Vlieger
Vlieger
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Delete it. It's not a nerf if it doesn't exist.
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I think it is not reasonable to say "Stop all new content until current content is balanced"
New content is how the company makes money and encourages players to join the game or return to the game. Fixes and balance need to happen along side a steady flow of content. Which is how they roll things out right now.
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I understand your logic and argument. We can agree to disagree I suppose. <3
You seem to be more in the mindset of putting rules in place that would put a skillcap on the game for those who have become too good.
Imo it is a healthier choice for the game to instead increase and expand the existing system to allow for a higher skillcap. This does create more of a learning experience for new players, but in the end a more satisfying experience and greater sense of accomplishment.
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@Crythor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453695#Comment_453695
Thats true. But both sides could be brought closer together then they are now.
That's the dream, but easier said than done.
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Balancing an asymmetrical game isn't really possible. There will always be power shifts to one side or the other as things get added/changed.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453558#Comment_453558
Like I told you, adding a new objective is too oppressive to survivors. Low rank survivors will be hurt and high rank survivors will barely be phased. It won't make a difference. Time gates are the ONLY way to actually slow down the game such that only the best survivors are affected.
There is nothing wrong with making it so that you can't blaze through gens super fast. If 3 gens pop, and all other gens regress, there's nothing actually stopping the survivors from continuing to rush gens. They can still do it, there is no need to 99 a gen and sit around and wait. You are wasting time, it would still be more effective to just finish the gens when you can finish them. Only if you do them too fast you can potentially lose time on other gens. That means in order to do them most efficiently you need to finish gens at a steady pace instead of 2-3 at a time. It's the only way to slow down the game at high ranks without completely screwing over low ranks.
How is a new objective more oppressive then a time gate? At least with an additional objective the survivors still have an opportunity to rush it and be good at it. A time gate is punishing those who are good at the game. Trying to implement a system that would punish skilled survivors and not effect unskilled survivors kind of defeats the purpose of the game.
A game should be something that challenges you and be something you can improve at, not a generic forced experience that you cannot influence.
Yes an additional objective would be harder for unskilled players, but that is the whole point of being unskilled at a game. You improve.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453492#Comment_453492
Then you are wasting time and the killer is gaining time. You would be better served going to find a new gen to work on if that's your plan.
Either way the system would be punishing survivors for doing well, which is never good game design. Good game design would be to extend the length of a match fluidly and make it fun for both sides. Any generic time gate system is not fluid and very predictable.
Adding another objective like the one I originally suggested in this thread would be a way to extend the match, give both sides something to do during that extra time, and would be dynamic to how well either side does. Not just some system that says "the game has to last at least this long"
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453166#Comment_453166
If you 99 gens then killer can kick them.
If you pop 3 quick then it regresses all the others.
So yes it adds time. No survivors will 99 every gen on the map. Maybe 2 at most but you are talking about something that doesn't and wouldn't happen IRL.
If the system was in place that you were suggesting and I am playing survivor and working on a gen, I see a gen just popped and know I will be penalized for finishing my gen, I would 99 it. Go hide nearby, if killer kicks it I would go tap it. Then go pop it once I am no longer penalized for doing so.
Exciting gameplay. Yes it would happen if that was the objective. What else are the survivors supposed to do during the time they have to wait to pop a gen? You see the issue with adding a generic time gate? There is nothing for one side to do during that time other than hide and wait for the next time gate.
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@thesuicidefox The problem with your idea is there is nothing stopping survivors from 99ing all gens, then just popping them within the "cooldown" constraints. Wouldn't add much time to the game unfortunately.
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Different difficulties at different ranks would just create incentive to derank or always play swf with at least one person who is not within the "high" ranks to get easier matches.
I like the 5% immediate damage when a gen is kicked idea. Most of the time it isn't worth it to kick a gen since regression is so slow and a survivor can just walk by and tap it to stop the regression.
I like suggestions of adding other objectives or something along the lines of you have to find a part to repair a generator. Once you find a part you put it in a gen, and anyone can then repair that gen. Could possibly even change the Brand New Part addon along with this into essentially bringing a part into the game with you so you can start repairing right away.
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Aside from camping the first hook and mori.... there is no counterplay to it. Which is why it is such a broken perk. Free second chance for a survivor.
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We only care about cultured peoples opinions here. All others may leave.
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Soon
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Yes if it's fun to play on the PTB and doesn't get nerfed crazily before going to live.
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No system is perfect, and no system will work for everyone, but it is evident that the current system is not working and is visibly hurting the game and community.
The change I suggested is easy to implement and removes temptation. Persistent people will still d/c, but this solution creates a buffer to the disconnects.
Another solution in the current system could be to adjust the % of disconnects a player needs before getting a ban, but actually completely preventing a player from playing your game would also have very negative effects since the playerbase will drop.
Something needs to change in the current system. Dedicated servers are still too far away to just sweep the issue under the rug until those are in place.
I personally have not played in a couple of weeks at this point due to more then half the time on the game I was getting 3v1 games, or people are disconnecting from 4v1 games resulting in the same thing. It sucks for both killers and survivors.
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So what kind of solution would you propose then? How do you determine if a person is leaving a match cause of "legitimate reasons"
From the sound of it, that is the system in place now, and it is being abused to the point that it is ruining the majority of games for other people.
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I agree, dedicated servers will be when BHVR can finally make a change or take action to solve the issue completely. But dedicated servers won't even be launching till summer (so at minimum 2 more months?), and how long after that will BHVR take to gather data and implement a solution.
A band-aid solution is needed until a permanent solution can be implemented.
so you are saying you support people disconnecting from matches and if they didn't have that choice they would quit playing the game entirely?
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@Kilmeran If you read my original post I say " I think the amount of current disconnects would decrease a lot. I don't think the majority of people disconnecting currently would be willing to alt+f4 their game and relaunch it just to quit out of a match."
I'm not saying it will stop people from relaunching their game, but I doubt everyone currently disconnecting would continue to do so and start this new practice.
Removing the button is a fast thing to do which, in my opinion, would LESSEN the amount of d/cs. It would in no way solve the issue, but with how long changes take to implement this is merely an action BHVR could take to bandaid an issue that is becoming a very big problem.
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As others have pointed out there are other ways of closing the game if that is really what you need to do. If you had to close the game for a real life emergency it would be easier to close it in one of these fashions anyways. If you use the leave game button you then have to continue to click back through the lobby and main menu screens to finally quit the game.
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I like the idea and definitely think a timeout would be reasonable if the player had the opportunity to rejoin the match.
There is one fix that I think would be super easy to implement and would at least decrease disconnects a little.
REMOVE the Leave Game button.
Why is it even there if disconnecting is frowned upon and if done enough a bannable offense? Just get rid of it. Don't give players the option to leave the match if you don't want people leaving matches.
Without the button I think the amount of current disconnects would decrease a lot. I don't think the majority of people disconnecting currently would be willing to alt+f4 their game and relaunch it just to quit out of a match.
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Looping/chasing and mind gaming loops is one of the only fun things in this game. Lets remove all the fun!
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I was watching a streamer try to figure out last night if this bug was happening randomly or something specific was triggering it. It seemed to be mostly random when it would happen so jokingly the idea was brought up that BHVR added crit chance to DBD.
While I could never see crit chance being added as a base system it could be a fun killer perk idea. Something along the lines of: "Any basic M1 attack now has a small chance (4%?) to put the survivor into the dying state. Being put into the dying state by this attack cannot be prevented if hit."
Imo just a fun idea since there seems to be so much complaining about the current state of this "second chance" survivor meta. Seems only fair to give killers a passive free down perk.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444834#Comment_444834
@Vlieger Survivors can make several mistakes and still make it out of the gate.
A killer mindgames a single loop wrong and it can literally cost them the entire game and 4 kills even if that was the only mistake they made. Survivors can equip passive perks and make 6+ mistakes and still laugh as they sprint to the exit gate and T-bag. Where's the killer ability to mind game wrong and still slap the survivor to the ground? Where's the killer's ability to just gib a survivor because they did a generator? That's the equivilent to having put up with 12+ second chance perks in a trial, and that's not even counting potential items or SWF on top of it all.
If you have an end game build, then you have a chance to catch up or to make up for it. That's what makes them powerful. However, when you begin nerfing all killer's end game potential to the ground, then there's little to no hope and you may as well just give up. End game is when survivors already have all the power and killers have the least.
Survivor always has a chance to escape -- they have several chances to escape, but killers never always have a chance to get a kill, and that may happen just from one single mistake they made that causes the match to snowball way out of their grasp.
If they want the game to be balanced, killers need to have just as many chances as survivors, whether that means giving survivors less chances (nerfing and reducing the abundance of second chance perks), or giving killers more chances like survivors do (make it take longer to power exit gates). Also get rid of infinites and psuedo infinites.
As it is now, if a team runs an abundance of second chance perks and rushes gens and you're just one of the weaker cast of characters (that being 10 of 15 killers) -- there's no chance to win. It takes way too many hits and way too much time to down a single survivor even if they just ran in a straight line, let alone if they actually loop you.
As I said in other threads, they've gutted killer end game potential just to add a concede button that's on a timer, when all they could have done is just added a concede button.
Agree with most things you said accept for the concede button. I don't think changing Pigs RBTs and nerfing Remember Me means endgame is dead. I think it means it will just change to different scenarios now.
As for the other stuff you mention, as Peanits said, it is very tricky to balance an asymmetrical game with anything new they add the balance will always shift one way or the other. I personally main killer so I know how little room for error there is. I play survivor to relax cause it is so easy and I can mess up tons.
I personally like EGC cause it is new content that we haven't seen before. Sure you won't always play in the EGC, but there will be some really fun scenarios on both sides because of it. I would much rather have new content be added and changes be made, due to that content, to eliminate 'absolute no win scenarios' then continuing to play the same game forever.
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@Sairek I like the point you make, but even if you are being outplayed by a team of SWF that doesn't mean you do/did not have a chance to win.
The BHVR philosophy sounds to be more of trying to eliminate game mechanics that prevent one side or the other from not having a chance. The point you bring up is the human element of PvP. The chance to win is still there from a gameplay perspective, just unlikely because you are outmatched.
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Imagine voluntarily participating in a server infrastructure test and day 1 threatening and calling for refunds. smh
Maybe participate in the current and future tests and provide constructive feedback and data to show an Australian server is needed?
Yes they have region user counts, no they do not have any data besides today's on how those regions will interact with their dedicated servers. They can clearly add more as needed.
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I agree. Everyone was awesome. Ethan also seemed very knowledgeable and passionate about the Legion changes, AND he had some stylish af nail polish. respect
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/442987#Comment_442987
But you guys don't listen to our feedback.
-EGC timer was adjusted from 3 minute base to 2 minute base because of PTB feedback.
-Legion can search lockers during FF now because of PTB feedback.
-Gate opening time was reverted back to 20 seconds because of PTB feedback.
-Pigs RBT timer not ticking down in terror radius was reverted because of PTB feedback.
In short..... you are wrong.
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Is the footage actually something you were watching if it wasn't full screened?
Even when the footage was fullscreened I was personally too distracted by the conversation going on to care what the footage was since it was all just PTB gameplay anyways that you can play yourself if you're on PC or watch a streamer play it if you are not.
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@Peanits said:
Those questions definitely were edited for clarity first, but stuff happens when you haven't had a stream in a while. We can see about getting the second one in, but no promises!
Hah fair enough. Any live broadcast is bound to have stuff like that. Everyone did a good job of laughing about it and moving on.
No promises required. Just some feedback from 1 person. You guys do you.
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Oh I am waiting.
I think dedicated servers could be great for the game in the long run and will give BHVR the ability to make some great changes that would've otherwise been impossible in the current infrastructure. I just think they have been built up too much at this point.
While I did intend my original post to exaggerate that point... just want to clarify I am hopeful, but realistic about the dedicated servers. They will definitely not fix everything people are expecting them to right away, but it will at least open the door for most things to be fixed/improved on at some point.
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@Bug_Reporter said:
Meh, i open a serious discussion on how to improve the game and ppl think its a troll post ahahahaha!
I agree with @Alther_Primus This would just encourage gen rushing for survivors & gen defending for killers and would discourage killers committing to chases. Why would a killer bother chasing/downing a survivor if all survivors will die if the killer just stalls gen progress for a certain amount of time?
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Psssh who needs to "update" killers when instead we can just make more perks:
New survivor perk:
That Tickles - "TeeHee" - If any action would put you into the dying state you are instead healed to full.
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Cool idea, thanks for sharing. The overall concept of forcing a survivor to do skillchecks while being chased sounds interesting and stressful.
I think the last ability that lets the killer throw a pallet down isn't something that would ever or should ever be implemented though. For a couple reasons:
-Even with the restrictions you state it could still be abused. i.e. looping near killer shack, turn around while still in chase, force the God Pallet down, turn back around and continue chase. Giving the killer the ability to burn up finite Survivor defense resources doesn't sound good.
-Good survivors can run killers around loops and will drop a pallet only to break bloodlust before running to the next loop. So giving a killer, that would be in bloodlust if the ability was only usable after a certain amount of time in the chase, the ability to drop a pallet at range then either hit the stunned survivor on the close side, or walk around the other side with bloodlust, is just way too strong.
I'm also not a big fan of 110% move speed and really hope BHVR doesn't do another killer like that soon, but if it was gonna be 110% move speed I would say change that 3rd ability to some sort of map pressure/travel ability.
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@Yohan said:
What are dedicated servers?
They are the feature that everyone has built up as a silver bullet fix to everything that will make everything sunshine and rainbows.
When in reality it will break things and all the people that wanted them will quickly turn to complaining.
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BALANCE
Gameplay
- Adjusted the gate opening time for Survivors from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
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WHY?! Gates already open too fast and are a pointless objective. Just get rid of them at this point.
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I'm excited to try the Legion changes.
I don't think Legion is going to be as terrible as all the complainers are saying. Definitely won't be top tier, but should easily be a high mid tier killer in the right hands.
-115% move speed
-Guaranteed easy first hit followed by 32 meter tracking around you
-Can use ability to cover distances faster
-Short af for easy mind gaming behind loops that the taller killers can be easily tracked on
Sounds like all good things to me.
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Yeah it's not uncommon for someone to ragequit by using the "leave game" button. This only returns them to the lobby where they can choose to spectate or stick around till the game is over and join in the chat if they want.
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The changes fix him from having to tunnel with his ability and prevent toxic moonwalking.
Plus getting buffed to a 4.6m/s move speed.
I am excited to play a killer that gets a guaranteed quick first hit, followed by 32m tracking of anyone nearby to tell me if I should use the rest of my frenzy to catch up to the survivor I just hit, or go pressure someone else. If I decide to go after the person I just hit, ezpz normal chase at 115% move speed.
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Hard to say until we get the numbers or can test how much the timer slows down when a survivor is put into the dying state or hooked.
Also several questions were answered in the News thread on the Collapse: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/58159/dead-by-daylight-endgame-collapse#latest
Since the endgame perk changes were mentioned this is what was said in that thread on the subject:
"WILL ANY END GAME PERKS RECEIVE CHANGES?
Most end game perks will remain unchanged, but there will be tweaks to the following perks:
- Remember Me
- Left Behind"
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/428086#Comment_428086
Well, with that being said, the fact that closing the hatch powers the exit gates wasn't explicitly stated in the video, but can be assumed by the clip, so, I don't think it's out of the ordinary for people to assume that killer can open doors at any time either.
Oh it's definitely not out of the ordinary to make the assumption. Which is why I made it. Just glad to have it clarified by @Peanits
The amount of information we've got this week and all the responses from BHVR has been great. Live Q&A coming up and so many questions being asked that they have already posted some answers.... they have definitely heard the community on the "we want more info" message and are clearly making great communication improvements.
I'll gladly give them a pass for letting a little mistake slip into the preview video. ;D
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/428065#Comment_428065
So then why include it in the video, just seems like this won't be the only time this conclusion would be assumed.
I assume it was just an oversight or an underestimation of how the community would dissect every little detail of the footage. xD
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@Peanits Thanks for the clarification. Also just found the already answered questions in the original Collapse thread where it stated:
"CAN THE KILLER OPEN THE EXIT GATES AT ANY POINT IN THE TRIAL, OR ONLY ONCE THE GENERATORS ARE POWERED?
The Killer can only open the gates when the generators have been powered."
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@ClogWench said:
Are you telling me I can trigger endgame pig shenanigans right off the bat?
Unless the video lies. Yes.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/427189#Comment_427189
No it doesn't. It makes it way easier. Now you just camp a gate and wait for the Killer to power it up for you by getting impatient and closing the hatch.
Ez win
I wonder in a scenario like this where a killer is camping the open hatch, and a survivor is camping an exit gate.... who is to blame for holding the game hostage? Or would neither side be responsible since both sides can theoretically progress the game?
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It is April 25th, there is a thread open right now where you can post your questions in advance:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/57974/live-q-a-post-your-legion-questions-here/p1
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@pushkina said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/427140#Comment_427140
Buff for killers, big nerf to solo players.
Killers needed a buff to the hatch stand off as it has always been survivor sided. This is swinging it more to the killers favor, but it is at least more balanced than it was.
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- I think it will most likely be a situation where if the killer finds the hatch first they will camp it and not close it. This would force the survivor to do a gen to show their location. Then killer can close it and run for the gen.
- 3 minutes really isn't that long, but until the Collapse is tested and we can see how it plays there really isn't much point in arguing the timer and how it slows down, but I would assume this is one area that BHVR would be very open to adjusting if feedback is submitted after the PTB.
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@scorpio Yeah with the existing endgame perks there should be a lot of fun/dynamic situations that could happen during the Collapse. Excited to try it out.
I'm not super opposed to the timer slowing down, 3 minutes really isn't that long as it is, but will just have to see how it plays out on the PTB.
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@Kilmeran Ah yeah good point on the Freddy rework, although with how long that has taken already I am sure there will be quite some time to use the existing Freddy perks with the Collapse.
But realistically they are probably changing Remember Me and Blood Warden along with the release of the Collapse. :(
