Xernoton
Xernoton
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668256#Comment_3668256
The only way to fix this, changing objectives. I am not saying remove hooks and generators. But add more objectives for both sides and ofcourse balance numbers around it.
This would give them chance for new perk types as well.
Ofcourse i have no idea what type objectives we would get but i am sure devs would figure out since it's their job after all.
An objective besides hooks would be interesting. There had already been some suggestions for side objectives on the survivors side, so they have something to go by but for killer I find it a bit harder to come up with something.
Thanks for your input though. I'll give it some thought.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667954#Comment_3667954
Hm..yeah but for the MMR to correct itself you have to assume it works. And it also probably/normally doesn't require 100+ games to do so.
I agree that a lot of hours played doesn't mean the player is good. People here use it the same way they use "high MMR". It doesn't prove anything, in league there was a notorious case of a player who had many hours (like they played daily over 2 hours) and they were still stuck in bronze (lowest rank), so playing a game a lot won't necessarily make you better.
I can't contribute on the WoO, I don't notice how my teammates play with or without it. I personally use it very sparingly after I have a match where I keep running into deadzones where I expect the pallets to be but they have been used up already.
I don't know about the comp player, I guess anyone who takes part into competitive matches could count as "comp" despite belonging to the worst team etc. They could also be having an off days, who knows. Or maybe their little brother was playing on their account🤣
Hm..yeah but for the MMR to correct itself you have to assume it works. And it also probably/normally doesn't require 100+ games to do so.
This would assume that MMR even works that well. Which to some degree it does but seeing as how far skill disparities on survivor teams can go, I'm not sure that the system works well enough to balance it as fast as it should. I can go into more detail, if my point is unclear but I think you get the idea.
I can't contribute on the WoO, I don't notice how my teammates play with or without it. I personally use it very sparingly after I have a match where I keep running into deadzones where I expect the pallets to be but they have been used up already.
Do you typically use Bond by any chance? I do (mostly combined with Open Handed because I find this information to be quite strong) and I can usually tell when someone has it even as a survivor. There is like a short moment where they will pause around a loop or slightly adjust and then run in straight line to the next pallet. It's even more obvious, when they never look behind themself.
As a killer it's easier to tell because you're closer to the action though.
I don't know about the comp player, I guess anyone who takes part into competitive matches could count as "comp" despite belonging to the worst team etc. They could also be having an off days, who knows. Or maybe their little brother was playing on their account🤣
Definitely possible. But from what I've seen most comp survivors at least aren't actually that great in the 1v1 aspect of the game (killers often are pretty good with their powers, which are often anti loop). In most comp games survivors pre drop (no matter the killer) and keep distance as much as possible. It's pretty rare to see them partaking in normal looping. At least that is how it looks to me.
On both sides it often feels like skillful plays are not rewarded.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668192#Comment_3668192
I totally agree with you.
When i play killer, i know one mistake will cost me the game. One long chase and 3 gens already done.
Same goes for survivor. When i see my teammate is working on totem or searching chest, i know it's game over. And funny thing, it's usually lose.
From my experience the mistakes that usually end up game ending on survivors are more like healing in a bad spot, grouping up on a gen and getting found or a poorly timed unhook. I have not seen quite so many times when my survivor team mates would do a side objective, which resulted in us losing (as a killer it's usually a bit hard to tell when that happens, so I dare not guess how many times this is the case). Though, I suppose you play more survivor than me, so I respect your opinion on the matter.
Out of curiosity, do you have an idea how to balance this out? I have thought about this a bit but so far I could not come up with a solution that would please both sides. Longer gen times aren't the way to go and more meta perks that act as side objectives could help but they wouldn't prevent the extremes, so I'm not sure how effective this would end up being.
We would need to limit the effectiveness of tunneling, no doubt (possibly proxy camping as well). But tweaking only one side would not have the desired outcome. The more I think about it, the more I believe that our short-sightedness both with limiting certain strategies and perks as well as map reworks are at least partially to blame for this situation.
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Agreed. It often feels like everything comes down to one crucial moment. One bad chase or one bad move on the survivors' side. Like both sides cannot win the game at a normal pace anymore but only if they progress so fast, that their opponent cannot keep up.
That's why many of my games are so short and I am for the first time in 2 years beginning to doubt my abilities to perform well without slowdown perks. I used to be able to play in different ways to change the pace of the game but lately it has not worked out for me.
On the other hand, survivors cannot exactly play a slower game either. Because then someone is tunneled out early and they find themselves with one person dead at 3 gens remaining. So both sides need to be slowed down a bit. Unfortunately that is always guaranteed to be tied to the gen repair time, which bears the problem that longer gens aren't exactly more fun for survivors.
This is really not easy to fix. We had seen a meta where both sides tried to slow their opponent (pre 6.1.0) but we do not need that same meta to return either. Not that it would work with the current gen regression perks anyway.
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I'd prefer they don't remove it. Often times, you'll have no idea which way she goes in a loop but the roar gives you at least a chance to attempt a mind game. Removing it would just leave you defenseless in many cases. Although I think it would be fair to push it a bit further behind, so that the Pig can charge their ambush a bit before the survivor is warned.
The only problem is that you couldn't snort at survivors anymore. So less boop the snoot moments.
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There will be more updates to change the meta eventually. The devs have already shown us that they don't want the same perks to be meta forever (which I think is good). The problem is that Pain Res is kind of unavoidable. There is no alternative to it. It's good on every killer, it activates when you do your objective with no further inputs needed and there is no downside other than the rng component of scourge hooks.
Pop isn't great on killers that have no mobility, DMS is only good when you have map pressure or combine it with GE or PR, GE doesn't work when you tunnel. That is the problem when 1 perk is not better than everything else (in theory Pop buys you a lot more time) but simply less dependent on other factors.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668058#Comment_3668058
Ok I was kinda curious about this actually. According to dbd stats, I have downed 3074 Survivors with the Deep Wound status effect. Let's assume that on average there are 2 other Survivors caught in a Frenzy chain (the downed survivor doesn't have to mend), so that's 6148 mends.
6148 x 12 seconds = 73776 seconds of mending.
About 20 and a half hours. (Over like 4 years)
(This is nowhere near accurate since I can't really track the amount of Deep Wounds inflicted specifically but it's still funny to think about)
Ew. 🤢 You really need that piece of soap. I think I'll send you a second just to make sure. Please take a nice long and thorough shower to wash off all the blood and sweat.
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@Beatricks said:
- Basekit Kindred
- See the loadout of other survivors in the lobby
- Fix matchmaking
9 out of 10 times SoloQ woes is literally skill issue, people playing with folks who are just significantly less skilled than the team/killer. It's just dead in the water sadly, either SWF up or accept that DBD is a horror roulette game.
Out of curiosity, how would you fix the matchmaking. I agree that this is the biggest solo queue issue but when it comes to MMR I don't think it's the actual numbers that are too different but the way MMR gains and losses work.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668103#Comment_3668103
lmfao that isn't a bugfix, it was a balance update the bugfixes are below. That was a balance change, stop twisting it. I'm done here you're gaslighting yourself.
2.0 m/s never actually went live for us to test. Because a bug caused Xeno to move at full speed (4.6 m/s). That is where their phrasing is mistaken because it applied on missed attacks as well. The 2.0 m/s were nerfed before they were actually tested. That's the entire point. If you still cannot understand what I say, then I give up.
I do not have the words to put it any other way.
I gave you the correct patch. I told you what exactly it was that went wrong. I told you where to look. I just can't force it into your head. This exchange is over. You clearly have no interest in even reading half of what I said.
Have a good day.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667995#Comment_3667995
You are just proving you like reading your own text here, you listened to them and proven it again lol. It's a huge problem because he takes 2 health states at high speed, it does not read well nor feel good to constantly have a killer even if they miss their power right behind you with that threat, no maths nor logic can defend that.
I don't think Billy should go back to his pre buff state, but he shouldn't be where he is at currently either. Thank you kindly for seeing I'm set on my opinion, I'm not going to budge on someone who has not been on the other side of the chainsaw, he is not healthy for the game in his current state.
Xeno was overbuffed from PTB:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GXGMUAX4YL7U/image.png
Do you want it zoomed in for you...?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/U5ZW8Z6TJQ5J/image.png
It was not a bug, it was intended.
I cannot believe I'm actually doing this. You're giving me a headache. It's pretty obvious that I was not talking about the 7.2.0 patch, is it not?
Content The Xenomorph: Reviewed the Remote Flame Turret placement logic to allow for more flexibility when deploying them Decrease the Tail Attack cooldown movement speed from 2 to 1.2 m/s when missing or when it is obstructed Perks: Adjusted the descriptions of Blast Mine, Chemical Trap, and Wiretap for consistency Added…That is the one. That is when they reverted Xeno back to the PTB state and they fixed the bug that caused it to move at full speed instead of the 2.0 m/s that were intended. Although the phrasing is incorrect here because the bug did not happen only when downing a survivor, as I'm sure you and many others remember. In Xeno's case you made literally no distance.
In fact, we never actually saw the 2.0 m/s in action.
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You are a toxic survivor main. Obviously. Your mere existence displeases us greatly.
In all seriousness, don't take it too personal. Sometimes players just get salty for no reason at all.
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Hillbilly, my beloved. I've never had more fun running around with a chainsaw.
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Congratulations on joining the P100 club @ReverseVelocity,
your innitiation to the ranks of sweaty, toxic killer mains will commence shortly. As a welcome gift, we have marked your profile on all platforms with the words: Bleeder of Meg heads, slaughterer of Neas, enjoyer of Susie. You can expect a representative to come by later this week to receive your official "Sweaty Killer"-ID, "Trust me bro - I'm P100 Legion"-badge and a piece of soap.
We have also informed the Toxic Nea Main Association of your recent ascent. Expect to see some very passionate teabags in your future.
Your's sincerely,
Xernoton,
Toxic Hillbilly main and chainsaw enthusiast of the Sweaty Toxic Killer Main Association
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I don't like it. The only gen regression meta that I somewhat enjoyed was Ruin + Undying since you needed to be in chase constantly and try to pressure multiple survivors at once to get maximum value out of your perks. As a survivor I always felt like there was a bit of gamble involved. You could try to pressure through Ruin + Undying but it wasn't exactly a safe option. So there was a bit more thinking involved.
The current gen slowdown meta is not my cup of tea. I never really liked Pain Res (though I don't think it's super problematic) and Pop is a healthy but boring perk in my opinion. You hook someone, then you go kick a gen. Not all that exciting. It's fine to play against though. Yes, it will never feel great to see your progress reduced in a big chunk but it's not overpowered or anything and it does afford the killer to progress their objective, so it's not like CoB + OC where simply kicking the gen was already enough.
Corrupt Intervention is completely fine in my opinion. I liked it before the nerf but the nerf makes it objectively more healthy since the strongest killers will no longer get the full duration out of it while already tunneling the first guy. You can play around it but it definitely gives the killer some value in a very crucial time of the match.
DMS + GE is disgusting and it reminds me exactly of what was wrong with Eruption. Basically whenever it activates, you just sit idly and wait for it to pass. You have nothing to else to do. So even more than it's strength I find that feeling of having no objective problematic. You could in theory still heal but let's be honest, if you're gonna heal then you'll do it before you start working on a gen.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667534#Comment_3667534
I did quote the right post as I was replying to you dismissing their points, so you just acknowledged them? And it does, it directly relates to your "omgmaths" arguement, if you have ever done data collection you have to take into consideration these kind of things to some degree, the servers can't keep up with faster killers everyone knows this.
But that said he isn't fun to play against anymore, he was clearly buffed to sell the rift, and he will be nerfed when its over LMAO
The same to you:
bro what distance are you talking about? i literally have a clip where i dodge his chainsaw at a jungle gym and tried to make it to the pallet which is obviously so close and i couldn't he downed me with an M1. you literally can't make any distance idc about whatever math you're saying here. in action none of what you're saying happens and i literally clipped to make sure to show it to anybody who says you can make distance whenever he misses.
Please explain how anything in here is related to hitboxes. This is the exchange that happened between us. Everything else they wrote, I do not read since it's not addressed to me.
I aknowledged your point about latency issues (I guess that was a mistake?! Not sure what else you would want me to do.) and I also explained that I do not see this as an issue with this killer in particular. We have 34 killers in this game and a majority of them big problems associated to latency.
I have my doubts we'll see such huge nerfs to Hillbilly. They nerfed his cooldown twice already (I'm counting addons here) and it's really not that big of an issue. Even latency does not change the fact that you make quite a bit of distance after a missed chainsaw. The math is sound and I even twisted the numbers in your favor because I did not factor in the time it would take him to accelerate to full speed again. With that, you gain even more distance.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667751#Comment_3667751
Because Xeno, overbuffed at release, nerfed after the launch hype.
Chucky overbuffed for release, "bug fixed" after the launch hype.
It's a recent trend with them, they didn't used to do this but it's becoming more apparent, I guess we will see when the next rift comes out and if lines up with one of the buffs/reworks. I'd not be surprised if we see Huntress cosmetics all of a sudden.
Before you make these claims, I suggest you fact check this. Because you are objectively wrong in the very first sentence here. Xeno was not overbuffed but simply bugged on release. The recovery after a tail attack did not slow you at all. This was not a buff but a huge bug. For some reason instead of fixing the bug, they completely reverted Xeno to the PTB version in that regard. If you need prove, then just find the patch and look where they put this change. They titled it as a bug fix.
But since you are so set on your opinion it seems, I doesn't matter. I will not change your mind and we'll just have to wait and see. One thing is for sure though, nerfing killers until they feel horrible to play (like pre buff Hillbilly) does not have the positive effect that you may think.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667534#Comment_3667534
i did mention hitboxes and server issues before you quote me but i guess you can't read
bro what distance are you talking about? i literally have a clip where i dodge his chainsaw at a jungle gym and tried to make it to the pallet which is obviously so close and i couldn't he downed me with an M1. you literally can't make any distance idc about whatever math you're saying here. in action none of what you're saying happens and i literally clipped to make sure to show it to anybody who says you can make distance whenever he misses.
I read your response multiple times to make sure I didn't miss anything (which could definitely have happened). But to my knowledge, none of this is related to hitboxes in any way.
Since you needed to stoop so low as to insult me, I will end this conversation now. Have a good day.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667548#Comment_3667548
I don't think the people who play one a week or a month when their friends play are in this forum to complain. I would assume most people who are here care somewhat about the game, but it is the nature of games that woth every meta shift the players might have to re-learn the game etc. And that doesn't always mean they can adjust just as well. It's true in every game and it's also why some pros might become "washed out". It's a darwinian principle in practice evolve or begone. So to claim people don't wanna learn etc. is short sighted. I think the game just changes too fast for the people to manage to learn, especially when now they might actually go to work and not able to play Dbd for 3+ hours at the time.
So people who learned how to play back in 2019 might have trouble adjusting for various practocal as well as personal reasons (maybe they are bad at adjusting etc.). I think this conversation could do with a lot more nuance as I don't think it's just DBD players who might have trouble. I think in any game people will think their opponent is hacking or scripting, heck once even I was accused and I am average at best.
BHVR's stance also doesn't help. They say one thing but do another. They say it's a party game but balance mostly for high level.
I also think that BHVR is not always transparent but which company is? I do think they are more concerned with retaining killers than vice versa, because I would assume a large percentage of survivors play more rarely, since they might only play when their whole squad is available, which can be hard to co-ordinate, and not play solo. So yeah those two populations are playing with very different mindsets. But I do think survivors who play solo are probably a lot closer to killer players in mindset imo.
It's not just those that play every so often but even regular players. Sometimes players with hundreds or thousands of hours. If you play so little, then of course you won't learn the game. But you can't expect to have an easy time getting into the game and get your few wins out of it, when it's so obvious that you are hopelessly outmatched (something that MMR will correct eventually but not immediately).
For the last 5 years, looping has been agreed upon to be the most efficient way of delaying a killer. Yet, how many people with thousands of hours have you seen that could not play beyond pre drop and Shift + W? I played against a supposed comp player (that's what they wrote on their steam profile) a while ago and I was honestly very disappointed. The first mind game around shack gave me a hit because they couldn't use check spots. That's something even I, a pretty bad survivor player, can do. The same happens around jungle gyms and sometimes even main buildings like on GoJ. When you have so much time to wait and react. It baffles me.
I have also observed what I call WoO syndrome. If it doesn't glow yellow, then it doesn't exist. Survivor players that are affected by blindness sometimes run straight past strong pallets and go down. Because the entire map is a dead zone. The GoJ main building is a dead zone and the entire The Game map is one large dead zone. At least to players who absolutely cannot play without their favorite crutch. This again, affects players with more play time than me.
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It do be dangerous indeed.
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I like Nemesis more, if I'm honest. Xeno just has a few minor issues that really rub me the wrong way. Like turrets with i-frames, turrets that have no collisions at times (I literally hit through them) and the tail attack sometimes going through survivors. They don't completely ruin Xeno but they make playing that killer a lot less fun because it's pretty hard to figure out what went wrong and how to avoid it.
Nemesis feels more consistent to me and I have an easier time getting into him than I have with Xeno. I also don't have this issue that I need to look up unnaturally high just so I don't hit the floor, which really takes some getting used to.
With that said, I see where you're coming from. Both killers have some clear similarities in which Xeno simply outperforms. 2 hits for a down, no tier 1, more loops that allow you to get hits and no zombies to bodyblock you instead of hitting survivors. Plus insane mobility and inbuilt tracking as well as a slowdown mechanic. It doesn't get more versatile than that.
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@Hermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667246#Comment_3667246
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667279#Comment_3667279
Are you guys at least wearing your aluminiun hats when posting stuff like this, like there is this secret killer main society in McCotes basement with him wearing dark robes: "Brothers, we are going to buff DS, but no worries we have a plan!"
Or maybe the killer main circle captured his hamster and holds it hostage "You shall not buff DS, here is the little guys small toe"
😂
Are you saying I broke into someone's basement last week? That would explain why that lady was so affraid of my chainsaw.
I think I'll have to call my lawyer.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
This chapter is boring.
Killer has amazing visuals but i am not fan of his power, it's boring. Not for my taste.
Killer perks are not good but not trash either. Mid-tier at best.
Survivor is looking good and people are already hyped for her. BHVR knows how to make new money maker survivors lol.
Survivor perks are garbage again. They all are weak versions of existing perks. The only new type perk is just troll perk and helping to killers.
Overall? This chapter is bad.
I'm really curious what changes they will make to Invocation perks. They had a lot of feedback and I'm honestly pretty excited for a new type of perk but this doesn't work.
The killer perk Undone is terribly unhealthy. I can already think of some builds to make casual survivors uninstall. Like Doctor with Distressing, Unnerving Presence, Huntress Lullaby and Undone on a small map. Slap on a Calm addon and maybe the Iri Queen and you have the most disgusting combination imaginable. This cannot stay.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666202#Comment_3666202
I don't understand this argument to be honest. In every game the majority of player base is considered "bad", especially the higher up you go. What makes DBD survivors uniquely bad compared to other players in different games?
The lack of willingness to learn. The same goes for killers. If you want me to provide a list for killers, just ask.
We have a lot of people in this game that want their hand held in every situation. There are people that think the shack isn't a good loop, pre dropping is the only way to play, killers using their powers to guarantee hits leaves them with no counterplay (when they should have avoided that situation in the first place), aura reading to find survivors is overpowered because it's a hide and seek (which has not been the case for as long as I have played), killers are too fast... You name it.
In other games they'd just be told to "git gud" (not very helpful but it does have some truth to it) but in DBD we have 2 hive minds that will just jump on whatever one sided argument is in their favor and try to defend it.
I get that DBD is a hard game and it doesn't help that the tutorials don't teach you about proper looping and even playing safe but it's not like you can expect to play without putting any effort into it and still win all your games (at least it shouldn't). You see how popular WoO is and you can tell as a killer who uses it. The worst part is that Blindness makes these survivors run around like headless chicken.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667434#Comment_3667434
Correct. And after a week,
killers/players will be here complaining about DS and how they can't win now. There's no problem that will be fixed without creating more. Humans are involved, after all. A central hub that could find the sweet spot would be great! But we have BHVR. So lets see if this DS change is even a meaningful one...I mean, it's somewhat natural that some killers will stop winning. If you raised your MMR to the max of your ability by hard tunneling every match, then it's only natural that you will lose a lot more after the DS buff, which I'm quite certain will bring it back to 5 seconds. Though I have a feeling, that there will be more to it. Otherwise they could have simply increased the number and thrown it in any patch prior.
I just hope they can avoid that old DS + UB meta. We do not need to relive that. Especially since it would likely lead to the same situation we have now. Tunneling in pretty much every match. After all, if you're going to eat a DS anyway, then it might as well be on your terms.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667031#Comment_3667031
tbf they have a point re the hitboxe and servers, there is so much inconsistency not to mention the jank FoV sliders seem to have brought with them.
I got hit by a flashbang which was behind me while playing billy the other night, and I've gotten so many hits under pallets I shouldn't have thanks to it.
Are you sure you quoted the right post? They didn't say anything about hitboxes, lag or FoV slider related issues. They only said they didn't care about the math and made some claims that are factually wrong.
I'm not going to pretend that lag can't lead to some very questionable things but I'm not sure how this is connected. This is not a problem with this killer. If they can fix that somehow while avoiding a repeat of the great hit validation wave of summer 2021 (that was the most horrible time to play killer), then that's great and I'm all for it. But that has nothing to do with Hillbilly's cooldown.
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Solo players will never be on the same level as a SWF. This is a bottomless pit. We still have people that claim that BHVR only care about killers and don't do anything for solo survivors. When solo survivors already have a very powerful tool with the HUD to help them out and there isn't so much more they can do without breaking the game.
This is not to say that solo queue couldn't be better. Seeing your team mates loadouts and a few more emotes to communicate (similar to DBD mobile) would definitely help. But even that wouldn't stop the complaints.
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@Ranch_Jello said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667236#Comment_3667236
I would have to disagree, like with my example on Toba landing. If you do this tech off the ship you can direct it underneath section where basement is, the inside of the ship, or to the hook on the left. Just dropping would limit you to the inside of the ship.
The Toba Landing clip actually showed something useful. This clip not really. It looks flashy but it's not something you wouldn't have gotten before. My point is that this "tech" has limited use and isn't quite as strong as one could think. It's more of an example for something that can be very powerful when it comes to it, which is not that common. Like Wesker's insta down.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666607#Comment_3666607
But most of the meta is locked behind a DLC paywall. It isn't ideal, but this is how the game works.
Everyone is thrown to the wolves, but the wolves will always have to think about a potential stun. As you've said, it doesn't completely fixes things, but I think it will help.
At least it should put an end to the sheer wave of tunneling we're currently seeing.
Maybe the threat of DS alone will reduce it but I'm really not certain that this will be enough. There is no alternative to DS after all.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667190#Comment_3667190
So I think a crucial piece missing from your analysis is that when DS was 5 seconds long there were other survivor perks & strategies available to maximize its value. These things no longer exist. DS at 5 seconds in the current meta will be as impactful as DS at 3 seconds in the current meta.
What perks that optimised DS value are no longer availabe? Unbreakable hasn't been touched. Spam healing wasn't necessary to maximise DS value either. It worked long before we ever had CoH or 4 medkits per game. DH wasn't necessary to maximise DS value either. It was even argued back then that SB, which again has not been changed, was better.
Saying that a DS buff will have little to no impact is dishonest at best. I'd argue that the anti tunnel meta with a 5 seconds DS would be even stronger than it was before 6.1.0. Nobody has to run BT anymore since that is base kit, we also have OTR, Unbreakable is still the same and DS would be just as strong as before. So you could have 3 highly effective perks to support DS, an exhaustion perk and DS itself.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667213#Comment_3667213
Is it really? The grand scale of the game is a non cometetive environment, which is probably roughly 80% of the playerbase. We should not forget that we mostly represantate fans who have thousends of hours and are around since many years. The average player has nowhere near that experience nore passion.
If that was the case we'd see a lot more people play nice. But it's always the same few perks and the same strategies used. We call them casual because they are not as optimised as comp players but they have the same mind set. Winning above all else. And that seems to be the overwhelming majority of players. This is a competitive mind set, that will not go away in one update. Especially since we have been going in this direction for 7 years.
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You could have just walked off the ledge and started the chainsaw in mid air to get the same result. So that's not a useful example for this "tech" (feels kind of weird to call it that).
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667200#Comment_3667200
The point of the game is to have fun
Make it so the game is fun for all parties regardless if they are winning or losing
Whats the point of sweating to kill all survivors as fast as possible? If you have fun doing so, then do it, however the game should not be designed like that, instead promoting fun interactions between all parties. And I'm also talking about survivors, only rushing gens should not grant good amounts of points either.
We're long past that point. This game has become competitive and you can't just implement such a change and expect the player base to deal with it. This will not happen.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667147#Comment_3667147
The only base kit reward should be the points system
Spreading hooks: 50k BP, 500XP
Tunneling survivors: 5k BP, 100XP
This is no reward. You could give killers 100k BP per match and they'd still try to win by using the most efficient strategies. But then winning would be punished. If your goal is to push people away from playing killer, then congrats, this will do the trick.
It's a much safer way to punish tunneling in game and reward spreading hooks in game as well. That way, the latter would become the more efficient strategy to win, which would have the intended effect for survivors while keeping killers in a good spot.
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We used to have that meta already, which is what worries me most. Back then, camping was a lot more reliable and it was probably the bigger issue but with base kit BT, the removal of hook grabs, the near impossibility to interrupt unhooks and the AFC, that is not as reliable anymore.
So I expect that killers will either double down on tunneling (even harder than now) so that the 5 seconds stun becomes less impactful or to focus even more on gen defense. Both of these options aren't ideal. Slugging would probably decrease at first but then become more of a problem later on. Unbreakable only saves you once and if a killer can down you multiple times, then they will still get value out of it.
A DS buff will unoubtedly lead to the same situations we had pre 6.1.0 where survivors that were recently unhooked were no longer affraid of the killer and instead played like they were invincible. This resulted in them bodyblocking and even lingering around for pallet / flashlight saves. This is an issue that will have to be addressed or we basically force killers to double down on tunneling. If you are going to eat that DS anyway, you might as well do it on your terms and capitalise from that.
The kill rates will go down. By how much I cannot possibly say. But it will happen and it will lead to some further changes to help killers that struggle. However, I think this will still be more enjoyable than having a team mate eliminated early on. I also doubt that the devs will try to balance survivors around killers again. We had that once (6.1.0) and while it definitely helped it has become apparent that individual killer buffs are far more effective. MMR will do the rest to keep a 60% kill rate (or something close to it).
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@Ayodam said:
Isn’t this the only good loop on that map though? The rest is unsafe or dead zone.
Then it's still bad map design. I'd rather have some good tiles scattered across the map and this deleted than this set up and nothing else. Although, Sanctum of Wrath has a few more good structures. There are 4 main tiles on that map and some filler loops that are definitely usable.
It's not a very strong map by any means but it's not like that is the only safe area.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664496#Comment_3664496
bro what distance are you talking about? i literally have a clip where i dodge his chainsaw at a jungle gym and tried to make it to the pallet which is obviously so close and i couldn't he downed me with an M1. you literally can't make any distance idc about whatever math you're saying here. in action none of what you're saying happens and i literally clipped to make sure to show it to anybody who says you can make distance whenever he misses.
"I don't care about facts because I want it nerfed regardless."
I don't even need to prove you wrong anymore. You just discredited yourself.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666605#Comment_3666605
20 minutes is misleading. a flashlight lasts somewhere between 20-26 second at most with streetwise with 2 batteries depending on if you use green or purple flashlight. I would not consider this as problematic but more of a build that can bully baby/bad killers that rely on bloodlust to win chases.
You don't use the flashlight for more than 2 seconds at a time and you get an easy 20 seconds of extra time out of it, if you use it at the right loops. Sometimes even more.
The fact of the matter is, that the killer absolutely cannot chase that survivor around that structure under any circumstances. This is the same effect that infinites had. And because all 4 survivors can do this, it is indeed a problem. Yes, you can immediately stop chasing when someone reaches one of these structures but at some point you will need a down and the first hit is enough to give them the distance to get to that structure.
This has nothing to do with "baby killers". There is no mind game to beat this and you cannot give up every chase just because they run towards a good structure.
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@GeneralV said:
Yes, tunneling is a bit out of control.
Without DS as punishment or BBQ as an incentive to not tunnel, there isn't much that can be done if the killer decides they want you out of the game ASAP.
The upcoming DS changes have to be a good buff, because it is the best chance to fix this problem, and the only thing survivors will be getting for a little while.
I'm with you, although I think buffing DS is not enough. We are talking about a licensed perk after all. So basically new players would need to buy the Halloween dlc and unlock DS quickly or they're thrown to the wolves.
The base kit BT effect could use some work (no collision with the killer) so that OTR becomes a better option too and it might be necessary to add further base kit mechanics like a 3 seconds DS.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665717#Comment_3665717
it is intended. the way bloodlust works in this game is that the more survivor runs, the bloodlust meter builds-up but walking to flashlight counts as walking. As a result, you lose bloodlust. Fixated+Champion of light is 70% faster walking speed. Regular walking speed in the game is 2.62 m/s or 56% m/s.
Assuming I did not make any math errors, a survivor that walks with flashlight with fixated+champion of light moves at 4.068 m/s. 4.068 m/s is ~101%. So you get 1% MFT when using a flashlight and you do not build bloodlust but you move the speed of a running survivor.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665894#Comment_3665894
bloodlust does not build up when walking.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666359#Comment_3666359
It works as long as your flashlight battery life exists. You will eventually run out of battery charge so it will never create infinities unless you invent a infinity battery flashlight. it is funny how they managed to make flashlights into anti-blood lust item.
Then call them pseudo infinites. You can't loop the killer forever. Only for 20 minutes (or however long you can keep the battery up). The point is, that you can loop a killer for the entire game around the same structure without it getting blocked. It's definitely an issue and it cannot stay.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666145#Comment_3666145
The anti-camp mechanic is a joke because the bar fills so slowly and the radius is small. It actually trains killers into more effective campers because now they proxy camp. The devs just can't bring themselves to nerf killers in any way because streamers will complain if they can't win almost every game. It's a killer sided game now and devs expect survivors to just be fodder for killers' entertainment.
I had already explained that to you about a week ago.
@Xernoton said:
That was exactly what the devs wanted to achieve though. The goal wasn't to stop camping but stop killers from preventing unhooks because it's a horrible experience for that survivor when they are only hooked once and die without any chance of someone getting them off. This is no longer possible. So it achieved its goal.
It is not an anti camping mechanic but an anti face camping mechanic. As in: Killers should not be able to stand right at the hook and prevent all unhooks.
https://deadbydaylight.com/news/anniversary-gameplay-updates/
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666145#Comment_3666145
The problem is anti-face camp doing nothing against strong campers. It's really so easy to manipulate. Specially for killers like Huntress, Bubba, Billy, Trickster, Twins, Hag etc.
And the funny thing those killers was the actual problem at camping before AFC. And they are still the problem. So AFC really did not fix so much. Problem is still here as like before.
Billy is not that strong of a camper now that the AFC is in place. You will get the unhook no matter what. He literally cannot stop you, if you dodge once or start the unhook animation. Hag also doesn't face camp. That's proxy camping, so in her case the AFC shouldn't work anyway.
You cannot change the AFC much further. Huntress can camp you from a distance, so can Trickster and Deathslinger but increasing the range would punish killers that aren't camping too. So there would either need to be adjustments to these killers or the AFC that only affect these killers. The latter is not something BHVR have ever done (as far as I know), so that's unrealistic.
Adjusting their powers would bear the same issue that the AFC has. Too much and it becomes exploitable, too little and it doesn't help. That's a dilemma.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666359#Comment_3666359
Yea but it isn't easy to pull off these killers just sucked
If it can happen at all, that is enough for it to be a problem. The buildings I listed offer little to no room for mind games, so it doesn't matter how good a killer is, they are all equal when it comes to these. Meaning, no matter how good the killer, if you can pull it off against one, then you can pull off against all.
That is never fine. We have the same issue with Nurse. She is hard to play and she has been for a while (though I disagree that she's the hardest killer in the game). Were all of these nerfs to her unwarranted? I don't think so.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666353#Comment_3666353
But also, Autodidact stocks would go down with a Deadline rework :(
Still sad that we have to discuss reworking perks or Killers right after they launch.
Truer words have never been spoken.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666177#Comment_3666177
Yea but this isn't easy to pull of especially vs any killer that has an iq more then 2. You can see these killers are completely new to the game. This is a match making problem not a perk problem.
Anything that allows survivors to loop without starting a chase is a problem. That includes CoL.
They only showcased it around shack but you need to think bigger. If that is possible around shack, then what does that mean for GoJ, the chapel, the asylum, the Groaning Storehouse, Suffocation Pit's main building, Blood Lodge and Azarov's Resting Place? We are not just talking about some niche scenarios that allow a survivor to get a few more seconds out of a loop but potential infinites.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666167#Comment_3666167
Yeah, I agree it can't stay.
That will mean all of Wake's perks are well and truly duds though, which is unfortunate
Agreed.
Although I think they are all salvageable in some way. Champion of Light could impact the blind duration and give flashlights 20% extra battery (just an idea, the numbers are not fully thought through). Illumination could use some number buffs and highlight gens that are worked on in white. That would give it a bit more utility.
Deadline is a bit difficult to fix. So I'd prefer a rework for it. We don't need Hyperfocus builds to become super popular.
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Nah. That thing can rot on the hook.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666328#Comment_3666328
Okay then idk what mmr im in but thats a majority of what i see after a certain point of playing. Is that better for you?
That would actually make sense, so yeah. It is a better point.
But again, it's only a feeling and feelings can often be misleading. So without any actual data (and evidence for it) I can only trust that you feel this way.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666301#Comment_3666301
Once you get to a certain point all you’ll see is
weskers, blights, spirit, occasional nurse, occasional artist, occasional plague. Random nemesis/oni. Mostly weskers and blights though once you start getting up there.
right before red and early red you’ll see a lot variety then it dips more towards those killers.
This makes no sense.
"Red" grades have nothing to do with MMR. It's just a grade that ranks how well you did this month and rewards you with BP. It has no impact on matchmaking whatsoever. So your entire explanation falls flat.
I would be willing to believe that certain killers have higher pick rates in high MMR but with this explanation it's apparent, that your basing this on a feeling rather than actual facts.
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@BlackRabies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666151#Comment_3666151
You sure on Meyers? There's vids and streamers I've watched that had the instant kill addon, 99% stalk, face camped, and just killed the survivor before they even touch the ground whet they unhooked themselves. Freaken hilarious 🤣 since he the only killer in the game that can kinda bypass all the face camp prevention stuff.
That's technically circumventing the base kit BT but not AFC. I'm pedantic like that.
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That's rough. I see some hook suicides too, don't get me wrong but for me it's nowhere near as bad. I see it in maybe 1/4 of my matches (sometimes more, sometimes less).
But I agree that something should be done. ScottJund actually suggested something that I think could improve this situation. Instead of being allowed to dc / suicide instantly, how about there is a countdown before you can actually do it? Many times, people that are unhooked after trying to suicide on hook still play the game, so it's likely that many just do it in the heat of the moment. This suggestion would however give them time to reflect and calm down before they ruin the match.
It wouldn't fix everything but I know that feeling when something absolutely doesn't work your way and you just want to end the game but then you calm down and keep on playing.