arcaneGospel
arcaneGospel
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The official perspective is that anything which has room to fit into the horror genre is fair game, a perspective I would agree with if I thought BHVR was good at doing that(Vecna doesn't belong here). That's why we got DnD and Castlevania, which aren't strictly horror series but have prominent horror elements. I think it's worth noting, though… Terminator is a horror movie? The series definitely becomes more of an action series, but the first isn't even just adjacent to horror, it's in every sense just a horror movie. Terminator is absolutely fair game.
If you're asking me, Wesker is about as non-horror as I'm willing to accept. He's a very actiony version of the character that doesn't belong and gets in because Nemesis put in a good word. Vecna is beyond the Wesker Threshold.
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@OrangeBear said:
Persona
Also Persona. Specifically 4, I'd say, naturally.
If not that, I do really want Yoshikage Kira from part 4 of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, or Harry Warden from My Bloody Valentine.
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@kingchris200 said:
Sorry but no one should be punished if they choose to quit for whatever reason. This needs to ne removed asap.
Why shouldn't they be? They're not the only part of the experience—quitting deprives other survivors of a capable teammate, and deprives the killer of an enjoyable, fair challenge.
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I haven't noticed. I mean, it IS a thing. It's just that I still go to second stage when I would've before, and it hasn't much impacted me as killer because survivors always try to unhook literally 5 seconds after I look away. So, I mean, whatever, right?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791737#Comment_3791737
I wouldn’t call old Freddy to new Freddy a completely new power. Still has similar elements to his 1.0 version, it is new but radically simple in comparison to a proposed Nemmy Sprint
Adding a secondary ability to a killer that's a normal sprint is nowhere near the scale of:
-Adding two new abilities and a third only accessible via addons to a power
-Removing the ability to manually enter survivors into the dream
-Adding alarm clocks and a passive sleep system -
Alucard being a killer would be pretty lame, I think. He's a heroic character, and one whose narrative isn't interesting because of some corruptibility, but because he's so fundamentally opposed to his father that he still, on some level, loves. The characters work because Dracula is trying to kill his own son when he only wants to destroy humanity *because* he loves his family, and humans took that from him. Alucard isn't a character whose blood renders him evil or who really COULD work in a majorly villainous role at all, that would just kind of get rid of what makes him compelling. And, most importantly, it just wouldn't be an interesting skin.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Hollywood Undead masks could work well for either side. But the doors wide open for pretty much anything survivor wise.
I somehow forgot about Hollywood Undead, despite the fact I literally call the Legion Hollywood Undead wannabes in my head. Funny
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785635#Comment_3785635
Ok I understand that and I agree he couldve been better, how ever how do you say other licenses have had better adaptations, and then mention Freddy?? Who is not only VERY poorly adapted but has been in desperate need of some sort of rework for several years now.
Well, Freddy's ORIGINAL power was super faithful, super thematic. For that reason alone, he's always going to be a better adaptation than Nemesis, because he was at least ONCE a truly good adaptation. But even now, the dream transposition is a genuinely fitting and often interesting tool to use, because you can use it in chase to an extent, and use it for mindgames. It also thematically fits, turning what is otherwise a symbol of progress necessary to survival into a perverse source of danger you have to approach anyway, just like Freddy affects the concept of sleep. Nemesis has nothing like that now, and never has—Freddy has had and still, somewhat, has things that are truly faithful.
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I think other than Ice Nine Kills, obviously, that Carpenter Brut could really work.
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I haven't seen many. I guess mine got boosted because of a comment?
I guess it's because of the recent buffs—as a Nemesis main, I'm happy to be getting a buff at all. I'd still rather a more faithful kit, but that's long past and would require a total scrapping of everything he is right now. So I'm not getting my hopes up.
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Huntress, Spirit, AND Wraith exist, man! I don't understand how SM and Knight are the ones people care about here.
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I don't think there's any value in the devs trying to mark off archetypal characters, really. We actually do have a killer based on the wolf man, in fact, with NUMEROUS references to the Universal film. He's Talbot Grimes, named for Larry Talbot(The titular Wolf Man), using a cane as reference to the one given to the Wolf Man so he can defend himself. He's actually a very interesting reinterpretation of that sort of character, far more than if we got any simple old werewolf. Similarly, Adiris, the Plague, is actually a take on a mummy killer. I think we're getting and have gotten BHVR's versions of these characters, and it would be redundant and kind of staid if they tried to go for archetypes like some people request.
On the demon killer, specifically, I don't think BHVR is willing to deal with religions that are, in the modern day, prominent and followed, so there's nothing we could get from a killer defined by being a traditional demon. Without any proper religious themes, that's just another monster.
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I think Springtrap as the killer is undebatable. I think for maps, I'd personally try to glue the FNaF 1 location to FNaF 3's Fazbear's Fright, to get the two most important locations to Springtrap himself(The location from his game, and the location that has the safe room he died in) in the game while not having to deal with either map being too small on its own.
The survivor question, to me, comes down to Michael Afton or Vanessa. My money is on Vanessa but I think Mike would be more interesting—It's not unheard of for DbD to make their own designs for a character as seen with the adult Yoichi Asakawa, so I can see BHVR taking what we have for Mike and running with it. Wouldn't it be cool to have a survivor who is, like, literally a shambling corpse?
I think the only thing I'm really puzzled on is Springtrap's power. Knowing how safe BHVR is with licensed powers, he'll probably have vents and a stealth mode. Ideally he would use the phantoms from 3, achieving FNaF's feel of juggling thirteen animatronics with their own rules, while also representing how William's victims are restless and forced into violence. I could maybe see suits used as special hooks, which maybe would turn into AI enemies while survivors are in them, but I can't see that happening.
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Trickster doesn't need to be 4.4, he needs to be retooled from the ground up. BHVR has never chosen a direction to take him so he's always just Easier, Less Interactive Huntress. And Huntress is already easy and uninteractive.
Making him slower doesn't make him less mind numbing, just a little weaker.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779877#Comment_3779877
The weird thing I find about ppl being stressed about the killer's teaming up is... 2v8 has been widely asked for for years. Did no one honestly think of that part?This shouldn't be a surprise that the 2v8 that's been on the wishlist does infact include 2 killers on the same map.
The problem is that it's all the most abysmal killers to engage with, not that I inherently oppose having two killers at once. My issue is that I'm being forced to deal with Huntress and Wraith, who are both utterly mind numbing to go up against, which is worse when it's both.
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I think having a friend with you crushing heads makes things intrinsically more enjoyable, but it also definitely helps that there are no perks—survivors always run the same few perks that are really in-your-face, whereas all the stuff in 2v8 is less obnoxious, I find.
On the other hand, survivor is miserable—mostly owing to the killers available. Huntress was already one of the least interactive killers to engage with before Wraith(another top contender) was on you too.
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@Levallan said:
Disclaimer: I have nothing against the FNAF franchise itself.
Introduction
I am concerned that this DLC crossover could lead to younger players accessing content that is not appropriate for their age group and ruining the game for the existing players in this community. I know there is a lot of text here but please hear me out!
Intended Audiences
As a primary school teacher, I have observed that many of my younger, more immature students are avid fans of FNAF. This game, while undeniably popular and influential, tends to attract a younger audience. From my experience, it's rare to meet an adult who plays FNAF; it is predominantly a game enjoyed by children. One of my year 6 students addressed this concern to me stating, "That's stupid it's an R18 game and they're literally asking us to play it by adding FNAF!" That's the voice of an 11 year old child.
Dead by Daylight is rated R18 and is designed for an adult audience. Its themes and gameplay are more suited to mature players who can handle its intense horror elements and mechanics. Incorporating FNAF DLC could potentially blur this distinction and bring in a younger audience that isn't ideally suited for the mature content and interactions within the DBD community.
Game Ratings
As someone who has prev. worked at EB Games, I understand that parents are ultimately responsible for guiding their children's gaming choices and setting boundaries. However, in reality, many parents do not always enforce these rules or are unaware of the content their children are accessing. Additionally, children often have easy ways to bypass age restrictions and deceive online platforms about their true age. This makes it all too simple for younger players to access games that are not suitable for them, despite age ratings and parental advisories.
Interactions in the Community
Introducing the FNAF DLC into Dead by Daylight could also exacerbate issues related to player interaction and toxicity within the game. In games like League of Legends and Overwatch, where younger players often clash with adults, we've seen an increase in toxic behaviour, with players engaging in harmful and abusive communication. This could lead to more instances of immature behaviour, such as frequent trolling, aggressive interactions, and general toxicity. Children, often emboldened behind their screens, may engage in disruptive and negative conduct, which could further strain the already fraught community dynamics. Those who are primarily DBD streamers let me ask you, do you want little child keyboard warriors popping into your chat?
Conclusion
Again, I want to emphasize that my concern is not with FNAF itself, but rather with the demographic it might bring to a game that is intended for adults.
Why I am posting: I would like to know the player's thoughts around this! 👻
Who do you think plays this game now, man?
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I think Ghostface—he's TOTALLY landing in 2v8 at some point, by the way, licensed or not—would require a lot of work to make functional for the mode. He's a sort of isolating stalker who picks people off one by one… Which doesn't really work for a game mode with seven other rodent survivors scurrying about. That's not to mention that he often wants to delay finishing his stalking, but injuries remove all mark progress.
I think it would be cool if in 2v8, injuring survivors with partial stalk gave you haste based on their stalk progress, meaning it's less detrimental for them to be getting hit by Ghostface's teammate because it still gives some lethality. I'd also make it so that marking survivors gave other survivors stalk progress, to make it less detrimental that he's so prone to focusing on one person
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I think at best you could come up with a power for both William Afton and Vanessa, but not only would I put money on Vanessa being the survivor, Vanessa's power would probably have to be pretty mechanically complex and rely on map manipulation or something. They couldn't release two killers in one chapter if their powers weren't crazy hard to program.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Hopefully she never does. It would be cool if she got the female animations though.
Yeah, I think BHVR's been exceptionally cowardly when it comes to giving characters different body types. If they changed Aestri's model she'd lose something that makes her stand out a little.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771923#Comment_3771923
I wouldn’t even say those three perks are something to worry about. They’re all niche perks and pretty easily dealt with. I can’t even remember the last time I saw Wiretap or Chem Trap.
They really just bother me, personally. They salted my crops, poisoned the water supply.
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They buffed like, three survivor perks to be worried about. ChemTrap, Flashbang, and Wiretap. The others are gimmick perks. They buffed three killers' basekits in ways they'll really appreciate—as an avid Nemesis player, I'm looking forward to having the hindered be an actual part of my power—which FAR outpaces a few perks bing better. ChemTrap debatably might be worse, though I don't exactly think so.
I take more issue with what perks they buffed, not how many, mostly because the RE1 blinding perks are absolutely obnoxious as is ChemTrap. Blast Mine is the exception of those three because it isn't good, but it's still obnoxious and poorly designed. Other perks give you something unrelated to generators after doing a generator, Blast Mine gives you insurance on a generator… For doing a generator. It's not good enough for me to lose sleep but it's annoying enough for me to not like it.
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Because the Trapper is an intimidating person canonically.
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That's right, OP is BREAKING DOWN THE FACTS:Wildly speculating, doomsaying, and spouting Us vs Them talking points again.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752830#Comment_3752830
Tbf I have a HUGE problem with Vecna too and I wouldn't have wanted Wesker regardless. I would've rathered an Re1 chapter with chris, jill, and Tyrant/Lisa Trevor then an Re2 chapter with Leon, Ada, and either Mr X or Birkin (I dont like Claire but love Ada lol)
I really don't think non-Nemesis tyrants would have worked. They'd be bland, really. Birkin would also be pretty limited. My problem with Wesker isn't that he could never work, but that he could never work if they went with his RE5 appearance. His earlier appearance in RE1 would have made for a very interesting setup killer with zombies as enemies and traps, kind of like in REsistance. But, really, I think Nemesis is the only truly good pick for a killer in the first few games, and then the best otherwise is Jack Baker.
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Lara's only a problem if Jill Valentine is. Lara seems perfectly fine as an adaptation, let's be real—If Vecna and Wesker were allowed in DbD, Lara feels uninteresting rather than offensive. Vecna and Wesker make it clear to me that the problem is how a character is adapted, and they—to my knowledge, I can't play the PTB as a console player—didn't make Lara Croft half as much of an action-centric character as they did Wesker.
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@jezebelthenun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745860#Comment_3745860
True skill is knowing the difference between a worthwhile chase and a bait. Knowing when to go apply pressure to the gens instead of chasing any survivor you see. Where did the attitude that every chase is supposed to end in a hook come from? Is hooking the end goal? Sure, but is it the only way to play, not by a long shot.
Yeah that's not what I'm saying. You realize survivors control where a chase is going, right? If they run to a hook deadzone every time you try to pressure them off a generator, you're going to have to slug—or as you suggest, not even that. I'm not talking about survivors running around not doing objectives being bad chases to take, I'm talking about survivors who recognize a hook deadzone and lead every chase they can there.
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@jezebelthenun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745684#Comment_3745684
Y'know what? Yes. The best killers know not to commit to fruitless chases. They don't chase a survivor into a dead zone. They don't waste time chasing the clicky clicky lithe megs. Knowing when to let a person go is just as important in a killer's skill set as anything else. If you do commit to those chases, you wasted your own time. You got baited into losing gens and hooks. Pay attention to your surroundings.
You=anyone playing killer.
Yes, TRUE skill is dropping chase and simply not downing survivors! That way, you'd never have the chance to hook them, so there being hook deadzones isn't a problem anyway!
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@board24jason123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744603#Comment_3744603
so your wanting another nurse like S tier killer who can blink through objects and get free hits and downs?? The thing is we don’t need another nurse like the devs can’t even work on their low tier killers who doesn’t have the same advantage as nurse. Ghostface Onryo or Pig can’t even reach at the high level as nurse
Have you considered that you're taking it too literally? More killers like the Nurse doesn't mean characters that function exactly the same. There's already a killer that's pretty much exactly the same function as Nurse—it's Spirit. That's not what the quote means, though. Because Spirit is still 110%, she is still playing pretty normally, if oppressively and uninterestingly. Nurse, though, is entirely unique, she CAN'T play the same game as anyone else, and blinks are pretty interesting and out there as a function. This quote is, I believe, really talking about having more killers that need to play the game entirely differently. Like, say, Freddy's original power forced him to play an entirely different game from the rest of the roster.
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I think Nurse's design is interesting and unique. We do need more Nurse-types who cannot play the same way as other killers at all.
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@ImWinston said:
- Can you do an event next year without broken mechanics on one side or the other?
What am I talking about?
- No snowmen protecting survivors (Christmas event)
- No insta-exposed (last year's event)
- No insta- healing (this year…but at least it gives an "exposed" effect))
- No insta-hook (this year)
No insta- breaking of pallet (this year)
And for those who tell me "go play the normal game"… I'm a customer who has spent a lot of money on skins and DLC... I would like to enjoy a fun event once a year with balanced mechanics, am I asking for "crazy things"?
That's a pretty unhelpful request. What constitutes a broken mechanic in this sort of context could pretty reasonably be disagreed upon by a lot of people, that's something we see happen all the time, and even if each side gets a very strong, very oppressive mechanic, you could also probably argue that both sides having such mechanics evens out. I don't think this is healthy logic personally, but you haven't provided a benchmark for a balanced event mechanic, preexisting or even just conceptual. There simply isn't enough to discern from your post as it is—what even MAKES those listed mechanics broken, in your eyes, anyway?
(It's also worth noting that, because of event queue separation, balance in events IS objectively less important because it won't run the risk of completely upending the whole game, there is always the usual game to fall back on—looking for feedback on balancing an event that won't be around long enough to be patched when it isn't preventing the base game from being played probably is less of a priority.) I understand wanting the event itself to be balanced, don't get me wrong, but I think this post could use a bit of elaboration.
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This is the only thing about the survivors I actually like, to be frank. It's interesting, and is the first time BHVR has made any female survivor not very small. Body diversity is important, I think, in making recognizable characters, and it's something DBD is lacking in.
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Launch DbD isn't different from modern DbD in a fun way, it was just a worse game. Going back to that wouldn't make for a fun spin on gameplay, it would just be bad.
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@Beaburd said:
A killer I want to like but can't bring myself to - he needs a complete revamp.
Starting with Robert Englund version of Freddy.
I know it isn't the point of the thread, but I don't know why everyone says we need to turn Freddy in DbD into the Robert Englund version. Not that I don't appreciate Robert Englund, of course, and if I'm misunderstanding the statement and it's meant to say he needs a skin to be Englund's Freddy I do apologize—I very much agree with that. But Jackie Earle Haley's performance was good, and really more tonally consistent with DbD. I dunno, I quite like the character we have—the mechanics are the issue.
Weird tangent aside, yeah, Freddy's original kit was way better than his bland current one. Maybe now we could revert to the original version, but have him unlock new dream abilities after putting survivors to sleep enough, like how in FvJ he needs to be feared to have power. -
I unhook them because I don't like them. There is no practical purpose. I just despise people who decide to give up.
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I really like playing against Skull Merchant, I find it more engaging than going against a lot of more popular killers, really. Spirit, Trickster, and Doctor need reworks FAR sooner than Skull Merchant, who is dare I say both balanced AND fun to go against if you try.
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I don't see a Monster Hunter chapter working that well myself, but I mean, I want a Diamond is Unbreakable chapter or a Persona 4 chapter so I don't really get to say much, huh?
Counterpoint to 11:Dio Brando would make a really good standalone killer. But DIO Trickster is acceptable. -
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725197#Comment_3725197
"still used religions' is such a funny sentence… XD
pretty sure that eliminates all of them… people still worship zeus and bastet and probably any other god you might think it's no longer worshipped.
personally don't think it's a good enough reason to not use them. as long as you are respectful and aren't putting giratina in the game just because, it should be free game.
like… I'm up for some version of satan as a killer. just saying.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725353#Comment_3725353
so you never played a horror campaign? you should, it's cool.
was never a fan of wesker either, specially because we already had nemesis. at least I like his camp
depends on which dracula. the thing with castlevania is that they go from camp comedy to serious all the time. there are more scary incarnations of him. but the monster who gave their humanity away and keeps coming back to life to try and destroy humanity is absolutely a horror character.
also, a series that produces such dumb but awesome lines such as these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PrHEelh5oo
https://youtu.be/TIvkKw4EtCU?si=A-bYYkIJY4kOFRuU&t=258
should be everywhere.
Wesker only got in because he snuck in behind Nemesis.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's not that Vecna was impossible to make work, they just didn't try to make him work. He isn't scary or even trying to be, but if he tried he would have been great! If they went for lich over wizard he could have worked. But he's a wizard first, lich… Not at all. He has nothing to do with the things that make liches what they are, he has no necromancy in his kit—Flight of the Damned does not count because it is just an AoE, it could have been burning hands for all I care and it would be no different. Vecna just doesn't lean into what would make him work as a horror character. And the bards are not even vaguely suggesting horror, we really should have gotten a ranger or a rogue.
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@ArkInk said:
With the upcoming release of Vecna, that's soon to be followed by an as of yet unknown licensed survivor, that will then be upped by Castlevania being included (and don't forget the solo licensed killer in March).
What do you think is best for the game? Are licenses actually more worth it over regular chapters? Should only the ones considered "big" be focused on? Do you think more new players from a certain fanbase could be detrimental to the playing experience? Personally, this year looks worrying, but potentially very exciting if it's executed on well.
I think that I'd maybe like more original chapters than we're getting this year, but overall we get a good ratio of license to original.
I'm a lot more strict with my take on WHAT licenses we get. I don't think this DnD chapter belongs whatsoever, I don't think Wesker should be here either, and I don't exactly trust Dracula to be a good, horrific interpretation of a vampire. They just aren't horror characters, Vecna is spooky at best. These three really seem to conflate Intimidating and Scary, which is wrong—and let's be real, Wesker only got in because he snuck in behind Nemesis.
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I think you should have just been luckier.
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I don't play them anymore. I found their kit incredibly fun to use, at first, but the thing is, they just… Suck. They're awful, they're so incredibly bad. They have the most dodgeable projectile in the game that needs to hit three times at a minimum, and their teleport can be entirely stomped by survivors who are a little bit proactive.
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As many issues as I've got with Nemesis' overall design—as far as being an adaptation goes he lacks many defining traits of the character and really runs counter to the source material—I think a third zombie and some more consistency on their part would give him a very fun niche. If zombies detected infected survivors better, treated tentacle hits as loud noises for the purposes of beginning to go that direction, and other such things, it would create a very interesting sort of playstyle, I think. I use perks like Thwack and Discordance to fulfill this purpose right now, and it makes the character far more consistent and fun—so I think he should be less reliant on perks for that.
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@ArkInk said:
That actually really sucks now that I think of it, but tbf we did just get a medieval map with a magic Castle in it. I would've swapped the current and chapter and put Castlevania as the anniversary chapter with a map, but ig BHVR had other plans.
Regardless, Castlevania is hype as an inclusion, and Dracula and the Belmont's are gonna be sweeet.
It is kind of weird that they gave Vecna a map and not Dracula, isn't it? Castlevania is much more known for its location—It's the name of the series, even, when I'm not confident the map for Vecna is even something from any official DnD content.
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There isn't even a chapter to look mid yet.
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Nope. Bad spot, sure, but it's really just that this patch is unplayable. That's really it. I want to be playing, I just can't until the rubberbanding and PotEnergy and Hawkins get fixed and all that.
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I'm of the opinion it's always best to start with whatever character is the most appealing*, regardless of difficulty, because you'll have the drive to keep playing and getting better with that particular character. If that's not a factor, Wraith is pretty good, of course. I think Legion can be good too, being a simple character who also might (*might*) let her notice tendencies in where survivors are without looking at them directly, cultivating a good sense for the macro game.
On that note, I think a killer like the Knight could work very well, as Knight's power is very centered around the macro game and requires skill in both basic chase and map pressure, which can result in learning at a good rate. She'd have to learn how to chase without relying on an M2 attack, and his power would require active thought about things beyond chasing. Plus, Knight is fun and cool.
*Not Nurse. Of course.
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I don't see it being Frank Stone at all until the game has finally come out. There's no reason to release the killer at the same time as or before the game, because the appeal would be that we get to see him in DbD AFTER learning his deal in Casting, after having become familiar with him. I think they're just gonna nail down a date for Casting's release and it's getting a solid part of the anniversary marketing because releasing their first serious installment in the franchise besides DbD itself is pretty huge, you know?
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@JeanGreyarea said:
i suspect another flop chapter if it’s original. Yeah dredge and singularity chapters sucked. If it’s a licensed chapter then it has a chance to be good
"This sucks, actually," they said, about two really good chapters with cool killers.
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I can't believe they're finally adding Vriska Serket to Dead by Daylight. The Nic Cage DLC was always building up to this exact thing, it makes so much sense now.
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I think the consensus is that incapacitated during the transition would be a good change and that the Dream Transposition should stay, both things I agree with. I think that the transition could reasonably be shortened to 4-5 seconds, personally, but that's not the most important thing.
I have doubts BHVR would want to entirely scrap dream snares and pallets, so I think maybe it would be neat if survivors dropped dream snares or summoned dream pallets every once in a while when asleep, passively. If I could get really out there, I'd maybe like for dream snares dropped in this way to be valid teleport positions, but canceling the teleport would have an AI version of Freddy crawl out and chase the survivor for a short time. This dream double wouldn't injure survivors and would just hinder them, I think. Or something like that.