fogdonkey
fogdonkey
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I think using kills/escapes is maybe a good enough solution.
Using the hockey analogy is not really a good comparison for current DBD, because in hockey the whole team is evaluated based on the number of goals, not individual players.
MMR in DBD should work in a similar way, the entire team should be evaluated after the match is done. Yes maybe there will be corner cases when a survivor is hiding all the time and still escapes, but that behavior is not sustainable and eventually will start losing.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2788438#Comment_2788438
Ok. Which part of my post did you not read? He screwed up the dead hard, I downed him and picked him up because of that. Then there was DS.
And which part of my reply did you not read? I wrote counters that work "during the game", not when it is already at the end.
If someone goes down with DS in an open exit gate you can't do anything, the survivor used their perks in a smart way to get out.
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During endgame with multiple survivors still alive it can be very difficult against a well coordinated team.
Dead hard: bait it out, or get close, wait a bit and hit (not lunge)
During game: don't chase the unhooked guy: you counter BT and DS. If the unhooked guy wants a hit because of BT then hit them and continue chasing the unhooker. You counter DS and the unhooked survivor will have to spend 15 seconds mending.
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Yeah, playing killer is fine.
Also I can't get really mad at tbag, clickyclicky, or if they manage to pull off a 4man escape. Endgame chat can be sometimes interesting, often I reply something kind to calm them down.
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@feng_min_main2003 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784666#Comment_2784666
Also when else can I do Besides complain? You're complaing because I come and vent to other players about the same issues they're having so I can keep my sanity? You're literally just a scummy Toxic killer main
I already told you what you can do in my first or second comment, and you chose to continue complaining.
Also.. what if the killers slug you so that the can keep their sanity? Think about it as well.
And why do you think I am a killer main? This again shows how your vision is narrowed in, you just see what your brain wants to see and can't objectively assess the situation.
I play both killer and survivor, a bit more killer because of queue times. But even if I was a killer main does that immediately mean that what I say can't be true or correct?
I wasn't complaining, just tried to help. Think about these things, now it's on you to make the next step, I can't help you anymore.
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@feng_min_main2003 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784645#Comment_2784645
You can't just use the "it's just a game" argument "I Just shot your son lol" it doesn't matter what it is you are allowed to get mad, I get camped and tunneled and slugged and slug camped so often even without boil over, even before this update that my win/death ratio doesn't look good yet I still have high MMR
Sure, then feel free to continue complaining bon the forum how you get camped, tunneled and slugged to death all the time.
But you also say you have high MMR, which indicates that you escape a lot of time... This is a little contradiction, so make up your mind.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784645#Comment_2784645
Says the guy with a Leatherface profile picture. Tsk tsk tsk.
Not sure what does it have to do with anything. Your prejudice solely based on a profile picture is weird.
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@feng_min_main2003 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784622#Comment_2784622
Tbh if I had thought of it at the time I would've gladly shown him the hook, not my fault you just play toxic killer and that leaves you nothing to complain about
I would recommend you to step back, take a deep breath and calm down. This is just a game... If it annoys you so much, then stop running boil over. Or accept the fact that some killers will just slug you for it.
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On one hand it gives advantage. On the other hand if the MMR system works well it would not be a problem... Stretch res players would just face a lot stronger opponents where stretch res doesn't help anymore.
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Poor Feng min... The boilover didn't work out and immediately comes here to complain on the forums...
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Guys, you are too fragile...
Even if they are trash talking you in their stream for made-up tunneling or camping... Why do you care? It is just some random dude who decided to stream for their 5 viewers...
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Generally it is better for survivors to split up and don't stay together. So a perk which rewards the opposite seems reasonable to me.
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Bloodlust is a good game balancing mechanic
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SBMM is not the problem.
The problem is that it is not working correctly or that it can't create reasonable matches based on it for some reason (bug, bad implementation, not enough people to choose from, etc.)
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EU
Survivor afternoon: less than a minute
Killer evening/night: almost instant
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Bubba. Or buy them both if you can, it is not that expensive to waste on it that much time thinking.
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If you don't tunnel you usually don't even notice DS or BT.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779542#Comment_2779542
You aren't wrong - but it's a bit stinky to try to get a killer perk nerfed when there are far, far more annoying and powerful survivor perks in the wild.
If you are pointing out an inconsistency or a higher priority change needed, that's not whataboutism. If my car has a scratched door and a busted muffler, and I complain about the door my mates aren't whatabouting when they tell me to get the muffler fixed first.
Discuss it in a separate thread. Don't mix your unrelated comments here.
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Because devs are adults and know not to be annoyed by flashlight clicking or Ctrl pressing.
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Don't mix politics into this game
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I don't like those TTVs who don't actually stream.
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I play killers for fun, not because of some MMR numbers.
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This is a game, and they write something that fits into the game lore. No need to think too much about it.
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You decide if the bloody cosmetic is worth it for you.
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Nothing, because we are able to handle swfs as well. Maybe just the most elite swfs not, but a buffed soloq will be no problem.
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So now you can write a forum post about it or just move on and start a new match.
Yes, in this corner case the MMR calculator though that you lost. You have to look at the result of many matches, not just pick this outlier case.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764438#Comment_2764438
Using Nurse as a justification for more stats is pretty weak, since she is the only Killer who is very different from all other Killers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764459#Comment_2764459
Even if you include all of this, people would still find reasons to see why the stats are not true.
With the current stats we have, you can at least see that playing Killer is not as bad as people claim it to be.
It would be still interesting to see it, even if just nurse is special at first glance. We can't know until we see actual data. Btw, devs mentioned that Twins also has high kill rate at high MMR.
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According to the Q&A the MMR and predicting match results is working correctly.
What is not working is creating balanced matches e.g. because time constraints.
So what happens? The matchmaking will take 4 survivors with e.g. MMR 100 and match up against a killer with MMR 1000 and say: sorry guys, the killer will most likely 4k. And the actual result: 4k.
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Next to the icon a progress bar could show up as well to show gen/heal/cleanse/etc progress.
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A terror radius icon should be added as well
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@ShinobuSK said:
I like the buff but not all of those icons should make it into game imo, gens healing totems are cool. Even being camped could be in.
But chase and exit gates are a no from me
The chase is important, that's one of the most common things that SWFs tell each other: "the killer is chasing me"
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761434#Comment_2761434
What is the difficulty by simply reducing the cost on the bloodweb?
Like all 3000 items cost 1500, all 5000 2500... That would also reduce the grind immensly.
My thoughts:
Possible problem: everything is so cheap that you can buy more items/addons/offerings than you can actually use while playing. It would make lower tier addons/items/offerings useless.
That's why in my opinion having the perks in the same bloodweb as addons/items/offerings is not a good system. But this would mean a larger rework which is not a topic of this thread.
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@lauraa said:
I'm fine with perk tires if we could just get more BP per match. Make this blood rush base kit or something
More BP is not an ideal solution: you will be able to buy more addons/items than you can actually spend by playing. So lower tier addons and items will become useless.
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@Peanits said:
To go into details on that a little bit, removing them is not as simple as selecting tier 1/2 of each perk and pressing delete. In order to reduce each perk to one tier, you'd have to update the bloodweb to support it (and additionally, add support for any already-generated bloodwebs that contain perks below tier 3). Likewise, the perk tiers would have to be removed from the UI wherever they appear, and any place a tier 1 perk could appear (e.g. In the Shrine), you'd have to update it to show the tier 3 version of the perk instead.
So while it sounds very simple and can be said in a couple words ("Remove perk tiers"), it would actually be a substantial amount of work.
As for why it's not a permanent solution: Each time new content is released, not only does the amount of perks increase, but the number of characters you need to unlock all those perks on increases as well. Since you have two different factors increasing here, the grind is increasing exponentially over time, not linearly. Even if removing perk tiers would make it manageable for now, sooner or later it would catch back up and become a massive grind again. We've made changes in the past to reduce the grind, such as reducing bloodweb cost/size, adding additional perks to bloodwebs, etc. While these worked great in the short term, the grind always caught up eventually.
Would it reduce the grind pretty significantly for now? Yes, absolutely! But if we're going to spend a bunch of time on something to fix the grind, it makes more sense to spend the same amount of time and work on a permanent solution instead. (And for what it's worth, we do have something else planned for it!)
Long story short, it's not to shoot down the idea of removing perk tiers. It would reduce the grind, absolutely. It would just take as much time as a more permanent solution.
Thanks for the reply.
I understand that it is not a long term solution, because the grind is increasing quadratically (not exponentially, or please explain why is it exponential instead of quadratical). But based on my calculations the killer grind would come back to current levels only after ~5 years. 5 years seems like a good intermediate solution. The number for survivor is probably similar.
Yeah, it is not just pressing a delete button, but updating blood web code and UI also can't be that difficult.
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@anarchy753 said:
I hate hearing this sort of answer every time the devs respond to stuff.
"That wouldn't be a good solution, because the grind increases exponentially but this solution is a flat reduction."
You know what's NOT a good solution to the grind increasing rapidly every patch? DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS ON END BECAUSE MOST OF THE OPTIONS ARE FLAT REDUCTIONS.
Seriously, outside of bloodpoint gains/caps being manually increased by the same percentage as the cost to get every perk maxed on every character increases, what possible solution would fix an ever-growing grind permanently?
Even then, a flat reduction by removing perk tiers WOULD have a permanent effect, because every patch would grow the cost to max the perks by 1/3 of the amount it currently does.
Yeah.
Removing perk tiers would delay the problem by 5 years: we would have the same amount of grind like today in around 5 years. Which is I think a good enough intermediate solution. Maybe the game won't even exist in 5 years or if it still exists, then the devs will have plenty of time to come up with a "long term" solution.
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The devs are just mindgaming...
After the grind fix, mori rework, they will also fix face camping. But the game will be dead long before that.
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@ChurchofPig said:
First it's a bandaid fix like @Aven_Fallen and the devs during the Q&A said.
They also implied that removing perk tiers would force them to rework all the perks in the game? But they wouldn't have to, they would just take the highest tier and make that the perk. So I'm not entirely sure. It probably DOES have to do with how it is in the coding.
One thing they are right about is it would only be a bandaid fix, but I think that the devs don't realize, even though the grind will get eventually worse again, there is a strong possibility the game is dead by then. 270 and 303 perks respectively narrowed down to 90 and 101, it'll be a while before you get to those massive numbers again. I still get the point that it means the grind will continue to get worse every new release again.
Bandaid fix, but actually it would be helpful for the next 5 years. The killer grind would reach current levels again only after 5 years. See my calculation a few comments above.
It can't be that hard to remove, because the differences between tiers are just some constants. It would not require code changes in actual game code. They would need to just change a bit the blood web code.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
As they said, it would be a band-aid fix. Something which the Community criticises the Devs for.
And, for me personally, removing Perk Tiers would remove a lot of excitement for new players. When I was new, getting Perks was the most exciting thing when leveling up my Characters. And if you remove Perk Tiers, you would run out of new Perks before you even have 4 Perk Slots unlocked.
So they should rather look at other solutions.
But I know the community will not understand it that the Devs dont want to remove Perk Tiers and will keep asking for it.
It is a "bandaid" fix, which would actually be helpful for the next 5 years. The killer grind would reach current levels after 5 years. See my calculation a few comments above.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Probably is rooted in the code too deep and they would need to change bloodweb along with it or something.
But if they know its needed why not just increase BP gain or something until they are able to change perk tiers? I really dont get that answer
I doubt that it would be more difficult to remove than to do some even more advanced rework.
It can't be rooted too deep in the system, all that changes in perk tiers are some constants.
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@Labrac said:
It's a very long term solution. Right now if we want to get all perks on Tier 3 in a new killer, you need to get 267 perk tiers. If you remove perk tiers, this goes down to only 87 perks. This also reduces the grind for the next killer at the same time because you now need to grind 90 perks instead of 276.
For the number go up again to 267, BHVR needs to release another 60 killers, which in the current schedule would take 15 years.
You have a little flaw in your calculation, you forget that the new perks need to be unlocked on old killers.
Currently there are 26 killers and 90 killer perks (26*3 unique ones and 12 generic).
So to unlock all the perks on 3rd tier on all the killers you need to go through 26*90*3=7020 perk buys.
If they would remove perk tiers the killer grind would reach the current levels at 46 killers:
46 killers would mean 150 killer perks which would need 46*150=6900 perk buys.
So this means that removing perk tiers would help for the next 20 killer releases which is by the current pace around 5 years.
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Or you could mention what are you working on, what ideas were rejected and why, etc.
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Thank you!
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I agree with the video, MMR is needed.
The devs should however improve how the matchmaking works, because it sometimes happens that I face completely new baby survivors.
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@KajdanKi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2760139#Comment_2760139
no its not.
If noed occurs survivors either ######### in their pants or know what to do - look for totems.
Im 99% soloQer and it is total failure or total success so 50/50 actually, depends on skill of other survs
SWF can organize themselves a lot better when it comes to locating the totems. I am not saying that solos are not able to handle noed. I am saying that SWFs can do it a lot easier.
If you have different opinion, that is fine, no need to respond.
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The problem with NoED: strong against soloQ, weak against SWF.
So the problem is actually the gap between soloQ and SWF.
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Without gen speed regression I think it would enable even better genrush. The survivors would have less motivation to leave a gen and go for unhook.
With gen speed regression maybe it could work?
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Just forget anything you heard about NFTs.
If you buy Pinhead DLC you are not buying or getting any NFT.
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Or the devs could just simply remove the bloodpoint cap
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Being able to easily unlock all the perks is not a problem. It should have been always like that. And even after these increased rewards it will stay pretty grindy. They should remove perk tiers as well.
A potential issue could be that players will be maybe able to afford to run the strongest addons all the time. I am not sure if it is really a problem, but having weaker version of the same addon will become useless (unless they want to stack them).
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@dugman said:
I doubt they would ever make all perks available to all killers from day 1, in part because they don't want to overload new players with too many choices. Hypothetically the idea of the bloodweb is it's a way to introduce new stuff to new players one bit at a time. Yeah, a downside to that is it's a pain for some veteran players who might want to just get all the perks on all the killers, but the upside is allowing new players to focus less on trying to read 90 perks and more on just playing the game with some starting options and adding in new things over time.
Now all that said, the devs have mentioned occasionally that they have gone back and forth on the idea of making all perks just have their Rank 3 effects automatically and doing away with Rank 1 and 2 altogether. The initial idea of having multiple ranks of perks in the first place was that they were worried the bloodweb might be a bit empty back when the game first released and they wanted to have enhancing your perks as something it offered. But now that there are almost 100 perks for both killers and survivors plus a ton of add-ons for every character the reason for having rank 1 and 2 perks is kind of obsolete. So it's possible that maybe, someday, the devs will just do away with those lower ranks altogether. Who knows? 🤷♂️
Makes sense. Removing perk tiers would be a good enough solution for me.