fussy
fussy
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667147#Comment_3667147
The issue with that is, that there is no benefit greater then the close to certaint victory which provides tunneling.
I came up with an idea recently that gens have early game penalty on repairing, but this penalty is lost as soon as the first survivor reaches stage 2. And once one survivor is killed, survivors can repair gens even faster then usually. A ballance adjustment without any bandaids, and the perfect basekit reward for spreading hooks.
Yeah, it's true, tunneling is strong, same should be reward for spreading hook, if we want something to be changed.
I read your post before, i have some problems with your suggestion tbh. Overall, i don't think reward for spreading hooks should be related with gen speed. Doing gens is boring and as a person who did 6k+ gens i just can't accept gens last any longer. I think, majority of community agree with this. But even besides it, i have some problems with your suggestion.
1) This obligates killer to find all the survivors in order, and ignore all other survivors while he searches for "missing link", otherwise he will be punished. It's core issue, because it's nearly impossible. Sometimes i take 3 aura perks and just can't find one survivor whole game. For this suggestion we need completely delete stealth from the game and give to killer few aura perks basekit. I don't think anyone will be happy with it and it's nearly impossible with lockers in the game.
2) Even with no stealth in a game and some aura perks basekit 20% penalty is just compensation for killer's time to find all survivors one by one, there is no reward at all. One thing just neutralizes other.
3) Killer will punished with extra 5% to gens speed even after 4 unic hooks? What is the point of spreading them then?
4) I think that your suggestion will somehow okish on lowest MMR, where game is killer sided, but high MMR killers will be literally unplayable. There is no reward for spreading hooks as such, but a lot of punishment. In high MMR killer (it's better to say "against good survivors", since mmr is a pretty bad) should tunnel just to have a chance to win, and it's not even a guarented win and pretty risky. With your suggestion there will be literally no chance to win a game against strong survivors.
Look, there is a match i had with friends few hours ago. Random was tunneled out on 3 gens and we did 3 mans out without any other hooks at all.
I already discussed a lot reward for spreading hooks in my most, there are some of my suggestions.
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635598#Comment_3635598
I have some i'm not completely sure in.
Like few examples, don't take the numbers too literally, they, of course, in a theoretical situation, need to be tested. And each of ideas has a bunch of "what if", yes, I understand that, I just don't want to go too deep.
+3% to speed outside of chase and +4% to all actions for every hook if you are keeping your hooks unic. Drop to 0 if you hooked someone two times in a row. Possibly could start working from second hook. It also will help weak killers to control maps while barely will do something for strongest.
Old Grim basekit: if you hook 4 different survivors without someone being hooked twice in a row (and no one is dead), all gens will blocked for a 45 seconds. Work twice with same rules. Probably without Obsession's aura.
Light Pain Res basekit: 10% from most hot gen if you are keeping your hooks unic. Start working from 2nd hook and completely disable after survivor hooked twice or dead.
I had also idea of Gift of Pain basekit, but it will be boring to see red progress all the time and other questionable "what if" are also here.
In any case, it's game slowdown and not speed of chase increase, because i don't think this aspect of the game should be touched with any ideas of alternative playstyle.
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I just wish they make some basekit rewards for spreading hooks, so killers actually be more interested in this than in tunneling. Also anti-tunnel should not work in offensive way. My biggest problem with old DS is that i was punished if i was tunneling and if i wasn't at all.
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Main building should not have 3 god pallets, size should be reduced. Sometimes there's too much space without pallets too, but that should go away with a smaller map size, I think.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662610#Comment_3662610
Woooow great suggestion. Interpol is so awesome 🤩
Agree <3
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Now it's survivor sided, until you are Blight or Nurse.
- 3 (three) (THREE) (I MEAN T H R E E) i-will-jump-into-these-windows-till-they-will-blocked braindead houses
- Main is infinite against m1 and 4,4 killers
- Gens are impossible to control with their spawn mostly in houses
- There are some completely useless pallets, not even mindgamable, just useless.
- Too much deadzones. I mean, no, pallets should not be every 3 meters, as many survivors here imagine, and deadzones are a normal part of map design, but there are too many of them sometimes.
- With adding multiple loops to the map, I would consider making some loops more mindgameable. Cars are god pallets, spawn with garden two lines bushes are two god pallets next to each other as well.
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There is super stupid window in a main building sometimes, which definately should be nerfed. Only counterplay to it is vault 3 times. But sometimes it spawns before t-walls and well, it's basicly infinite. Besides that, probably one of the most balanced maps imo.
Edit: completely forget, that on this map jungle gym could be paired with shack window in another infinite. It also should be gone.
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And if 3 gens pops and killer only has 1-2 hooks, all exhaustion / gen related / second chance perks will disable as well, yeah? If you love idea to punish for completing your objective, it should works both ways.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666076#Comment_3666076
This is what I would say as well.
This is why people have such drastically different opinions of the state of the game or what’s op/up because it’s all based on that persons view of what level the game should be balanced around.
And that's why i believe game in the best spot ever. It was survivor sided even on average level like 2 years ago and killer gameplay was nothing but pure misery. Make it balanced around high level and average level surviving will become pure misery.
First time in my dbd history i'm enjoying both sides equally. First time i feel like skill equally matter on both sides and it's amazing.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665571#Comment_3665571
It would be cool if Nemesis got some buffs as a secondary reward for increasing his Mutation level, like some extra stun resistance and vault speed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665645#Comment_3665645
All these thoughts would be good additions too. Zombies detect infected survivors better, chase them faster, something.
Yeah, agree. Maybe even make leveling up Mutation slightly more difficult, but make him feels really scary and unstoppable in tier 3.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666290#Comment_3666290
No, I’m just saying placing a bird strategically at the loop would stop/deter someone from using a flashlight. I don’t hang out at the loop when the bird is up. Respect the bird.
And why it's waste of a perk slot if she is still using m1? Flashlights still a thing outside of loops too.
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There is killer repeat prevention system: make all killers viable, strong and interesting to play as. Billy was one of the rarest killers in matches, now he is pretty popular.
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@HeroLives said:
Why bird lady bring franklins when bird lady can counter loop with bird? Seems like waste of bird lady perk slot.
Do you really believe that even good Artist only use m2?
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Killer sided on low level, balanced on average level and survivor sided on high level.
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Maybe not worst idea in a world where Scourge Hooks are not extremely RNG dependent and Distortion isn't endless so killers actually can find other survivors one by one.
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My heart aches every time Nemesis gets a stun from pity pallet, even though he can literally walk right through walls without noticing them. This guy should have double Enduring basekit just to be lore accurate 😎
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Bruh, it's just like killer works, chill. Probably that's why nobody talking about it and called it "tech".
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It's so easy to get rid of resources in first 3-4 minutes as a killer, i rarely lose here. Also there should be more lockers, probably one of the worst map for the killers who rely on it.
Upd: it also has stupid spawn, where shack window spawns not far from a lying tree window, and you can easily win 2 minutes just by pressing spacebar, even bamboozle can't do anything with it.
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Probably most survivor sided realm in the game. Stupidly strong main building, semi-infinit thanks to window on fence right next to it, in addition two strong building, million safe pallets outside of buildings, fences, shack, almost no deadzones and all these on one map? Bruhhhh, get me out of here. No wonder why it's most popular offering in my killer games.
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Main building should be nerfed, especially window on second floor, and center of the map should be slightly buffed, and it will be alright.
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I have P100 in almost every lobby, I don't see any point in avoiding them. If I were dodging, I would probably spend three times as much time searching for a match as I would on the match itself.
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Voted balanced, but sometimes there is too little pallets. Maybe it's fair with such size. Overall i don't mind this map too much on both sides.
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@theTARNavsky said:
It's mostly fine, just a tiny bit too big maybe? That's why I voted favoring survivors but it's not a strong feeling. I would probably shrink it by like 8m or 16m from the longer side, just a tiny bit.
Agree with this.
Cut it on 15-20 meters and it will be fine. Thankfully you didn't buff it with last change as i thought.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662671#Comment_3662671
I think the High-Speed Idler Screw could grant extra Overdrive for breaking pallets and breakable walls. Maybe 10%-15%
Ragged Engine could shorten the turn window by 0.25 seconds (maybe even more) and instead grant a 50% higher turn rate in Overdrive.
I would be fine with the Counterweight simply deactivating Overdrive but granting bonus BP. This could be a nice addon for everyone that wants to get used to his base kit without worrying about Overdrive. It certainly took me a bit to get used to that kind of speed. And I already had a bit of practice with Engravings.
The Discarded Airfilter could work similar to Surge where in a radius around you gens explode whenever you get a down with the chainsaw. Make it a 7% penalty and I'd probably use it.
I also would love an addon that'd allow you to continue the chainsaw sprint after hitting a survivor. It would be pretty niche but I would so love to try and combine it with Spiked Boots on Rotten Fields to get all survivors in 1 sprint. It could also grant the Undectable status after a hit (like old Leafy Mash) to be a bit more versatile.
Information after a down is always a double edged blade. On one hand it's pretty nice to have and can help you out against cheeky flashlight or pallet saves but on the other it encourages slugging (especially on an insta down killer). So I'm kind of on the fence about this.
Honestly they could get real creative with his addons and experiment with different up- and downsides. Some of these could even completely change his play style.
Feels like 10-15% isn't enough for purple one, Motor Oil could be simpler better in many situations. Btw, somehow no one use it on Billy, underrated addon imo.
Not sure if Billy should have 2 "nerf yourself" addons with this Counterweight change. I would love to see some small but helpful effect on it. Maybe +2-3% speed while holding m2 or something.
Nice idea on Discarded Airfilter, love it!
I also would love an addon that'd allow you to continue the chainsaw sprint after hitting a survivor.Fun idea, but seems too situational. Maybe Counterweight could have this effect and be semi-meme addon.
Information after a down is always a double edged blade. On one hand it's pretty nice to have and can help you out against cheeky flashlight or pallet saves but on the other it encourages slugging (especially on an insta down killer). So I'm kind of on the fence about this.Yeah, true, i think 32 or even 24 meters is too much after your words. 20 or maybe even 16 meters will get rid of slugging with this addon (simply not enough in most cases to find a new target instantly), but still can be useful i think.
Honestly they could get real creative with his addons and experiment with different up- and downsides. Some of these could even completely change his play style.Agree! One of suggestions i read is make Speed Limiter permanent overdrive with current downside. Current Billy definately has a big window for experiments with addons.
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@Xernoton said:
I agree. This version of Billy feels absolutely amazing. He's less addon reliant than before, got some (much needed) complexity in his kit with the Overdrive mechanic and he also has a bunch of decent addons. His counterplay also became a lot more demanding. He finally does have the power to curve you around loops, if you don't play right and there are even some loops, where you need to know how to play around him or you will definitely go down.
His base kit feels pretty good and the only thing I would like to see removed is the sound to tell you when the chainsaw is ready to be used again. I know that on my own and this sound drives me mad. Especially when you use the chainsaw pretty much the entire game and have to listen to it over and over again.
The Discarded Airfilter, High-Speed Idler Screw, Ragged Engine and Thermal Casing addons are all pretty useless though. As is the Counterweight. None of them have any useful effects either because they fix issues that don't exist or in the case of Counterweight because it's just a flat out nerf. It's not even good for learning Billy because the jump from 30% turn rate to 100% turn rate is way too big. It used to be easier to learn him thanks to the controller sensitivity settings because you could increase it step by step until you felt comfortable and got used to it. The addon does not have that effect. So there are 2 options. Either give him multiple such addons to allow players to ease into the curving or just rework it completely.
Overall this might be the best rework for a killer the devs have done so far. Really good job.
Glad to see that Billy main agrees <3
I thought that Counterweight is good for learning, but never tried it tbh. Will be glad to see its rework as well.
By the way, do you have any ideas on how rework these addons? I personally can't come up with something interesting and useful, except these:
I only come up with Driver's License copy addon on purple, like if survivors get chainsaw hit near the gen, it will lose 20%. Will be fun for sprint snipes, but don't know how useful it will be during usual game.
Also Idler Skrew could show auras of survivors in 32 (or 24) meters after survivor downed with chainsaw.
No idea for green one sadly.
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Currently this. They are ten years in my years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1PMuD4ewk&pp=ygUNaW50ZXJwb2wgdG9uaQ%3D%3D -
I literally can't care less about piping on both sides, and idk how it should make my match against full meta squad less stressful or survivor match more fun. "Kind words" from Entity? I know by myself if i did good or bad in match, pre-written letters will do absolutely nothing to my stress after it.
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I love how half of the forum is "ohh i can't predrop 20 super safe pallets, so it's 100% killer sided map". Literally shows how skilled these players are. Why learn looping, try to play mindgames, if you can just pick Gideon, drop super safe pallet and run to the next one and let map to win match for you.
To the post point, i did a post with current maps problems
@fussy said:
I just played as Legion on Temple and it was most dull and boring dbd match in my live.
I broke THREE pallets in the whole match (it was 8-10 minutes), only two of them in the chase. It was a simulator of shortening the distance with a survivor. Okay, good, you reduced size, but why the hell there is always one or two unsafe pallet in THIRD part of the map? I'm not against deadzones, but not when whole map is one big deadzone. What is it and how it should be fun experience for any side?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B98BMKL4BX5M/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6MN33AUKW081/20240119140131-1.jpg
Can you also explain how you BUFFED Ormond after this? How this is in one game with Gideon map?
How Haddonfield is even more braindead with these windows than before rework?
How Eyrie is still pallet city with highest winrate for survivors? Oh, you know what? If you gonna nuke it like Temple, better leave it as it is, at least there is some gameplay from both sides.
Why Rancid is also one big deadzone? There is a hole in the wall, stepping over which you can continue match on Eyrie?
How Borgo is still red, when it always was #1 complain about this map from community? Good changes in terms of balance, but why is part that was in almost every feedback ignored?
How Garden of Misery is still one of the worst map in the game after "rework"?
How Hawkins is not deleted from the game still? Or at least not reworked completely? Same with Lery's
Why does every rework necessarily add a million objects to the map, which you always stumble over as a survivor and as a killer? Just to everyone suffer?
There is should be some map design standart at least, if you guys not gonna play your own game to experience all these maps from both sides.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659943#Comment_3659943
By that logic Eruption/Overbrine should've never gotten nerfed because Trapper and Pig rely on slowdown more than Blight and Nurse.
It's absolutely not "by that logic". Difference is all m2 killers just don't get BL at all, unless they play like m1 killer.
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I mostly play m2 killers and BL almost doesn't exist in my games. It exists when I play pig, Freddy or trapper and I have 0 issues to help these killers.
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@OsuchinRiberu said:
@fussy Thank you!
I just wanted to make post about Slinger's rift gun and ask to centralise its aim, but this post is amazing. Hope they will pay attention to it.
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W thread
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I can't wait for Slipknot collection now, since i actually love this band.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655899#Comment_3655899
Mangle is the one i most like in this game. It makes healing perks viable (We'll Make It just eats away any Mangled effect; Botany still top over 30% over mangled) and can be a very smart slowdown to killers without envolving hitting gens.
Please, add your feedback to the feedback topic, we need the devs knowing that.
Agree. I already did one full topic on this change and I mentioned it in full PTB feedback too literally few minutes ago. Nothing depends on my opinion alone.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655829#Comment_3655829
Mangled nerf isn’t rlly that bad tho
the duration is still solid on some perks and addons
but I think some of them should have the duration pumped up a bit
Mangled nerf makes this effect completely meaningless. It doesn't exist anymore at this point. I tested it yesterday and i don't even know who will take Mangled addons and perks, because Unrelenting will have more value than this. The only players who will affected by Mangled are bush selfcare (now basement selfcare) Claudettes , who do it after every hit. Mangled is dead.
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Yeah, it's pity that all Mangled addons have a place in a trashcan now.
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At very least they should fix his bugs asap
@fussy said:
Wow. Just wow. We all know how long it takes BHVR to fix some bugs, but just taking a character away from the players for 1.5 months and not fixing anything with him surprises even me.
Knight was my #2-3 most played killer before he was disabled, but after he returned, I didn't play him as often, because absolutely all his bugs remained. I just gave up on him. Maybe ton of players' feedback (Otz video included) isn't enough to actually start fixing his bugs, but i will try to remind what's wrong with him.
1) Guards are still sometimes going around dropped pallet and not through.
2) Guards are still not reacting to loud noises in their radius.
3) Guards are still following the survivor's path, not actually survivor.
All this creates such stupid situations where your ability overplays itself or even hinders you that it makes no sense to touch this character at all.
And not bug, but:
4) Maps of the Realm basekit. He needs it badly. I don't think there is another killer that relies on one addon more than Knight.
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@ChaosWam said:
I mean... Medkits were already nerfed. CoH is no longer a real problem, and other fast healing requires dedicated builds.
I think it's worth a good test to see if it's a bad change or not, I'm okay with it being timed and the amount of time seems fair and I can understand their logic, but I want to see the application of it before having any strong opinions either way.
Yeah, medkits were absurdly strong and now balanced. CoH was arguably most broken perk in the game and still strong. How does it justify Mangled nerf?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653602#Comment_3653602
I don’t think it would be a huge deal as long as the speed is low enough that saves can still be countered. The current version is dumb because there isn’t enough counterplay and for a pallet save the survivor can cover 24m during the pickup animation which is too big of a radius to have reasonable counterplay. When the speed was 150 I didn’t feel that way.
It still was strong perk with 150%, killer just have some opportunity to counter it, i agree. But it doesn't mean that you should be able to deny hook literally after every down. It doesn't prolong the chase like other exhaustion, it literally denies whole chase on killer part, so by any means it shouldn't have less exhaustion timer.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I’d like if it was 150% speed but had a shorter exhaustion
Nah, it's also stupid, but in other way. Have an opportunity to easy save literally after every down should not be the case. One successful rescue can already cost the game to killer.
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They should, but not in their current state. It shouldn't be "guaranteed easy match, because i took an offering" for both sides.
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@idefinitelyloveDBD said:
absolutely not lol. it's still functional for at least a minute. sure it's a very noticeable nerf, but nerfing survivor perks because of this is pretty extra imho. i think it shouldn't be 60s minimum to 90s maximum but be 90s overall for the timer to go away. that's a lot more reasonable than gutting every survivor healing perk in existence.
@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653472#Comment_3653472
In the title you silly goose
I would prefer not to nerf anything. But one can't go live without another imo.
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@jesterkind said:
See, the problem is that the perks you're talking about aren't bad. (Mostly.)
Ellen got Light-Footed, a really strong stealth/chase perk, as well as the reasonably strong and fun to use Chemical Trap. Even Lucky Star, which is a little under-tuned, still does something useful and worthwhile.
Gabriel got the ultra strong MFT, sure, but he also got the strong and useful Troubleshooter. Scavenger less so, sure, but two out of three ain't bad.
Alan Wake launched with one super strong perk, Champion of Light, and then his other two perks are reasonably useful but less strong.
The fact of the matter is that survivors have all released with at least one (but normally two) good strong perks, the content survivors are getting lately is not abysmal. This is a community perception issue, not a game design issue.
This.
Seems like "not garbage" perk is only something game breaking level.
Quick Gambit literally can't be buffed more, it's already strong perk on indoor maps and stupidly strong on Gideon.
Lucky Star is very underrated perk for soloq. And Light-Footed could be very useful.
Champ of Light is super strong perk and crazy strong in SWF.
Cage had two perks, which became one of my most loved.
Troubleshooter saved my butt in so many 50/50.
Background player was overbuffed.
Cut Loose not amazing, but sometimes very useful perk.
Mikaela wants your drama.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653330#Comment_3653330
Survivors I feel really don’t want any killer to get better at all. They complained about her reload speed being 1 second faster and acted like it was the end of the world for some reason.
She wasn't one of the first to need changes, it's true, but she definitely needs them. Changed number of hatchets is unlikely to reach live, but I won't be upset, she doesn't really need it, especially after reducing the time to pick them from the locker.
She one of the easiest killers to loop, because in some loops you are just forced be M1 killer with her, but your power needs to justify your 4.4, what is not the case with her.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653330#Comment_3653330
Nemesis? This guy need to hit 3 times. And his add-ons are terrible bad. Also his range is pretty short.
Xeno? Really? He is just better version of Nemesis with even shorter range.
I don't even know why Chucky is here. He is not range killer, he is dash based killer. So he is not sharing anything common with Huntress.
Nemi and Alien has way shorter "wind-up" with 4,6, why Huntress can't have her 10% buff with 4,4?
Chucky yeah, nothing common, except he being 4,4 killer with power, which will give you a hit almost always and can't be outplayed just by predropping or endless greeding.
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I don't know what this overreacting and "she doesn't need buff" claims. She definately needs movement speed and wind-up buffs, maybe not more hatchets. I don't know how it possible to think she is in the good state, when Nemi, Alien and Chucky exists, who put way less effort to land a hit.
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@CammyChameleon said:
Yeah it's overkill literally just using one perk out of the 16 possible on a fully Team (Botany) will counter the killers one sloppy perk AND still heal 25% faster afterwards.
This change is just not it.
You can bring Dying Light and help to neutralize Mangled for survivors LMAO
What scares me even more: variety of killers' perks will be in the worst place after this nerf. There only gen perks and some info (if you ignore that Distortion exists) left, if you are not memeing around.
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I tested it a lot and it's buff in one way and nerf in another. 2 tokens were too strong, because if you missed a hit, you just got another try in 4 seconds, what means almost no window for survivor to reach another loop. Now it's more rewarding if you outplay him.
And this addon was not good with two tokens in any combo besides double Iri, so it now could be used with others. I'm sure you don't want to see only double Iri Blight.
Stop overreact just because some number was increased, it's not always a buff.
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@CammyChameleon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652418#Comment_3652418
My suggestion for this was if you are in a Party, you can't have any duplicate perks, as we see that works in Comp dbd for balancing.
However to make it not miserable for Solo Q, they are not limited to their perks since they loaded in individually.
Yes, that's what i'm talking about.
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I completely agree with this. The only way Adren could stay as it is – if SWF won't be able bring same perks.
@fussy said:
Absolutely yes. This perk is fine by itself, but beyond broken when whole team equip it. ~30% of my games are teams who just ignore everything in the game except gens and it doesn't matter how much pressure you provide on them, because it's 4 Adrenalines. Literally just had another one an hour ago: one gen left, 3 bodyblocks, predrop -> 3 Adrens + 2 Hope, gg ez. The only more braindead gameplay in this game is Nurse with 4 aura perks on Midwich/Gideon.
I completely agree with a comment I read recently: if this perk had been released on PTB today, it would never have reached to live version. This is a fine and fair perk on its own, but it is not a 1v1 game, it's 1v4.
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Artist, then Dredge, then Knight, then Slinger, then SIngu.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651439#Comment_3651439
You sort of proved my point. You say her counterplay hasn't even changed. I had no idea because I haven't read up about her changed. I figured it had changed significantly.
'Other changes you are learning while game, if player doesn't read patch notes."
That's exactly my other point. I think I've seen her twice and I don't even recall how the game went. So I haven't experience enough in game to know. It's not and "excuse" it just how it is. I don't sit down and read about every change and I don't play much these days so it might take a while to have the game expose to know if much has changed.
Wait, you did drones before. Now she is changed. Shouldn't your first thought be "i should try do drones again possibly", even if you don't know about what is changed about her?