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caipt
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@Krazzik said:
I guess it does remove facecamping outside endgame as a strategy but doing that is a terrible idea anyway and will usually make you lose. They're not removing it because it's OP, it's not, they're removing it because it's unfun for the survivors.
I know that, I dont really ever camp outside endgame anyways. I'm just done with BHVR removing mechanics and strategies by force instead of fixing actual game design problems.
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@Chaosrider said:
Killers still defending "strategies" in 2023 ... dbd in a nutshell.
whats that I hear? someone who didnt even understand the post commenting? who could have guessed. I never defended camping, in fact I said I LIKED that the change was implemented even if I find the implementation half baked. Maybe you could.... oh, I don't know, understand the post before you comment.
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IfI'm tunneling on purpose then I'm killing them. but If their just death hook and giving up, then I slug them until they learn their lesson.
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Blights balanced and so is hug tech, but his addons do need a good gutting.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544909#Comment_3544909
Being able to win 1500 games in a row once you reach a certain skill level is not fine. There is no other game on the planet where the community would attempt to defend this. He absolutely needs and should get basekit changes.
its 1 player who is probably the best blight in the world tunneling every match with the most broken addons. I'm a mid blight and I'm on a 22 winstreak by abusing alch crow. its really just the addons.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
I don't get it, even a skull merchant got rework faster than anything being done to Blight.. Yes skull merchant is broken but Blight has been broken killer for years overshadowed by Nurse.
at least blight and nurse have counterplay, exlcuding certain addons. SM just... made the game take... f o r e v e r ...
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@Cool_Dude72 said:
I'm just curious why you all play into the survivors game of ring around the rosies.
Every single killer has to deal with looping. Chase killers, ironically, make it much more fun and easier. why would I play sadako or trapper when blight is right there?
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signal boost, gotta fix xeno
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Xeno wasn't even op, he was bugged. theres a ley difference there. Instead of just fixing his bugs, they fixed the bugs and nerfed him. they didnt even let him preform as intended on live before deciding it was too much.
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@Pulsar said:
Oh no! How awful! They fixed a bug that was making a Killer perform incorrectly, how will you ever survive?
The problem is that they fixed the bug but also nerfed his speed after a miss. Didnt even let him preform as intended before deciding he needed a nerf.
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skill issue, use turrets and learn to mindgame
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Nurse because fast fast fast gotta step on the gas
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It insane. I have 2k hours mostly on killer, but I do play survivor sometimes. I'm never matched with newbies on killer but on survivor imconstantly playing with baby killers and survivors. I mean I'm not the best survivor out there but theres no way im equal in skill to the meg with yellow sprint burst.
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The ultimate skill issue: I cant beat [blank] so it should be REMOVED!
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@CatnipLove said:
I wonder how much impact it will have on juking. Hopefully it doesn't make all up close shenanigans obsolete. It will just make looping more boring.
eh 360s dont work against experienced killers to begin with.
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it'd be nice QoL but gamesense gets me by just fine
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@Tzeff_NL_YOUTUBE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537229#Comment_3537229
Once again: Watch this scene - https://youtu.be/IEGQfrpnjWk?t=36
Everything that can and will make the velociraptor a scary DBD Killer is there: Hearing the heavy thumping feet and the breathing/snarling sounds it makes while you sneak around, hoping its Smell Perk is on cool-down! And this "big goofy lizard" is a killing machine that doesn't use it's "teensy lil arms" but it's huge and deadly teeth (and clawed hindlegs during memento mori) to down survivors!
none of that changes the fact that its a big goofy lizard
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@connordeekelly said:
Hit it out the park with this one. BHVR doesn't care if survivors are majorly impacted - they only care about their cry baby killers.
seriously? How do you even come to this conclusion. Not only is it just factually incorrect by looking at patch notes in the past year, but it wouldnt even make any sense from a business standpoint. Why would bhvr favor killer players when survivors out number them? they get so much more money off their feng min playerbase than every killer combined. also, they have killswitched things on the killer side numerous times. Remember when wesker was disalble for almost a month? They killswitched the most popular killer in the game because of a bug that broke the game for survivors, and just barely got him back by the anniversary. Or the time they killswitched clown because of his infinite wallhacks bug, or when they killswitched nurse.
Merciless storm was not a gamebreaking bug, as in it didn't completely remove any chance of winning or regular play. it was stupid broken and all but it just made the game take longer. The locker bug, by clicking 2 buttons and walking forward, would let you hold the game hostage for the full 2 hours, infinite dodge hits, safely self care and res teammates, then run away with buckle up or SB if you felt like it. ah yes, infinite hostage holding is definitely equivalent to 90% instant regression.
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rework hatch, its the reason people due this to begin with
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@Evan_ said:
A fellow on reddit claimed that he opened 30 chests since the kill-switch, and didn't find a single flashlight. That makes me assume beamers don't spawn. Can anybody refute this theory?
If not, I'll smile a bit while thinking of the aspiring exploiters pillaging all the chests instead of doing gens or similar beneficial actions.
this tracks. I open chests to get my items bc i hate bringing them into the trial, and not one in all my games gave a beamer. lets keep saying that it does though so the exploiters waste time on chests instead of gens hehehe
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had one guy abusing this with his duo all game, stole all my pressure and snowballing every single time I'd down someone. then in egc they pretended it was fine because... they let me kill them??
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539375#Comment_3539375
The devs haven't changed blight since nearly release, so i guess he is fine too?
he is one of the best designed killers in the game
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539135#Comment_3539135
I suppose comp killers are all weak seeing as tunneling is the primary strategy (and they often barely get a few kills).
In all fairness, at the very highest level of skill with full meta loadouts with a coordinated and professional SWF, the game is very survivor sided. But thats realistically only at the extreme level.
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@JudithMorel said:
welcome to killer sided by daylight.
ah yes hitboxes the pinnacle of dbd's lack of balance and complete favoring of the killer playerbase
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Atm, female survivor vaults are bugged to be the speed of medium vaults even though they appear as fast vaults. Furthmore the survivor hitbox is not perfectly aligned with the model, lagging behind slightly. While injured, the survivor is hunched over, making the hitbox desync with the model even further. Combine this with ping and you get some nonsense. DBD should sync the model with the hitbox, in a way that doesnt actually effect how the hits are calculated. That way the hits still land as they always did, they just actually look fair.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539333#Comment_3539333
Nowhere do I say that skull merchant players should be banned in a blanket sense.
But if you're intentionally, repeatedly holding 3 gens for an excessive period of time in matches, without trying to chase or down survivors...that is confirmed to be holding the game hostage. And those players should be banned.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/521124#Comment_521124
So, like that 'chess player' who went up against team eternal.
Thats not right. Holding the game hostage refers strictly to situations where on side's agency is completely removed, and has an absolutel 0% chance of the match ending without a dc or the 2h shutdown. Holding a 3 gen is not that. There is, if small, the possibility to win there. The killer isnt moving the gens out of bounds, they are defending them. Its a flaw in game design, not a hostage situation. SM's shouldnt be banned for doing it no matter how annoying because sadly for SM thats just optimal play.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538884#Comment_3538884
flaws in security does not make crimes okay.
false equivalency. A crime is breaking the rules, a bug is a literal break in the universal code. if crime could be fixed entirely by completely remaking our policing systems or something, and it was clear how and would just take time, the public would be outraged that they arent doing it. Furthermore there are far different motivations for crimes vs exploits. Robberies are caused by greed or absolute necessity, which im assuming you are talking about since you mentioned security. Exploits are abused by people wanting a power trip for some fun in a videogame.
Besides nobody is saying abusing the exploit is okay... their just saying bhvr its bhvr's fault the game is sphageti'd enough to allow these exploits to even exist.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537344#Comment_3537344
that is kinda of issue. your not suppose to be doing anything else during gen-blocking otherwise it becomes ineffective effect. also the incap and blocking effects are not suppose to be instant win. their objective is to slow game down by x amount. they may aid in the win but they're not 100% guaranteed to win.
a buff that could be good for eruption is removing cooldown from 30->0 similar to jolt. adding 10 second incap instead of aura reading could also be additional buff in 3 meter area when the gen explodes. incap is another one of those controversial effects.
I disagree. The point of genblocking to stop that one specific gen from progress for a set time, so its always a valuable effect since it will always prevent progression. Thats why deadlock is good, it doesnt matter if the survivors go to a different gen because that gen isnt going off.
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@dbdthegame said:
Pocket 10% gen regression PLUS aura read isn't enough? Eruption is one of the top 3 current gen regression perk along with Pain Res and Pop. Leave it alone.
the aura is useless unless you are slugging because the survivors will just stick the gen that got exploded. Speaking of which, the scream already tells you where they are. it gives you info that just barely gives you more than its other effect, that you will only get value from by leaving your downed survivor to go pressure a gen instead of getting a hook.
I'd say its top 3. but only because everything else has been so brutally obliterated. its a garbage perk thats only worth running because theres not a better option beyond the clear top 2. Its like if smash hit was the only exhaustion perk, it would be the best exhaustion perk because there arent any alternatives.
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I'd say hatch is relatively surv sided unless you are on blight. the 15% speed advantage doesnt really matter unless the hatch is equidistant from both of you. And since the survivor insta escapes on finding it and you just trigger egc, you are still susceptible to terrible rng on gates while they would just escape. And even if you find them, they can still easily get hatch while in chase while you would need to leave chase and go back to patrolling. Most killers have no mobility and thus cant patrol gates efficiently, relying solely on map rng to give them decent spawns. Essentially, hatch is decided by luck, whatever map you are on, and if you are blight or wesker. Which for the most part are things out of your control. part of me wishes when I closed hatch, the survivor would just die since they just escape automatically anyway.
but on the flip side bringing nwo on blight is straight up a free 4k if you already killed three. in all fairness its RNG based for the survivor too, so nobody gets to skillfully get the last laugh for the most part.
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@RaSavage42 said:
I mean how is it not skillful to not kick Gens?
Also Eruption wasn't used when it had 16 seconds so they buffed it to 25 seconds and it became OP
So why not give it 10 seconds of Incap. and be done with it
Blocking Gens takes away regression... so you would get the 10% but nothing else
- It depends on the situation, it can be braindead for either option. theres skill in the decision making based on the situation, ex choosing to kick the gen and apply eruption instead of immediately chasing the survivor because you feel you dont need to commit right now and applying it is a better move for later.
- I know, thats what I was saying in the post. i could have worded it better to be more clear.
- Mostly because incap is an unhealthy status effect, but also because 10s wouldnt be enough. It was below average back when it was ~15s of incap. I feel like gen block is the most healthy form of slowdown, becuase its temporary and you can go do something else while its happening.
- fine with me. 10% is about 9 seconds, so thats at least like 30s of time lost of that gen.
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@Venusa said:
Kicking a gen and downing a survivor is skilled play?
when did downing somebody stop being considered skilled? while the kick itself might be unskilled at least its a tradeoff, you lose distance on the person repairing it in exchange for applying eruption. it takes 1.8s, giving the survivor 7.2m of distace. 7.2/0.6=12 seconds to regain the distance you just gave them, allowing them to cover 48 more meters of ground before you reach them. Its more of a tradeoff than people realize, and only a few killers can regain that distance quickly to counteract it.
at least it requires setup, if we're going to say downing someone isnt skilled we should be complaining about pain res or pgtw, not eruption.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537177#Comment_3537177
Has been confirmed by the devs in the bug reporting section, that is not a bug, and is working as intended.
Basically the issues with UW are it is exceptionally easy to trigger, has no condition, and provides a lot of value for little effort with no counterplay outside if Calm Spirit: -
- It trivialises hex totem defence, so can make it obnoxiously hard to disable an important totem.
- It is extremely effective on fast mobile killers like Nurse, Blight, Wesker, etc, making it very easy to find and stick to players. They can proc it very easily with little effort, and these killers tend to be the ones that are pretty hard to lose already.
- Removes all possibilities of stealth from survivors, so allows easy control of objectives. A survivor has to go all the around your invisible bubble in an opposing direction to make it back to the gen you just kicked.
- Those same killers that are renowned for being exceptionally good in chase, now can completely remove the possibility of staying hidden as a means of avoiding these killers strong chase power.
Compare this to the other scream perks like Hex: Face the Darkness, or Infectious Fright. Can't be triggered on command, requires the killer to find a survivor and successfully land a hit/down, Hex has the possibility of being cleansed... UW is a far better scream perk.
How about against similar tracking perks? Whispers? Spies? Darkness Revealed? That's a no contest. The only advantage is Survivors know you've heard them scream, but because it's in your terror radius, you're able to capitalise anyway if you have a working pair eyes and a functioning brain.
UW is far more reliable and easy to capitalise on, and is basically a guaranteed method of forcing survivors to leave an area you want to control.
So it's similar to MFT really. No effort, has far reaching effects, and lots of value of the course of the entire game, plenty of players leaping to its defence, and if it isn't OP it is still very annoying for the opposing side regardless.
while I agree with all your points I'd like to note that nurse has the worst map mobility in the game on outdoor maps, and thus shouldnt be factored into this debate. She benefits from ultimate weapon as much as a regular m1 killer when it comes to patrolling.. When you do the math with her fatigue, post blink window, blink duration, blink charge, and blink cooldown it rounds out to about 4.1m/s in effect. UW also doesnt really help her start a chase as well as people think. Since its a scream and not an aura, its not exact and so theres a lot of guesswork to do when blinking over and a good survivor can force the second blink there. Shes exceptionally good at covering short range distances, but long range is where she really struggles which is why playing for distance is so strong vs her.
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the velociraptor would be out of place in dbd. its a big goofy lizard with teensy lil arms
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crows are inconsistently spaced. there could be two survivors in range and 0 crows going off. And on specific maps crows are almost nonexistant. Coldwind for example has almost no crows in the corn, indoor map crows are sparce. Also, when a survivor in your TR feels that moving around would result in them being seen or leave scratch marks etc etc, they'll place stealth when they feel threatened as you are nearby. its information is also not exact and doesnt show how many survivors triggered that crow or which ones etc. Thus, not triggering crows until your are out of range. Ultimate weapon has none of these weaknesses. it relies solely on your TR and nothing on the map, making it 100% reliable. if someone is in range, you are guaranteed to know (even in a locker). Which also negates the stealth that counters spies from the shadows, because it doesnt need them to move around or do anything to reveal them. ultimate weapon is 100% accurate in its information, showing you exact locations and number of survs. an experienced player can even differentiate the screams to know whos there. A tunneler can use this information to see if its their target, someone keeping track of skill and perks can use it to decide whether committing to that chase is a good idea. It also has that 30s uptime, so even if theres nobody you want to chase in range or nobody at all you can move a total of around 150m across the map to find people. it also applies blindness, which can hurt solos a lot. Even worse though is that since it applies blindness, when you find someone you want to commit to their WoO will be deactivated giving them a dead perk for the next 30s and you an edge. granted, it has its 30s cooldown, but since yu will be using it to find and chase survivors that 30s is effectively meaningless since it will go away while you are chasing them giving it a near 100% uptime. On a map like midwich, you can permanently apply blindness to all survivors by spamming UW. it also interrupts actions like totems and heals, so it can be very powerful for patrolling your totems and regressing healing massively with sloppy.
Sidenote: Since its tied to TR, a wesker can run UW and get some insane value. I've seen anti heal weskers use distressing, sloppy, caulrophobia and ultimate weapon to run around and prevent healing for the whole game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536862#Comment_3536862
The 20% number is just bullshit. It's just a way to make a pitiful 3% increase sounds scary so it gets nerfed.
In order for this to actually be a valid number, the killer has to deliberately get rid of bloodlust on cooldown *and* never use their power, ever.
You can not break chase with MfT unless the killer is playing the game with their monitor turned off or the survivor is vastly outplaying the killer.
Either way it's a gigantic skill issue, not a perk issue.
Edit: spelling.
How is 3% pitiful? Its not about the absolute value, its about the difference between the killer and survivor speed. Which on average is 15%. So... 3/15=1/5=20%. It might not increase chasetime by 20% in a literal sense, but mathematically speaking it does take 20% longer to reach you. Which is especially important on tight pallet loops where any non nurse/blight/spirit killer effectively plays as an m1 killer. Every killer except a select few has loops where their power is useless, and on those loops they play as an m1 killer. On your typical pallet loop, wesker cant dash, demo cant shred, billy cant saw the list goes on. and its not like the survivor needs to earn this effect, its guaranteed to happen during the second half of chase.
Thats true, the 20% number is really only perfectly accurate for m1 killers. But as I mentioned, all but the top 3 killers have certain loops where their power is just not usuable, therefore making that loop last 20% longer. I cant count the times I've been able to juice the killer out of 3 or even 4 more loops because of MFT giving me that extra time I needed. And thats at basic pallet loops where you just run in a circle, not the skilled kind of loops where theres actual mindgames and stuff involved. I simply equipped MFT and ran in a circle. Granted skilled players will dominated with MFT far more than unskilled ones, but that doesnt justify how just equpping the perk gives so much value.
List of things equpping mft gives to you for free:
- After being hit, the killer will take 7 more seconds to reach you with MFT, 18 as a 110% by walking. At least 30% of the roster is m1 killers, or killers with no method of gaining distance or enough range to ignore it. I.E. nemesis. A very strong anti loop power, but he will still need to just walk to catch up to you. meaning in those 7 seconds, you can cover and extra 28m (75m against 110%) of ground just because you equipped MFT. look at a survivor without MFT and where they went down. if theres a pallet or window within 32m, then mft would have saved them. This principle applies to anywhere and any situation where a survivor goes down. You can just take the distance between the killer and them at the start of the chase, divide it by movement speed, increase by 20%, and see if theres a tile in that distance. Just from equipping it.
- some of the strongest chase extension just from equipping it
- Causes every killer power to be far more punishing than intended
- safety on pickups on an already very powerful perk
- promotes bad play via hold W being very powerful with mft
thats all I can think of, theres probably more.
MFT isnt meant to help you break chase, it's about extending it. Really only lithe consistently breaks chase against the stronger killers. SB and BL both gain you about 6m of distance since the killer can just keep walking forward. Lithe forces them to go around an object, letting you gain massive distance. If you want that value from SB or BL you need to manage SB perfectly to trigger when they are stunned or need to walk around something, and for BL it needs to be a god pallet with a fall. MFT works the same way, its a chase extender not a chase breaker. And since its so good at extending chase a lot of killers will drop chase if they know you have mft, but since they arent told its just a guessing game.
in conclusion is not a skill issue when you can prove with math that just by equipping the perk as an average player you autmoatically get much longer chases, an improved on hit burst, extra punsihment on killer powers, and on certain loops 20% more go arounds.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535609#Comment_3535609
Two thing
First one, If you read what I say before, I compare haste perk from survivor and killer, and gen speed perk with gen regression perk
I don't compare haste effect with gen regression, I was just saying IF we delete the stackable effect from perks for survivor, we need to do it for killer, it's pretty simple no?
Second, so, if I understand your logic, helping other teammate is not skilled? Like healing, doing gen or trying to survive, is not skilled? And even if it was not what you wanted to say
You take example from scourge hook and Pop, but, Ruin, deadlock, call of brine, overcharge... All these are also gen regression, and in the same way than pop and scourge, in term of popularity and powerness, and for some, you just need to kick, the other, just being a scarecrow or loosing a gen, all regression perks doesn't reward "skill" from the killer and to say that they are not powerful would be to play the ostrich
I take machine learning as example because it's the same "excuse" about MFT : "it reward bad play"
technically, machine learning reward bad play, you loose a gen
And for Food, technically, you have two possibility to regen quicky your token or not losing it, infinte tombstone myers doens't lose tokens, and if you play with game afoot or Nemesis, you have a way to regain quickly new token for play with your food, and probably more technic or combo perks (I think with furtive chase, never try, but I may be wrong here)
And, not all killer can be powerfull with stackable haste, but it exist, it's not well know, actually, but, for my first example, Hag, with her recent buff, who can run at 4.73 m/s with the waterlog shoes, and you take some haste perks like play with your food, game afoot or wathever, and she are just one of the fastest killer in the game, or, IF PEOPLE TRY TO LEARN HER... Skull merchant,she got lot of add-on who boost her speed, great for chase, where she can run at 4.7 m/s and it last 15 secondes after leaving the drone, and it goe's with my second point, her, and a lot of other killer, have add-on who make hindered for some times, the artist, skull merchant, Nemesis, Wesker got one basekit, blight, hag, etc etc
But for the example of skull, she can run at 4.7 m/s when survivor run at 3.8 m/s
- You might not have directly compared them but saying that if one should be removed so should the other is by nature a comparison. It's only simple logic at a surface level. just because one type of stacking effects should be removed doent mean they all should. They do different things and should be evaluated separately. I would argue haste stacking and overbrine stacking should go, that way other haste perks can be buffed while we can make CoB and overcharge usuable again without breaking the game.
- Yeah that is what im saying. It doesnt take skill to heal a teammate or do a gen. Theres skill involved knowing when its a good idea or not, but that doesnt change that a baby survivor on their first game can heal a teammate or sit on a gen. I wasnt saying teamwork is unskilled I was saying that healing, which is the only activation requirement for 12% haste, is unskilled. Anybody witht hat perk setup and a friend on call can follow the simple instructions and have a 3% speed disadvantage permanently. Not that it matters if you have mft or dark theory too. Theres very little to no skill involved in gaining that speed.
- Ruin, CoB, and OC are nowhere near power and popularity to pain res and pgtw. I would actually argue that ruin, CoB, and OC do actually reward skill on killer, especially ruin. Deadlock is really the only meta killer perk you can call completely unearned. Ruin rewards the killer for playing well and needs skill for value. A hook gets someone off a gen, it regresses. Hitting someone forces them to heal and be off a gen. Getting good value requires skillfully pressuring the map. Even then it was a hex, so you needed to dedicate undying to consistency. meaning that in the ruin meta you dedicated half your perk slots to one perk, which forces you to play well. CoB and OC have the same principle. CoB was just ruin but manual and not a hex. Kicking the gen might be braindead but keeping it regressing was skilled. Like ruin, you needed to pressure that area effectively for value. And it needed to be that area since no other gen had CoB, so if you didnt have major pressure you would need to spend extra time keeping them off that gen. Same goes for OC, moreso since it needs to ramp up. The broken unskilled part was the stacking that completely mitigated any skill required. It didnt matter if you left the gen because it would regress at 300% so you win by default. On their own however, they do need skill for good value. Activation is unearned, but value is. Deadlock is the only meta killer perk someone could realistically call unskilled, since somebody afk would get deadlock value.
- They both reward ad play but at least machine learning requires setup. If it just gave you 10% haste for 30s whenever any gen popped it'd be a clearly equivalency, but you do actually need to kick the gen. But its counte intuitive since for value you need to be losing the game. it'd be like if MFT gave you 3% speed for every dead teammate. its not gonna do anything... your teammates are dead. at best you get hatch. You might maybe get one or two downs off machine learning if you are lucky. Any more than that and odds are you are losing the game anyway. MFT isnt like that, being injured isnt a clear sign you will lose its a natural part of chase and gameplay. It gives that kind of power without the conditions.
- Building three tokens takes 30s at minimum, tombstone is a separate issue unrelated to PWYF, its just unfortunate that they have synergy. Im not seeing how nemmy has synergy with pwyf any more than other killers. Using game afoot with PWYF is a borderline meme build with 0 meta all for one perk. Compare these specific scenarios and conditions required to MFT activating unconditionally throughout a match.
- Waterlogged shoe's 2.5% guts your power and is somehow still less speed than MFT for such a high cost. Skull merchants haste is 2% for one drone being hacked and has a very limited time frame and is out of your control whether it happens in chase or not. Even if haste stacking exists on killer its still far less powerful than it is on survivor. To get that 17% speed boost frome the haste stacking build that just requires a friend with ftp for consistency, the killer needs max pwyf stacks+noed,or 2 pwf stacks+machine learning, or a waterlogged shoe with max pwyf stacks. pwyf is the best killer haste perk (not that its a high bar) , and you need to farm it yourself over a minimum of 30s and lose tokens for swinging. You will lose 2 stacks per chase win typically, so you'll need to go and farm those gain, meaning to you need to go find the obsession and farm or just keep playing without tokens until you run into them. All killer haste is heavily limited or has crazy drawbacks, and almost no killer haste is permanent. All that effort will still land you less haste than the permahaste build on survivor. That said, killer haste stacking is a problem because it makes it very hard to introduce more haste perks. That goes for both sides, it just happens that haste stacking is an actual balance issue now thanks to mft. should go for everyone.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535609#Comment_3535609
Since you brought up noed, what skilled play has the killer to do to get that effect, since you demand strong effects should be earned?
The killer doesnt earn noed, but thats mitigated by the survivors being able to remove it. Its an unhealthy and dumb perk but at least in most situations a smart team will only let you get 1-2 downs before they cleanse. MFT is 1% less than noed, is active all game, and cant be removed. Im not saying that to compare their strength im just saying thats stupid. Such a powerful effect should not be free and infinite with near 0 limits. Thats why every other permahaste perk has strict limits on it. Dark theory is 2%, yet you need to set up a boon, be chased in that boon aka take killer to the boon for value, hope its in a spot with a good gym and not just limited pallets, then go boon it again giving massive slowdown when the killer inevitable snuffs it. Its a potentially balanced version of MFT, high reward for high investment (with buffs, maybe a 4-5%). Right now MFT is like survivor noed. Its unearned, does way to much for being unearned, rewards and promotes bad play via hold W, has no warning or counterplay, and is overall dumb. Noed is equally stupid but at least its only active in endgame and can get removed, mft just gives you longer chases all game by virtue of equipping it.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
Yes, Nurse is broken. I feel like if she has 1 blink tops, she would be fair. If you ignore walls, pallets and windows, then at least be skillful enough to compensate.
Also, it's not absolutely true that she's hard to master. For some people, yes. But I've seen people who've become insanely good with her in less than a week of practice.
1 blink Nurse basekit might just be the thing to make her balanced.
i see where you are coming from but 1 blink nurse would be unplayable. any competent survivor will force the LOS blink, forcing a chain blink. giving her 1 blink would just mean she is incapable of hitting survivors without auras, and even then it could be difficult in some cases.
they should bring back stun-fatigue for sure, maybe increase fatigue and bring back lightburn. they should add more counterplay without directly nerfing her kit.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535473#Comment_3535473
The thing is
I love to play F1 Hag, it's so funny to see survivor just, losing their mind to see a ######### hag rocket running in their directions, so I can understand why survivor play MFT wih hope, but again, they need to get in the endgame for earning it
Soma got three powerfull perks, and, MFT make no sense to have the endurance effect
the second point, I see lot of people saying "it reward bad play" again... Lot of killer perks reward bad play, noed is the most know, but, Hux come with another one, Machine learning, but, it's not the main point
The other thing that I don't understand, is when you compare MFT with Dark Theory
How a perk can give a permanant 3% haste effect when you are injuried, when in the other hand, you got only a 2%, in an delimited area, and only if the boon is up
Sometimes, I wonder if the healing nerfs never happen, if this perks would have been so popular, knowing that a lot of perks from killer punish survivor for healing
... I think, simply, if you want to nerf MFT, you have to delete the endurance effect, and using the old logic of hope; the perks is only active for some times before deactivating and you got exhausted
It gonna be more logic, plus, lot of people gonna be less angry
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535485#Comment_3535485
Calm down, it's not your idea that I pointed out, like the first one say about your idea, giving the haste effect when people are not injuried gonna be more harder to get a hit
It's more like people who want to remove the haste effect and nerfing the endurance effect to less than 10 secondes or get a haste effect during some second after unhooking WHO gonna make MFT a worse perks than some existing
If you want that I quote them, here you go:
Buckle up, SoulGard, Borrowed Times, Bloodpact, Gardian and Power of two
And I was just saying about gen regression perks, you can stack them and make them more powerfull, in the same way that gen speed perks, when you combine them, it can make a gen in... 20/30 secondes when you are alone
If now, we decide that survivor can't have perks who can stack, I don't see why killer can, even if it's asymetrical... a moment, you have to calm down
The difference between haste stacking and regression stacking is that, at least in this meta, regression is earned through skilled plays. pain res and pgtw both need hooks and are the strongest regression perks in the game. Hell even eruption needs a down, not that the reward is proportionate. If you actually needed to earn haste stacking by being skilled it would be a different story. The only combo that has any semblance of skill involved is mft hope, where the survivor does need to earn hope. However just by also equipping mft you are unkillable in endgame. You dont need to earn mft, its active throughout the match too. Its a disproportionate reward compared to the effort and skill required.
Thats just mft hope, all the other haste stacks are braindead. all you need to do it consistently is a buddy with ftp, and for absolutely 0 skill you can permanently move at 112%. Off two perks for 1 heal. And for bonus points if you were injured when you healed your buddy then you just cant be caught. Not to mention for the low low price of 14 seconds of your time you can add an extra 2% into the mix. Its garbage on its own but it allows you to move faster than the killer permanently within range, not that you were getting downed to begin with. Then if one of you has hope you get to move an entire 9% faster than the killer.
Comparing stacking slowdown to stacking haste is a false equivalency. for those 20/30 seconds, i need a hook meaning I had to outplay the survivor and be skilled. Theres a hard limit to how much a pgtw or a pain res can be used too, and they can be avoided by being better than the killer. MFT and haste stacking overall are not skilled or earned, have no counterplay, and its just blatantly not fair to permanently move faster than the killer. Im not gonna argue dark theory is broken, but being able to stack it with mft for a permanent 5% boost isnt fair in any way
I can think of 4 haste perks for killer, machine learning, pwyf, devour hope, and noed. Machine learning has a powerful effect but you need to be losing the game for it to help you, and its not strong enough to clutch. PWYF requires you to build tokens off of a survivor, and you lose them when you swing regardless of if you hit. Devour hope barely even counts and requires a hook. Noed is the only killer haste perk thats strong, and its 4%, a hex, and only works in endgame. MFT is 3% and works all game, for free. Thats not to say noed is bad or shouldnt be a hex or should have its speed buffed or anything like that, its just for comparison. Every single killer speed perk has some activation requirement thats tedious to get or can be completely removed before it does anything. Should they be able to stack? if I'm being fair then no they shouldn't no haste should stack, not that its an issue atm but I digress.
PWYF needs you to find the obsession, leave chase with them, and then you lose the token on a swing for 5%. In practice you will have 1-2 tokens every few chases and lose them getting the down. Its effectively limited because thats how it needs to be to be balanced. A survivor can equip two perks and permanently move 5% faster in a decently large area. They dont need to run around and find the killer and leave chase for a token and then lose it when they get hit, they just have it. A permanent 33% chase extender in an area. That is all it takes.
Removing haste stacking would let bhvr be more free in their perk design as well. Exhaustion timers used to stack, but now they take the largest number. and because of that bhvr can make more exhaustion counters, not that they're any good. The same applies. Theres a reason power of two has a 140 second cooldown +2 more limitations. because if it didnt, then the game would break. that'd still be true if haste stacking were gone and it had no cooldown, but at least then they could adjust it more freely to be a strong perk that isnt bottlenecked by haste stacking. haste stacking was never balanced, mft just brought it to the forefront. at least before you needed to hang around a survivor the whole game so if either of you were chased then it was 2 off gens.
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Fov BARELY affects balance when its shadowborn level. Accessiblity is far more important than survivors sometimes getting seen where they wouldnt before.
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Xeno isnt broken, people just refuse to actually place turrets properly and path for them. Seriously, it can't be that hard to just run towards the white aura. You've got WoO telling you how to get there safely, so just do it instead of malding about how broken this killer is when you arent utilizing the basekit counter to him.
that said turrets could use some small buffs+ tunnel xeno is too good by process of elimination since the unhooked surv doesnt have time to set up turrets and play for them.
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we finally get another shackless map and the complaints are already rolling in...
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535404#Comment_3535404
Don't need to be a genius to see the blatant flaw in his thinking.
Since you're making me explain it to you he stated that MFT is "mathematically" the best exhaustion perk, period. That is false. Any exhaustion perk that has better synergy with players individuals build might be considered the best. And it has nothing to do with mathematics.
Despite all the emo rage posts and hysterics by killer mains I dont see MFT all that often. I dont run it. None of my friends run it consistently as killer mains postulate endlessly about on these forums.
Okay maybe thats true, but in practice MFT will extend chases more than other exhaustion perks for your average player. SB is arguably stronger on a goated player but that same goated player can run MFT and get even more value. Same goes for lower skill levels, your average player using MFT will get more value from it than other exhaustion perks by virtue of existing.
I have no idea what serveers you are on but I know I see at least 2 MFT's in every game. Its rare to see none, I see more MFT's than I do SB nowadays because mft just gets more value for much less effort. Your friends are not an example of the survivor playerbase, just because none of your friend group uses it doesnt mean its not broken.
And even if it isnt broken (which is it) its unhealthy and problematic and badly designed and should get a rework either way. At least lithe needs a vault and has skill in preserving it. at least SB just guarantees the chase starts on equal footing and can maybe save you if you play super well. MFT makes it take 20% to reach you just because you equipped it. It slaughters m1 killers, making it take an extra 8 seconds to reach them after a hit by default allowing them to cover an extra 32m of distance. just for equipping the perk.
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@TerraEsram said:
Lot of your idea are just worst perk than some already existing
Dunno but, if you want so much that perks can't stack, all perks have to be rework, not only haste and for survivor
All gen speed of regression have to lost the stackable effect
All speed perks from survivor or killer have to lost the stackable effect
It's that what you want? Or it's only, again, only one side ?
I'm confused, how is wanting the abillity to move faster than the killer gone somehow favoring killer by default? Or not even faster, just 5% more permanently etc etc?
Not seeing how my ideas are worse versions of anything. Permahaste is already hard to come by, making it unique by default with these few conditions comparatively. And all my suggestions keep mft's identity. To argue my suggestions are just worse versions of other perks is to say that mft is already just a worse version of other perks. My suggestions to mft directly were to make it activate while healthy and not have endurance, or ramp up from 0-3% over time while injured with no endurance. The first one is just mft but punishes bad play and is one perk instead of 2 in one. And the second is just MFT but you need to actually be a good looper to get real value from it, unlike now where thats better but optional.
Side note: What stacking regression effects? Are you talking about overbrine? in year 7? overbrine is useless and the only example of this, theres no need to remove it because its terrible and would be a waste of resources. But if it were year 6 I would absolutely say to remove overbrine stacking. the perks were balanced on their own and only became an issue when used in tandem, therefore they should not synergize.
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@xni6_ said:
i think adding back stun-fatigue would be good for stuns in post blink (i think you suggested this), i think having stuns deplete her charges would also be good (all stuns - head on, ds, pallet, flashlight/pallet save, wiggle off, blast mine, everything), and being able to stun her mid fatigue (rather than her gaining a skull of titanium capable of withstanding the almighty strength of the PALLET)
maybe also blindness while charging a blink since auras completely delete any counterplay from survivors but thats not 100% necessary imo (but it would be nice)
but i dont think shes op in her current state
I agree. I never understood why the devs removed stun-fatigue. Lightburn was at least for general consistency across the the roster, but this was just a bug that was healthy for the game.
nurse losing all her charges on a stun would actually be great. DS would actually do anything at all against her and it would open up more perk variety and strategies. I can see it now... the head on meta.
In a roundabout way I find nurse's use of auras as a healthy part of her kit. It doesnt have much counterplay.... but at the very least its taking a slot for another regression perk. As long as aura perks are equal in power to hard slowdown on her, we dont get 4 slowdown nurses. I like that she doesnt get permablind in your suggestion, just while charging, though. That way she still uses aura perks effectively but there is time to react and change your movement. If it were to be changed this is definitely the best option.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535426#Comment_3535426
Buckle Up only works on picking up slugs. MFT works on healing. Also, MFT shouldn't work on picking up slugs.
I didnt know mft worked on healing. in that case i guess it does have its own role to fill and its own identity.
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@DEMONANCE said:
i think she's unbeatable in pubs a capable nurse is just gonna destroy evey public lobby she's in.
some of them are on a +700 winstreaks she's a killier that's once mastered Survivors' input matters very little.
but then again only a few people in the game really got to that point with nurse and she's an unpopular killer in general so with her best addons nerfed and her m2 being special attack idk if she needs more nerfs.
but i do like your ideas they don't nerf her directly but add some counterplay from the survivor's side.
Thats true, someone whos really mastered nurse will probably 4k almost every game. at least thats a skill diff though, and mastering who takes a crazy amount of time and dedication. Its still surefire loss but its at least a respectable one. If I were to nerf nurse directly I would probably do what I mentioned and maybe make it so she cant tp through floors. maybe.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535421#Comment_3535421
No not removed, stbfl was not adjusted after 6.1 it should be 6 stack max or 4% per stack, sloppy is overkill after healing nerfs with both haemorrhage/mangled, noed was always unhealthy and still is
knock out and franklin... ? yes you can delete them it won't be missed
my bad i misunderstood your point. I thought you were just saying you want them gone, not adjusted for the current meta. I could stand sloppy not effecting self heals or something like that. though I feel stbfl shouldn't be touched since it largely only helps m1 killers, and with the upcoming camping countermeasures stbfl camps witll be meaningless. if anything were to happen to stbfl, it shouldnt activate on basekit bt. that way OTR doesnt get shut down and it doesnt help tunneling.
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@Hanuka5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535410#Comment_3535410
How about -30sec when you are outside of 24m and +30sec when you are inside?
I'm just not really for the idea of decreasing hook timers, mostly because of soloQ. a lot of saves are already close calls when the killers built a lot of pressure since resetting can't be coordinated and the killer can snowball easily in such a situation. decreasing the timer, even as a camping countermeasure, would make those close calls stage progressors or even deaths. I like the core design, but the implementation needs to have a careful balance. Rewarding killers for not camping is a good idea but I dont think faster hook progression is the right move, though I can't think of anything else that wouldnt be either op or be better as a perk. thats why i think its better to just punish the campers while keeping non campers matches the same.
also, if any change of this sort were to be implemented it should disable in endgame.