Weederick
Weederick
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- Weederick
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It depends how much you can flick now. If its up to 90°, he'll be fine.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
Nope, I'ma keep playing him. Don't @ me.
I think Legion is underrated in general. The chase buffs will restore his lost uncounterable first chase and stalling, especially towards the last gens, is pretty strong. He doesnt feel that weak
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Onis flick, pallet break and dash recovery got nerfed. Have to see ingame how much, but it sounds pretty significant.
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Hopefully Oni has enough demonic power to survive the devs
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883168#Comment_883168
Hitting your blinks or not is not why she struggles now. She struggles because her map presence is now terrible, which you can’t adapt to, other than slugging which only works against uncoordinated survivors. She is artificially limited because of the blink cooldown.
Her map presence took a hit, i think thats what affect most players, since Freddy/Billy have high winrates, so mobility seems to have a big impact. Her map presense is still better than 115% kiler though, since she takes the direct way. Slugging is always good in highranks though. Easiest way to win is tunnel 1, slug the other 3. Survivors cant keep up with slugging in a 1vs3. Nurse is a fantastic slugger, that should be part of your plan.
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In the last run, you cant even see the survivor, so he is pretty far away. Still 3 double blinks would be enough to catch him and the map already ended.
To draw conclusions:
- 3 doubleblinks will catch any survivor in your sight regarding map boundaries
- 2 doubleblinks for anyone inside your terrorradius
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883358#Comment_883358
You miss a key point in the video where it says "however if a survivor does know this it is not possible".
This means, if the survivor runs away earlier which translates to having a bigger headstart. Which will result in getting just that bit of extra distance to miss the second hit. Knowing shes gonna blink doesnt magically make you immune to her. Its all distance related
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883351#Comment_883351
20 meters does make a difference. With 20 meters being the headstart it would take about 3 double blinks and a single.
0 / 20 / 0
13.5 / 74 / 58.14
27 / 128 / 116.3
40.5 / 182 / 174.4
Y sure, but thats cutting of 1/3 of it. I'll try to find the video
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcO-rJBkcOo&feature=emb_logoLooks very much like Whispers lighting up range. Small execution errors aside, i think that shows the primary point, that running in a straight line does not counter nurse, to come back to topic.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883334#Comment_883334
I like to know the error if you could point it out. The speed and timings are half from the Devs and half from the wiki (blink window speeds). I do personally suspect some issues with the dedicated servers tbh.
Perhaps the survivor wasn't 32 meters away or they started running when the Nurse already had a fully charged blink. I haven't seen the test to know.
I'd like to find the error too, because this math looks good, but its in contrast to actual speed comparison. Even if it was 25m or 40m, the difference between 2 and 7 double blinks is way too big.
He basically started on blood lodge, edge of the map and proceeded to double blink over the long course of the map, while the survivor ran way with around terrorradius headstart and he catched him after 2 double blinks at almost the other end of the map.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883153#Comment_883153
32 meter headstart running straight at 4m/s. Not taking into account bloodlust for killers.
4.6 m/s killer will catch up in 50s with a lunge attack and 54s without.
4.4 m/s killer will catch up in 74s with a lunge attack and 81 without.
New Nurse 1 blink travels 33.86 meters in 8 seconds with cooldown.
New Nurse 2 blink travels 57.71 meters in 13.4 seconds with cooldown.
1 blink Nurse will take 14 blinks to catch up or 112 seconds and 474 meters to the survivors 480 meters.
2 blink Nurse will take 7 blinks to catch up or 94.5 seconds and 406 meters to the survivors 410 meters.
1 blink
Charge 2s @2.89m/s = 5.78m
Blink 1.5s @13.3333 = 20m
Blink Window 1.5s @1.54 = 2.31m
Fatigue 2s @0.96 = 1.92m
Cool down 1s @ 3.85 = 3.85m
Total: 8s @4.23 = 33.86m
2 blink
Charge 2s @2.89 = 5.78m
Blink 1.5s @13.3333 = 20m
Blink window 1.5s @1.16 = 1.74m
Blink 0.9s @13.3333 = 12m
Blink window 1.5s @1.54 = 2.31m
Fatigue 2.5s @0.96 = 2.4m
Cool down 3.5s @3.85 = 13.475
Total 13.4s @4.3 = 57.705
1 blink Time/Survivor/Nurse
0 / 32 / 0
8 / 64 / 33.86
16 / 96 / 67.72
24 / 128 / 101.58
32 / 160 / 135.44
40 / 192 / 169.3
48 / 224 / 203.16
56 / 256 / 237.02
64 / 288 / 270.88
72 / 320 / 304.74
80 / 352 / 338.6
88 / 384 / 372.46
96 / 416 / 406.32
104 / 448 / 440.18
112 / 480 / 474.04 (lunge range)
2 blinks Time/Survivor/Nurse
13.5 / 86 / 58.14
27 / 140 / 116.27
40.5 / 194 / 174.4
54 / 248 / 232.5
67.5 / 302 / 290.7
81 / 356 / 348.8
94.5 / 410 / 406.9 (lunge range)
Good math, but why did Endstille catch up to the survivor in 2 double blinks instead of 7 double blinks? Something is not working out with your math, since we could see in other videos that Nurse is a tiny bit faster than survivors. 4.3m/s means slower than slow killer and we could see in videos that she is just as fast, if not faster. Financial Stability did a video with a fake last charge, but in there we could see that nurse would have arrived first if done properly with single blinks, so she is faster or on average, atleast just as fast as a 4.6 killer. And with double blinks she can only be faster. I appreciate your efforts, really. But theres an error in the equation
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883239#Comment_883239
Then why are you here saying out loud that she's still best and everyone should just gid gud on her and also bragging the streamers who either says that she's still the best despite never playing her or do decent with her, even if they would decent with every killer.
Because thats my opinion. Lets just agree to disagree
@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883227#Comment_883227
Except that ISNT TRUE.
Statistically she is among the weakest killers in the game. Any caveat you can pull is not statistically significant enough to debunk that.
And yet you still refuse to accept that and use examples of people with flawed logic. lol the proof is in the pudding dude.
Statistics dont represent balance. I've played other games pretty intensively, like Dota 2. And my strongest heroes were the ones with low winrates. Shadowfiend, Invoker, Storm, Templar Assassin, Brewmaster. They werent weak because they had low winrates, tehy were just trickier to use and need more commitment to get rolling and i see the same thing in nurse/huntress.
Also 2016 killrate was over 60% and my god, were survivors op. Killers op because 60% killrate? No
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883208#Comment_883208
This is not true. I know a lot of killers mains who played Nurse and other killers in red ranks who don't consider Nurse the best killer anymore. So your point is again irrelevant.
What if i say, that THEIR point is irrelevant because I say so? Its a useless circle, just take opinions as opinions, none of us knows the objective tierlist. Its time to make your own point. Play every killer at red ranks for a season and you'll know what your personal tierlist is.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883208#Comment_883208
Ur just stuck in the pre-rework mindset dude. Seriously all ur saying is "It's Nurse so she's S++++++++++++++ tier by default and nothing could change that. She could not be able to down survivors at all and she'd still be S++++++++++++++++++ tier"
See, you disagree for no reason again. Im not stuck in a mindset, maybe you are to proof that she is bad. I played her a good amount after the rework and im willing to change my opinion. But she still excels over Spirit, Huntress, Billy and Hag and thus is my #1 spot on the tierlist.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883122#Comment_883122
Tru3 thinks Ghost Face and Wraith are top tier and better than Billy. I heard him saying that Ghost Face is better than Nurse too. Definitely we should all listen to him.
OhTofu never mastered Nurse. He barely played her. His opinion about her is pretty irelevant.
I don't know about Marth tier list or if he even has one at least, but I know he disagreed with Nurse's base kit nerfs in PTB.
I don't know what Zubat thinks, but he also doesn't seem to play Nurse often from what I saw when I checked his streams. Even before her nerf he didn't play her all that much.
So even "the best streamers" can have flawed opinions. They are not Gods.
But they all say that Nurse is still the strongest. Every sane killermain will tell you that. You dont have to main a killer to evaluate the tierspot, especially if they're coming from flex killermains. Like i said, make your own opinion by playing every killer in the red ranks. Then you know how strong killers are in relation to nurse.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883153#Comment_883153
"Basically, you just disagree when other people say shes fine and you disregard the math. She always had low winrates statistically, because bad nurses drag her down. And the winrate is mixed with console, so you cant compare them."
I'm talking about her red rank statistics. And her console pickrrate has never been significant enough to skew her killrate. She had an over 75% killrate before the rework. Console players were not statistically significant back then, why would they be now?
Dont exaggerate the stats. She didnt have over 75%.
She dropped from 72,7% to 65,8% and her winrate is currently rising, as Peanits said. I'd say she was blatantly overpowered before and now she takes skill and is in the same winrate % as huntress, the other skilldependant killer. Both skilldependant killers performing equally good is what i would expect.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882640#Comment_882640
You can walk people through the steps of how to blink attack someone and they still think blink spam mindless bullshit still exists. You can't help stupid sadly.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882666#Comment_882666
You spam the blink whenever its ready, just like the old tinkerer instasaw billys, and hope for a lucky hit. If Billy gets a 3s cooldown, it would mostly affect instasaw spamming. You know, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, .... Stupid unskilled gameplay.
As someone else has already explained you NEED to use blinks to even move as Nurse, so of course you're going to be constantly using your power. It still doesn't reward you for just mashing the button or holding it down till full charge everytime since you need to AIM, PREDICT, AND ANALYZE THE DISTANCE AND PATH OF THE SURVIVOR.
If you aren't doing those things then you will NEVER get a hit unless they walk into you on purpose. There is no such thing as blink spam because anyone who is just mindlessly using blinks aren't in any rank past 19.
If you hit the blink, you're still fine. Good Nurses who hit their blinks are less affected than bad Nurses who dont hit them as often. Which can become a problem if you're not as good as you thought you are.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883045#Comment_883045
"The important part is that you dont have to use the ability without cooldown in order to succeed. You can wait 3 seconds if you miss a double blink and try again."
First of all, it's 3.5 seconds. Secondly, that's way too much time in a chase.
"All it does, is affect the time efficiency of nurse. Which was too high, since every successful juke only gained you 3s until the next blink. Now survivors gain around 6s for a successful juke. Which is much more balanced for a killer as strong as nurse and a potential hit every 6s is still S-tier in DbD."
So why, if this BS you're spouting is true, is she now statistically the 3rd worst killer in red ranks? She used to be the best, now she's 3rd worst. What does that say?
"Btw i always play killers addonless, including nurse, so the change doesnt feel as impactful to me. And if i compare all the killers powerlevel, she is still at the very top."
Statistics, actual Nurse mains, and even Ardetha at one point disagrees with you. So it's your opinion against a lot .
"If you want proof right now, look at every big killer streamer, they're still 4k'ing regularly with Nurse. Tru3, Zubat, OhTofu etc are all very successfull with her and still consider her the strongest."
Tru3 said basekit nerf was unnecessary. So there's ur strike 1. Zubat and Tofu are not Nurse mains so there is strike 2 and 3. If you don't main Nurse, you do not have as fleshed out an opinion on her as Nurse mains. End of story. I love Monto, for example. but I cannot agree with his sentiment that Nurse is still good. ANd i make that clear.
"I dont see any real argument as to why her basekit should be reverted from a balance standpoint. The only argument boils down to not having fun, which is subjective. Sucks if you cant enjoy her now, but thats not reason to balance around that."
Here's ur argument. It boils counterplay against Nurse down to "run in a straight line". It statistically made her the 3rd worst killer in the game. You've been skirting the fact that the stats show she's weak ever since you threw your hat in this ring and now you are asking for a balance argument behind reverting the nerf? Ur laughable.
Laughable and not genuine. Get out of this argument if you aren't gonna even try.
Basically, you just disagree when other people say shes fine and you disregard the math. She always had low winrates statistically, because bad nurses drag her down. And the winrate is mixed with console, so you cant compare them.
Running in a straight line does not work. Endstille even made a video on that, you can use 2 doubleblinks to catch up to a survivor ~32m away.
You just cant take my genuine opinion or accept that she is still the strongest for most killermains.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883045#Comment_883045
OhTofu : He almost never plays Nurse and when I saw him playing Nurse on PTB, he did so against mediocre survivors on a laggy server.
Zubatlel : He just posted a video where he played Nurse with both range add-ons, however, the survivors from his match did horrible mistakes ( Bill running into him when he was in fatigue, Dwight getting hit and then grabbed instantly from a window ).
Tru3 : He also almost never played Nurse after her nerf and when he did so, he either needed to use her best add-ons to barely win with 1 gen left or he was even defeated when he got a map like Hawkins.
Marth : I heard that he also consistently 4ks with Clown, which is arguably the worst killer in the game and he also was not happy with the nerfs to the base kit Nurse.
So none of their Nurses impressed him or made me think that she's still the best.
The best impression is playing every killer yourself. Play every killer, try to master every toptier killer and then you know yourself, how strong they are. A lot of killerplayers who do that, will come to similar conclusions on who is toptier at high ranks. If you lack experience in other toptier killers, you may not know how strong Nurse is in comparison.
If all the main killer streamers cant convince you, that nurse is the strongest, then you dont listen to the best and most experienced killer players in this game. Have your opinion, but dont expect experienced players to agree.
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I'd only want him be able to replace old portals. Wether its by picking them up directly or through another portal. Otherwise, he's pretty dope.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883045#Comment_883045
Last I check True plays with addons and Zubat and Tofu are not Nurse players. Not saying they never play Nurse. I'm saying they're not Nurse players.
To say you only lose a few meters is quite the understatement. Maybe if you're chasing out in the open but not within or around structures.
Doesnt that just solidify the statement, that she is still strong enough, if nonnurse players can still succeed with her? I heard Marth was still 4k'ing regularly too and he is a Wraith/Nurse main.
You dont even lose a few metres. Literally 0.5 metres. So you're always in range for the next double blink and if you aren't, you probably messed up at the previous double blink and blinked in the wrong direction. You really dont lose significant distance from the cooldown. It will allow survivors to gain better mindgame situations and thus evade you more likely. But i find that balanced tbh.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882666#Comment_882666
That's a stupid strategy. The difference between Billy and Nurse is that Billy is a 115 killer without his power who can brute force a chase. Nurse literally cannot. It is literally impossible for her to brute force a chase. Her movement speed is too low, it's lower than a survivor. She cannot catch a survivor or apply map pressure without her power. You HAVE to "spam" blinks with Nurse or else you lose. You want proof? Play No blink Nurse with no MS perks or addons and tell me how it feels. Suddenly You'll be itching at that secondary power button or begging the survivor stays within perfect LOS for bloodlust to kick in.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882713#Comment_882713
What part do YOU not understand here? Nurse isn't a 110 or 115 killer. She's a ######### 96 killer. She CANT refuse to use her power. Limiting it artificially has ruined the fun of playing her and the community and statistics have shown it. BHVR is holding out hope that people like you sit here and continue peddling the "she's still OP narrative" until Nurse mains and people against the nerf finally shut up so they can continue ignoring her, and it's not gonna happen. It's like I've been saying since this rework came out. It's a lazy mess of ######### that BHVR gave no thought to and it's ######### insulting that they think this community is stupid enough to accept it. And only people who are up their own ass with ignorance is gonna defend it.
If Nurse is such a good killer let me see you prove it. Stream yourself playing only addon-less Nurse and get to R1 without a single "entity displeased".
Seriously I need an answer here @Peanits @not_Queen Stop hiding and say something. Why do you refuse to address any real criticism of this rework. Is it bc you're afraid that you're gonna get called out on it or do you honestly think this lazy mess of a rework is the best the guys who brought us the new Freddy can come up with.
The important part is that you dont have to use the ability without cooldown in order to succeed. You can wait 3 seconds if you miss a double blink and try again. You lose half a metre in that time, so you're not unable to catch up. All it does, is affect the time efficiency of nurse. Which was too high, since every successful juke only gained you 3s until the next blink. Now survivors gain around 6s for a successful juke. Which is much more balanced for a killer as strong as nurse and a potential hit every 6s is still S-tier in DbD.
Btw i always play killers addonless, including nurse, so the change doesnt feel as impactful to me. And if i compare all the killers powerlevel, she is still at the very top.
If you want proof right now, look at every big killer streamer, they're still 4k'ing regularly with Nurse. Tru3, Zubat, OhTofu etc are all very successfull with her and still consider her the strongest.
I dont see any real argument as to why her basekit should be reverted from a balance standpoint. The only argument boils down to not having fun, which is subjective. Sucks if you cant enjoy her now, but thats not reason to balance around that.
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Iron Will, bäzt perk in da game
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80-90% of the DC's happen on first down. That doesn't have anything to do with balance problems, but the lack of DC punishment.
SF5 had massive ragequitting at start because of no penalties. Then it got penalties and its gotten better.
If you dont penalize a sore loser ragequitting all day to ruin games, he will do it all day
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Looping god windows vs Hard tunneling/camping
Generally players who use the strongest loadouts (Ebony Moris, 5x second chances...) all the time
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Sabotage meta. You had so much time as killer before the hook changes... then they all went genrushing.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882713#Comment_882713
Charging a blink is nowhere the same as charging a chainsaw. Tapping blink will only move you a meter and full charge will overshoot the survivor. You can't randomly blink and be able to do well with Nurse.
Thanks for clearing that up. I will ignore you from now on.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882666#Comment_882666
What? How is this logical? When it's ready? ######### are you trying to say?
What part dont you understand? Its a simple message
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For the most part, he's fine. Slowdown addons could need a nerf and maybe slightly higher time until you fall asleep.
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@Mr_K said:
Spamming blinks. How do you spam blinks as a two blink Nurse again? What a stupid narrative that I never heard before her addon rework details were announced.
Can't wait for the spamming chainsaws narrative after the Billy rework.
You spam the blink whenever its ready, just like the old tinkerer instasaw billys, and hope for a lucky hit. If Billy gets a 3s cooldown, it would mostly affect instasaw spamming. You know, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, .... Stupid unskilled gameplay.
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Lucky Break doesnt need a timer, stealth perks arent strong enough to deserve restrictions. Same for Fixated and its injured requirement.
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Infinites. Blows my mind how they're still here after 3 years. Looping the Wretched Shop in the centre of the map is still the same. Just put anything but a window there
Anything else is fine compared to these ######### windows
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872008#Comment_872008
Nope, the target we aim for is 50%. The numbers they're actually pulling in are all over 60% right now. I can confirm that they are accurate.
Can you please gather the data for 4-swf at rank 1? That is probably the most accurate representation of "balance" we can gather from stats.
We have 4-swf at all ranks, which is irrelevant just as nurses killrate at all ranks or all platforms. And killrates at rank 1 for all group sizes. But most killers see the problem specifically in 4-swf at rank 1. Lets clear this up
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Leatherface and Legion for rework
Doctor and Clown for buffs
Also trapper bag basekit when
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@Auron471 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871755#Comment_871755
*cries in legion main*
Take the bullet for us other killers. You have 4 bodies to spare
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#NerfLegion
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
???
Killers still looking for excuses to say that 70% - 75% kill rates (red ranks) are okay?
Killers dont need excuses. Killrate was over 60% even during 2016 infinite instablind instagen instaheal no hooks dstrike no exhaustion pallettown times. Basically invincible and survivors still sucked like today.
As long as boosted casuals can make it to rank 1, killers can win. Was always that way
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Billy, he is loud, fast and lethal. Coming straight for your booty. I also like his noncamping playstyle and a skillshot with lots of room to grow.
Huntress as a secondary, her overall design is perfect. Throwing hatchets, humming her song, bunny outfit, 10/10.
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869850#Comment_869850
I'm glad to hear a legitimate argument versus insults. But you're still saying the high number of boosted survivors who don't belong in high ranks are skewing the kill rates high for killer. Which means currently at high (red) ranks killers are not getting beat up so badly overall. They may get beaten up by non-boosted (legit) red rank survivor teams now and then, but the numbers show that it doesn't happen so often that it skews their kill rates down. IOW, if legit SWF teams were really a problem, and killers faced them a lot more frequently, then killer kill rates in red ranks would be lower. I dunno, maybe in the 50s to low 60s. But the fact seems to be that killers in red ranks have a good old time destroying survivors but when they face a really good team, which doesn't happen often, they can be beaten handily.
Is this that different from a team of good survivors getting destroyed by a really good killer, which seems to happen a lot more often than killers getting beat by awesome SWF teams?
I don't know... it just looks like the issue of red rank killers being owned by legit red rank SWF teams may have been blown out of proportion if these numbers are accurate. Maybe the % of times killers lose when they run into these legit teams is high but the number of times this happens is objectively fairly low. Maybe it just feels like it happens more often because they're so used to winning....
We're definetely getting on the same page here. Killers win a lot because of boosted survivors, but lose against equally skilled survivors, which happens rarer by chance. You know, the problem i see in buffing survivors at this point is, that killers aren't inherently stronger than survivors. But that the matchmaking and ranking is so bad, that you get unbalanced matches, which favors the killer.
Rarely do you play against 4 good survivors, but when you do, you would never think of buffing survivors. But on the other hand, you run into many games with a MegHead who essentially throws the game. I wouldn't blame the balance for the high killrates, but the matchmaking system. I was always the opinion, that potatoes balance the game at highranks and that the devs like to stuff more of them into highranks to solve the skillgap problem.
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@StevePerryPsychOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869850#Comment_869850
I do agree that ranking as survivor is way too easy across the board. I'm not sure if I said it in this thread or another, but I think making it harder to pip as survivor would bring the kill rates down a bit, especially in red ranks. There are too many bad survivors getting too high in rank too easily. Furthermore, perhaps SWF should incur a higher standard for pipping while maintaining the same standard for safety pipping. This would prevent people being carried beyond their appropriate rank without penalizing people for playing with friends.
Yes especially later in the season, its more about playtime than skill. Maybe even higher pip requirements the higher your rank is, cause lowranks have a hard time already. For SWF, i see the problem in deranking swf squads who intentionally stay low to smurf low rank killers. Personally i'd rather have weaker swf at highranks than stronger swfs at lowranks, but i can see your point, they do have it easier.
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What about this thought: In order win as survivorteam, you need 3 good survivors against a good killer. The one weak link will die quickly, but you can get over it if its just one. Ranking up is too easy, so bad players get to r1 nonetheless. Whats the chance to have 0-1 potato in your team vs having too many potatoes on your team. Not that high to get 2-3 competent teammates. What if you are a potato yourself. Pretty damn low then. How often will the killer 4k in result of potatoes? Pretty often, especially if you are a potato survivor yourself.
How are the queue times? Survivors is really slow compared to instant killers = Most people dont play killer rank 1 and those who do, are probably pretty skilled. Survivor on the other hand has a lot of potatoes, even though its 4:1 already, there are still more than 4 survivors vs 1 killer at r1. The potatoes stack up on survivorteam, especially later in the season = easy wins for killers.
What happens if you face 4 good survivors though? A balanced match so to speak. Thats where everyone who plays both sides will tell you, that survivors have the upper hand. Whats more important to you? Balance -> Survivorfavored. Matchmaking -> Killerfavored
Killers op is not the conclusion though
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@Sleephartha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869783#Comment_869783
Yeah.. sometimes you need to actually use your brain and interpret information. Why might Nurse have a lower kill rate in the last 3 months? She got nerfed. Those that play her need to adjust to her so she wont perform as optimally as she used to. Plus changes due to dedicated servers. We're also only talking like 68% for Legion and 65% for Nurse. Look at the Nurse specific numbers at the bottom of the page. Nurse performance dropped. It all fits. Adjust to the facts. Don't try to make them bend to your will.
Right and you, as a data analyst, take the most obvious interpretation without any thoughts. Killrate is high, killers op, everyone else is wrong. Big brain time. Much analysed
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@Sleephartha said:
Still seeing no valid arguments. Just more anecdotal evidence about individual games. Again, not the point. Someone says killers own lower ranks, survivors own red ranks. And how exactly does that comport with this data that shows even higher kill rates in red ranks? Someone says my logic is flawed then has no follow up to counter my flawed logic. People say Peanits says don’t draw any conclusions. I‘m a data analyst. I’ll think for myself, thanks. I’ll admit there could be missing information and I’m open to having my mind changed. But in business data analytics you are presented with data and ask questions and draw conclusions. In this case these numbers fit perfectly with my experience in this game as a survivor. People say the potatos skew the kill rates. Really? In the red ranks too? But I thought survivors own the red ranks and beat up killers. Which is it? Are you saying you have lots of games in the red ranks vs easy potato squads but that the occasional killer swf squad owns you? So... you still win a lot but don’t like those times you get beat.... sorry but these stats bear out my experience that killers own this game. Facts are facts. You can’t run from them.
Legion is better than Nurse. Stats say so. "Facts are facts"
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869353#Comment_869353
Yeah I gotta say when I say 'Plague' I was interested, and when I saw her I was instantly hooked and waiting for what cool and interesting power she would have... and then she puked.
And that's all she did. What a waste tbh.
That chapter literally had no influence on the playercount. As if nothing was released that day, not even a little playerspike...sad
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Huntress exists and not everybody likes puking and vomitting all over the place.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864859#Comment_864859
Essentially this.
All the people complaining about SWF as if they are some big, bad, unstoppable force are really missing the forest for the trees.
On a balanced map every killer has the potential to win the game against every group of survivors. On a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka? Not really. That points to the fact that the issue is not SWF, but how bad some (more than some?) of the maps are. I've seen such little talk about this, when it is so obviously the biggest glaring issue in the game.
I have about 2k hours in the game, close to 50/50 in each role. All of my time (except after rank reset) is spent at rank 1 on both sides. When I was first starting out, sure, I thought that some matches were impossible to win from the get-go. But, like, it's just not true. On a decent map, no matter what killer you are, you are always capable of winning. SWF is not the issue. How badly designed some of the maps are is the issue.
What if Matt Walker keeps designing huge maps with infinites and nobody can stop him? I'd assume at some point during the last 3 years the devs have told him what the core problems are, but he doesnt care. He stubbornly keeps making big maps with infinites. Devs, someone tell him to stop. He's piling up crap that you have to fix later. Stop him
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@Sleephartha said:
Many of you disagreeing with me are missing the point. Some of the arguments:
- Survivors screwing around or giving up skew the results. - And what about killers screwing around? It balances out.
- Doesn't account for builds. - Doesn't matter. Bad survivor builds, Bad killer builds. Any crazy builds are the vast minority. Dollars to donuts the totality of these matches will balance out to about the same level of killer vs survivor builds. That's the beauty of large data sets.
- You depip at 2k. - Doesn't matter. Pips have nothing to do with this. If 2k is a 'draw', mostly black pip, and 3k is a win, then that basically lines up. Killers aren't supposed to 'win' all the time. A fairly balanced game is more like 50% overall.
- Amazing survivors can run circles around killers, etc. - A lot of misunderstanding here. Starting with Amazing killers get 4ks all day long which is I guess the closest equivalent. Case studies of individual players beating the odds. What is being missed is the overall picture. Everyone isn't a super survivor and everyone isn't a master killer. Assuming there are roughly the same percentages of weak, average and great players on each side and they all generally get matched up correctly, everything balances out. The point being made in the data is that the entire survivor pool gets beat up by the entire killer pool.
As for the argument that high rank survivors simply don't belong there and aren't the equivalent to high rank killers... let's call this the boosted potato argument... this would just be another major problem. Matchmaking and opponent balance are 2 sides of the same coin. If the game's built in system for generating games is creating imbalanced matches in the killer's favor that's a huge problem and a reason why survivors would complain about killers being OP. Also, this wouldn't be the survivor's fault. I know this is crazy asking killer mains to try to use their empathy bone but... imagine almost every game you played you were matched against players 6-8 ranks higher than you. It would be frustrating. If you didn't KNOW they were 6-8 ranks higher because they had your same rank you'd think the game was imbalanced wouldn't you? That survivors were OP?
And guys, to be clear, these numbers don't add up into perfect 25/50/75/100 categories because they are sums of all games. So adding up your 0k this game, 2k this game and 4k that game etc, you'll get like 97,640 kills out of 136,696 survivors. The totals for the strongest, most popular killers settle out around 3ks per game. If we're defining balanced as 2ks, that's not balanced.
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Maybe the best argument against myself is that the game isn't balanced around kills but around ability to make BPs and pips. And I have been in many games where i was part of a 3k or 4k but we all pipped or even double pipped and/or got loads of BPs. So maybe for game balance the stats we want to see are the pips and points? How many times do survivors pip vs spirit, freddy. billy as opposed to clown etc? I'd imagine that the results are similar... lower pip rates with those killers but it would probably appear less imbalanced than this data. I'd bet it would still show that Billy needs to be nerfed.... ; )
You shouldn't base balance on stas alone. In 2016 killrate was 50-60% as well, yet any decent survivor was practically invincible. If you argue with stats, we may as well buff nurse and huntress. Billy and Freddy are finally usable base killers, thats where killers should be to keep up with toptier M2 killers. Then we can balance the game around that powerlevel. Not gonna lie, those high killrates are unexpected, but cherrypicking some stats works for both sides. Buff Nurse cause stats is a stat argument, yet unreasonable. Solo vs SWF needs to be adressed, since that powergap is nurse vs clown.
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Dont forget EGC. Turns a lot of previous 3k's into 4k's without balance changes. That alone could explain the increase in killrate. I dont feel anything has changed balancewise.
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Just play the game and dont get triggered about literally everything.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867555#Comment_867555
Nurse has had 2 major nerfs. No other killer has been nerfed that hard.
Remember she had 3 standard blinks with normal movement speed when she came out.
She's been run over by a bus.
She had 103% movement speed. Run over by a bus, destroyed, completely and utterly demolished from S-tier into S-tier!
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867078#Comment_867078
I just want good survivors and good nurses to be treated the same. Adding the cool down mechanic is like forcing r1 survivors to have a cool down before working on another gen. I bet a good nurse couldn't beat 4 good survivors now. They can use the maximum of 2 blinks with standard distance plus the cool down to their advantage. BTW, they all have dead hard so that is 3 actual perfect blinks every time before they go on a hook. To have a perfect game, that must be done 3 times to each survivor...unless you camp them to death.
Like survivors get nerfed for 3 years now? While Nurse got her first nerf?
*wait, there was one shortly after release. Her second nerf