hermitkermit
hermitkermit
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I've played 6 matches so far, 1 was a 4 escape, the rest were all 4ks. Definitely a very strong killer. The ability to zoom in front, cut off the loop, and then switch to down is what I keep getting downed to, because I'm now in an open space so there's nothing to work with. It's still too soon to pass judgment, in my personal opinion. If I reach around 25 games and all but 1 or 2 are 4ks, then I'll probably have my opinion. It's fun seeing him zoom though!
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@wakesafe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903846#Comment_3903846
Yeah I can’t say that having to watch a YouTube video to understand a Killers power is great for the game or solo queue.
I don’t like a lot about this killer but watching him leap away with Kindred is amusing at least.I notice that I see his little tentacles all over the map with kindred on, even when he's out of range. It's like a little floating octopus zooming across the map.
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People’s reasons for tunneling or doing anything in the game vary from person to person. One person will tunnel cause they don’t like the skin you have on. 🤷♀️
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I mean, that’s really impressive? SWF, Sabo, Syringres, 2 p100, and on your very first match on a killer you’ve never played before— you got a tie.
If this shows anything I think it’s your high skill level. Using this match as an example you might be getting 4ks by your 3rd or 4th match. Well done!
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@buggybug said:
Yeah simply cause am that weirdo that believe for some games I must have every dlc, and dbd some how is one of them just like final fantasy
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/42ZGDF1NGEW4/1000000682.gif
Im like that with Sims… For clarification that's 76 total packs.. coming out to a total of $1,184 (though i dont actually spend that) but..yeah. I get what you mean by wanting all the packs for certain games lol gliyn!
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Your post brings up really compelling discussions about player behavior, belief systems, and the social dynamic of the game! I appreciate the in depth post and sharing your internal thoughts so vulnerably here online, especially after you've experienced some negativity already.
- Are your observations in alignment with my experience?
So, I actually played outside anonymous mode for a very long time, until just recently. Like, maybe two weeks ago recently. And I have since turned it back off, and now play with my name displayed again. Now, why I turned it on? Frankly, it was out of shame. There was a match on Midwhich against a Pig. And myself and two other survivors were left. One of them was on the hook, the gate was open. The other was dead hook, injured, and in chase. The hooked survivor was in the small outdoor courtyard between the two gates. I was headed towards that survivor to unhook when through the other doors came the survivor currently being chased by the pig. I was not injured, and I wanted to take a hit for the injured dead hook survivor, then run to get the unhook. But… I fumbled it. I tried to take a body hit and ended up body blocking. They went right and I went right, then I just stood still off to the side— but they did the exact same thing. They ended up getting downed. I felt awful. I ran to get the unhook, got downed after, and the pig left both of us slugged to get the recently unhooked survivor. It resulted in a 4k.
Now, in the after game chat I already started typing out an apology. Because I knew I screwed it up. And the person in question doubted that I didn't do it intentionally, they thought I purposefully bodyblocked them. I felt like a floundering fish, typing things out so fast, trying to explain myself, my mistake, and my intentions. They ended up saying that they wouldn't take it as malice, but told me to do better. Which, they're right. I messed up. And I felt so terrible that I was worried any of those other survivors, if they got in another match with me, would instantly lobby dodge. So that's why I put on the Anonymous mode. I played around a bit with it, but then after the shame wore off, and I gave myself some grace because It was a mistake, I had good intentions, It was a very unlucky situation with the hooked survior being right next to the running dead hook injured survivor, and me not anticipating the right angle for a body block, I forgave myself and went back to displaying my name.
Now, not in my specific case above, but in general, I believe that there's a mix of negativity bias (people focuisng on negative experiences more than positive ones) and Attribution error (blaming other's mistakes on their incompetence but attributing their own mistakes to external factors). I think when people send toxic messages after a game, it's because they believe their loss was caused by someone else rather their acknowledging the chaotic nature of DBD. Players do absolutely have a subjective understanding of "right" and "wrong" gameplay that doesn't always align with the game. Different levels of play, personal expereinces, and misinformation shape individuals beliefs of what "should" happen in a match. Luckily this person seemed to understand it was an honest mistake, but many would not have been so forgiving.
2. How often are you exposed to hate, anger, and frustation if you play without anonymous mode?
I do think this really depends on platform and MMR. I think console communities tend to be more vocal beacuse of the built-in messaging systems. But I do think that the mere existance of Anonymous mode is proof that toxicity is an issue. I do get some comments every now and then, from fellow survivors being like "you suck" to killers saying, "zzzz" But for the most part, typically nobodody says anything. I only played anonymously for a very short time, maybe 2 days or so? So my comparasion scope is rather small, but personally I didn't see much of a difference. I don't believe this is the common experience, however. I think I'm an outlier here.
3. What tools could help mitigate in-game frustration before it leads to post-game toxicity?
This is definitely tricky because the game doesn't allow in-game communications beyond 3 gestures. So there's no real way to de-escalate frustrations in real time. I have two possible ideas, these are just personal thoughts.
- An In-Game endorsement System that does something.
We do have the option after every match to 'give props'. I do this, but I do believe it has been confirmed that it actually doesn't do anything. BHVR has the data, but as of now, isn't doing anything with it. I think this is a great way to encourge positive gameplay behaviors rather than only focusing on negative ones. Perhaps the props given could equate to a BP bonus, unlock special cosmetics, charms, banners. etc. I think if people recieved occasional bonuses for good teamwork, good behavior, or smart plays, it would help shift the post-game conversations away from blame. Maybe even a gifting system of some kind could be implimented. I would LOVE to give a killer a nice fat Blood Point Basket because they let me get my glyph BEFORE downing me. Or send over a Blood Point Bouquet to that Adam who came back to unhook me after everyone else had left. Frankly, there aren't alot of incentives or rewards for trying to look on the bright side, so to speak. I'm sure that losing a match would sting a little less if your efforts were rewarded, especially by those on your team or even better, by the opposite team.
- More transparents Post-Game Data
I think alot of frustration can come from misunderstandings from what happened in a match. If players had access to more detailed post-game stats, it would really help put things into perspective. Like how much time each survivor spent in chase, doing gens, getting heals, totems, chests etc. It could help prevent snap judments or accusations. I'm not sure what kind of stats could be given to killers, as a survivors chase time would reflect the killers as well, but maybe how many hooks they gave to each survivor, how many times they kicked a gen or how many breakable walls.
Food for thought:
Your struggle here is valid. You want to contribute to a beter community but don't want to subject yourself to unnecessary negativity. Plus the responsibility that would put is not for everyone, I certainly don't think I'd be capable of that. But the unforutate truth is that changing deeply ingrained habits like people's negativity and ego, takes a long time and alot of effort. But leading by example, supporting good content creators or fellow good players, and encouraging behvaioral changes are all things we can do as a community to help see change. Engaging in discussions like this one, and pushing for solutions rather than just venting can also influence future game design. I think the best way to change a belief isn't through arguing in post-game chat, but through reinforcing positive behaviors and increasing transparency which will shift the community's mindset over time.
Your post is already doing the work of fostering the discussion, and that's an important step forward!
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@LockerLurk said:
I wonder if I change my avatar to a Survivor PFP, will people start upvoting my takes…?
I’m sorry you feel this way. I do believe it has everything to do with specific posts, and also that there may be more survivor players than killer players. Every 1 killer there are 4 survivors, and there may be more survivor player on the forums. I’m not sure.
I went ahead and looked at your comment, and I also looked at mine. I talked about how I thought it was burnout, that people play another match when they really shouldn’t cause they keep hoping from a better one. From your post, it seems you were talking about how people DC to just “crap on your team and the killer”.
I think the difference is that you may have the belief that DCs aren’t indicative of anything other than the person who DCd being a bad person. Whereas myself and possibly others see it as more of a symptom. I don’t support DC. And I have been screwed over many times by those that do it. But I don’t believe (majority) people just DC to be awful. There’s reasons.
Depending on specifics in the match, in that persons day, or what’s happening that we as a killer don’t see or that we as survivor teammates don’t see. DC should not be glorified, but it should not be ignored either.The DCs have never been this prevalent in the game in all its years of glory, which I feel is indicative of it being more than just some people trying to “crap” on others. I understand you may disagree, and that’s fine. But I just wanted to offer some perspective on a possible explanation of why the downvotes may have happened. Also, some people are just trying to troll, please don’t take it to heart. And please don’t stop sharing your opinions. They’re important. 💙
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@HeroLives said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KOMO5LGQALBO/img-0267.png
so like starting bottom right angle vertical, move to mid axis right, then move to y mid angle down for a nice face and mid pov, then move to left xy over shoulder to finish back at starting point. Am I making sense to an quadratic equation modelers?
Fantastic visuals. Do you secretly work for Bhvr? Was that torpedo drone of the skull merchant illustration your handy work? Haha 💙
In all seriousness, I do like your suggestion! -
@H2H said:
I think they’re pretty funny tbh, but I can see how they can also stifle discussion. I’d be fine with them being removed for that reason.
I think they’re entertaining too. It’s can be a bit eye opening as well. I’ve had conversations with someone in another post, just the two of us doing the nerf pig meme back and forth, and I would get 1 singular downvote every time lol many of my messages will have just that 1 single downvote and I’m like 🤔 someone does not like me very much.
But I do agree that as entertaining as they are, they can hold back discussions. Plus I’d hate for someone to feel really uncomfortable with speaking because they’re just worried they’re gonna get downvoted.
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One of my longest losing streaks was 23 in a row. Only 2 of which was I the only one that died, most were 4ks. It was definitely… humbling.
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I think statistically speaking, yes it is. The killer kill rates are right where they need to be for many, as are the survivor escape rates. But, it doesn’t necessarily feel fun or balanced.
In the same way that statistically speaking, killers like Clown or Nemesis do not need any buffs because their kill rates are both at 58%—But that doesn’t mean players that main them or play them feel like they are good where they are.
The same can be said for Survivor. Statistically they lose more than they win, as intended. Even in the highest MMR. Solo is right where the devs want it, at a 40%. But it’s arguably felt worse than it ever has. Most people will agree that Solo in particular feels awful.
So it’s a bit of a mixed bag. It is balanced in the way the devs want, with a higher kill rate and a lower escape rate. But just because more killers are winning doesn’t mean they feel satisfied, and just because survivors are escaping the intended amount doesn’t mean they feel satisfied either.
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First off, as a fellow parent, I understand the fear and frustration witnessing someone talk to your child that way. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, but this is very much not an exclusive DBD problem, it’s an internet problem—It’s a people problem.
There is already a filter for the after game chats to try and discourage this kind of talk. There is also a reporting feature for harmful comments. Beyond that, i’m not sure what else could be done. Completely disabling the ability to talk at all I feel is not a viable solution. You may disagree, and that’s fine. But it’s not as if the community, the Devs, or the game, accept or glamorize this kind of behavior. Trying to frame it as if it’s solely a DBD problem is not accurate, nor is it fair to the community.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902478#Comment_3902478
That's a fair question! I've built skill in looping because I had to, but I definitely prefer things like stealth and mindgames. I like the tension of hiding and knowing the killer is always on the verge of getting to me. Lights Out is a lot more like what I expected when I first started playing than what the game is now. I feel like shorter, tense chases are more thematically fitting than the way looping is played out. Looping feels less like horror and more like a racing game or something to me.
Admittedly, the game is balanced around looping in the current meta, and a game more like what I described isn't what people are interested in, so not much I can do to push the game in that direction :D
Ah, I see! Yes, that makes more sense. I do agree that looping doesn’t give off that classic sortve horror you’d expect in a horror game. Lights Out definitely followed that traditional vibe much more.
I feel Modern DBD is definitely at that point in the horror movie when the survivor is actively trying to fight back or just run away. It’s like exclusively the action part. It kind of breaks the traditional horror mold that way. Not to mention these survivors have faced these same killers over and over again, which also might take some of the “horror” out of it. Less scary of “omg what are you/who are you?” And more scary of “omg I don’t wanna die AGAIN because it’s painful”
I do definitely understand the appeal of a more traditional horror experience though. Here’s hoping lights out comes back to get our fix! 🍻
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@smurf said:
I have never thought looping belonged in DbD and don't really like it as a result.
From the killer side, it just feels kind of ridiculous. And from the survivor side, if I have some good chases, I do feel like l helped my team. But looping feels silly and cartoonish, not like something that belongs in a horror survival game.
So I'm not a fan of looping. It kind of makes me feel like I got bait-and-switched. Having said that, I'm still somewhat immersed in the community and for that reason, I haven't switched to another game. The DbD community is overall very pleasant to deal with compared with some other gaming communities, so that makes up for some things :D
Can I ask what you would prefer there be instead of looping? If pallets or windows didn’t exist, so looping wasn’t an option, I’m not sure if it would be possible to win at all as survivor.
I could see maybe a mode where there were no pallets or windows, but survivor would have to be silent, and leave no scratch marks. That would be nothing but stealth. Is that more so what you’d prefer in your preferred DBD gameplay?
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Congratulations! 🥳
Do you personally feel like there are any changes that should be made to her? Anything from movement speed, reload, number of hatches etc? Or do you feel she’s in a solid place?
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I think it’s burnout. So many people play another match when they shouldn’t. They keep trying to find another match because surely “this one won’t be as bad as the last one.” And that logic keeps going until your last 12 matches have been awful, and instead of just surrendering and playing something else for the day— they do it again. Kind of insane, literally, as it’s doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I speak from experience lol not from DCs or anything, but from hoping the next match will magically be much better haha. Because sometimes it is! And maybe, just maybe— this next match will be the much better one.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902195#Comment_3902195
imagine you use the salt pouches for lucky pallet spawns instead. I would die dead if that became a META offering.
Haha imagine! I'd finally have some kind of reason to use my surplus 48+ salt pouches lol
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Looping at its core I think is fun, and it’s also the main skill of survivor. But looping is somewhat RNG dependent, which can make it frustrating. It depends on tiles, maps, killers, resources etc. there’s just so many factors. You need more than just good looping skills, you also need good luck.
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Being able to practice is customs is a huge tool you can take advantage of. You can equip your survivors with the “sweatiest” perks and items. You can replay that map over and over again, to practice all the tiles, learn what gens worth protecting, learn what loops are strong and how they may run them, and experiment with different perks and builds of your own. Now of course, not everything is possible to replicate in customs, but having the ability to control everything in the game except for how the bots specifically move, is an incredible way to practice.
I wish you luck in your next!
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That is really messed up. They said abolutely nothing offensive. How could you talk to someone like that?? Maybe log off and take a breather. This is a game. Seriously.
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@Gandor said:
Boy legion is going to be THE noob stomper. He was already bad, but with those buffs…
The last stats released showed Legion at a 58% killrate. So it will be interesteing for sure to see whhere the buffs put them at, as they're already in a pretty healthy spot killrate wise. Time will tell!
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@Ginnypig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900591#Comment_3900591
I couldn't care less about the gen speed, it was just funny to show that it is possible in the first place. And after the event where survivors earned 400 % more bloodpoints, wel lets says alot of survivors are stacked.
I always had the assumptions survivors have the power role, with these matches its just showing clearly.
hence, why there is a term called bully squad and where tournemant have to ban half the survivor perks to have a fair match going.
my 2 cents
Oh, my mistake, I thought the main grievance was about “gen rushing”. I guess I’m not sure I understand. How can survivors be in the power role when they have a 40% success rate? And if you want to count the top MMR, which is the top 5% of the player base, including those crazy strong 4 man SWFs that occur 3-6% of the time, (according to the last time we got stats) then that success rate is 48%. 8% more than SoloQ, and still less than half. Why do you consider the role that’s been statistically proven to be weaker, the power role?
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I understand the frustration you may feel, and I’m sorry for that. The issue is that the stats show that every killer is performing well. All killers statistically win more then they lose, as intended, which is goods. (Though QOL updates are still needed for several)
What that means however is that if gen times are extended, then those kill rates will likely increase and be higher, which will push killers past the overall general success rate of 58%. Now if it only pushed an extra 2, resulting in a 60% kill rate, I would be in support of that, as it’s what the devs intend. But the risk of course does come with that kill rate becoming higher than 60%, in which case I don’t agree with it being the right choice for the game. I don’t see much of an incentive for people to chose the survival role when the chances of winning are less than 40% by default. I also worry it would put more strain on Solo Q, resulting in more survivors opting to SWF instead, which in turn only adds more stress to killer players.
I’m not sure what the best solution would be, as gen times are very sensitive and can drastically change the game from the smallest of tweaks. But I do understand the frustration of feeling like they’re too fast.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899149#Comment_3899149
People don't actually expect both sides of the game to show empathy. This is proven by the upvote/downvote system on these forums, where the majority of the time, it's very survivor sided.
This means that a lot of survivor players are voting in their own self interest, instead of voting out of empathy. It also implies that killers show empathy for survivor problems, way more often than survivors show empathy for killer problems.
I’m trying to understand the goal of this discussion because every time I address a point, the focus shifts.
First, you said people don’t care when SWFs annoy killers, so why should they care when killers annoy survivors? I pointed out that plenty of people do care about SWF, and it’s widely discussed.
Then, you shifted to saying SWF complaints get downvoted while slugging complaints get upvoted. I explained that this isn’t proof that one side is ignored, just that there are more survivor players, and the issues of gen rushing and slugging are viewed differently.
Next, you argued that survivors dismiss killer frustrations by saying, “gen rush isn’t real,” and that’s a lack of empathy. I pointed out that both "sides" do this. Killers tell survivors to “just loop better” all the time. And ironically, you started this conversation by dismissing OPs frustration in the same way you're accusing others of doing to you.
After that, you pivoted to saying slugging doesn’t need to change because survivors already lose agency on hook. But that contradicts your earlier complaint—if dismissing killer frustrations is bad, why is dismissing survivor frustrations fine?
Now instead of addressing that, you’re arguing that survivors lack empathy because of forum upvotes. But upvotes don’t measure empathy, they measure agreement. More survivor players means survivor-favored opinions get more engagement. That’s not a lack of empathy, it’s just math. That’s like saying Blight has less empathy for survivors than Wraith does just because his kill rates are higher.
At this point, I don’t know what we’re actually talking about. If the point keeps shifting, how can we make progress? Discussions work best when both people engage with each other’s points instead of replacing them with new ones. So, what exactly are we trying to resolve here? If the goal is fairness, then dismissing the other "sides" frustrations, like you did at the start, doesn’t align with that goal.
If you want to discuss killer frustrations, I encourage you to make your own post about it. There are plenty of very frustrating things that killers have to deal with. And if you're really frustrated and just need to vent that's totally understandable and I'm sorry you're dealing with that frustration. But hijacking someone else’s post just to invalidate their frustration and insist yours are worse isn’t the way to do it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898964#Comment_3898964
I’m not saying killers have it worse. I’m literally saying we should care about BOTH sides or neither side.
And the fact that slugging takes away player agency, isn’t a valid reason for it to be changed. DBD is a freeze tag game. It’s normal for survivors to be stuck on a hook, which removes player agency. Being slugged on the ground, isn’t less player agency than being stuck on a hook, (except for hook ragequitting, which is against the game rules).
You just argued that survivors dismissing killer frustrations is a lack of empathy, yet now you’re dismissing survivor frustrations about slugging in the same way. That’s the exact double standard I was pointing out. If telling killers “gen rush isn’t real” is invalidating, then so is telling survivors that losing agency to slugging “isn’t a valid reason for change.”
Distortion was criticized as unhealthy because it allowed survivors to bypass every aura reading killer perk, and by doing so resulted in the same people getting chased, and they could still escape. Slugging does the same thing—bypassing key survivor perks and circumventing the main loop of the game (hooks) while achieving the same result (death).
If player agency matters, then it matters across the board.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898872#Comment_3898872
That's not the correct analogy. When killers say they are having a bad day because of gen rushing, survivors will say "your definition of gen rush isn't valid. You're not having a bad day".
How is that empathic? How is it empathic to tell other people their complaints aren't valid?
The bad day analogy still applies. If someone says they had a bad day and you respond with “Well, I have worse bad days, so I don’t care about yours” that’s just dismissal. And that’s exactly what you’re doing right now. You’re arguing that survivors constantly invalidate killer frustrations, but in the same breath, you’re dismissing survivor frustrations by insisting killers have it worse. Invalidation happens on both “sides” and acting like it’s only one way is simply not true. Survivors get told “just loop better” just as often as killers get told “gen rush isn’t real” Both roles have people who try to shut down the other’s complaints.
Pretending it only happens to one “side” just proves the very point you’re arguing against—you’re doing the exact thing you claim to be calling out.
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@Shodan79 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898775#Comment_3898775
Its just irrelevant to this topic.
I understand it feels like comparing apples to oranges. But sometimes conversations sortve trickle into others. It’s like someone complaining about lightborn. But you can’t talk about why lightborn is important unless you bring up flashlights/flashbangs. So then the conversation goes to flashlights, to saves, to hooks etc. Sometimes the conversations sortve branch out from the roots but it’s all still connected to the same tree. Still though, sorry if my conversation annoyed you. It wasn’t my intent.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898775#Comment_3898775
Complaining about SWFs is a good way to get massively downvoted, and complaining about being slugged is easy upvotes. That's the difference.
Discussion around SWF and their impact on the game has been ongoing for years with plenty of people advocating for restrictions, penalties, or outright removal. Just because complaints about SWF aren’t always well-received in certain spaces doesn’t mean they don’t exist or aren’t taken seriously. There are also more survivors than killers so you’re bound to see more people unite over something that directly affects the majority of players. The difference in reception comes down to perception. Many see SWF as part of the intended social experience of the game, whereas slugging is viewed as a mechanical issue that directly affects player agency. That doesn’t mean one is ignored while the other isn’t— it just means the conversations around them are different.
If someone talks about having a bad day and your response is that you have worse bad days, it doesn’t help get your point across. It just gives off the impression that you lack empathy and don’t think an issue should matter unless it’s one you personally struggle with.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898763#Comment_3898763
Why should people care if killers are purposely trying to annoy survivors, if the majority of players don't care when literal SWF bully squads are purposely trying to annoy killers?
We should care about both or neither.
People do care. There are plenty of people that complain about their frustrations with SWF just like there are plenty of people that complain about their frustrations with Slugging. Many people have also voiced wanting to delete the ability to SWF altogether or to give penalties to those playing within it.
SWF is definitely not an ignored topic of discussion in this game or on these forums.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/440757/solo-q-survivors-are-you-having-fun
Meh, I guess it'd depend on the day.
I don't enjoy going on 20+ losing streaks but there are some games that I do enjoy even if I lose.
I definitely don't like being finisher mori'd and I still think that update was dumb and equally as unnecessary, regardless of what people might say. (There was and STILL IS a mori offering for a Reason.)
BHVR still refuses to fix window/pallet vaults and being hit from 10 miles away, they still refuse to address the SluggingFest to ensure the finisher mori or that 4K
I sometimes get teammates that play like they just started.
There are still killers with insane kits that make it seem like they can just do everything (Dracula.) or, are completely insufferable to play against. (Twins.)
But, i'd be lying if I said there wasn't some matches where even if I do die, i had a fun killer to play against. It just depends on WHO the killer is and their personality.
SoloQ has always been ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE though, for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since 2018-2019. Any time there's any update or change to any Killer/Survivor/Map, I set my expectations for BHVR a little bit lower because it's often obvious that they're not aware of the very community they're pushing away lmao.
So, the bar is in hell for "If I can enjoy a match" and trust me, rock bottom has a basement.Truly felt this. You've explained the feelings perfectly.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898388#Comment_3898388
So you think nurse should get buffed then?
I know she’s been bugged for a very long time, and that should absolutely be fixed. QOL updates for her field of view and things like that should also definitely be fixed. After those things it would be nice to see where her kill rates are at, and if she is still under that 60% where the Devs would like her, then she should receive help.
Probably less to do with buffing more blinks or shorter cool downs, but more about making her feel less clunky or intimidating to newer players. The Devs haven’t seemed to make any distinction between her kill rates and their overall goal of kill rates , so I have no way of knowing if they would like her personal kill rate to be the same as the other killers due to the somewhat “broken” potential she has, but I don’t think that just because she has the potential to be as deadly as possible, means she shouldn’t be included in the Devs overall goal of a 60% kill rate unless they want her specifically to have a different one, nor do I think players that play her should simply deal with the bugs or QOL issues just because she’s the strongest thing in the game. Those players deserve the same kind of support the rest of the game gets, regardless if they're playing the strongest thing in the game. In my opinion, of course.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897985#Comment_3897985
Other than the last time, she is always the worst, the doctor was only lower because of the AFK bot epidemic that they already acknowledged.
According to those same stats, Hillbilly was right above doctor and below Nurse, but I do believe that was before he got his buffs.
In any case, if she does have the lowest kill rates, then the lowest kill rate is 55% , which does still mean she wins more than half of her matches on average. I think fixing her bugs and giving some refreshing QOL updates could very well bump up that last 5% so she wins 60% of the time instead of 55%.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897553#Comment_3897553
Thats precisely my point.
One of 2 things is true.
Do you balance the game around average level players, or top level players?
If you balance the game around average level players, then you MUST by DEFINITION contend with the fact that the nurse is one of, if not THE lowest kill rate killer in the game.
If you balance the game around high level players, then you MUST by DEFINITION contend with the fact that survivor teams like this DO exist, and do something about it.
I believe the Doctor actually had the lowest in the game, with a kill rate of 51%. Nurse is 55%. Which, if they want a 60% kill rate for every killer, then yeah she would need something to boost that up an extra 5%. But the average kill rate for all killers was 58%.
So while Nurse doesn’t have a 60% kill rate, she still wins more games than she loses, as does doctor, which supports the idea that she is still performing well, which is a good thing.
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Something I don’t understand is why second chance perks are seen by some as “hand-holding” when the entire survivor role is intentionally built around having multiple chances. Survivors are designed with three health states specifically because the game is asymmetrical—the killer is always stronger in a 1v1, and it’s because of this that survivors are not meant to die instantly.
Many people argue that second chance perks “reward failure” because they activate when a survivor is downed, yet must also acknowledge that survivors must be able to be downed for the game to even function and intentionally designed to be downed 3 times and still possibly die. If a survivor was meant to die immediately upon their first down or first hook, with no “second chances” the game would have been designed that way from the start. But that isn’t how DBD works. The entire balance relies on survivors having multiple opportunities to extend their survival.
My issue with the argument against second chance perks is that it feels inconsistent. If multiple health states and escape mechanics are necessary to keep the game balanced or even functional for the survivor role, then it follows that perks designed to help survivors last longer in the match aren’t fundamentally breaking the game but working within the intended structure that’s already there and always has been.
If someone takes issue with that, I feel the real question isn’t whether second chance perks are unfair, but whether they think the entire design of the survivor role is flawed. If survivors shouldn’t have perks that activate once they are injured or hooked, then they need to be much stronger and more difficult to down or hook in the first place. The game r is intended for survivors to have 3 chances at life, because of how oppressive the killer is in a 1v1. If they should only have 1 life, then the killer can’t be as oppressive as they are now, which just means that DBD wouldn’t be DBD anymore.
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Just wanted to pop In and say thank you for the tip, and I’m sorry people have been demonizing your intentions. Not long ago you were the one who gave me the locker tip when knock out was in play. I was really thankful for the advice and it sucks to see you doing the same thing for others and then getting baselessly attacked.
Honestly, I try very hard not to fall into the us vs. them slope. I try and catch myself if I’m leaning one way too much or not being sensitive to an issue I may not have extensive knowledge about. We all have our personal biases. But watching this kind of thing unfold certainly doesn’t help with trying to keep my personal bias in check. Sharing a simple tool tip somehow turning into accusations about entitlement, ignorance or laziness is truly baffling.
It only feeds false validations of unfair generalizations of roles.
Sorry your post has become that. Thanks for the tip Mary. It is appreciated.
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🥀🌹💐😔goodbye mega mind
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Sounds fun! 🤩
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884268#Comment_3884268
Most sane comment in the thread.
DBD is supposed to be Killer sided. The reality is that it's SWF-sided. If you're playing Survivor, you need to be okay with losing.
Wait, before you strawman, I didn't say (nor do I mean) that Survivors should always die and Killer should always win. It's called Dead By Daylight, not Survive By Daylight. The Killer is supposed to be a scary, oppressive force that you aren't likely to escape from. But you can if you're adaptable, smart, and have good gamesense.
I believe a lot of the game's inherent flaws and issues can be rectified by buffing solo Survivor up to the level of SWF (with more info, bsaekit info perks, ping system/text chat etc.) and buff Killer to compensate.
I do agree with most of what you've said. I think where we may differ is only in regards to SWF, only because the survival rate of most SWF is 3% more than Solo, at a 43% escape rate. I personally don’t think thats a problem. The top 5% of SWF have an escape rate of 48% and an occurrence of 3 - 6% so while they escape more, they still lose more than they win, and they’re also a very small minority, similar to Nurse and Blight. Which is why I feel when it comes to SWF, like Nurse, many criticisms about them statistically don’t measure up, but I do understand the frustration behind them and am not opposed to some kind of changes to makes them less frustrating.
But I do agree with the core of what you’re saying, as I too, want the killer to be scary and oppressive and am okay with survivor being challenging. It’s not as if games where you’re designed to die a lot aren’t successful or fun. Dark Souls games are famous for that and wildly popular. I think it’s just the difference about losing in Dark Souls often feels justified as it’s your own mistake while in DBD you can die very often from mistakes that you never made, or things that feel very bad to lose by (like being bled out or something).
Thanks for your perspective! :)
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People are people and sometimes people suck. In the future, it's best not to spend your time arguing with them in post game. I would take your own advice, and just say GG and leave.
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There is no built in game buff that is automatically given to players who are SWF. The success of SWF is still reliant on the players themselves. They have to communicate effectively, and still do the same objectives SoloQ has.
Statistics show that 4 man SWFs have an escape rate of 40% and in high MMR, which is the top 5% of players, an escape rate of 48%.
Solo has an escape rate of 40%So the vast majority of SWF do not win much more than Solo. If you want to talk about the top 5% of SWF, than sure they win about 8% more than Solo, but they are also a minority and have an occurrence rate of 3% - 6%.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Both sides are right and wrong at the same time. It's like Schrodinger's cat. It's everywhere and nowhere.
The only nuance in the conflicting sides.
The survivor side consists of casual people who are attracted by the fun. While the killer side consists of competitive people who play as if their life depends on it.
The right question we can ask is. Why do only competitive types of people find playing as a killer attractive?
I really like this point! I think it has to do with both the teamwork element, and the intention of the power role.
If you’re super competitive, you don’t want to suffer from a mistake that someone else made— and that’s what most of survivor is. It’s a lot of collective punishment.
Also, if you’re super competitive you want to be the one who sets the pace. Picking your killer, your playstyle, and your perks will dictate what the survivors have to do to win, and seeing their items can also help you tweak that control. It’s kinda like you’re the one setting up the obstacles and also competing at the same time.
Whereas the survivor role is about reaction or adaption to the kind of game the killer is playing. Success comes from how well they can do those things.
Although to be honest, I think it’s strange how so many casual players pick survivor considering the knowledge required to be good at survivor right now is quite extensive. As a killer you have to learn how to counter looping, killer perks, survivor perks, maps, and get to know your killer. But every match you play as your killer you get better and better in understanding them. While in survivor you have to learn how to loop, killer perks, survivor perks, maps, and how to counter all 38 killers while having no control over which ones you face or how often you face them. There’s a lot of time and knowledge required to be somewhat competent against every killer.
I think it used to be very causal friendly, but modern DBD is anything but, I believe. At least not without some kind of ability to practice against bots similar to how killers can.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
If I remember correctly, the changes to Flashlight clicking and the timing of Flashlight Saves were done in separate Updates. The timing of Flashlight Saves was changed when they removed the possibility to save someone when they are grabbed out of a Locker by the Killer.
I also dont think that the clicking was removed due to epilepsy (there are still things in the game which can trigger it, e.g. you have flashing light bulbs), but simply because Killers complained about it. Remember, those are the people who brought BHVR to change "Entity displeased" to "The Entity Hungers"…
When it comes to usage, I would simply say that making Flashlight Saves easier is certainly an aspect, but I think the main reason is simply that Medkits and Toolboxes have always been better (Flashlights are a pretty weak Survivor-Item and I never got the complaints about them, because every Survivor who is bringing a Flashlight is not bringing a Medkit and therefore way better for the Killer if they pay a little bit attention…) and that the game shifted more towards Killers so if you want to win, you cannot just equip a Flashlight anymore and be basically idle and just follow the Killer to get a Flashlight Save. This might have been a thing years ago that one Survivor could completely ignore the Objective and the Survivors still had a good chance of winning, but this is not possible anymore. If you have a Dude with a Flashlight not doing Gens, you will lose the game in 2025.
Sure, there are still players who dont care, but most players also want to escape and are therefore forced to do the Objective. And since Toolboxes speed up the Objective and Medkits make the team overall more efficient, they are used more often than Flashlights.
That’s an interesting perspective. Honestly, hearing that it may have caused seizures for some people is really sad so im glad to hear that it’s been changed. Because being sensitive to people’s conditions or things like that Is very good, especially when it’s not necessary. I do feel that way about Plague, as many people start to vomit if they hear vomit. I’ve also heard some people have issues with Clown as well, due to the constant coughing or the effects the potions give them. It would be nice if people could toggle off the audio and visual effects in the same way they stopped flashlight spamming from people with light sensitivity. Maybe in a future update or something.
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For me it always depends. If a person was amazing in the game, like super friendly or a great looper or something I will 100% die for them. I will purposely end myself on hook after they are rescued to ensure they don’t try to rescue me and then accidentally end up dead.
If it’s a person that’s being camped by like a Bubba or a Trickster then honestly it depends on the team. If it’s just me then I can’t make the save and will just leave. If it’s me and another person or even 2, it really depends on how the game has been played. If we’re all dead hook, and barely made it to end game then I don’t feel confident the team can pull off a save then I’ll leave. But if everyone heals up and runs to the hook together like a swarm, I’ll totally join.
If everyone is slugged and the killer already knows where I'm at then yeah, I would leave too. Sorry you got some rude people! I wish you luck in your next matches with kinder teammates!
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@iOverSpray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881861#Comment_3881861
Winning your games and the game being fun to return to are completely different things. High tier killer is a simulator of the same old every game. If you played a year ago, now you get to hook a survivor 4 times instead of 3, you can't dodge a flashbang (people don't find an issue here?), you can chain otr into ds into a dh allowing survivors to take 4 hits before that 4th hook stage, Kicking gens is irrelevant as it does jack all now and in return, you as killer can mori the last survivor without an addon!
I mean, yeah the core gameplay will always be the same. New perks and new killers and new maps that you will have to adapt to as any player in either role, but the core of killer and the core of survivor won’t change. Otherwise it wouldn’t even be DBD anymore.
In any case, many people find it easier to have fun when they win more than they lose. So, that’s why I said statistically speaking killer is fine, and still worth it, because you will win more.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891771#Comment_3891771
I believe we need a report category for Go next to ensure players get punished now that reporting is ok now
There is a “rage quit” option for reporting. I usually do it whenever someone quits very quickly. I’m unsure if it actually does anything but, I do it anyway.
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I think that’s a great idea. 🤗 really not much more to say than that haha sorry. But I agree with you!
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In my opinion, Slugging is a tool like any other in the game, but its current state lacks the balance typically seen in other tools.
I can get into the nitty gritty of that all, but when compared, it’s clear how slugging has the potential to be problematic, as even its dedicated counters are significantly weaker than slugging itself.
If slugging was a perk, it would likely have cooldowns, require a perk slot, activation requirements, or restrictions—highlighting how unbalanced it is compared to other tools. (Aside from tunneling)
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891793#Comment_3891793
I got 3 failed games in a row before I finally came to the conclusion that my fun Pig games wasn't happening and just turned off DBD that day. Pig OP, plz nerf.
It’s the Snoot— it’s too powerful
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891786#Comment_3891786
Were never going to get to the point where everyone universally agrees every perk, addon, killer, and map are perfectly balanced and fun. You kinda have to just do what BHVR is doing and setup both a penalty WHILE tweaking balance things instead of waiting for AFTER perfect balance is achieved.
Yeah, I agree with that. Everyone has different tastes and strengths and things. One person that can easily deal with a perk or a killer could be really difficult for someone else. The penalty should be helpful, and I’m assuming certain perks like slippery meat or things similar that are in play that it will be balanced differently around it.
In any case, sorry you got DCs! Thats unfortunate.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891771#Comment_3891771
The problem with fixing the cause in this case is sometimes... the cause is ridiculous. I get ridding the game of OP stuff, but if your just offing yourself because you got found first and outplayed, there's nothing to fix.
True. I guess there’s just so many factors that it becomes pretty much impossible to try and “fix” everything cause at the end of the day anyone can find a justification to do anything for any reason. Humans kinda suck like that I guess lol.
Hopefully the stricter penalties will help.