hermitkermit
hermitkermit
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Tier list debates aside, the simple truth is survivors have no reliable way to practice the fundamentals. There are 39 killers, each with their own counterplay, over 250 perks to learn, and 39 maps. Whether you think survivors or killers are stronger, the reality is that survivor has become an increasingly knowledge-heavy role with no tools to actually learn. It is trial by fire every time. It's not always a skill-issue, I think many times it's more of a skill gap, with no resoureces/tools to close it. Survivors would benefit greatly from a practice mode in the same way Killers already have one. Custom bot matches, where you can control every detail down to the items, perks, maps, ect. The list gets bigger and bigger with every new addition, which means the gap gets wider, and the pile of knowledge required to be competent increases—without even considering the amount of time/practice you have to do in order to utilize that knowledge you have.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I don’t understand why the last survivor remaining can disconnect the moment they go down, and have it count as a draw. Like, I get that you want to prevent extended slugging, but add like a 30-second timer to it or smth, cause now the last survivor can just deny an L.
I feel like an abandon should be a loss, regardless of who is doing it or why. When it comes to 4 man bleed out slugging, abandoning is not the solution for that, nor is it the solution when survivors are hiding in end game refusing to touch gens. Abandoning should always result in a loss, but still be presented at certain stages for the convenience of going to the next game when the requirements are met.
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Would it really be so bad if an abandon will always = a loss regardless of which role does it? What’s the point of making abandoning a draw in any scenario ?
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He does feel very powerful/unfair at times. Like maybe he's slightly overtuned. I'd like to wait until they release his killrates, so we have an idea if he is overperforming and then how much. I can enjoy facing him, he has the potential to be really cool and fun. But being able to be hit through walls, from bottom floors to the top, things like that really put a bad taste in peoples mouths. Content creators are people too, at the end of the day.
I mean, I got hit by a Rize once when I just got unhooked, and she was hooking someone else from up on one of those hills across the map by the wall. Immediatly I ran, went through shack as it was in the middle of the map and right next to my hook, and was turning the corner when she managed to get me while I was pallet side, and she was across the shack, standing at the open door. The tentacle went through the gen, opposite sides of shack but the hit still registered. I tried to slam down the pallet right after, and the prompt didn't show up because it propelled her forward so she blocked the pallet so the pompt wouldn't pop up, and when it did pop up it was too late and I went down.
I got it on video, so I stop-watched it, and it was 11 seconds from when my feet touched the floor and I was downed (you can hear me spamming the spacebar at the pallet in desperation lol🙈) The sound effect from the other person getting sacrificed right before I got unhooked hadn't even ended yet by the time I was down, and over the shoulder. That kind of stuff… feels really bad. I mean I just got off the hook and immediatly ran, not staying under it, but it didn't end up mattering. I was on the other side of shack and it didn't end up mattering. Pallet was still up in shack and it didn't end up mattering.
I think he's slightly overtuned but not OP, and I think he can be really fun to vs. But again, I'm not sure because I havent seen the stats/data yet. It could come out and his killrate is 60% which would mean he isn't overtuned at all, so my opinion is kinda shaky and not definitive because I don't have any facts to back it up yet. All I can go off of is how it feels and some videos of those crazy downs or hits he's managed to get through walls, across rooms, etc.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919733#Comment_3919733
There arent official stats, I have just been collecting data from people who, like me, enjoy keeping spreadsheets on average rates while playing the game, some I personally know, some from reddit.
We tend to have relatively accurate numbers too, as an example, in games where we had access to all steam profiles we ended up with about an 40% escaperate on soloq, 41% on duo's, 45% on 3 man and 47% on 4 man, all rounded ofcourse, but still pretty close. Since, on average, that translates to about a killrate of 63%. Which sounds odd, but is mainly due to the fact that survivors can play more games in 1 hour than killers can. If a killer plays 3 games and gets a 4k in 2 of them and a 2k in 1 of them, those same survivors could have played 5 games in which they died in only 2 of them.
During the blood event, when playing survivor, on average we found that killers got a killrate of 57% where survivors got an escaperate of about 46% on average. I personally went on vacation during most of the event, so the dataset available is smaller and thus more biased. But I wouldnt be surprised if the killrate was actually about 54% and the escaperate at 48%, which, genuinely would be quite surprising. The main reasons we saw killers lose was because they didnt know how to use hooks to their advantage, and the main reason we saw survivors lose was because they didnt know how to deal against strategic hooks. That, and slugging ofcourse. But tunnelling was punished by survivors rushing blood gens, and survivors rushing gens was punished by getting them hooked in the center of 2/3 blood gens.
I think for Reddit you would have to dig down about 40 posts of the last person posting their stats tho.Oh, okay. Thanks for the reply! And I think it's awesome that you track your games like that, thank you for sharing your results.
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Extreme bias and heated language aside, I think there's a fair point in there. If nothing but bots are hooked and one survivor is slugged, I don’t see the harm in bots trying to get off hook after a short delay to help speed up the endgame. Maybe a built-in timer to wait out perks like Unbreakable or potential rescues, and then they automatically start trying to unhook. (I also don't think bots should be able to actually get off the hook either like a true 4%) That way you can still mori before bleed-out.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915780#Comment_3915780
I can very easily contradict your entire statement by simply saying: blood event still had a killrate higher than 50%, despite corrupt intervention and gen regression not working, despite blood gens being generally faster to finish.
Besides, Corrupt Intervention rarely shows up when I playJust curious, can you tell me where the stats are for the blood event killrates? I haven't been able to find them anywhere.
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I agree 100% Also, randomize the items/add-ons. Truly random and chaotic fun.
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Yeah, I’ve gotten some bad luck tonight too. I’ve played 5 matches so far, it was a total wipe out for all 5. My last one I got immediately tunneled out and that was pretty much my sign to get off.
Will try again tomorrow! Maybe luck will change
Update next day: 4 matches, 3 were stomps inclduing a good ol' slug hump, and the 4th one the killer Ken quit and went afk. (I think they had to do something irl cause he could have very easily one the game but he kinda just stopped mid chase) So…that's 1 win, kinda lol.
Yeah, 1 out of 9 matches, it being an undeserved win because of afk…I don't think the numbers are on my side for this go round. I'll probably just stick to regular, as I can at least get some value from my perks. Good luck in your next matches everyone! -
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916850#Comment_3916850
Don't know why this got downvoted, but the point stands true for most killers.
The best way to counter a killer is to play as them, and learn counterplay from watching the opponents you get, like the best ways to loop and evade and such.
Example: I used to struggle a lot against Wesker in the beginning, but after I started playing him myself, I find him very fun and engaging to play against, since I now know how to counterplay against him.Just for clarification on why I disagreed— I don’t think what they said is necessarily wrong…playing a killer can definitely help you understand their mechanics better. But I disagree with the idea that it’s a reasonable/accessible solution for most players. Expecting survivors to buy every killer they struggle against, then invest time learning to play those killers—just to improve their ability to run away from them—feels like a high annd uneven demand. Especially when you consider that survivors don’t have access to any real practice tools of their own, while killers do have those options through bots/custom matches.
Respectfully, I feel that Being pushed into a role or pushed to purchase a killer you’re not interested in just to compensate for a lack of support in the role you do play is slighty unreasonable and not sustainable.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917107#Comment_3917107
🤣🤣🤣 facts!
I’d love to see a few different breeds. German Shepard? Greyhound? Like the statues she had on her gates by her house in the menus screen.
An Egyptian Style type of dog she trained? Idk 🤷🏼♂️
Lots of options!
I know they already did a whole red riding hood and big bad wolf thing but this would be such a cool duo for it!
Hopefully more HM cosmetics will come soon!
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The amount of $$ they could be making by just giving the dog different breed skins. Imagine a Chihuahua? 😭 i would try to pet the little ankle biter EVERY game
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I think it would end up becoming another way people invalidate the opinions of others. There shouldn't be a "you have to be this tall to ride" for just sharing your opinions, or how people value those opinoins. Someone can have an opinon about a movie without having been to film school. Creating some kind of social class system where you have to meet certain standards in order to be heard has historically been proven many times not to be very beneficial, and very damaging. High skill doesn't always mean high insight.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916638#Comment_3916638
reminds me of all the times I’ve accidentally stepped over the window as killer once I’ve hit a survivor trying to vault when I attempt to pick them up 🤦♀️
when this happens as survivor I always crawl away from the window when they come back to me lol like I’ve been there bud don’t worry we will pretend it didn’t happen 🫣
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@PetTheDoggo said:
I would also like to know % of how many SWF there are….
It would be nice to have an update of this for sure. The last time we got one was in 2019 I believe.
Average party size.png -
@Khastrx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3915716#Comment_3915716
Not to question parenting, but why would you allow a child to watch you play a mature rated game anyway? Bringing up the option screen while the mori plays, thus blocking the majority of the animation is sufficient. (An option to skip would be nice though…)
That’s a totally fair question. TBH DBD isn’t really that scary to watch for the most part. There’s no blood effects, no jump scares, no gore (only in a mori). For the most part it’s just running around. It’s also a passive watch, as usually they’re watching something or drawing or doing a puzzle, and not actively staring at the screen the whole time. I’m on PC as well so they don’t hear anything either.
But yeah for the most part there’s nothing really scary to watch aside from the mori, so if they happen to be around I just tab out to be safe.
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If my kid is watching, who’s 6, and I’m about to get Mori’d and I don’t want them to watch cause it’s a gruesome one (like Kanekis) I just hit escape to bring up the menu that gives you the option to leave the match, but I don’t actually leave. It blocks out the animation and quiets it. Maybe that can be an option?
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You can’t really outrun a ghoul. As frustrating as it can be, honestly I’ve found some small success in stealth. Perks that make you silent like calm spirit/iron will, possibly distortion even though I’ve had very mixed results on getting enough tokens back for it to be viable, and maybe off the record to help with tunneling. It’s not a perfect solution but it may be worth a try.
If forced into a 1v1 I wouldn’t ever try to stun with a pallet as in my experience I make more distance if I pre-drop rather than stun. Try to hug those walls as tight as possible and go for more bulky stuff to run around rather than straight walls like shack.
Good luck out there!
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I feel the same way. I know some may feel that stats are too divisive but in my opinion there needs to be a base-line somewhere that isn’t just based on how it feels. Nuance is important, and even in modern day law it’s not exactly black and white, as there are varying degrees of certain things or specific requirements that have to be met in order for it to be “x” or “y”. If you can’t rely on any kind of statistical data or evidence that isn’t influenced by bias, then I don’t see any possible way of balance. The statistics matter.
I think it would be great for the end game screen to show stats. How much time each survivor spent on a gen, how many unhooks, heals, totems, chase time etc. how many times the killer injured, how many times they kicked gens, how long each chase time was etc. Providing these kind of stats helps provide a clearer picture of what happened in the match.
So, yes. 100% I agree.
(Edit: spelling) -
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914950#Comment_3914950
Definitely agreed that survivors need more practice tools like killers eventually got, though I get why they haven't been able to do so yet. That said, I think there might be a bit of misunderstanding concerning my conceptualization of difficulty: As survivor much of the difficulty comes from your reliance on teammates outside your control, while as killer difficulty comes more from the amount of macro gaming and mechanical skill. The thing is that means that the difficulty on one side is not always entirely one's own fault (win or lose,) while the other side has a lot of variability depending on how their killer/build handles those two aspects (and how they handle said killer.) It would be just as accurate to say killer is harder than survivor as it would be to say that it is easier. The comparison is hard to make when there is such a wide range of advantages either side could have, let alone the asymmetric structure. This is before getting into the other less quantifiable random chance factors like opponent's skill/loadouts/etc.
I just don't like the idea of either role calling the other "easier." They both have very different considerations and thresholds to account for, in a game that is structured mainly by its chaotic nature.
If there were better ways to learn, to practice, and to build consistency, I think we’d see a lot less burnout and far more growth.sadly I doubt it would go that well. There are already plenty of killers who would rather ask for nerfs than use the practice tool they have, and I don't predict the survivor role being any different. Those who honestly do want to get better would be able to do so, but the average player values dopamine hits more than delayed gratification, and practice tools do nothing if not utilized. Its a shame but even now losing matches can (and should) be used for practicing but rarely are, every time someone dips early I'll the the opportunity to practice chase extensions or killer power interactions, anything to try to make the most of the situation. Unfortunately most don't have the same mindset and would rather give up and hope they don't encounter the same situation next game, then continue burning out as they get less and less feel good chemicals. Doomposting aside, I do still hope we get at the very least customs with killer bots eventually.
I appreciate this response, and I think we’re actually in agreement on quite a few things—especially around the need for better survivor practice tools. You’re right that not everyone would use them, and that some players will always lean into immediate gratification over growth. But I’d still argue that having those tools available would be a step forward, even if they’re underutilized. Right now, there’s virtually no structured way to improve as survivor beyond just queuing and hoping for the right scenarios to practice in. That doesn’t encourage growth, only filters out anyone who can’t already handle the steep learning curve or doesn’t have the time to push through it. Right now, the system only works those who are either already skilled or willing to suffer through trial-and-error matches slowly just to get competent.
I also think your breakdown of difficulty is fair. The two roles have fundamentally different sources of difficulty, survivor is more about interdependence and coordination, while killer has a higher ceiling for mechanical and macro skill. I guess I should have rephrased, because I do get what you mean. It’s not necessarily that survivor is “harder” than killer, because both roles demand different things and skill sets, but the survivor role is intentionally restricted not to win as often as killer, so it makes sense that it harder to be successful in that role in order to ensure that kill rate/escape rate is not equal. As a role survivor is just less stable. You can do everything right and still lose because the role relies on everyone performing well at once, and the game doesn’t offer many ways to recover when that doesn’t happen.
So I fully agree: better tools wouldn’t magically fix everything. They wouldn’t change the fact that some players don’t want to improve, and they wouldn’t eliminate burnout entirely. But this can be extended to anything in the game. I’m sure there are some players who, even with a 99% kill rate, still wouldn’t be satisfied. Or players that got 5 hook states, who wouldn’t think it’s enough. The potential misuse of a resource doesn’t mean it isn’t worth offering—especially in a role where burnout and morale are already so fragile.
In the end, both roles have valid struggles. I am not saying killer games can’t be hard. I’ve had my butt whooped plenty of times but honestly I can say that I deserved the butt whoop every time, as my opponents were simply just better than I was. But I think acknowledging that survivor lacks the same support systems and agency is important if we’re going to have honest conversations about improving the experience on both sides, and why there was a burnout for killer before the big game shift and why there is now a burnout for survivor after it.
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@Kleine_Klompje said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914687#Comment_3914687
It's a issue I think that can't ever be solved. As long as people have that competitive mindset, they want it to balance to their side. It's an asymmetrical game after all. Once the pendulum swings, the other will have to endure the impact.
I get what you’re saying, and you’re right that asymmetrical games are always going to feel like a balancing act—when one side gains ground, the other side often feels the hit. But I don’t think it has to be a zero-sum situation. There’s a difference between asking for power and asking for stability. So yeah, I agree, there will always be noise when balance shifts, but that doesn’t mean that no improvements can ever be made that will be healthy for either role or the game overall.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914687#Comment_3914687
I don't know that I'd say survivor is designed to be harder, just that its designed to share agency. The reason thats an important distinction is because a lot of the player base seems to be unwilling to do so. The more people get left hanging by their teammates (either through how they play, sandbagging, or abandonment) the more likely they are to slink into the same apathetic stance toward their future teammates. The only way I consider killer easier is that your agency is only impaired by how much time you have, rather than being dependent on up to 3 other people in tandem. When all the survivors are in sync (this does not require comms or even SWF, just efficiency and prioritization) I do not think most of the killer roster is designed to have an easier time (arguments could be made for S tiers, of course.)
The big issue is that a lot of Solo Q's woes come from other Solo Q players, in one way or another. The more people accept shared agency and stop letting each other down, the healthier the role is. The unfortunate part is that the pattern you mentioned regarding many survivors feeling the pinch that many killers used to feel is real, but that its self (by role, not necessarily by individual) inflicted. Every time we give up/throw/sandbag/basically any time not pull one's own weight in agency, we are being the thing we complain about and further cementing the situation we lament.
Its interesting how people react to the agency difference between the roles, as its a somewhat unique dilemma to asyms. Some other types of pvp games have concepts like hypercarries to manipulate the shared agency distribution, but for the most part team games generally tend to have equal parts individual and shared agency, but in this game one side has it while the other essentially does not. This leads to wildly different perceptions of concepts like difficulty and even the grievances.
TL:DR both sides tend to find it frustrating when they lose to things beyond their control, but the survivor role only gives you control over 25% of your role, leading to morale erosion from losses.
I really like the way you’re framing this through agency—it’s a smart lens, and I agree it’s central to the survivor experience. It’s a role built on shared responsibility. But where I differ is in placing the blame soley on the players. I think the game is structured to inherently punish survivors when that shared agency breaks down, and it does very little to prevent, compensate for, or recover from that breakdown. Add in the fact that survivors are intended to lose more than they win, and you’re already starting at a disadvantage.
The solo experience is fragile. The moment that coordination falters, punishment is swift. That’s not just a player issue; thats intentional design. This role is built on collective punishment. You can outplay the killer, make the right calls, be the strongest player in the match, and still lose. Not because you played poorly—but because you’re restricted by other players. And the game doesn’t give you or those players the tools to stabilize.
Individual skill does matter but only up to a point. You don’t get to choose which killer you face, how experienced your teammates are, or how many times anyone’s played against that killer before. It’s not always a skill issue. I think it’s often a skill gap. We don’t call it “throwing” when a killer struggles to learn a new killer in real matches—we call it a learning curve. I feel the same should apply to survivors when struggling to face certain killers as well (especially with how often reworks or buffs to them are consistently happening) But the game offers survivors no structured way to close that gap.
Killers can practice in customs with bots, any perks (even ones they don’t own) on any map, with or against any builds. Survivors don’t have that equivalence. Just trial by fire, over and over, with variable teammates, on maps they can’t choose, against killers they can’t choose. It’s like trying to study for an exam—while taking it, and it’s a slightly different test version every time. There’s no consistency to learn from.It’s intentionally difficult. And that’s fine. It’s a horror game. Survival should be earned. Yes, bad survivor behavior makes things worse. It should not be rewarded. But l also feel that behavior not only comes from selfish individuals but also comes from the fragility of the role itself. It’s not just a matter of “people should play better”it’s also “why is the role so vulnerable to one person not playing well?” If there were better ways to learn, to practice, and to build consistency, I think we’d see a lot less burnout and far more growth.
Yes, harsher penalties for DCs or first-hook suicides might clean up some of the surface-level behavior, which is great! But I don’t think that’s going to fix morale or the overall dissatisfaction with the role itself. And I think using the worst behavior in the role as justification for ignoring survivor frustrations is misguided. It’s the same logic that got Skull Merchant gutted because of how some killers misused her. That wasn’t fair to the role or those players then and I feel it isn’t fair now.
So, I think in a nutshell I agree with most of what you’ve said. But I think where we may disagree is just on the expectations of one role over the other, along with how or what those expectations are perceived depending on the role. I want survivors to just.. be better, too. But I don’t think they have the tools to do so in a way that would actually make a difference. If I had the option, I would absolutely be playing on custom bot lobbies, practicing against every killer in the game, every add-on, every perk, on every map so that I could make up for my short-comings, to learn, and be a better player to face and to team up with.
In any case, it’s always a pleasure speaking with you friend! I smile everytime I see your notifications as the conversations are always pleasant regardless on where we stand.
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I think people consistently underestimate how difficult and chaotic SoloQ actually is—until they get thrown back into it and are forced to remember. While the game has gone through massive shifts over the years, the struggles of survivor players, especially in SoloQ, which are the majority, are often written off or minimized.
Many remember when killer was in a rough spot before the big change, so much so that many stopped playing the role entirely. Survivor queues were painfully long because there just weren’t enough people playing killers. That was seen as a serious balance issue— which it was— and adjustments were made to shift power back toward killers. And it worked! Killer play became more rewarding, and player numbers recovered.
But now, many survivors are feeling what killers once did: powerless, frustrated, and burned out. But rather than seeing this as another balance red flag, it’s often chalked up to survivor entitlement or poor attitude.
Statistically, survivor is a harder role (fitting for a horror game, as escape should be tricky) This is true across MMR brackets, killer tiers, and even regions. Whether the data comes from BHVR, Nightlight, personal match histories, or just consistent player experience, it paints the same picture. Survivor is intentionally designed to be harder. And I think that fact is too often forgotten, ignored, or deliberately dismissed/belittled. Survivors are quitting for the same reasons killers were quitting before— just unhappiness and dissatisfaction with the role. I think many survivors haven’t accepted this yet and still expect more of a 50/50 win and loss rate. I think the QOL changes will help with a lot of the frustration, and the harsher penalties on giving up will certainly help as well.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913973#Comment_3913973
Blood points are so easy to get now, there should be no concern about running out of items. I play both killer and survivor and spend lots of blood points on both sides. All my survivors have way more items than I will ever need. The excuse that others are making of “I don’t want to risk losing my items” is not a valid one.
Ah yes, I forgot the ancient DBD law: if BP is easy to get, everyone must feel exactly the same way about using their items lol
No but in all seriousness, I mean, if someone’s personal experience is that they rarely survive, it’s not really an “excuse,” it’s just a reflection of their reality, it’s just a fact. Whether or not bloodpoints are easy to get doesn’t change that basic calculation of effort vs. likely return.
But since it really bothers you, I will start bringing one just to have 👍 I didn’t know this was considered BM or selfish not to bring one. My bad.
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Through experience I know the chance of me getting to keep that item are extremely low. I kind of have been conditioned to go into every match with the mindset of already having lost/expecting to lose— but let’s see how close I can get to the end. But maybe I should start bringing more items. Feed the entity some more
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it was massive 😭 it scared me
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omg i tried to attach a meme but it was waaay too big so ignore this lol
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Haha, both clips sound like my pappy with Alzheimer’s. 😭
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912763#Comment_3912763
Oh gotcha, I read it again and yeah it doesn't have the same tone the second read. My bad.
No worries, tone can be difficult to capture in text, I should have phrased it better. Maybe I’ll just make an edit to clarify it’s a joke lol
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3912750#Comment_3912750
You know you can hit survivors, right? An unlimited number of times, in fact.
Imagine complaining that you have to patrol a single house....
Oh, I know. My comment is more satirical. That’s why at the end I said “idk not sure how to defend that” and the only thing I could think of was someone trying to justify it, saying that that kind of placement would be fine because you can only kick the gen a certain number of times.
Sorry my joking tone seems difficult to place. I’m in no way defending it. It was meant to be more sarcastic/satirical. As a SoloQ main, I recognize that this 3gen is an absolute death sentence.
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Something something… can only kick 8 times…?
Idk this seems like a mistake. Not sure how to defend that lol
edit: for Clarity this is a satirical joke lol I am not trying to defend this in anyway nor do I think it’s possible to do so -
I very much agree. There is so much more to the game than what the tutorial offers. For awhile I think it was fair for people to just play and learn as they go, but the game is almost 10 years old at this point, there are 39 different killers, all with different counter play. Not including add-ons. There’s like 200 survivor perks. Over 100 killer perks. There’s just so much in the game now that it’s somewhat unrealistic to expect a new player to be able to not only absorb all the information required to just be competent in the game, let alone the hours and hours of actual gameplay it takes to be able to utilize that information properly. Having custom matches helps, where you can practice against bots as killer and learn different maps or perks for killer or survivor, though unfortunately there is no equivalent for the survivor side even though there really should be.
But both roles have such crazy expectations in order to perform well that the tutorial makes the game seem much more linear than it is. I think the game would benefit from more learning tools being available to all players 100%
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Would love to see MatPat or Markiplier in the game. Honestly it would probably bring in even more people to DBdD because both of those people (though admittedly more Markiplier) have sortve rabid fan bases of dedication. Plus the voice lines would be really fun 🤩
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909253#Comment_3909253
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QAW19WDANQQL/screenshot-20250409-103440-chrome.jpg
This implies the surrender option is the anti slugging, next phase there will be continued improvements but the fact they allow survivors to give up when slugged highly suggests they have no intention of stopping it happen so the continued improvement may be to tweak the surrender option in some way. Impossible to say for sure at this stage but it makes no sense to allow survivors to surrender under these conditions if they intend to remove slugging entirely.
I wasn't under the impression they were trying to stop slugging all together, and if that was the case I would be against it. Slugging is a counter to flashlights and bangs or sabos, and it's important for it to remain in the game as a defensive. Offensively, I have different opinions on. Them furthering adjustments to anti-slugging in phase 2, I'm not sure what that means. I could see it being to further tweak on the surrender option. I could also see any potential counters being dependent upon how frequently surrenders from 4 man slugging happend from the first phase to the second as well. Again, I have no idea.
I also don't believe they intend to remove tunneling entirely either, only that they have stated that the phases will be "anti-tunneling" which means that the goal of whatever changes they implement are to reduce tunneling. And again, I don't feel as though the planning of reducting tunneling shows that tunneling is necessary for success, as it does the opposite. Same for slugging, I feel. Designing perks specifically to counter it, and then the addition of a surrender option when being slugged also shows that it is enough of a problem to warrant changes. I would much rather these kind of tactics be made less desireable by changing the amount of pressure they provide—and if kill rates suffer because of it, to give base-kit buffs or even a base-kit gen regression to ensure those killrates stay high.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909184#Comment_3909184
same could be said for slugging, what was the anti slugging solution? So far the solution is to allow survivors to surrender when slugged, not prevent slugging from actually happening. Similar approach to tunneling, they will introduce certain counters, maybe make it a bit harder to tunnel but they won't stop it happening or remove how effective it is.
I believe both the anti-slugging and anti-tunnel solutions aren't being implemented until phase 2 of the QOL update. I think this means that surrendering when slugged is not planned on being the only solution to it, as they specifically planned for those changes to happen at a later date. I have no idea what solutions or counters they will implement for the anti-tunnel or anti-slugging, so I don't feel comfortable in assuming what it will be. The concept of Chucky ever being in the game, along with the concept of My Little Oni or 2v8 felt impossible at points in time. So, I truly don't know what the anti-measures will look like.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908367#Comment_3908367
Its not fun, we do it cus we have to if we want to win
I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. If tunneling were necessary I don't believe BHVR would be actively working to reduce it. They've implemented anti-tunnel perks, added base-kit changes, and have more on the way. If survviors were winning too much, It wouldn't make sense to actively make tunneling harder.
The logic doesn't make sense. Why would they make it more difficult for killres to win by adding more anti-tunnel changes unless they believed killers can still succeed without relying on tunneling? I feel it's contradictory to say that killers have to tunnel while at the same time, the devs are trying to move away from tunneling, and still aim to maintain a 60% killrate. I haven't seen any sort've data that proves that tunneling is required to maintain that killrate.
Now, if that turns out to be the case, and nerfing/discourage of tunneling does result in a large drop of killer winrates, then the solution should be base-kit changes and buffs to killers rather then keeping them in a state in which they are forced to rely on a singular tactic to win. But until there's some kind of proof of this, it doesn't make sense to ignore the proof we do have that contradicts it.
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@BasementDweller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442316/ghoul-counterplay-just-get-good
I don't understand all the complaining, this is balanced gameplay right here.
I think the devs should ignore all the complaints from survivor players and buff him. They should let him down with his power, and give him a insta down add-onKiller is obviously a low tier killer.
All jokes aside I think it would really be fun if the devs made a limited event, something short like My Little Oni was, where the killers are extremely overbuffed in every single way. Like ridiculous walking speed, no cool downs, just the most busted base kit stuff imaginable. No perks on either side just massive killer buffs. Intetntionally unbalanced. And then do the same for survivor after that, ridiculous buffs. And then see how people feel about the normal mode. How we could all appreciate how things are a little bit more, because they could be so much worse. And it'd be a great way to practice some "extremeist" changes to see if anyone really tried to defend any of it, or accuse the struggle against it as being low skill. I think it would be eye opening and really entertaining.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908367#Comment_3908367
I don't think it's fun at all. It makes winning easier, but it also makes winning boring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908363#Comment_3908363
Yeah, pretty much all of this. People throw out the term "tunneling" so often it almost has no meaning anymore.
Full transparency— I don’t actually think tunneling is ever fun, regardless of its success in winning. I’m a SoloQ main so I will never tunnel in my killer games because I know what it does and how it feels. But after speaking with some people who do find it fun, it’s often because of the pressure it provides. Not many enjoy doing it for the sake of doing it, though there are outliers i’m sure. I feel most people acknowledge tunneling is very unfun, but some believe it’s a necessary evil because of the pressure it provides. I was just trying to give a somewhat logical reasoning to the OPs question, not necessarily defend it. The game would be much healthier without it for both killers and survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908040#Comment_3908040
Based on your last sentence alone your not answering in good faith. That's the treatment I got from brewingtea up there. Wild huh?
Yeah, I don’t quite understand that stance. Maybe there’s a language barrier and they think overturned is synonymous with broken? I’m sorry you were accosted like that lol
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I’ve had a few encounters like this myself. Unfortunately I don’t have any recorded. But it is very entertaining to watch Everyone else’s! Entertaining in a … kind of depressing kind of way lol
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Anti-tunnel changes are coming soon, so just hold out a little while longer. Tunneling is fun from the killer perspective because it's a quick way to win, and many have fun mostly when they win.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908112#Comment_3908112
I would start balancing the game around "no perks", and in the process remove virtually all of them. What I hate the most about this game is perks used as band-aids or mandatory perks.
100%
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I think everyone naturally has some bias toward what they enjoy playing, but what matters is recognizing that bias and not letting it completely cloud your judgment. Most people in the community are passionate and genuinely want the game to improve, but there are still those that seems more interested in seeing the other role suffer rather than pushing for a healthier game overall. Thankfully they are in the minority, and are typically easy to spot if operating in bad faith as they tend to straight up insult or demean someone else.
I don’t think this is unique to DBD—it’s more of a people problem. But i think BHVR could ease some of the tension by being more transparent. Sharing stats like defined win conditions, kill rates by MMR bracket, solo vs SWF performance, DC percentages, and even after match stats (how long you spent on gens, in chase, etc) would clear up so many arguments/misinformation. People still fight over whether the game is casual or competitive, and that’s a question BHVR could easily clarify imo.
From what information we do have, the stats show the game is relatively balanced from the devs perspective, which means two things, but both those things are very controversial/hot topics and I think are the source of alot of disagreements. More depth to that info would do the whole community good, I feel.
So yeah, I do think a lot of players want what’s best for their "side", but I also think most people care about the overall health of the game too. BHVR being clearer and giving us tools to understand the game better would go a long way toward getting everyone on the same page, and a little more understanding for the other role as well as their own.
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I don't think he's "Broken" PTB Twins I feel was Broken. The Ghoul is definitely in need of some tweaks. He is overperforming a bit, I think the auto-aim has alot to do with it. But I think he has the potential to be a killer that both feels powerful to play and is fun to face. I don't want him gutted. But yeah, some of those hits should definitely be looked at along with maybe how quickly he can m1 right after using your body to catch up to you. Overtuned, sure. Broken? no.
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@Reinami said:
Would you rather go against nurses doing the same?
I'm sorry, but this is pretty classic whataboutism. It doesn't address the point at all. Comparing one frustrating experience to another doesn't solve either, and also invalidates someone's frustrations. If someone told me they broke their arm, I wouldn't tell them— at least they didn't break two arms—to try and make them feel grateful(?) that they broke one arm.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903442#Comment_3903442
I genuinely do feel this way, that's the thing. Someone here with a Killer PFP post a well thought out take, and then here comes the salty downvote brigade to crap on that. The bias for Killer Mains is inherent and real. The forums should never ever have added that feature back, it's starting to look liek the cesspools of Reddit in here and really ruins the discourse for no good reason. People here have admitted they ONLY use the downvote button to meme and ######### on others, that's it, it's only used to sow chaos and not to actually foster discussion. So why have it at all? It's a bad change. It needs to go.
All very valid, but it really ruins my night as a SoloQ player when a perfectly winnable round is destroyed by someone angry enough to DC, it's so bad I haven't played in over a month. That bad.
I am tired of people rage-queuing, at some point it stops feeling symptomatic to me and starts to feel actively spiteful. This is why I rarely play SoloQ as Survivor anymore. As Killer though… you can't pick your teammates and have no power over whether people ragequit, which actively ruins things for me like adepts, challenges, etc. and makes my game less fun. I feel OBLIGATED to let people go when there's bots, I feel OBLIGATED to play nicer instead of to my best ability when there's bots. I can be playing the most memey Trapper or Pig or chill Ghostface or Myers possible, and people will STILL DC, why?
Because according to people here those Killers are boring, or not fun, or have cheesy powers, or they fear I'll slug/tunnel with them. I don't. It even happens with my main Dredge, if I go in and do well as Dredge here comes the DCs, Entity forbid we end up somewhere with lots of lockers like Midwich - I have had people DC JUST because I'm Dredge on Midwich. It's really hard to not feel like it's personal when people do that.If they truly hate the game so much, maybe they should take a break instead? I promise nobody will begrudge them for it.
Hey, I totally get where you're coming from. The frustration is real, and I definitely don’t want to invalidate that. But I think this idea that people downvote solely because someone has a killer pfp feels a little like confirmation bias. I’ve seen plenty of killer pfp with posts that are upvoted heavily, and plenty with survivor pfps that get downvoted. It really does depend on what’s being said, not just who’s saying it or what their profile looks like. And there’s no way to know how many killers vs. survivors are actually active on the forums, so it’s tough to assume a majority bias either way. But of course, some people are trolls. Sometimes youre tunneled out because of what survivor skin you have on. That's just how it is sometimes lol.
As for the rest of your comment, I’m with you 100% on being sick of ragequits. I main SoloQ too, and it is exhausting. When a game that had potential gets tanked by someone DCing at 5 gens, it just drains you. That kind of thing isn’t just frustrating—it’s demoralizing..
When killers started quitting in mass a while back, that was treated like a serious issue. Queue times got out of hand. Survivor players were sitting for 10+ minutes waiting for a match, and killer lobbies were often nearly instant. Nobody really enjoyed playing the killer role and thankafully the devs stepped in to address that with changes that made killer more rewarding and powerful overall. The game took a massive shift. It was the right call, as killers don’t get teammates and can’t play with friends so the shift toward giving killers more power and a higher winrate makes sense to make the role have incentive to play.
But when survivors started quitting or disconnecting in larger numbers, something we’re seeing a lot more lately, it wasn’t met with the same empathy. It’s labeled “entitlement” and simply “ragequitting,” when maybe it should be seen as another red flag, just like it was with killers. I think that difference in perception hurts the community more than we realize. Both roles are important, and both need to feel like the game is worth sticking around for.
I like that killer is in the power role now. I actually think that’s how the game plays best. But even as someone who supports that shift, I still think the current survivor experience isn’t sustainable. People disconnect when it feels like their time isn’t being respected. That doesn’t (always) mean they’re being immature. Just like how when killers stopped playing for awhile, that wasn't immature either. Why put their time and effort into a game that felt like it didn't respect their own? I'm glad that killers took a stand and can now enjoy their role again. The game needed it.
So yeah, I want killer to be fun and rewarding—but I also want survivor to be the same. We made noise when killer numbers dropped, and changes happened. Survivors are doing the same now, and I think labeling it all as just childish entitlement does much more harm than good, and that it needs to be listened to. And based on the recent QOL survivor updates they previewed, it seems like the devs are, which I think is good too. DCing will be more heavily punished, as will going on 1st hook. Only time will tell if the other QOL changes added in the future will make it worth sticking around or not. Fingers crossed!
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She isn’t considered OP for nothing! Glad you’re enjoying her 🍻 See you in the fog !
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Putting aside the imbalance of the tools and effort required to counter it vs. the effort to do it — It's less illegal, more bad sportsmanship. It's not illegal in a sports game to insult the other team and call them names or say something disgusting about their mother. One could argue it's a strategy, it's "getting in their heads". Does that make it any less shameful to resort to that kind of strategy? I don't think so. I believe the game would be better without it 100%. Hooks need to be made more impactful.
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The game has changed alot. Things that used to feel not as common, now are. Things like PING hits, more anti-loop killers, nerfs to distortion so people are found quicker, and now with spawning all in the same place it's hard to get pressure early with gens. So don't worry, what you're experiencing is normal. The game is definitely not the same as it used to be. All killrates are over 50%. As a survivor, you're intended and expected to lose more then you win. Even the best players in top MMR, top 5% of players in the World, including that crazy Swat team SWF win less than 50% of the time. Don't beat yourself up.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904091#Comment_3904091
- Try to predict him. Is he going to cut you off with his leap or is he trying to catch up behind you?
2. He's an M1 killer. He cannot down you with his power. He can injure you with it, but he's even less efficient at it than Legion. Yes, Legion, while simultaneously sharing their inherent weakness against being ran around loops (no way to hit through or over them.)
3. His power is only nichely usable when looping, so position yourself safely (be near buildings or tiles that reliably waste time for the Killer.)
4. If for whatever reason you cannot reliably position yourself properly, Kaneki doesn't typically use Exhaustion perks which means perks such as Lithe and Sprint Burst will help you connect safe tiles (or reach them in the first place) efficiently.
Does this mean that essentially your counter play is reliant upon map RNG or specific perks? Like if the map has more dead space than jungle gyms, or if the jungle gyms are very spread out and far from one another then admittedly there is no counter play? Do you recommend bringing a map to ensure there’s something to work with?
I’m still learning how to face him. I think it’s too soon to have an opinion yet. I’ve had about 6 games so far, and around 25 games likely I will have solidified my opinion. Right now it’s at 1 4man escape and 5 4ks.
I am trying to put on builds specifically to counter him, I have on Sprint Burst, MFT, Windows to make sure I don’t accident go to dead jungle gyms, and Resilience. Do you recommend a different build? Looking to learn.
Thanks 🙏