jajay119
jajay119
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@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208321#Comment_3208321
I play mainly as survivor. 61% kill quote means that most of the time 2 survivors can escape. Technically this is a tie and not a victory for the killer. Wins for killers in terms of MMR are 3k or 4k. So killers need at least 75% kill quote. I myself playing bad as survivor still have a 30% escape quote. And I feel pretty happy with this quote.
That's not 'technically a tie' at all, not even close. A 2 kill two escape match is defined as a win for both sides by BHVR. Killers feeling like they need a 4k to win and expecting BHVR to build their game around that is a them issue and they're going to live very angry lives until they stop expecting it. So, 61% kill rate taking into account 2 kills is what BHVR are using as successful criteria.
I don't expect to escape every match, I don't expect all survivors to escape every match. That is an example of an exceptionally well played match. A 4k for a killer is the same: result of exceptional play - not I'm just gonna slug these last two people so 'I win'.
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@Huge_Bush said:
I don’t think it’s a bad idea (this doesn’t mean I think it’s great either). I just think the Mori rework is bad. I also think UnbreakaBill needs to do something different. There’s no need to have any perk speed up the meter progress of a slug.
A better idea would have been to allow the survivors to just speed up their bleed out while slugged.
And the killer gets a nice unearned kill? That would be an abysmal idea. Killers would just slug at 5 gens and wait for survivors to suicide... just like they do on hooks which lots of people complain about.
Basekit unbreakable is the best counter to the slugging for 4k epidemic that is happening because it gives survivors a fair chance to get back in the game if the killer chooses to waste their own time, run off and leave them.
It needs tweaking, sure. But I still think its the best change they could have done in principal.
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@Bran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207534#Comment_3207534
So the killer can get looped by that survivor for a ridiculous amount of time. Nothing to do with entitlement
It's everything to do with entitlement, if you refuse to realise the survivor is better at looping you than you are at catching them and continue to pursue, its no surprise the gens pop because you're refusing to come and chase People who suck at looping.... like me lol
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@My_Aespa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207686#Comment_3207686
I think camping and tunneling is more often necessary than the slugging technique just to provide the killer with more map pressure, but maybe that's because I don't have high MMR so I don't run into those toxic SWF teams that people mention. I'm not sure but I'm interested to see how this new update is going to turn out.
I don't know whether it's a regional thing but I see way more slugging than camping and tunnelling. I'd say, in all honesty, about 90% of matches where I am one of the last two survivors left the killer sluggs for the 4k.
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Does it only appear for the person being grabbed perhaps?
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@Bran said:
Not always the case that the killer is abusing survivors being downed. Simple as that.
But a vast, and increasing ,amount of time they are. Simple as that.
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@My_Aespa said:
There wouldn't be a way to make people stop camping and tunneling that wouldn't make people still play the game. What is the game gonna do? Teleport them away if the survivor they're chasing is just unhooked or if they're staying near a hook too long? They can't possibly make something reasonable to bypass it, since they are legit strategies.
To be fair, many times I've championed for all the hooks working like the cages of Torment where you get moved to the other side of the map as a very credible counter to camping and tunnelling.
Ironically though, I'd say now the slugging technique is more problematic and why its being addressed so much.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207549#Comment_3207549
And this form of basekit Unbreakable to fix that issue is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
I don't agree.
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It's not about slugging for Moris. It's about slugging constantly at 5/4 gens, or slugging the third player so you can run off and find the 4th.
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@Bran said:
Survivors being able to loop for ridiculous amounts of time is what the problem is.
Killers not realising they're wasting their time and going after someone else is what the problem is. You're not entitled to a down.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206275#Comment_3206275
tbh i don't even get the chance of fooling around, i chase one person and 3 gens pop, like how do i even play with any build but gen regression
No offence but if you're chasing one person, who is probably the designated 'looper' of the group, for like 2 minutes then that's a you problem. I see so many killers do this - no gen pressure, no attempt to break off and try a different approach. Its like they get blind sighted. I was on Eyrie of Crows and a Wesker was just chasing this one Jake round a rock while I was doing a gen right close by. He must have seen me. Even when the Gen popped he refused to change tact. Its hardly surprising that two other gens popped shortly thereafter. But I feel like he would be a prime example of one of these killers who screams about gens popping and SWFs when the actual reality is he have given up the chase. I'm not implying this is something you do, but there is a possibility, and I see a LOT of killers who do this.
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If by rework, you mean deleting from the game entirely. I agree.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204613#Comment_3204613
Most killers already just tunnel to win so what's the difference?
Honestly loving the vast irony of all these whinging threads after the general killer attitude over the last few months.
As you said, most killers tunnel anyway. Many killers slug and camp anyway... that's the whole reason this change has happened. Killer behaviour has been the cause of this effect (just as it was for the overuse of DH, not the inverse as was lovingly toted by many a killer, Ita not going to cause killers to do anything because they do it anyway. That's the point in making these types of seriously radical changes; because it was that much of an issue already.
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@ButterFlee13 said:
Pushing Killer to tunneling strats harder and harder it seems.
I hope so. Then they can have solid evidence to nerf that too!
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If Twins are playing fairly I don't even count it as slugging. Victor downs someone across the map then you have to return to the main killer body to go and get them. If there is another survivor on your journey it makes sense to go for them. Leaving the player downed in this instance is excusable.
I see slugging in about 80% of matches where there are two survivors left. This is probably why they're doing it, not because the odd killer loves instaslugging all 4 survivors. The former is getting stale.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200951#Comment_3200951
So like usual, its a nerf to the entire roster which upends multiple mechanics, perks, and addons all because people get annoyed with a thing nurse can do.
I'm confused. I thought we wanted a massive shake up of the game/perks/meta... or is that only when it benefits killers?
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Sounds like the same thing Survivors were saying recently and were told to suck it up. Seems fine to me.
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@Beatricks said:
Sounds like a skill issue.
SurvivorsKillers are just angry because they got a false sense of how good they are by constantlyrunning Dead HardSlugging and Camping, which carried them now they have to learn how to actually play the game. -
@Sumnox said:
Who fell for that anyway?
BHVR.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193858#Comment_3193858
Except hiding and not doing gens is literally against rules.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8RNTOHGYTA5K/84ea2128-227e-4f10-a0cb-181aa6e475f4.jpeg
I agree with that whole heartedly and it really annoys me when there are two of us uninjured left in the trial and one decides not to bother doing anything, usually when there is one gen left to do.
Except we aren't talking about two survivors 'just hiding and not doing gens'. We are talking about one survivor who refuses to be downed in a trap the killer has chosen to lay for them and has chosen to waste their own time by doing so. We are talkng about one survivor whom the killer is hunting directly and so evading them is part of the normal ganeplay. I doubt BHVR had this situation in mind, let alone how prevalent it is, when writing their rules. The killer refusing to hook someone for an extended period of time, leaving them down, could also be seen as refusing to participate in normal play, for example..
Like I said earlier, if you hook someone, rather than leave them down, the vast majority of the time someone will come in for the rescue because they see it as morenfair and make the assumption the game can continue relatively fairly. You coipd heal and do gens again. What happens if you try and save a downed survivor 3? You get downed and they chase survivor 3 again, down them again cause theyre injured or you just repeat the process ad infinitum until one of you dies. Like i said it may be valid, but its boring and needs addressing. Just as Dead Hard was boring and needed adressing despite being valid.
You can't blame survivors for not wanting to walk directly into an almost unavoidable trap after potentially working hard to survive all trial.
I don’t know why people think the survivor is obligated to give killers an easy kill They are literally the survivor. The entitlement, and irony, is insane.
Eveey time ive come into this thread ive said this needs addresing for both sides. This isn't about 'oh the killer should give me the hatch'. This is about ensuring a fun and fair experience for both sides for as much of the trial as possible. As the dead hard nerf proved, just because its 'valid' doesn't mean it doesn't need review when it becomes overused.
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The main building has one gen and then becomes useless to survivors to be anywhere near it. All the gens are out in the open in that map and there is always a heavy cluster towards the shack. I honestly end up with a three gen on this map so many times. The house is a waste of space really, I don't think it's that big an issue from my own experience. Killers still seem to do well it.
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@sulaiman said:
I doubt that basekit kindred would help. I had games where i run kindred, was on hook, and still 2 people come for the hook, both trying to outrun the other to get the unhook points.
The thing is, if everyone had baseline kindred and if everyone knew you could all see each other I think it would have more of an impact, because there is more direct culpability. I run kindred often and there is a visible difference in behaviour when I'm hooked, so they can all see me and each other, to when someone else is hooked and they can't see each other, only I can.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193858#Comment_3193858
It’s not exactly the same thing - unless the killer is prolonging the slug beyond when someone ordinarily would bleed out. A survivor can locker hop indefinitely.
It's exactly the same thing. Both sides are 'doing the objective' to the most efficient way. Killers are trying to get kills, survivors are trying to survive against increased insurmountable odds where doing gens is no longer the best solution.
Constantly trying to excuse one act as more permissable than the others, especially when there is a very clear cause-effect correlation at play, is a massive issue when both eventualities are boring and need addressing.
What I said above still stands, if you don't like 'wasting your time' then stop slugging and camping for an easy win... because survivors are getting wise and you're not getting it anymore. You're the architect of your own frustration.
Hook the survivor and allow a chance of 'normal play' to continue.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193907#Comment_3193907
It's a healthier mentality for sure. I'm not as upset as the op probably makes it seem, but I still have a long way to go when it comes to laughing stuff off.
Honestly I feel the game becomes a lot more bearable if you can get yourself to this place: toxic killers, survivors, end game chat etc all becomes much more bearable when you can laugh it off as a 'them problem'. Which is what it is.
I'm on Xbox so don't have the end game chat, but I do get a lot of salty DM's. My favourite hobby at one point was letting them rant, then responding really calmly and then blocking them before they could reply. The thought of them seething at themselves was quite funny. But I don't really bother anymore. Just onto the next match.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193875#Comment_3193875
Thank you captain hindsight.
Sarcasm doesn't change the fact you're subjecting yourself to it. You're in control of not being offended. So stop it.
I also recommend getting to the point where you find post game salt funny not annoying. Imagine being so annoyed about the outcome of a game. Its sad. Let them rant and feel sorry for them.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193872#Comment_3193872
Like i said both sides can be nasty. Both sides have nasty tactics to annoy the other ones. I hate survivors that hide for 30 minutes and are wasting my time and survivors that stand at the exit gates refusing to go out wasting my time again.
I'm not a super fan of slugger killers eather, i dont like staying in a match 15 minutes extra because of this.
I don't like lying on the ground for the time it takes me to bleed out whilst the killer, who already has a 2k kill rate under their belt, and so have had a successful match by BHVR's standards, runs off to try and find the fourth survivor who, quite rightly, won't come anywhere near me to heal because they know the killer is likely baiting and proxy camping.
I will gladly admit that I also have started not going near a downed survivor in this situation for this exact reason and im sick of handinf killers cheap 4ks on a silver platter. But if you hook someone and are not overtly camping I will go for the save.
You can say 'both sides can be nasty' but it's still being implied that slugging for the 4k is more acceptable than survivors hiding for the hatch which 'wastes time'. If you don't like your time wasted then hook the survivor and give a chance for a better level of play to continue. You (killers who do this) are the architect of your own annoyance in situations like this as you don't want to risk anyone getting the hatch.
Unfortunately this type of play is rampant and that why it needs addressing.
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Don't read the end game chat.
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@Hannacia said:
I compare it to survivors standing at the exit gates until the last second just to waste my time to bag me or show oh lookie i won.
I dont slug for 4k but yeah..both sides are very good at being annoying.
That is not a fair comparison imo. A fair comparison is killers standing on the hatch to close it when they see you approach, or killers who pretend they're going to let you open the doors only to down and hook you the second they open, or killers who hook you and stand there nodding or hitting you repestedly. They're all acts of trolling on both sides.
Slugging for the 4k is despite its flaws a way of doing the objective, so is the last two survivors hiding and waiting out each others' deaths to get the hatch. They're both valid tactics, but they're both just boring as Hell.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193631#Comment_3193631
Do you have a source for this?
I have heard from Paulie Esther that they rejected this idea one time but i've never seen a source for it.
I've never seen actual proof either.
I'd be willing to accept BHVR saying no to this if they were actually willing to offer an alternative, but they're not so I don't blame people for repeatedly asking for it. They need to know what their player bass is thinking.
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@My_Aespa said:
The killers are doing their objective, to not let anyone escape. That's like asking why are hooks so scary for survivors, because they could get killed. Some killers don't take their objectives as seriously as others so I haven't seen this behavior in a game in a long time.
So, let's tell killers to stop complaining about two survivors who 'just hide till the other one dies holding the game hostage' because they're just doing their objective and trying to survive; which is the real objective not gens, gens just facilitate the objective to a point. But they won't, because it's boring as is being slugged for survivors.
This is a fantastic example of a situation that needs addressing because whist they're both valid tactics they're inconducive to Good interesting play and it's rampant. It needs intervention.
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I'm seeing, well suspecting, a lot of aura reading cheating on killers at the moment and speed boos cheating for survivors.
I'm just getting too many matches where the killer just beelines for people without any of the usual conditions I.e. no BBQ, people not running around or injured. I had one Wesker follow me from one side of the Garden of Joy to the other when I was running Lucky Break and he had no line of sight on me to see where I was going, for example.
But also, I'm in matches with survivors who perpetually seem to have very long or indefinite sprint burst in the most overt cases of 'subtle' cheating and who always seem just that bit faster than me, getting ahead and coving more distance with no speed bonus perks. I'm sure there is more but this is just what I've seen this week.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3185937#Comment_3185937
I think we need time limit for trials. Let's say 25 minutes. But the problem is with that, who will win if both sides don't complete their objectives.
One set of doors should open automatically but survivors are not notified of which one and all survivor auras should be revealed to the killer for 30 seconds. Normal EGC conditions apply such as no DS/ Noed activates if brought as a perk.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184653#Comment_3184653
I really really hate to say this, as I hate players who say this, but... Sometimes it needs to be said. It's not the other players job to make sure you have fun.
Plus, you say that touching a generator with 2 survivors left is death, but that's not the case unless you as survivors messed up. There is a situation called a "3 gen" where all 3 remaining generators are on the same side of the map. If you do this, you lost and it's your fault. Take the loss and learn from your mistakes.
It's not only the case if you mess up, killers are notified of active gens. If one gen suddenly becomes active they're going to beeline for that area. If two gens are active it's a case of walking backwards and forwards which, with the increase in gen times and stacking of slow down perks, can be much more accessible to a killer than before.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184770#Comment_3184770
Which still ends the game faster than both survivors sitting around waiting for the other one to die. But I'd give it 1:3 odds on whether the killer even slugs for the 4k in the first place.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184805#Comment_3184805
No, you're still breaking the rules by trying to get your fellow survivors killed and employing the killer's aid to do it. As justified as it can sometimes be, there's no such thing as 'I'm no longer on the other survivor's team because they did something I didn't like.' It's certainly not a contract they agreed to.
Then you're playing very different matches to me because I'd call it 80/20.
Also, I'm not just advocating for what is fast. Just because its fast doesn't mean its most conducive for an optimal experience.
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One of the biggest gripes of having SO MANY Weskers at the moment is that I never seem to not be able to hear the TR and it's ridiculously irritating.
The TR is supposed to be a suspense thing. The killer is close, be careful.
When I've got kindred active and I am by the new outside gen on RPD and Wesker is upstairs by the STARS office corridor and I can still hear his TR it becomes tiresome and ridiculous.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184611#Comment_3184611
There is something you can do. Do the gens.
Killer then knows where you are, downs you and leaves you to bleed out while they run round endlessly to find S4 who, very rightly, doesn't want to buy into the trap and rescue you.
A good time for all, not.
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I'm sick if him. I'd welcome a basement camping bubba right now.
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Ways to allow this community to be even more toxic and another band aid where BHVR think they've addressed something but made it worse? Sounds great.
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Rather than increase gen repair speed per survivor lost, I would suggest a change to the tool kits so they don't increase repair speed but make it so the gen cannot regress past the point at which the tool kit ran out.
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I like nap offerings otherwise I seen to just get Gas Heaven endlessly.
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The only killers I find boring are Legion since the rework for obvious reasons, the Cenobite due to the consistent experience due to the Box and the Dredge because he's, as I see it, the most obnoxious killer in the game with way too much going for him.
Fortunately, Legion matches are going better due to people reacting more and learning to mend ASAP.
Dredge is very infrequent.
But I wish they'd address the box and chain hunt imbalanxd for PH and he would be a lot more fun to go against.
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@JacobiusWick said:
--Another important tip that should be mandatory reading before you play solo q--
DO NOT immediately race your teammates for unhook!
You have a whole a** minute that could be spent finishing gens if the killer isn't on you!! 9/10 games as soon as someone is hooked (including me) I immediately see all 3 survivors sprint like it's the goddang daytona 500 to get the unhook and waste all that gen time. Kindred or no, gens come first. So stay on them as long as possible, especially if it's a first stage hook. Most of the time, the killer is proxying anyways and waiting to get a trade...Please don't give it to them.
I agree with the premise, unfortunately the reality doesn't live up.
I hate it when people see you leaving the gen you're both working on to rescue... to then race you to them.
I try to stay on gens, but then people suicide on the hook if you don't make an effort to save within 10 seconds of being hooked.
Or, I wait it out then no one else bothers either and by the time I've ran across the map someone pops up for the save at the last second .
Lack of information for all is really the culprit here though. Base kindred, without being able to see the killer, would help a lot. That or activity statuses next to player icons.
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
You see Mikaela load into a lobby. Do you assume she's running Boon: Circle of Healing?
And if you do, are you annoyed if she doesn't, in fact, have the boon?
"Come on, Mikaela! The team is injured and there is no boon on this map!"
I'm a Felix and have ran CoH until recently. It's very rarely ever her anymore.
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@Fred_krueger said:
Experience
+1
It's 'random' to the point of favouring certain spots on a map. If you play the maps often enough you learn the general patterns, for example Badham tends to have it spawn on the main road outside the school or in the school basement (beneath the hole in the floor where you can drop down there from 1F).
Many maps used to favour the side of the shack with the two boarded up windows, but I think they've changed this.
The Game (meat packing plant) tends to favour the coridoor by the bathroom/basement or over by the set of stairs with the palate to the side.
RPD is unsurprisingly a nightmare as it can spawn upstairs too, the only map where it can AFAIK.
Etc.
One thing though, have they removed collision from the hatch before it becomes visible?
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@blue4zion said:
New rebecca perk just super buffed this tho
Use perk then do gens
ggez bby killer go ded
Can't wait for it to 'become meta' and get nerfed to 5 seconds.
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@KerJuice said:
I love the green key. I pair it with the ring add-on that let’s me always see the obsession’s aura in the entire map. Seeing only one teammate can surprisingly give you a lot of helpful info. The better/more active the obsession player, the more info I receive and the more efficient I can play. Obsession going for the save? Good- I can stay on this gen. Obsession in chase approaching my tile? Time to move. Obsession on death hook and in chase? Time to go over there and take a hit and a down, to get the killer off of him/her. And other various scenarios. It serves kind of like a 5th perk.
I think it's more removing the green key from being found mid trial, where its pointless as you want have an add on for it, not remove it from the game.
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The corn is great if you're a stealth survivor or if you have Lucky Break. The amount of times I've dashed into the corn and crouched and a killer has just walked right past me.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3178510#Comment_3178510
You dont use the logic at all.
It was said, Hatch is the same as Mori on the killer side.
Since Hatch got nerfed to only for one survivor, killers should only be able to Mori the last survivor aswell.
But not automatically as Initially and, to be Frank, abysmally suggested by BHVR. How they thought a good way to balance the scales was to give killers who most of the time in this situation would already have a 3k anyway, even more pressure in an often insurmountable situation boggles the mind. The sole survivor needs a fairer chance, given how quickly the killers are getting to the hatch and how infrequent keys are in trial, not less.
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@shitman said:
today I came across two games against bubba with camp builds, although I don’t like this style of play, my team causes me more negative
why don't they do anything? they can see very well that I'm being camped, they know they can't save me, but they just go around watching me hang on the hook, wasting time and not fixing the generators.
i don't understand the players who then cry in the chat that the game was not fair, you just let him win, learn to play against the camp, it's easy - fix the ######### generators and don't waste time on healing and searching for totems. why didn't bhvr make tips for dumb survivors, i'm so tired of getting into a team with such useless players.
bhvr make more hints or training because you can't fix the camp, teach the survivors how to stop it.
Because there used to be MANY idiotic players, many of whom were streamers, that would be incredibly toxic if you weren't making efforts to save them. I think the mentality around camping is changing now but it genuinely used to be different.