fulltonon
fulltonon
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Honestly? having a survivor die mid game itself is a "problem" if we think about it.
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Have you seen skull merchant update?
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If more than 2 survivors are injured, it's already not a "camping" nor "tunneling" at that point.
There is decent amount of times BEFORE someone gets hooked, as people can chase and buy time, it's not as problematic as people think it to be.
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@Blueberry said:
This does the opposite and de-incentivizes tunneling as it encourages the killer to spread pressure.
By this broad of a definition of "increasing tunneling" we could almost say anything increases tunneling. "insert random killer buff" increases tunneling since it's harder to save.
Eh? you can just insert killer nerfs too.
Faster gen time? killers tunnel more because there is no time, longer hook time? killers tunnel more cuz camping is harder, slower attack cooldown? killers tunnel more because time is valuable.
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@Peanits said:
I respect the theory, but I assure you there's nowhere near as much scheming going on as you might think. I would love nothing more than to announce some changes and celebrate with people as they say, "Wow, this is perfect!" from the get-go. Obviously that's easier said than done with an asym game, but we try our best.
In reality, we just aren't afraid to try bold things. The PTB exists for a reason. We can try these things out and see how people feel. If it's not popular; that's fine, we can change it before it goes live. We've gotten a lot better at this as time has gone on. There's a lot more knobs and switches we can fiddle with behind the scenes to make these changes a lot quicker than before, making it less risky to try. Basically, be bold, but be receptive.
Ultimately, nobody can say for sure how people are going to feel about something until it's actually out there. Not even us. We would much rather test things and get feedback than be too scared to touch anything and constantly wonder, "What if?"
Honestly I think being bold itself is much better than taking eternity to change things, as difference more or less motivates people to play.
I feel it might be better if we can have separated in-game event rather than PTB for those things though, as PTB is only on PC, takes storage space, and also is separated from base account.
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none of those are related to healing at all, it's about survivor's choice and nature of tunneling.
There is no situation where saving 1 hooked injured person with your own body will not worth it, if survivors decide to not do objectively good choice they are just bad.
Hell, hook trade literally do exists, and proven to be fairly effective.
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Huh? hit and run is not related to 3 genning at all, 3 genning has been nerfed this patch.
Have you even read the patch notes?
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You don't need healing for camping/tunneling killers lol
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When BHVR removes the hatches, it might happen LOL
Game is not made with the mind of "it should be xxx", for some reason they NEVER want a game to be "fair" or "balanced" in that sense.
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@Pulsar said:
It was not.
Tinkerer pops, go to gen, chase Survivors off gen, watch gen regress. Repeat until Ruin + Undying was broken.
That doesn't work unless there is only 3 gens which is close enough though.
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Honestly I don't get what's so important about hook systems?
it's something objectively bad akin to kobeing penalty and stage 2 skill checks, There is no real "pressure" for hooks aside from the fact people will die if they ignore it anyway, so why not make a change
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Healing can be already nigh impossible with certain builds yet none seems to be major, I doubt it to be as good as people think.
There is plenty of times BEFORE someone goes on hook even if injured, those who camp and tunnel will not be affected because there is no way those killers can spread injuries(because, in which case, no one is camping or tunneling LOL)
And it doesn't encourage gen rushing more than the base game itself, I mean there is literally nothing else to do from the beginning so I doubt that to be problematic either.
If you NEED to think about heal or not, that is exactly what they wanted to achieve, the idea of "injuries to not be something that can be patch up in seconds".
We really should stop caring about those who DC in any way too, those people can DC for even the slightest changes, game is much better without having those kind of players so maybe just crank up the penalty a lot.
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Honestly make it 300 seconds or 600 seconds, It's not something many care.
If we want "balance" we could have same 60 seconds timer for first stage and 240 or so seconds for second, so camping is still viable strat but can not kill them straight.
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I think slugging is still better than being hooked? you can move around unlike in hook.
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@IronKnight55 said:
I think a lot of people will leave or switch sides if those horrid healing changes make it to live. Good luck finding games as killer as well.
Edit- Not to mention the amount of people that will DC after the update...
I doubt we need to care about those who intentionally hurt the game by themselves.
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There is no way low skill level survivors can heal themselves over and over, they will get spotted quickly or tunneled out even before they try to heal.
Well and this is only true if we expect killers to not be a low skilled killer which can't properly chase survivors.
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Agreed, we should remove red stains completely.
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Eh solo queue players would be happy seeing CoB/overcharge combo dead, as it will tremendously help them when they need it most, which is 3 gen situations.
Healing nerfs wouldn't be as bad as it seems when all the slowdowns are this weak.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
In this scenario the Killers managed to injure all four Survivors and non of them thought about healing until one of them got hooked; in other words, a skillful play from the Killer, leading to well earned pressure, combined with a massive missplay from the Survivors leaves the Survivors in a tough spot. I see no issue.
Don't forget there is plenty of great healing perks and even just a medkit, will mostly negate this "problem" too.
The idea of nerfing heals itself definitely isn't a problem.
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If you buy it, they won't fix it.
Simple as that.
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It doesn't even matter whether it's op or not, the problem was if it's used lot more than other perks lol.
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It's not like spine chill which somehow showed stealth killers, right?
I don't see any problem there.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382250#Comment_3382250
The Insidious Bubba thing was mostly a meme.
This really just lets the average Killer camp extremely effectively, once again hurting Solo Q.
I think if it becomes actual time pressure/limitation rather than coordination issues, it would hit SWF more than solo q.
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I mean let's be real, trying to fight gen speed with regression perks was a mistake.
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Hook is what has to be changed from fundamental anyway, it's the roots of literally any problem this game has.
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drama? I don't see any drama, just a funny patch.
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Honestly it's just a seasonal levels in current state so removing depip is only logical changes we can do now.
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@Steakdabait said:
im like 95% sure that only the info part of it lasts 60 seconds while the regression increase lasts forever.
It doesn't makes sense to have overcharge in the game at all if that's the case, I don't think so.
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Those changes are kinda bold and honestly doesn't seems very well thought out, but then big changes itself isn't bad.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381998#Comment_3381998
That's what CoB currently does. Everyone forgets that it has two effects, lol.
You get a loud noise notification for every good skill check hit during the 60 second timer.
Oops, I literally never noticed it exists lmao, sorry about that.
still I don't think the statement "completely regressing generators due to call of brine is not that rare" is true when it can only regress like 15% or so even with full duration for current effect though.
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@jesterkind said:
There's no situation where 25% extra regression for 60 seconds is worth it, no, but there's plenty of situations where 60 seconds of loud noise notifications for every skill check is pretty useful.
Meta-worthy? Nah. Usable? Oh yeah, absolutely.
That would be a fairly decent recon perk I think.
though I don't understand, Is that an actual change for CoB I missed or something else?
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375536#Comment_3375536
I had one where the hatch was on a hill and The Killer could watch all three generators. So effectively I couldn't do anything. Fortunately I was running Wake-up and Spine Chill so was able to open the door after he decided to finally close the hatch.
Why doesn't the hatch automatically close after a period of time? That would eliminate these scenarios. Either the survivor escapes, The Killer closes hatch, or The Entity closes the hatch after 3 minutes? The devs seem to pretend to be so concerned about not wasting time and moving on to the next match, but they still leave things like this in place that serve no purpose.
Or you could literally just let last survivor escape or die, either way it's more or less quicker and efficient.
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Reminder that the chase still kept even when there is a wall between you and the killer.
But funnily enough, if it's only for soloq and only for other three players, it would work.
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pure baits lol
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Truth behind "tunneling is not as efficient as people think it to be and you shouldn't do it" is "just tunnel better", lol
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Because survivors shouldn't have another tools to ruin other survivor's life I guess?
We already have hook suicide which we really shouldn't have, no need to add another.
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@wydyadoit said:
I disagree. The achievement for unhooking oneself 100 (or however many time) the perks that rely on it (slippery meat, up the ante, etc) salt offerings, and killer/survivor tactics/balance would all need to be completely reworked to support just a simple removal of unhooking oneself.
There is no such "tactics" around kobeing, and all the perks/achievements was already design mistake from the beginning.
Just rework those or remove those altogether, no one would be mad or sad, because literally no one run those with serious reasons.
There is undeniably extreme harms to the game with sole existence of those systems, and there is certainly not a single benefit of keeping it, only valid reason for it is "because I want to have a method for free DC" which is obviously ridiculous.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355558#Comment_3355558
It really isn't that bad.
Also, high MMR isn't really a thing.
Then let's ask BHVR to show it, both MMR numbers and actual statistics.
It'd be fun really.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355555#Comment_3355555
Here is the thing, your solutions still do not do anything other than delay what is bound to happen.
If someone wants to throw the match, they are going to throw the match, why else would forums posts of people DCing, giving up on hook, working with the Killer, etc. be so common to begin with? Uh, I dont know, maybe because you cant "fix" people throwing matches, you can punish them or attempt to reduce it, but you cannot outright prevent it without major changes.
And the delay is all that is needed, if throwing the game is harder, people rather just "play it out" or simply stop queing up, this is why there is a penalty for it and there MUST be a penalty for it.
There is no fix for human's mind, literally none, trying to fix it is pointless.
game balance is entirely different matter, just fix the hole and do the work IF there is still a problem.
So there is no point in trying to stop BHVR from removing design issue, you should just ask those things in your own post, not here.
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Monthly statistics would be pretty fun I'd say.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355535#Comment_3355535
People will always throw a match regardless.
If Survivors cant DC, they will off themselves on hook. If they cant off themselves on hook, then they will just throw themselves in front of the Killer for all 3 hook states. Etc.
The only way to remove this would require large overhauls to the game that people on both sides will hate.
Making it hard to throw a match WILL make people stop doing it, no matter how you say or believe it doesn't.
You know how much people DC when DC penalty is not there? same thing, people do it because it's easy, no exception.
We don't need overhaul to fix obvious hole in the bucket, just patch it up, it's SO easy.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
This would be a horrible idea, at least I think so.
Then just remove kobeing altogether and rework slippery meat, It's just that I will gladly take "survivor buff" over giving free rights of throwing the game for arbitrary reasons.
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Only proper way to fix it is by making killers much more oppressive, to the point no one bother "play" with them.
There can't be any detection system for actual game mechanics which isn't even abuse.
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Because it has been done solely to make players tilted, people tend to read intention behind the behavior/act, and not just act itself.
It's not something hard to understand, really.
Basically any of human communications are pretty much that, "reading the actual meaning behind act".
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Don't you think staring at people trying to rescue you is fun?
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I wish it to have something more impactful/meaningful than nerfing solo q more lol
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@Vagab0ndCat said:
I will never understand why would anyone do this, playing nice I mean.
Usually when survivors are really really bad at chase to the point I feel bad for them, but oh god, it doesn't always mean they aren't actually good at it or can stick to generators 24/7.
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Not much "being nice", but when I intentionally let easy target escape it can easily ends up with losing lol.
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I think pipping is only about killing/escaping though?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3354703#Comment_3354703
i think his point is that buffing kick regression simply encourages killer to camp 3 gens more because their position is strengthen. Its not really helping them slow the game down in a practical sense. in order for killer to get practical rewards for kicking gens, they would need like 400% regression speed for kicking gens for playing normally but it would make 3 gens completely unbearable.
a possible fix to the problem is adding a regression limit to each gens. for example, each gen can only regress 60 charges(60%). Suppose default killer regression is 400%, COB and OC can be reworked add extra max progression. COB could be that it increases max regression by +15%, so total is 75% and OC could be that it recharges max progression by 1 every 0.25 seconds. this is just one possible solution.
5% will more or less matters, at least more than 2.5%.
changing original proposal and talking things around that is pointless, ultimately you said "it wouldn't matter but buffing it to 5% wouldn't be problematic" which is just equivalent of agreeing.
Literally no one asked 400% regression and let alone "regression limit" here.