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ad19970
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Nah, the fifth is when everything is happening. Murican time.
@Marc_go_solo said:
I think they said it was happening this Wednesday a few days back, so no delay as far as I am aware; going ahead as scheduled.
@dugman said:
Monday January 4th was a holiday for many companies this year. That probably threw their release schedule this week off a day.
@GoodBoyKaru said:
wednesday, as confirmed by @MandyTalk yesterday
Ok thanks for the clarification.
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Lmao let's wait and see. More meta perks are always a good thing.
Maybe they could come up with another sort of condition if it proves to be too problematic. Like having to be in a certain range of the gen as killer in order for it to get blocked. But then low mobility killers would probably not get any use out of the perk.
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People disagreeing with each other, or more extremely, calling each other names isn't a phenomenon exclusive to DBD or these forums. Nor is this something new with this forum.
Every update that has noticeable balance changes, some people will complain about certain changes and others will complain about people complaining about these changes. In most cases, balance changes that some people were concerned about, didn't end up being bad, and in a few cases, they did end up being problematic.
But I fail to see how the people trying to downplay concerns or just arguing against concerns will drive more people away. And this certainly isn't some kind of mass bullying or anything like that. If the majority of people disagree with some opinion, then they will surely also voice their disagreement.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2730269#Comment_2730269
Dude, you need to calm down.
Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
While you might only care about balancing changes, BHVR values thematics and design intention.
Looking at the discussions around Trickster's Main Event, and the Developer's desire to build up to a crescendo with his power, we can reason that Nemesis is designed with a similar power curve in mind. Nemesis is not supposed to be super strong early in the trial--his Tier-system is an intentional design choice, as is the limited number of antidotes.
Early in the trial, survivors can shrug off an infection by picking up an antidote, and pallets can actually be used to put some distance between the survivor and the killer. As the trial goes on, Nemesis grows in power--quite literally as he Tiers up, and by proxy of a deminishing number of antidotes remaining in the trial.
Marvin's Blood completely negates the thematic intentions of Nemesis' design, and provides players with an underwhelming shortcut to the finish line.
I agree with that, the nerf to Marvin's Blood is fine. But Mikhail's Eye? That one doesn't make any sense to me.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727557#Comment_2727557
What do you say now?
There's still the possibility it will be nerfed and just wasn't mentioned. However, yes, complaints about CoH are more than understandable. It's a busted perk that takes way too much pressure from the killer away. It's ridiculous.
However, crying like an 8 year old and acting like BHVR only makes changes that pleases survivors won't get you anywhere. Why do so many people have such difficulties expressing their criticism or frustration without turning into a whine head that sees themselves almost as victims?
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Some of his addons need to be toned down a bit. That's it. Blight at base is not op, he is arguably the most balanced killer in the game for high level play.
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Some changes I get, but I agree, others don't make sense at all. Like the Mikhail's eye nerf. Is it so hard for them to understand that most of Nemesis addons are just bad? And especially after they buffed his red addon that now increases zombie movement speed by 150%, the nerf to Mikhail's eye makes zero sense to me. Unless they want to increase the base movement speed of zombies, which I highly doubt.
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@Dino7281 said:
I probably don't count, when I don't play for a while, but some perks will be fun to test for sure.
Well, mainly Gearhead, Furtive Chase and Dead Man’s Switch.
Dead Man’s Switch might be really good slow-down perk combined with Pain Resonance.
I really hope they don't nerf the duration of Dead Man's Switch, then it would definitely actually be a good perk. Really excited to test that perk.
I also didn't think of that combo yet, could be pretty strong. Hope it won't need a nerf.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729848#Comment_2729848
The developers do not want killers to compete at the highest level because they hand hold potato survivors. That's who the game is balanced around. Same reason they nerfed pinheads eng fang. The game is ######### joke at the moment at high mmr. Killer gets 2-3 hooks and games lasting 4 minutes then tbag at exit gates. I hate how the devs coddle survivors in this game.
That first sentence of yours already makes 0 sense. If they wanted to hand hold potato survivors, why nerf killers so they don't compete at the highest level? Pretty sure potato survivors don't play there.
Camping and tunneling are two of the biggest problems for less experienced survivor players. Nothing has been done about that in many years. I also hope you realise that a large amount of people that play this game aren't that experienced. Certainly not among the top level players. The game needs to be balanced around those people as well, not only, but also.
This game certainly has it's balance issues, especially at high level play, with gens going fast and maps being badly balanced. But it's not a problem of BHVR only caring about survivors.
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@gendoss said:
Or just play the game normally and get a 75% kill rate handed to you like the average killer.
75% kill rate? Where is that coming from?
At high level play, the game is survivor sided. Gens go very fast, and there are a lot of survivor sided maps in this game. That's at least for the average killer. Of course, when looking at Blight or Nurse, using their best addon and perk builds, a completely different story is painted.
But in general the game is tilted to survivor. It's also not helpful that two of the most useful strategies on the killers side is camping, or at least proxy camping, and tunneling. They are definitely not always the best strategies, but they are the best in a fair amount of situations. Which is just not fun.
@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2728482#Comment_2728482
These stats are for all ranks, including babies who just started the game, not the average experienced player who we should be assuming we're talking about. That basically mirrors the old stats that were for ALL players so we can assume it has not actually changed.
Also like 5 new killer meta perks came out in the last year alone. Literally the only new meta perk for survivor that has come out since basically launch is possibly CoH. Even then it has so many downsides I'd hardly call it meta.
Also, you realise that it's especially in low ranks where the kill rate is actually higher than normal? And especially higher than in high rank?
And CoH is more than just a meta perk. It's just op, since it takes so much pressure away from killers. The meta perks killers got aren't on that same level.
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I don't even understand why they are nerfing Pinky Finger. Clown himself is very weak, that addon is arguably the only thing that makes him somewhat viable at the highest level of play.
And I really do find it kind of hilarious that not even Alchemist Ring is getting nerfed. However, they have stated that there might be some changes in the upcoming patch that haven't been mentioned in the update. And I surely do hope so. I am still playing this game at the moment, too frequently honestly, but I am really, really getting sick and tired of CoH. If that perk doesn't get nerfed in the upcoming patch, I will probably play the game much less, or just take a break from it again.
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@Impartiality said:
Killers were also non stop crying for something to stop gens going so fast. Boons is the one thing added that does this and they still just complain. It doesn’t matter what BHVR do there will always be complaints here
That's just completely false. The idea of boons is that survivors now have another objective they can do instead of gens. But first of all, it's optional, not a mandatory second objective.
And second of all, it still arguably wastes more time of a killer to get rid of the boon totem than for a survivor to boon a totem, depeding on where the boon totem is located. Because there is only one killer but four survivors.
However, the big problem here is Circle of Healing. The time wasted to boon a totem is nothing compared to the time it saves for survivors when they heal each other. CoH buys survivors so much more extra time and takes a lot of the killers potential pressure away, the extra objective of booning a totem is nothing compared to that.
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@MrCalac123 said:
They claim to care about hate but allow clicking and tbagging which exist purely to make the Killer feel bad.
Bullshit, BHVR.
Tbagging and clicking really isn't the same. Not to mention that now everyone does that to provoke the killer.
Yes, the clicking in particular is just annoying, but again, not on the same level. Also, what are they supposed to do against that? I guess they could get rid of the click sound of the flash light, at least on the killer side. But against tbagging?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729265#Comment_2729265
Honestly, this discussion is so December 2020, it is just boring. Once again someone overreacts because of a Perk Buff. Classical DBD-Forum.
There is an actual argument here though. The question is if swf survivors that are coordinated enough could be able to make it so that you pretty much can't pick up a survivor at all, since they all just go down at pallets, and have at least one swf buddy near them, so you either pick the survivor up immediately, and get pallet stunned, or you try and get rid of the other survivor, and then pick up the downed survivor, allowing them to use power struggle.
Or you go after the other survivor that was waiting for a pallet save, but then they could get to another pallet, and the cycle begings again. It doesn't matter how frequently a perk gets proper use, even if it is still weak for 99% of survivor teams, as long as the few swf survivor teams, that know how to use the perk, will be able to prevent the killer from picking up any survivor, it could become a problem. I sure know that I have no interest in playing a killer match where I do not have any counterplay. It's already bad enough as it is with the fast gen times, bad map design, and the busted CoH perk now.
The question is of course how likely it is to pull off multiple power struggle plays, so that the killer can't really get any hooks at all, and repair gens at the same time. It seems unlikely to me that it will actually become a problem even against coordinated, skilled swf survivor teams, compared to swf survivors teams just using meta builds, but the concern I would argue is understandable.
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So just the invulnerability frames, without the distance? Cause I am pretty sure no one would use Dead Hard if that was the case. Good killers generally just wait out the Dead Hard if it's only used for dodging a hit. So with a nerf like this, survivors would need insane luck with timing to ever get this perk work against good killers just once.
So they would all end up just switching over to Sprint Burst. Or another exhaustion perk.
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I guess it depends on how they nerf camping, how hard they nerf it, and if they nerf proxy camping as well.
I do agree that gen speeds would probably need to be looked at as well, in the same patch. Or some form of second objective, because no one actually wants longer gen times.
The problem though is that we do have killers with their certain builds that can keep up with even the best of survivors, and that without camping. So if survivors objective times get increased, those killers will also need to be nerfed a bit. Nurse and Blight are the main candidates here.
But the deeper you go, the more you realise how much more needs to be balanced. There is a huge balance gap between the most survivor sided and killer sided map for example. A second objective will in this case also just shift the balance of maps a bit more towards killer.
This game's balance sadly is just a bit of a mess.
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I mean, I do agree that nerfing Pinhead just based on the early kill rates of him isn't wise. But I wouldn't say that was the only reason they nerfed Pinhead. Especially Engineer's fang was complained about a lot. Understandably.
I also don't agree that he is weak now. But against really good survivors he will struggle a lot most of the time. The biggest problem I have with Pinhead is that too much of Pinhead's power lies within his passive. His passive is too strong, and his chase too weak. Of course it's good that Pinhead actually has fair counterplay in chases, that shouldn't go away. Survivors can dodge Pinhead's chains, and they can break his chains on objects, however, the second counterplay right now can be too strong, making is chase potential too inconsistent.
I am kind of puzzled though when you say that you'll just go back to Doctor and Myers and 4K every game. Or is that some kind of sarcasm I don't get?
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Wait a minute, DS still hasn't been nerfed again? They nerfed it not too long ago for like the 4th time, having it deactivate on most actions. What on earth? DS is fine now.
The devs aren't survivor sided. Just because the game isn't too well balanced doesn't mean the devs are survivor sided. They honestly just struggle with the game's balance, that's it.
At lower ranks, the game is arguably killer sided. Unlike high ranks, where it's rather survivor sided. So just "buffing" killers could very easily become a big problem for this game.
And if these devs really were so survivor sided, why on earth would camping and tunneling still be such viable strategies? It's incredibly unfun to go against, especially camping.
And not to forget the fact that killer players do have options to keep up with the strongest survivors if they use their strongest options. Blight, Nurse, Spirit, paired with the best addons and perks.
This game used to be incredibly survivor sided, and I would argue at high ranks, the game still hasn't fully recovered from that. It has come a long way since, though sadly, it has become a bit more survivor sided again recently, because of Circle of Healing, validation, and a few bad map reworks. But that's again just the balance team screwing up.
The fact that people still think the devs have a huge bias towards one side is baffling to me.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2712666#Comment_2712666
Please can we because all I read from OPs post is the same old nerf making a moderately above average perk completely useless....but that's what survivors want right....all killer perks completely useless while get theirs buffed.....or am I just being silly.
Well if you think that all survivor mains want killer perks to be useless, because they all have the same opinions for whatever reason, then I would argue you are being a bit more than just silly.
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@Hyuu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2459594#Comment_2459594
Oh yeah dont forget that the "Great wall of china" can literally be hit through if the survivor is close enough to it. Killer mains whine so much about maps and then refuse to point out the actual broken ######### in it that helps them
I am not going to ask why you replied to a 4 month old comment, but killer mains do have reasons to complain about map design in this game. Way, way too many maps in this game are still survivor sided.
Also, regarding the wall of china, you said it yourself, killers can hit survivors over the fence only when they are close enough to it. So they just shouldn't be too close, and then they can just run around the fence and waste a ton of the killers time. It's 0 skill but can hurt killer a lot. Haddonfield is incredibly survivors sided, with it's huge size, safe pallet loops, and very strong structures for survivors, especially the house with the basement, which is just so beyond busted.
It's true that there is a fair amount of killer mains on this forum that at least seem to just whine about everything, and are sore losers. But there is definitely good reason to complain about map design. With the current gen times that we have in this game, many maps right now are just too big, and have too many safe structures for survivors.
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Blight can seem op with certain exploits and his alchemist ring addon. And certain perk combos can be very strong.
But he himself is completely fine, one of the few killers that can compete against the highest mmr survivors. If anything, I wish the devs would finally fix his buggy collision, but I have pretty much given up hope for that at this point.
The Artist is strong, but definitely not op. She can't be looped on many of the game's loops, but she definitely does have counterplay.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2709406#Comment_2709406
And that is exactly what should happen.
Nerf to face-camping and tunneling-off-hook, with a simultaneous nerf to gen speeds. No new perks to Band-Aid-fix the problem.
I think a 5 second "Sprint Burst" from hook would be an excellent way to fix the tunneling-off-hook. Maybe some type of Borrowed-Time effect mixed in for Face-Camping.
I agree 100%. But I do think that would require a lot of work. On the other hand, BHVR has had lots of time for that by now. I still have hopes that the game will see these balance changes some day. But I am not that optimistic anymore.
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I understand your frustration, camping and tunneling are indeed a problem of DBD, but they are just part of fundamental problems this game has. Tunneling and camping are too effective, sadly, but right now the game also has the issue that survivors can on average complete their objective faster than killers. And sadly, the way the game is balanced right now, camping and tunneling can often be the best strategy to win a match. This does depend on the situation of a match though.
This game would definitely benefit from a nerf to camping and tunneling, but that can not happen without a nerf to survivors objective, in my opinion at least.
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So your solution to nerfing CoH is to make it literally garbage tier? Like why on earth would anyone use this perk if it was a subpar self care? I don't get it.
CoH sticks out as THE op perk in this game right now, I agree with that, and it makes killers life even harder than it already was. With this perk it's just even harder for killers to retain some proper map pressure, which is bad, considering how fast survivors can already complete their objective. But making it useless isn't the solution here.
They need to nerf the healing speed increase as well as the self healing speed from 100% to something like 75%.
And maybe they could increase the time it takes to boon a dull totem from 14 to 16 seconds, making it slightly more worthwhile to snuff out totems. But that's it. It would be a shame to lose another perk out of the meta and reduce the amount of meta perks again.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Killer mains are hypocrites. Way worse than entitled survivor mains.
The fact that people actually think you can just generalize mains of a certain role and then say one side is much worse than the other is so hilarious to me.
Both sides have their toxic, entitled players. And both sides can have hypocrites as well.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675032#Comment_2675032
Yeah, really. They're good points and they can't be argued with.
Ok i am just surprised, it's not what I am used to, especially on this forum.
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I'm happy with his addon nerfs honestly. I think in particular the addon that reduces the aura range of the box and the addons that increased solving time were hurting solo survivors a lot.
However, I do wish they would further help solo survivors a bit, by maybe having all survivors auras that are within 24 meters of the box, or something like that, be shown to all other survivors on the map. This way solo survivors could better judge whether they should go for the box or not.
And then, they could buff Pinhead's chase potential, the aspect of him that takes a lot of skill, by making his chains more consistent, and maybe also rewarding him with additional chains for long range shots.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671931#Comment_2671931
Yeah you're right. You've changed my mind. :)
Wait really? Or sarcasm?
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@Adjatha said:
For those not aware of the numbers involved, let's be clear:
- It takes a survivor 1 second per chain to shake off their chains
- It takes .75 seconds for Pinhead to engage the first person view of the chain after setting the portal
- It takes 1.5 seconds for Pinhead to recover from using his chains and being able to move again.
- Two chains reduce survivor movement to 1.69, one chain to 2.26
So: If a survivor is running forward at the standard 4 m/s, pinhead stops for .75 seconds to go into the chain, takes a variable amount of time to land a hit with it, but let's say 0.25 seconds. The killer then recovers in 1.5 seconds and the survivor breaks free in 2 seconds, giving Pinhead a grand total of 0.87m advantage to catch up over the 0.5 seconds his power is actually slowing the survivor while he can move.
That's roughly 1/2 the bonus Clown gets for hitting you with a bottle, to say nothing of the gas sticking around, hitting multiple survivors, being easier to aim, and not being arbitrarily disabled by random spawn locations.
So, Pinhead's main power at -1 chain is a worse, harder to use, more punishing, single-target CLOWN.
If anyone tells you that the new Engineer's Fang nerf isn't that bad, well they simply don't understand math.
The argument is that even with this much weaker slowdown, the addon is still worth it, because injuring survivors immediately with the chain is inredibly strong.
The addon was busted before the nerf.
I used engineers fang with the meme addon before its nerf and it still felt pretty damn strong. The two chains were occasionally helpful at loops as well, but of course you can‘t really use the chain to gain distance on survivors with this addon anymore.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
Man PTB really is worthless, isn't it? Day of PTB everyone including content creators screamed she was amazing, super strong, possibly S tier, needs serious toning down etc. Then she releases and now everyone is saying she's terrible. Then again, people have said that about every character released in the past 2 years.
I wouldn't say everyone is saying she is terrible. People like me have realised that she has more counterplay than we thought after ptb, which is a good thing. But I feel like most people still agree that she is actually pretty strong.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671820#Comment_2671820
You're being disingenuous. Obviously there's a cue while they're flying. That's not a recourse.
How am I being disingenious? I was already able to dodge crows multiple times after hearing the audio queue. It's possible. And if you don't manage to dodge, you just move off the gen, and repel crows, it takes 8 seconds. That's how she gains some map pressure. This game doesn't need yet another killer with barely any map pressure and just good anti-looping potential. That's not enough for a killer to be viable at high mmr.
I can see why people would want a bit more counterplay against her at short range, when looping her. But at long range, she has enough counterplay. It's very hard to hit a moving survivor that is further away and that you have no line of sight on. Survivors can repel crows to not get injured by the next crow swarm. Nerfing her range would just mean holding w would become better against her, while looping her would still be very difficult to do. I don't think most people would want that.
If anything, her anti loop potential should be toned down a bit by giving survivors a bit of counterplay at loops, even when she has line of sight on the survivor, and her range capabilities should be buffed slightly, so her map pressure would become slightly better and her more skillful and interesting playstyle, hitting survivors at long ranges, would also become a bit more viable, making holding w not quite as strong against her.
She is not op. This game needs incentives for people to play killer as well. It surely doesn't need less killer players.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671674#Comment_2671674
Cool. Do that first, then we'll talk.
I think if they first buff all killers to arguably the level of Spirit or even Blight, then it's the queue times for killers that will most likely increase. And that noticeably. Way too much I would guess.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671682#Comment_2671682
Killers tunneling+camping is not THE problem. It is a symptom of the real disease. Which is survivors are too powerful when they know how to play. The entire reason killers tunnel and camp is unless your using the 2 meta killers it is impossible to get 12 hooks before they repair 5 gens. Unless they screw up. Which decent survivors never do. This game is designed to only function if the survivors make mistakes or do not gen rush. It doesn't matter how well you play killer. If both sides perform optimally the killer will always lose because they are out numbered.
Then the devs keep balancing the game around newbie survivors. Giving them even more tools to win. They need to put their foot down and tell survivors "git gud. Your not suppose to be able to beat the killer in a 1v1". You can't tell me survivors are not the favored child. Ruin+Undying was a thing for like 3 months before they nerfed it. DS took 4 years! Last chapter more killers were nerfed yet boons were not touched.
Most killers actually don't like tunneling because they feel the same if that was done to them. But they do it because they need to remove someone asap to stand a chance at high mmr. It's very common for 3 gens to pop by the time you can down 1 person. Killers need a snow ball effect to recover from that.
I would argue camping and tunneling are two of the main problems this game has. They aren't just a symptom of the real disease. Even if this game was perfectly balanced, there would still be people that resort to camping and tunneling because they don't like to be beaten by better players.
Camping and tunneling need to be nerfed, but not without also addressing the reason why camping and tunneling is sometimes a necessity of course. Which is survivors short objective time and/or bad map design.
I still don't believe that no killer has a chance against a top level survivor team, but of course, it takes a strong killer and a balanced map for the killer to have a chance of winning as well. And arguably most of the times tunneling and camping as a strategy. And if survivors all stack up on second chance perks and items, things can look pretty grim, even for strong killers. But on the other hand, I also don't believe that there are as many unwinnable matches for killers as some people would argue. Some matches can just feel unwinnable, because as killer you sometimes don't get much feedback on what you could have done better, and just a few mistakes or outplays of a survivor can have a huge impact on a match.
I also don't think you can generalise one role here is the "favored child". Problem is, at lower mmr, killers are arguably stronger than survivors. And balancing around those ranks is also important in this game. Not to mention that yes, DS got nerfed after 4 years. Though to be fair it got nerfed many times, the last nerf was 4 years later. On the other hand, Mettle of Man got nerfed after three months as well.
This game honestly needs some big, fundamental changes to become more balanced and more fun for all ranks. And I am not sure if the devs will manage to do so.
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I have had the luck until now to barely ever go against a hacker. At least an obvious one. There have been matches where I wondered in the end if I went against a cheater using only suddle cheats. But that's it.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671182#Comment_2671182
There are a few problems.
1) Her TR is subtle enough it's basically a free Monitor and Abuse.
2) She charges unlimited range attacks with no warning. There needs to be a ping or a cue to counter it.
3) She is literally picking apart every single solo team I've been on by randomly casting crows. I can't even win hatch matches against her.
So far I've beaten one Artist and lost every single other match badly. I haven't lost this many rounds to a single killer since Twins was all the rage and it wasn't even this bad.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671184#Comment_2671184
No we really don't. She is single handedly ruining the game for me and many others I know. The playerbase is in the honeymoon phase with her, in two weeks I anticipate a massive decline. I'm thinking about uninstalling again even though the Halloween event roped me back in after a year long hiatus.
Ok well I haven't had the same experience the few times I went against her.
And there is a clear audio queue everytime she sends her crows flying. So there not being any warning is simply not true. There is enough warning.
If you and others you know are struggling with countering the Artist at long ranges, then that means you just have to improve against her more. It's also not like it's likely for her to get a follow up hit on you when you are swarmed and are moving around. Plus it only takes 8 seconds to repel a crow, that's it.
But as far as I can tell, she is not ruining the game for most people. And I am pretty sure the most common complaint about her is how good she can shut down loops, and get guaranteed hits when she has line of sight on a survivor. Not her range.
There have been a fair amount of survivor teams that won against me, and surely they weren't all swf survivors.
I am not against further changes to her, but honestly, if anything needs a nerf, it's her ability to shut down loops too well, and that as well is very debateable. Plus any nerf to her would need some compensation buff as well. She is strong, not op. This game needs more strong killers. People that play killer want to have fun as well. Or it will just have less and less people that play killer. I also think that at the moment, this game can afford losing a few survivor players more than it can afford losing killer players.
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She is strong in my opinion, but luckily not op. If you expect a survivor to run away from a loop, you could try to fake placing a bird and then catch them easier that way.
Holding w is definitely the most effective strategy against her in many cases, but she still has the potential to hit a survivor at far ranges, it‘s just harder to do. But her potential to shut down loops alone makes her a fairly strong killer.
She is balanced in my opinion, although i do believe that a few changes could further improve her gameplay, and that of survivors going against her. But i have enjoyed the few matches against her so far.
Also, the new scourge hook perk is amazing in my opinion. An actual, new and viable perk alongside other slowdown perks. Of course that perk is affected by rng a bit as well. But I think it sits well between ruin and pgtw when it comes to its rng and effectiveness.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297313/we-100-need-built-in-anti-tunnel
Sigh.
Okay.
Let me see if I can explain this.
'Tunneling' doesn't exist. What you are describing is just the meta.
The way this game works, for the most part (excepting endgame builds etc.) is by The Rule of 3. If only 3 survivors remain alive by the time 3 gens are done, the killer usually gets at least a 3k.
If there are more than 3 survivors alive at 3 gens, the killer usually gets a 0-1k. DbD, by it's very nature, is snowbally.
Once you get into even intermediate MMRs, you'll see that trying to 2 hook everyone before killing is a near guaranteed way to get teabagged all the way to the exit by 4 survivors. The killer absolutely has to try to delete someone as soon as possible, so that they don't just get bum-rushed on the final gens and can effectively contest the gates. And when a chance comes to down someone - they need to take it.
Now, as per your case:
- Why are you complaining about killers, when it was one of your own teammates that did you dirty? The killer was doing what they should do. I'd probably have given you a break if you had a silly/trolly teammate - but I'm under no obligation whatsoever to do so.
- 'Built in anti-tunnel' would be ridiculous. You'd have to substantially increase gen times or buff the pants off almost every killer in the game to compensate. Again, if 4 survivors are alive on the last few gens, you've lost.
- If you are worried about being tunneled, you have multiple anti-tunnel perks at your disposal.
- If a killer is able to follow you for 12 seconds after an unhook, you've been massively outplayed.
I get that you had a frustrating match, but again - one of your teammates let you down. Complain about that, if you have to complain about something.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668869#Comment_2668869
Whatever happened to Sluzzy?
Haven't seen her since a red shut down one of her threads.
Tunneling isn't always the best strategy. But it is the best strategy too often, that's for sure.
It's still tunneling though, that's what this strategy is called. Even if it sometimes is the best strategy to keep up with good survivors.
And it certainly is a problem in DBD, as it's extremely unfun to go against. But as you have already pointed it out, it's tied to the problem of fast gens as well. It's DBD's more general problem of having the least fun strategies to go against often be the best strategies.
Something should be done about camping and tunneling, but also about fast survivor objective times, or perhaps map design.
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I definitely agree with you. We need some base kit implementations that discourages tunneling and camping.
The problem is that this game isn't in a state where this can be implemented at the moment. Because survivors can complete their objective so fast, since gen times are not very long at all. Playing killer can be very stressful, and right now, there are simply situations in DBD where tunneling or camping a survivor is the best strategy to do, and the only right strategy in order to win a match. If you take that away, than there will be more situations and matches where a killer player will feel like they had no chance of winning. And this problem already exists in DBD.
DBD just has a general problem of having the most unfun strategies to go against, be the most effective strategies way too frequently.
Plus on a side not, if you got farmed by a survivor, the bigger problem there is that you got farmed by a survivor, not necessarily the tunneling strategy itself.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670740#Comment_2670740
They get a 100% healing bonus pretty much the entire match. Whats the difference? They cleanse, we cleanse, the cycle of totems would remain largely the same.
No, a general 30% repair speed decrease almost the entire match long would be too strong. It affects all survivors on the entire map, and not just a certain area. Not to mention that survivors have to find the totem first, and then cleanse the totem, which takes 14 seconds, while the killer needs like 1 second to rekindle the totem.
Not to mention the fact that I believe the majority of people agree that CoH is overpowered anyways. So I don't think one overpowered perk justifies another overpowered perk.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671189#Comment_2671189
Wait, what?
I have never said it should be possible to do it more than once...
How it works is fine, if they fix bugs with it.
EDIT: oh, I see how it happened
Yeah, it would be broken.
Yeah ok, if you weren't actually arguing that you should be able to rekindle totems an infinite amount of times, then some misunderstanding happened here. I thought you were talking about that, but I also didn't realise you weren't the person I first replied to, who seemed to suggest that totems should be rekindable an infite amount of times, like Boon totems.
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I don't get it, your argumentation is that survivors won't get to use DS anyways when they bless a totem before. So why exactly then is it bad that it deactivates when you bless a totem? Because following your logic, DS never gets used anways after blessing a totem.
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I do agree with one thing. The gameplay between her and survivors isn't as dynamic as it could be. Her zoning is very strong, and if she has line of sight on survivors while cornering survivors at a loop, she will get a guaranteed hit against that survivor. if a survivor is far enough away from a dire crow though, they can dodge the crows if they predict when she is going to fire her crows properly.
Breaking line of sight against her is very important, as long as she can't see a survivor, she can't know when exactly a survivor crosses the flight path of a dire crow. This gives you the potential to dodge her crows.
Her slowdown is indeed enough in order to try and get to run away from a loop to get to somewhere else as well, but of course this part is somewhat map dependent. Again, line of sight blockers are often your best friend against her.
I myself thought she wouldn't have enough counterplay after the ptb, but up until now, I was proven wrong. She does indeed have some counterplay. I almost feel like she is a killer designed to make the hold w counterplay more interesting.
Also, she can not hit you across maps with no investment. It's actually very hard and unlikely to injure survivors across maps, if they aren't standing still that is. If she uses more than one crow to swarm a survivor far away, the survivor will be able to repel the crows before the cooldown of her ability ends. Her unlimited range is no doubt one of the best aspects of her, because it's one of the aspects that give her such a high skill cap, and that give her some map pressure, which is something killers desperately need.
I do think she could be improved. I wish survivors had a chance to dodge close by dire crows and manage to evade a direct damage hit, even when she has line of sight on the survivor, weakening her anti-loop potential a bit, and instead buff her ranged chase capabilities a bit, to make her a bit stronger against holding w. I'm not fully optimistic the devs will do this, but I do hope we will see changes to her that do exactly this.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670740#Comment_2670740
Boon counters it a lot.
It's also 100% useless without other perks. You need to have whole build around it.
Sure, Boons are somewhat of a counter against it. But it would be ridiculously strong against survivors without boons. Not to mention that solo survivors will have a harder time dealing with this perk than swf survivors.
I understand that you'd want other Hex perks with this perk, but if these conditions are met, this perk would still be beyond busted if you could just rekindle totems again and again. That's not how you balance a perk.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671111#Comment_2671111
Isn't this just proof it's true?
Proof for what? That she needs a nerf?
If you mean that, then no, not at all. Listening to people crying for nerfs for a certain killer before they try to even learm how to go against that killer is not the way to go.
She is strong, but certainly not op in my opinion. We need strong killers like her in this game.
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@TransverseCaster said:
It doesn't require intelligence, just common sense. The problem is playing with solos is that you can't help people if they're not paying attention. Case in point: The Meg gets unhooked and crouches down under the hook for a heal. I have We'll Make It for double healing, but if we sit under the hook the Artist is just going to crow us again. I wave her on. It's 50/50 shot if she follows me at that point to get out of the way.
A better counterplay mechanic is to alert the entire map when she sets crows. That way you can predict whether you're a target or not. If you're on a gen or getting an unhook. Maybe put a delay to the alert in, that way they can't just hit the three obvious areas but can still get some hits in if they single crow.
To be fair, you can't balance killers around survivors that don't pay attention and what not. I personally think she should just have the notification when she send crows flying, and that's it. Her map pressure is surely not what should be nerfed, if she does need a nerf. It's her anti-loop potential that could maybe need a nerf, but only with a compensation buff as well, making her stronger against holding w.
You are right that she can at least pressure multiple survivors across the entire map, but she can't actually fight the entire map from anywhere, because using more than one crow means survivors can repel crows before the cooldown of her ability ends again.
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It wasn't just people with little experience that feared that she wouldn't have enough counterplay. Her potential to shut down loops is undeniably very strong. If she has line of sight on a survivor, and the survivor is cornered at a pallet loop, there is nothing more the survivor can do. The Artist will get a guaranteed down.
But I am happy to see that she does have more counterplay than I thought. I underestimated her slowdown and the map structures that would allow survivors to try to get from one pallet or loop to another pallet or loop.
Though I personally still feel like she would be more fun for both sides if her anti-loop potential was weakened a bit, so that survivors had the chance to dodge dire crows and therefore a direct damage hit at loops, being able to loop her a bit, even if she has line of sight on the survivor, and instead make her long range potential a bit stronger, so she has a better chance of actually injuring survivors at further ranges and through walls.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670912#Comment_2670912
its for free, you get 3 crows to spam cross snipe all the time, its not like it has a huge cooldown at all. its free, and its dumb, unless it had some sort of sound cue or something that survivors could hear so they can move and avoid it.
@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670912#Comment_2670912
the worst part is that she can place 2 to 3 actually to camp the same hook and injured for free someone, and potentially down them, thats ultra dumb, not even considering she can do that aswell with gens, when used certain gen control perks is guaranteed to land hits, tehre is no risk and reward there is only a reward without any risk without almost cooldown at all.
If you think that's free, than I am not sure if you played her yourself. Survivors that are not standing still and are farther away from you are still not easy to hit, even with three crows.
I am also not quite sure if you've already played against her, but survivors do get a sound queue whenever the Artist sends her crows flying, and it is map wide. I've been able to dodge these crows a few times while on gens already because of it.
I am also not sure how she can place crows at a hook to injure a survivor for free. First of all, she can't place crows within 10 meters of a hooked survivor. And in order to injure the survivor that is rescuing, or down the hooked survivor, she would have to place two crows in the direction of the hook, and with enough distance, so there is enough delay between the two crow swarms hitting the survivor, because survivors are immune to any further crow swarms for a very short time after getting hit by a swarm. Smart survivors will just move away from that position immediately and then not get hit by the second crow swarm.
Nothing about her is free. She can not easily get an injure with two crow swarms, because she has to place them with some distance between them, and survivors can easily dodge the swarms. There is a risk, it can be rewarding, and there is a fairly high cooldown as well, when you use two and especially 3 crows at once. In fact, if you use 2 crows, the cooldown of the Artist ability is 9 seconds. 12 seconds if she uses three crows. The repel action takes 8 seconds. So if she uses two or more crows to swarm a survivor, she won't be able to injure the survivor before they repel the crows.
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@hiken said:
the birds are extremelly annoying when used to affect teh other side of the map for free... that should get watched.
That's like one of the best parts about her. The fact that she actually has some form of map pressure. Nerfing that would be the stupidest thing BHVR could do. Plus it's definitely not for free.
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@musstang62 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668461#Comment_2668461
I guess the point I always come back to is that Billy - widely regarded as the gold standard for a fun to verse yet strong killer - was gutted about a year and a half ago and still hasn't been touched since then (engravings buff feels absolutely miniscule to me). Overheat greatly limits feathering options, FOV and animation issues make him obnoxious and difficult to play, and the wonky map hitboxes and increased bump times are just icing on the cake. There's a reason why Billy is almost as non-existent as Twins anymore, and it's a damn shame because it makes the game less fun for killer and especially survivor players in general
I have zero faith bhvr will do the right thing balance wise when they've done stuff like this in the past. Their criteria for balancing is completely disconnected from what the overwhelming majority of the playerbase would consider good balance. Artist released in a fairly strong state, so she's justifiably never going to see any buffs, only nerfs from hereon out. I have no idea whether or not those nerfs will ever come, because I have no idea what bhvr's criteria for balancing is. It's just always frustrating to know that there's a sword of damocles hanging over every decent killer's head and it's impossible to know whether or not it will come down (for seemingly no reason), and when
The nerf to Hilbilly's basekit was definitely unneeded, though I personally still never felt like the overheat mechanic hurt him a lot. But I never mained Billy.
But there have been many good balance changes made by the devs as well. Spirit's nerf was great. And Pyramid Head also got a nerf the right way, with a nice little compensation buff as well.
I've been playing the Artist and she doesn't seem op, the only problem I see is that there might be too many situations against the Artist where survivors can't do anything. Basically, as long as you have line of sight on the survivor, and are able to corner a survivor at a loop, they can't do anything.
My hope would be that BHVR found a way to give her a bit more counterplay at loops, but also make her long range capabilities a bit stronger, so trying to hit survivors at longer ranges becomes a bit more viable as well. Pretty much make looping a bit stronger against her, and holding w a bit weaker against her. So both strategies have a similar power level.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668534#Comment_2668534
I mean, it would be at least possible to get 5 tokens?
Let's be honest, you will never get more than 2
Yeah but you could make sure that survivors have a 30% penalty to repair progress pretty much the entire match. That's by far the most impactful effect anyways. It would be ridiculous.