Volcz
Volcz
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The perk is fine. Just like Sole Survivor + Wake Up is fine.
The problem is people's playstyles.
I used to run Sole Survivor + Wake Up. I still did gens, still went for saves, still took protection hits or bodyblocked, etc. I still tried to be a good teammate. The perks were brought for a situation that kept happening which was end-game slugging for the 4k, everyone gives up early, or I legit just end up being the last one alive. Its not automatically = greed/selfish.
This thread isn't really about the perks themselves, or how strong/weak they are.
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Not really fair to complain about killer meta when survivors do the exact same thing.
& no its not impossible to do gens against that build.
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The hitbox validation definitely needs some work. I swear he's got a longsword & not a knife, when he uses his power. Stabs at air but you still get injured. Overall I don't find him as played as Wesker was when he came out and that was much worse. You can also do some nice outplaying with his power similar to Wesker & Demo.
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Usually, no. I die & just move on.
The rare times I do spectate, its because I want to watch someone or more of my teammates die, because of how they played. Like there's 1 gen left, hovering around 70-80% and you're busy opening up a chest in the basement & not helping your team.
Or when you get into a chase w/ the killer after your teammates have snowballed the match for the killer, it lasts 2-3 minutes and your teammates only start doing a gen after you go down.
The amount of players that have absolutely 0 situational awareness astounds me in this game. And ofc, they only get on the gens AFTER the match has gone to hell and everyone's starting to die.
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Hell yea. Thanks for the code.
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A lot of people seem to be confused about the report system.
The way it works - it logs and tracks the lobby pre-match chat & end-game chat. Thats it. Whatever happens DURING the match is not tracked or recorded. Catching someone doing something against the rules is 99.9% on the player. Their report system sucks. It has been like this for years.
Reporting someone in this game does nothing if you don't have video proof. And unless you're a streamer or someone w/ a 3rd party program that captures a few seconds of gameplay, reporting someone for genuinely breaking the rules does nothing.
They won't fix it.
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Yea I started loading map offerings after the 2nd Lab in a row.
Already tired of it.
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Depends on the situation.
There are a lot of factors - its not as simple as just saying I do this or I do that, because it changes based on the match.
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tldr 'devs, I want to be able to camp before end-game. how dare you'
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Yea..I gotta say, you're close to the mark but Eruption/Brine/Overcharge was the easiest it had ever been.
Don't get me wrong, its still very easy to win as killer.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515802#Comment_3515802
Well look at you, Mr. My internet is so consistent. It isn't just for the sake of being angry. Some of us genuinely have bad connections where we live. That mean we're just supposed to ######### off?
If you have a bad connection, yes. You're playing a Multiplayer game with a bad ping/connection and YOU'RE the ONE to ask this question?
Yeah how dare people want teammates with stable internet and not dial-up/wifi connections. The nerve.
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Its because thats just the DbD community, particularly this forum and reddit. They blame whatever they deem to be the fault for them losing a game, even when they've made plenty of mistakes and are the real reason. A lot of people just have self inflated egos. If you end up in a chase too long with them, they blame MfT. If you do gens too quickly for them to keep up, they blame PT, SO and sometimes even quit. If you vault a window and they don't hit you as your vaulting, they blame Resilience and get mad that the vault got buffed/fixed.
Whatever you do, the reason a match goes horribly for them is always on your shoulders. Never on them. There's no accountability or self reflection, no going back to watch a replay of the match they just deemed 'unfair'. Just point fingers at the survivors. Its easier and the lazier approach so I do get it.
They also don't have anything to say about plenty of killers who 3/4k 90% if not more of their matches and even stream it while playing WEAKER killers like they love to complain about. I remember some guy literally made a thread about 1 of the best Doc mains in the world, said he was having trouble even downing people with MfT...well the streamer he was talking about, showed up in the thread and basically called him out on his lies, saying he's been winning almost all his matches.
I know one specific killer main who hasn't lost in literal months, despite playing on weaker killers. Not Blight, Wesker, Spirit or even Nurse.
People just want to cry loud and long b/c they want the same thing that happened to DH, to happen to anything strong a survivor uses.
Most of them don't even try to hide it, I've seen so many 'just kill the perk already, gut it into the ground' replies about MfT personally. Its hard to take the complaints seriously when its a clear pattern that people just want things that present obstacles/problems for them, to be nerfed to oblivion as a solution.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515966#Comment_3515966
What if the last survivor finds the hatch tho? Do they personally get a W or do they have to stay tied to the whole team? Personally as a solo queue player a majority of the time I think if I did the best overall and got hatch then that's a bit of a win for me since I technically would have earned it at that point
I'm strictly solo que too so I know what you mean but - the hatch is basically a last resort escape to an otherwise lost match. Even if the killer doesn't let you get it and you find it by your own luck, is that really a W? I mean sure, you escape..but its still a pity escape. Maybe the killer didn't give it to you, but the game did. I get the personal feeling of getting out via hatch, especially when you did so much for your team, but in the grand scheme - your team died. If that hatch didn't exist, you'd be dead too.
So yea in 1 way its a personal W but its a very very cheap W IMO, almost not even worth bringing up because I didn't earn it. My whole team died. Maybe I didn't take chase or body block the killer enough. Maybe my teammates just didn't do gens or went down in 10 second chases. Whatever the reason, they are dead. I/you would be too if not for that cheap hatch escape. In summary, I do see hatch as an L. You really shouldn't be getting that escape but you are cause the game felt bad and wanted to give the survivors another way of getting out when their team got decimated.
Its like rewarding bad players with more rewards. I'm not saying you specifically, but if you get to the point where its a 1v1, I mean you have already lost. The escape through the hatch doesn't really hold much weight at that point since without it, you'd be dead too. And if your team plays badly, it makes logical sense that your team loses. A hatch doesn't really change that in my eyes.
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If I die so my 3 other teammates can get out, its a W for the team.
If 2 people die and 2 people escape, its a tie. No one loses or wins.
If all 4 or 3 survivors die, its an L for them and a W for the killer.
Pity/mercy hatch - L for the survivor.
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Depends on what you want to achieve honestly. IDK what type of playstyle you like. Do you want to bring your team or yourself information? Do you want to be the person on your team who has perks to help them in chase and help people have time to do gens?
The one I run is MfT, Resilience, Lithe, WoO which is mostly for my chases and not running into a dead zone ever.
If you want a general build that does a little of everything, you can try:
Kindred, WoO, We'll Make It (if you want to be the team medic, otherwise swap it out with something like Adrenaline), and preferably something to help you in chase, either an exhaustion like SB or Lithe or even MfT.
There are many builds for solo que, thankfully.
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Appreciate the post by Mandy but there comes a time when you have no valid reasonable explanation and everyone knows it.
You've had 3+ years to do something, anything about Blight and you still haven't.
BHVR claims to value feedback but IDK how you ignore 3+ years of people trying to bring attention to the add-ons unless you intentionally decide to disregard everyone bringing Blight up.
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The only thing I'd like changed is Endurance removed. If you want to go a step further, stop the haste stack w/ Hope.
Besides that, no.
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Hopefully not. If people are complaining about the tail, it means they just aren't very smart, good or both.
- Teammates should be deploying turrets in important yet spread out tiles.
- Person in chase should be chaining turret-to-turret to essentially keep Xeno burned and unable to get his tail attack.
- Pre-dropping pallets is useful when Xeno is in 4legged attack mode. In particular tiles like a jungle gym, you can get out of the way before he tries to tail attack you over the pallet and gain even more distance or force them to break it.
- His tail attack can hit over pallets or windows and crouch tech doesn't work on him like it does Nemesis. Besides this drawback, which is totally fair, survivors have many ways to counter or waste the Xeno's time.
I hope if anything, Xeno is kept the same or buffed. He should not be nerfed. Bad survivors deserve to go down, just like a team that doesn't use a lot of turrets or has multiple people who aren't good in chase and last seconds.
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Otz tech is totally fine, nothing wrong with it.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504754#Comment_3504754
That doesn't make those players good though. Genuinely good teams are rare and genuinely good standalone survivors are incredibly rare.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504977#Comment_3504977
This concept is mistaken unless your definition of solo queue is anything less than a 3-man swf. You are far more likely to run into atleast a duo queue than a true 4 man solo queue. I have no other comment on anything else you said but 4 man solo queue is less likely than not.
I agree, duo is far more likely than a 4 man solo. But I do know BHVR has also said that solo que is the majority of the playerbase before, so I always just took that as 4 strangers in a match together.
Even with the likelihood of duos though, you still have to account for 2 other teammates you have no knowledge of how they play, what their experience is, etc.
Public matches are just a giant gamble when it comes to quality of teammates, honestly.
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Do you value winning over the survivor's fun?
If so, you know what to do.
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OG iron Will was fine, people just complained about it similar to a lot of other perks they deem OP. Anything that gives them trouble ofc. I've never once had a problem with IW, it brought the value it was supposed to.
Now, the condition and 75% makes almost no one bring it that is actually serious. If you got a decent pair of headphones, that 75% aint anything.
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Slightly true. Its survivor sided for the most part when it comes to the competitive scene, ie teams of people in comms and playing for efficiency/value, ignoring mistakes.
But in regards to PUGs, public matches that brings together all sorts of players -
- trolls/people who just want to mess around
- serious gamers who want to win
- noobs/new to the game/bad in chase
- people who D/C or kill themselves for the slightest inconvenience
- and more
No, the public/casual scene is killer sided.
This game is not competitive, it will never be competitive and since solo que is the majority, you'll find yourself coming across a lot of players who have clearly different agendas/mindsets from you.
There are players who play killers beside the ones you mentioned, that haven't lost in MONTHS.
If you are having a problem in public matches as a killer, its entirely your fault. Too many people have self inflated egos, egos they really shouldn't have because they aren't that good.
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Pretty strong compared to before. Check this out if you haven't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ydLZ0_U9s -
Because the perk isn't that strong. People just love to exaggerate anything and everything that the opposing side has over them in the hopes they won't have to deal with it. Its a combination of self inflated ego, copium and denial.
Essentially a 'lets scream super loud about this new thing now and hope BHVR does something'.
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I personally don't care too much but I'd rather they lower the penalties of D/Cs to a hard cap so people aren't locked out for an entire night from playing the game. I do want some penalty for leaving though. Seen numerous times how bad its gotten when the D/C penalty was turned off so I'd def steer away from that.
Always been a supporter of letting people leave a match if they aren't having fun. No one should be forced to stick around for others.
But it has to be reasonable.
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I play a decent variety - Wesker, Blight, Wraith & Bubba being my favorites. I also really enjoy playing SM Myers or Tombstone.
I'm thinkin of trying more Oni since I love his lore and kit overall, I just know he isn't the easiest. I've only played him once and I did 3k in that match but I never stuck on him for some reason.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481330#Comment_3481330
Doc goes 100% speed when shocking meaning sur9vors are faster than him making 5 or 6 more loops on pallets
The never gonna catch them part is on deathslinger if the if you miss them not to mention it's a bit easier to keep out of los
Knight just shows how little you know guards move at 105 for 12s and normally you can out run them without mft the issue is the amount of distance you lose setting them in place
And Clown slows survivors by 15% and for 2s after you leave the gas on windows he can play normally he can't on pallets that 15% becomes 12% wich means you get to your location roughly. 3s quicker and .3s is the different between a hit or not for clown
Where did I mention swf
Items can shave 20s of gens or double chase time
Did you miss the part where I showed my time played been playing since pig cane out and you can see my stats alot of that time was on killer so I'd say I'm pretty capable killer main
If you're able to pump out an additional 5-6 loops on a weak/average tile against Doc, that Doc isn't very good. I'm not talking about jungle gyms, shack pallet, or generally any god pallet where killer is forced to break it or lose time in chase.
If Deathslinger misses his shot, he should be penalized for it? MfT is not going to change that punishment. You're acting like MfT makes a drastic difference here. When DS ever missed, it was supposed to be punishing. The 3% isn't 'impossible' to catch them with, especially if you actually use your power (which is the whole point of playing someone like DS or Huntress) and don't miss your shots.
How so? Because I don't agree that you should be hit by a guard? By your own point, if you can 'normally outrun them w/o mft' then why is MfT suddenly the issue? Because its happening a lot less? Thats the logic? The only people that ever get hit by guards are bad survivors or simply survivors who made a mistake (which happens). The whole point is to zone and push them away from an area you want to keep secured or make harder for them to do their objective, whether hooks or gens. MfT doesn't change that.
Clown is essentially anti-loop so if you're telling me you struggle to down or catch people with Clown who are running MfT, again, I'm not looking at the survivors - just you.
Also not every survivor is some comp player. On average, most people are bound to make mistakes or lose a mind-game on an average/weak tile here or there, so acting like every survivor you come across is some amazing player whose running MfT and theyre the reason you lose a chase or a match is just copium to the extreme.
@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481330#Comment_3481330
if you struggle to catch or down anyone with doc says more about you
you do realize that doc loses distance with his shocks against an mft Survivor like you're better off just not using your power cuz you'll almost never catch up
god forbid Survivors can outrun the knight's guards
bro they already can it's very rare for a guard to catch up to you on their own and with this perk now it's impossible. it's funny how biased and blind you are to killer mecanics that get hurt by this perk
I'm not blind or biased. I used to play killer a lot and now its more 60/40. I just don't agree with you at all.
The killer mains who w/ video proof, also don't agree with you. Is it an annoying perk sometimes that helps the survivor get to a loop or extend a chase? Yea! Thats what its supposed to do. And only good/decent survivors are going to get actual good value from it. Bad survivors are still going to run to deadzones, lose mindgames more often than not, not know which tiles to chain together, etc.
Its funny thats your goto as soon as I come in here and voice my disagreement when people are holding 90% win rates in pugs, if not higher.
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This is full on copium and exaggeration.
'never going to catch them' ..have you by chance, ever thought maybe you just aren't as good as you think you are? Wild concept, I know!
Actual good killer mains have not been struggling at all.
If you struggle to catch or down anyone with Clown, says more about you.
If you struggle to catch or down anyone with Doc, says more about you.
God forbid survivors can actually outrun the Knight's guards, huh. We should just add a 'freeze survivor' ability in place and force them to take a hit.
People are playing Wesker simply because hes 1) a strong killer and 2) he's fun to play/get better with.
So many people seem to be under the impression that its a perk, item, SWF navy seal squad as to why they lost. No you lost, 99% of the time because of how you played. Go watch any capable killer main whose been playing for years. They still win 90% or more of their matches and thats on a variety of killers all ranging from D-A.
I've realized a lot of people that play DbD do not take accountability at all for their mistakes or way they play. They can be the absolute reason for losing a match but they will never entertain that possibility or believe it.
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Dull Merchant easily for me. Just an absolute snoozefest everytime & it isn't even close.
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I think BL1is fine, BL2 & 3 are the problems that give bad players a crutch for their mistakes. I don't think this is a hot take honestly.
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Hmm most satisfying.
Ran a TTV playing Huntress who decided to tunnel right at the start. She picked me but oh, did she pick wrong.
Ran her for 4 gens, was about to get caught at the boat/ship but ran into 2 of my teammates who were working on the final gen there. They scattered from the gen and I decided to use their scratch marks against the Huntress since I had line of sight and decent distance on her. It worked and she confused my scratch marks for theirs, I was able to get away but I didn't jump on a gen because I realized they were letting all my other teammates go, she just wanted me. She didn't take any chase with them and proceeded to look for me all over the map, so it was a game of cat and mouse at that point.
They completed the final gen, powered the gates for me & 1 of my teammates found me to heal. I ran right up to the Huntress, she swung at me, got the speed burst and I was outta there. 😎
Found out it was a TTV after, so I checked their stream out to see their PoV and just say GG.
Well it made it even more satisfying when I saw that they were in complete meltdown mode and whining about everything that went wrong, calling me names, blaming my perks, etc. It was great. Let the tears flow.
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Mine's pretty similar but more focused on chase since thats what I love about survivor and ultimately what I'm good at.
Resilience, MfT, Lithe and WoO. Being able to avoid dead zones or tiles that have no safety is huge and can be the difference between going down and prolonging the chase.
Deja very good though, agreed
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This doesn't show much besides the end-result and what items/perks they brought. There is no context to the match. I never understand people who make these threads because a scoreboard does not tell the full picture. I don't see what the survivors did vs what you did, your decisions, your pathing, etc. This is very barebones.
Very well could have been your fault but with no video, who knows.
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Lmao I'm sure you won't be the last so there's that haha
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His add-ons are the problem (I think most people agree) . Base kit Blight is great, being able to be a bouncing pinball is hella fun and there's still a lot of outplay potential. Hope they address him the right way.
But yea, pretty shocking he's escaped any nerfs up to this point (probably will be another few months minimum)
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Maybe not the meta some were thinking, but by god they are the best damn perks we've seen for a while!
Just saw Scott Jund try out the "Matador tech" with them. Absolute brilliance!
Lol thats so good.
All 3 of his perks seem like a lot of fun. Going to try him out tonight.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472365#Comment_3472365
You're being dishonest tbh, I don't even know the guy and most of the time he asks for footage to give critique.
Shockingly everyone that says they're losing due to one perk never posts any video proof and just whines. Weird how that works.
When I play Killer I win most of my games, when I watch high mmr killers play any killer, they win most of their games. So unless there's some secret mmr that somehow is flying under the radar for the majority of killer players, I'd say as of right now you can open up dbd on any given day and win most of your games as killer. No matter your loadout or choice of character.
This lobby guy is the same one who in another thread, tried to make up things about a certain streamer I mentioned and when called out for lying and making things up, to show evidence or clips, etc - dude disappeared into the void. If people can't disagree in a civil manner with you and they get mad, start getting personal or blatantly lie, it says all you need to know honestly and its best to just avoid them in discussion.
This was a fun thread to read though, lol.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469901#Comment_3469901
Are you suggesting that we should watch the streamer that DCs whenever he faces a good team to learn how to get better at the game? I'll do you one better, don't even waste your time if you see a multi-thousand hour SWF because you know they're all packing MFT + Hope + Resilience + Toolbox. Just dodge lol
Provide some clips if all he does is D/C whenever he faces a good team. I'll eat my words. I know you won't provide those though cause thats not true and you're making it up.
I watch him regularly besides Otz and a few others (cause he's funny and good entertainment) and I can't remember a time I've seen him D/C, particularly on killer which is his main role. He strives for sweaty games, he's said it multiple times if there was a leaderboard for top players, he'd be the #1 Wraith, etc. This is the same dude who didn't mind waiting out hackers who took his match hostage for 2hrs/1hr. Yea dodging isn't something he does. He plays it out and usually wins. To the point when he does lose, chat makes fun of him big time.
Its extremely rare for him to lose when he's actually trying. I don't want this to be a focus on Hexy, I'm just saying his playstyle is effectively hit and run on pretty much every killer he plays b/c he likes that playstyle and pumps out more pressure usually.
I do agree with you though, MfT + Hope + Resi + Toolbox is incredibly demoralizing.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469840#Comment_3469840
First I don't need you to tell me to go watch ppl thank you very much. I'm a decent killer main and I don't really need your advice. If did I would ask for it thank you. I watch Otz on a daily basis and have learned from him plenty. I'm also not saying that MfT makes everyone a god looper but what I am saying it makes decent loopers even better and makes those games feel so much worst than before. Especially when its 4 decent survivors running the perk in the same lobby. I tell you right now I'm happy where I am skill-wise as the killer and Im, not someone who likes sweating in games. I play this game for fun, not for a job.
As for lower-tier killer buffs, wanting is fine but realize the reality of the situation dbd and its devs are in. Just saying "Hey buff lower-tier killers" isnt going to make this team do it. They have shown no interest in doing so and they have pretty much made that clear when they say that they are happy where Trapper is and where Myers is. They think these killers are fine and don't need any changes. No amount of pledging isn't going to change their mindsets on these killers. Even if they did start buffing low-tier killers their time restraints really don't allow for it either. It takes them years to do any type of rework(again look at the promised Twins rework). The best you can expect is base kit changes but those types of changes won't do anything because those also buff A and S tier killers. Low-tier killer buffs can only happen if the devs work on each of the killers separately which will take a lot of time and resources, time and resources that the devs rather spend on making new killers since that's where the money is. Buff Trapper from a business pov does nothing for the game since he is a base game killer for example.
At the end of the day, I'm just being realistic and recognizing what this dev team is willing and not willing to do. Changing a perk is much easier and time effective than changing maps, rebalancing killers and etc. You can continue to live in your fantasy world of dbd where the devs will keep this perk where it is forever and just buff low-tier killers but here, in reality, I know what's going to happen, MfT will be nerfed at some point and low-tier killers will never be buff to the point where they are at Wesker or blight levels. When MfT will be nerf/change I have no clue, it could be in the next mid-chapter or it could be later this year when they do a meta shack-up patch but there is no doubt in my mind that MfT will not be touched at some point.
Alright first off, you asked a question - I answered it. Respectfully. I don't need your passive aggressiveness you bring into every thread when someone disagrees with you or points out something to you. If you can't handle a back and forth debate and keep an open mind, whats the point of participating in them? The reason I said go watch someone like Hexy is because he literally focuses on this playstyle. All I was doing was answering the question, you don't gotta get snippy with me b/c of the answer I gave that you didn't like. It wasn't a jab at you.
Secondly, if you're even asking me about how to effectively hit and run, doesn't that imply you don't know everything and can still learn things? If you're fine where you are skill-wise, why are you asking me this question? Why do you want me to answer that? Good killer mains aren't going to be asking that question b/c they already know.
Third, you literally said " if 3 or 4 of the survivors are running this perk that means every single chase is going to be prolonged". No its not. Now you're re-wording what you said by saying it makes decent loopers even better, which IDEK why you're stating, cause I've said that too numerous times.
'Wanting is fine but realize the reality'. I never said this is what they're going to do, lol. I said this is what I want them to do/should do.
I also never said MfT will never be touched, I said I don't want it gutted with Hope because the issue is haste stacking, not the perk itself on its own. Now if were being honest, yea there's a good chance it does get gutted. If DH was able to be nerfed 7+ years later, MfT can be too. But that doesn't mean its the healthiest option or best route to go.
Cheers.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469741#Comment_3469741
Man, it's almost like you completely overlooked the part when I said when it's one or two MfTs it's kinda fine. Yeah if a chase goes on for too long I usually switch to someone else but if 3 or 4 of the survivors are running this perk that means every single chase is going to be prolonged. Do I keep switching? If don't commit to someone at some point I'm going to lose anyway since gens is still being done in the background. Don't say create dead zones in a map either bc most maps in dbd are filled with plenty of pallets and creating dead zones takes a lot of time in those maps. Time most killers don't have.
I say this because it's not just MfT, it's the maps, it's the low-tier killer who is hurt the most by MfT and it's the fact that survivors can bring multiple of the same perk. If dbd had more balance maps and better map design then I won't care as much about MfT but again that's not the dbd we have now or ever will have since even the attempts to rebalance a map are usually bad. The same goes for the low-tier killers if they were buffed so MfT won't hurt them as much then I won't care that much about it but the devs are never going to take the time to buff those killers. We talking about a dev team that thinks Trapper is fine, they think Myers is fine and the promised Twin rework is taking more than a year to do. If you think they are going to look at the low-tier killers and take the time to buff them when they could just easily change one perk then you my sir and others are living in a fantasy world.
Either way sooner or later MfT will be nerfed. It is either now/soon or when its use rate is so high that they will want to change up the "meta" again. So all this arguing at this point is useless imo. I have stated my opinion on this matter and I'm moving on with my life.
Bringing MfT does not make you good. Its not an automatic win. Thats my point. Acting like because someone has it, makes them a pro looper all of a sudden, is just disingenuous to this convo because its not true. If you are seriously struggling with this, I'd implore you to visit some good killer main's channels and watching them for a bit because you'll learn a lot and see why what you're saying is wrong. I'm not going to convince you are wrong but gameplay will. If you really want to know how to do the whole hit and run effectively, watch Hexy. He's very very good at it (although he loves to troll and mess around lol) and he does it with a variety of killers, not just Wraith. And yes, deadzones are a valid point to bring up because they do happen and good killers do force out strong tiles or god pallets, the earlier the better. For instance, Hexy does this and its what a lot of times, secures him the win. He does an excellent job of creating dead zones.
Thats why I want low tier killers buffed. I think most people want low tier killers buffed, right? I don't want Trapper to stay at the bottom. I don't want Hillbilly (who is also one of the most fun killers to go against) to stay the same while Blight, Nurse, Wesker, Spirit, etc stay at the tip top for years. At least we can agree on that.
@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469741#Comment_3469741
Haste should all be going to the same spot for the coding. So they would have to rework the entire thing to sperate haste off hook and perk haste. On top of that they would have to add to all the descriptions of haste perks that they don't stack with other haste perks which they never go into that direction. I don't see them doing that when the problem really stems from one perk.
I would say there shouldn't be a multiplier for chase and flat extenders are better. SB will add 10 seconds to chase and better players can 99 the perk and do plays you would never be able to do without it. I find that healthier than a perk that increases your chase times by 20%.
DH was an actual problem vs good killers though. The problem is it depended on what killer you played on how DH was. For a killer like Demo 6.1 DH was literally better than 6.0. The patch they went and "nerfed" the perk actually ended up buffing it.
Why would I play a killer like Demo when I can play Myers that is the same power level and not even close to the same difficultly to play at the max potential? How is then Myers not a massive problem when he is very easy to play and is B tier? Sure at higher levels of play it isn't going to be broken but the lower you get the stronger he becomes. Those 2 things are why weaker killer honestly are fine in where they are at. I have seen players bring up how low tier killers are only fine because of Save and I think that is perfectly fine since it adds more difficulty to those killers which allows better players to get more value out of those killers' kits without it affecting lower levels.
If they buffed Trapper to Weskers level and made him still that simple to play then It would be Dead by Trapper. We saw the same thing with Omega blink Nurse where she was very easy to play for the power level and everyone spammed her. Players are very happy with playing things they don't like for free wins and we even saw this with the 3 gen meta. How could anyone actually like to play that way outside the fact that it was broken, so hey why not take a free win.
You're right, it would likely be more difficult I agree. But its still the better option over gutting 2 perks, especially one that hasn't even been in the live release of the game for even a month. You gut that perk, no one runs it. And then what was the point of even unlocking it in the first place, if everytime something strong comes out (that is ONLY deemed truly busted OP with Hope) we just nerf it to the ground w/o looking at any other avenues that would probably be a lot healthier of a change. If haste stacking is the problem, thats what should be addressed.
This isn't like Eruption that had literally no counterplay in solo que (the majority) and stayed in the live version of the game for months while every killer ran it and told themselves they didn't just win because Eruption carry. There is counterplay, they aren't impossible to catch. There are dead zones, there are mind games they can still lose.
DH was not a problem against good killer mains is what I was saying though. The forums and Reddit screamed the loudest because lesser skilled players ran there/here to voice their complaints. Good killer mains did not do that because they had no reason to. If you're able to hold a 90%+ win rate playing a variety of killers that aren't S tier and most aren't even A, I''d have the opinion that the killer player is very experienced, has likely been playing for some time, and is both map and situationally aware, tracks perk use, whose been on hook, whose on death hook, etc. Just a generally skilled player and easily well above the average.
You wouldn't play Demo, I wouldn't play Demo. People don't play things just because they're difficult. Its a factor of fun/playstyle/power 99% of the time. Unless you're just wanting to challenge yourself for some specific reason? But generally that isn't the case. If that were the case, we'd be seeing a lot more Hillbillys. But people know he isn't strong because of where he sits right now, especially when you can play other killers that do the same thing if not better and you won't be frustrated as hell playing them.
I'm saying if they brought Trapper to Wesker's level (fun, playstyle, strength being the main focus), it'd incentivize people to play Trapper. Because there would actually be a reason to play him. It wouldn't be Dead by Trapper, people would still play a lot of other killers that they love/are experienced with. The thing thats hard to measure, is that fun is subjective to each person. What you find fun someone could find boring and vice versa. I'd bet a lot of people enjoyed Omega Blink Nurse while also knowing it was crazy strong. If it was weak, they wouldn't have spammed it. Thats the same case with Hillbilly. He was popular before the gutting b/c he was strong, took skill, and was fun for both survivors and the killer player. Now he lacks strength, his powers been gutted and he's barely ever seen because people who play killer want to stand a chance, not be some toy the survivors play with and mock.
Anyways this is just my opinion & take on this and others. I don't want to veer off into several more topics like I've already done lol, so this is my last reply. Nice talking with all of you! We'll see what happens.
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Well thats mainly because you're on a team of 4 and you can't do gens simultaneously while also in chase.
To make a comeback as survivor, it is harder I agree but not impossible.
You need 1 person ideally who is good/decent in chase to take the killer's attention while others pump gens. They need to make up some of that lost time from all those other chases that lasted only a few seconds. Its definitely possible, but theres a lot of...dependency, not just on your teammates to do objectives while you distract the killer but also map RNG, tiles, which pallets still havent been used, etc.
However this all goes to crap if the killer knows what you're doing and isn't going to be baited by you, lol.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469547#Comment_3469547
So tho I do agree MfT doesn't give a individual a undeserved win but here the thing...MfT makes chases last longer (just like DH did) and longer chases mean more gens being done in the background and that means the survivors who not being chased has a higher chance of escaping. It may not give the one person who being chased a undeserved win (probably why data is telling the devs it's fine) but it does help the other survivors win easier.
Here my thing about MfT and DH before it's latest nerf. One or two of them in a lobby was never a big deal to me. I was more than happy with a loddy when only one or two survivors was running DH and same goes for MfT. The problems start when you have more then half of the survivors running it. That means 3 or every chase you have will be longer and that also means gens can be done faster. The one thing ppl always seem to forget when it comes to survivor perks is that it's hardly ever one or two DHs (per previous nerf) or MfT. I seen a lot of lobbies with 3 or 4 MfTs and I can say those are the matches I had the least amount of fun on killer in a while. The matches with one or two wasn't that bad but those 3 to 4 man MfT matches was nightmare and it happened multiple times for a night. Those matches also had hope and when I saw that I just gave up in the end game and let the ppl escape bc I didn't even want to bother chasing 3 or 4 hope+MfT survivors.
MfT isn't OP by itself. Its strong, sure. But that's the whole point. And whats with this whole 'i dont want longer chases so nerf it' approach. If you're committing to a long chase with someone, isn't that entirely on you? The reward for running that perk is literally to prolong chases, which is what it does IF you are any good. It isn't going to save you like MfT+ Hope in end-game. It isn't going to do anything if you run into a dead zone or if you lose a mind-game at a weak pallet tile.
Why is it the person's fault who takes the killer's time away from his team? Why is there no responsibility on the killer? No one forces you to commit to a long chase, hell there are plenty of killers that can play the hit and run style effectively so why is it the fault of the person running MfT who actually makes use out of it and not on the killer who ignored 3 others just sitting on gens w/o any pressure?
So because a match is harder and you're less likely to get the result you want (3/4k), MfT has to be the issue? I also don't see 3/4 MfTs that frequently and even if multiple people are running it, it doesn't mean they're good. I've seen so many people running MfT go down fast, lol. Its just a perk, it doesn't just make you a pro looper over night.
Yes Hope + MfT is bad. I think most if not all of us can agree there at least. But thats entirely because of haste stacking.
@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469372#Comment_3469372
Babysitting gives haste off unhook and that wouldn't work if they made haste work like endurance. They won't just made perks not stack when it comes to haste I don't think. That sounds like a nightmare to do and it is something I can't see them investing time into when the problem is just MFT.
No problems outside of MFT when it comes to haste. They've played it fairly safe when it comes to haste before this patch.
Better loopers are harder to down because they are already better loopers. Making a perk that does little for the average player but becomes increasingly stronger the better the survivor is doesn't make much sense. It is the same problem that DH had where the average player wasn't getting much value from it but the better players were getting too much.
Low tier killers are simple to play so they should be weaker. If they buff lower tier killers then the higher tier killers are harder to play but yield no additional value making it not make sense to play those killers. If you go down that path then you would just end up buffing the entire roster.
Getting haste off unhook doesn't need to change. Why wouldn't they do it? Yea I'm sure there's more work to it than just changing some numbers on a perk and calling it a day but its the healthier and better option compared to gutting 2 perks people want to use still. Just make us choose which one we want.
Harder loopers deserve to be harder to down, thats the reward of getting experience in the game and getting better. I'm confused, you want perks that reward bad players and hold their hands? There are plenty that do that already. IMO, its completely fine and rational to have certain perks give advantages to people who are more skilled. That isn't a crazy concept to me, because its normal & common in other games.
The problem with old DH (talking about the one before the latest gut nerf) was a lot of people complained about it when in reality they just weren't very good players and had self-inflated egos. It wasn't an issue against actual good killers. Annoying & frustrating though? Yea! I know several killer mains, and even some content creators who had win rates of 90%+ playing A/B/C tier killers and never hissed about DH being broken or OP. I mean Hexy for instance, a Wraith main, was winning 90% if not more of his matches, didn't matter if he was against an SWF - he actually prefers SwFs cause he likes sweating.
And the vocal ones will always be the ones who complain about a perk b/c a match didn't go their way which is exactly what happened on Reddit and the Forums. Good killer mains didn't do that, the only ones that tried to spin DH as some crazy OP perk were the ones who thought they better than they actually are. I've seen so many people blame the old DH for why they lost, when in reality they made some horrible decisions in the match that affected them way more.
Ex. I remember my 2 teammates were on death hook (1 person already dead) while I hadn't taken a single hook, I got into chase with Nemesis with 2 gens up. He stayed on me for the entirety of the 2 gens being worked on, and downed me as the final gen was completed. He hooked me near 1 of the exit gates. I got saved, teammates helped bodyblock and take hits, we got out. Found out he was a twitch streamer so wanted to watch the match back from his perspective but when I got there, this guy was just cursing me out and complaining about DH being the reason he lost and how the survivors aren't any good, etc. Just full on emotional response instead of looking at anything else. Its always gotta be the survivor's problem/fault?
What? If we buff low tier killers to be more on the lines of B/A (not even talking Blight or Nurse level), how does that have any relevance to high tier killers? How does buffing low tier killers make higher tier killers harder to play? Yield no additional value? Not everyone is playing killers based on difficulty, they play killers for their power/playstyle/strength most of the time. If low tier killers were brought up to similar levels/strength, it'd do nothing for the other killers that were already high like Wesker, Blight, Nurse etc. People would still play them.
You're tellin me if we buffed Trapper to a similar level of Wesker's, people would stop playing Wesker because it provides no serious value anymore over Trapper? Hell no! People would still play the hell out of Wesker because he's fun and still very strong. People would just have more choice in what killer to play knowing that whatever they pick, isn't crazy weak or F tier.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469347#Comment_3469347
Yeah, and all those videos show how strong that perk is also. Ppl don't run perks just bc they are "fun" they run them bc they are strong and help them win games. Nothing is fun about MfT, it's a haste perk that just makes you go faster. It doesn't offer anything interaction with the killer in a chase other than hold W to the next loop. You also were the one who said DH was a bad perk I believe when it was the number one used perk in the game for the same reason for MfT, because it's "fun".
Its a balance. DH wasn't only strong, it was a lot of fun once you got the hang of it and extremely satisfying when you did get it to proc to save yourself. MfT is passive fun. Sure, you don't get any on-use power but if you're a good looper, you'll definitely be able to use it to your advantage and chain tiles together easier. Longer chases = typically more fun/focus. And so what if it doesn't give you any strong on-use interaction with the killer? A lot of perks don't. They're passive or you don't even notice them till the end-game scoreboard.
@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469351#Comment_3469351
I would say there are zero issues with haste outside of these 2 perks and there was zero problems prior to this patch. There are a bunch of haste perks in this game and is only a problem now with MFT being added. To me that shows MFT is the core problem and nothing else.
I honestly don't see how the 3% is fine even without other things. Yea you can make mistakes and the perk won't get you out of there but 6.0 DH somewhat did the same. The problem with perks like this is it makes better loopers harder to down compared to other exhaustion perks and hit the lower tier killers much harder. From there you look at endgame issues and seems like the correct thing would be nerfing the new perk that is causing the issues.
If there are 0 issues with haste outside of these 2 perks, why not just address haste stacking? Its a simple solution and it doesn't screw over people who just want to run 1 perk or the other. Like I said, I don't even run Hope with MfT. Just because there hasn't been any prior issues with haste doesn't mean haste stacking shouldn't be addressed.
If there are all these haste perks that are now 'problems' because of MfT, where are they? Why is no one complaining about those other perks? Why is it only Hope and MfT? No one is complaining about anything else besides these 2 perks synergizing way too strongly with one another. So why not fix that and IF people really want haste, they'll have to pick one or the other. I feel like that's a way better solution than just outright nerfing 2 perks when there are better ways around it.
But don't you think better loopers deserve to be harder to down? I think thats a pretty rational thought to think, I'd expect someone with 1000+ hours to play better than someone who has less than 100.
As for the lower tier killers, I agree somewhat with you. They do suffer more because of MfT but they suffer fundamentally because their core power/weak balancing. I'd rather have them brought up to higher standards to meet the likes of the higher tier killers like Nurse, Blight, Wesker rather than nerfing a perk that affects a fraction of the killers and is nullified by the others.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3469287#Comment_3469287
Why can't you do the same in regard to MFT? If you remove MFT then there isn't a issue, and we know this by the fact that Hope has been in the game since release. It is only a problem now because of MFT. How is MFT not the issue here?
Because haste stacking is the issue here, not 1 individual perk. When you bring 1 of these perks by themselves, they aren't a problem or deemed OP. Most people were not running Hope before this, it was considered like Pulsar said, niche. Some people did run it, sure. But no one fussed about it because it wasn't ever that crazy strong on its own.
MfT is the same deal. I run MfT as well, coupled with Resilience and I've never had someone complain about it or call it OP because I can still go down, I can still walk into a dead zone if not running WoO and its not the saving grace that MfT + Hope is at end-game. Sure it helps me in chase more if I'm a good looper but isn't that what a perk is supposed to do? And it only benefits you ideally if you are any good at chaining tiles/mindgaming so why nerf a perk that isn't directly the problem? If it were so busted strong on its own, I'd agree a nerf or looking at is in order of course. But that isn't the case (as much as some people want it to be).
Stop the 2 perks from haste stacking, that is the solution. It'll allow people to still have a choice of what they want to run and it won't kill off 2 perks people would want to use.
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Yes but hopefully they don't gut the perk. Just address haste stacking since that is the issue.
The perk by itself is fine. It becomes a problem when Hope is paired with it.
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I don't want him to get the Hillbilly treatment at all since he's actually very enjoyable to go against personally. But I'd be lying to myself if I didn't think he's busted and has been busted for a long time in terms of strength vs every other killer besides Nurse. Some adjustments are def in order IMO.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467947#Comment_3467947
For whatever reason, the survey does not offer all questions to all participants. I didn't get this question either.
I'd have said Sadako for buffs, Blight for nerfs (albeit only his add-ons) and maybe Trapper for rework?
Oh thats stupid. I wonder why they wouldn't want that question answered by everyone.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Wait you all got asked a question on who to buff, nerf and rework? I didn't get that question ;-;
it was 1 of the very last questions, maybe might have skipped it.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467874#Comment_3467874
If the mods don't like this thread then are more than happy to remove it, I don't care. I posted this because I wanted to and I have no reason to share anything with a bunch of strangers on the internet. If you don't like this thread then don't read it and move on with your life. I honestly don't care if you like it or not since you know I don't know you and honestly don't want to know you. Have a blessed day...
Its not about liking a thread or not, lol. Its a forum thread to check out, thats all. Liking it or not has no relevance in terms of agreeing or disagreeing with you.
Sure, you can rant. Go at it, man. I've done it before too. Most of us have. The difference is when you call for nerfs on things w/o anything more than a result scoreboard screenshot and then when asked to show footage or actual evidence, you clapback 'nope sorry this is enough and i dont need anything else'. So everyone should just take your word and believe it?
Ahh, yes lets call everyone clowns who disagrees with you when they have every right to, especially considering you have 0 real proof. What people want to see is the match, you don't want to upload it or don't have the footage. But I'm willing to bet you made some dumb decisions or mistakes and there''s probably room for critique on your part.
You surprised not everyone agrees with you or has the same take? Wow who could have seen that coming. And whether you want to know me or not doesn't matter. You made a baseless thread to rant in because you had a bad match and I decided to reply to it. Fair is fair. Likewise to you, enjoy your day.