WeaverReaver42
WeaverReaver42
About
- Username
- WeaverReaver42
- Joined
- Visits
- 491
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312451#Comment_3312451
You underestimate the tiny size of puddles. The survivor will not stand on them. He will run past and most likely will not return to the area.
The situation will become even worse if it means activating the trap.
The situation becomes more ambiguous if we remember that there are still pallets of sleep. How can you keep the balance if one of the options for strength literally makes the strength more effective?
If you place the puddles in an important area such as a loop, door, pallet etc., the size isn't a problem. Placing them where people will eventually have to go means the speed boost will add up and they will have no choice but to walk over them. This is especially true if you are chasing them, which is when freddy needs his power the most. Besides, I'm not saying that they have to STAY on the puddle. I'm thinking it would be similar to the hindered effect, where when they step on it there is a small time period where they have a debuff (in this case it would be a sleep countdown reduction).
As for activating the trap, I was thinking the trap isn't 'activated' unless they walk over is while asleep, like it is now. Instead it's more of an area effect localized on top of the puddle that applies when survivors cross it. Survivors woudn't notice it unless they are paying attention to their sleep timer, forcing them to be vigilant to avoid repeat crossings if they don't notice.
and the sleep pallets could work differently (they already do afterall), instead of speeding up the time it takes to fall asleep- the pallets will simply put a 'stack' on the survivor. For every stack, the time they stay awake after escaping sleep can be reduced (once again, the clock would offset this because of the temporary sleep immunity. making it balanced).
-
@Dark_Alex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312289#Comment_3312289
Agree. The Nightmare cannot use its power while the survivors are awake. This is problem. The importance of sleep is not balanced properly.
However, since the Nightmare is all about dreams, I think it would be wrong to reduce the value of a sleep. Instead, I suggested an option with increased importance of sleep.
Only in a dream the killer can fully interact with the survivors. This would be connected with the lore of the character.
Now, to balance. If Freddy can interact with the survivors less than usual, it's more like a nerf than a rework. Survivors should also feel the importance of the night. What could be more important than teamwork and generators?
A carefree existence outside the dream world must be compensated by the horrors of the dream world, and Freddy is the only source of horror, so he needs an advantage in the chase or in another important aspect. For example, in information. This can be left for addons.
(We believe that sleep pallets and sleep puddles do not exist.)
this is alot what old freddy was like. And from what I understand the only people who struggled against him literally didn't know how he worked at all. It simply wouldn't be good. Also, the changes I propose wouldn't diminish the importance of his power at all. his power would be the same except now he benefits from it more often. that makes it more impactful, if anything.
-
@YOURFRIEND said:
No time limit at all seems rather insane. Survivors need counterplay to perks and running out the timer is skillful play that should be rewarded. When survs time their vaults to the second to avoid it I can't be anything but impressed.
Mostly I like dissolution because it makes survivors do goofy stuff to avoid proccing it. It also makes the whole "dead hard at pallet" thing much simpler to deal with.
I'd give it maybe an extra 5s duration or .2-4s shorter activation time
it already has a load of counterplay, too much for it to be useful. I figured this perk could be changed to reduce it. That being said I agree it might be too strong, but that could be fixed by simply having a 'lose' condition such as getting stunned. this would allow for counterplay while allowing the perk to be useful in more situations
-
I'm going to be honest. I feel like freddy's main weakness is his power's reliance on people being asleep. It was his problem when he was 'overpowered' as well. If people aren't asleep you aren't nearly as effective. Honestly, if trying to use his pallets/moving over his puddles speed up the time to fall sleep temporarily, I feel that would be a significant buff. Instead of just relying on survivors to fall asleep eventually and not using clocks or failing skillchecks, you could whittle them down with your power. (I know you can hit them to make them fall asleep but that requires you to find them and chase them just to get your power on ONE PERSON and that doesn't even mention they can remove it in 3 ways. the clock's immunity would be unnaffected to keep it being useful, but survivors who don't use it will find themselves walking over random puddles and falling asleep. this would speed up his teleporting much more as a bonus, and make his puddles not useless on awake survivors (which justifies using them outside of chasing a sleeping survivor). I feel like this small change has large ripples to make freddy hugely more fun to play. His 'traps' may not be as strong as trappers (as weird as it is to call something in trapper's kit compared to another killer, his traps are far more useful at stopping survivors in their tracks) but they help you in ways outside of getting a down.
-
@Seraphor said:
How about:
Your movement speed is increased by 1% for each token, while further than 32m from a survivor.
Not even limited to a brief period after a hook, just permanent 4% speed boost after you hook all survivors once, but with the limitation that you can't really use it to close distance on a survivor or in a chase, only for map traversal.
I like that a lot! Really fits with what I was going for, but does it alot better.
-
Maybe there could be a similar perk, but with a speed buff after hooking a survivor. I love how after hooking a survivor with 2 or more stacks of devour hope you just ZOOM across the map.
Maybe something where the more survivors you have hooked that are still alive, the faster you are for about 5 seconds immediately after hooking someone. when that survivor dies the tokens from their hooks are removed.
This would incentivize a heavily aggressive playstyle while also doing the intended goal of rewarding spread out hooks.
Maybe there could even be a radius around the hooked survivors where this perk stops working, so you can't just abuse it near a hook to prevent survivors from unhooking.
-
@Milo said:
At that point, why not just show us each other perk builds alongside that?
Don't get me wrong, I would love that. However considering the matchmaking timer is less than a minute, it might take a while to read each perk and get an understanding of what they intend to do. This would streamline that process by basically just telling others what the overall end goal of the perks you equipped are for. I probably should have mentioned this, but i imagined you could attach a playstyle to each perk-build you have equipped, that way if you switch before the match it will show your new intended role without you having to change it directly (although directly changing it should also be an option as well if people decide to mix up perks right before the match). People wouldn't have time to read 12 different perks and interpret the build from them for each of the three other survivors, especially if people change around their build.
-
as a killer main, I tried solo q and swfs because I wanted to hang out with friends and also see what it's like for survivors. The difference between the two is astounding. My preferred build goes from being insane because I can take people off the ground in record time to a roll of the dice because I have no way to let people consistently know I'm going for an unhook and a quick heal.
My build should for all intents and purposes be good, but simply because I can't let other people know what I intend to do. it becomes a game where I have 3 chances to lose, and only with all 3 successes can I actually help my team. That doesn't even get into how camping negates my build simply because I have to either give up and go to gens or just sit around waiting for the person to die because the killer knows solo q players flock to a hooked survivor like flies (assuming they don't all just leave you on hook, which can also happen occasionally, but I don't see it often because I usually try and prevent that outcome.)
-
@Crowman said:
Half those effects require getting 3+ rekindled totems.
Can pentimento be strong? sure, but actually keeping and maintaining more than 2 rekindled totems at a time is difficult and you're likely already in a winning situation if you can do so.
my last comment was actually supposed to go to you, my bad. but yeah, I would argue you don't need 3 or more pentimento stacks to get significant value out of it. The first two already put survivors way behind. Heck, you can even add thanataphobia for additional healing and repair slowdown. because both slow down healing, thana gets even more value as survivors have to waste time healing or repair gens abyssmally slow. that time spent healing is noteworthy when it can be the difference between you finishing a chase before a gen gets done or the exit gates opening in the middle of chasing a survivor. gen regression is huge in the game for a reason, and pentimento just requires ONE TOTEM to do that. every additional totem functionally acts as protection against losing that effect along with the other bonuses. people look at pentimento, see how hard it is to get max value, and forget that even the minimum of value is still pretty good with the right build.
-
@AcelynnBen said:
the only reason barely any killers use it, its because first u need to rely on survivors to cleanse a dull totem or hex
2 u need to walk to it (waste of time)
3 if u want full effect u need to pressure the game as hard as it can with a full hex build to get the best out of it
yes it would be good but if it was automatic, hell it would be broken af
honestly? I get that. but the first two effects are strong enough on their own. slowing healing and gen repair are huge in this game. it's why thana was so good and why gen regression and repair is talked about so much. the fact pentimento gives you a huge amount of both is insane. Especially since you get it in a scenario that would normally be a detriment (losing a hex that might have been useful) You don't NEED max stacks to get value. Just one or two really hinders survivors.
-
@AcelynnBen said:
the only reason barely any killers use it, its because first u need to rely on survivors to cleanse a dull totem or hex
2 u need to walk to it (waste of time)
3 if u want full effect u need to pressure the game as hard as it can with a full hex build to get the best out of it
yes it would be good but if it was automatic, hell it would be broken af
hence the devour hope. If people don't cleanse devour hope you get a huge buff over the course of the game. Same with plaything, especially on deathslinger and huntress who can attack at range, as it puts them at a severe disadvantage when they don't realize your next to them. if people won't cleanse totems MAKE THEM REGRET IT. It's about putting yourself in a win win scenario.
-
@AcelynnBen said:
the only reason barely any killers use it, its because first u need to rely on survivors to cleanse a dull totem or hex
2 u need to walk to it (waste of time)
3 if u want full effect u need to pressure the game as hard as it can with a full hex build to get the best out of it
yes it would be good but if it was automatic, hell it would be broken af
the thing about not being automatic is you can essentially 'set levels' to it. You can choose to have it at max and put near everything to a stop, or you can do only one at a time for gen regression, redoing a pentimento whenver one is removed. This essentially allows for consistent slowdown all game. It takes a bit of time, but it's an investment to gain more time overall. short term cost for long term gain. Seriously, if you did the math on how much time it would take for survivors to do gens or even to get rid of the hex compared to the time it takes to go there and set it up, I think you'd be suprised at how much time is actually GAINED from setting up pentimento. In fact, I just had a game where they were rushing gens, went to almost a full stop when I started getting pentimento stacks.
-
@BrightWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217647#Comment_3217647
Seriously, Trapper needs a rework or at least be allowed to use different types of traps. Like trip/barb wire traps, oil slicks that can slow survivors, and flashbangs that temp blind/alert Trapper to a survivor's location or reveal their aura for a few seconds. Just something that makes the name Trapper have meaning again and so he can compete with the new meta perks.
All of that sounds super awesome and it makes me sad we probably won't get any of it.
-
Lightweight trap: Trapper can now throw his traps up to 24 meters, it instantly sets when landing and any survivor caught between in and where it would land is trapped as if they stepped on it. Escaping the trap requires only one attempt, but it takes 10 seconds to escape, and leaves the survivor hindered for 5 seconds (you would be able to see an aura of where the trap would 'set' on landing, making it easier to cut off escape)
-
As many have said quite a few killers could use a touch up. (I literally only bought Freddy for the perks, and I kind of regret it. Would not recommend buying the character otherwise- which is bad when that is the main reason he was put in the game). Some more than others considering how consistently they were mentioned in this forum (Death Slinger was mentioned a few times, and while he isn't the strongest I think he's still plenty viable. The fact he was mentioned about two or three times as opposed to every other killer rework request involving trapper and Sadako should tell you which of them is in a worse spot). I would especially like them to focus on the killers that require auric cells that are lagging behind. What's the point of paying real money, just to do worse because you bought one of the worst killers in the game?
Also I hate how negative this comment comes off as, but it needs to be said as many times as it takes to get heard and I just wanted to do my part to make sure any devs on the forum know even newer players (I started around June this year) can tell some killers are getting neglected.
-
@Ayodam said:
Maybe in SWF but then SWF are already doing sabo builds. I don’t think it’s going to change anything for solo queue at all. I tried running a sabo build in solo queue and it totally failed. Without the ability to communicate with other survivors and basically plan where you’ll go down, it’s virtually impossible to really make a sabo build work.
When swf do something, killers tend to respond to counter it- which is usually a counter that becomes oppressive against solo-q. For example, the mori changes and such would incentivize survivors to distract and sabo against killer more than they already do. Killers will come up with better counters against the swf strategies to prevent their new playstyles from totally dominating, which are often more than enough to totally dominate solo-q players that can't pull off similar strategies. In this case gen regression would give killer more time to catch and confirm hooks on survivors, which would help with confirming hooks on solo-q players that have much less ability to evade hooking or even doing generators as fast in the first place.
Basically: Killers and swf adapt to each other, Solo-q struggles to do that leaving them further behind both.
-
@RaSavage42 said:
It all depends on what the Killer wants to run
Gen Regression or something to counter whatever playstyles come out of the Survivor side
I'm worried that survivors will focus on preventing hooks at all. After all, if you can get up after being downed, you can do riskier plays as long your teammates can prevent you from being hooked. just pester killer until the survivor they didn't pick up manages to escape. rinse and repeat while someone does gens. The best way to counter this is gen regression. There is a good chance that if multiple people pester the killer, the killer will at best only be able to hook one survivor before the other gets up due to the changes and the new unbreakable. Meanwhile if you reduce gen repair speed or reduce the progress, than you can afford to take your time hooking each survivor. This will lead to solo-q getting left behind again as they can't keep up with the increased gen times nor can they effectively pick up others or distract killer.
-
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Doesn't this already happen with gen regression perks?
Yes, but I'm worried that the update will make it worse. sort of like throwing gasoline on an already big fire.
-
I always felt like there should be a priority system. They could categorize the different boons based on how hard they are to find (this would be determined by playtesting and calculating which totems get found most often). When a game starts the game randomly generates the totems based on potential spots (preferably with more potential spots than there are totems allowed in the game). the totems spawned in the hardest to find places would be made hex totems if the killer had any, the rest would be left alone so survivors could have their easy to find totems to use as boons. This would let survivors get their boons fairly easily, while also forcing them to go out of their way to look for hex totems if they wanted to get rid of them/know if they had to worry about them.
-
Is it just me, or does it feel like the front of the house functionally has an infinite in front of it. I can never seem to catch anyone in front of the house. Like, this is ignoring how survivors can hide from killer because of how dark the map can be. It feels like they can run you forever between the bushes, two fences, and the pallet in front of the house. Am I just bad (probably), or is anyone else having that issue. (If I am just bad, please give some advice on how to handle that map better).
-
I remember you from the perk post! Well, I'm keeping with my theme and using the killer the perk I suggested on the last post belonged to.
The Spinster:
An arachnid monster, whether they were ever human is unclear, but the malice and sadism they display are quite apparant. Tricking unwary nightgoers with the sounds of a helpless person calling for help, then slowly trapping them with an expanding network of webs.
Power: Weave
pressing the power button places webbing on the ground that applies hindered to any survivor that walks over it, while also revealing their aura to the killer for 4 seconds. This power has 4 charges before it must be renewed at a 'nest'. When using the secondary power button key (control by default) for 10 seconds on a window a 'nest' full of spiders and webbing is created. When vaulting through a window with a nest, survivors will scream afterwards and have deep wound applied.
-
I know I'm probably late to the party in this, but I remeber a perk from a killer Idea I had that honestly I just want to see in the game
Scourge hook: Voracious
When hooking a survivor on a scourge hook, gain a 6/8/10 second haste buff (the haste buff would be like 5% or so)
I really like the idea of a perk that just lets killer go fast after hooking someone. Incentivizing hooks as a 'set it and forget it' kind of thing to let survivors have a chance to unhook.
-
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104004#Comment_3104004
Already explained it. If there are two survivors there, you can't chase one without the other getting the unhook for free. That's a problem.
The devs tried to add the feature you want, this is what happened. This is how it was abused and had to be removed.
If you really want something to stop camping and not a free win every game, check out my post. I addressed the issues with the system that failed and fixed them.
I would say that's fine. That just means you get a survivor down a hook state, and then have another surivor come to you and get hooked themselves. If they throw themselves at you, a good killer will down them. Worst case scenario you wound one or two of them and have to chase. That's not a bad position, I would say that might even be good gameplay. Cycling survivors on hooks so they all have a chance to play as you whittle them down into a tight match where the difference of how good they were at unhooking and delaying you in chase making the difference between a win and a loss. Sure, it might have you at the same hook for a bit- but survivors couldn't afford to keep it up all match (the ones that try quickly get themselves hooked). Your basically trading survivors at that point unless you let 3 survivors get away, which at that point might be a skill issue when one of them you would probably be chasing and the other would be easy to find until the unhooking is finished.
-
People talk about it being exploitable, but if it was a slow down instead it would be less so. Just make sure to give killers something in return to REWARD playing differently as well. I've advocated for slowing down the hook progression but giving killer a speed boost. It would allow for killer to catch nearby survivors making risky plays, but would also make them want to leave hook because now they are faster and can reach somewhere else quicker. That's not even getting into how people could finish a gen and have time to spare before the person gets into the second hook state if the killer decides to be stubborn. Killers are strong right now, they can afford a nerf to a broken playstyle- especially since they are stronger in chase now. Although I also like the idea of undoing the slowdown effect if a survivor is nearby as it would be good to force survivors to be smart about unhooking rather than just going for it in front of killer like some do.
-
Because it's a 1 vs 4. Killer is one person trying to get 4 people who are all on the same side. If those 4 are even halfway decent the 1 is at a disadvantage without huge areas in their favor. Think of it like a mario party game: 3 people vs 1 person minigames happen occasionally. The lone person gets an easier time because they are relying on themselves alone as opposed to being helped by someone else. You also have to keep in mind that streamers aren't necessarily on the same level as most players. Take lilith Omen on blight, I couldn't do a flick or a moonrush or whatever he calls them- to save my life, but he does them almost casually because he has practised it way more than most people who just want to play the game have. Now look at JRM, even after the update he probably isn't struggling to play survivor- but many are. If I were to see JRM doing well as a survivor and ask why you can't be as good at him, you would probably say that isn't fair- and you would be right. You shouldn't have to be the best to get a win, just better than the other side.
-
Actually, there's another I thought of not long after posting this.
Squeaky Springs (rare addon): Using older springs more prone to squeaking, the trap now makes a loud noise that scares any prey that might mess with the components.
When this addon is used, a survivor screams after beginning to disarming your traps. This happens only once, and to get the effect back the trap that was being disarmed must be picked up and put back down or rearmed.
-
@Starrseed said:
@kingcarl2012 is totally right with the camping stuff and tunneling cant be fixed that easy either. when you start giving the killer a penallity of any kind for hitting or hooking the same survivor again you basicly made a meat shield where the killer has to decide is does he let the unhooked and the unhooker go because the unhooked is bodyblocking or does he go for the down on the unhooked and gets a penallity for that
What I don't get is why we can't penalize a killer for staying near a hook and incentivize them leaving rather than penalizing the action of hooking itself. Whenever the killer is within a certain distance of a hooked survivor the progression to the next stage is reduced to half for all survivors on hook. This would essentially mean camping out a survivor at the hook would leave survivors with more gens done than you could easily deal with, even with one or two people out. People complain about it being too much of a nerf to killer- but if survivors unhook it would still make them immediately go into the next hook state when rehooked, nullifying the time factor, meaning they would have to respect the killer at hook while killer also can't afford to stay near it too long. Worst case scenario the killer gets a speedbuff after hooking a survivor to leave the area faster or catch nearby survivors going for an unsafe rescue much easier.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091149#Comment_3091149
Yes exactly. The timer would start if your within a certain radius and not in a chase. It would increase in penalty based on time and proximity, but will stop once a chase starts. That way killers aren't punished for stupid unhook plays. Hook grabs allow the killer to effectively block any save attempt outside of SWF coordination, so the radius needs to only allow for a survivor to have to strategize a save.
As for the tunneling penalty. If the game registers a chase with 2 or more survivors, but the killer pursues and downs the unhooked person, they get no points for the down or the subsequent second hook. This way if the killer just honestly accidentally encountered the same person, or the unhooked made a dumb play, the killer still gets their points.
I would say the no point penalty for hooking a previously hooked person might be a bit much. If only because I've been in situations where I've ONLY had the option to get the person who was unhooked even when I wanted to go for the person who did the rescue. Sometimes a situation like tunneling comes up and you can't do much to stop it because it's your only option. Now that being said If the timer for the unhooked person was around 30-40 seconds then I would be more inclined to say yes.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
I think the first thing the devs need to do is punish the killers for tunneling and facecamping with their scores. A killer shouldn't get to stand right Infront of hook on their first down of the match and get more points than the survivor stuck on the hook.
'Entity Boredom' should activate when the killer is lingering Infront of the hook. The score penalty rises based on proximity and length of time.
Should also trigger if the killer ignores nearby survivors to continue to pursue a freshly unhooked survivor.
This would also not really punish killers who are using the tactics more legitimately. You'd have a whole 'good' match worth of score.
This doesn't solve the little power-fantasy basement dwellers. But killers should not being getting pips for standing around and playing badly.
I like the idea, but how exactly would it be implemented? I imagine anytime you aren't in 'chase' or hitting someone while near a hook would be a good place to start, and then if you don't move a certain distance (namely around the size of basement) in a certain amount of time would also be a potential trigger for point reduction.
-
Hate to be "That guy" but killers had to put up with survivors for years being dominant and rude, I've seen it myself and there's still plenty of videos showing examples of what I mean on youtube, Killer's were insulted and accused of being toxic for simply trying to win when odds were against them. What did Killer's do? THey adapted and tried to play the game while making their complaints. However, survivors not getting their way has had a huge backlash that makes me hesitant to side with them because of how angry and upset they seem over 1 update that can easily be undone if it really is that bad. They've undone things before from what I can tell and if it were that bad they probably would. But survivors are acting like everyone is out to get them while acting like they've been the victim the entire time and have their hand totally clean.
-
@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090031#Comment_3090031
or, the range add ons could be just nerfed and reach less further?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090020#Comment_3090020
ok, show me a video of someone doing 12 hooks 9 games in a row
((TLDR: I feel like taking something and leaving nurse with less is a bit much, especially when the add-on could be made to change up her playstyle to make going against her less of the same thing over and over)
I don't like the idea of taking something and giving nothing in return, not to mention not having range defeats the purpose of the perk from what I experienced. How I see the perk is giving you a long ranged option. The problem with that is how strong having long range is when you can attack not long afterward, giving map control and pressure at very little effort. If you both couldn't attack after an 'overcharged blink' and the fatigue was longer from the overcharge then it would give survivors much more agency in the exchange and lessen the pressure on survivor health while keeping the presence at the area (and that's not even mentioning that the extra fatigue might give survivor time to escape if there were a longer blink cooldown as an additional downside). There aren't enough killers where you can know where someone is across the map and do anything about it. Blight and MAYBE huntress being the exceptions. I don't mind having little to no kill potential at long range, that makes sense, but taking away her potential to scare survivors off of gens and not giving anything back feels a bit unfair. Granted this is about bringing nurse down to better levels, so I will grant you that it might not be enough, but I think the idea of making it to alter how her power can be used rather than just a simple and small buff has merit. Look at some of her spasmodic breath, you give up teleport potential after a hit for boosted speed making it to where you go in for a sudden attack and then chase them down rather than keep blinking.
-
@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090652#Comment_3090652
Well, you here already bring up one point that people overlook what are survivors doing. A very common occurance is that they don't worry about the killer spotting them near the hook, frankly sometimes it is impossible to even turn your back before the first one runs in... It is the job of the killer to not give away all the pressure they created in the last min of chasing the person. If they leave and haven't found anyone yet and the save happens nearby, it is logical to head back to guaranteed survivors location. Location is also a key factor, if the hook is done in a tactical spot in the middle of a 3 gen for instance? Why would the killer leave that area?
For a vast majority of cases on when it is smart to camp, is because it simply places more pressure on survivors. Most of these factors are even based on the survivors own choices on a macro level. Yet somehow that is all the killers fault?
Expanding the time on hook in an area means if the survivor loops you in said area they get the benefit of an additional hook stage for the other 2 without actually using up a hookstage. Also, makes saving the player more dangerous for anyone else and promotes letting them dangle there... Doesn't sound beneficial for either party.
You care for the fun of the survivors, but ignore the fun of the killer. How pressure is generated, how it is removed by survivors and the back and forth there.
Want to have less camping, make the good choices as survivors to put pressure on the killer by doing gens and not going for instant saves. Make sure to break up 3 gens and the likes. Often overlooked part of the effectiveness of camping is the role the survivors play and is why solo queue needs the indicators they announced sooner than later so people can make better informed choices.
Now with the additional time on gens simply make the hook times a tad longer in general no requirements like 65 or 75 seconds, as that balance has been offset in favor of camping while it wasn't needed so that status quo should be rectified in my view.
Want to make it less appealing to camp, the carrot approach would be more effective. Make it more beneficial to leave, provide a buff if out of range, etc. Look at devour hope as a prime example of a perk that really promotes not to camp, as it provides something beneficial for going away. BBQ promotes leaving by giving you information on where a new target can be found, etc. Give people a reason to leave, make it worthwhile to do so. People play to win and will as a result play based on risk and reward.
This will not deter the basement dwellers, but nothing really will.
Ok yeah, I agree a beneficial approach would be better, however I feel carrot AND stick work best. I find survivors going for the unhook while killer is around tend to get killed, which is why I proposed a speed buff. If you can hit a survivor before you hook, than getting them again afterwards will be a piece of cake with a speed buff. Granted I should have specified that. When I imagine the speed buff I'm talking on the level of the old bloodlust (1.2 m/s for around 4-6 seconds). It would both help killer close the distance on obvious targets near hook while also letting them have the option to move on from hook faster. I really like Devour Hope for the speed boost (and the fact it incentivizes not camping, but there should be base kit incentives not to do that, not soley dependant on a build as that makes you give up other options just to let try and let others have fun at potentially your expense) and feel something similar but for the purposes of moving on from hook and far more immediate (because I think the 10 second wait time for devour hope is kinda dumb) would be great. Devour hope works as a bandage solutoon, however it requires you to go out of your way to let people get unhooked before you get the benefits that a base kit immediate speed boost after hook would provide. The reason why I suggested nerfing the entity timer while near hook was more because outside of niche situations hooking a person and camping will almost always be better because the time to get them to the next hook state will be faster than doing 1 gen. Sure, if survivors are doing a gen each and getting to those gens as fast as possible this is a downside- but very often survivors might not know where the gen is or might try to work together to finish a single gen faster (not even considering failed skill checks or debuffs from gen regression and such).
TLDR: you have a point and there should be a significant reason to WANT to not camp, and If I had described the speed boost I thought of in depth it might have sounded somewhat more enticing. But overall I feel there should be a disencintive to camp as outside of a near perfect scenario for survivors camping will vastly improve the chance to win with little effort. This normally would be managable but with how easy it is to win as a killer now that's making it miserable for survivors.
I'd like to apologize if I came off as rude I'm just really frustrated because I want survivors to enjoy the game as much as I do so queue times stop being so awful and I can enjoy the game without feeling like I'm ruining someone else's day.
-
@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090122#Comment_3090122
I for one am not the problem, I play to win and for fun. Does this mean at some point in some matches I will camp most definitely, because it simply is at those times the correct play. If you would actually read through my history there is more nuance than what you protray.
I don't have an issue with wanting to address camping or tunneling for that matter which you don't actually touch upon. Yet nothing of your suggestion is new, innovation or address any of the concerns raised or understands the nuance of when it is a good time to camp and when it isn't. From someone that actually does utilize the tactic... Your suggestion would do nothing to change the situations in which I camp, as it is a tactical choice that isn't based on how long it lasts but the location and premise around it. It isn't the face camp at 5 gens with a basement bubba tactic that I utilize there is actually strategy in how I play and based on the survivors I face.
Attacking the players rather than trying to understand the game design behind it and what it offers, just shows that not only are you suggesting an unoriginal idea but also your lack of understanding of the game itself. Blame the players all you want, but it is just the game.
Ok then, name some suggestions that would actually deter you from camping. I'm perfectly accepting criticism as long as someone is willing to give an alternative and be respectful about it. My thought process is that picking an area a little less than devour hope would somewhat force killers to actually leave the area. However if that is a problem there could be added reasons why survivors shouldn't just go in immediately without worry to the killer seeing them. I haven't seen the other suggestions, I admit but I'd rather talk about the probolems that alot of people feel need solving. I want survivors to have fun like I do when I play the game, and trying to find solutions to keep people from easily camping out someone is a step towards that. I know you can't remove camping completely but from what I've heard (and experienced, to a much lesser extent) the camping problem has gotten worse with the update and needs something done to curb the increase.
TLDR: My solutions may not be perfect, but I'm trying. If you think it's a bad idea, I would be more than happy to hear what you think would help curb the amount of camping in the game.
-
@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090406#Comment_3090406
Why do I need to time it?
I sit on gen, killer comes towards me, I walk away a little, then as he closes in I sprint burst away to the first pallet preventing the first hit.
Same for DH, I'm injured, killer closes in or I won't make the next loop, dead hard, preventing the second hit.
Dead hard being used in a way people minded was mid chase. Sprint burst activates as soon as you sprint so when people use it mid chase it's usually by not walking until needed or keeping exhaustion at around 99 percent and letting it finish for the perk to activate when they need more speed in a sprint.
-
@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090424#Comment_3090424
Old Dead Hard didn't give endurance, no speed boost or protection, if you were "hit" during dead hard due to either lag or incredibly poor timing you would go down, but never would you get a boost.
Huh weird I could have sworn it did. Granted as you mentioned lag could play a factor and it took me a while to fix the lag when I played dbd (not even sure what caused it I just remember trying a bunch of stuff until it stopped lagging). But that still means that dead hard did what sprint burst did while also not requiring as much. You could still sprint and see if it was actually necessary, with sprint burst you have to manage your exhaustion so you don't use it accidentally. Hard? yes, but considering you basically get a potential escape from a down it's worth it. Dead hard didn't make you ask those questions, only "Am I sure that if I use this I can prolonge chase until I get the ability back?" Which doing for 40 seconds when you know you have a pallet or window coming up isn't a hard sell.
-
Dead hard did what sprintburst does while also giving endurance meaning if you mess up there's still a chance you get a speed boost from getting hit without getting downed. It was a bit of a win win scenario when injured. The only bad thing about using it was messing up. I don't necessarily think perks should have downsides but when they are as strong as say hex perks or movement perks for survivors there should be some cost. As others mentioned sprint burst has a bit of a difficulty to use properly without wasting it, making it preferable in killers eyes. I will be the first to admit though that the time should be buffed to a second like in the ptb.
-
@Kalinikta said:
Uninspired generic talked to death suggestion, maybe do some research on what has been said before.
No offense, but you literally on your last posst advocated camping. I'm pretty sure you aren't the type of person I'm suggesting this to. You are the problem I am bringing a solution to get rid of.
-
@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Survivors would just abuse it by looping by the hook
Wouldn't the speed boost help with that? YOu could quickly get to a survivor if the boost was enough, and once again you could simply let them unhook. The hook isn't very big it's not exactly a simple thing to 'loop the hook' so you would be relying on nearby objects.
-
Yeah, I think there should be a middle ground where it IS dark, but you can still actually see things. I literally had a game where someone hid in that very spot the whole game and I couldn't find them because it was pitch black. All they have to do is move a little bit and the crows won't show up, meaning I had no chance to see them. I found them by pure chance when I accidentally clicked my m1 button out of frustration because there was no sign of anyone at all.
-
I am by no means a nurse main, but I would agree that the long range teleport you can put on her provides too much pressure. If they had it to where the addon instead let you 'overcharge' the blink for extra distance, after which you wouldn't be able to attack because of an overcharge fatigue debuff, that would make it balanced. It would give players time to react to nurse suddenly appearing rather than getting downed out of nowhere like I had happen when I played nurse, while also letting her have the insane map mobility I like about the addon.
-
Nerfing killer would just leave them vulnerable to SWF, which I believe is what lead to the low kill rates that behavior were talking about. Buffing solo queue would let behavior (and us) have our cake and eat it too. Buffing solo queue would also make more games interesting since it wouldn't just be dependant on killer, but also the teams skill, which would lead to less one sided games. Personally I believe they should do something about people killing themselves on hook and DCing as it's obvious what they are doing now isn't stopping people from trying to ruin the game for others or ragequitting which has the same effect (also camping and tunneling should be addressed but I feel they should both be addressed together rather than individually). Overall, while killers might be a bit overbuffed right now- we can't tell how much is because killer is too strong and how much of it is from the incosnistency you have on solo q. (I literally had a game where all 3 teammates tried killing themselves on hook, I have little doubt that others are experiencing at least a small amount of that- which would contribute to the awful experiences people are having).
-
I don't have a set build for killers, I just do what I feel fits best with my playstyle on that killer. That being said, I'll never stop running devour hope on trapper. It's my go to perk and always will be my personal favorite. Hex: Thrill of the hunt goes great with it because it helps slow down survivors trying to get rid of devour hope and other hexes. As for other perks I have been enjoying scourge hook monstroush shrine as an additional cherry to devour hope to incentivize them getting the survivor off hook quickly. Not to mention the agitation and iron grasp combo that's stupid strong.
-
@Sumnox said:
Another killer bringing up Dead hard. You really must be having daily nightmares about that perk, you just can't let it go lol
No offense, but the entire post is explaining why we are doing this. did you not read it?
-
@loothound said:
They want DH and other crutch perks reverted the way it was. Not gonna happen.
Literally no one is saying that they should revert Dead Hard. Who are saying these things, the survivor demons in your head?
They exist, trust me
-
@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084780#Comment_3084780
Yeah I get you, I in no way think it's some kinda sleazy intentional attempt to derail or anything either. I will readily admit there's things that kinda sour my perception of entire topics when I see it as well, and I feel it happens when you see people defend something you believe was basically universally disliked or should have been. Not an accusation as all, as I feel a similar way when I see people genuinely defend stuff like old moris as in my mind their change was an objective improvement of the game just like the DH change, and the same can be said about the DS change that added deactivation conditions.
I'd be lying if I tried to claim that doesn't make me imagine them as some stereotypical hyper-biased person, even if there's a genuinely good and interesting take on something else in the same post. Not sure if that's some kinda cognitive bias with a name or what, but I'm guilty of it as well even though the self-awareness makes it so I don't act on it, but obviously that won't be the case for everyone.
Yeah, the best we can do is disregard the bad opinions and try to see what points they DO have. Try and see others side of things! you got a good mindset friendo! :)
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084791#Comment_3084791
Oh, old DH was certainly unfair. I don't think a 2 second endurance would be fair either, since it'd fall into the same trap of old DH, where it offers too much distance. I just, in general, don't think there's much that can be done with the perk to prevent it from being a problem. Although a 1 second endurance, as opposed to .5 seconds, might actually be okay. Or else a happy middle at .75.
Yeah, I really hope a healthy middle ground is found with dead hard. I don't want a perk becoming useless, survivors have enough of those.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084365#Comment_3084365
Every perk should be at least usable. If you are looking at someone using Dead Hard and you think to yourself "Why would you pick that perk up?", you apparently think that it is overnerfed.
I do think it was overnerfed, but that doesn't change the fact that before it was unfair also. I feel like a 1-2 second endurance effect would be fine, and I think it's silly they undid that. However if I had to choose between 10 back to back survivor games in the new meta or going back to dealing with old dead hard- you'd catch me tryharding as survivor before you could say "game balance". If I were a survivor main, I'd feel about dead hard the way I feel about camping as a killer. It's unfair for the other players to have all their effort negated by one thing, and that doesn't sit well with me.
-
@oxygen said:
I dunno, I feel like I've seen way more posts that have a sorta "Who cares the patch was straight up radical by DBD standards and changed a lot, all complaints from a survivor POV no matter if they're about solo, certain killer + perk combos or anything else are just people mad about DH being changed" energy than people actually claiming DH shouldn't be changed, or even that it should have kept the 1 second duration from the PTB.
That IS a problem, but if you look about 3 comments above you- there is a prime example of why some killers try and make the argument. There might not be ALOT of people who feel the dead hard nerf was unfair, but they exist. My point wasn't that genuine complaints aren't there, but that it's hard for killers to take the complaints at face value when there are people unironically saying that dead hard was fine and the nerf was totally unwarranted. I know that you and that person aren't the same, but not everyone is going to make that distinction. I will be the first to admit that survivors do need a bit of love asap, but I've seen posts that sound like survivors think NO ONE is sad about the dead hard nerf and that killers are pulling the dead hard complaints out of nowhere.
TLDR: yeah the posts of genuine complaints are FAR more common and should be considered, I just think killers are somewhat annoyed because there are survivors still mad about the deadhard nerf and it's far easier to notice the obviously bad takes from the more nuanced ones, which could impact some of their responses (not all, some killers ARE toxic and trying to deflect- I just don't think it's all of them).
-
@PBsamichShoe said:
I'll never deflect the fact that I used dead hard every single match. It was a great perk. What made it great was that you could trigger it when you wanted to and it gave you a tiny bit of distance, because as much as crybaby killer mains want to convince you otherwise it's not easy to string together loops between tiles on the maps because the devs haven't historically been great at designing map tiles and because they spawn randomly aside from a few fixed structures in the map. Killers act like the map is designed so that a survivor can easily string together different tiles anywhere at all times but thats just not the reality. These maps are made by the same devs who didn't realize they had inadvertently created infinite loops on several of them and then had to go and patch those out. They're human and don't make perfect stuff but you have killers who seem to think they devised that on purpose.
I've seen streamers who somehow magically get map tiles that all spawn within distance of each other where you don't need to use an exhaustion perk to string them together but for people with less than 200 people in chat on their streams the tiles seem to spawn like they do for everyone else. Randomly. And sometimes you only get one pair that spawn close enough to each other to string them together without any kind of perk to help. Then your rando drops the strong pallet in one of them and you can't string them together anymore.
You could literally give me an exhaustion perk that only nudges me forward 2-3 feet but if I could use it when I want it to instead of being based off some obscure niche situation I could extend a chase for like 4 gens because most killers don't bother learning how to run map tiles.
I've ran killers for 2-3 gens before mostly just by running around the same pallet loop because they won't break the pallet when it's a strong loop. They literally just keep trying to chase me in circles and double back on it. You can't do that now because they bloodlust faster. So rather than expectin gthe killer to learn that they need to break the pallet on certain loops now they can just hold w until they catch up to you and get a free hit.
They could have gotten rid of the iframes and just made it a distance only perk and it would have been perfect. Or they could have nerfed it as they did and made one of the other exhaustion perks worth running but they didn't.
I'm really good at killer. I mained every single killer at some point with the exception of the two latest ones. I got bored with it but I learned how to run the map tiles, how to mind game, and how to moonwalk. I even taught a few killers how to moonwalk and mindgame loops while using their chainsaw as bubba. A lot of people didn't think you could even do that.
People want to try and shame people for using dead hard and I say thats BS. DH isnt the problem, your chase skills are weak.
Funny thing: There actually have been additions in the update to maps that make some easier to loop.
On the main subject though. The way you describe chases is indicative of WHY it needed to go. You describe it as if it was the easiest thing in the world. Facing killer should be a challenge, and you yourself have described deadhard in a way that makes it sound like a get out of jail free card. If you put yourself in a position where you are going to get downed, that's a skill issue. If you can tell that an area is disadvantagous, don't go there. I've been able to POST UPDATE loop killer for multiple gens. The free distance was the reason why dead hard was hated. You press a button, and you get extra distance that other perks have a requirement to earn, and that killer has to mindgame to get unless you are running in the open. Survivors need to avoid those open areas when possible, to minimise their chances of getting caught out. Rather than needing to know whether or not you can make it and planning accordingly, or consider if going to a certain area is a good idea, deadhard let you run free while killer had to deal with it.
Simply put: dead hard was good because it gave you distance for free, meanwhile killers often have to mindgame just to catch up in most situations that surviors put them in. Making it imbalanced in terms of skill to reward. Why should killers put in effort when survivors don't seem inclined to do the same?
(also NICHE situation? I would think dropping pallets and vaulting windows would be common, since outside of deadhard they are the main ways to get distance in general in chase)
-
Alot of people have been implying that it's silly to imagine that this is deliberate. I am more inclined to believe it when my second game as survivor had all 3 of my allies kill themselves on hook (well two- but that was only because I made DANG sure the other guy was staying in the match with me. If he wants to screw over the match, he can stay till the end.)