running ability than in 2020-2022 when I was maining Nea and Claudette.
Apparently I've gotten worse at the game…nope. They just keep buffing killers so you can keep improving your skills and game knowledge as a solo Q player and your average escape rate will likely still decrease compared to years ago. It's a very lame feeling to not be rewarded for actually learning to play more skillfully. Joining a 4 man SWF with 3rd party comms and Reshade filters really just ruins the spirit of DBD…which is not CS GO.
What's more relevant is the escape rate in your past 30 days assuming you've been highly active, because obviously playing 1 match in the past 30 days won't be an accurate metric. Playing with a competitive 4 man SWF team will inflate escape rate, and so will having played a ton of hours played in the pre 6.1 era of 2020-2022.
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No surprise whatsoever. The stats just prove how easy killer is to play and that all the complaints about survivors needing nerfs and killers needing buffs are just killers being upset that their extended 3-4K streak was interrupted by a strong SWF team that actually provided a challenge. You can have a mere fraction of the hours on any given killer as you do with survivor, yet easily maintain a 60-90% kill rate. To achieve a similar escape rate in that range as survivor you need several times the skill and experience.
I also knew before these stats came out that people were greatly exaggerating the numbers of hours they've played the game. Streamers will brag about having 5K+ hours yet they just leave their game open while AFK or talking to their followers. Many of them probably do it on purpose so they can have a clickbait title like "10K hour Nurse winstreak!"
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No surprise whatsoever. The stats just prove how easy killer is to play and that all the complaints about survivors needing nerfs and killers needing buffs are just killers being upset that their extended 3-4K streak was interrupted by a strong SWF team that actually provided a challenge. You can have a mere fraction of the hours on any given killer as you do with survivor, yet easily maintain a 60-90% kill rate. To achieve a similar escape rate in that range as survivor you need several times the skill and experience.
I also knew before these stats came out that people were greatly exaggerating the numbers of hours they've played the game. Streamers will brag about having 5K+ hours yet they just leave their game open while AFK or talking to their followers. Many of them probably do it on purpose so they can have a clickbait title like "10K hour Nurse winstreak!"
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It doesn't fix rat behavior at all. Now "teammates" just farm you on hook even if the killer is across the map in chase, they just hold M1 on a gen while you go through all hook stages after you looped the killer for 3 full gens.
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It doesn't fix rat behavior at all. Now "teammates" just farm you on hook even if the killer is across the map in chase, they just hold M1 on a gen while you go through all hook stages after you looped the killer for 3 full gens.
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OP is 100 percent correct. The devs seem to want to make this into an RPG where playing killer is a power trip simulator, and playing survivor is a masochists wet dream. Unfortunately it doesn't make killers scary, it just trivializes player input and makes matches feel unrewarding. Stealth is almost non-existent at this point so the suspense and atmosphere from 2016-2020 is almost completely gone. Instead its a heavily lopsided "PvP" experience.
Sweaty 4 man SWF teams are able to compensate by basically cheating using filters and third party software like comms and equalizers to level the playing field but even they lose most of their matches. Meanwhile solo Q remains a dysfunctional mess with a broken MMR system and the fact that my escape rate is well above the average considering the caliber of my teammates is a miracle. I don't play in SWF so I'm constantly hard carrying the teammates I am queued with which is an exercise in tedium. It's the equivalent of playing Rocket League where you're playing in Champ rank yet constantly queued with Gold teammates against a Champ level killer who just steam rolls your teammates and you have to clutch to win a 1 v 1 against a killer that is designed to be 4 times as strong as you.
I literally was queued with a survivor with 90 steam hours when I have 3.5K steam hours just yesterday, and as expected I counted down from 10 while doing a gen and he went down well before I could get to 0, only to be tunneled off the hook for two more 10 second chases before he was dead. This sort of thing happens frequently and I am forced to play for hatch or get out the door in a 1 v 1, which I often do but only cause the killers I'm going against have inflated MMRs due to exploiting cheese tactics like camping, tunneling and slugging against the weak links on my team. And of course losing these matches lowers your MMR which means you will continuously be placed with unreliable teammates since the MMR system doesn't care that I did 3 full gens by myself and ran the killer 3 full minutes in the same match while running around saving and healing one teammate after another since they are incapable of running the killer for more than 10 seconds.
Oh yes, the game still stutters heavily on high end hardware and now the audio doesn't work properly. And the "go-next" mechanic just makes it so that your frightened teammates can just finish the remaining gens and leave the trial while they farm you through all 3 hook stages after you looped the killer the majority of the match and finally get hooked.
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Well the map offerings hardly provided an advantage to begin with because most of the offerings have killer-sided variants now, and you never know what killer you're going against. So it honestly doesn't change much. The game remains heavily killer-sided as all the stats are showing.
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Killers never have to tunnel to win unless they have an inflated MMR due to relying on tunneling instead of learning macro strategy and chase skill. Tunneling is just much easier to do for a beginner killer but will be more heavily punished as MMR increases.