What if they removed hook timers
This isn't a change I necessarily think should be implemented but wanted to see what other people thought of it.
So what if they removed hook timers, so a person could theoretically stay on the infinitely, but while a survivor was on the hook gen speeds were halved and for each survivor that was hooked it'd be an additional 25% debut to global gen speeds.
My thought process is that this would encourage more interaction and altruism while making camping completely useless, though it would drag the game out for awhile.
Would need to be some caveats to how this would work in things like a 3 gen or something but just as a base game change what would your reaction to this be?
Comments
I mean, my first thought is infinite face camping?
Well, Bubba mains will be happy.
This is an incredibly huge nerf to killer. Infinite hook timer would legit kill the game against better opponents. Camping is an important strategy and a crucial one for securing second stage or death on hook in specific situations.
Tactic gens over friends would get whole new level. So, it might end really bad.
It might work if you buffed the hell out of basic gen kick / regression, or just something to help killers.
I mean they could garuntee one kill which they already can but that would be all and be cause there is no timer the survs would just get out eventually.
So would you want the hit to gen progression while a survivor is on hook to be larger maybe even 100%?
If they enjoy only ever getting 1 kill sure.
So players couldnt be forced out of the match no thank you
Hook timers could be reintroduced in during egc
I'd probably just stop playing really, forcing 12 hooks every game does not sound fun at all.
Also getting rid of camping would make tunneling way more prevalent as a result, which is also not fun for anyone.
Make it 0.1% gen speed instead, game would be fun then.
One thing your not thinking about is holding a game hostage this change would make it so simple to make some players dc this is why i cant see them ever implementing it unfortunately.
I mean if everyone is hooked obviously the game would end, and the ability to try and get off the hook would still consume a hook state. Wouldn't games with more hookstates on average be a good thing? For both sides?
My problem with that is that the game should still be able to progress at a semi reasonable pace if a survivor is left on the hook because of camping or proxying maybe 100% decreased gen progression would be fine though.
At that point we could remove 3 or 4 of gens and game would have much less clutter too!
Do you mean killers, survivors or both holding the game hostage? For whichever you mean please explain how?
Another issue is that this would create slugging meta.
That would just lead to extremely quick games if people played the game normally instead of trying to promote more interactive playstyles by making camping and gen rushing/gens before friends less viable.
One survivor on hook, one hiding.
That's true it could, there would have to be changes to slugging as well to come with this.
And what change would you do to help killers?
Infinite hook timer would kinda fix tunneling too, because you would just never have to unhook when killer is around.
Global speed penalties are bad for the game unless you can do something about them. This was the reason people hated "forever Freddy" and why "old Freddy" had his problems: They were not op but plain unfun and uninteractive.
If you think about "Scourge Hooks: Gift of Pain" you see how that concept changed: Here the survivors have A a choice to stay injured and have no penalty or to heal up and receive a penalty AND they can draw aggro again, eat a hit and remove the penalty from them.
On the hook you are helpless to do anything about this. With a removed hook-timer there would not even be an end to your misery and do something.
I am all ears for a change that punishes camping and rewards hooking. But I am not fine with an idea that just punishes survivors with a flat penalty.
How about I offer you a different solution: The game is now on a timer. Each new hook decreases that timer and when it hits 0 all survivors suffer from the end-game collapse death. With this each hook would push survivors further against the wall and force them to become more desperate. At the same time it would allow Killers who defend their generators and get hooks AND apply pressure with a huge reward.
Don't crows start showing up if a survivor doesn't interact with some kind of game objective or the killer?Ith a
3-gen would be close to impossible to beat with time limit.
No, you would have to stand still, or hide in locker. If you are crouching and moving around, they would never show up.
There are literally dozens of issues with this idea. Keeping people hostage, drawing out an already boring mechanic (repairing) to be even longer, not stopping people who want to camp from camping, killing off the game at higher levels of gameplay where not being able to force second stage/death on hook is beyond insanely exploitable, three gen situations, drawing out the game in general to ridiculous lengths, etc.
Absolutely, absolutely no.
Well they could unhook the survivor to get rid of the debuff if the killer is camping then it's just and 40 charges on each gen which wouldn't take long if gens are unprotected.
Your idea isn't bad either though, personally I'm not a huge fan cause I find match timers to be kind of stressful and would create a lot of situations where Survivors just give up since they don't have enough time or think they don't have enough time to win.
That could be an issue. This time limit idea was just a brainstorm and probably has even more flaws.
The problem would be that coordinated survivors would not suffer from this as they could prevent 3gens if they play well. SoloQ would once more bite the dust and get 3gened and end-game collapsed pretty often.
I just very much dislike the concept of a debuff for survivors for their teammates stupidity. Imagine if you have and AFKler in your match and he gets hook quickly. The Killer now plays fair and does not camp but goes chasing....
You would have created a debuff to all survivors who did nothing wrong. That sounds...not good.
A penalty or debuff for the person who got hooked on the other hand would sound more reasonable for me. Think about how Pigs Traps encourage Pig to leave the survivor alone because he is just not efficient and a good Pig will usually target anybody but the person with the funny hat.
If we could implement a mechanic with a characteristic like this we could reward Killers without punishing survivors who did nothing wrong.
As said: My "game timer" probably has many flaws and was just a quick brainstorm solution.
Looked it up and they would still need to move around the map a little but yeah that would probably need a change
There's no way to prevent camping without completely blocking off the area from the killer and that in itself would be hugely exploitable so I'm trying to come up with an idea that discourages it while also not completely neutering killer hence the global gen slowdown which is admittedly not the most elegant solution, which I why I'm trying to get ideas out of people to improve the idea. Idk why since it's pointless but I'm bored.
3 gens and proxying would definitely be an issue, and the system would definitely need some kind of system to help with that but idk what tbh
Also I 100% agree that doing gens is the most boring thing in the game to do but that's a different problem that this system would certainly exacerbate, but how survivors interact with gens also needs a massive change and I'm trying to come up with a fix to a different issue.
I mean killers can camp gen if there is only one, and camp hooks once he hook someone.
3 gens would certainly be an issue but there's never gonna be just one gen to defend
Without gen speed regression I think it would enable even better genrush. The survivors would have less motivation to leave a gen and go for unhook.
With gen speed regression maybe it could work?
It's not that easy to prevent 3-gen every game. I have maps where I just force 3-gen from start of the game. Azarov's Resting Place is probably best example for this.
Remember that generators are supposed to be "boring" they are a moment where you have less "stress" until the Killer is on your heels again. Such "downs" are important to make a game feel better for a player because constant pressure will drain you out pretty quickly. This is why many dungeon crawlers or RPG games have moments of peace in them.
I did not want to say that it was very "easy". My main message was supposed to be that soloQ would get the short end of that stick because they would have it even harder.
What do you think: Could gen-placement solve this?
That's the point of it, numbers would probably need tweeking one way or the other. Admittedly just a flat slowdown is kind of a lame way of doing it but it's the only thing I could think of.
Blocking off a gen per person hooked was another idea I had but that could make 3 gens an even bigger problem so idk.
It would be possible. You just have to make leaving hooked survivor better option than camping.
You could make base hook timer longer, like 10 seconds per stage would probably be enough. Then just buff base gen regression / kicking, so it's worth using and maybe create some mechanic that would activate when you hooked all survivors would be interesting, not sure what tho.
Idk, I dont think that would be enough, 20 seconds really isn't that much, if it was camaraderie, which is over 30 seconds, would probably be more popular.
Also maybe instead of a flat global gen progression debuff, if a survivor is hooked then all gens that are currently regressing ramp up in speed the longer they are regressing or just increase its regression rate by 100% while someone is hooked
Doing gens may be an intended down time but I do think they need to be more interactive and interesting then they currently are.
Well tbf that's more of a map design and gen spawn problem
There is not really how.
You have 7 gens total. So best result is 3 on each side and 1 middle, but that map is just so long that it will always be better option to pick a side + middle gen and never leave.
It's map issue, not gen-placement issue.
I definetly don't think global progression debuff is good option. It's just boring.
I would rather buff killer's options of gen regression overall, so it's more interactive. If you would buff base kick / regression, it would also make ruin / pop less viable, because difference between basic - perk wouldn't be that huge. So you might even see some new builds from killers.
And definetly don't link it with hooked survivor. It would be useless.
It's used a lot in tournaments. Problem is that is kinda "invisible" effect, so it's not interesting for normal players. Also you need killer to camp for it to be valid, which is just not each game thing. In most games you can easily play without it and BT is enough. This perk would be needed only when killer camps from first hook.
20 seconds is a lot of free time survivors can work on gens.
I know it's popular in tournaments but tournament play is almost a completely different game then normal dbd, plus it requires good team communication which simply can't happen in solo queue
I dont disagree that just a flat debuff to gens is the best idea but I feel like regression would have the same problem, plus gen tapping would make any reasonable buff to kicking gens fairly moot unless maybe making it so kicking a gen locks the gen for a certain amount of time then starts to regress maybe.
I also don't see how rewarding killers more for hooks would be useless either, since if your fear is just hook diving well then survivors are running to you and you aren't wasting time and if they leave the person on the hook then they're are being hit with the negative and even if they wait till the killer leaves then the killer can adjust and search the area around a hook first before leaving and probably find the person getting ready to save.
If gen regression would be faster only when someone is hooked, then you have an issue that you hooked someone, you have to walk to gen, kick it and at that time survivor is probably not on hook anymore, so that buff just doesn't work.
That's why I wouldn't link it.
I mean is it not usually the smart move to hook someone near a gen you are defending? Sure it's not always possible. It's definitely not my favorite way of going about it though, but just flat buffing gen regression is something that bhvr has already gone on record (if I'm remembering right at least) as saying they don't like so there's not much point in going that route.
I think the gen speed debuff would be better overall if they improved how interactive and interesting doing gens is. En
It's very good to hook survivor next to gen with progress, but that is usually in hands of survivors unless you are one shot type killer.
Usually when you hit survivor, they will (should) run as far as possible away from gens.