VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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So terrible changes:
→ The Skull Merchant no longer receives the Undetectable status effect for 8 seconds after deploying a drone.→ Survivors hacking drones now receive the Oblivious status effect. This effect lingers for 1 second after either completing or abandoning the interaction.
→ Deploying a drone now grants the Skull Merchant a 5% Haste Status Effect for 5 seconds. This effect cannot be gained while in Chase and entering a Chase ends it prematurely.
→ Drones in Stealth Mode no longer rotate.
→ Drones in Scouting Mode return to Stealth Mode after 30 seconds. The timer resets every time a Survivor is scanned.
→ Successfully hacking a Drone now removes -1 stack of Lock-On.
Sure:→ The old "tracked" indicator should be reintroduced to the game (was in PTB, never made it to live).
→ The Skull Merchant can now see the coverage of Laser Cones from drones in Stealth Mode. They appear in white.
→ Reduced the duration of the Hindered status effect that Claw-Trapped Survivors who are scanned by a Drone receive to 4 seconds. (was 6 seconds)
→ Increased the Hindered status effect that Claw-Trapped Survivors who are scanned by a Drone receive to 15%. (was 10%)
→ Increased the Killer Instinct effect that the Skull Merchant gets when Claw-Trapped Survivors are scanned by a Drone to 4 seconds. (was 3)
→All Survivors that get Locked On now suffer from the Deep Wound status effect.
→ The Skull Merchant now sees disabled Drones auras in a different color.
Other:
→ The Skull Merchant no longer gets a stacking Haste status effect for each Tracked Survivor.As I suggest with my changes. I would make it so you get 3% whenever is someone visible on your radar and 3% whenever someone has claw trap. That already makes it easy to track without making it useless.
Skull merchant is simply dead without haste and undetectable.
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Someone wants freddy replaced as worst killer in DBD…
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702624#Comment_3702624
Killer can have total 8 per gen not while match so potentially so in 3 gen situation that means 3×8= 24 regression events. I pointed out it's not fine as 3 gen stragedy still powerful with the other changes that made one gen kick very impactful. I don't have control over my teammates to make them have patience for 30+ minutes match.
It's still easy for killer to camp them even if my teammates play well as killer can caught survivor from bad situation when they can start the chase 10+ times and wait when they get lucky enough.
3 gen situation that means 3×8= 24 regression events
Maybe don't focus all three gens?
Kinda hard to break 3-gen, when you don't know how…3-gen feature was supposed to prevent hour long game, it does more than that. It's not supposed to win games for you, because you don't know how to neither prevent, or break 3-gen.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702050#Comment_3702050
It shouldn’t cost a perk slot to find survivors hiding for 20 mins.
There is many things that shouldn't cost a perk in theory, but they do. That's how DBD works.
You want to find a survivor? Get a perk, or killer that can do it.
But the issue is only viable perks for it are going to be Whispers, or Spies from the Shadows. Standard information perks won't really help against this.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702032#Comment_3702032
So you take it out on the next group of survivors because the previous ones didn't express sufficient gratitude? You can generally win without tunneling or camping every game. It's an unranked public match.
You can generally win without tunneling or camping every game
every? no
most? yes
I always adapt based on how survivors play. I consider that normal.
If survivors either annoyed me, were efficient at gens, or first chase was bad, then I will tunnel someone out sooner or later.
If you want to win, then it's usually good idea to take someone out usually around 2 gens left.
But that doesn't change, that right now in DBD, there is absolutely no logical reason to focus new survivors, unless you use perk for it.
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I would say use Ultimate weapon, but that is not going to work for long, because they want Distortion to be an ultimate counter perk for some reason…
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Why exactly would killer ever close hatch? If that survivor is healthy, there is nothing I can do stop them from leaving with most killers.
Waiting at hatch 2024
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Too many to list…
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701441#Comment_3701441
Basic empathy? The human condition?
Well, from my experience survivors don't really appreciate, when killer plays nice., quite the opposite. So why bother?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701529#Comment_3701529
I really hope this mentality will cease to exist. The developers are not "insert role" - sided. Both sides get nerfed and buffed.
If someone solely plays one role, their mindset can become very focused on the well being of this one role alone, antagonizing the other role in the process.
Buffs and nerfs in this game are weird. They mostly don't come in slight or well thought out patches but with a sledge hammer, deleting the problem in an instant. Look at ultimate weapon or overcharge. Both of these perks are / will vanish from load outs due to the nerfs being too severe. Healing also got the sledge hammer until the community called out the devs for this decision. Similarly to how they wanted to erase 40s off the Pigs timer.
It goes both ways, buffs are also sometimes horrendous. Look at twins for example. How did they not see, that these changes would create an unbeatable chasing monster? One can't be that oblivious. How did mft and eruption remain in the states they had been for that long???
The game favour's no side except the one that brings the stronger stuff.
The devs favour no side.
Well, I am just allergic to "opposite of smart" statements.
Survivor crying that only that side gets nerfs, which clearly is quite the opposite, is just exactly that. So I am going to call them out on it.
It doesn't really help that I am against most of those nerfs tho…
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701441#Comment_3701441
Because the pattern of behavior indirectly hurts your own experience.
As Survivor tolerance for tunneling and camping goes down, so to does their willingness to be an active participant in your game.
You would do well to remember that online gaming is a social contract, and your behavior online only benefits you for as long as others are willing to tolerate it.
Your aversion to social responsibility follows you around like a scourge, and should you continue to disregard the influence you have on others, you should know that you are directly responsible for many good things coming to an end; whether you feel it or not.
You would do well to remember that online gaming is a social contract
Well, neither side seems to care, so why should I? Sounds like too much work for little to no benefits for myself.
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My reaction whenever anyone rage quits (any side, any game):
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Issue is SBMM use basically only worst things it can bring.
It simply makes game "sweatier", but you have nothing to get from it as a player. You can't see it, you don't get anything for it.
It's more like a punishment than reward…I am not saying ranks were perfect, but they separated regularly playing from new / after break players. That seemed good enough for me.
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701492#Comment_3701492
Sorry you can't hit a gen more than 8 times? LOL
Well, I thought only poor survivors like you get nerfed… Not really, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
Funny is that except MFT, what exactly you had nerfed recently? Other than that it's mostly killer nerfs…
So recently:- Pig can't see traps
- It's easier to play against Clown (vision)
- Mangled was nerfed
- 3-gen feature
- Onryo was basically nerfed
- Blight best addon's got nerfed
- Blight hug tech is about to get nerfed
- Chuky flick got removed
- Save the best for last was nerfed
But only survivors get nerfs, right? Doesn't seem like it…
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701458#Comment_3701458
You're not the one having everything about your role in the game being nerfed constantly… it's not about you? lol
You're not the one having everything about your role in the game being nerfed constantly
I am not? You are not good at reading patch notes then.
I definetly don't have to deal with 3-gen feature, right? Killer techs removed, AFC mechanic..
But oh no, MFT got nerfed, so sad…
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701441#Comment_3701441
It's not about your weird desire to tunnel and camp. It's about how the devs mitigate it so it's fair for both sides. :)
Just saying right now there is not a reason to chase different survivors other than their feelings…
It's not about my desire, but it is about your feelings… Funny
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What is my incentive to not tunnel or camp?
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- "Hold M1 to work on gens"
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@Xernoton said:
Can we stop trying to punish people for playng with their friends? I mean, since when is this a crime? They payed for the game just like the rest of us and there is even an option in the lobby to invite your friends, so it's not like the game is telling them not to do it.
Since the OP got destroyed in the game.
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That's simply terrible idea. DBD is already bad enough for new players, this would make it hell.
I will rather try to figure out how to help soloQ and new players than nerfing SWF. You kinda need SWF for this game to work. DBD is terrible to start playing alone, or start playing overall. Punishing players for playing with their friends is simply terrible idea.
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Or just buff Trail of Torment, so it is an alternative?
If you simply lower the cooldown a little, then it would be good. That goes for lot of perks.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700831#Comment_3700831
Not really.
All it takes is matching hook stages to gen speeds. That's it.
A 90 second hook stage means waiting around to tunnel one survivor is guaranteed to lose you gens. The best play becomes leaving the hook alone and pressuring survivors who are actually doing the objective instead.
Completely unabusable, and makes tunneling less efficient, which is exactly what you need to cut back on tunneling. If it's less efficient, players will automatically start doing it less.
Bonus that this also is an unabusable way to do the same thing for camping.
All it takes is matching hook stages to gen speeds. That's it.
This would not remove tunneling at all. You mean the more gens left, the longer can survivor stay on hook, right?
Most tunneling situations are created by survivors, this won't change it. Average players simply don't understand even now that staying on hook is safest spot for survivor who is getting tunneled.
You will still have most survivors unhooking way before time limit and often in front of the killer. You will still have survivors healing right under the hooked.
I don't think this is abusable, it would definetly make it easier for survivors overall, so you don't get into second stage so often, because your teammates are bad.
But it wouldn't help that much against tunneling.
A 90 second hook stage means waiting around to tunnel one survivor is guaranteed to lose you gens
Sounds as camping, not tunneling.
Best way to tunnel in my opinion is to focus two survivors. It's less of a gamble and often more pressure.
The best play becomes leaving the hook alone.
That's already best way. Unless killer can pressure some gens around the hook, but that wouldn't change with your feauture.
Completely unabusable, and makes tunneling less efficient
Not really and I have talked about completely removing tunneling, which are basically immortality features. This feature won't achieve it, so I am still right.
Bonus that this also is an unabusable way to do the same thing for camping.
This is more against camping than tunneling.
Don't take me wrong, I don't think your idea is bad. It might be one of features to help mainly soloQ, which would be good. But it wouldn't completely remove tunneling. Nowhere near that.
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Yeah, I have had that. Basically survivor did a save after someone died on hook on your end, right? Probably ping thing… Still was kinda funny to me.
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@sinkra said:
E-sports in a game in which good killers literally have a 100% win rate 😂
You have never seen actual tournament in dbd, have you?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700816#Comment_3700816
When changed - Ok so its been bad most of the time I played through MMR. That makes sense with the rate of my growing dissatisfaction with the game.
Comp rules make the game more fair - I'm sorry, but what. I remember seeing a Huntress facecamp a player from first hook. I remember Blights and Nurses tunnel people miliseconds off hook. I remember seeing clock callouts and everything that doesn't make the game fun. Every comp match I've seen is an unplayable sweatfest where both sides actively ruin their opponents chance of having fun all for a $5 subway card. Heck, even the Huntress facecamp could still be done today (with the anti-facecamp Kobe) because it was on a hill, so the Huntress can just camp the chokepoint instead of the hook itself. None of what I've seen in comp is fair or fun. It's trying to duct-tape garbage together and seeing what falls off, while pretending they made the Mona Lisa.
To be fair, I've seen comp rules ruin games like Halo and Smash, so I'm somewhat poisoned to their rules. At the same time I've seen good comp rules like DOTA and CS and SC. The games designed to be entertainingly competitive (DOTA/CS/SC) stay fun to watch and play under their rulesets. The games designed with plenty of fair RNG elements (as in both sides can utilize them) are stripped of that RNG and also their fun. DBD comp fits under the Halo/Smash bad umbrella of comp for me, and not the DOTA/CS/SC good umbrella. DBD comp could encourage split hooks with things like 5/3/1 points for hooks, and you compare your total against the enemy team, with ties going to the fastest final escape. I've not seen those though, and only seen the worst rules imaginable. While I don't doubt a tourny/scrim setup with decent rules exists, the most common rulesets I've seen have been bad.
(But this is all a side tangent, feel free to reply to this but I won't reply again on this side tangent of the thread.)I'm sorry, but what. I remember seeing a Huntress facecamp a player from first hook. I remember Blights and Nurses tunnel people miliseconds off hook. I remember seeing clock callouts and everything that doesn't make the game fun.
Those are playstyles, not really affected by rules. Rules are for perks / items / addons / killers.
Each tournament has different rule set and they are interesting to watch for me at least… I am interested in best players game can offer and how they handle things.
Both sides use best and most optimal playstyles and it's interesting to see how other side handles it.
I've seen is an unplayable sweatfest where both sides actively ruin their opponents chance of having fun
It's not about ruining opponent's fun. This approach is what makes it fun for them. I think all those playstyle are completely fine, it becomes an issue when you bring them and other side is unprepared (public games). But they usually play custom games, where both sides know what is coming.
I quite enjoy 1v1 and I would love to see that as mode in DBD, it's kinda annoying to handle it in custom games.
good comp rules like DOTA
Yeah, I enjoy playing / watching Dota a lot…
you compare your total against the enemy team, with ties going to the fastest final escape
Quite often I see comparing results in order: gens → hook stages → unique hooks
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That sounds very boring…
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@Neaxolotl said:
We really don't even need to keep it viable
Issue is features that would completely remove it, almost always can be heavily abused by survivors.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700488#Comment_3700488
Skill Level/Competitive - I mean I like to win, but I like to win without 'sweatlording'. I don't like the comp scene whatsoever, because they encourage the worst aspects of the game instead of using their custom rulesets to discourage them. I can easily win Killer with 74% winrate (before the gens pop) so mathematically I should be in the highest MMR.
Fixed Matchmaking - I'm not sure when this was changed. I played actively back with rank based matchmaking, up until about Chucky, then my interest flattened out. I play here and there, but the latest tome is the only one I haven't completed on release since I started playing.
Tracking hooks - Yeah I typically only lose track against the toughest Survivors, because I have too much mental baggage to shoulder in order to ensure I win (These 12 pallets are dropped, and these 5 are unkicked, those 2 gens are the focus of the Survivors, I last saw the 3rd Surv at this area, one has Shadow-Step and Sprint Burst, but the other person has DH+Balanced and I just can't be bothered to track Feng A's cosmetics from Feng B. I hooked Feng 3 times, but idr which one got 1 and which one got 2.).
I'm not sure when this was changed.
That's long time ago, few months after release, because games were hell and queue times even worse.
They made it little bit more strict few months back, but not so much as first version.
I don't like the comp scene whatsoever, because they encourage the worst aspects of the game instead of using their custom rulesets to discourage them.
I don't understand this. They created custom rulesets just to make their games more fair.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700484#Comment_3700484
Half-tunnel - I see the examples now. Generally I would still consider that enough pressure to be applied, especially since I will be in chase with the next Survivor within seconds. Understandable if you don't like the level of pressure '-45 gen seconds' would provide.
Secure pressure with a hook+Wicked/Deliv - I understand that it might provide pressure, but that's why I call it unsecured. I can't know if they are on comms, or have UB, or have Soul Guard when I brought Devour, or are in range of Exponential. I can hedge my bets on a hook state counting against their total, even if I can't rely on someone else to rescue (from Deliv/Wicked/Luck Offerings+Perks). That's what makes a hook 'secured'. It provides permanent irreparable damage. As far as self-unhooks, they are only an impediment if I was reliant on that hook for pressure. I rarely need the pressure from the hook so much beyond early game. Once we fall into the rhythm of mid-game, I feel secure with the hook stage counting against their max.
45s of pressure - I view things in both real time seconds, and gen seconds. Both sides fight against the clock, which is being wound by the opposition. If I can prevent 45 gen seconds with 10 or fewer of my own, then I probably was in the green net positive, give a rough 4-1 ratio for Survivor against Killer. Even if I hit someone healing under hook and leave them slugged, I denied 45s of gen time (under a theoretical basekit UB).
Gens pop = I lose - It more is like I view gradients of winning (with hatch not counting). Like if you played a total war game where they say 'Pyrrhic Victory/Close Victory/Decisive Victory/Heroic Victory'. Anything past gens popping is a Pyrrhic Victory at best. If I had to kill someone before 2 hooks each, Close Victory at best. If I killed everyone with 2 hooks each before my first kill, then it was a Decisive Victory. If I get all kills by Devour Hope Mori's, I get a Heroic Victory. I aim for the best since I have to make my own fun in the game, as the fun doesn't come naturally.3-gen - Yeah Surge and Eruption are certainly unfortunately impacted disproportionately by the change. I would want those to have something like only counting as a 'half-event' or something.
New reason to be jerks - Fair enough.especially since I will be in chase with the next Survivor within seconds. Understandable if you don't like the level of pressure '-45 gen seconds' would provide.
That's still once less survivor involved in that, who can keep working on gen without thinking.
It provides permanent irreparable damage.
I care more about how much time that action gives me rather than simply hooks. Unless it is early game, first hook means nothing.
I denied 45s of gen time (under a theoretical basekit UB).
Which is simply lower than current version. 45 seconds of slugging + 45 seconds of gen time (because survivor doesn't have to leave).
Even if combined time of two survivors is lower, it's simply better. I have had this conversation multiple times about CoH (selfhealing in general) and this is exactly same. Multiple survivors included is always better for the killer. 45 seconds of one survivor is not that much.
I probably was in the green net positive
Still worse and difference between slugging and tunneling would become higher. So why handicap myself so much just to spare survivor?
Gens pop = I lose - It more is like I view gradients of winning (with hatch not counting)
I prefer Otz's approach. Game doesn't end until survivors leave. Your feature would make this kinda impossible. There is simply no way to get comeback without slugging.
I would want those to have something like only counting as a 'half-event' or something.
I would just make it count only kicks, or make it work only when there is 1 gen left (actually 3-gen feature).
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700517#Comment_3700517
And that's on those survs if they do constantly go to such a zone, and the play is to indeed bleed em.
Yeah, but what exactly is the benefit here? How is this feature good for anyone, when counterplay is bleeding out survivors?
I can agree on scourge hooks. That's a resource, but as I said they could be simply replaced with normal hook to deny scourge perks. -
I wouldn't mind some buffs to Dredge, mainly fix locker spawns.
But this is not "few". That's basically everything.
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@Xrono said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700511#Comment_3700511
There is no fun beeing downed 4 minutes, in a game after another game and one more and more time, and why are all killer so scared of the hatch? Giving the last survivor the oppurtinities to get out thats why the hatch is there. Its random generated. Its a 50/50 chance, May the killer get the hatch may the surv find it first. you can still get a 4k…. so? its not guaranteed that the surv will find first the hatch…
why are all killer so scared of the hatch
I have done it for adepts / challenges, but I am usually too lazy to do this…
Its a 50/50 chance
That's not really true.
There is higher chance I am going to find hatch as a killer (I am faster), but then there is also gate game, where it depends on map. Some maps are impossible to escape by gate (I can see both gates with little movement), some are really easy (mostly indoor maps).
Adepts are annoying for some killers (bad perks, or killer in general), I am not willing to "bet" on getting it, or not.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I look at hooks for killers just like the gens for survs, a resource to be managed.
If the survs don't plan some for which gens get done, they risk a nasty 3-gen setup making their lives much harder. If a killer doesn't plan out which hooks will be used up they risk a dead zone for hooking. Rng effects both in terms of possible spawns, and true they should be monitored in map generation, and yes there are some spots that need tinkering on certain maps. But overall killers need to keep in mind which hooks get consumed.
If a killer doesn't plan out which hooks will be used up they risk a dead zone for hooking.
I mean, outcome for this is often worse for survivors. If they notice and start running there, I am going to bleed them out.
They are not going to win by this (most likely). It happened once, where they won, because it was The Game and they had Exponential boon, I am pretty sure it was their goal tho.
Only case where this is true are Scourge hooks, but those could just be replaced by normal hook when survivor dies there.I don't see removing hooks has any benefit for the game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
We're assuming this gets disabled in endgame? Then we like it. Though we will point out that killers who know this will be slugging more.
Though we will point out that killers who know this will be slugging more.
I don't know about others, but I consider slugging "better" than tunneling. It gives a killer some pressure and survivor has chance to recover and keep playing.
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allowing the survivor to unhook themselves on their second hook if they got back-to-back hooked.
Hmm, that's not a bad idea actually…
If you would like to display hook stages for each survivor to killer with this feature.
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As I suggested in another post.
Make it so survivors can give up after getting slugged for 1 minute (in a row). Doesn't have to be last two survivors. Then jsut replace that survivor with a bot.
Killer can still get 4k, if they want and you won't need to wait till you bleed out, or something.
1 minute should be enough for other survivors to save you, if possible.
I wouldn't do it for killing, because it would make it bad idea to implement unless it is literaly two survivors left, but then it is kinda "DC for hatch".
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Define actual buffs?
I wouldn't really go for overall survivor buff, but rather soloQ focused buffs. Basically implement things to help soloQ without affecting SWF much.
I would definetly start with showing other survivor builds, but there are other features that could work too.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700439#Comment_3700439
Nope. Most (casual) people won't drop 15$ for skin and suddenly play lot Deathslinger.
Its because of the Tome Challenges. As always with every Tome that features a killer(s) they will rise in pickrate. Always. Then they will drop down to their avarage after the Tome ends and new begins. Its boosted number in a way.
Oh right, he had Tome challenges.
Well, I have started to play him again just for that skin… I haven't played him since his nerf, but that skin is just too good.
I have stopped again tho…
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700465#Comment_3700465
Win without Regression/Tunnel, strong Killer, or weaker Survs - With this matchmaking, the last condition is very common (more than 3/4ths of my matches as Killer have clear weak links). I can't honestly recall the last time I faced all 4 Survivors that were actually my skill level, it's always I am mildly to significantly better than them (mostly 2-3 Survs), or they are mildly to significantly better than me (mostly 1-2 Survs), and rarely in-between. If they fixed matchmaking, then I would say this could be a fair point, but they don't seem to be doing that anytime soon.
Showing Hook stages per Surv - Yeah I think this would be good. I more often have the problem of 'oh shoot they were death hook' than 'garsh darn I don't know who I'm tunneling (it's clearly Feng and Mikaela, fudge anyone maining them, I hate you)'.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700467#Comment_3700467
It doesn't punish the 8 hooking winning skilled Killer though. It only punishes the 3 hook tunneling unskilled Killer. It rewards skill, and punishes greed.
I can't honestly recall the last time I faced all 4 Survivors that were actually my skill level, it's always I am mildly to significantly better than them
It depends how you play. Nothing against you, but from some of your statements, you don't seem like a competitive player. You didn't seem to care when someone leaves. Which is definetly valid way to play DBD, but it just won't throw you against tryhards with this approach.
I was griding for rank 1 last month and did something about 60 +/- 4ks in a row (not really, one game was cheater on The game), games after that were anything but easy. But I think that pushed match making a lot.
If they fixed matchmaking, then I would say this could be a fair point,
Current match making is the fixed one. There was a strict match making at start and a lot of players hated it.
oh shoot they were death hook
Yeah, I have that quite often. Mainly with Legion, because I simply don't track who I hooked.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700426#Comment_3700426
Slugging comparisons - For both versions if someone wants to secure pressure, they have to hook. For both versions, someone picking up is almost always more efficient gameplay, and can put the Killer at risk for a reverse snowball. For downing an unhooked Survivor, it still results in the person playing the game, it just doesn't require an altruistic pickup. The issue I'm not understanding is why a Killer would tunnel only to then go 'oopsie-doopsie I didn't mean it'. If I'm going back to hook, I can chase the rescuer instead. Where is the scenario where I need to slug someone that I don't plan on hooking (unless I'm just not planning on killing anyone)?
I view pressure in two camps, secured and unsecured. Anything short of a hook is unsecured. Injuries are unsecured, slugging is unsecured, gen kicks are unsecured, and hooks/basekit kill methods are the only way to secure that pressure to ensure a response is required. I can still provide 45s of pressure on a Survivor by slugging them, and their team can shorten that timer if they pick them up. I don't require a hook in this theoretical.Currently people aren't leaving gens to pick people up until well later in the recovery, because it seems like the Killer is hovering around them. If everyone has unbreakable the best option is to hook people, but only within the 45s timer if you suspect selfish gameplay. That is easily accomplished on near every Killer unless I decided to teleport cross map as Freddy.
As far as endgame is concerned, if I didn't bring an endgame perk like Blood Warden, I consider all gens completing a loss, but that's just me. If I brought all perks to deal with early/mid-game, then I should win before mid-game ends. If I brought Blood Warden, then that's my win condition in endgame. Not only that, but people will predominantly crawl in endgame instead of recover, so it still helps to slug in mass during endgame even with basekit UB.As far as the anti-3 gen feature, I haven't triggered it once when I wasn't playing overly campy in my 3-gen. I haven't had a single game's outcome changed, or my playstyle altered, as a result of it. From people complaining about it, they included recordings of their gameplay that showed them playing gen defense, or camping 3-gens, or kicking without a gen perk when they had a Survivor on screen. That is exactly the type of behavior that was meant to be curtailed, and the people refused to learn and adjust their playstyle before complaining about it.
Not take the free hook or two, it gives almost no pressure - No one is needed to save the Survivor, but they still are 1/3rd the way to their death. That's plenty of pressure for me. So no, I don't see the issue with Wicked or Deliverance. Plus slugging them still provides 45s of pressure on 1 Survivor at the minimum. I would agree that slugging wouldn't be worth it in basement because of the time to walk in and out, but not hooking someone into a Wicked/Deliv hop off hook.
Never play Twins - Naw in general I like everyone in the match to have fun. I don't even have fun playing Twins, so why would I play a Killer just to annoy 4 other people? I can do that by playing Blight or Wesker and have fun myself at the same time. I do play them for tomes and dailies, but even then I can just down with Charlotte against the singular PS player.
Pickups not a threat/only play soloq? - I'm about 50% Killer, 40% soloq, 10% (uncoordinated) SWF. Last stats I recall soloq was 60% minimum, and 4-man SWF was 10% maximum. Plus that requires the SWF to be coordinated, which is also a tall order. This not only requires them to be coordinated, it also requires them not to pump gens instead. If they are hovering around me like flies, they gave me a free win from 33% gen slowdown (2 on gens, 1 in chase, 1 following at their best case times).Corners/Indoor maps too - Indoor maps have plenty of hooks. That 3 sabo example I gave was on RPD. There is the hook in main, up the stairs, in the side hallway on the east side, in the lobby on the west side, in the hallway on the west side. That map has way too many hooks as is (for sabo to be a playstyle). The worst case scenario is probably the front gate on the east side where the gen is, and even then you have the alley hook and the hook that spawns at the stairwell (either downstairs or upstairs), so still 2 minimum hooks. Midwich also got fixed and has 3 hooks available from the bathroom. I'm not sure which indoor map is a problem for an aware Killer player. As far as Oaks, there still is a minimum hook count, so that (IME) still has 2 hooks from every corner. That means I had to kill 2 players already from them comp cornering in that same corner, and now when I try to kill the third it finally becomes a problem.
Hold Hostage and reporting - That's fair that it is too cumbersome to report for some people. I know when someone is petty enough blatantly cheat or hold the game hostage or do anything else clearly uncool (and report worthy), that I get annoyed enough to start up the recording and prep the report. Also I don't think this would lead to more instances of people doing this then they already do. I know when I've had the free time against Nurses tunnel at 5 gens that I've hid as long as possible, while still touching gens to not technically count as holding the game hostage. Essentially this doesn't exacerbate or create a new problem that doesn't already exist. I don't get this happening to me as Killer (only the blatant cheaters), because I don't act like a sweatlord to people.The issue I'm not understanding is why a Killer would tunnel only to then go 'oopsie-doopsie I didn't mean it
- unhooked survivor bodyblocking me
- second survivor is hiding
- unhooked survivor started working on gen close to me
- healing under hook when I didn't find anyone else
- second survivor Sprint burst away leaving injured survivor behind
I think you get the point. There is lot of situations, which would be considered tunneling, but are made by survivors, who simply put the killer into that position.
if someone wants to secure pressure, they have to hook
Not really, as long it wastes time of multiple survivors, it gives me pressure. I don't need to hook.
I can still provide 45s of pressure on a Survivor by slugging them
45 seconds of one survivor is worse in my book than making another survivor leaving gen to help.
45 seconds of one survivor is not enough for me to care. I will just hook them whenever I can.
I don't know about you, but limiting options like this for the killer is simply boring.
I consider all gens completing a loss, but that's just me.
That's quitter talk… Definetly an easier approach. I would like to have an option to try get comeback
So no, I don't see the issue with Wicked or Deliverance.
That tells me quite a lot about this conversation. Those two perks are devastating for the killer, because it just removed any pressure.
That is exactly the type of behavior that was meant to be curtailed, and the people refused to learn and adjust their playstyle before complaining about it.
We relearned, just use pop/pain res and nothing else. What an amazing change…
I loved to use eruption/jolt. 3-gen feature made it trash. I can block gen way before 3-gen. So name should be changed at least…
Essentially this doesn't exacerbate or create a new problem that doesn't already exist
Yeah, but it gives player a new reason to do it. It would be quite good way how to win, when you have already lost as survivors. Just hide for few minutes and how killer is not petty enough to deal with it.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700450#Comment_3700450
I mean Killers can win without any gen regression perks, so I don't feel this would change anything for Killers that actually win through skill. If they lose from 1 excessive chase, that tells me that Killer's best couldn't beat the Survivor team's 2nd worst. If a Killer only wins from a 3v1, then they likely faced 3 better Survivors.
What this would do is encourage Killers to only kill once they believe they have already secured their place in the game and can go for the win. If I have 2 people on death hook, then I can advance my win quite easily.That's fair that it wouldn't blanket work for all regression perks, but I most certainly think it would work for Ruin (at 200%), PR, and Pop. The others would probably need more adjustments than that alone, that's why I gave the suggestions for buffs.
I mean Killers can win without any gen regression perks
Either you tunnel, or you have strong killer, or survivors are worse than you.
But when you get into actually equal match making, unless you have killer with fast chases, it will be difficult and getting into 1 gen left without any slowdown is quite stressful thing. That's why I hate hex builds.
What this would do is encourage Killers to only kill once they believe they have already secured their place in the game
You know what? I would be fine with it (most of those perk would need huge buffs), if you show hook stages for each survivor to the killer. Otherwise no.
That's fair that it wouldn't blanket work for all regression perks, but I most certainly think it would work for Ruin (at 200%), PR, and Pop.
Sure, I am fine with those. Those are good enough to take this limitation.
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I think we made the wrong choice with which nerf to revert. We should have brought it back to 200% instead. That being said, that would mean the removal on death would still apply.
Something we can agree on.
I would much rather have ruin give me more value, before either someone cleanse it, or someone dies. Than keeping it after killing someone.
Gen regression perks should not work once a Survivor is dead
Most slowdown perks would be terrible, mainly when you have it combined with 3-gen feature. Few % won't save them.
Just because it become 3v1, doesn't mean you won. If there is 1 gen left, you still need slowdown perks to win, otherwise one bad chase means you lose.
I would definetly make this perk specific thing, not global feature. It simply affects each perk differently and would make it very hard to balance. They are already quite bad at it.
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It's funny how Deathslinger pick rate increased and I am pretty sure, it is mostly for that Iron Maiden skin.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700278#Comment_3700278
Tunneling - Perhaps I'm not understanding your point. Right now, someone has to pick up, so are Killers actively camping the slugged body waiting to chase someone else in order to not tunnel? That's what it sounds like from my read. You currently have to return in about 30s because someone will pick them up otherwise, and this would merely extend that to 45s instead. Adding an extra 50% time to respond gives me more time to handle other issues and return in time.
Repeat points - When they have already been refuted, yeah they aren't in the list anymore.
- Background Player - Fair this perk should probably be shifted to speed boost after the pickup completes.
- Corners - There are 2-3 hooks available in the vast majority of maps from normal corners. Only edge case scenarios like Temple of Purgation with basement in shack are the outliers that can be used for this point, but they are rare even in comparison to slugging in general.
- Wicked - Why not take the free hook nonetheless? It forces them to use their perk, and IIRC someone told me they don't use Wicked because it doesn't grant basekit BT, so that is a free 2nd free hook after that.
- Power Struggle - It is only a threat in concert with Background Player/hovering Survivors. If you pick up instantly it denies PS, and even then it often is better to kill the threat of the pallet and pick up regardless. Its hilarious how many people think you won't just pick up and get a free hook (and sometimes a late pallet throw) as a result.
- Sabo - Only relevant in concert with corners. There are so many hooks in modern maps, that I have sabo'd 3 different hooks the Killer was heading towards and they still were able to hook. With corners you can sabo the 2-3 hooks reachable, and that is the only time it can be a threat.
Hide for Killer to surrender - I just explained in the previous post that that is holding the game hostage and reportable/bannable. "If it's the latter, we have rules against 'holding the game hostage' for that."
Perhaps I'm not understanding your point. Right now, someone has to pick up, so are Killers actively camping the slugged body waiting to chase someone else in order to not tunnel?
Ok, my bad. I will try to make it clear.
Right now, when for whatever reason I manage to down just unhooked survivor, I would like to slug them. Right now it gives me enough pressure and it gives that survivor chance to keep playing the game. I think that seems reasonable, right?
Issue is with all your explanations of this feature, you always expect killer to return back to hook that survivor, right? Saying 45 seconds is enough time to return, but that doesn't really work, when I am not planning to ever go back there. I want another survivor to leave gen and go help slugged survivor.
This simply doesn't work, when everyone knows that survivor will get picked up no matter what, that's basically half the pressure it gives me. Unless that survivor is dead hook, why would I ever leave the gen, when someone is slugged (as survivor)?
So I could try to slug for a hit on other survivor, then go back and hook that unhooked survivor again, but I don't want to do that. With your feature I am forced to do that. Issue is when I have to do it, there is no reason to wait for anything.
When everyone has unbreakable, the correct thing is to pick and hook a survivor whenever you can. Issue is you don't always have that option.
That can be for several reasons. In end game, if you want comeback, then basic hooking is not an option. You simply have to go for mass slugging. Or just hook and camp to take that 1 kill, which seems boring to me.
So summary:
Right now I am trying to get out of my way to not tunnel, which is done by slugging. Your feature would make me stop caring at all.This is exactly same outcome what 3-gen feature did. You are limiting killers options and most survivors don't like the results, then just call for more nerfs...
Why not take the free hook nonetheless? It forces them to use their perk
Because it gives me almost 0 pressure. Noone is needed to save that survivor, if I hook them. You see the issue? Same as CoH etc.
When I slug them, either someone else have to go into basement to pick them up, which is more pressure than hooking them, or they have to use unbreakable → forces them to use their perk.If I hook them, only correct play would be to stay around and not let them escape basement → go for hard tunnel.
Its hilarious how many people think you won't just pick up and get a free hook (and sometimes a late pallet throw) as a result.
You have never played Twins against Power struggle, have you? That's fun experience…
It is only a threat in concert with Background Player/hovering Survivors
Are you soloQ player only? Because this is very easy to get for SWF…
Only relevant in concert with corners.
Indoor maps work. Also stacking those Oak offerings work.
I just explained in the previous post that that is holding the game hostage and reportable/bannable
That is lot of work (for me), I will rather be against any feature that promotes those actions. It's highly unlikely they would be banned anyway.
Feature that would lead to banning people, is not good feature.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700216#Comment_3700216
Basekit UB buffs tunneling - Slugging would remain an alternative, but the Killer has a more normal range of expected stand up times from now. I can still get plenty done in 45s and make my way back to re-down/hook someone if needed. There is no reason to wait for a tunneling Killer in hooking them currently, so this isn't a meaningful point. Even with DS, I know I'm safe as long as I tunnel slugged them more than 5s after their basekit BT ran out, and return before they can pick themselves up. I can even wait 5-10 extra seconds if I wasn't sure on the timing, hovering over their corpse, and can just re-down them if they pick themselves up. If this makes Soul Guard meta, then good, we will see less Adrens and DHs, and it is easy to counter.
Nerfs to counterbalance basekit UB - You mention "There are things where only asnwer is slugging, if you nerf slugging, all those things should get nerfed.", but don't list a single one. We've already know we disagree, but this just sounds like the reasoning is 'cuz I said so'. Can you list any of this extensive list of actions that can't be dealt with within 45s (or my preferred 30 to 95%, 60 total to self-pickup)? The DS example was inaccurate, so I'm confused what other examples simply can't be solved by locking in the pressure with a hook.
10-15m Surrender resulting in hiding - So wait, people who we expect to lose are going to hide in order to surrender? Or is the claim they will hide to bore the opposition into surrendering. If it's the latter, we have rules against 'holding the game hostage' for that. If it's the former, wouldn't we want the timer shorter then? As far as tomes, a surrender can be tied to auto-completing the opponent's endgame tomes (as a kill/hook/hooks remaining or simply 100% completion).
As far as match duration, my normal (no basekit slowdown) matches only last about 10 minutes to reach endgame, and as long as 15 minutes if they had basekit slowdown. Any longer and the Killer is actively tormenting the players, or the Survivors are actively hiding to hold the game hostage. Looking at the forums, we have this thread where most people landed upon 15 minutes, so I'd be winning to entertain the notion that includes finishing gens and Survivors greeding for a 4-out, or finally having the last die/get hatch. This would be an individual quit, but are you going to quit if you have a reasonable chance of turning things around? I wouldn't quit as Killer if I had NWO/BW/NOED, and I wouldn't quit if I wanted a few more hook saves or heals for my tome (or to rescue my friend and die for them). Otherwise I would hard escape as Survivor, or realize I have no chance and clean up pallets/walls as Killer for extra BP. It saves people from the worst time of salt being rubbed in the wound lasting any longer than it needs to.
(Edit: forgot the hyperlink to the other thread for game length estimates)There is no reason to wait for a tunneling Killer in hooking them currently, so this isn't a meaningful point.
There is, because right now I am not forced to be tunneling killer in that situation. I am fully willing to let another survivor save them and recover, it gives me time and survivor gets chance to play. Win win
If I will have to return, I have no reason to wait and just tunnel them.
but don't list a single one
I have talked about this point in multiple comments already, do I really have repeat myself?
- if survivor gets downed under pallet (pointing) and I know there are background players, I am not picking them up.
- Survivors dying in corners → I am not picking them up
- survivor running into basement → probably Wicked → I am not picking them up
- survivors under pallet with Power struggle
- sabo squads
So wait, people who we expect to lose are going to hide in order to surrender?
No, they will hide until killer surrenders, which is luckily not an option now, so it is unlikely to happen.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699734#Comment_3699734
The problem with removing heal prevention is that both versions have someone griefing their team as the consequence. The benefit of a bleedout surrender grief is that the person quits and you get a bot. The benefit of a no heal grief is you can force someone to AFK in the match and not meaningfully participate… I don't think the no heal option is as beneficial.
Show perks on Escape menu - Agreed. And can we also show the Killer's perks and add-ons once dead in soloq. There is no reason to hide the perks against someone that isn't teamed with anyone else.
More good than harm - I'm not sure what annoying thing Survivors can do you are talking about here. If you were talking about a surrender, that still yields a bot. That's better than someone who Kobe's to end the match or AFKs or only opens chests while walking the rest of the match.
As far as tunneling, I disagree that it would increase by a lot. It would increase from 20% to 25% tops, or a multiplicative 25% increase. I would need to see that increase by a multiplicative 50 or 100% to cross the line into 'a lot' territory. Slugging pressure is unsecured in both versions, with or without basekit UB, but with basekit it makes the match more predictable. The Killer knows they will get up in a fixed timeframe, instead of 16s (Exponential) or 26s (Unbreakable) or 32s (Soul Guard) or never.
I also disagree that it would necessitate massive nerfs to implement, as it already has a minimal impact on the majority of matches except as a tool to grief.
Surrender unlocked at 10-15m being a bad idea - I don't see how this would be the case. Even if I have excellent pressure on the Survivors such that they only have 1 person working on gens, that still takes 90*5s, or 7.5 minutes, and 9 minutes if I use Pain Res. By 10 minutes, the Survivors should know if the match is a lost cause and not worth continuing, or the Killer is just getting bullied or held hostage by stealthing Survs or cheaters. I gave 15m as an alternative, because it is fair to say some Killers might have built in slowdown to take longer than this theoretical 9 minute maximum, or Survivors reasonably hiding against a Plague/Oni/Myers/etc. in power form.
Slugging pressure is unsecured in both versions, with or without basekit UB, but with basekit it makes the match more predictable.
It's simple, right now slugging is simply alternative to tunneling. Right now both gives pressure, slugging already gives less pressure than tunneling, but I just think it is better for survivors. That's why I do it.
If you nerf slugging with basekit unbreakable, I know that pressure from that action will be lower and I will be forced to return anyway. So there is not reason to wait with hooking.
Another issue is DS (if they actually buff it). Even when I know from their actions they have it, I don't have an option to slug them and go back later, becasuse DS timer is longer than your basekit unbreakable. So best play would be just pick them up, eat the DS and hard tunnel them.
At what world is slugging considered worse than tunneling? Slugging gives me an alternative what to do, if you nerf it and I get into position of tunneling, why the hell would I bother with slugging?
it would necessitate massive nerfs to implement
There are things where only asnwer is slugging, if you nerf slugging, all those things should get nerfed. With basekit unbreakable, it would be very easy to get killer into lose lose situation, which is not good.
I don't see how this would be the case.
because it promotes hiding and that is annoying
Also there are missions to get kills / escapes, escape through hatch etc. all those could be denied in many games. I don't consider 10/15 minutes to be that long.
I just think using only time limit is really lazy approach, which could backfire.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699038#Comment_3699038
Not having a lack of hook problem - The only time during the Boil Over buff it was a problem was when 4 people brought it and map offered RPD when we had a third story Library (without the guaranteed hooks). Even when that was at its peak, it wouldn't happen more than 1 in 10 of my Killer games. Same with Eyrie, once they added the fixed hooks (2 up top for Eyrie) the problem was deleted. On most maps these days you can get 2-3 hooks from a corner. That means you basically have a 50-50 of not having enough hooks if and only if they all comp corner on that same corner. Like I said, I plan out my final hook location, and take a further hook if it would prevent a gate/corner hook from being usable.
I don't know what 'Accurance' is.
Remove heal prevention - The Killer can still hook them though, so I don't understand the issue. Even if someone is healing the Survivor on the ground, that doesn't mean the person isn't getting BMed, and could open up more abuse for working with Killer. Plus I can't tell you how many times my foolish soloq teammates try to run across the map to heal me when I clearly Plot Twisted. This would deny that perk usage as well, so this change would be far more bad than good.
Affect normal gameplay - I still don't think it would impact the majority of games (>95%). It does far more good than harm, and we could even do something like Mangled/Broken/Exhausted (any individually, or multiple in combination) for X duration (or different durations if multiple) after a self-pickup. That way it both informs the Killer, and also has a cost to further incentivize Altruism. I hesitate to put Hindered on that list, but maybe 10% for 10s would be fine. (Still allowing for Fast Vaults, but enough to lose in most loops.)
I fully support both sides having a surrender option after say 10-15 minutes (WIP estimate, with arguable earlier conditions such as a Kill at 4+ gens for Survivors, or no gen progression for Killer after 3-5 minutes, to prevent cheaters holding people hostage from the onset).Remove heal prevention - The Killer can still hook them though
this has nothing to do with killer, that's simply so you wouldn't be able to "force" 1 minute slugging and ignore your teammates effort. For plot twist, it should be changes so your recovering (holding M1) has priority over others (kinda like holding shift now, but limited without Plot twist).
Plus I can't tell you how many times my foolish soloq teammates try to run across the map to heal me when I clearly Plot Twisted.
Let's be honest, showing your teammates perks should be main priority for DBD in my opinion. I don't think any other thing would help soloQ more right now.
You don't even need to show it in lobby. You can already see your perks when you press ESC, which I don't really know why, but just replace it with 3 builds (your teammates). So at start of the game, I can quickly check it. This wouldn't allow lobby dodging, but still help a lot.
It does far more good than harm
Not really. It would simply replace one annoying thing killer can do with annoying thing survivors can do. How is that better?
Also about why it would increase tunneling a lot, which I don't think is good thing.
Right now, if I get into tunneling situation made by survivors (body blocking, healing under hook, rescuer hiding etc.) I always go for down, but I prefer slugging over hooking again, so that survivor has chance to play more.
Do you think anyone is going to care, when that survivor has unbreakable? Your expectation is killer will go back and hook, but I wouldn't want to hook that survivor. If I am forced to hook, why wouldn't I do it asap and just "tunnel" him.
This feature would do a lot of harm, you just don't see it.Well, I don't see almost any good it would do…. Everything good it could make, can be achieved with give up feature I mentioned. That can create a lot of good for players with little to no harm.
Preventing basekit unbreakable from abusing would need tons of nerfs. which I don't think players want and I bet we would see tons of crying for tunneling. Even more than now, which is hard to do.
having a surrender option after say 10-15 minutes
No, that's terrible idea.
There should be strict definitions of when you can use it. Just time can basically deny playing for other side, which is not good. There should be time for people to finish achievements / challenges in any game.Definitions should be combination of exact situation and time. So 1 minute slugging for example. Both sides have option to prevent it.
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He would be definetly more interesting to play at least.
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CoH is still a good perk, but it is SWF only perk.
You will find little to no use for this as soloQ, but that doesn't mean perk is bad.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698410#Comment_3698410
P1 (Slugging and Altruism) - As far as slugs not needing help specifically, that's true, but it is more time efficient to provide assistance. Even if we included movement, the floored Survivor gains ~1/3rd recovery progress compared to healing, so it only reduces altruism's effectiveness by 2/3*travel time. Even if the Survivor ran 10s, the slug recovered 10/45s, or 2/9ths, and then the ally picks them up in 12.44s (16*7/9 remaining), for a net 22.44s. If the Killer is still busy with the other Survivor they decided to chase instead, then they can heal to full on the spot as well, and spread or duo a gen as needed (heal or no).
Saying it would increase gen rushing (or as I prefer to say GensB4Frenz, or delaying altruism), is a fair complaint. However I think as long as we make altruism more efficient (than self-pickups), and make healing the best option, then it shouldn't be an issue. There is a possible issue to address with making 'injured' more costly, but I wouldn't want anything like gen times to be affected. Probably something like Exhaustion doesn't recover while injured, alongside basekit Self-Care at 25% (64s heal), and make the perk buffed up to 45% (just enough to make altruistic healing still better). All that said, that is a massive sidetrack into off topic territory. If you want to talk about this specifically, just make another thread about making injuries more harmful and feel free to ping me.P2 - Otz streaks specifically, I thought was 2 in 50, or 4 tops (for Unknown), but to be fair I don't fully recall. If you had a specific consecutive string of games (eg. 16-25 on X Killer) then fair enough.
How often are bleedouts? - In my games (past midnight), greater than 1 in 10. I used to work nights, so late night was the only time I had to play on my days off. Unfortunately the greatest swath of degenerates and lowlives play at that timeslot, and purposely make the Survivor experience as miserable as possible. Every game is a bleedout Killer, or a tunnel at 5 gens Killer against clear soloq teams, or a VPN Killer from 8+ timezones away, or a comp pretender. Seeing the worst people the game has to offer makes the flaws of the game quite apparent. I don't have as much to complain about on Killer end because most of those are skill issues. For Killer though I hate map offerings, Borgo scratchmarks/blood (and Ormond too, but that seems to be a 'just me' problem), people playing without altruism, and more, but I never lack agency as Killer.
Impossible to hook situations - I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but I (nearly) never have this problem as Killer. I view the final hook stage and its hook destruction as a macro resource though, so I plan out not final hooking near gates or corners. This basically means it only happens when multiple members of a Survivor team comp corner on the exact same corner on death hook. It happens often enough on separate corners, but nearly never on the same one.
Basekit UB affecting normal gameplay - I mean it would marginally in edge cases, sure, but I don't think it would affect more than 2% of matches total in changing the result. That's what I meant if I wasn't clear. It would have the largest impact of bringing 60% Killer wins down to 58% Killer wins (if we blindly assume kill rate equals winrate). The remaining 58% of wins would remain wins, and the remaining 40% losses aren't becoming a new 'super loss' where the Killer player starts getting punched in the face by their monitor.Surrender feature instead - I would want both personally. Allow Survivor and Killer to surrender after X happens without a DC penalty, but also have a basekit UB. I don't see why we would need to remove Shift preventing healing though. If the Killer hooked, the Surv could have gave up on hook by Kobe-ing regardless, so I think reaching a straight minute of bleedout would still be fine enough if you can see the Killer never plans on killing you outside of bleedouts.
I (nearly) never have this problem as Killer
Never? Really? Have you not played after Boil Over buff?
Or you mean recently?
It's not hard to create as SWF on some maps. I had it happen on The Game few times. Really annoying, I lost most of those games, because survivors noticed and always run into that corner. Really annoying.
I bet accurance would increase, if Unbreakable was basekit, simply because it nerfs only counterplay. There would be nothing killer can do about it, which doesn't sound good to me.I don't see why we would need to remove Shift preventing healing though.
If you had feature to give up after X amount of time, then holding shift would make it impossible for other survivors to prevent it.
I don't think it would affect more than 2% of matches total in changing the result
That doesn't mean not affecting the gameplay. If feature changes whole meta and playstyles, then it affects normal gameplay. Basekit unbreakable would make this 100%. I think you underestimate how much slugging would decrease on value, but mostly it would make survivors to force those situations.
It wouldn't be hard to create lose lose situations for the killer.So unless you want to nerf / remove all possible situations survivors are able to create, where this could be abused, there is no way I would ever want to see this in DBD.
Give up feature would be way better for both sides, without actually affecting gameplay for anyone.