VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698331#Comment_3698331
P1- Ok I misread your point for that section.
P2 (Pressure of Slugging)- 45s is a long time to be on the ground doing nothing to progress the game. If it would take an ally 16s to heal them up, that would save 13 gen seconds in total. It still is more efficient to altruistically pickup in such a scenario. (That's also why I think the 30s to 95%, 30s more to self-pickup is better, as it further incentivizes altruism in a predictable amount of time.)
My reasoning isn't that it is simply something I don't like. I also don't think slugging (in excess of 45s) is happening to secure a victory in any more than 2% of matches tops. To solve a griefing issue and not significantly affect winrates would probably be the right type of change we should make. I'll repeat the offer I gave to the other person, and if you find a streamer who needed to 'slug in excess of 45s to secure a win' twice in their last 10 games, I'll concede this point that slugging is actively necessary with no changes needed in its current state. (Although the same qualifiers apply, I'll try to short version them here: Slugging for the 4k isn't securing a win, they already won with 3 kills. You could cheese this argument and use a Knockout Bleedout main I'd call you out on it, but still concede the point.)
P3 (Nothing a basekit UB would get people up with/'heavy slugging') - The pressure was always loosely applied outside of 4 slug circimstances, which are pretty much only done by Killers that were going to win the match regardless. That's why I've been referring to slugs as 'unsecured pressure' and hooks as 'secured pressure'. The Killer is gambling that the person doesn't have UB/Exponential/Soul Guard (if the Killer brought hexes)/Plot Twist flop timer (technically you know they did it, but its whether or not you can come back in time)/Adrenaline/Syringed by a teammate. None of those can work to get the person off of hook, but can work to get them off of the ground. I view it not too dissimilar to getting someone from healthy to injured. You can capitalize on the injured person, but it can still be undone if left unattended. There can be value in slugging/injuring someone, but it comes with its own set of risks. Getting a hook has nearly none of those risks and greater rewards.Also the problem with CoH was how it could force a Killer to spend 20s (not providing active pressure on the map) to get rid of something that only took the Survivor 14s to setup, and only 16-21s to heal (depending on which one it was, all of which more efficient than altruistic healing). I think if CoH was Self-Care speeds (~46s self-heal) with only an altruistic boost, it wouldn't have been a problem to begin with. Layered problems all down the line in its old form.
If it would take an ally 16s to heal them up, that would save 13 gen seconds in total.
You are completely ignoring time survivor needs to actually run there. SoloQ often has multiple survivors run there instead.
There is a quite good chance survivors will stop working on gens in advance, while I can return to hit them, or simply pick that survivor up, which wasted quite a lot of time from that survivor.
All of that is simply not valid, when everyone for 100% know, they are not needed there. Doesn't matter, if you run there or not, that survivor doesn't need help. Just that makes it so huge buff. I believe this would increase "gen rushing" (just effectiveness on gens) overall.
I'll repeat the offer I gave to the other person, and if you find a streamer who needed to 'slug in excess of 45s to secure a win' twice in their last 10 games, I'll concede this point that slugging is actively necessary
I am not sure, if it was 2 in 10 games, but when Otz was doing streaks he had several games, where slugging definetly won those games, mainly during end game with gates powered, you don't have time to hook in that situation and slugging is only way for comeback.
And how often people get bleed out? Like really. Is it even 1 in 10? 1 in 100?
I would manage to make more killers bleed me out, if we play actively trying to annoy the killer whole game. That's simple payback from the killer, understandable in my opinion.
Creating impossible hook situations etc, I would manage to get this 10 out of 10 games, but that's actively trying to get bleed out, so not sure how that counts.
But it's really rare for me at least to get bleed out, because I simply don't do things (while playing survivor) that annoy me as killer main. Simple as that.
As you said, it wastes time for the killer too, so unless they have reason, they won't do it.
Most of bleed outs were by Pigs anyway and that's more rare now after her changes.
Trying to say basekit unbreakable won't affect normal gameplay is same joke as 3-gen feature doesn't affect normal gameplay. That's just not thinking of consequences.
Such a minority doesn't need feature that would affect one of main strategies. If you think it's waste of time, then let survivors give up after 1 minute of constant slugging and replace them with bot. Fixed for survivor and you also punish the killer by dealing with bot…
It won't affect game balance, killer won't be able to waste much of your time and survivors will be more motivated to help their teammates.
You would need to remove impossible heal with holding shift tho, but I don't think that's an issue.
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Can't we just keep all techs instead?
I just consider it more fun/interesting, when there are extra things to learn in this game….
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Wraith:
- keep vaulting on every dropped pallet until Wraith uncloack, can work for windows too
- heal a lot, don't stay injured
Legion:
- never mend when Legion is still in frenzy
- if you are not death on hook, play injured (if you are confident enough)
Plague:
- if you are not death on hook, play injured
- as soon first person cleanse, everyone should start cleansing
Skull merchant:
- if you are healthy → hold W
- if you are injured → predrop pallets (same as Clown)
- crouch at loops, if possible to deny haste / claw trap
- always try to force her to injure you, never let drone do it (if possible)
- she is stealth killer, so look around you when working on gen
Oni:
- heal whenever you can, don't stay injured unless Oni is in power
- You don't drop blood, when Oni is raging
Nemesis, Oni:
- play as safe as possible early game, don't feed their power. Just predrop every pallet in the universe
Huntress, Deathslinger:
- just never drop those rock pallets (small, tall loops), always fake
Pig:
- Boop the snoot
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Yay, even more lobby dodging. What could go wrong.
It would definetly not be used for reporting just because players lost the game.
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this game would be so so much healthier
Weird way to spell easier…
giving all killers haste for no reason
Well, people didn't like exposed for everyone, so Haste replaced it.
i think her power should be reworked completely
I am not against any good idea, as long it is not Knight from Wish most people suggest. I hate that idea.
I play her mostly for Dead by Fashion, because her skins are really good. So as long power is decent and she is M1, I'll play her.
i don’t want to play a game where i can’t play the game
It's funny, I usually choose slugging over tunneling, so survivor get a chance to play a game. If I find survivor after they got unhooked, I slug them. I am not sure survivors are going to enjoy version, where it is not possible.
tunnelling
unless you nerf both slugging and tunneling of course. But for that to happen there would also need to major buff for killers / nerf for survivors. Balance with nerfs to those two is going out of the window.
weskers passive hinder
I wouldn't mind to lower duration a little for infection, but make it not progress in chase. Kinda like Pig… that would be fair in my opinion.
hit validation-especially over pallet fast vaults
There is a hit validation. Just because you don't like the result of the hit, doesn't mean it's not there.
I remember first version of hit validation, that was terrible time to play killer. That's why I didn't…
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Yeah, that build is fun to use. I use it quite a lot.
It was better with Skully, but RIP.
It's definetly not impossible to win against. SWF can manage.
It would definetly help, if hex perks would be so bad for most killers, so they would be used and survivors got used to actually searching for totems from start of the game. I remember when totem hunting perks were actually used during Ruin / NOED meta.
That's gone, because of nerfs and terrible totem spawns. So many survivors act like Pikachu, when they have to deal with Hex build.
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They had so easy job with Trickster and Twins. Pig too in my opinion. Somehow they managed to screw it.
I think Sadako and Skull merchant are more difficult topics, but solvable.
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I don't think either side needs major basekit buffs.
Killers need only killer specific changes, but quite a lot of them.
Survivors don't need major buff in my opinion. Only thing that needs to be changes are QoL features, or small buffs focused on soloQ experience.
Just show other players perk at least, that's must have and I have seen some other good ideas to help soloQ, I think that should be main focus for survivor changes. no immortality after unhooking, no basekit unbreakableBoth sides need better generic perks to help new players.
Decrease grind, because it's just insane how many hours you need to "unlock" whole game. As if lot of money is not enough.
Tons of perk changes needed.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697659#Comment_3697659
Petty -fair
Playing DBD so not alright -fair
Bleedouts vs hiding - So we loosely agree bleedouts should be bannable. Survivors can be banned for hiding and not doing gens if you provide evidence (specifically 10 minutes of gens not being touched). I was merely recommending the equivalent evidence for Killer bans. (as a refresher, the evidence I suggested was sitting under hook for long enough with a Killer refusing to hook the Surv) Alternatively we can take the opposite route and remove bans for hiding to maintain parity. I do agree with a surrender option for both sides regardless though.
Push tunneling more - My bad, I had Otz's video in my mind where he lied about spread pressure being nerfed, when CoH and Self-Care are butchered, so I misattributed what you were saying to be hit and run stocks are down. Yes, by virtue of say 5 options splitting a pool of cash, and reducing it to 4 (or more accurately 4.5) options, it would raise the pool for the remaining categories.
Win without tunneling - My bad again, mixed up threads and thought you were someone that was saying that you can't win without tunneling as was being said in all too many other threads.
Oni Slugging - This is where I would disagree. Pressure is obtained, yes, but not secured until the person is hooked. A hook secures the level of pressure, a slug has too many variables to consider it as free. I kill someone hooked in 2 minutes (normal case) longest with the pressure granted. I kill someone slugged in 4 minutes (normal case) shortest with that pressure granted. Plus the value of getting people bleeding orbs sooner, and having a partially filled power gauge helps keep the power active nearly all of the relevant moments of the match.
Myers Slugging - I specifically said 'slugging heavy'. There can be slugging involved, but nothing that a theoretical basekit UB would get someone up with. Also using Oblivious/Undetectable perks means the normal T3 TR no longer has its drawback. Also Myers has a greater problem if people start getting picked up, as now you have injured Survs that have no desire to heal since you are currently T3. Having T3 downtime increases the time Survivors waste on healing, and is key to my many of my victories as Myers. Essentially if I can snowball on two healthy Survivors as Myers, I know I have time to down the 2nd before someone could pickup the 1st. Then by going back to the 1st, I can hook them in the direction of the 2nd before they could get picked up also (or I could pickup and hook the 2nd in the direction of the 1st if I downed them quick enough).
Twins - I didn't say anything on them, because I have no clue what BHVR is doing with them. Their recent designs and reworks other than Billy have been questionable at best, from free hits with Chucky to whatever they are doing to Sadako to whatever happened to Trickster. I just don't want to break my brain peering into that abyss.
So we loosely agree bleedouts should be bannable
Neither should be bannable. That's simply overreaction.
It's fine to introduce prevention systems, if BHVR consider it an issue, but simply banning people is really lazy and really bad idea.
Imagine not being able to ban cheaters properly and you ban for bleeding out / hiding instead. That would be pathetic.
Pressure is obtained, yes, but not secured until the person is hooked.
Not really, point of slugging is not bleed out of course, it can lead it tho. Main point of slugging is to gain time to hook survivors overall. You don't always go back for that survivor and there can be multiple of reasons for it.
Slugged survivor can't work on gen and another survivor has to run towards that survivor to pick them up. That simply has to happen unless they have perk to pick themselves. Survivors often stop working on gens and run there in advance, which is wasted time, if I would actually go back and pick up. There wouldn't be a reason to even try going to help that survivor, when you know for 100% they can do it themselves. That's why Unbreakable is considered to be very good perk.
Slugging is either way of getting pressure by some killers. Any killer can do it to get pressure, but most of them return to hook them. It is also an answer to several situations survivors can create. Mainly impossible hooking locations, or other survivors saving.
Or new case, if I see survivor running into the basement for no reason, I am not hooking them there, because unless I am planning to tunnel them, which is likely to be difficult, they are most likely using Wicked to self-unhook.
I don't think game is so unbalanced that you would need basekit unbreakable for everyone. Your reasoning is strategy that you don't like, it's not fun for you. It's not because it is too strong. I don't think fun aspect is reason for such a major buff. That's why they introduced mori system to basically balance it for both sides and it didn't end well.
nothing that a theoretical basekit UB would get someone up with
Same thing is before. Basekit UB nerfs slugging hard, because it lowers pressure by huge amount. It's exactly same situation as we had with CoH and people didn't understood why it is so broken for several months. Some still don't…
It's way better (for killer) when another survivor needs to included for any action. CoH made it everyone could self-heal, which is way more effective than standard healing. Basekit unbreakable is doing exactly same.
Their recent designs and reworks other than Billy have been questionable at best
at least something we can agree on
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Feel free to write any ideas how to achieve this and I will tell you why it won't work, or how I would abuse it.
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Lobby waiting simulator sounds fun…
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That's nothing… Why so little % for such a handicap?
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@skylustv said:
kindred should be basekit if youre playing SOLO only
I would make it work differently.
You see every survivor, who is not in your group.So three SWF will be able to see that one solo survivor.
I think that's fair.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696502#Comment_3696502
I'm saying that any Killer can make use of cyclical hooking, and return to slugs and secure a hook while still providing pressure even with a basekit UB.
It doesn't kill it as a means of winning, as you need 6 downs to kill (with a 45s basekit UB). If you want to torture people with annoyances to win, then it should be proportionately harder to do so. The strategy isn't removed, but it is limited.Not having agency is the root cause of the majority of DBD's complaints. Addressing agency-less situations means less complaints, which means better game. Also hooked Survivors only lack agency in that they can't refuse an unhook. Being able to choose to wait or Kobe is agency, and only the foolish Mikaela unhooking in the face of the previously tunneling Killer within a deadzone is providing the Survivor soon to be off hook without agency. The arguable way to fix that is have an alternate 3 times longer unhook animation, but it fills the Survivor's anti-facecamp Kobe bar. That way the save was already done, it took longer to complete, but allows for the unhooking Survivor to run away from hook and the Killer can chase the unhooker or wait until the 59s mark to tunnel.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696858#Comment_3696858
(Points addressed in order of importance)
"Getting bleed out in my experience is mostly, because you annoyed the killer. I usually bleed out any survivors trying to go for saves with Background player." "I got bleed out few times … we went for Headon SWF, so that was definetly deserved."
So you purposefully ruin the experience of someone for using a normal perk within the game?!?! Are you alright IRL? I don't understand what would drive anyone to be so petty as to waste 4 minutes of their own, and someone else's life because they used a perk. This is especially why I think basekit UB should be a thing, to prevent this level of absurdist false justifications for engaging in these essentially griefing acts. Also if the SWF all died/got slugged, why did the Killer need to BM and bleedout? They simply could have not been a jerk and hooked the Survivors. This is the mindset that causes exit gate teabags against Killers who did nothing, because the last Killer bled people out for no actual reason.
At this point the only alternative to basekit UB is that 2m+ of bleedouts should be bannable (if you provide video evidence sitting under hook or crawling towards hook), because slugging at large clearly is only used by bad actors griefing people.
As far as 'push tunneling even more', that's just a self-report to not trying to learn to improve. I have a 74% winrate before the gens pop, I never actively attempt to camp or tunnel (unless they clearly tap a gen in my face, or I need the same Survivor for the 7th and 8th hook before a kill), and Ghosty/Clown/Legion/Myers are my most played/favorite Killers in descending order. It is possible to play (and win) without tunneling unless someone brainwashed the playerbase into thinking otherwise. Heck, C3 even did an excellent experiment where they purposely hooked each Survivor once, then each a second time, then finally went for kills with no gen Slowdown on Myers with a 68% winrate across 50 matches.Also normal Myers isn't even slugging heavy unless the Killer player is playing him to lose. See my previous posts in this thread on Oni math to see why that's objectively false. Can't speak to your specific Plague playstyle, but I've never needed to slug longer than 30s as Plague, even when trying to snowball with red puke, but I also learned to not overcommit, which most of the playerbase hasn't.
what would drive anyone to be so petty as to waste 4 minutes of their own,
I am petty for sure and I don't really waste my time. I usually watch something on second monitor meanwhile.
I have simple rule for myself. I never do things I wouldn't want others do. Then when someone do something I don't like, I do something they don't like.
Yes, I am really petty person.
I won't bleed out someone just because they did save with Background player. It's a perk. What I talked about is full group of players where their whole gole is to never get hooked. Dying under pallet on purpose, multiple flashlights / sabo builds. I will bleed them all out, if possible, because it's annoying for me and it's more effective than trying to hook them.
Are you alright IRL?
No. I am playing Dead by Daylight. Like what did you expect?
bleedouts should be bannable
There are situations, where bleeding survivor is only option other than letting them wiggle out. That survivor crawled into the corner fully aware I am not able to hook them, why should I not let them bleed out?
Survivors pointing and dying under pallet on purpose. I risk pallet save, if I pick them up, why not just slug everyone? It's quite effective way to win.
Oni? It's quite normal for me to snowball with multiple survivors downed and I am not always able to find everyone…
Should hiding as survivor be bannable? They are wasting my time too…
Fix to bleedout is not banning people, that's opposite of smart thing to do. Just create give up button under specific conditions for both sides. That would make it impossible for other side to waste time, if you don't want to.
As far as 'push tunneling even more', that's just a self-report to not trying to learn to improve.
When I said, I am tunneling survivors? When I said it's only viable strategy to win?
You think nerfing other strategies is not going to push tunneling more? If so, then you are really disconnected from reality. Are you alright IRL?
Nerfing other strategies makes tunneling stand out even more. That's not hard to understand. So players who want to win are going to use it more.
I don't really like tunneling, so I usually play Hit&run killers, or killers around slugging. So Wraith, Legion, Skull merchant, Oni, Twins.
It is possible to play (and win) without tunneling
never said it's impossible… but nice try
See my previous posts in this thread on Oni math to see why that's objectively false
It just seems like you don't understand how slugging works and what created pressure from it.
There are survivors, who I am not interested in ever picking up. Whole pressure is from making another survivor run there to pick them up. That's not really the case, when everyone has unbreakable, is it?With Oni using Ultimate weapon, I can manage to slug all 4 survivors, or having 1 hooked. It's not that rare, Oni is really good killer for this.
Also normal Myers isn't even slugging heavy unless the Killer player is playing him to lose.
If you never slug as Myers or Plague, you are not playing efficiently. Whenever I find two survivors together and manage to down one of them fast enough, I am going to slug them to get as much value from my power as possible.
If you don't use your power properly, then you are playing to lose.
Imagine going and picking up every survivor you manage to down as Twins. They would be terrible. I highly doubt that rework will get live, or it will kill Twins with tons of nerfs btw….
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Yay, why not to remove yet another strategy just so you push tunneling even more…
Also rework any power that is wasted on picking up survivor, so Plague, Myers, Twins (that won't end well), Oni.
Getting bleed out in my experience is mostly, because you annoyed the killer. I usually bleed out any survivors trying to go for saves with Background player. If they don't want to be picked up, I won't do it.
Want to remove flash light saves and pallet saves? Because slugging is only thing you can do about it.
I got bleed out few times, where most of it were Russian streamers and few times we went for Headon SWF, so that was definetly deserved.I don't think trying to give everyone basekit unbreakable is good way to fix it. Just let survivors give up, or bleed out faster. If everyone got slugged, you lost, that's it. There is no need to give second chances in basekit.
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@LeFennecFox said:
I think mc lean mentioned it a while ago when scott made his fake patch notes. Basically they don't want to overwhelm players with that much info and something about having it as a choice you consciously bring and know will be active is why? It doesn't make much sense to actual players of the game.
Yeah, also remember from last Q&A.
Issue of soloQ is not lack of information, but solo survivors just don't work together…Like really? How do you want to work together when you lack information about your teammates.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696256#Comment_3696256
Which you cannot possibly know.
Unless you engage in chat afterwards, you can't know the intentions of the person teabagging or hitting on hook. It doesn't have to be out of hate. It can be in good humour too.
Which you cannot possibly know.
So how can you be so sure it wasn't toxic?
You also don't know the intention behind those actions.
If they trashtalked him in chat, based on what OP said, then I would say it was toxic…
I am not saying all those actions are toxic. Tea bagging is valid thing to do, if you were never hooked and need to get killers attention for sure.
But Tea bagging in first chase after each dropped pallet? Not really
You could argue, it's valid strategy to annoy the killer, so they make mistake, but I would say that's still toxic.
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@Deepie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696240#Comment_3696240
Thank you for your suggestions, however those are things that I have done. However it's not very effective. I don't blame not having fun on the perks I bring or my opponent(s) bring. It's more like a feeling that this game isn't a horror game anymore, it's just pure competition and pressure. I've made a lot of friends on my way to getting here, a lot of them nice, some of them not, however many, and I mean it, many of them are no longer interested in the game. The nice guys, the people that say their gg's in the end-game chat, say "good try" after watching me end the loop or saying "all good no worries" after timing out on the hook are no longer playing with me. Instead, they are replaced with people who are trying their absolute best to frusturate the opponent side, even though a game is about having fun, not ruining someone's day.
Here is one of the messages I've recieved from my friends as an example.It's more like a feeling that this game isn't a horror game anymore
It's not for several years.
DBD is game of tag most of the times. Only exception would be combination of indoor map and stealth killer.
Here is one of the messages I've recieved from my friends as an example.
Yeah, that seems right :D
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@Seraphor said:
Toxicity is everywhere, teabagging at exit gates, nodding and forward-backward movement on knocked survivors, hitting on hook,
This is not toxicity. This can only offend you if you choose it to. They're simply emotes, actions that the games allows everyone to do for expression or communication, and they don't always mean something offensive.
There used to be a thing called rivalry banter, where people could express their enjoyment at beating their opponent in good humour, and in turn take their oponents celebrations in stride.
But nowadays everyone assumes if someone is addressing them via the internet it must be a dire insult in some way.
slowing down crouching animations … not being able to crouch at all at exit gates
Not possible or ever going to happen. Crouching is a necessary gameplay mechanic for dodging projectile attacks and hiding behind cover. You slow this down and you drastically nerf survivors.
This is not toxicity.
Hmm, what do you consider as toxicity?
This can only offend you if you choose it to.
That's true, even if it is toxicity…
It becomes toxic, based on intention of the player. If whole purpose is to annoy other side, I would say it's toxic.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696245#Comment_3696245
I'd rather nerf endgame for both. See my comment above.
It would be funny if the exit gates only allowed 3 survivors out, then blocked for 30 seconds
It might be funny for SWF for few games.
That would feel bad for soloQ…
Last survivor on hook, it would be so hard to get 4k out, so most survivors would just leave asap, which I find boring. -
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696239#Comment_3696239
The last 2 survivors hide because it's almost guaranteed that the first one found is damned and the last one only has a chance if they hide and then find the hatch. It's an inevitable snowball.
It would be better if the snowball didn't exist and 4Ks (and conversely 0Ks) were much more difficult to obtain.
As it stands, and killer can basically guarantee a 3K becomes a 4K by wasting time.
I am fine with nerfing end game for killer, if you nerf early game for survivors too.
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That would need to rebalance a lot of maps…
And make many powers stronger, so it's worth such draw back.
Legion, Spirit etc. would feel terrible if even 1 second waste your whole power.
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I mean, you can turn off chat, if that is part of your problem.
As for killer, it's simple. Never let them have feeling like they are winning. Many survivors go on power trip, when you start struggling as a killer. So either play strong killer, or pick strong perks, or both.
As for survivor, I would say only fix is to play SWF. It's not so bad as shared experience and you are more likely to influence the match.
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Or let survivors to bleed out faster, so neither side can waste time?
The hell is this logic. Because on side can waste my time, I want to be able to waste time too?
It's not like survivors are not able to waste killer's time, right? Like waiting next to an exit gate…
Or simply hiding as last two survivors and refuse to even try work on gens.
I would rather try to fix current ways how to waste time then create more of them.
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That would be hell on earth for M1 killers….
Have you played against old Object of Obsession? Because this is exactly it, for everyother survivor.If you enjoy getting tunneled, this perk would be an amazing way how to get that.
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Funny is devs said they will look into it when many players were concerned about this topic with Iron Will being nerfed.
Well, they never did, or gave up on it… -
Oh my, I remember first version of hit validation. It was so bad I went on like a year break… Getting 2-3 hits validated while having around 30 ping…
Validation is still there, last week my grab got validated and I lost down for it, very annoying stuff mainly when my ping is usually lower than survivors. -
This concept has issue with how different 1v1 each killer has.
2 minutes against Plague without power? Yeah, that's possible.
2 minutes against Deathslinger? Good luck
You will have situations with this timer either it's impossible in most games for survivors to escape, or you will have killers who will struggle to get 4k, because of this feature.
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Seems like some people didn't play before BT basekit…
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691996#Comment_3691996
It was also a great perk for anti-tunneling since it encourages you to gain the four stacks, for more points. It was the best designed perk they made in my opinion because it was useful both grind, and gameplay wise. Like you said, they should revert both.
great perk for anti-tunneling since it encourages you to gain the four stacks
Damn, number of games I completely threw just to get my last stack… Good times
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btw I wouldn't just increase BP gain, because using BP will become an issue instead (even with new system).
Wouldn't it be better to keep everything same and just decrease total number of blood webs per prestige?
Also remove limit per category and just keep total limit BP per match. Killers don't care that much, but it would help survivors.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691679#Comment_3691679
30 games is not a lot. A million blood points is not a lot. I get several million on any given event.
I don't think it's good to have game playable only during events… just saying
I refuse to play DBD when it happens neither side has 100% BP bonus, because I simply don't see it worth my time. I wish we still had BBQ and WGLF…
There is 35 killers and 41 survivors, so not even talking about prestige 100, just to unlock full content of the game, you are going to need around 250M BP… that's a lot and keep increasingSo that should be around 7500 games, let's say average game duration is 10 minutes + 5 minutes (loading, queue times etc). That's 1875 hours, which kinda checks out based on my experience at least.
Spending almost 2k hours to unlock full content of a game? Really?
Thing is not only locked behind insane grind, but also quite big pay wall for all those DLCs.
I would never recommend DBD to new players. Neither survivor or killer.
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I called it.
3-gen feature nerfed basically every other alternative for gen regression and it's going to lead to survivors crying for pop/pain res nerfs, because that's basically what is left.
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@GeneralV said:
Honestly, same. The 400% bonus at the end was really making a difference, and it will be hard to play without it.
If only we still had BBQ and WGLF… they would help a lot.
Funny is if they create perk that does only BP part of BBQ, I would play with it…
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There is a counterplay to it and it works only on M1 killers, so I would say it's perfectly fine.
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If it means I get back old Deathslinger, I am fine with it.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690133#Comment_3690133
The problem is everyone remembers DS without CA's. That is what made it unfair. There was a shorter stint where DS had CA's, and was 5s, and that was fair.
1.2.1 to just before 2.6 (Oct 2016 → Mar 2019) was the janky DS the Killer after any pickup.
Then 2.6 to before 2.6.3 (Mar 2019 → Apr 2019) started to work as we know it now, with 3s Stun.
Then 2.6.3 to before 3.0 (Apr 2019 → Jun 2019) lasted 5s with Enduring reducing the stun timer.
Then 3.0 to before 4.6 (Jun 2019 → Mar 2021) lasted 5s, with no CAs.
Then 4.6 to before 6.1 (Mar 2021 → Jul 2022) had CA's with Blessing added in 5.4 (Nov 2021).
Then 6.1 to before 7.7 (Jul 2022 → Apr? 2024) had CA's with no endgame usage & disabled in endgame.
In that timespan, we had ~2.5 years of jank 5s DS, ~2.25 years of (effective) 3s DS (~0.5 without CA's ~1.75 with and no endgame), ~1.75 years of 5s without CAs and worked in endgame, ~1.25 years of 5s with CAs. So the fair version we had lasted for less than 1/6th of the total time its been in the game. (Personally I think it working in endgame is also fine, but I understand they wanted a 'no such thing as tunneling in endgame' [imo mostly for Kobes].)
Essentially you are remembering 5/6ths of historic DS that doesn't apply to the new version.
As far as burning a perk because they meme at a locker instead of being useful, that is perfectly fine. They decided to misuse a limited resource and get burned for it. Dropping Shack pallet to try to get Legion out of power when they just activated it is equally foolish, and punished similarly overall.They decided to misuse a limited resource and get burned for it.
Exactly and I am going to punish them for it every time.
I don't mind going for other survivors, but if someone wants my attention, I will give it to them.
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@mizark3 said:
As I've recommended in other threads, I think it should be 5s per gen remaining. That way at 1 gen it lasts 5s, and 5 gens it lasts 25s.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687132#Comment_3687132
Then don't tunnel and pickup the Survivor that rescued or the other two instead? Why is this such a herculean task to chase the remaining 75% of the lobby? Or at the very least bait out a CA from the Survivor before tunneling them.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689953#Comment_3689953
This is the actual issue. There needs to be a basekit solution, that doesn't require 4 people all bringing the same perk. I've recommended full on invisibility (for the same 10s of basekit BT, ended short on CA) in the past (like Spirit when phasing can't see Survivors), but I would have it include all visual and audio clues. (Grunts of pain/Scratch Marks/Pools of Blood/Vomiting when infected/etc.) I would also disable Distortion/Iron Will/other 'hiding' perks when you have less hooks than any other Survivor. That way Killer can find people that aren't a 'tunnel target'.
Why is this such a herculean task to chase the remaining 75% of the lobby?
because I remember old DS, where survivors loved to body block the killer, then jumped into locker. I am going to punish that.
If they forced DS, I know they are without a protection, so why wouldn't I tunnel them at that point?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689863#Comment_3689863
Well seeing as it isn't actually "regressing" per say, just spreading it around and we're limited on kicks, does it even need a cooldown?
I mean, you can't kick it again as long it's regressing and there is 3-gen feature, so probably not.
It might be really annoying to play against it. Imagine you get hit 99% gen with pop and this version. If you are unlucky, you get back to 23%.
It would be really funny to kick 5% gen and just see it increase progression, because you also managed to hit high % gen. -
@Blueberry said:
I tend to want to move away from skill check perks since it hurts new players more while being useless against good players. We kind of want the total opposite of that.
Let me know what y'all think about this idea.
Oppression - When you kick a generator, that generator and 3 other random generators will all have their current generator progress equalized between them and begin regressing.
So the actual gen regression as we all know is nearly irrelevant with how slow it is, but this effect would essentially keep spreading the progress over multiple gens. So if you had a gen at 80 seconds of progress, this perk would put them all at 20 seconds. A quite weird effect. It might not even need a cooldown since we're limited on kicks and it's not actually giving "regression" per say, just spreading it out.
Oppression - When you kick a generator, that generator and 3 other random generators will all have their current generator progress equalized between them and begin regressing.
That sounds cool and could actually be worth that high cooldown. I would still prefer to lower it a little tho.
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Oppression would be fine with way lower cooldown. It's not about skill checks, but it would be basically ruin on kicking gens.
80 is just insane for that effect. Make it 40 and it might be viable.
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3-gen and slugging would be lovely.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681972#Comment_3681972
There's no shortage of killers. On EU there's a survivor bonus 90% of the time. The question is why would they want to put 80% of their players at an unfair and unfun disadvantage to appease killer mains.
Well, but that 10% is when most players play, during the evening.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688957#Comment_3688957
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688964#Comment_3688964
Both answers dont answer the question why you would not aim to remove things which make people DC. One with less words, one with more words (but I give bonus points for including the Lore of a Character, this will totally make people DC /s).
The fact: You cannot remove DCs or Hook Suicides completely. Thats it. Even if that Dwight DCs because he was the first getting downed, this does not mean that it is pointless to make Skull Merchant enjoyable against it (which does not mean to make her weak, I know that my Killer Mains on this Forum will say that fun = weak, but this is just not true).
You will always have people who DC for the most stupid reasons. Whether it is being downed first, being on the disliked Map, a Gen done too fast, not liking the Killer, missing your first Feral Frenzy Hit as Legion… Quite a bunch of reasons, all of them quite dumb.
However, this should not be the excuse to not change things which are unfun to go against.
Many people DC/suicide against Skull Merchant, change her.
"But people also DC against Wraith."… Yeah, whatever. No point in saying that.
To repeat it: You cannot fix 100% of DCs or Hook Suicides. But you can fix some of them.
However, this should not be the excuse to not change things which are unfun to go against.
Sure, I am fine with changes, but I don't believe unfun is a reason for strict nerfs, which many players would want.
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Nerf: there is not really a killer I would go for straight nerf…
Buff: Deathslinger and many others, but it's personal here
Rework: Myers, Freddy
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688737#Comment_3688737
Of course it is the Killer. If Survivors suicide that much it is a good indicator that something is wrong with the Killer. You dotn get those high numbers of DCs and Suicides against any other Killer.
And it is obviously not strength, since you wont even get those numbers against Nurse.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688746#Comment_3688746
Why not try to solve the problems which make people DC or suicide on Hook? Nobody ever was able to answer this, lol.
And yes, I know that some people will DC or suicide when they found first or for whatever reason. But reducing the unfun things which make the majority DC would be the right step.
Why not try to solve the problems which make people DC or suicide on Hook?
It's very easy to make survivors DC… just saying
It's not something you can fix. Unless you want to give them free win every game…
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Maybe most players simply run out of cakes / BPS during the year?
I was expected to have farming festival nonstop, but it's really rare to see more than 2 cakes, so reality is same / worse than during anniversary.
I expected more people farming to be honest.
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that survivor becomes healthy between each unhook
What if survivor simply never heal? There are killers like Legion, where you shouldn't heal.
Only people that wouldn't want this type of mechanic are the players who can only get their kills by tunneling the first survivor.
or people who can see flaws in suggestions.
original base movement speed
do you mean 100% as survivors? So basically automatic loss?
Survivors dying on hook would be really fun for this... Definetly never na issue, where survivors just give up, right? So my options will be to let that survivor bleed out, or become useless for rest of the trial?
Next level bully squad, everyone take same skin and bait killer to killing someone, then bully festival can begin. -
@CaseTrain3322 said:
if you have strong enough killers :)
and exactly why I must run only slowdowns and gen-block perks?
Also 3 gen and camping isn't that healthy neither, hit and run was okish, I was talking about the sadako and pig nerfs.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688742#Comment_3688742
and exactly why I must run only slowdowns and gen-block perks?
You don't, but that means you don't play to win, so why bother tunneling?
I was talking about the sadako and pig nerfs.
Pig is not really nerfed in my opinion. She is more fun for both sides.
Sadako, not so much…
3-gen feauture doesn't affect only 3-gen, it directly nerfed multiple perks, which is not good in my opinion.
I don't care about camping that much, just saying it's a nerf to other playstyles.
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play them without tunneling, at high MMR it isn't even a choice to do that
it is, if you compensate with perks, or killer.
You don't need to tunnel in most games, if you have strong enough killer, or enough slowdown perks…
It's a pitty they keep nerfing everything else. Camping, 3-gen feature… Hit&run just got sloppy nerfed and STBFL.