arcaneGospel
arcaneGospel
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I try to run fun builds, go up against the most obnoxious survivors ever, and immediately return to my dearly beloved Knight w/ three slowdowns.
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I remember thinking this'd make a neat Nemesis change—Or Singularity, copying survivors biodata to improve his body(which is implied by his voicelines anyway).
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I think another perk overhaul would be good, but I almost wonder if it would be a waste. We don't have enough room for perks to expand into, I feel, without trying to take a hacksaw to things so they can be scourge hooks and invocations(hangman's trick here's to you). A new status effect or two might help with that.
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This tome has 83 tiers because two of the tiers—70 and 83 have entire cosmetic sets as a reward. Actually, so does the first tier. Technically it has about 87 tiers' worth of cosmetics.
It's likely they didn't give Trapper's outfit a deep rift version because it would have looked bad in the blue used for the deep rift, though, silver might have been nice.
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On the one hand, it's possible that this is a result of them not knowing what to do with the Unknown, whose lore is intentionally ambiguous and thus a tome might be too much clarification. On the other, it is more likely that this is the result of community feedback that the model of new chapters immediately getting tomes sucks and is bad.
The more first-in last-out tome model resulted in some pretty middling tomes, like those of the Knight or Singularity, which were somewhat confused or dragging. Recently, we saw a tome for Feng Min that was GREAT. Older characters usually get better tomes because the elements of their story that need to be elaborated on have been made clear over time, whereas the FILO model results in tomes that feel redundant or are just bad.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/411703/dbd-gb-size-squish-when
I think you're going to be quite happy today!
The download is going to be bigger than normal as you effectively need to download the whole game again but your file size on PS5 should decrease by around 20GB.
So, this is specific to PS5 and the latest XBox model, right? Is there any work being done to decrease the overall file size on PS4, Xbox One, and PC? Or should we not get our hopes up for that?
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@IamFran said:
Overtuned in fact.
The easiest projectile killer and also having teleports.
Hitting through walls is lame.
You have to stare at him for ages for removing the power, colliding with objects in the proccess unless you are lucky and spawn in a low cluttered map.
I despise him tbh.
In what way are they the easiest? Through-wall shots and rebounds are pretty difficult to hit, and when just using the projectile raw it's probably one of the easiest to dodge from what I've experienced. Huntress, Slinger, and Trickster just need to throw the projectile at survivors, Unknown has to account for the fact direct hits aren't what gives them value and the shot rebounds off the floor once, so they can overshoot easily.
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@kosaba11 said:
It's been said, time and again, but a lot of these killers are just unfun to play against, either because their basic design is overpowered, or perks from other killers make them overpowered. For me, personally, I hate, with a burning passion, playing against Twins, Wraith, Deathslinger, Freddy, Doctor, Blight, Dredge, and Chucky. They are so unbelievably unfun to play against.
That's not to say there aren't killers I've never won against that I don't hate facing - like Oni. I can't seem to survive against him, but he's not particularly unfun for me. And Ghostface, the only killer that has actually jumpscared me. Hardly survive against him, but he's not particularly unfun.
Now, I'm not saying they should be nerfed - though I do think some are over tuned and should be looked at, despite what the community feels. Like Wraith. I know he's considered weak by the community, but he's really not.
Anyway, I made this to ask the community which killers ya'll absolutely hate playing against.
I think the analysis of these killers as overpowered is flawed, though I think the statement makes much more sense if read with the word uninteractive in its place. I mean, you can't say Freddy—a man without a power—and Dredge—a thing without a power on several maps—are overpowered. But not interesting, you could definitely say.
And to that, I think some of these are issues of not playing against them with the right idea—Twins require a more big-picture thought process for counterplay, they are entirely macro-focused after all, or Deathslinger, who largely requires some element of preemptive evasion as opposed to basing it on reaction when he begins to aim—but for killers like Wraith and Doctor, yeah, some of these dudes are lame. I've never liked facing Doc or Wraith, not helped by Wraith players being categorically obnoxious. I also, frankly, despise Spirit, because her only point of interaction is whether or not you can hear her, which is called an accessibility issue, and she's busted as hell to boot.
Something about Trapper bothers me, but I think that's a personal issue. Huntress is extremely agitating to me, because she kind of just, wins vault situations outright if you aren't over it before she even starts to have it in line of sight.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704172#Comment_3704172
You are not doing any multitasking with Knight. You dont control the Guards.
The Knight can apply pressure in two places at once with relative ease, can pressure survivors even after dropping chase, and can break pallets and generators without needing to totally divert himself in such a direction. It's through his guards, but they are an extension of him. That is called multitasking.
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@Bloodwebs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702223#Comment_3702223
#disagree - she's overall the most miserable dbd experience. its an instant k0 myself on hook against her. Give me a blight, bubba, heck even nurse over her anyday.
Well, that's what I'm talking about anyway, really. People refuse to figure out what they're doing against her, so they throw every game and act like it's the killer's fault.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703259#Comment_3703259
Didnt know that there are still people thinking WOO has something to do with gamesense. Sad.
I mean, if it does something else of note, please, elucidate me.
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I think WoO is only that good if you've got no gamesense, yeah. I've got good enough gamesense to not need it—I occasionally find myself in a deadzone and think "man WOO coulda helped here" but only rarely. Now, that is still pretty good, giving someone a floor for how well they an do in chase isn't insignificant, but it isn't gonna give you better potential.
I think Ultimate Weapon has the same issue. I usually already know when someone's nearby, what does them screaming do for me? Most survivors hide so badly that screaming might make them stealthier.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702275#Comment_3702275
Now I suppose it's my turn to be aggressive.
Place drone at loop, Survivor must leave loop and take a hit or die. That's horrific gameplay and that's what 99% of SM's do because it's easy and effective. That's not even mentioning the gens or how toxic seemingly every SM, besides Forum SM's, are.
I don't really care what PB says. He's been a great apologist for years on Twins, and I enjoy his lore videos, but he's flat-out causing more harm with this one, I think.
The only way forward, if the SM club continues to deny she's an issue and decry any attempts to rework her, is to nerf her and let her rot until people's hate dies off. If she mimics Twins patterns, it'll be around 3-4 years before people start to change their opinions.
Sure, such a playstyle does exist, such a strategy probably could use something of a nerf. But if we're going to base literally all of our opinions on a killer on the absolute worst they have to offer, then we should really also be preventing Wesker from being allowed to see infected survivors, to curb his tunneling, and we should make it so Spirit is visible while phasing to circumvent her accessibility issues, and we should probably also make it so cages of torment don't take a hook state to make Pyramid Head less of an effective tunneler.
If your argument is that she has some problems, yeah, I'd agree, I don't think she's perfect, she probably needs a little fine tuning, but she's far from the worst a game with characters like Spirit, Trickster, or Chucky has to offer. Having problems doesn't mean a killer needs to be scrapped entirely. If it did, we wouldn't have a game to talk about.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702250#Comment_3702250
Call it my anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen literally anything positive regarding her aside Pixel's video, and I won't say that even helped in game, as I still can hardly get past third hook stage without a DC or hook suicide. I would examine the way I play for causing it, but it happens so often before or directly following first down that I don't really think it is anything but the killer I chose.
It doesn't really matter if a killer can be fun to play, if the matches they're involved in aren't. Skull Merchant in my experience can be a joy to face, since she has such a large bag of tricks to pull from, but I can hardly say the ends justify the means when Yui decided she didn't want to play anymore after getting hooked halfway through and now we aren't even allowed to have a bot to keep playing because I guess she didn't want the DC Penalty. Genuinely, I can count on two hands the amount of actual matches I've played with her, and it's not for lack of trying.
Now, how do we fix this? If a rework is off the table, and her current killrate is 10% past the norm, do we just…call it? Do the devs make a statement that says "SM is fine, just learn to vs her?" Is that really going to benefit the community in the long run?
I just don't see what the proposal is here. SM is problematic, and it doesn't matter if the hate from the community is warranted, because it's there, and it ruins most of the matches she's apart of. If a rework is off the table, what is the plan?
"Do the devs make a statement that says "SM is fine, just learn to vs her?" Is that really going to benefit the community in the long run?"
I mean, they could. DbD could use better tutorials that teach you the details of killers' powers, games like Guilty Gear have great tutorials that specifically go into some particularly oppressive tools a character might have and guides you to counter those tools and gameplans. Even if they don't make a tutorial for it, they shouldn't just bend and rip the character apart because people whine. If she stays how she is and they make their intention to preserve her core design clear, it's likely that people will understand they need to learn what they're doing.
I mean, ideally—I admit DbD players are big fans of tantrums. But I don't think ruining a killer some people very strongly like for her unique gameplay is justified because a lot of people throw their hands up every match. If a tutorial and clarified intent doesn't help, then maybe they should make DC penalties worse or remove the ability to use self unhook to kill oneself. I don't know. I just think it's much worse to homogenize the roster than to preserve a design that maybe not everyone likes.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702262#Comment_3702262
Which is what needs to change.
Stationary AOE Status Effect machines is still absolutely terrible, both for the Killer and Survivor.
She needs a full rework to make her viable and fun to play as/against. She has virtually zero skill expression against her and little playing as her.
Also, yeah, not sure why you're so aggressive over that.
Well, she doesn't have an AoE—Her drones fire out two beams that survivors can avoid through LoS blockers, or even just crouching or standing still for a second when it passes over them. Pixel Bush has made a guide talking about how you can aim these beams precisely before they activate, timing it so that they do right as a survivor would go past them, for one example of skill expression. It's an important distinction, because just placing a permanent AoE would be bad—and she doesn't do that. She used to, sure, but she doesn't now. There are plenty of different ways that SM can express skill and strategy with her power, that guide Pixel Bush made is one hour long or longer.
Playing against her isn't unlike playing against killers like Trapper or Hag or even Cenobite, who ask you to be more proactive in disabling the killer's power. I, personally, find it incredibly interesting to go against her. Besides, she is still an M1 killer—even if she uses drones in chase, you have the option of taking an M1 hit to avoid taking lock-on stacks or something, and if she doesn't catch you out in the open when you get a claw trap she has to chase you for that down normally. It's interesting, in my opinion, predicting what overall strategies she wants to employ with her drones and working to counteract them.
If I come off as aggressive, it's only because it's tiring seeing such ignorant takes on SM as if "total, ground up rework" is ever a good idea just because a lot of people don't care to learn the matchup.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702223#Comment_3702223
She didn't get reworked, she got changed.
So far as I can recall, nothing new was added.
Yeah, sorry, they didn't replace her drones with a magical shotgun or whatever, that means it isn't a rework, my bad.
They changed literally every single thing about how her power works, from how her drones detect survivors, to what her drones do when they detect survivors, to how her drones activate after being placed and how they function when deactivated. Literally everything about her power except the base concept is different.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702223#Comment_3702223
Not working the first time isn't really an excuse to stop trying, Legion and Billy can attest to that. Regardless of how many arguments there are about whether or not Skul Merchant is fine power wise, we need to at least understand that poorly designed killers don't tend to get a bad rap after "good" reworks, so Skull Merchant is either an outlier, or there's something else going on.
And that's assuming she is fine. Her current power is extremely oppressive against new survivor, given her ability to apply so many status effects at once. She basically gets Undetectable whenever she wants, and in a much more expendable manner than other killers. Her power shuts down loops, can apply lasting debuffs, even get a cheeky hit, need I go on?
Now, I'm not gonna argue she's the best killer out there, or even that's she's a good killer in the first place, but I feel like it goes without saying that playing as her is significantly easier than playing against her, just by the way she's designed.
Do I know how to fix Skull Merchant? No, but I don't think throwing up our hands and saying "ah, it's fiiiiiiiine" is going to get us anywhere either. SM isn't suddenly going to become a liked or even tolerated killer until something changes, and that's a fact.
I firmly believe the hate for Skull Merchant is a result of something else going on. We've seen every aspect of her hated on since her inception, and while some complaints are or were valid—her original power was awful, yeah—many others are irrational. Skull Merchant is always met with people wanting her deleted and replaced entirely, which is obviously ignorant of how game development actually works. People said she was a lost Predator license, because she had a kind of similar weapon and then literally nothing else lined up.
People have been making things up and refusing to actually sincerely analyze the killer since her inception, and the hate people have for her makes her attractive to players who want to be annoying and toxic—Not her actual kit, just how people perceive the killer. People who don't like SM then use these players as faulty evidence something is wrong with the killer on a fundamental level—There isn't. People just refuse to try and engage with the killer's design and character with any fairness at all.
Pixel Bush's guide turned a lot of people around to her! He's gone over the nuances of her power, the interesting strategies she can employ, and some people have seen that and changed their minds! When people give her a fair chance they're pretty conducive—I mean, it's anecdotal, but I really like going against her myself! Another rework won't fix people's irrational behavior around the killer, it won't fix the problem, it's just going to tear a fun killer away from people that like her.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702210#Comment_3702210
How or why?
How? I dunno, not a game dev.
Why? Because she's the most disliked killer by such a wide margin that her kill rate is bloated because of survivors giving up against her. Idk how that's going to be fixed without a rework.
A rework didn't fix it. There's no reason to believe a second would. Besides, she's mechanically fine these days—there could maybe be a little more reward for hacking drones but most of the issues people have with her stem from their lack of knowledge as to what she does, and their refusal to play against her to learn how to counter her power in the first place.
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While I'm mostly opposed to total reworks, Freddy definitely deserves a reversion to his on-launch design, maybe with his current teleport added on.
Otherwise, I think Spirit is the only character who is so poorly designed they need a rework on that scale. Her power is an accessibility issue, and without that, there's nothing to the power. That's a major issue.
I think if anyone else were to get a major rework, I'd want it to be Wraith, who is incredibly one note and uninteresting for both sides, Nemesis, who just isn't a good adaptation of the character, or Trickster, who lacks an identity beyond obnoxious Huntress. But I would moreso want them to be changed than have their powers scrapped.
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@Sandt1985 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702163#Comment_3702163
Zombies actually move at 1 meter per second, or 25% of survivor running speed
Wait, really? There's no way they're that slow. I could have sworn you could get them to move at almost 4.0 with shattered badge and ink ribbon.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702098#Comment_3702098
I love making Zombies into PTB Victor, that's a great idea.
Zombies move at, like, 2.0 m/s by default. If they're moving 50% faster than they usually do with this suggestion, that's 3.0 m/s. Strong, but not worth losing it over. His zombie movement speed addons would probably need an adjustment but you're grossly exaggerating.
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I think Unknown and Nemesis have great audial feedback—I feel like getting a through-wall hit as Pyramid Head, I rationally recognize that was a hard hit. But Pyramid Head feels bad to use. Nemesis has a loud pingy noise and it makes me feel like I'm the best goddamn player in this video game ever. Unknown manages to balance feeling good with being complex, because nothing feels better than hitting three survivors with your cognitohazard mortar launcher, downing one, injuring another, and weakening the last.
Plague is pretty hit-or-miss—I think there are some cool Plague hits, but she's mostly lame.
Singularity can feel TERRIBLE to hit with sometimes, if he infects a survivor with an EMP it just feels like a waste of my whole life. Teleports also have very inconsistent value, so even if I'm getting infections and teleports it can feel empty.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700597#Comment_3700597
What are they supposed to do? That's not for me to decide. We have too many posts already on here about adjusting her powers. More so than any killer(with the exception of twins of course). Its up to the devs to listen to that feedback otherwise we will continue to see more posts about her like always, ppl giving up more easily, blah blah yada yada. Same thing over again.
How much of that feedback is even remotely valuable, given it's almost all poisoned well "delete/replace the whole killer" drivel? How can it be largely or entirely on them when there's not even a concrete, definable issue with the power, not even a main point to address? Her power isn't really over-complicated beyond the description reading poorly.
SM is absolutely a community issue—People will forever refuse to do anything to learn the matchup or appreciate SM for what is there because the teaser made them want a cyborg (that they got next chapter anyway!) and there simply isn't any way BHVR could even BEGIN to fix that.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700338#Comment_3700338
And honestly. It is mostly the devs fault, not the community. They are the ones who are waiting too long to do anything. And when they do something, its still pretty bad. We already seen it with many other killer reworks. And the most recent wiith a negative feedback being twins if they dont change her from how powerful she is from ptb
What are they supposed to do? How is this on the devs and not the playerbase that has decided to just fight like a bunch of kids? How do they fix this, in your eyes? Reworking SM doesn't fix anything—her current design isn't the issue! Her current design is fine, it's just that nobody plays around her normally.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699844#Comment_3699844
Characters can be both cool in action sense and still fit in a horror setting as the horror genre is extremely versatile. Mechanically speaking he's the best possible fit for DBD out of all choices presented from RE.
Jack is infected with, powered by, and made of the mold but he can not control it. He also isn't a good fit for being a trap setting character as even in the game he doesn't set traps, his son does. Alcina has the Cadou infection which is derived from the mold which not only granted her large size, increased strength, regenerative capabilities, but also the ability to transform her body into a dragon and could command swarms of mold flies. Literally has everything Jack has but better and as for seeing thralls in DBD that's unlikely to happen even with an original character design as players tend to despise losing control of their characters in this game.
At least with Dimitrescu you could have her make use of her own innate abilities or those of her daughters if you absolutely wanted minion type gameplay. That's looking at the characters and comparing their kits as demonstrated in their respective games as objectively as possible. Even if we set aside both Jack and Alucina to choose other boss characters you're in a situation where the best boss characters of the current modern era are in Village. Heisenberg and Donna Beneviento offer interesting and new things to play with and in the case of Donna she can actually control mold infected plant life in addition to her dolls.
Jack isn't the one using the mold himself but he's the one most closely connected to it outside Eveline herself. It's not hard to imagine the Entity giving him control of it, or taking Eveline's place directly. And by trap-setting, I don't just mean mechanical, object traps, but molded arms in the environment that grab at survivors, maybe even pulling them into lockers for a short time, stuff like that. You have more room to get creative with the Mold than the Cadou, and it wouldn't be the first time we've seen a technically incorrect adaptation that enhances the faithfulness of the adaptation. Look at Pyramid Head—none of what he does here is what he does in Silent Hill, but it's a very compelling adaptation of Silent Hill. Dimitrescu's abilities just aren't compelling in comparison—she's more fit to an Artist skin when we finally get power cosmetics in the game, really.
And, sure, a character can be cool and still fit horror. I just don't think Wesker does. You could convince me of a Batman villain fitting in DbD, for example, but that's because they have horror elements that can be leaned into. RE5 Wesker doesn't lean into the scary aspects of Wesker's character, especially not in DbD, where he spouts one liners all the time. This isn't to say I'm unhappy he's here—he's just plain fun, how could I be?—but he really doesn't belong in a horror sense.
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@Yharwick said:
It would be the funniest thing in the world to me if they went with Moreau instead of Lady D.
Also for a serious opinion Donna Beneviento and Angie were the scariest part of RE7 and is much more deserving of a spot. She's very underrated.
I'm of the opinion Donna and Angie would be a Twins skin—I'd love to see them, though, easily the scariest part of Village.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697857#Comment_3697857
Jack Baker isn't really all that interesting though. He's just a big dude with a hammer or chainsaw sheers. His "power" is purely expressed in his extreme regenerative healing ability and strength. Even when you account for his DLC appearance where he's a literal swamp monster doesn't really exhibit much in the way of standout power manifestations and is literally beaten to death by a his cousin using a high tech boxing glove. At least with Lady Dimtrescu you have character with not only a ton more character appeal in the personality department and looks department. You also have a character who has displayed actual controllable power feats such as being able to transform part of or her entire body at will.
Lady Dimitrescu also fills a monster role we don't have any representation for which is Vampire. Jack is the least interesting boss in his own game compared to the likes of his wife who can control and birth insects or his freakazoid son, or the little girl. Jack is funny though which goes a long way in making him memorable. Like we could just make him a Legendary skin for Hillbilly with voice lines an accomplish the effect of having him represented perfectly in game. Can't really do that with Dimitrescu which is something else to consider.
Wesker is also represented fine this game and saying he doesn't fit in this game is like saying he doesn't fit in Teppen or MvC3. Makes zero sense. Nemesis isn't terribly adapted he's just not all that exciting without his arsenal and his arsenal doesn't work in this type of game balance wise. Then again the majority of RE bosses tend to just not function well outside of their game and the ones that do are usually tyrant types or enhanced humans which really limits the available pool of interesting things to be done.
Jack Baker is visually just a guy, sure, and technically speaking he does only walk around with a weapon. However, he's the perfect character to play with the mold taking over the Baker estate for a power—And having the Entity replace Eveline in controlling him makes solid narrative sense as well. Jack is a strong guy who is made of a bio-organic weapon that has also taken over the entire swamp he lives in, so he could easily have a power centered around manipulating the map in ways we haven't seen yet, he's capable of being a very complex trap/setup character. Alcina doesn't have something so versatile or interesting as the mold to work with. Having a vampire would be cool, but Dimitrescu would actually not be a good way of implementing one—I would much rather see an original vampire who can actually use the concepts of feeding on and turning people into thralls.
Wesker from RE5 is well represented, he just doesn't belong. It's nothing at all like saying he doesn't fit in Teppen or MvC, because my argument is that Wesker is tonally inconsistent. He's a comic book character, a Matrix action man. He isn't a horror character in RE5. Jack's humor is mostly worked into his horror, Wesker's high speed action is—intimidating, sure—too far into the ballpark of 'cool' to be scary.
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@IamFran said:
In my case, I don't get why some people in this post want Jack Baker, he is not appealing in any sense, arguably one of the less charismatics and less memorable villains in RE franchise.
Jack has a very prominent personality, in a series of giant silent bioweapons and sneering agents, Jack stands alone as a representation of what the Umbrella Corporation, bio-organic weapons, and weaponized viruses do to the common people and to the world. He's constantly laughing and degrading you not in the way some comic book villain would but instead like an older guy might joke with you. I find him to be one of few instances where a character like that—one who is saying funny things all the time and laughing—manages to still be scary. It's also genuinely super heartbreaking when you get to see glimpses of his actual personality at the end of the game and in the DLC, seeing that he is a genuinely compassionate father figure who is forced to be this perverse parody of the stereotypical American father.
He also has great potential for a power—no killer has ever REALLY manipulated the map, not in the way he might using the Mold. He could do something more than placing portals or trails of a hazard, he could reasonably set up ways to walk through structures or have lockers and chests sprout awful hands to grab you as you pass, create shortlived walls of mold, even. Plus, he is directly inspired by slasher films.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699188#Comment_3699188
Freddie's Lullaby is a by-product when he originally had pure invisiblity, with next to no ability to tell his position except if you see grass moving or hear his footsteps. If you were awake, you did not hear the terror radius, so the lullaby was the only warning he was nearby and that he could maybe see you. Funnily enough, with Monitor and Abuse with wallhacks he was basically a stealth killer anyway, and could reduce his TR to 8 metres with Paint brush.
They kept the lullaby when his rework came in, where being asleep made you oblivious. Oblivious was stronger on Freddy originally, back when deep wounds depended on if you were in the terror radius rather than if you were sprinting.
I don't want them to get rid of the lullaby, because it is one of the few remaining parts of him that still feel thematic. But for some reason Freddy rarely gets changed, which I assume is because New Line are very stingy about making any changes to licensed characters.I dunno, Demo got some numbers changes even after that chapter got delisted. I think BHVR just doesn't care about Freddy that much, feels like he's here because he's always been at this point, not because BHVR wants him to be
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Lullabies are only implemented very intentionally, or on Sadako. This begins with the idea the Huntress, being capable of hitting you from any range—even across the entire map—if she's good enough, should probably give you some more warning than the other killers in the game at the time. Trickster got one because he is bootleg Huntress.
Freddy's is largely thematic but prevents him from being a full-fledged stealth killer in his current Jack of All Trades, Master of None design. It's better than the developing TR, but is still something of a warning. Onryo also has one for presumably the same reason.
Wesker, on the other hand, has an extended Terror Radius. It seems like it was an incredibly intentional choice to give him this instead of some form of lullaby, and it is actually likely for the sake of promoting perk variety without allowing this fairly mobile and lethal killer from simply rocking up while you're inflicted with Uroburos and killing you before you can react at 92% movement speed or whatever the actual value is. Removing a killer's entire ability to use stealth-based perks is something that shouldn't be done lightly (even though they have done that lightly twice)—This is why they increased Slinger's TR instead of adding a whistle radius or something, because he is supposed to have the ability to be a more stealthy ranged killer.
Wesker's issue isn't being stealthy, and Unforeseen is probably just a bit overtuned. They probably oughta up Blight's TR, though.
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@ArkInk said:
I'll start. So you know how Unknown has an Addon about a haunted videogame cartridge?
And given his nature as a killer inspired by Creepypasta and Analogue Horror, this likely a reference to the large influx of haunted video game stories from the 2000's and 2010's, the biggest of which being those godawful .exe games with Hyperealistic blood and whatnot?
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/650/537/fe8.png
Well, as someone who was born in the mid 2000's and has been playing this game since launch (yes I started playing when I was like 10), an Unknown Cosmetic that emulates an almost retro gameified look of him with stupid red eyes and tear blood streaks would be almost completely full circle for me.
I'd make a mockup, but my art skills are equivalent to that of most of the .exe deviantart out there, so I'll leave it to your imagination.
Other than a solid new Singul. cosmetic, I'd love to see a Knight cosmetic that's maybe not so over the top.
I haven't drawn it up yet, but I had an idea for a green rarity cosmetic where he'd have a surcoat and a great helm like from the crusades, maybe one version of it has an actual surcoat from like the Knights Templar and another has a coat of arms instead, something like that. I doubt such a thing would happen—BHVR doesn't like Knight too much, and imagery from religions that are super prominent in the modern day are probably off limits. Regardless, I think giving the character who is a criticism of medieval Europe's glamorization of war a cosmetic based on maybe the most iconically over-glamorized wars medieval Europe ever led would be cool.
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For me, I mostly play my mains—Knight and Unknown—when I'm not immediately compelled to play anyone else. I gravitate to them a lot but I don't play them anywhere near exclusively, most of my playtime is spent bobbing between killers.
On survivor I'm a lot more rigid. I play Cheryl, Nic Cage, and sometimes RE survivors, but mostly Cheryl.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I feel like telling the survivor they are visible to the killer gives far too much information to the survivor. The survivor will immediately be able to tell what perks the killer is running, and also which ones they're not. Games then become a checklist of "he's not running BBQ, or NtH, Oh He Has Bloodwarden".
I don't like to call things hand-holding, but taking a rather large part of the guesswork out of the game ain't it for me.
Thinking about it, it also is a dead giveaway that the killer has Undying. The amount of times survivors run by dull totems without realizing I see them is insane, and giving survivors a "hey go cleanse devour" warning on roundstart would make that perk literally unusable
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698241#Comment_3698241
I felt the fact I was being hyperbolic when I said "free" was pretty clear so I guess we're even.
Getting back on topic, I will once again reiterate that I agree that Sadako's power is underwhelming- as I have already said. I just think the statement that OP and others have made - that they think the power is not functioning - comes from an expectation that the power ought to reliably be usable to bypass the core mechanic of hook states, which I think is unhealthy for the game. Furthermore, I think the assertion that her power "doesn't function" is equally hyperbolic to my saying that people want a "free" mori. I can only speculate why you objected to my use of hyperbole and not the OP's
I don't necessarily think that the power should be able of super easily bypassing hook states for a mori within 1 gen, it's moreso that every other part of her power is so incredibly limited it seems like condemnation would wind up being the only place left for the power to inform any sort of gameplan.
(Also, I am glad my love for hyperbole was acknowledged. I love making everything seem way more intense than it actually is.)
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697857#Comment_3697857
Regarding Silent Hill, I'd say "Silent Hill 4: The Room" would be the biggest contender. The game has been favourablylooked upon in recent years, unlike when it came out where the change was probably too extreme for many, alongside some unusually odd choices.
Although Pyramid Head is above this killer, Walter Sullivan has some great seeds for a killer power, in terms of the Ghosts of the victims he murdered. Henry and Eileen would be great Survivors, but Walter has a lot more going for him in terms of power ideas.
SH4 was actually also where my mind jumped to from what I knew about it. That would be pretty cool, and it'd be interesting if survivors could use those swords(they were swords, right?) to pin some of his AI enemies down but wouldn't ever be able to pin down all of them. Turn the swords, nails, whathaveyou into a resource they need to more constantly manage.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410740/does-sadako-do-anything
The tapes don't passively build up condemned. That's an OG thing that got removed.
She's good in the right hands. Okay killer.
Main her.
Well, from what I've gathered since making this post, her only significant ability is her teleport, something easily disabled by survivors. She has no stealth, chase potential, or even really relevant map pressure if survivors are even a bit proactive. Where does her potential come in—why main her over killers with better versions of her tools, like Pig, Wraith, arguably Freddy?
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697857#Comment_3697857
SH has a few easy candidates they could pull from, the best probably being Valtiel, who's kinda Cheryl's Pyramid Head in a way.
I think there's enough ST content as is, but there's also a lot they could add. Without getting into rumor talk, I think it's more likely than not BHVR goes back for more eventually. Personally, I'm fine with what we have.
Alien I don't necessarily think needs a full new chapter, but Hicks as a survivor would be cool and another map would also be fire after Nostromo (my only issue with the map is the amount of clutter). There's definitely something that could work as a killer from it, but I agree that a second Xeno wouldn't really be exciting. It'd be like if Hillbilly was added after Leatherface.
RE I think is great. The survivors and skins all are spot on, so that's half the battle. I agree that Nemesis was butchered, but I think Wesker is fine. There's so much currently in the game that was utterly unimaginable at the start it's kinda crazy, and he's well designed for the most part and goofy. RPD is still dog trash, but I don't think there's anyone out there (who plays killer at least) that disagrees.
There's a lot from ST they could add, they just shouldn't 'cause ST sucks. That's really my only reason for not wanting more ST in the game I think the show is really bad. Shallow and subjective reason, but, I mean, I'm totally right.
I think the problem with RE in DbD is that it really brought the level of technology survivors can hit you with somewhere I dunno if I feel comfortable with, you know? Flashbangs and blast mines and wiretaps are all… A lot? Not to mention they're super obnoxious mechanics so far as they were implemented, but the survivors and skins are good.
I'm not gonna budge on RE5 Wesker not belonging, though—He's not scary, nor is he intimidating, I can't in good conscience say he's a horror character at all. I don't think he was implemented poorly, either—for what he is, he's well implemented, I just can't help but think they should have gone with a human Wesker to represent the corporate evil of RE instead of the matrix man. He would have been really interesting as a trap-setting, minion-summoning mastermind playing not like the killer in REsistance, that would have been great. I just can't abide by the leather coat high speed Marvel vs Capcom man, I guess.
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@DaddyMikeyMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697857#Comment_3697857
Pyramid Head is THE mascot character of Silent Hill, by far. No other monster or killer character from that series has anywhere near the love or fame that he has. Similarly they've already included all the most famous or popular character from the whole series. There's honestly not really anything left, at least not anything that would make anyone jump for more SH content.
With RE though, yeah, I find the Lady D thing lame as well. 7 is my favorite entry in the whole series and I would love to see Jack as a killer. Even Marguerite could be kind of cool. The wandering arachnid lady who carries a lantern and spits out bugs that chase you. I'd dig that.
I think Marguerite shouldn't be an actual killer herself, but she is the single most obvious Plague legendary I've ever seen down to the lantern being a perfect fit for Plague's censer.
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@ArkInk said:
I hate to say it, but yeah, the guy up top is probably right. I don't think she's a bad character or anything, but she wouldn't be half as popular as she is if she weren't sexualized.
As for a 3rd RE Chapter, I feel like 7 did so much for the current horror gaming genre that it'd be fitting for a full chapter. Still, I think it goes without saying RE has been done the most justice in terms of representation (Nemesis not included), it is after all the only License with two entire killers and four survivors. I think it'd be much better to double dip Silent Hill, Stranger Things, or even Alien before returning back to RE.
I knew it was mostly that, I was just hoping to be a LITTLE wrong. It's a shame—I think she's alright, it's just the most obvious hornybait character I've ever seen after having played the game.
I'm not so well versed in Silent Hill, so I don't know much about other killer candidates. I would rather not get another ST chapter, and I don't see the potential in Xenomorph 2, really, though.
As an aside, I think RE has awful representation as a horror series in DbD, because Nemesis is terribly adapted and Wesker doesn't fit this game whatsoever, and it's a shame—Jack should have been here before Wesker, at least.
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@Neaxolotl said:
There is much of difference in utilizing tunneling and not utilizing it, I think removing tunneling altogether would help this game immensely by showing true kill rate of 12 hooking
Do you have any suggestions, or even just the one? Are BHVR just meant to say "Tunneling is illegal now, as is crime"? How do you remove tunneling without massively empowering survivors' ability to force the killer to tunnel, or even just without kneecapping killer gameplay? Have you considered anything about what this even means?
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Aura perks would lose a lot of their power if survivors just got to know they were active, and it would also remove the potential for survivors to deduce what perks a killer has on their own—it massively lowers the skill floor in a bad way. Instead of survivors being rewarded for understanding the game better, and deducing what a killer has based on their tendencies after certain actions, or where they catch survivors hiding, survivors would just get a warning saying "Hey, it's time to go somewhere else for a second". That's just not very fun for either side, and I think it really prevents killers from experimenting with perks and addons.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696992#Comment_3696992
Honestly, i'm fine with whatever they decide to do with Nemmy as long as they don't give it any weaponry from his game.
What is it that makes you so opposed to giving him a weapon in particular? Not that I even disagree, I'm just curious. I assume you think it's too far into the action genre, which I'd probably agree with at least for the actual rocket launcher and hi-tech flamethrower. I'd like to maybe see a weapon that's more grounded, myself, some sort of canister that emits the T Virus would be fitting without feeling out of place in DbD, I think
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@Smoe said:
I'd rather give him an addon rework that incorporates more of his sprint ability than giving him a rocket launcher or any other form of weaponry.
I think the problem with building Nemesis into a sprint is that that's… Boring. It's not interesting, we have twelve of that sort of power, and it's not really an interesting part of the Nemesis if we had to choose one thing to add. The Nemesis is a mutative, adaptive, intelligent pursuer, surely we can come up with something more compelling than a run button, right? We could give him an information feature or actually change some of his options at different stages of mutation, something.
The Nemesis doesn't even just use his weapons to fire at Jill—He burns or explodes escape routes from a distance, he uses them to keep Jill from escaping, he uses them in interesting ways that play into the most compelling part of his role in RE3. He doesn't necessarily need a gigantic missile launcher so long as what he gets is something that lets him do interesting things and cut survivors off in more interesting ways than just being a big guy that's already standing where they wanna go.
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I believe it's been confirmed it was left out for being tonally inconsistent rather than for reasons of programming or balance.
I definitely think Nemesis needs something added onto his anemic, critically uninteresting kit, though—if I had my way his power would be changed entirely, and more or less the exact same ability could instead be given to a Licker from the series. Nemesis isn't interesting, he isn't good, and he's also not even really a good adaptation of the character who is notorious for his relentless yet intelligent pursuit. He is constantly using his superior intelligence to track and ambush Jill, to cut off her escape routes very intentionally, and yet in DbD he is just a guy who slaps you with a limp noodle.
I'd like to see a projectile that maybe causes a large area to be rendered unsafe—maybe some sort of bomb, maybe it could be a canister of the T-Virus, that would be interesting. Or he could have a longer-ranged attack where he spears his tentacle into the ground and has it emerge farther ahead.
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@Ayodam said:
Dead Dog is a known killer sided map because it tends to spawn 3 gens naturally, has weak loops, and dead zones. Some of what happened in the scenario you explained was unavoidable. But it’s good you got out.
You can break those 3 gens if you put any effort into it. I mean, the gen in main is free—and should really be left til' last. Even if not, at least leaving ONE generator undone across the map makes it harder to defend every gen.
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@TheSubstitute said:
That's why my best escape rate in solo is with a Deja Vu, Built to Last, Prove Thyself build (with OTR due to the ubiquitous tunneling and a Commodious with charge add-ons for BTL).
I'm mediocre at chase but I understand the meta strategy very well and stopping the three gen yourself works very well in preventing aggravation.
I usually bring a commodious toolbox with two charge addons to do the job myself, yeah. I really wish I could ever succeed in beckoning survivors off gens that aren't good to do early but what can you do, right?
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She's not very compelling. She could work, but I'd much rather see Jack Baker, or Heisenberg, who are both vastly more interesting.
Dimitrescu is intentionally uninteresting, to settle you into Village, but it doesn't make her a good fit for a killer. There are things you could DO, sure, but she would still be a middling addition. Her main powers are being big(not a power) and having daughters(not compelling with Knight already in the game).
Look at the mold which alters the very environment of the Baker estate—that'd be a GREAT foundation for a power. Heisenberg's metallic minions and magnetic powers could make for an interesting gameplay loop of creating minions and later destroying them to fuel a projectile power that also plays into his narrative role and character, his willingness to use Rose as a weapon. Dimitrescu doesn't really have all that. She'd sell good—But I bet Jack would too, RE7 sold great and it was also a better game.
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I feel like a lot of comments here aren't really looking at whether or not cages should ignore hooking mechanics, just whether or not they do—which we all know the answer to and isn't the point of the thread. Yes, cages uniquely ignore all hooking mechanics, but is that a good thing? I personally would argue no. It heavily curtails his perk variety, renders him just about unbuffable because if they make him better without making him worse at tunneling he is simply the supreme tunneler and not much else, and also is an annoying playstyle in general? Tunneling is really strong, it doesn't need to be stronger. It's also just not interesting—there's a lot more you could do with caging survivors that they just can't because cages are a tunneling mechanic first, or at LEAST in equal proportion to them being a snowball mechanic.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410341/idea-for-the-unknown
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you already reset their timer if you hit them succesfully and I think it even pauses for 1-2 seconds. So there shouldn't be a case where you don't have time to shot.
This is more concerned with the first, weakening shot. I don't know if consecutive hits pause the timer but they do reset it, perhaps not to full and instead missing one second? Don't quote me on that, but that's the idea. The Unknown has a very thin margin of time to get the second hit though, unless it can find something to hide behind or the survivor moves their camera wrong, etc.
That short period of time to get the injury can be pretty frustrating at times. I don't know if he needs a buff to cover it, though—not that I'd complain.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693855#Comment_3693855
Not only that, but let's say the devs changed her again. Are the people who are refusing to learn how to play against her suddenly going to start learning how to play against her? probably not. It just needs time similar to legion.
Exactly! These people just want to not have to interact with anything that isn't exactly like every other killer.
There's a Sajam video about this. DbD fans are exactly like fighting game fans—They're still gonna get smoked by SM if she gets nerfed NOT because she's OP, but because they suck and have no idea what they're doing! Just learn the matchup.