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ad19970
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A lot of killers are indeed strong enough to keep up even without hard tunneling or camping a survivor out of the match.
Tunneling and camping are a problem at a fundamental level, and shouldn't just be addressed with perks. If these changes really end up nerfing tunneling and camping in a significant way, the game would already be in such a better spot.
If killers start struggling too much, then they can still buff killers in different ways as well. But changes to tunneling and camping are absolutely needed. This might finally be the the year where DBD really reaches most of it's potential. Maybe. I am at least somewhat hopeful.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882226#Comment_3882226
singularity sucks. his 3% haste can be shift-w'd because his teleport put him too far away from the target. learn to pallet vacuum and outlast his overdrive. use windows effectively.
Knight is unfun to play with guard exploits & long cooldown on his assassin. Survivors can outplay his assassin guard with exploits.
His carnifex guard can be pallet-chained like on gideon's. pallet spawn too close.
His jailer guard became more add-on dependant on Dried horse meat because of the 2x depletion rate.
both killers need buffs but likely won't get any because of survivor moaning.
In what universe does Singularity suck? If played correctly he can be a menace. Not saying he is overpowered or anything but he surely doesn't suck either.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The most obvious fix to him is the return of his quickscope and smaller terror radius. Hear it from anyone else, they'll say, "OMG, he was so OP back then! Literally unbeatable!" Well, that's not what I saw, from his initial release all the way up until his nerf. What I saw was simply a decent killer who actually had some power in chase, instead of survivors having it all (the standard), and who wasn't seen at all at high level or in tournament, because he was a worse Legion.
It didn't matter that you "Couldn't dodge his shot!" You're not supposed to be able to do that against a killer at all times. You're supposed to be unpredictable so that he wastes too much time waiting for the right time to shoot, or else he'll miss when he does shoot. He's not even guaranteed the shot when he does shoot 1) because the hitbox is absolute trash, like the size of a pea, and 2) because survivors get caught on random stuff and end up breaking out. Even when you reel them in and hit them, the bar is often just about the break the chain. So the counterplay to him used to be extremely fair, basically playing against him like you would Huntress, where you avoid los for as long as possible and then start being unpredictable.
His terror radius also made him a pseudo stealth killer, especially when combined with Monitor, so that survivors couldn't just hold W every time they heard him, like they do Huntress and her lullaby. But despite people not complaining about that before he was nerfed, nowadays they say, "Oh, we can't go back to that. It's OP!" Because God forbid killers strategize and use perks and base abilities together, to not give survivors 20-40 seconds of a free lead on them.
So I don't understand why this killer has been left in this garbage state for so long, or why people push back so much against a killer being decent. Say we did revert the nerfs, or did the OP's suggestions. All of a sudden he'll be unbeatable S tier, better than Nurse and Blight? Because if that's not the outcome, which it won't be, then what's the big deal?
There's no way you believe that the standard is that survivors have all the power in chase, or? The game has more anti-loop killers than M1 killers at this point, and they are pretty strong ones at that. And even against M1 killers survivor don't have all the power anymore considering the increase in mindgameable and unsafe tiles.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878541#Comment_3878541
The potential problem is that Freddy can get map pressure by slugging everyone
Maybe everyone should get git gud at looping almost m1 freddy You will spend less time on the floor and hooks.
If you are asleep his anti-loop is pretty strong. And that doesn't change the fact that his slugging potential might be too good.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Literally just wake up before healing.
I know that. But that wastes time, also indirectly buffing Freddy's slugging potential.
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@Reinami said:
Downing the survivor wakes them up, so only the rescuer needs to use a clock. Furthermore, a freddy would need to teleport damn fast if the person actually recovers first.
I know that, but my fear is that Freddys slugging would still become too good because the rescuer having to wake up wastes time. But your second point is a fair argument, so maybe his slugging won't become too much of a problem. We'll have to wait and see.
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@fussy said:
Yeah, you missed alarm clock.
You didn't read the entire post it seems. I know about the alarm clocks, but having to wake up before picking a slugged survivor up wastes time, which indirectly also buffs Freddy's slugging potential.
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@Crowman said:
It's the survivor learning phase right now.
Survivors aren't used to needing to be awake to heal since before you had to heal first in order to wake up another survivor.
Plus if the survivor who is slugged recovers, then they only need to be tapped up and then you can stop the healing before Freddy has the chance to teleport on you.
Give it a week or two and people will realize that this reworked freddy is not that threatening.
My worry is that even if survivors make sure that they are awake when picking up a survivor, it still makes Freddy's slugging too strong because survivors have to waste time waking up. However, you do make a fair point that if survivors recover fully, Freddy will have very little time to teleport to a survivor picking the slugged survivor up.
So maybe it won't be that bad, we'll have to wait and see.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877595#Comment_3877595
The bigger problem I see is his slugging potential. Unless I overlooked a change to Freddy's ability to teleport to healing survivors, he can still teleport to slugged survivors that are getting healed, which is horrendous game design.
Oh how terrible. the killer is getting map presence and map pressure. Illegal. Also Mint rag Hag has been Instantly teleportation onto hook survivor for years.
Mint rag Make your choice hag is oldest trick in the book and than there is a vast array of killers like Unknown, Billy, Blight that have impressive map mobility to rush hooks after an unhook. these killers doing that. No issue. Freddy? Damn, he's op /s
The potential problem is that Freddy can get map pressure by slugging everyone. Which is insanely unfun to go against. Slugging is already a problem currently, Freddy shouldn't be even stronger at it than most other killers, because slugging shouldn't be encouraged in the first place.
I get it, you never care about the survivor experience. But I for one care about both sides, not just killer.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877609#Comment_3877609
cooldown on canceling is no longer 80% recovery(?). it is full recovery. channel teleport reduces m/s to 3.96. previously 4.6.
The talk was about changes from the ptb to live. Dream Projection was not nerfed from ptb to live, it was buffed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877006#Comment_3877006
pallets still suck. dream projection is nerfed and only relevant part for snares that they buffed got nerfed. BVHR often nerf killers from PTB after doing their rework. I think that when freddy comes to live, nobody will play him and they'll likely revert his cooldown nerf for snares.
How exactly was dream prjection nerfed?
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He can only teleport to you if you are healing and asleep. After you are unhooked, you are always awake. Which means only the survivor who unhooked might be in the dream world. But the survivor that just got unhooked simply can wake up the survivor that unhooked and then Freddy can't teleport to the survivors anymore if they choose to heal.
Of course those are 5 seconds of extra time investment, or 7 if Freddy is using a certain addon, but I don't think it should become too much of a problem. I believe there are other killers that are still better at tunneling as well. Tunneling just needs to be adressed in general.
The bigger problem I see is his slugging potential. Unless I overlooked a change to Freddy's ability to teleport to healing survivors, he can still teleport to slugged survivors that are getting healed, which is horrendous game design.
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@Musxussu575 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874087#Comment_3874087
That's because killer-mains have solidified an iron grip on the game's narrative and dismiss any tiny, minute critique against them as "whining" or "complaining". You guys have absolutely no self-awareness and zero accountability. You genuinely believe you are incapable of playing wrong. Even your extreme defensiveness over this semi-satire post proves that.
Dude just because you declare a certain playstyle as wrong doesn't mean it's actually wrong. In the grand scheme no one cares about what people like you have to say.
And I have no idea how "killer mains" have 0 self-awareness and accountability. That's pretty ironic coming from someone who wants to dictate how others play with a certain killer.
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Damn, your argumentation skills are insane. Mad respect.
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@BroRespectTheBoop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3852415#Comment_3852415
No, but they also shouldnt be completely unsafe to the point that you can't even loop it and its just a "drop it and keep running" scenario with zero ability to mind game the killer.
While this is true, the game is far away from having 90 percent of only such pallets. The majority of pallets in the game are not unsafe.
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@danielmaster87 said:
It never changes, no matter what level you're at. These naysayers keep thinking you're new and just need to improve. Little do they know, it doesn't matter even if that's true, because you're living the same experience as a high level killer. Can't play anyone but Nurse/Blight or else they stand no chance. Most of the people saying killer is fine only look at those 2 killers. It makes no sense, what they say, otherwise.
You're right. The survivors don't even play well, and they just win. Meanwhile, you're sweating the whole time. The moment you chase 1 decent looper, it's over, because there's no-mindgame spots where they always have the advantage at, and waste a guaranteed amount of your time. Time that you can't afford. They're playing meme stuff like multiple exhaustion perks or Urban Evasion, but you've got 4 slowdown perks and it does nothing. I want to go into more detail, but I think most people on this thread have made up their minds. Killers just don't lose if they're good, apparently.
The questionable part here is the claim that it's over if you face one decent looper. How are you not able to mindgame survivors even if they know how to loop? That definitely sounds like you still need to improve some more.
There are plenty of killers with strong chasing abilities with which you can counterplay survivors on most tiles. And the killers that don't have strong chasing abilities often have other abilities that help them with other aspects of the match, leaving a chase in a unfavorable situation is the right play with those killers.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849523#Comment_3849523
How is there no counterplay? Why isn't every killer running this then?
It does have counterplay at the moment in form of leaving loops, but if you buff the duration, that counterplay will become very slim. In my opinion it's just a badly designed perk. Because it either leads to free hits or doesn't do anything.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849523#Comment_3849523
"There is no counterplay". "Dissolution active", survivor: hold W and escape the loop. Sure...
If you hold w you often just get to another loop with a pallet and, depending on the duration of the perk, you'll have the same issue there. Right now Dissolution has some counterplay in form of leaving the loop, but that's it, and the more the duration is buffed, the less often survivors would end up with any counterplay what so ever. That's the problem.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849509#Comment_3849509
I'm just saying that if something interrupts survivor and they spend that much of a time on a single totem (which would be probably replaced by Pentimento) idk how they still have willingness to play such game
It would be nice if totem progress wasn't lost immediately on interruption, that way screams wouldn't be such a detriment to cleansing totems.
I think if a totem takes 30 seconds to cleanse it would still be somewhat beareable, but 46 seconds of cleansing one totem, just to lose all progress on interruption is too much in my opinion.
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Scourge Hook: Jagged compass is one of the best things that came out of this new chapter release. Such a fantastic perk in my opinion, even if you do not run full scourge hook builds. I've only been using it with Pain Resonance so far and it's still a very valuable perk in my opinion.
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I really don't think this perk should be buffed, considering when it procs it removes any form of counterplay the survivor could have. A longer duration would simply mean the likeliness of survivors having 0 counterplay after getting hit would be higher.
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Killer is definitely not easy when going against a good team. You have to be very good with killer to keep up.
With that said, killers do have access to strategies that are a bit too good for the skill required, mainly camping and tunneling. But slugging can also get out of hand. It would be great if BHVR nerfed those strategies so killers would have to play normally to have a better chance at winning.
And if nerfing those strategies would make killer too weak, they could easily buff the fun and healthy strategies for killers as well. It would be nice if spreading hooks was a bit more viable and tunneling and camping was much less viable.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849510#Comment_3849510
That's part of the game when it happens. Not every match is perfect. I don't understand the REAL objective of the gameplay of this game when everyone on both sides poses picture perfect scenarios.
No the problem is that with the new Thrill of the Hunt, Devour Hope activating will happen almost always if the killer is somewhat decent at defending totems. That's the big issue. I always have hated Devour Hope but it never was op to me, because it could be cleansed and countered. But with new Thrill of the Hunt, cleansing Devour Hope has become too hard and unlikely.
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I have been having a decent time with her so far. Her chase is hard to use, but not that bad in my opinion. It has some zoning potential and it's not that crazy rare that I get hits with her dog.
With that said, she definitely needs her bugs sorted out, of which she has way too many. And I agree that aiming her search ability can also be a pain in the ass. And maybe some small number buffs, like inreasing the hitbox of her dog ever so slightly, could also happen. But I just want her to stay fun to go against as well.
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I am sure in the worst case they will just revert the perk back to 10%. I just hope they don't wait long for the change, because 14% is clearly too much.
I kind of wish they would try 11%, and see how that goes. I could see that still being balanced.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849506#Comment_3849506
I mean you don't have to do totems to finish your objective…
Well sure, but if the killer gains instadown after only 3 unhooks, you are never going to finish your objective anyways. So if Devour Hope is in play, you kind of do have to cleanse the totems if you want to win.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434027/the-thrill-of-the-hunt-buff-was-needed
Thrill of the hunt now allows us to keep our totems longer, theyre now actually a threat
If I spend 30 seconds destroying a totem and my progress would be lost in some kind of a way, you can keep your totems for remainder of the trial because I doubt someone would want to play such unfun game.
Didn't Thrill of the Hunt already increase the totem cleanse time to something around 30 seconds when it was at 10%? I think I read somewhere it was 28 seconds or so. I think 30 seconds would still be manageable, but 46 seconds is definitely too much.
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Maybe they can reduce it's value from 14% to 12 or 11 %, but 14% is clearly too much. It shouldn't take 46 seconds to cleanse one totem, that's just too much.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849468#Comment_3849468
win within 5 hooks. it is not impossible. it is more realistic than the killer winning with 12 hooks.
You are joking now right? Your solution to Devour Hope + Thrill of the Hunt is simply escape within 5 hooks?
Not to mention the exposed effect already kicks in after 3 unhooks. Not being able to cleanse Devour Hope is almost always a guaranteed win for the killer.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
I do think after reflection it needs some dialling back, but I think having strong hexes in the meta and perks that support that is OK as an idea and should stay. Hexes should be able to have value in a match and give Survivors something else to do without them feeling like they're a non-issue and that bringing them is a waste of time. What's wrong with unconventional gen control that gives Survs another objective? Hell I'd like to see a perk that creates skillchecks on the totems while cleansing or something maybe, even.
I could see 11% or maybe 12% being fine, but I definitely agree that 14% is too much. 46 seconds for one hex totem is quite crazy, especially since all that progress can simply disappear if you let go or get interrupted.
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Can someone enlighten me which exact build is the problem here?
Edit: Nevermind it seems to be Hex builds in general.
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@Wearevenom1484 said:
he’s awful. Your post reads like it was written by a marketing team trying to convince me something thats really awful is good.
what use is stalking from afar? He has no ability to catch up, and once you spend the time to close the gap you’ve wasted your limited power and time you “saved” stalking from distance to do so.
No anti-loop, no ability to deal with pallets outside of brutal, no map pressure and now we can’t even run iri addons without getting punked.
tier 1 is still terrible if you try to run scratched mirror and Vanity mirror is worse because you can’t stalk up close without it taking a generation to get to tier 2.
Who are you trying to fool here?Damn, someone is mighty challenged by differing opinions it seems.
It seems like op simply has had a different experience with Myers. I too believe that he isn't weaker than he was before, but stronger. How much stronger is hard to tell though. Maybe he could use a small buff or so, maybe it's not needed.
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Pretty positive the changes you suggest here would nuke Singularity into oblivion. Not being able to destroy emp'd pods and having to wait 5 seconds after placing a pod before you can slipstream a survivor would be awful, and absolutely feel awful to play as.
I guess I wouldn't be against some number tweaks maybe, like having EMP's progress a bit further on their own so you have to spend a little less time to retrieve them, and a nerf to his soma family photo addon, but other than that he seems fine to me. There is definitely some counterplay for survivors to prolong chases and waste time so other survivors can work on gens.
I also fail to see how he doesn't require much skill. He definitely has a fairly high skill floor and very high skill ceiling if you ask me. And it seems that most of the community agrees with that sentiment.
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847736#Comment_3847736
I like to correct you on one thing…the issue isn't that she has a high skill ceiling, it's the fact she has a high skill floor with little reward. There are killers in this game that have a high skill ceiling but a decent skill floor where anyone can easily pick them up and learn them while also having fun with them and feel good about it. Take Wesker for exp, he has a mid-skill floor but also a high skill ceiling. Even then it isn't like she going to be the next nurse or something, at best if you can master her you most likely have a high b - low A tier killer on your hands.
Either way, Im disappointed bc I wanted to like this killer SO much but my games have been so rough and unfun…I starting to feel like it may not be worth my time to learn her bc its going to take so long to even get to her skill floor. That is why I say she has an issue, her skill floor needs to be brought down some. I know lot of ppl talk about a killer's skill ceiling a lot but that's not the only important thing, skill floor matters as well.
You are right about her skillfloor. It definitely is very high. Maybe they can bring it down a bit, but hopefully in a way that still makes her fair and fun to go against. Because I really do believe she already has quite a bit of potential.
In my opinion, before they buff her though, they should fix the bugs that she still has.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847631#Comment_3847631
is this bait or a major skill issue Houndmaster is literally the worst killer in the game atm
While she is nowhere near overpowered, people also seem to underestimate her. She is not the worst killer in the game, she just has a high skill ceiling.
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I am surprised to hear how often this happens to some people. In my killer matches I don't get survivors that give up very often at all. In my last 20 matches or so I had it happen once. Sometimes it does happen at higher frequency no doubt, but definitely not almost every game.
Most of the time I just play the game out normally though to be done with it, farming is super boring to me.
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I don't know, it doesn't seem that small to me. It can't be too big either because survivors should have a fair chance at dodging the dog.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846818#Comment_3846818
I would agree that it is too early to tell how strong or weak she is. I think she is at least decent, she is not a bad Killer at all.
However, what I can already tell is that she is not really fun to play for me. And while I faced a lot of Houndmasters today (way more than previous Killer-releases), I dont really think she will be that popular after a few days, because she is kinda boring to play.
That's definitely fair. I could see many people not having that much fun with her. But I for one actually enjoyed my time with her quite a bit, I like her gameplay personally. It's just her bugs that already got under my skin a bit.
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I think it's too early to tell how strong she is balance wise, because of her high skill ceiling. But she definitely has bugs that make her weaker than she should be, those need to be fixed.
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@fixblitzskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846778#Comment_3846778
He’s one dude. Not an accurate way to determine if it was a buff or nerf
To be fair, I am really not sure if these forums here are always such an accurate way to determine if a change was a buff or nerf either. Especially this early on.
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I think it's way too early to tell how good she actually is, considering her high skill ceiling. I hope BHVR waits a bit before adding more balance changes to her because of that.
With that said, she does seem to still suffer from some bugs, which hopefully will get fixed soon.
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@Kl0bürste said:
blight is ######### ######### and i hope he gets buffed soon. He is slow as #########, without his hugtech he is useless in most loops, his collision is awful and he is buggy as #########. Worst killer in the game
You necro'd this post twice for that? And no, Blight is still one of the strongest killers in this game. He doesn't need hug tech to be a strong killer, not at all. He can just be counterplayed at loops a bit more effectively now, which is a good thing. Blight doesn't need to be busted.
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@IHasDan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846485#Comment_3846485
Hawkins on this killer is actually miserable, can't imagine lerys is fun either.
I had a ridiculous match on RPD. There were even a few times where the dog didn't even start chasing along the shown path and just got stuck on something. She is really bad on indoor maps and still quite buggy if you ask me.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846104#Comment_3846104
This is patently false.
Definitely not
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846303#Comment_3846303
Yeah, even in solo queue with no comms all you need to be cooking with gas is 3 good teammates. Not god-tier teammates, just good.
Of course, the problem is that MMR rarely gives that to you. But the "you need to be on Seal Team 6 to win" stuff is laughable.
Yup matchmaking is definitely part of the problem. Though I fear it's not the problem exclusively when looking at the lack of skill of teammates. I really think the game needs a much better tutorial for survivors that actually teaches the fundamentals on how to play effectively.
Too many survivors just don't know how to play the game effectively, and you can't really blame them, considering how hard it is to get started with the game and learn it.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846108#Comment_3846108
If you need a perfect team, using discord call outs then the game has serious problems. It's actually an exaggeration to say that is fine.
You don't need a perfect team though. A good team can keep up with a good killer.
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@mecca said:
That is what happens in a horribly balanced game. Survivor is not playable in 1v4 unless you are a 4 man with no life. This is all thanks to killer mains and the devs following dictation.
Huge exaggeration. Survivor is surely still playable, a good team can still win even against very good killers, as long as the killer isn't Nurse.
Solo survivors could definitely use some improvements though. And matchmaking could also see some improvements, but that's besides the point of balance.
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In my opinion they should have gone the other direction, buffing this perk by removing the exposed effect. I don't see how this perk is going to be useful in 95% of matches.
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@Autharia said:
I think they moved from the mostly killer sided forums to the completely killer sided Reddit for feedback.
No offense but these forums here have stopped being killer sided quite a while ago. I see equally amount of killer biased and survivor biased people on these forums nowadays.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3844647#Comment_3844647
what makes it fun?
it trivializes or outright removes most of the exciting parts of this game like chase or overall game strategy. in chase there's too many resources while killers always have an option to group up to remove any chance you have to last. I ran into a bunch of deathslinger abusers and this isn't enjoyable in the slightest.
On killer side, despite all the ######### you can do, you still can't stop generators from being completed as they take very little time investment to be done, are often doubled&tripled and to add insult to injury survivors also have a class that can ramp up gen speeds even further.
Catch up mechanic that exists for both sides is unsurprisingly unimpactful. It makes the bar red or yellow which is funny, I guess, but that's about it. +-5% for each gen / hook is not having any visible effect.
Despite the fact there are two killers, you get twice as little action because they rarely commit (unless they're from really low mmr) by themselves and drop chase the moment they see anyone else unless you're a really easy target, while all you do otherwise is hold m1 on gens, run up to cages that conveniently spawn near you or heal.
Nothing in this gamemode feels rewarding or earned, you just play very dumbed down, unmanageable, uneventful and unbalanced (some-#########-how) version of the game.
I guess people like power tripping or are that desperate to play with their friend on killer because I don't see the appeal otherwise. If the base game was just like that, I wouldn't have played it for 8 years.
Believe it or not, but people exist with opinions that don't match yours.
You might have certain problems with this mode but others maybe not. I would say it's the chaos and new classes that are pretty fun for survivors, and the ability to not play alone as well as the constant occupation of chase that are fun for killer.
I personally enjoyed playing survivor quite a bit thanks to the chaos, and that there is a lot going on no matter what. Being double tapped by killers might not be that much fun, but otherwise, getting chased by the killer is also very fun in 2vs8, even if killers commit less in that mode.
And for killer as mentioned, it's just nice to be able to play killer alongside someone else, and more survivors means there is even more interaction with survivors in 2vs8.