What if they removed hook timers
This isn't a change I necessarily think should be implemented but wanted to see what other people thought of it.
So what if they removed hook timers, so a person could theoretically stay on the infinitely, but while a survivor was on the hook gen speeds were halved and for each survivor that was hooked it'd be an additional 25% debut to global gen speeds.
My thought process is that this would encourage more interaction and altruism while making camping completely useless, though it would drag the game out for awhile.
Would need to be some caveats to how this would work in things like a 3 gen or something but just as a base game change what would your reaction to this be?
Comments
True that is the smart thing to do, but it's also the smart thing to spread out as survivors to spread your teams gen pressure which would if the team is smart would limit where they can run to in order to not be near any gens with progress. Again not always viable hell maybe not even usually viable.
The game really needs reward more hook states than it is currently and being able to camp someone from 1st hook to death should go away completely. It adds nothing to the game. Camping in general deserves to exist but it shouldn't reward killers nearly as much as it does now, and shouldn't reward them at all for trying to do it from 1st hook to death hook.
There is literally no situation in which infinite hook timers would not break the game in every single way. No.
Also the premise of the idea is under a flawed assumption that camping itself is an issue. It’s not. Kindred should be basekit so people can see if someone is being camped and thus work on gens, so solo has no excuse to waste time doing other shenanigans. Camping is easily punishable when done recklessly. It is stupid to punish camping in smart situations where it would be literally stupid to not camp.
Reckless camping like first to death is not rewarding unless the other survivors are morons and suicide for unhooks.
being able to camp someone from 1st hook to death should go away completely
No. What if I down somoene skilled at hiding in the end-game? Do I not deserve that kill when I literally have 0 gens to patrol anymore?
Camping in general deserves to exist but it shouldn't reward killers nearly as much as it does now, and shouldn't reward them at all for trying to do it from 1st hook to death hook.
Jesus. It does not 'reward killers'. Camping someone from 1st hook to death hook costs Killers the entire match. Literally, when you factor in chase time; 5 gens can pop before 1 Survivor dies, if they don't give up on the hook.
But Survivors demand rules and punishments and all sorts of BS because THEY decided winning was not enough; the person hooked deserves to not die, too.
Camping is a tactic. A bad one. Slugging is a tactic.Tunneling is a tactic. They don't need bullshit punishments and workaround because the people losing decided they should not have. End of story.
”Why does BHVR not listen to the community?”
Community: [Suggesting things that would literally kill the game]
Yeah but the proposed solution opens up so many more problems if you create 10 problems trying to fix 1 its rather bad troubleshooting. I think @SuzuKR is on the money with just this short list of issues alone. The whole point of hook timers is to add a sense of urgency to saves.
Lets go for an example, first hook, why bother saving them just keep doing gens you only need to go save them if a second person gets chased and hooked. Even if the gen time is longer its still more valuable to just keep doing gens because the hooked survivor is under no threat.
You could just leave the person on hook all game complete the gens and then unhook them and leave. No real threat to being hooked. Hook state makes up part of killer pressure. Survivors become less viable as their hook state increases, so you need to save people before second hook state or you greatly reduce their capacity to interact with the killer, making it riskier for them to go for saves etc.
2 full hooks required to have any pressure across all 4 survivors, gen speeds would have to be abysmally slow to rebalance the extra time sink of forced 12 hooks.
One killer and one surv can take hostage 3 survs. Not viable.
In my opinion making 120 seconds each hook phare and 120 seconds every generator (without grat skill chekc, tb or other stuff) it is a good idea thou.
Make each hook phase 2 minutes, and only increase generators by 40 seconds.
Literally make each hook phase 100% longer, and make generators only 50% longer. That's in no way a massive buff to Survivors, huh? 🤦♂️
Double post, sorry
+60 seconds to hook and +40 to gens yes. The hook is incremented 100% yes but the gen is only incremented 50% it is right!
The gen increase make rushing more difficult because the time of the gen is related with the time an average chase requires.
The hook increase make camping less time effective but the time must be increased more then the gen time.
If we increase +40 and +40 facecamping will remain convenient in the same way it is today.
It is not a surv buff because the chase time it is the same!
Why you always have to assume every proposal is a buff for the opposite side?
Why you always have to assume every proposal is a buff for the opposite side?
Your idea is literally a buff to Survivors. Heaven forbid I consider a buff to Survivors a...buff to Survivors?
You MAKE PERKS that REWARD not camping. Punishments will get the 40 or so remaining Killers to finally drop this game like a hot rock. Why is that so hard to understand?
Stop trying to PUNISH tactics that have times where they are valid!
It is not. If they need more time to complete a gen but you need the same time to find and chase it is not.
You need more time to wait someone die on the hook? Therefore is a nerf for you?
Then you facecamp regularly!
Then YES! IT IS A NERF FOR YOU! And it was intended being a nerf!
Because the topic is about nerfing FC!
I rarely facecamp, but I do find times where camping is required.
Let me spell it out for you:
2 minutes per hook gives Survivors AMPLE TIME to do gens, even with +40 seconds on each gen. This is not a fair trade or balance. This is a punch in Killer's faces with a light slap for Survivors. it's so Survivor-biased that it's not even worth considering.
And again: YOU. DO NOT. PUNISH. CAMPING. This is the WRONG mindset to have. This is a mindset that looks for the worst trash to throw into the game to spite Killers.
Make perks that encourage Killers to leave the Hook: BBQ. Devour Hope. Etc.
But ######### STOP with the toxic 'punishment' BS. No. Not happening. Never. It's trash. No one intelligent would accept it. The gods damned end.
"2 minutes per hook gives Survivors AMPLE TIME to do gens, even with +40 seconds on each gen. This is not a fair trade or balance. This is a punch in Killer's faces with a light slap for Survivors. it's so Survivor-biased that it's not even worth considering."
IT IS NOT! THIS IS THE MAIN REASON OF THE PROPOSAL!
IT SHOULD BE NOT A FAIR BALANCE!
We should improve chases over gen rushing and gen rushing over facecamping!
Stop complaining about something that IS OBVIOUS!
If the topic is about fighing FC then the proposal cannot be fair for a facecamper!
Jeez! It seem obvious!
And do not tell me FC is a viable strategy, it is not, Behavious already said they want it removed BUT they cannot because they never found an efficient way to fight FC without destroying the killers potential in endgame scenario (where is normal, what are you supposed to do?) or without severely damaging proxicamping.
FC is a cancer! BHVR simply never found out a way to cure this cancer without killing the patient.
Making perks that encourage killers to leave the hook? If you have a camper then i will not run the perks! SIMPLE! Some campers still run insidious! This is not effecting camping and it is proved by the fact that all the BBQ and NWO never diminished the camping!
Those perks are a ######### placebo!
CAMPING IS CONVENIENT! YOU MUST MAKE IT LESS CONVENIENT!
And there it is; you want to punish Killers because you're sad, and you're 'offering' a bullshit genspeed increase to make it more palatable.
No. Just because you're angry that camping is convenient does not mean camping should be given completely broken punishments. The idea is trash.
I'm done here, as clearly all you want to do is punish killers for not following the fake Survivor Rule #2: Don't Camp; It makes Survivors angry they lost.
I am main killer.
100% killer.
And sometimes i camp.
You always reply like the other person do not know what he is saying! ALWAYS! You accudes me several times to not play killer or to not know a specific killer!
Can you quit assuming other people know less than you because they have different opinions?
It's not having a different opinion that makes me assume people don't know what they are talking about.
It's when they literally suggest punishments or other such garbage that would totally break that game that makes me know they don't know what they are talking about. You know; when they say things that show they don't know what they are talking about.
Always man! I never heard you talking with a person with a different opinion and not assuming he is talking about something he completely do not know.
And do not try to go back on the track of my discussion now. You threated my proposal as absurd and unacceptable before, to not try a mediation now.
I am no interested in discussing ideas with a person that only have the purpouse to demonstrate he is right and the other people are wrong. This is not how "discussing" works.
You do not want FC nerfed? FINE! But this is a topic about nerfing FC (..."My thought process is that this would encourage more interaction and altruism while making camping completely useless, though it would drag the game out for awhile."...) because it seem some ######### not able to understand how the game works think it is UNFUN! INCREDIBLE!
Can you please let us special kids have our special moment without coming always and saying we know nothing?
You do not agree with +100% and +50%? FINE! I am explaining you why! But if this lead you to "You know nothing, why you always nerf the killer, git gud, do bones, try to play legion high mmr with no perks and blindfolded before speaking" then i am not interested anymore in talking.
I mean the gen slowdown from getting a hook rewards the killer and discourages tunneling and camping, while encouraging aggressive snowballing.
I like this idea, if it were looked at I'm sure it could be made balanced.
This thread implies that camping needs a nerf. It doesn’t. Make Kindred base, but that’s basically it. There is no excuse for losing to reckless camping if Kindred is base, and nerfing strategic camping is stupid. Stuff like this would literally kill the game.
I mean it does its not hard as a killer to camp one perso to death and while survivors waste time trying get them unhooked or searching for gens they die, then they can just do it to the next person. Some killers are better at it then others especially bubba and trickster if you know what you are doing with the right addons.
Also if it were so ineffectual then why does it happen in comp games all the time, not 1st hook to death but camping to ensure a hook state happens all the time and sure camping is a tactic and I'm not saying it doesn't have its place but currently it happens way to often because it's just an easy effective tactic.
And it doesn't take bad survivors it just take uncoordinated survivors which for an all solo queue team is impossible to expect all or even most of the time with so few tools to communicate in the game currently.
Also camping and gen rushing just aren't fun to go against so why do people defend them so adamantly. I don't get it, what's the problem with trying to move the game in a direction the rewards more interactive playstyles?
Doubling hook states could work too
Also I've already said that during egc timers would have to come back but you probably didn't read the rest of the thread to see that
I want to punish gen rushing and gens before friends tactics as well they're equally boring, same with the hold W meta but I dont have a clue on how to change that without just outright nerfing survivors like giving them a sprint meter or something stupid like that.
It would definitely take a lot of tweeking but the underlying intent is to make camping and tunneling less rewarding and convenient while making chasing and altruism more incentivised.
I'd be fine with that too honestly but that would just be a straight buff to survivors which would mostly benefit solos, which certainly isn't a bad thing, but base killer mechanics would need a buff to go along with that. Since bringing solos more in line with swfs would make most killers feel absurdly weak.
Well yeah, the idea is solo is buffed to SWF level of info, and then killer is buffed and rebalanced around everyone having that info, since existence of SWF is unavoidable. Thus no more juggling balance between solo and SWF (which never works out).
Bhvr could be given am accurate all encompassing playback on how to save their game and they'd ignore it anyways.
Also I literally said that I don't even think this should be implemented but I threw the idea out for discussion purposes but it was moved to feedback and suggestions by a mod.
Exactly the supposed changes to allow survivors to communicate what they are doing should help a little since bhvr seems resistant to the idea of making perks that should've been base kit, base kit.
IIRC, devs have actually tried this like 5 years ago to try and combat face-campers. It didn't work out very well and it was reverted, or it was tried on a beta and decided against, or something.
I do remember them trying it once though. This was also back when facecamping was a lot more busted in terms of "Balance." (Survivors could ONLY unhook from the front of the hook, meaning a literal "In your face" facecamper would block the unhook prompt. If you went AFK in front of the hook the survivor was doomed to die because it was physically impossible to rescue them.)
I think what they tried was just making it so the hook timer doesn't go down while the killer is within a certain vicinity to the survivor the problem with it was that survivors would loop in that area and if they went down they'd just wait for the killer to pick up to save and no progress for the killer was made since they also didn't implement some kind of killer buff to go along with the change so it was just a flat nerf to the killer.
While your efforts to come up with this are noble, this change wouldn't be healthy as explained in previous answers. But you actually give me a good killer perk idea: When you hook someone, the gen repair speed is cut by half, but so is the hook stage progression, until the survivor is unhooked. It would disencourage camping, but it would also disencourage the strategy of "just let me complete this gen, then I'll go save". It would also give the killer more time to use its pop.
I never thought this oulw necessarily be an overall good cha ge but was more looking at changes that would reduce gameplay strategies that eliminate interaction between sides. Basically camping and gen rushing I wanted to look at both are each other's counter but they also make the game a lot less fun.