WeaverReaver42
WeaverReaver42
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908196#Comment_3908196
That is definitely the problem at HIGH LEVEL play. At lower levels it's not nearly a hard to get a win even with bad killers. That's a problem when the skill floor for those better killers isn't much higher than average (blight is the hardest of the two, and I can play him moderately well) while also outright having no obvious ways to counteract those strengths or have any points of weakness. High level survivors already know enough things to even the playing field, but low level survivors have yet to learn all of this (otherwise they would be rising in the MR system). This means those killers actively stifle the growth of both killers and survivors at the same time. Worse killers are less effective to start with, and don't ever make up that difference. Bad survivors have no chance against those killers, and because all of the other killers are much more easily countered, the best players can't be given the right tools to stop Blight and Nurse without making characters like Trapper irrelevant.
That being said, survivors DO COMPLAIN WAY TOO MUCH.
Kaneki hasn't even been out a full week even now- and yet people act like there is nothing more to learn and he is unstoppable (I've already won like 2 games against him almost solo if felt like).
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907732#Comment_3907732
That's exactly what's been happening. "I'm tired of seeing X killer all the time!" Then why do you want everyone who can compete with them to be nerfed? Food for their thoughts.
That is definitely the problem at HIGH LEVEL play. At lower levels it's not nearly a hard to get a win even with bad killers. That's a problem when the skill floor for those better killers isn't much higher than average (blight is the hardest of the two, and I can play him moderately well) while also outright having no obvious ways to counteract those strengths or have any points of weakness. High level survivors already know enough things to even the playing field, but low level survivors have yet to learn all of this (otherwise they would be rising in the MR system). This means those killers actively stifle the growth of both killers and survivors at the same time. Worse killers are less effective to start with, and don't ever make up that difference. Bad survivors have no chance against those killers, and because all of the other killers are much more easily countered, the best players can't be given the right tools to stop Blight and Nurse without making characters like Trapper irrelevant.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907732#Comment_3907732
The thing is that would be a much bigger task. I don't think they should be nuked (though there is no good way to nerf the Nurse without giving her the SM treatment, imo), but it is much easier to adjust a handful of killers down than buff like 25 others to be closer to them.
But ideally, it'd be an effort to uplift the C/D tier killers and tone down the S-tier killers so we have a narrower strength band. I don't think the extremes are healthy for the game.
So, you think my suggestions wouldn't fix the nurse power problem? Or are we just talking in a general sense that Behavior is unlikely to handle what they do to her well? I want to at least start the discussion on how to actually solve this problem that has been getting worse.
Don't get me wrong- punishing survivors for disconnecting should be removed now that we have bots- but survivors might still throw their games intentionally just because they are upset. That will make the experience worse (I've dealt with it first hand) and make any improvements moot.
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I am talking about this from the perspective of a killer main. I want to play killer- but queue has been so long for enough time I've been forced to see how things look on the other end.
Yeah, MANY survivors need to get better. However, there is only so much you can do when you are in a team-based game and you are the only one competent half the time. If survivors as a whole tried to get better, improving their skills rather than just equipping the "right perks", then we wouldn't see much problems at higher ranks simply because there would be less people relying on "meta" builds that are easily countered.
However, they aren't doing that. If they were, I wouldn't have so many easy games as trapper even as I rise up.
Yes- survivors need to get better… How do they do that? Any actual advice? The game doesn't really have any after the first two matches against a killer- and guides online can only cover so much in a general sense before each killer and how they work throws a wrench into things.
I hate having to wait to play the game with bad killers because survivors are getting tired of only playing the "good" killers. Both sides have the same issue of "better gun wins" where they ignore their actual ability to play well for the strongest toys. Those two facts are far more related than they should be.
Buffing "worse" killers doesn't change the fact they have no exploitable weaknesses. If there isn't a chink in the enemy's armor- how do you win the fight? you don't.
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@Reinami said:
Notice how those are the only 2 killers who are viable at the highest level of play?
If we took the best player in the entire world for each killer, I.E. the best trapper player, the best wraith player, the best nurse player, and so on. And pit them up against the best 4-man survivor team in the world, and had them play 10 matches in a row on the same map (pick one that doesn't have any or much RNG) what would the outcome be?
I'd guess that most killers would win maybe 1 or 2 matches. Maybe a handful could do 3. Excpet for nurse and blight, which i would suspect would actually reach that 50% winrate mark.
That is a bigger problem to deal with i feel.
If you nerf these 2 killers, then the top of the top mmr killer players who are playing against those types of teams, will start to go down in rank. What happens then? Then the survivor players start getting matched with weaker killer players because there is nobody left at the top. Then what happens? More and more people who aren't ready for teams like that start playing teams like that, and stop playing the game. Then we have a cascading effect where these top teams are getting weaker and weaker killers.
Except what you describe it essentially what is happening, with both survivors AND killers already. Every day since I've been back, even before Kaneki went live, there hasn't been a single moment the survivor blood point bonus was under 25%. Genuinely, most survivors AREN'T top tier players. The bully squads people talked about? How many of those are just better players kept at a lower MR because there is far more effort to deal with those two killers than anyone else preventing them from playing against people who don't need those killers to do well? How are people who play the worse killers meant to go against players who are equipped to deal with blight and nurse meant to overcome those inherent bonuses?
How are you supposed to let those other killers be good, if anything that buffs them will take nurse and blight over the edge?
If they really are the "only viable" killers, then that means they just need to bring them down to a lower level so they can make killer as a whole a better experience. If there are only two examples that "work" in high level, that means they are probably (definitely) overturned for low level, and killer as a whole needs to be changes to take into account high level play.
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@vBlossom_ said:
Survivor downed a lot or someone gets slugged? There are perks that let you give slugged survivors endurance AND heal them faster, which can stack with normal healing increases such as botany knowledge and med kits.
Sure, let me bring entire build dedicated to slugging so I can recover myself ONCE per trial. Especially good option when playing SoloQ.
Killer hanging around hook? If it isn't a Myers and gates aren't powered, then that's just free time if the person on hook isn't awful at looping. They have anti-camp and you can do gens while the killer is dawdling around.
It's anti facecamp and to give you perspective: basement bubba isn't going to charge this meter. This feature is almost useless as the range is too little.
Also who cares, if I play SoloQ and I'm camped by the killer, my game is already finished and I leave with 2k points.
Since I don't face camp I will have to take you at your word that anti-face camp really doesn't work. You know what that means?
It means you can pump out gen progress like no one's business while the killer wastes their time. Is it fun for the hooked survivor? no. However, you are at least denying the killer a free win rather than getting yourself killed going to the hook.
Although, there are STILL perks that also help with face camping on their own. shouldered burden (admittedly this one is slightly niche in terms of usefulness for face camping- but it also is just useful in more generalized scenarios as well, including tunneling) being the worst of these. If that isn't your cup of tea, you can try kinship to see the killer nearby and come from an angle they wouldn't expect. No? you want to run in and guaranteed get someone off of hook? Well- before you dedicate yourself to that game breaking prospect, maybe try to use reassurance that pauses the countdown when a survivor is hooked! It may not get them off, but it makes the killer have to take longer waiting on each hook state (great for adding pressure for later potential openings)! That last part is technically also true for camraderie, however that requires YOU to be on the hook. In both instances, it doesn't matter who the other person is or what their perks are- as long as you or them are close enough and one of you are on a hook? Free delay!
But let's get into the meat and potatoes, how do you guarantee getting someone off of hook? Well, ignoring SWF where you can almost certainly just rush him as a group which is obvious- however solo queue also has TWO options that doesn't rely on others.
The first is letting the survivor survive on hook until end game…. which is easier said than done but I've already mentioned how you can delay the inevitable. Why? Because No One Left Behind activates and you take 1/3rd of the time to pull someone off of hook. Pretty instant to be honest, but that's at a point where you are essentially running the victory lap. What if you are still in the match?
Here you finally might have a point: you are right in that this will take at worst three perk slots…. which is still one less than an ENTIRE build- but that's the price you pay for ignoring a game mechanic. Getting the perks spine chill, resilience, and dead hard- you can tank a hit from the killer even when injured. In this state you are given a total of 10% extra unhooking speed- which means they specifically have to take something like StBfL if they want to recover from that hit fast enough to actually get you down and prevent further attempts. Otherwise, your three perk combo combined with your already faster unhook speed compared to them recovering from an attack? It easily gives you an extra edge if you aren't injured already. Which will only give you a pitiful 4% extra speed for being in view of the killer. Which considering this is about combating face camping, feels like not a hard ask of a condition.
Keep in mind, the percentages I got from those perks? That was them at tier two out of three. The Speed gets HIGHER if both are at their maximum tier. A total of 15% together if you assume they only increase by half of what the give you at the second tier.
Heck none of these methods are even mutually exclusive- with the right combination of perks, tactics, and a little luck in the circumstances a SWF could do ALL of those things in a single match. There are four perks EACH for survivor. The killer has 4 perks TOTAL. Surely you can see how the versatility you are allowed in your builds might give you an advantage in coming up with solutions?
Remember, all of this is ON TOP of the fact that they can't actively stay within a certain distance without risking the survivor being able to free themselves.
….. oh wait. I also forgot second chance perks that AREN'T dead hard. Heck- anti tunneling is also a perk category to be considered if you just need to cover your bases.
It's almost like having more people with the same amount of perks as your opponent is a BAD thing for them? Who would have guessed. It's like you are meant to leverage your numbers or something.
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@vBlossom_ said:
Survivor downed a lot or someone gets slugged? There are perks that let you give slugged survivors endurance AND heal them faster, which can stack with normal healing increases such as botany knowledge and med kits.
Sure, let me bring entire build dedicated to slugging so I can recover myself ONCE per trial. Especially good option when playing SoloQ.
Killer hanging around hook? If it isn't a Myers and gates aren't powered, then that's just free time if the person on hook isn't awful at looping. They have anti-camp and you can do gens while the killer is dawdling around.
It's anti facecamp and to give you perspective: basement bubba isn't going to charge this meter. This feature is almost useless as the range is too little.
Also who cares, if I play SoloQ and I'm camped by the killer, my game is already finished and I leave with 2k points.
To be honest, I was just talking about perks like no one left behind, buckle up, and for the people- but thanks for reminding us there are perks that you can take just in case other survivors fail to treat their side of the game as a team effort like intended! Now, even if the other survivors fail to do anything useful for you- it's just a matter of getting up to do things yourself! (I know it isn't that easy- but the point remains that you don't NEED to dedicate an entire build to preventing yourself from being downed. A single perk can make being put in the dying state MUCH less of an issue).
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TLDR at the bottom
The good
Global detection: makes her less reliant on survivors going into specific areas to get information- If a survivor is near a drone during this, they are stuck in a catch 22 and get caught.
The drone changes: being able to move traps without waiting for two animations just to place it slightly to the left is great for time efficiency. Them being able to damage survivors also creates an immediate threat for pressure instead of just a passive application that eventually makes you "win chase". The increased stealth of the scan lines is also helpful to more easily surprise survivors, which is important since a trap killer that is remotely balanced has their traps as the make or break portion of the kit (AKA, the traps are how you win, not just picking the character).
The uncertain
Global Detection: We do not know how often or how long the ability will be active. We do not know if interacting also counts as "standing still" (interacting is the most common survivor action, if you count that as "standing still" they will be invisible 9 times out of 10. This also applies to crouching since it's so easy it might as well be the default movement of the game for how often it is used).
Drone changes: The battery mechanic will be the main restriction on your ability to close in and lock down survivors. Since moving them takes power, requires you to stop controlling the killer, and doesn't do anything to prevent them being hacked once you finish- how fast they can move under your control will be an extremely deciding factor on if this approach is helpful or just wasted time on a bad mechanic.
The Bad
Global Detection: Being able to Crouch to ignore a map wide ability means the power will be useless almost every time.
Drones: If damage and detection is all the drones provide, then they are only useful when you AREN'T near them.You have to be the one controlling them to do the attack and their detection is most likely only going to catch a survivor who is already hiding from global detection. This means your best chance to catch a survivor is when global detection is up (see the uncertain section) or for a survivor to get caught unaware while you aren't preoccupied with someone else (better players could multitask hopefully, but that increases the killer difficulty if it becomes a requirement). These are very strict conditions for something that many perks can do, making the drones situational at best.
Hacking: Without an increase in the danger from a failed hack, this makes survivors simply more easily equipped to Declaw her of the only damage she has not relying on basic attacks.
My thoughts
Overall Skull merchant has 2 means of detection, both of which have glaring weaknesses, that will make them only useful when used together as is described. Her only lethality option relies on you being far away, negating the potential for an additional hit because it is also destroyed. Detection has no real threat beyond being seen, which isn't as useful for trap killers who are meant to make certain areas dangerous and lead survivors there instead of simply chasing. She has nowhere near the personal threat to force survivors anywhere beyond "away from the traps", which defeats their purpose of detecting people with them. Even with hacking: The survivors only risk being seen and a single health state at worst, the killer risks losing their means of control and damage at that spot. That sounds like a bargain for a survivor looking for an edge, and a bad deal for any killer wanting a chance to win.
The killer fails to embody the game play of characters like Trapper and Hag, while also not being good enough at detection or stealth to claim those as strong suits either. Her design feels like the gutting of what she is meant to be, while also not providing enough to help her become whatever it is that you tried to make her.
You wanted her to have her ear to the ground constantly, but made it impossible from how restrictive the global detection is with the easily avoided nature of her drones. Her Mechanics seem to do nothing to actually deter survivors from just ignoring her and working on generators when the global power isn't forcing them to wait and do nothing, making it even less engaging and fun to go against. Her ability to actually hurt survivors is simply throwing a drone at them and hoping you can find them again before they heal. Trapper at least would keep the survivor stuck for a second or so, and he'd actually benefit from placing his traps if only for the speed boost to help him set up faster and get to actually killing.
Her limitations come with not enough lethality, her Perception is has nothing in terms of presence, and her design is without reward for any dedication.
TLDR
Red light green light is too easy to avoid to have the same mechanics as dredge's nightfall. Drones have two opposing objectives/interactions, making both avenues of approach skull merchant could take worse and less effective for it. She has no way to actually take advantage of the information she gains without losing a drone for it, or even any means to easily find or reach them again when she does give up a drone. She also cannot efficiently deal with more than one survivor at a time, meaning she creates areas easily ignored or avoided as escape becomes even more guaranteed.
Suggestions
1: Make the detection need to build and with anything that isn't running (walking, crouching, and doing nothing where interacting is also treated as walking) increase the time until survivors become detected rather than immune. lockers could reduce their detection slowly to give time for another strategic movement, or just be a safe haven to ride the duration out.
2: While detected by the green light/red light mechanic, survivors should be more vulnerable. Either they are exposed while detected, or Skull Merchant applies deep wound to them under the same conditions.
3: Drones keep some of the changes mentioned in the preview post, except the drone does not apply the global detection effect. Instead they should gain the ability to increase the rate of detection build up for anyone caught by them for a short time during the global detection. People who hide in lockers after wards have to wait until the effect goes away to begin losing their detection amount, but don't gain any more while inside even near a drone (preferably by "boosting" their detection a tier. For example standing still boosted to walking, and to running if already walking. Running into a drone while the global detection ability is active should just be instant, because at that point they aren't even trying to hide or play it safe).
4: The drone harming the survivor counts as either a special attack or basic attack depending on if they are hit while detected.
5: A failed hack or being in range while detected, causes the drone to automatically follow the survivor, using less battery than if skull merchant were in control, but being unable to attack until Skull merchant takes over to land the blow after a short animation (this animation would not play if the drone weren't following someone, it can be seen by the survivor). Windows and pallet stunning could block and destroy the drone while it follows them. The Drone would stay closer than the maximum distance it can "dash" while controlled by skull merchant, but no closer than 5-7 M.
6: Make hacking mini games have a short time limit, and make that survivor immune to the drone's detection rate increase until the end of the next global detection.
Reasons for suggestions
1: This will force survivors to respect the ability while it is active, allow them to act normally when it isn't, provide counter play and new utility for lockers, and gives the skull merchant more consistent information.
2: This allows Skull Merchant to be enough of a threat during the global detection to scare survivors away or towards whatever they feel necessary, without making her such a threat that she is unapproachable even without it. It also provided enough reason for survivors to actually engage with avoiding the power, instead of just getting out of dodge before the killer arrives.
3: The synergy with the drones and global detection were good and interesting mechanically, the only issue was it became required to gain any significant utility from the power. Now the power gains MORE utility when they are used in tandem, without negating the locker counter play. Having the ability to injure survivors with the drones also means they can still be a threat without global detection, but not a death sentence- context and timing will matter.
4: When not being detected, it affects a survivor as normal- a trouble but no big deal. When they are detected it's just another tool the Skull Merchant uses to finish you.
5&6: this balances out the risk of hacking a drone compared to the reward of knowing exactly where the killer is, while also granting additional counter play against the global detection that is fair to the killer. A survivor getting caught or failing a hack now have a need to quickly negate the threat, and grant the skull merchant a chance to punish their failure without a guarantee the survivor gets hit.
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@SeriousRain said:
Hello everyone, I would like to ask what is community opinion on latest killer before Ghoul comes out soon in just few days.
As for me, I think she is fun and quite strong killer. Her perks are below avarage and situational. Do people still play her? For the past days I can't find match againts her.
Genuinely regret not trying her immediately after the bug fixes. I had been under the impression by the community she was awful- which made me upset since it was the only example of a "follower" power in DBD that looked like what I wanted to see. Thankfully they made it to where you get "temporary" auric cells during the PTB to buy and try out killers. I was able to try her after Kaneki, and realized she WAS what I was looking for. She is to knight what Xeno was to dredge IMO. You have slightly less control with the power, but it's still LEAPS AND BOUNDS better in the aspects I wanted the power for. Xeno can get across the map and be a constant presence, Dredge could go anywhere that had a locker- but other than that the power was just worse. Knight can summon different guards, but they don't have the threat and utility as easily available compared to the doggo. Can I go faster as knight following the guards? Sure, but HoundMaster is faster still AND I can stop survivors from booking it EVERY SINGLE TIME I get close with my buddy once they recover from taking me across the map.
As for the perks? The scourge hook one is my most preferred- It's ALSO the exact perk I'd been hoping would be added for years until she came out. The fall to lunge perk is situational in a good way- it's more potent than the more generally useful perk to make up for the situational nature. Seriously- I would only prefer COUP DE GRASP if there were literally NO drop offs nearby. Otherwise I could make a minor detour to get a guaranteed hit. Her anti-heal is the only one I am unsure of, since I haven't used it in an anti heal skill check build. However, making survivors broken mid heal is POWERFUL- even if they don't have hemorrhage.
Overall? My favorite chapter, even the survivor was neat in concept and execution when I normally don't even look twice at the survivor side of content updates.
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Nah, all of you are being defeatist and are willing to ignore things right in your face to hate this killer before they come out.
The ONLY issue I have seen be talked about that is accurate to what they've told us so far, is the lack of stealth. Don't get me wrong, It's sad she's less stealthy, however she is still OBVIOUSLY a trap killer. You can still put stealth perks on her if it really means that much to you. Heck, she might even have add-ons that give her extra stealth- they haven't even shown those yet. Out of everything, being upset she is less stealthy is the ONLY remotely justified complain I have seen so far. Everything else feels more like looking for a reason to be upset, to the extent of making stuff up.
If being able to hurt a survivor with the "trap" meant you weren't a trap killer, then even TRAPPER wouldn't be considered one.
"oh but it moves" yeah, if you spend a resource to make it- which runs out passively when controlling it and most likely will do so even more when you try and move it. It's like if people said Death Slinger isn't a ranged killer because you can hit a survivor in melee with the attack. It's added utlity, not the entire point of the power. Not every trap has to be "stay right there and do 'X' when someone steps on you", that would be painfully boring design-wise to work with. That restriction might is probably a good reason why we don't have MORE trap killers. Other than teleporting like hag (and to a much lesser extent dredge), we have almost no killers who place something in an area to make it more dangerous. It doesn't help that once you know the 'threat range' of a trap their usefulness goes into the gutter (again, see trapper, poor guy can't lock down a loop to save his life and that's his gimmick) at least the mobility it gives makes that a changing variable. Heck, like they said it also grants counter play and engagement.
Most of you ignore the fact it still detects survivors like before- it's just now they can't see the area as easily. It's "stealthier" now than it was before, and that's without considering the potential to see a survivor trying to sneak by and get a quick injure. (technically you could do this with red light green light, but I don't hold much hope for that change as they've described it).
Other than the insane amounts of status effects survivors hated, she's not nearly as different compared to what people say- just streamlined, improved, and plenty extra added on top.
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Thank you for saying this. It's hard to give good feed back if they are asking questions that can't be useful in any capacity because we haven't seen any real gameplay. Granted, the idea on it's face isn't putting the best foot forward, but that's just a prime example of how seeing the power in action is important. Plenty of powers sounded awful or amazing, then we realized they were the opposite.
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Disregarding the obvious "let's see how they actually play first" angle- I am breaking this into three parts, with each part being how each concern fits in the overall picture, which should hopefully come together to give the devs (Thank you for this game btw, despite the ups and downs the quality has been improving over time even if the community refuses to admit it) an idea of what someone who didn't hate skull merchant would like to see in the future.
[Warning: way too long for sane people]
The fact a majority of her power is just information makes me hesitant to give these changes the go ahead on principle. I think being able to control and attack survivors with drones is amazing to make up for that. However with the power resource and how it's described, I worry that simply keeping the power up or re maneuvering it will be more cost than benefit. If the power resource drains too quickly on your drones through movement and/or just passive loss, then using it as a "trap" is no longer an option outside of the "trapper/dredge classic" where you use your power at a pallet or window to pressure the survivor into leaving and not much else. There are already too few trap killers compared to mobility rush down maniacs, removing another one of the few trap killers remaining will just gut me inside (Freddy's new kit is great, but you aren't setting things up on your own terms anymore, making it harder to justify keeping him in the "trap" category for my personal definition. Still far better than the old version, mind you, I just no longer see him as being focused on area control).
I understand wanting the drones to not be able to totally shut down an area, but depending on how inconsistent they are after these changes you may have a dredge or Myers situation where you are stuck waiting for the "power hour" and then going back to being mediocre (I'm talking about pre-QOL changes to Myers, I haven't had a chance to play the new version enough to articulate my feelings beyond "better than before"). The area and speed of the scans will determine how useful they are on their own, and if they aren't good enough then they become useful only for throwing at a survivor when you lead them to an area (which makes my previous concerns about the longevity of the drones with the new power resource more important).
The green light red light power I worry is too easily countered, meaning you NEED to rely on your drone's ability to scan people who aren't just running (which already could give their position away without using your power, mind you). Considering I already raised concerns as to how consistent the drones on their own would be, you could imagine there would be moments where you are left without a power and nothing to do about it but wait. The sad part is I would love to recommended one of two alternatives*, but both rely on lockers protecting you from detection in general during this period- however with how map generation works, lockers would be too inconsistent for that to not hurt survivors (as a dredge player, trust me when I say it's coming from first hand experience).
(the alternatives previously mentioned are that you can be detected any time when not in a locker during the "detection" moments of the power. To balance this out crouching would either make the detection far less consistent/precise- or even just grant you some time before the detection is reported to the killer so you can find a locker to hide in)
Overall, while this direction of skull merchant isn't a deal breaker- I do feel there is A LOT on your plate to balance to keep the killer from being impotent. Info is always useful as killer, but there are plenty of perks that already give that with few caveats. Any power that tries to do the same thing as those perks need to make up for how many of them are either 1: easy to trigger- 2: Precise enough to be valuable- or 3: consistent enough at detection to be generally useful. Unfortunately Skull merchant seems to have a 3 power combo where 2 of them are just for information, each one hopefully ticking two of the boxes (which is good since all three in one power would be too strong, but only doing one of them would make it less valuable than a perk doing something similar on another killer).
I really hope it's leading to a new trap play style where you place your traps, find survivors, and corral them to your traps so they have to be forced to dodge you AND the drones (though If that IS the case, add-ons that alter the behavior of the drones during and post drone control would be REQUIRED for newer players until they get a handle on her). I'm at least glad you can control the drones directly, meaning you don't have a nemesis situation of hoping one of your zombies miraculously gets their turn with the brain cell when you need it the most. Luring survivors to their doom is the exact thing I want from a trap killer.
(The rest of this is mostly off topic, so please forgive the rambling and ignore if necessary: on the subject of nemesis zombies If you ever made a power similar to his, but you could direct the zombies to slowly wander in a direction/ a specific area, I would buy that killer with real money day one if I heard about it. The only reason I have knight and dog lady/my new main, is simply because they are the closest to what I want from nemesis' power. I don't need the zombies to be fast or strong, I just want my horde to at least be willing to listen to their master. Heck, if the copyright holder won't let you change him, feel free to make a bug based killer that does basically the same thing with "pheromones" or something. I'll probably go in depth on this idea somewhere else, but I wanted to say my piece here while I thought of it)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i think people play killer that are fun. part of the having fun as killer is the killer power being strong and fulfilling to use. lots of killer powers are not fulfilling to use.
This exactly. I want to like singularity, for example, but it's not exactly a friendly killer to people learning. Not to mention their power is countered so easily and for so little reward- there isn't much point playing them. (seriously, Hux's power is just breaking pallets and vaulting windows faster. I could do that with perks without having to set up ahead of time)
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@Seraphor said:
People asked to make it more chase oriented, they did.
In theory, not in practice.
Every SM still plonks their drones right next to a gen, and then immediately returns to that gen the moment their drone is deactivated.
why would people deactivate a SM drone, didn't they change it so you don't get detected while not moving/doing gens?
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649314#Comment_3649314
What? Basekit kicks take off 5% and survivors can no longer tap to stop that regression. How on earth is that unrewarding?
Base regression's low, sure, but I don't think it's necessary to raise it considering everything else they've done to improve killers' abilities to defend generators.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649322#Comment_3649322
There's definitely a point to be made about that skill check, but I don't think it's necessary to completely remove it, especially because it's basically the entire point of the perk. Just like remove the extra penalty or make it only stay there for 30 seconds and then buff the regression aspect of the perk to compensate.
@Topic:
Always felt like the nerfs to both especially Call of Brine were a little too harsh and felt like now would be the time to buff them a bit considering the generator changes, but I must say, we would have to be very careful about increasing their regression. They're still unearned regression that provide free extra value for nothing and could in theory be brutal when stacked together with some other kick perks.
I see where your coming from, but keep in mind you have a maximum of 8 times you can use the perk assuming you have no other regression getting applied (in which case the amount of times you can do it is reduced). You are also disregarding the fact that you are giving up perk slots for this regression meaning it already has steep competition to even be considered in the first place. The speed at which you gain regression is much less than if you just brought Pop or some other 'quick' regression perk, without being much more consistent even with the changes to gen kicking. All it takes is a survivor going behind your back for 5 seconds to negate your perk. Unless you intend to stay with the gen for the whole time it's regressing, you have a high chance of just not getting any value. Compare this to pop or Pain Resonance where as long as you play normally you are almost guaranteed a good amount of regression.
Simply put: the amount of gen regression it gives depends on how 'on the ball' survivors are, The effort does not match the reward when compared to other regression perks, you are limited in your chances to use it, and the regression you will get is gained over time rather than all at once meaning it is far easier to counter and react to for survivors once they realize you have the perk.
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@CammyChameleon said:
I agree with the lock on removal upon deactivation of a drone, but that's it.
Limiting a killers power doesn't change much but make it worse for the other side.
A big reason people don't play singularity as much. He can still replace his pods instantly.
Why this is balanced is he has to BE THERE to do it.
Same with SM, she has to physically go back to the spot to replace it she can't do it from afar. Sure she can recall it, but it's not like she can replace it from across the map, and that's why it's balanced.
With the new 3 gen changes and Visual effects to her scanner, I've had no issues playing against her, she's still annoying, but I don't hate her more than Clown or anything.
I'd prefer they focus on killers who actually need reworks and changes instead of changing a killer AGAIN that already received 3 reworks. (She's already confusing enough).
No matter how she is changed people will still DC against her.
The second to last part is so important to emphasize to me. imagine more changes like what we just got for hillbilly (Thank you behavior), but for other killers. Imagine a pyramid head with good addons, a freddy that's fun to play(I know it's a problem with licensing, but let a poor guy dream), or heck even a myers that doesn't run out of their power for the rest of the match and can't instakill you.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646515#Comment_3646515
I was going to do my best to give advice on how to deal with trappers messing with exit gates, but that last part made me realize you're less here to share a problem you think dbd has and more to complain. I wish you had made the fact you wanted to just complain about something more clear, or better yet just used reddit to vent, so I wouldn't have had to waste my time arguing.
also, if killer has closed hatch on you- It's SUPPOSED to be game over. Imagine playing as killer having to chase the same survivor for who knows how long because they keep opening the exit gate a minute amount before running away like a gremlin the moment your terror radius is even remotely audible. If a killer got to the exit gate AND the hatch before you (which trapper would have to, for you to be in the situations you described)? That sounds like a skill issue.
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@Nos37 said:
It's free in the sense that I still have a chance to escape through the exit gates against other killers if the hatch was closed, but not against Trapper.
What if disarming a trap near an exit gate switch disarmed ALL traps near exit gates?
Nevermind. It would still be heavily in the Trapper's favor. All he has to do is stand next to one of the exit gates instaed of standing in the middle of them. When the trap is disarmed, he re-arms the trap and goes to the other gate which is where the survivor is obviously at. They can reset the trap there by the time the survivor gets to the other gate to disarm.
The whole situation is stupid. Like Doctor making everyone without Clam Spirit yell "here I am!" stupid, or wallhack Myers stupid.
Just close this entire discussion and make survivors who face Trapper spawn on hooks in the basement. They have their 4% chance to escape before the Trapper shows up to lock the whole place down. Skyrocket his killrate to 98% and then we'll talk about this unfair mechanic again.
I was going to do my best to give advice on how to deal with trappers messing with exit gates, but that last part made me realize you're less here to share a problem you think dbd has and more to complain. I wish you had made the fact you wanted to just complain about something more clear, or better yet just used reddit to vent, so I wouldn't have had to waste my time arguing.
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yeah, no. Trapper players had to fight tooth and nail for getting all our beartraps..... and all we got was them being closer to generators and a small haste buff after placing traps. Trapper is THE weakest killer. Even with the few buffs he's recieved that's still the case. if you are losing to trapper, that's absolutely a skill issue. The effort a trapper would have to put in to have only 2 survivors leftis vastly more than any other killer would. If you got down to 2 survivors against a trapper, you played poorly enough that another killer probably would have a 3-4k by then. If you and another survivor can't handle 2 traps, then you probably can't handle most of what other killers can throw at you. Especially since his traps don't exactly stop people from shredding through generators like a Demogorgon through pallets, meaning he can't prevent you from doing gens unless he's physically there (meaning if you split up he can only stop one of 4 gens being repaired). Hell, if you are upset at this- do you think no way out and blood warden should be removed? Why not complain about perks that functionally do what you are talking about, but can be used on much stronger killers more likely to have 2 survivors left at endgame?
When trapper is buffed to a reasonable state (you can say that his kill rate is the reason he hasn't gotten buffed properly, but one look at pig and twins should show you the devs take their sweet time fixing things that desperately need it), and those perks are gone/changed, then we can talk about preventing trapper from trapping the gates.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
There's always going to be a 'meta' build. People in this community like to optimize the fun out of the game for the other side. that's how it's always been. That being said there are steps you can take to weaken and counter this build, which is more than can be said for some other 'meta' builds that have come up
(before I get into this, I will say- grim embrace should have a caveat where it only works if all survivors are still alive. I think that would make sure it can't be used with tunneling to guarantee a good position, unfortunately that isn't a thing yet so we will have to make do).
Grim Embrace- This perk incentivizes spreading hooks, this functionally means they are in a win win scenario. They either A: get to tunnel someone out of the game along with the delay of the generator blocking. or B: Get intermittent slowdown as they wittle away at your hook states. Of the two, the latter is your better option. If possible, you want to prevent the killer from getting hooks on 'fresh' survivors as much as possible. However this shouldn't come at the cost of a survivor's life. Numbers are your biggest advantage and you need to work to keep that advantage at any cost. The more killers have to work to block the generators, the more time you have to repair them. This doesn't get into the fact that grim embrace is a temporary tool. Once all survivors are hooked and the effect ends, that perk does nothing, and you can worry about the other perks much more. As great as getting rid of it early sounds, this would come at the cost of hook states you need to protect you for when things get dicey. It's best to deny them the delay as much as reasonable without getting yourself killed.
SH:PR- A much simpler solution here: sabo the hooks. I know being pigeon holed into a playstyle isn't fun, but if they are going meta, you need to bring a counter. If you sabo the scourge hooks, then they are left without a lot of regression. Can they eventually get value from it later? sure. But preventing it from being on their terms as much as possible will make life inconvenient for them. If you do it right, you might even prevent a hook state, which is its own reward.
DMS- This is also not too difficult of a solution. Simply put: avoid or commit. If you are on a gen, you have to accept your going to be working on that gen for the next 30 seconds. This will deny the killer information on which gen is being worked on (assuming they don't already know), as well allowing you progress that would be denied had you left to unhook or panicked and left. If you aren't on a gen, it might be a good option to avoid starting one. You might get interrupted which means that gen is blocked until the 30 seconds are up. If you do think starting a gen is a bad idea, it would be a good idea to either prevent anyone else from getting downed/scourge hooked (see the previous perk advice) or at least get the hooked survivor off so they can heal and help with gens again.
Now, this isn't a guaranteed strat to win, and solo q probably won't be able to pull these things off. But neither of those were ever going to be the case. The point is, this build IS counterable. And if you know what you're doing, you can easily get a 4 man out. This build is annoying, yes. But there's plenty you can do to stop a killer in their tracks if you plan and play accordingly.
And before anyone makes a comment about how much effort this is to pull off compared to what the killer has to do to make it happen...... Keep in mind, there's only one of them. If things weren't easier for them to pull off, they'd likely not stand a chance. Survivors are supposed to win through teamwork and strategy. Killers are supposed to be the bull in the china shop. They are vastly different playstyles. The fact you have to put more effort in to counter the killer isn't a flaw, it's the point of the game's design.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
SH: Pain Resonance, Grim Embrace, Dead Man's Switch. Every game.
Listen, I have no issue with people running whatever perks they want, but I pointed out that this combo will be extremely obnoxious once the update rolls out (when the PTB first came out) and GUESS WHAT, you see it every game.
Tunneling is made more effective with this, SH: Pain Resonance will probably knock your SoloQ teammate off a Generator, suggesting they even get on a Generator to begin with, and now Grim Embrace acts as that extra safety net since if they avoid SH: Pain Resonance they still have another effect to proc Dead Man's Switch.
Bonus points if you pair it with Ultimate Weapon, because youll not only get information with it but also free Generator blocking, because who doesnt love not being able to touch a Generator for a full 30 seconds after the Killer hooks someone.
SH: Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch was a fine and balanced combo, it punished Survivors for being oblivious and not paying attention to anything, but I feel as if this combo was just made unnecessarily strong when Grim Embrace was buffed and other perks were introduced (Ultimate Weapon).
There's always going to be a 'meta' build. People in this community like to optimize the fun out of the game for the other side. that's how it's always been. That being said there are steps you can take to weaken and counter this build, which is more than can be said for some other 'meta' builds that have come up
(before I get into this, I will say- grim embrace should have a caveat where it only works if all survivors are still alive. I think that would make sure it can't be used with tunneling to guarantee a good position, unfortunately that isn't a thing yet so we will have to make do).
Grim Embrace- This perk incentivizes spreading hooks, this functionally means they are in a win win scenario. They either A: get to tunnel someone out of the game along with the delay of the generator blocking. or B: Get intermittent slowdown as they wittle away at your hook states. Of the two, the latter is your better option. If possible, you want to prevent the killer from getting hooks on 'fresh' survivors as much as possible. However this shouldn't come at the cost of a survivor's life. Numbers are your biggest advantage and you need to work to keep that advantage at any cost. The more killers have to work to block the generators, the more time you have to repair them. This doesn't get into the fact that grim embrace is a temporary tool. Once all survivors are hooked and the effect ends, that perk does nothing, and you can worry about the other perks much more. As great as getting rid of it early sounds, this would come at the cost of hook states you need to protect you for when things get dicey. It's best to deny them the delay as much as reasonable without getting yourself killed.
SH:PR- A much simpler solution here: sabo the hooks. I know being pigeon holed into a playstyle isn't fun, but if they are going meta, you need to bring a counter. If you sabo the scourge hooks, then they are left without a lot of regression. Can they eventually get value from it later? sure. But preventing it from being on their terms as much as possible will make life inconvenient for them. If you do it right, you might even prevent a hook state, which is its own reward.
DMS- This is also not too difficult of a solution. Simply put: avoid or commit. If you are on a gen, you have to accept your going to be working on that gen for the next 30 seconds. This will deny the killer information on which gen is being worked on (assuming they don't already know), as well allowing you progress that would be denied had you left to unhook or panicked and left. If you aren't on a gen, it might be a good option to avoid starting one. You might get interrupted which means that gen is blocked until the 30 seconds are up. If you do think starting a gen is a bad idea, it would be a good idea to either prevent anyone else from getting downed/scourge hooked (see the previous perk advice) or at least get the hooked survivor off so they can heal and help with gens again.
Now, this isn't a guaranteed strat to win, and solo q probably won't be able to pull these things off. But neither of those were ever going to be the case. The point is, this build IS counterable. And if you know what you're doing, you can easily get a 4 man out. This build is annoying, yes. But there's plenty you can do to stop a killer in their tracks if you plan and play accordingly.
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Singularity already puts in more work compared to other killers for the same effect, we don't need his power being nonfunctional because everyone gets to eliminate his power 24/7.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639393#Comment_3639393
I'm not trying to be rude, etc, just would genuinely like a more robust response. You hand picked things to retort with and made no real reply with substance. But Ill comment on the reply you had.
You don't have to mention working on gens together. It was simply an example of how you were partially incorrect.
After a player has hours of experience in the game, perk choices no longer affect your skill. But to a new player, it absolutely helps shape their play style. Their play style will determine their skill and effectiveness over the long term. I agree with you that no one is less good due to their perk choice. But in a general sense, a meme build, for example, makes the player 'less good' than an actual build in that trial, no?
I dislike when people make comments that seem 'factual' when its obviously just their opinion.
Just putting this out there: the reason survivors need to have their repair speed nerfed when compared to killer's ability to slow down gens is simple: there's more survivors then there are killers- and that numbers advantage is significant. you should have around 2 survivors working on gens (assuming they aren't blocked), if each survivor works on a gen alone that's 90 seconds to complete two of the five generators. Assuming it takes a minute to down a survivor, that's only a 30 second difference between a survivor going down and two out of the five gens needed being finished. If we assume the killer is more than 30 seconds away, then that killer has only gained 1 hook state in exchange for two gens. Killers are on a time crunch, and every second counts. If they didn't have any form of slowdown, it'd be near guaranteed that at least 2 survivors escaped every game- if not more. This isn't taking into account perks that speed up gen repair (not including prove thyself, I consider that more of a sidegrade where you get less gens done, but the ones you finish get done quicker).
Long story short: If we didn't have gen slowdown, you'd need chases to be WAY quicker for killers to have a chance at winning (assuming you consider getting a 2k a win, which I do). Chases taking less time would be not so fun for either survivor or killer. Gen slowdown is a necessary evil.
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@Caiman said:
The Tombstone add-ons should only let you kill survivors who are already on death hook, like Pyramid Head. I'd be fine with them receiving a new main effect, with the insta-kill being more of a side-bonus.
Can't you mori on death hook with offerings? Not saying I'm against the idea, I just thought that niche was already covered.
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@OrangeBear said:
Just tried a bot match.
All i can say right now is main event throw rate is incredibly fast, he throws blades faster than i can say "1,2,1,2,1,2"
His throw rate is basically the same as normal in main event from what I could tell. the only difference is you don't stop throwing and have no ammo to lose in that state. I will admit the ptb was a bit overtuned, but if I had to choose between old trickster (pre ptb) and what they've done to him. I'd go back in a heartbeat. I didn't even like old trickster, but the new version is just so much worse. He already had to hit you multiple times for a single health state, and was easily stopped by breaking line of sight. Now his maximum throw rate is reduced and he takes more knives to injure someone. Main event is slightly more common now, which is good I guess- but as I've stated it actually isn't all that much better than just throwing your knives excluding the lack of ammo.
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As you said, monitor and abuse is really good. But if you add that with aura reading? You can basically set up a kill zone before the survivor is even aware of what's happening.
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@MadMoeZel said:
while you CAN do that, how does it change that people are going to make single tunnels using the verticality?
for example a room of death with a hole somewhere in the ceiling to be grappled into. a 1x1 tunnnel going straight up with like 3/4ths of it being some kind of acid parkour tunnel, the top having a trap and there being more traps around the mouth at the begining, with like cannonbacks firing bombs down. why wouldn't people just continue the 1 wide tunnel style builds and just change the dimension it moves in?
your idea adds options yes, but it doesn't change the requirements of there being a path from start to genmat and back. i'm not fully against the idea, but i don't really see how this is going to encourage multi pathing any more than multiple floor paths would.
So, I was imagining a sort of 'chaining' system to the drop off points. You could select a drop off point, and have it 'connect' to another point that it would have to reach before trying to finish its path to the genmat. This would allow you to essentially 'force' the genmat carriers to take a more roundabout route. Of course there would have to be limits to the chaining, you don't want an infinite (or at least annoyingly long) loop of the carrier going in a circle between the same drop off points. Raiders have to be able to find the genmat after all. That being said, a lot of your post (if I am misinterpreting, I am sorry, this is just how I understood it) seems to be about changing the design of base building to make the builders HAVE to be more creative. That isn't my intent. While having the option of more varied bases is nice, so too should they be allowed to have simpler bases. Base building is supposed to be up to the players, therefore what kind of base they make should be up to them.
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@MadMoeZel said:
how does this change from a single straight line from start to finish? seems like it just makes that straight line go straight up and down rather than straight left/right?
Simple, you don't have to rely on straight pathways anymore. Nor does there have to be a pathway at all. latchers could theoretically have near full 360 degree movement, so long as an object is in range for them to attach to. Rather than walking from point a to point b, now you can make islands and open spaces for the latcher to travel to. The only restraint to their movement is they can't walk on their own like the regular transporter does.
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@Hodderfodder said:
Alright guy. Tell me the time you say no one is playing. I want to activate my base at that time and see for myself.
It's less that no one plays, and more I was assuming that I was having a less than average amount of people going to my bases. That being said I usually did it around 7 AM EST.
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This was amazing to watch!
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While twitch is a good start, youtube is also a good place to post videos (much like otzdarva does rarely). The more content is made for the game, the more people will be aware of the content that can be created from the game. People want to create, we just have to show them this is a place that will let them do that. Behavior keeps us updated on what's happening in the game, now we need to update the internet on how excited we are for it. Hype begets hype, after all.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
I think these actually sound pretty interesting. Some adjustments could probably be made, but I'm in favor of them experimenting with perks strong enough to be viable for one side but having counters from the other, even if it just a temporary killer aura-reveal for survivors.
I'd be curious to see how these would work in game.
Yeah, I love the idea of survivors and killer having to out-think and outplay each other. Rather than either side being 'stronger', each has it's tools that must be dismantled by the other side to help ensure victory.
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Behavior made naughty bear? I loved that game! didn't know they worked on it. I would absolutely love a plushy bear costume at the very least. Probably for trapper, I can remember the MC using beartraps at various points so it would be fitting.
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@The_Scarlet_Witch said:
This is what I had in mind, I took inspiration from WW1 gas warfare.
SPECIAL ITEM: GAS MASK
8 gas masks are located around the map which survivors can find and use. When using it will cleanse the effects of toxic gas and slowly build survivors oxygen meter back up, this can only replenish 50% worth of oxygen and is automatically destroyed after 30s.
PASSIVE: asphyxiation
Survivors start the trial with the oxygen bar. Survivors who come into contact with the toxic gas will slowly deplete this bar.
Upon reaching below 75% the survivors will be affected with the suffocation status effect. Survivors can passively gain oxygen back by staying out of toxic gas.
STATUS EFFECT: SUFFOCATION
Survivors gain suffocation when they reach 75% oxygen and can only gain the negative effects if they are in the toxic gas. Upon leaving the gas the effects persist for 15s
75%-50%: Survivors will loudly wheeze, cough and gasp for air.
50%-25%: Survivors lack of oxygen will affect their awareness of the environment.
25%-0%: Survivors can't heal other survivors or use exhaustion perks. The survivor will become suffocated if they reach 0%, once it has been reached they have 10s to find air or they will be put into the dying state.
SPECIAL ABILITY: INHALE
At the start of the trial 4 bombs are randomly places on walls and 4 are in your inventory. When going up to an already placed proximity bomb you can toggle to pick it up. Hold the active ability button to charge a throw. Once released depending on how much you charged it will travel through the air until it collides with a surface where it will stick too. Survivors who come into contact with them will make them explode releasing toxic gas.
SPECIAL ABILITY: INCINERATION
Hold the active ability button for three seconds to activate. You pull out a lighter which you try to light, when in toxic gas made by one of your bombs light the gas into a flaming inferno. Survivors caught within the gas will lose a healthstate, the killer will be stunned for 2 seconds and will become hindred for 5s.
SPECIAL ABILITY: TOXIC STORM
When the secondary gauge is full toxic storm will automatically activate. A huge mist of toxic gas will spread throughout the trial for a limited amount of time after it ends it fades away and goes on cool-down.
I have a problem with the bombs. a part of why trapper is bad is because of his need to collect his power which is spread out randomly, another part is the fact it relies on survivors to trigger it to do anything. The wall thing could cause a similar situation. That combined with how few you have makes me feel like you would have to rely on toxic storm for the most part. Not to mention that incinerate would essentially remove an instance of your power from the match permanently.
I also think there might need to be more specification on how the 50%- 25% effect works. Would it be like dredge's nightfall, or something else entirely?
Either way, this sounds like it would be hard to balance and would be stuck at either too strong or too weak.
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@The_Scarlet_Witch said:
I honestly don't really like it, its too similar to clown. Its not how I would write a concept like this either.
That's fair enough. If I might ask, what would you do with this concept? I'd be interested in hearing other ideas!
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401166#Comment_3401166
when his power runs out he's essentially slowed down for a second or two before returning to normal
cooldown addons reduce the time, making you return to normal quicker
thank you. I think I understand properly now.
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@Header said:
Blood fury cooldown is when your power expires
Wait so does it increase the time you have or decrease? because it sounds like it decreases?
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@BlueHorkew said:
Hey, i actually got an idea to make him more unique and removing the grab similar to wesker.
I already edited the idea in my post.
See if you like it xD
I love it, it gives the savage a way to earn points without just waiting forever, while also incentivizing chase against a survivor you've already hit.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Ok. Here goes some ideas of a rework. Say the elements you like and what you don't like. In the end, it's your vision and you that needs to be satisfied with the character.
The Savage: (4.6m/s TR- 32m)
Primal Thirst: For each second in chase you gain 1 point of primal thirst. You can have a maximum of 90 points. You gain 10 points when injuring a survivor and for the next 30 seconds, the thirst point gain is doubled and can stack (By chase time and injuries). Putting a survivor in the dying state gives 5 points and doubles the time before you start loosing points while not in chase for 30 seconds. After 15 seconds of not in chase you start loosing thirst points 1 per second.
Savage ways: By pressing the primary power button you enter a couching run, you can vault pallets and windows (1.5s) after which you gain a 50% Haste for 6 seconds and you see all vault points inside your TR highlighted in White , by holding the secondary ability button you enter a defensive stance, slowing yourself down, but any pallets drown into you are broken and you can't be stunned. You can press the attack button to do a short slash attack that inflicts Deep Wound but can't down injured survivors, if you hold the attack button (1 second min) (reduced movement speed while holding) you charge directly in front of you grabbing the survivor and then can throw him in any direction you want (damages and can down, but does not inflict deep wound). You do not gain Primal thirst while in the Savage Ways mode.
Entering Savage Ways (20 points, don't consume but you need this minimum to activate)
Costs of the power:
Loose 2 point per second while in run
Loose 1 points per second while in defense stance
Loose 15 points if defense stance breaks a pallet
Vaulting: 15 points
Deep wound attacks: 5 points
Charge grab: 15 points
Getting stunned while in savage ways mode: Get put out of Savage ways mode and loose 20 points.
Perks:
Master of the Hunt: After injuring a survivor from healthy to injured you see the aura of all other survivors inside your Terror radius for 5 seconds. This perk activates for the next 20/25/30 seconds, the next survivor you injure from healthy to injure with a basic attack gets inflicted with Deep Wound.
Hunter's Disposition- After vaulting you see the aura of survivors inside your terror radius for 6/7/8 seconds. This has a cooldown of 30 seconds.
Hex: Territorial Mark - After a survivor gets unhooked for the first time, that survivor becomes cursed, in the farthest way dull totem possible becomes a Hex totem. The survivor that is cursed cannot interact with that totem. Survivors running in a 12/14/16m range of that Hex have their auras revealed. If the survivor that was cursed dies, the totem becomes Dull.
Holy crap yes. I love this. I also like the way you balanced territorial mark and the idea for master of the hunt. As I've shown by my idea I'm not an expert in balancing, so I can't say for sure if the points are exactly perfect, however on the whole this is a vast improvement over what I thought of. I initially had a problem with the grab attack as I felt it's too similar to wesker's power. However I changed my mind thinking about it further. Overall, I have no negative thoughts about this change.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Ok, i need to stop giving flag at bhvr for creating so many killers now that you just pre drop and hold w for the survivors, because this is just another one of those xD
Pre drop pallets, hold W, nothing of what you do matters, let's just bore each other to death because the survivors can't deal with your power because of lack of counter play, so they hold W and you can't use your power at all.
Like, i understand the idea, but ultimately this killer is just stat buffs, it doesn't have a gimmick or theme. While i like the idea of a meter that you can use as resource to help you with different tools and effects, these effects just feel like buffs to what is ultimately just a M1 Killer, he doesn't have an unique skill or ability for you to master. Feels honestly kinda tame and basic for "The Savage"
Of your perks i would like for you to explain the Hex. Because if i understand it right, this is permanent wall hacks for the killer if a survivor is running. So no mind games in chases now? Did we forget Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of nurse, a perk like this would never be ok.
You make excellent points on this. Although a basic m1 killer was the idea I was going for, albeit stronger due to the ability to essentially have more control over a bloodlust-lite effect with a sort of myers 'danger state' where you're more powerful for a limited time. Essentially the killer would be forced to balance their use of their weaker base version of their power, with building up a good amount of primal thirst for the unleash to last a significant amount of time. I wanted a killer that is incentivized to chase on the killer end and to hide for survivors, making it a more cat and mouse game between survivors and killer. The thing to keep in mind is that it takes 5 seconds for even 1 stack of their power, which isn't enough to do much of anything, and the killer would be incentivized not to break pallets since that would drop chase. However, the longer the survivor runs the killer- the more stacks they will build up. This would hopefully change it from survivors pre-dropping into avoiding line of sight to begin with, since as long as the killer is in chase they are getting more of their power. dropping a pallet wouldn't do that unless the killer decides to prevent a stun and use up some of their charges, especially since the killer would be incentivized to just keep chasing rather than worry about the pallet immediately (assuming the pallet isn't totally preventing the killer from continuing in that general direction). As for the lack of counterplay, many people say myers is a weak killer because he is too much of an m1 killer and has too much counterplay (not talking about the tombstone because everyone can agree that's too much). I'm not saying you're wrong mind you, just wondering what you would say is good counterplay for a character like this? I figured forcing the killer to use up their power in various ways to prevent them from storing up a large amount of primal thirst was enough, but if you have alternatives, I'm happy to take suggestions!
The idea of the hex perk also didn't take into account nurse or to a lesser extent blight, so I can see how that would be a problem. The idea I had for the perk would be essentially an easily seen target for survivors to go after and remove. The area of effect where survivors would see the totem might be a bit small for that, and it's possible that while the totem is active, hex totems take less time to remove to balance it out somewhat. I was hoping that the killer would place the totems down (one at a time to prevent the killer just placing them everywhere and making it hard for survivors to get rid of them all). survivors would have to prioritize getting rid of them, and hide by crouching or just walking to avoid getting their aura read while someone takes care of the obvious totem.
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Trapper
(Purple) Springlock: After attempting to escape or free another survivor from a beartrap, the survivor must make a difficult skill check. After four successful skill checks the trapped survivor escapes with any effects from other addons applied. The first three failed skill checks gives the trapper an additional tier of bloodlust that remains as long as the survivor is trapped. The fourth failed skill check puts the trapped survivor into the dying state, removing the bloodlust given to the killer, and applying a 5% penalty to healing received for the dying survivor until they are no longer dying. If the trapper has less than their maximum amount of traps, they automatically retrieve their beartrap when picking up a trapped survivor.
I like this idea because it alters the way your traps work to make it more interactive for survivors once trapped, while also making collecting traps much easier. It does potentially allow survivors to escape from the trap faster, but they have to hit skill checks consistently to do so. Otherwise it allows you to reach the trapped survivor, or someone you are chasing at the time, faster than you would otherwise. It becomes a risk vs reward addon. I think it might be too strong for a purple addon, but considering trapper's overall state I think a little leeway on this would be justified.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3358838#Comment_3358838
All of this would make sadako not just a snowball killer, but one who you couldn't stop from getting the ball rolling. The moment you found your first survivor through teleport and hit them, that survivor is basically screwed if you try to tunnel them out (which condemned lowkey incentivizes as it is) because you can prevent them from removing condemned with constant chases and teleports if you play your cards right.
i have to say. I was laughing hysterical when reading this entire post. Your post is complaining that Sadako is able to tunnel. Here is some a news flash. Most of the other killers are able to tunnel and secure kills with varying degrees of success. If all other killers are allowed to tunnel, why is Sadako suddenly special treatment?
The speed at which you could kill survivors would far surpass their ability to do gens. Especially since you could just teleport right to a gen through a t.v. to scare them off. and you would easily scare them off because If they don't leave, they've got a guarantied 2 condemned on them now and they are at risk of the new-sadako tunnel.
So one of build-in mechanics in sadako's kit is that her TV emit directional audio cues when the sadako emerges from a television. This audio cues is global if VCR add-on is used. This is another one of those extremely bad designed mechanics that I do not want go into but my point is that if survivor is playing well vs sadako, Sadako should never get a hit from television teleportation with current balance. You can shift-W from TVs. The only way you can get hit by this is if the survivor is deadzone which itself is mistake made by the survivor. In my opinion, TV should not have any directional audio cue because this sadako is suppose to be stealth killer but whatever.
You would have so much pressure so quickly, it wouldn't be slowdown anymore- it would just be a waiting game to kill a survivor.
Right. that is how every killer is. It is how it is suppose to be. your not suppose to be able to survive the killer endlessly. your suppose survive against the killer long enough to complete all 5 generators. In sadako's case, your trying to survive the 7 days similar to lore.
But what you suggest means that the 'all' aspect will be the most likely scenario far too often. Having condemned slowly apply more debuffs keeps the power from being unstoppable. incentivizing survivors to remove condemned consistently without applying it so often that they have no chance of removing it fast enough to survive ( therefore providing slowdown like it's supposes to if they remove it, and making them more vulnerable/ easier to deal with if they don't).
This is just my opinion but I think that Condemn is already very rewarding mechanic for the killer that does not need potency buffs. I think your changes towards condemn mechanic are little bit like developer update killer buffs. They're buffing that do nothing and help nothing. Placebo changes. When I suggest changes, I am thinking of changes that will put a killer into a strong powerful position. Not 0.2 pallet breaking and other meaningless changes like GF, Clown changes etc. The change in my opinion would soft-fix sadako. I still think her stealth in chase, her directional lullaby, Long cooldown on TV, directional TVs make her a weak killer however I think she would be a lot stronger at base-kit and less add-on reliant(Add-on would still help her though). They would need look into those other elements in her kit if they were looking to improve to A-tier-S tier level. Just a simple change of adding 1 condemn stack on injure/down would make the condemn mechanic a lot more threatening. Like I said, I do not see them buffing her but I am fine with suggesting changes to improve her.
If making sadako do condemned on hit wouldn't stop her from being weak, then why not just fix the stuff that makes her weak in the first place rather than make her ability to mori survivors easier?
Also, My problem isn't that sadako CAN tunnel. It's that her kit is DESIGNED around tunneling. doing one or two condemned does nothing to a survivor. You have to do it over and over to get anything out of it, focusing on only one survivor with no regard for the rest of the game. I like having the choice of whether or not to tunnel, not being hemmed in because a killer is so bad they have to turn a 4v1 into a 3v1 to actually stand a chance.
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@AGM said:
The problem with blindness is that it's one of those mechanics that disproportionately negatively impacts solo queue players over SWFs on coms, and is incredibly hard to change or balance as a result. Would it be nice for blindness to be of more use to killers? Absolutely. But would buffing blindness be fair or fun for solo survivors when comparing them to SWFs on coms? No, I don't really think so.
Without some way to adjust blindness in a way that makes it fair for everyone, I'd be much more in favor of buffing or reworking blindness add-ons entirely. As an example, let's look at Freddy's add-on 'Unicorn Block'. Currently, survivors are inflicted with blindness for 60s when stepping on a dream snare. I'd like to see BHVR either massively increase the time of the effect to, say, 120s, or just rework the add-on entirely. (And his Sheep Block add-on should just be changed entirely to a different effect.)
You make an excellent point. I had somewhat forgotten about SWFs. I do think massively increasing the duration of these blindness effects could help as well to mitigate the weaknesses without hurting solo queue too much. It would also solve the problem with most add-ons using blindness by allowing you to quickly apply the blindness and go about your business elsewhere- making much more appealing if you want to keep survivors in the dark. Granted that still doesn't change the fact that SWF will be relatively unaffected by the debuff, but there's only so much we can do about that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357323#Comment_3357323
i think hooking provide little to no slowdown in 4vs1 because chasing 1 survivor, 1 person for unhook and 1 person on the hook occupies only 3 survivors therefore 1 survivor can still be doing generators. This is assuming killer is perfectly successful at every single chase. A single misstep will result in a fast loss when 1 or 2 generator are remaining. One or two generator is inevitable for the killer because of how early game plays out with killer in regards to large gen spread and all the strong pallets that exist at the start of the match. The killer only gets good map pressure through hooking in my opinion in 3vs1's because no one can be on generators as long as killer is successful in winning the chase. you have to outplay the killer in the chase to physically progress generators as opposed to the 4vs1 where survivors can continuously can be poor at looping but still progress the objective at relative pace. this largely summarizes why killers tunnel. In sadako's case, slugging replaces hooking because hooking a survivor makes you lose condemn stacks since unhooking a survivor does not grant condemn stacks but healing someone off the floor does.
that cheating hookstates is the point of condmned. However, it takes just as long if not longer to condemn someone than another killer could just hook them.
of course it takes longer because the only two method to increase condemn stacks is to a) heal another survivor(when ringing draw is used) and b) be next to a television within 16 meters when a teleport is used. both of these actions are controlled by survivor. In order for TV to grant condemn, the survivor has to actively ignore active televisions when repairing generators. survivor will ignore televisions when their condemn status is low but if their condemn status is high, they will take a tape out of the TV in effort to remove condemn stacks which turns off the tv. you cannot teleport to a tv and it is significantly harder to gain condemn stacks on moving survivors that are not on generator that actively avoid being near TV's. The other way to gain condemn stacks is healing another survivor however the ring drawing add-on is very easy counter with self-healing actions. You get another survivor to heal you to 99% then just use med-kit to 99 the complete heal. Even a brown med-kit has 16 charges... so that is 16 chances to avoid condemn by 99% healing. The other very common meta perk that unlocks self-healing action is circle of healing and that works infinitely so the add-on is very easy to manipulate for survivor. The only way for you to force condemn stacks with ring drawing is slugging but that process is very slow and sadako is basic m1 killer who is very easy to loop. Getting m1 downs is not exactly easy when you have near non-existent chasing power. The condemn mechanic is badly balanced towards the survivor's favor. Survivors is controlling the effectiveness of the killer power. A killer whose power is entirely controlled by survivor can never be strong. The killer is lacking input in their play to influence the effectiveness of the ability.
A power shouldn't be an instant win button, but it also shouldn't be inferior to just using base game mechanics.
I disagree. I think powers are suppose to be instant win buttons when survivor is unsuccessful at countering the ability and the killer is using the power at peak performance simultaneously. In Onyro case, her power is the mori and mori either work or do not work at all. Onyro power is an all or nothing ability.
(TLDR at the bottom)
I see your points, and they are good ones (though I do disagree about the hooking thing, even if there is still a survivor on a gen- it's less survivors than there would be if they didn't have to worry about their ally dying without help). However, I am not saying sadako isn't a dumpster fire right now. Nor am I saying what I suggested is a complete solution to sadako's problems. I just think making condemned be applied on a hit is too much. If it were something like a hit specifically after manifesting (or hell just manifesting next to a survivor within a close distance) I'd be much more agreeable. But survivors would have little counter to a condemned stack every single hit, especially when you consider to get rid of condemned you have to grab a tape which increases your condemned progression and then get to another t.v. while your condemned passively goes up (granted it's pitifully slow so that's not really as big of a deal as the instant condemned a person gets when grabbing a tape). Imagine teleporting and then hitting a single survivor. Sounds fine right? Except if there's even a single survivor nearby then you've just applied 3 total condemned to two survivors. Even if they loop you for long enough for the other survivor to get rid of their condemned (which they likely wouldn't because that time removing a single condemned would be better spent doing gens even with how much more common said condemns would be) that's still 2 condemned from a single teleport. Worst case scenario if you dedicate after every teleport it will take you at maximum 4 teleports to make it a 3v1. Which even for sadako are odds the survivors will struggle to come back from if they have less than 2 gens done. That's assuming you don't run into anyone and hit them which would increase the condemned you have placed even more reducing the amounts of teleports you would need to kill that specific survivor down to three if they haven't received any condemned yet.
All of this would make sadako not just a snowball killer, but one who you couldn't stop from getting the ball rolling. The moment you found your first survivor through teleport and hit them, that survivor is basically screwed if you try to tunnel them out (which condemned lowkey incentivizes as it is) because you can prevent them from removing condemned with constant chases and teleports if you play your cards right. Before if you tried this, it would cost you the game because the other survivors would be doing gens while you slowly got condemned one at a time. Now? They would be lucky to get 2 done before the survivor gets mori'd because you could consistently get a minimum of 2 condemned per teleport assuming you don't hit them more than once and they are alone (and survivors WILL get hit if you focus on them after teleporting, it's just a thing that has to happen eventually in an even remotely balanced dbd match).
condemning on hit would turn sadako into a monster if it worked the way the person describes it. it would bring the minimum amount of teleports needed to kill a survivor that you target and tunnel from 7, down to 4. This is assuming you don't get multiple survivors with a condemned teleport or that you manage to hit survivors more than once after teleporting. The ring addon makes this worse because even if they can 99% healing, not every survivor will do that -and there are counters to self healing that you could take advantage of. The speed at which you could kill survivors would far surpass their ability to do gens. Especially since you could just teleport right to a gen through a t.v. to scare them off. and you would easily scare them off because If they don't leave, they've got a guarantied 2 condemned on them now and they are at risk of the new-sadako tunnel. You would have so much pressure so quickly, it wouldn't be slowdown anymore- it would just be a waiting game to kill a survivor. This is all without considering that condemning gets easier the more gens get done since there's less guessing involved in where survivors are. Less gens=more likely to hit multiple survivors with a teleport condemned.
There's a difference between an instant win because you outplay them, and an instant win because they CAN'T outplay your power.
TLDR: The amount of time it would take to fully condemn and mori a survivor would be reduced too much if you applied condemned on hit because of both how consistent it would be and how much faster the condemned would add up from each teleport. This would lead to a 3v1 quickly which is much harder for survivors to come back from, especially if you already have some condemned applied to the others (which is likely). Would this make sadako better? yes. Would the Devs ever let it get past a ptb? Doubtful.
I want sadako to be good, I really do. But making every single hit apply condemned is too much even before considering the ring addon. as you said- her mori is an all or nothing. But what you suggest means that the 'all' aspect will be the most likely scenario far too often. Having condemned slowly apply more debuffs keeps the power from being unstoppable. incentivizing survivors to remove condemned consistently without applying it so often that they have no chance of removing it fast enough to survive ( therefore providing slowdown like it's supposes to if they remove it, and making them more vulnerable/ easier to deal with if they don't).
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/366064/an-onyro-rework
Comparing her condemned to other slowdown powers is disingenuous asf. Dream world can be safely ignored, pig boxes are limited in quantity and can be pretty reliably removed, and snap out doesn't lead to a mori.
To be fair, two out of the three killers whose powers you mentioned are considered not good (I don't know about doctor or how good they are considered). I think this is more of a case that Sadako isn't the only one suffering from behavior giving non-chase killers little to no help over the years. Freddy's power gives you less stopping power than Trapper's beartraps and you can't even use them as consistently, Pig has become the butt of DBD's most notorious joke because of how overnerfed she is, and sadako has a teleport..... and not much else. Seriously, her stealth powers are inconsistent at best and the mori takes forever to happen that you have to use an iridescent addon just to get the dang thing to be remotely a threat to good survivors. The main take away from this is even if her slowdown isn't particularly standout bad compared to other slowdowns, that's only because most slowdowns in the game are awful in their own right.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356211#Comment_3356211
Condemn is only impactful at max stacks, which as you said is hard to get. Making it easier to get condemned might not solve the problem, since as long as they don't specifically get to max condemned they are basically playing against a crappier wraith with a more limited freddy teleport. The mori is only a problem if you let it get to max stacks and then let yourself get caught (twice if you're healthy). You would get people doing the tapes JUST BEFORE max stacks, but for the most part they would remain unaffected meaning they would ignore it for gen rushing while you have almost nothing to show for it (which is how it is now).
This is whole description can be a summary of why killer tunnel survivors when hooking them. Hook-states have no meaning until the survivor gains 3 hook-states stacks. Survivors only get punished for getting hooked when their hook marker reaches 3 which results in them getting mori when successfully placed on a hook. this is same logic your using for condemn stacks. condemn is not punishing mechanic because it is only meant to punish you when you get 7 stacks similar to how hook-state work.
That's the best case scenario, worst case it works too well and games last way less time because survivors can't keep up with the fast condemned stacks leading to deaths with no need for a single hook. That's not fun to go against and is a fast track to her getting nerfed into the ground.
Cheating hook-states is entire point of sadako's ability. Isn't popular perception that sadako is one of worst killers in the game? I would almost argue that sadako is virtually already nerfed to the ground seeing as her chase, stealth, mobility and condemn mechanic are completely dysfunctional at base-kit. The killer is only using ring drawing to slightly make condemn less terrible and iri-tape to make her mobility slightly less terrible(which indirectly improves condemn as teleport & building condemn are connected). I am sorry if these two add-on buff her base-kit too much that it is unfun for you. Perhaps they need deletion so you can escape 100% of the time.
you say a mori is the most powerful debuff in the game in your previous post, and that cheating hookstates is the point of condmned. However, it takes just as long if not longer to condemn someone than another killer could just hook them. A power shouldn't be an instant win button, but it also shouldn't be inferior to just using base game mechanics. Trying to give condemned on every hit goes too far in the other direction, while just making it where condemned actually does something in the mean time like hooks can with perks is far more reasonable and easier to balance.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356211#Comment_3356211
Condemn is only impactful at max stacks, which as you said is hard to get. Making it easier to get condemned might not solve the problem, since as long as they don't specifically get to max condemned they are basically playing against a crappier wraith with a more limited freddy teleport. The mori is only a problem if you let it get to max stacks and then let yourself get caught (twice if you're healthy). You would get people doing the tapes JUST BEFORE max stacks, but for the most part they would remain unaffected meaning they would ignore it for gen rushing while you have almost nothing to show for it (which is how it is now).
This is whole description can be a summary of why killer tunnel survivors when hooking them. Hook-states have no meaning until the survivor gains 3 hook-states stacks. Survivors only get punished for getting hooked when their hook marker reaches 3 which results in them getting mori when successfully placed on a hook. this is same logic your using for condemn stacks. condemn is not punishing mechanic because it is only meant to punish you when you get 7 stacks similar to how hook-state work.
That's the best case scenario, worst case it works too well and games last way less time because survivors can't keep up with the fast condemned stacks leading to deaths with no need for a single hook. That's not fun to go against and is a fast track to her getting nerfed into the ground.
Cheating hook-states is entire point of sadako's ability. Isn't popular perception that sadako is one of worst killers in the game? I would almost argue that sadako is virtually already nerfed to the ground seeing as her chase, stealth, mobility and condemn mechanic are completely dysfunctional at base-kit. The killer is only using ring drawing to slightly make condemn less terrible and iri-tape to make her mobility slightly less terrible(which indirectly improves condemn as teleport & building condemn are connected). I am sorry if these two add-on buff her base-kit too much that it is unfun for you. Perhaps they need deletion so you can escape 100% of the time.
You are very much incorrect about hooks being useless. let's ignore all the perks that give you bonuses when you hook someone. the simple fact they can't do anything but wait for another survivor to get them off hook, functionally taking up the time of two survivors while you can go off to do your own thing, is very useful as long as you can capitalize on it. the difference between hooks and condemn is not only do you have to condemn far more times than it takes to hook someone, but you also don't slow them down in any meaningful way apart from chasing them off a generator. Much less valuable than just hooking someone. besides, I never said that sadako wasn't in a bad place, only that her ending matches too quickly (which is possible if you can just mori survivors after 7 hits, and they don't decide to use a tape at the 6th or 7th hit) would get most of the changes reverted putting her back to square one. Also, I never objected to the addons, you are putting words in my mouth. I absolutely agree that those addons are necessary for sadako right now. I would argue that the ring drawing SHOULD be basekit. However, as you said, it is a supplement that doesn't solve the main issue. My ideas make every two condemned actually do something, rather than be a poor man's hook state counter (honestly think about it, which is easier? hooking surivors 3 times or teleporting to exactly where they are up to a max of 7 times to kill ONE SURVIVOR).
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356120#Comment_3356120
That would be powerful, but then again anyone who says otherwise remember we have nurse who can do that already
Just make the manifestation and demanifestation take a few seconds longer and it's fine
unfortunately this would just lead to a wraith scenario where you have to manifest to get them hurt/down and demanifest to avoid obstacles/catch up. They could put you in a loop of manifesting and demanifesting, trying to catch up when they place an obstacle and then having to chase them again because you took too long to manifest allowing them to reach another safe spot. it would take time that could have been saved just using brutal strength and destroying the pallet. Nurse is strong because when she bypasses pallets and windows she can attack immediately, wraith and sadako have to wait to be able to attack again letting survivors react.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355626#Comment_3355626
Condemn is already impactful. it allows you instantly mori a survivor. that is like most powerful debuff in the entire game. it is building up condemn that is issue.
Obviously, there could be some problems with this. Should endurance hits apply a stack? This would be a pretty good counter to DH, but could be pretty easy to abuse with basekit BT for tunneling. Should other sources of Condemmed like Teleporting or Tapes be removed or toned down?
When Oni hits a survivor with endurance, he does not get 40% of his power gauge. The condemn stacks can work like Oni's power meter build-up. it applies condemn when you lose a health-state. TP & Ring drawing are passive forms of gaining condemn. its little bit like freddy dreamworld that ticks you in dream after 60 seconds. Technically passive help you get more condemn stacks(just like passive helps put people in dream world) but you still have to hit people as freddy to keep people in dream world just like Sadako has to hit people to actively condemn survivors. TV TP & Ring drawing are more active forms of build-up then just a 60 second timer but the nature of these two forms of condemn is suppose to be supplementary. right now they are primary forms of condemn which is why it is hard to condemn survivors. too much survivor control, not enough emphasize on killer player.
Condemn is only impactful at max stacks, which as you said is hard to get. Making it easier to get condemned might not solve the problem, since as long as they don't specifically get to max condemned they are basically playing against a crappier wraith with a more limited freddy teleport. The mori is only a problem if you let it get to max stacks and then let yourself get caught (twice if you're healthy). You would get people doing the tapes JUST BEFORE max stacks, but for the most part they would remain unaffected meaning they would ignore it for gen rushing while you have almost nothing to show for it (which is how it is now). That's the best case scenario, worst case it works too well and games last way less time because survivors can't keep up with the fast condemned stacks leading to deaths with no need for a single hook. That's not fun to go against and is a fast track to her getting nerfed into the ground.
My suggestion makes it to where they have to pay much more attention to condemned, while not risking games becoming short because of an easy instant mori. It makes survivors have to consider which is more worthwhile: gen progress, or removing the debuffs from condemned.
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I think instead of making condemned more common, it should be more impactful if they let it increase. I mentioned in another post some ideas I had to make condemned have more impact before the mori. I'll paste what I said here.
At 2 stacks survivors near a tv when you teleport are hindered by 20% for 5 seconds (to give you an easier time catching up)
At 4 stacks basic attacks injuring survivors gives them deep wounds(so they are vulnerable even with dead hard, and it forces them to take time to mend letting you do other things if you don't want to chase them)
At 6 stacks whenever you manifest at all near them you get to apply the last condemned stack (that way even being at 6 is a risk enough that they will be forced to deal with the tapes).
These effects, along with swapping the cooldowns between survivors and sadako turning off the t.v., would make her power more impactful, and provide some innate slowdown if you are teleporting well. The only other thing I could think of that would help is maybe making the addons that affect survivors near t.v.s to have the same range as condemned. Right now they are too small so even if they are working on a gen next to the t.v. they won't be affected.