dugman
dugman
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790202#Comment_2790202
Because the killer's base power is intended to either help them get injures, get downs, or both. A perk that is optional, can be applied to any killer, and only gives information is very clearly NOT intended for the same purpose. Anything built into a killer's kit directly is there for a purpose to aid them in either chase (antiloop,) or catching survivors off guard (stealth, or mobility.) Crows do literally neither of those things.
Its funny you keep mentioning doctor, since his power prevents vaults/pallet drops/even dead hard. Crows do none of those things. She has to land a skillshot that has a placement and release delay. The kicker is that she either needs to do it when there are absolutely zero physical obstructions, or she needs to land it twice within a period where a survivor holding the button to disperse her crows is only 1 second shorter by default than her ability to place and release more crows... or the survivor ignores her power completely and then gets confused and cries on the floor when they get downed (assuming they were injured to begin with.)
This is one of the easiest to counter powers in DBD history yet people still complain without taking a minute to learn how it actually works. You got your absolutely safe built in counterplay, yet you refuse to use it.
As for the 30 meters argument, you clearly don't even understand how it works in a simple loop, why would you pretend to understand what impact it would have at 30+ meters versus 28?
What are you talking about that I don't understand how the power works in a simple loop? Her crows are very strong at zoning survivors out of loops and away from vaults and pallets.
And where have I ever "complained about Artist"? I'm a killer main, I think Artist is a fun killer. I'm not "refusing to use a counterplay against her ability".
And why are you pretending that her ability to hypothetically do damage at very long range is anything but a gimmick? You're on the one hand agreeing with me that it's extremely easy to counter taking damage at very long range but then on the other hand saying that if that aspect of her ability set was removed it would be a significant nerf. It can't be both.
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Hmm, interesting question. Going through Stephen King stuff most of the books don't really seem to have a good killer for the game (e.g. hard to imagine Cujo or Christine or the monsters from The Langoliers being in the game). A couple of possible exceptions.
- The Shining: Jack would be kind of an average killer honestly, he's just a guy with an axe basically, but the Overlook Hotel and its hedge maze would make for a kick ass map pack!
- It: Pennywise could be an amazing killer. There's at least one great concept trailer out for it even.
- Carrie: Carrie could be a fun killer with telekinetic abilities potentially. Hard to imagine her outfit being even bloodier when you Prestige her though!
- The Running Man: Maybe one of the Hunters? 🤷♂️
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789880#Comment_2789880
the aura is only worth the perk slot on killers that can utilize it well. Killers like Pig, Billy, Nurse, Blight who use it either to know where everyone is, or to start the next chase as quickly as possible. Its also a perk that gets chosen in a loadout and not, you know, the killer's base power.
This isn't like pinhead's addon where his chains can injure immediately on hit. The artist's ability to injure survivors by hitting them while they have crows already on them is specifically to punish survivors who ignore her power. The time to remove crows vs the cooldown to fire more is a pretty clear indication of that.
I'm not sure why you're italicizing the killer's base power as if it has anything to do with anything. Doctor has all sorts of tracking in his base ability kit, are you saying he shouldn't because other tracking perks exist? What does a tracking ability being part of a killer's base abilities have to do with anything in this thread?
Also taking away the ability to do damage at extreme range doesn't take away the ability to do damage at up to 30 meters. Survivors still can't ignore crows when the Artist is in the area even if they hypothetically took away the ability to do damage with them beyond that range.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789739#Comment_2789739
That damage is only available if you either call her bluff or don't respect it. It's really easy to see coming and dodge, even if she fires a barrage.
Exactly, I said the same thing a few times already. Her extreme range damage is a gimmick, it's not a key part of her ability set.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789885#Comment_2789885
Then she'll just attack you as you're trying to solve it. So that won't work.
And that’s fine, she’s not literally afk then.
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@Aneurysm said:
You guys are gonna get the addon nerfed aren't ya 😓
I think the add-on is fine but the devs may want to make it possible to use the Jigsaw boxes from the sides like you can with gens.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789785#Comment_2789785
BBQ also isnt even remotely the same thing? Its aura reading isn't even very useful on most killers, its primary use is for points.
Well your complaint about the aura was you get to see them but be too far away to pressure them off. How is that any different from BBQ?
Also I don’t use BBQ personally but I know there are quite a lot of people who use it just for the aura.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789736#Comment_2789736
So you get to watch them sit on the gen and not move, without being able to punish it short of crossing the entire map? cool.
And BBQ likewise shows you info on distant survivors, but people still think that information is valuable.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789518#Comment_2789518
But her extreme range ability is sort of what makes her unique.
She would still have an extreme range ability for info, just not extreme damage. Also I would argue her short range aura tracking and zoning is also unique.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789528#Comment_2789528
Its not a nerf that needs to happen at all. If she couldn't do damage at all from longer distances, survivors would have zero reason to respect her power from long ranges. You just want to be able to sit on the gen without the risk of being an obvious target.
If survivors don’t respect the ability at long range they’re giving the Artist free information every time a crow hits them. It’s the info that’s valuable, not the snipe gimmick.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789518#Comment_2789518
Play her. For the love of all things sacred. Damaging people at a distance might as well not exist unless the survivor begs for it.
I agree, I said multiple times above damaging people at range is a gimmick, her real strengths are long range information, aura tracking in a chase and zoning at loops. That’s why I said removing her ability to do damage at extreme range isn’t a big nerf.
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@Laluzi said:
Hmm... I don't agree. Flashlights and maps still have distinct uses. Flashlights are popular enough (and have enough evident usefulness) that they don't need any help, and maps got new life with boon totems - they're very handy to have on a booner and save time locating totems, as well as the old hex-finding usage and incidental-or-challenge-relevant stuff like hatch/gate tracking. This also feels like it'd be a downgrade to the map function you can currently have, which is rather nice; seeing in a cone is much worse than seeing mapwide.
If any survivor item needs help right now, it's keys. I think the idea of having maps and keys having their functions rolled into one is much more suitable on both counts, because they're both already all about aura reading anyway.
Being popular and being effective aren’t necessarily the same thing, especially at the higher skill levels. Face camping is popular at lower levels but not optimal. Chasing a survivor for three minutes until the killer downs them is popular at low levels but a terrible strategy. Just because Flashlight see use doesn’t necessarily mean they’re actually good at what they do.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789284#Comment_2789284
It would be a huge nerf, and she doesn't need any nerfs. Her numbers are fine.
Right now, if you bird someone at range and they just stay on the gen, you can punish them and they can attempt to juke your punish. That's good - strong play, strong counterplay.
If she couldn't damage at range, it removes this entire element from her game.
DMS is certainly strong - but again, people seem to think that blocking is the same as regression. What actually happens to me against smart teams is that I've got 6 hooks at 5 gens, then suddenly I've got 7 hooks at 1 gen because all the damned things are 99%'d.
I didn’t say “remove her ability to damage at range”, I said they could remove her ability to damage at “extreme range”. Being able to do damage from say 30 meters out or less is still possible there.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789329#Comment_2789329
But in this case it's not a partial anything. If you let go of the gen before the hook, wait out the crow and go back, the gen is not blocked 100% of the time. Yes the artist can delay the crows to try and bait you back on early, but at that point it is their own time they are wasting. (And for killer, wasted time is a much bigger issue)
the counter is easy for any skill level, and even better, doesn't require an item, add-on or perk to counter. It's almost the same counter you should already be employing against BBQ. (And in fact, if you just treated every artist you see like they have bbq, you'll never get hit by DMS)
That’s not a “100% counter” because the artist can just send a new crow 10 seconds later and still block the gen for 35 seconds if you get back off it.
Also the counter for BBQ has nothing to do with not being on a gen so I’m not sure why you brought that up?
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Grades aren’t used for matchmaking. And based on your loadout and comment you’re clearly not actually a new player and probably had a pretty high rating last time you played.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789182#Comment_2789182
At the point where we are discussing people trying to out-counter the other, surely the perk is no longer in question? No counter is meant to be 100% there should be options on both sides, and there are.
Just because a partial counter exists doesn’t mean something isn’t potentially overpowered. You can try and bluff people onto using Dead Hard but that perk is by far the best and most popular exhaustion perk in the game to the point of probably needing a nerf. Clown’s Pinkie Finger add-on needed the nerf it got even though in principle a survivor can dodge the bottles. Same with the old Huntress Iri Head and the old Object of Obsession. Things can be overpowered without being literally unbeatable.
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I'm a killer main so I have no opinion on afk killers (other than that they’re being rude). On a tangent though I did have an afk survivor last night. I don’t know if the guy was deranking or what but he had no perks and was afk the whole match, kind of felt bad for his teammates.
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I doubt we’ll hear anything until June. They’ll probably keep a lid on what’s being released until their anniversary dev stream.
Meanwhile though Ringu’s release date would be third week of March, so by end of Februrary or so we’ll probably get the PTB for it.
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MMR is designed so that if everybody is around the same rating the match’s median results will be 1-3 kills averaging 2. That’s all it’s for, so measuring anything other than kills and escapes isn’t necessary in that regard. Doing gens and being good at chases increases your chances of escaping on average and MMR is about long term averages, not individual games, so measuring chase time and gen time isn’t needed either.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789183#Comment_2789183
It wasnt rude. I said I dont agree but everyone has their own opinions, you then proceed to link streamer videos. If you have your own opinion type it and say it, linking a streamer is their opinion and you clearly follow said streamer to see his videos.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789182#Comment_2789182
Iv just never had an issue with it personally, and I hate to see killers nerfed because of a perk, I think it's good some perks are better on other killers. It's nice to see different perks used tbh.
I just dont wanna see an decent killer turn into garbage like some of the others.
But the ranged attacks is what I like most as both sides, sticking it in a pallet doesnt give me "fun" moments
I have no problem with some killers getting more use out of some perks than others. (I love Distressing on Doctor, I would probably never use it on anybody else though.)
Also taking away the extreme range damage snipe of Artist would hardly make her “garbage”. Her main strengths are long range detections, auras during chases and zoning away from vaults. The ultra long range damage is just a gimmick really, ok if it happens but the ability is better used for info at that range than trying to snipe. And she was already a good killer even before the Dead Man’s Switch buff, you could remove that perk entirely and she’s still be a good killer.
As far as fun goes, that’s obviously just personal preference kind of outside the question of whether or not the combo needs tuning for balance purposes.
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As far as I know Artist isn’t overperforming other killers, she doesn’t need her anti-loop nerfed.
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- Hatch and Key and Mori changes. Keys letting multiple people out with a single key use was kind of busted
- Reduction of the number of infinites
- Map graphics updates, the game looks a lot better
- Tons of extra killers and maps, including some great IPs
- Replacing the Emblem system with MMR. (Emblem system matchmaking was terrible, worse than the current one.)
- Buffing Bubba, he used to be really awful
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789165#Comment_2789165
So basically nerf artist? And nerf the most fun part about her?
Doesnt seem like a good change to me, she has an audio cue afterall and has cool downs.
Many people have suggested the easy counters to it
Yes, if for the sake of argument Artist is actually broken in combination with Dead Man’s Switch then nerf Artist slightly. And I do mean slightly, those long range snipes are far from being the best part of her kit, or even in my opinion the “most fun” part.
And people have suggested counters but how effective they actually are is up in the air (so to speak). For example, the counter of getting off a gen, waiting for the crow, then getting back on can be countered by just staggering her birds a few seconds. And keep in mind, just because something is possible to mitigate somewhat doesn’t necessarily mean the thing in question isn’t overpowered. (Looking at you, Dead Hard!)
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I don’t know if it’s overpowered on Artist or not, it’s certainly a good perk for her though no doubt!
Hypothetically if the data backs up the Artist plus DMS combo being too powerful the simplest fix is probably to put a range limit on how far away crows can do damage. So maybe crows can only do damage out to 30 meters, beyond that they stick and give an aura but can’t damage people. It still gives useful info on a hit but super long range snipes are impossible which negates that “broken” ability to force survivors who are across the map off a gen without actually heading closer to them.
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“What’s with all the explosions?!” - Killer with Spies from the Shadows
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It’s all a playstyle thing. Personally the most I do is level up a new killer to 40 to unlock their teachables. After that I just play with what I have and prestige if I hit 50 to shake things up.
I want to say it takes about 1 million exp to bring a killer from 1 to 40? I could be off on that (something like averaging around 20k per bloodweb with earlier ones being cheaper)
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@jarjargist21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789068#Comment_2789068
Sadly I wasn't recording
Don’t feel bad, most people don’t, including me. Unless you’re streaming I’m not sure why you’d bother recording your games.
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@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789109#Comment_2789109
That's true. Still tho there's some problem which has to be faced in order to provide a premium game.
Oh sure, there’s always going to be something to fix or improve. I have my personal list of things I’d like to see. But overall the game is in good shape, probably actually the best shape since release even. They resolved many of the infinite loops, rebalanced a lot of killers and survivor perks, have a ton of new characters and maps since release and made a lot of good tweaks to the graphics and interface. People complain about MMR but actually MMR does produce close matches more often than the emblem system did for most people who aren’t in the outlier high end or low end of the ratings. Cheating is an issue at the high end but that’s true in most multiplayer action games (Overwatch for instance at one point banned 20% of its top 500 players for cheating if I remember right.)
So yeah, room for improvement, but generally speaking the game is good.
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It’s mainly just regression to the mean. Keep in mind DbD is 6 years old at this point, I think it might still be the most played game on the charts from that year? (Stardew Valley and Dark Souls III are like 20-30k players average, DbD is 40k). DbD’s numbers go up when new dlc releases then retract toward that mean of around 40k currently.
So it’s still doing extremely well for a 6 year old game.
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- I’m a terrible shot, Huntress and Deathslinger are easily my worst characters aside from Nurse who I actively don’t play. (Trickster is a little more forgiving.)
- I still get juked all the time. I’ve gotten a bit better more recently at knowing when to not just hold forward as someone is about to juke so I can track them but good dodgers still give me trouble.
- I can’t be bothered trying to memorize optimal pathing on tiles so I’m sure I run a bunch of them incorrectly. If I’m running the shack in the wrong direction it’s pretty bad against a survivor who knows how to run it correctly
- I’m positive I have a blind spot for people in bushes. I literally can be actively staring at them and not see them. Sometimes I’ll swing into a bush on pure instinct and get a hit and be like “oh, ok, so they were there, still don’t see them though.”
- I don’t have the patience to play enough games to get to Iri grades. I do a mission a night, maybe an extra game or two, that’s about it. I’m sure if I played a lot more games I’d do it but once you get into the high silver and gold ranks it starts taking longer since it needs a couple more pips and you tend to only get 1 pip on a 3 kill. (And I don’t care enough about pips to slug the third person all night just to increase my chances of getting a 4 kill. I just hook the third and if the last person beats me to hatch good for them.)
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You are correct, in patch 5.4.0 it mentions fixing a bug that says chains are not supposed to automatically attack you while solving the box
- Fixed an issue that may cause survivors to be attacked by the Chain Hunt while they are solving the Lament Configuration.
If you have a video of it you might want to submit a bug report.
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I agree Flashlights are not great items generally speaking, at least compared to tools and medkits.
Thinking about it, Maps also aren't used much. What if Flashlights were given a secondary function that maps have - highlighting nearby things? So if you use a flashlight in a direction if there's an interesting prop in its range it highlights it for you. Then maps could be removed entirely or revamped into something new. I think if the object-finding ability of flashlights was good enough, but not TOO good, then that combined with the current ability to get saves on people would make the items be more on par with tools and medkits.
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I'm a killer main, I have a lot of fun, but I don't consider the game "relaxing" as in just leaning back and not really paying attention to what I'm doing or whatever. It's an action oriented competitive game, it's a little stressful but in a good way.
For comparison, No Man's Sky is one of my most played games. That's a relaxing game. I can just walk around, do whatever I want, take a sec to think about where I want to go, nothing really threatens me. Or I also play American Truck Simulator, listening to the radio and just kind of driving around. Those are relaxing games.
So no, Dead By Daylight is fun but it's not relaxing, at least to me.
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Otz has one that seems to true almost every time:
If the survivors used a map offering, and one ragequits after you down them, it was the person who picked the map.
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Just FYI the devs confirmed in their last dev chat that they are actively still working on something to reduce literal face camping. Basically while it's not cheating or unsportsmanlike it's simply a dull sort of experience for both the killer doing the face camping and the survivor on the hook so they do want to find a way to make it something that happens less. The issue for them so far has been the things they've tried internally either weren't effective or created its own serious problems.
They haven't given any details but did say in the January chat that they have an internal prototype they're testing that looked promising but is still in early development. So it could be anything, who knows? 🤷♂️
One interesting suggestion I've heard was to leverage the way Pyramid Head's Cages work for hooks. So when you hook someone the hooks is dragged into the ground by the Entity and reappears elsewhere. It sounds cool thematically and would certainly reduce facecamping but the details on it are where it seems like it would be a little sketchy. For instance, what happens with basement hooks? Is the basement just totally worthless in this system? Also this would take away a lot of killer agency over where precisely they want a survivor to be hooked to, for instance, force the survivors to run a long distance to get a rescue. On the flip side this system could have some neat interactions with Scourge Hooks since it would effectively shuffle the Scourge Hook around to a new location every time it's used which might be kind of fun. So the idea might have some potential but definitely requires polishing to be good.
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787713#Comment_2787713
I wasn't trying to word for word it. Despite the paraphrasing, the point is right.
OoO was brought up in a question, almo referenced it not performing well and acted as if he was oblivious to the problem. That clip trended, then it was nerfed. It was reactionary not proactively based on stats.
I know what trended and as usual people didn’t actually listen to what was said and just made their own assumptions and passed it around as gospel. They didn’t say in that clip they weren’t going to do anything or not do anything. People then assumed that when later on a change came down the pike it was a reaction to forum posts when it was something they already clearly were gathering info on.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787794#Comment_2787794
I gotcha man.
As a Clown main the yellow bottles are excellent for closing in distances during chases. You can also use them in loops along with the tonic. It's a useful chase utility that people sleep on, you just need to know when and how to use it.
I should prob make a compilation of the stuff you could do with that thing.
Right. Like for instance, I see a survivor at long distance. I could throw a pin gas cloud and probably miss, or I could throw a yellow cloud and walk into it on the way to the survivor and get the same net catchup.
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@BirdSpirit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787632#Comment_2787632
Yeah I was also concerned about the stagger, but I honestly don't think it will be changed.
I’m fine with that, the stagger makes me miss a few hooks but I don’t think it’s broken.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787740#Comment_2787740
What buffs did his base kit and add ons get that made any significant difference to elevate him from his previous state?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787767#Comment_2787767
I'll take your word for it but I've yet to see a Clown who's discovered how to utilize them in any meaningful way. The only time I've seen a Clown get any value from those bottles was when they use them to patrol exit gates at end game, and to speed boost themselves to a hook that's far away when picking up a survivor.
I’ll leave it to Clown mains to say how much they do or don’t use the yellow gas.
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@Nathan13 said:
Third seal
Third Seal is unusual because it’s particularly dependent on whether you’re against solos or swf players. Solo players who can’t see where other survivors are slugged or hooked can find it more problematic than survivors on comms saying where they are. Third Seal is also unusual because its effect makes it slightly harder for survivors to find using aura perks.
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Blood Favor is actually decent since it got buffed, I’ve gotten a lot of free hits from it.
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I’ve never dodged a lobby
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Definitely Freddy. They turned him into a miserable bore of a killer.
Not a fan of Clown's either. Those yellow bottles are just a gimmick.
Actually the yellow bottles are kind of useful if you use them right. Basically they give you the same boost in speed that the pink gas slows down the survivor. So if you can toss a yellow right at the start of a chase and go through it yourself it’s as if you hit the survivor with a pink bottle without actually having to have the survivor go through the gas. Then if you hit them with a slowdown gas while you’re sped up it’s a huge speed difference.
It also works on pallet loops. Toss a yellow bottle across the pallet where the survivor is and head towards them. Drop a pink where you were, and if the survivor tries to loop it you’ll get a speed up and they’ll get a slow down which is typically enough to get the hit in before they can vault.
The only thing about the yellow bottles is they’re kind of useless mid footchase when you’re too close to have the gas speed you up. So if a chase starts within say 15 meters you may as well stick to the slowdown.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787699#Comment_2787699
I never lost any hook against this perk. And actually i didn't see this perk before so much. Maybe max 100 times but i doubt it. From 2018 to today, 4 years. And this perk will not change. Still on deadzone.
Well yeah, prior to the buff it was hot garbage. The new stagger is pretty crazy though.
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787517#Comment_2787517
This^^^ Thank you! Of course the lead designer said they're keeping an eye on it... Can't act entirely oblivious in a live QA.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787589#Comment_2787589
So yes it was explicitly said by a head developer which caused so much backlash on the forums that it was LITERALLY the only topic for weeks.
I was actually playing then. Don't tell me I don't know what and how it went 😂
And I actually looked it up and they didn’t say what you think you remember them saying.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787639#Comment_2787639
because killers always drop when they catch you, they don’t wait 5-10 secs so you could use the perk. And also they would know you have it. I can ensure you’ve you won’t see 1 boil over in the entire year if not used for adept
I’m a killer main, I’ve personally lost hooks to the stagger on Boil Over. (Falling from a height hasn’t impacted me, the stagger has though.) But hey, if survivors don’t use it that’s fine by me! 😄
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787639#Comment_2787639
How many times you saw this perk before new version? SWF abused this perk and now after this nerf, even they will not use (This is good change). But problem is, perk is still garbage. And if you are thinking this perk will be common, i would disagree with you. I don't think i will see this perk except Adept Kate gamers.
I don’t know how common or uncommon it will be, but I can say as a killer main I’ve lost hooks to the stagger on it so it’s not “garbage”.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
2 months before this, RPD was still a commonly used SWF map because of OP boon totems. This only changes things slightly :(
They also just this minute announced a change on Boil Over. Now if you drop from a height the survivor gets 33% of their CURRENT wiggle, versus 25% of the entire bar. So if you pick a survivor up and immediately fall off a ledge they get almost no benefit, but if you fall off something when you’re almost to the hook then they’ll probably pop free.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2787620#Comment_2787620
And this makes perk garbage. This perk was dead already and seem like it will stay dead forever.
How is the perk dead? I know I’ve personally lost a few hooks to the increased stagger.
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Hmm, interesting change. Makes it so it you immediately do a drop right after picking a survivor up they get very little boost, but if you make a drop most of the way to a hook it could easily bump them free.
I’m curious to see how this pans out. Personally the height thing never came up in my own games, the increased stagger though has cost me a few hooks.