VibranToucan
VibranToucan
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911500#Comment_3911500
I reworded what I posted less than two minutes after I posted it because I got distracted writing it in the first place.
And you can still combine haste perks that function in two different situations, it's just that if they overlap they don't stack.
You could also run 4 Exhaustion perks, but that build would likely end up being as useful as 1 exhaustion perk most of the time. Stacking was the whole fun of builds that use multiple haste perks, I know you can still waste perk slots by combining them, but they shouldn't be wasted slots.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911458#Comment_3911458
They're not taking away options, they're taking away stacking but making the individual options better. I'd rather have a good haste perk that only takes up one slot than two weak haste perks taking up half my slots to get some niche effect.
Plus, like I said, letting the perks' haste effects stack limits future options for perks.
They could probably also balance perks better if you only had 1 perk slot. Doesnt mean thats a good idea either.
And just because I can compare one thing to another doesn't make it a good or useful comparison.
They are taking away the options to reasonably combine things. I'd rather have the options to combine haste perks as I want, while still getting their effect, than being limited to 1 per build.
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I think the approval is very low given the context for such a change.
- Skull Merchant is the most hated Killer in the game. There will be tons of people who just voted yes, without engaging with the changes, just because they think "anything must be better than what we have now."
- This change will likely make Survivors more happy than Killer, due to Survivors disliking her more than Killers. For the game to work, 4 times as many people need to play Survivor than killer at any given time. If Survivors said yes to something and Killers no, the results are 80/20. These results mean that even sizeable chunck of the Survivor community didn't vote yes, despite how much they dislike current Skull Merchant.
- 1 and 2 and my interaction with the community generally paint a picture. People who said yes generally, like the changes and think its a nice thing. People who said no, generally absolutely despise the changes and think this might be one of the worst things ever to come to dbd. I am not nearly as confident that people who voted "yes" will actually like the changes, as I am that people who voted "no" will hate the changes.
- Yes, 51% of the community said "Yes", but 25% of the community said "No". This means half as many people are unhappy with the changes as happy. If this was an "implement A or implement B" choice, then yeah going with A would make sense. But it is an "implement A or keep B" choice, this would be the biggest rework in dbd history, so you are using immense resources on a change you know a large part of the community will be upset by, meanwhile the people who said "yes" said they would like the change, but you can't know for sure until they actually tried it. It is just a big gamble.
In addition to that, while I didn't play Skull Merchant that much I always appreciated how unique she was. She was only the third or fourth killer (depending if you count demo) to place her power as an interactible object, and the spinning feature was completely unique. She was not the best designed the killer in the game, but she was the most interesting and weird, and now losing the that uniqueness for "look at Survivor, press power button, launch something/yourself at Survivor", which is like half the Killers in the game by now, just doesn't sit right with me.
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@TragicSolitude said:
There are so many cool builds you can do where you stack haste and its far from OP but it is funny.
They're far from OP because haste perks are kept extremely weak because they can stack. It's also a balancing nightmare to have perks that stack like that, and it limits what new perks they can create.
I mean yeah, thats how games that give you options work. They could probably also balance perks better if you only had 1 perk slot. Doesnt mean thats a good idea either.
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@BasementDweller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906678#Comment_3906678
Yeah its called a bug, you had access to a skin you shouldn't have.
They patched the bug, you can still play the character. There's nothing 'scummy' here.
They put content in the game that claimed people would get it from buying something else, and once the people bought that they put another paywall inbetween.
They could have said "Hey, everyone getting the Ghoul skin is a bug, we are working on fixing it, don't expect to keep it." But they didn't.
Imagine if they suddenly made it so you need to pay 2000 AC to play any killer but trapper and said "Oh, that was always meant to be this way. Not having to pay to play was a bug." Would you als be like: "Its not a big deal, you can still acess the perks of the killers you bought when you were under the false impression you could use the killers for free. Its not like you lost all your contents, and you can always pay money to use what you thought you had. They fixed a bug, there was nothing 'scummy' here."
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906670#Comment_3906670
Except you did not pay anything of the skin.
I paid for the character after the game told me I would be able to use the skin.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906664#Comment_3906664
They did better than an attempt to correct it - they successfully corrected it by taking it out of your inventory.
They did that AFTER I paid money to be able to use it.
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@Wezqu said:
There is no scum in it they were never promised anywhere and you getting accidentally does not make you entitled of them.
If the game tells me I can use something if I pay real money, then I feel I should be entitled to it if I pay that real money, not an additional money barrier between it that wasn't shown before.
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@kit_mason said:
lets just be clear. you mistakenly thought you owned something you didn't buy, bhvr fixed it because - again - you didn't buy it, and you're now mad that you don't own the thing that you didn't buy?
I mistakenly thought I owned it because the game told me I owned it, and the company behind the game made no attempt to correct it.
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Strong agree. I would be all for giving map variants the same chance as one map, but just removing a ton of content is not good.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441556/i-really-like-the-toky-ghoul-skins
yeahhhhh about that "free" skin…
Thats sadly a bug. I assume its gonna get removed in the near future.
I checked known issues and its not listed there so I doubt that.
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This is a horrible idea. You will literally never get most people to stop hating Skull Merchant, understand that. Just make her as fun for the people on both sides for the people who are willing to engange with her, instead of trying to win over the people who will always have an irrational hatred of her.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900548#Comment_3900548
Right now: What is skull merchant capable of doing?
Answer: If you get scanned you get a charge except if you get three then you get injured and broken except if youre already injured then you get deep wound also you get hindered also if you get scanned within a few seconds of the drone getting placed she gets haste (haste has no tell btw) also when she places a drone shes undetectable, also if you get scanned she can see you on her radarWith BHVR's suggestion: What is skull merchant capable of doing?
Answer: She places drones and if the drones scan you she can try and fly them into you to injure you, also if you hear a ding don't sprint or she can see you.
Am I not making sense? Clearly the new power is way simpler than the old one.
Again. The haste part is bugged. Might as well not exist.
New Merchant: She places drone and these drones have invsibile scan lines but also they rotate slowly and so you need to watch the orange lights and if you get scanned then she knows you are there and she can manually move drones around and while she does that drones lose power, but she has undetectable while she is doing this and also she can shoot drones with high mobility to injure you but only if they have a lot of power and also you can try to disarm drones and if you succeed you see her aura but if you fail she gets killer instinct and also from time to time you are not allowed to move or you are revealed to her.
Doesnt sound less complicated.
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@kit_mason said:
So is she confusing enough that you can't grasp what her power is or is she clear enough that you can call her a mixture of two other killers with enough certainty to angrily complain about it?
And 2 is blatantly untrue. She's currently juggling Deep Wound, Undetectable, Broken, Hinder, Haste, Killer Instinct and that's not including her power - Claw Traps, Radar Scan Time, etc. Her new kit will have two aspects - avoid scan or dodge drone and red light green light. Both can be digested and understood.
Her old kit had deep wounds, if you get hit while injured. Undetectable after using your power. Broken and Hindered if you get hit. The haste was bugged and most of the time didn't even work. It had a lot of parts but they were simple in practice.
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Her current kit should get changed, but that rework is absolutely terrible.
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You are assigning the fault for an issue where it doesn't exist. You can watch the Mori animation for free in the lobby. And slugging for the 4k existed long before the finisher mori. Odds are in 95% of cases the person who slugged you and then moried you would have slugged and hooked you otherwise, or just brought a Moro offering.
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I agree with Picking Modes in Customs, custom needs a lot of improvements in general, but I don't think they should spend dev time on proximity chat
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@upsideinsanity said:
Lets address that they said slugging was not an issue before they implemented the finisher mori. They posted stats at that time. I would love to see where the stats are now with the finisher mori being a thing for… how long?
Those of you complaining about the need to slug can do it with similar results, you get the win against solo q and you get rekt against a swf; that will not change with the KO update. Get over it. Stop making the games miserable for survivors. When I play killer, I don't have to slug to win (past the occasional opportunistic slugging). If you have to slug to win, that's a skill issue.
Waaaaaahhhhhhh our slowdowns were nerfed. Maybe if you all didn't stack and abuse them, that wouldn't have happened. Survivor's DH, Adrenaline and Background Player were all nerfed too but you all seem to forget about those.
They implemented the finisher Mori after nerfing the strongest hook related slow downs and buffing sabotage and buffing flashbang and before adding shoulder the burden. Of course slugging goes up in that time frame, even without a finisher Mori.
Knock out change is healthy. "If you have to slug to win, that's a skill issue" is absolutely dumb tho. Like what can I say besides "No, you're wrong." Like Hens made a video called "Killer Vs Survivor - No limit showcase" and the two games the killer won they slugged and it still ended up being close games. Yeah, you don't have to slug every game or every down. But the idea that you should go for the instapick 99% of the time is just stupid.
Adrenaline was nerfed by only a small bit. They just announced a Dead Hard Buff. Background player got a huge compensation buff to the point the change was more of a redesign than a nerf.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892886#Comment_3892886
Flashbang is top 20 because it's fun
The other two got buffed as compensation for being over-nerfed, and are still weaker than they were before the original nerfs. Conveniently those over-nerfs happened just outside your chosen time frame
Flashbang absolutely is a strong perk. It is a million times harder to avoid than a flashbang save. Decisive Strike absolutely wasn't over nerfed. Even at 3 seconds it was a pretty powerful perk. They actually had to go a bit back (but not fully) back on the buff because they overbuffed it.
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This seems like a stupid change. Like let's say you have some flame progress build up and just finished a chase.
In this scenario it would be the optimal play to run into a flame turret and let it knock you out if crawler mode, because it is faster to just re-enter crawler mode than to wait for the flame progress to die down.
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Question: How many countries are there? Because there are certain places where there are, lets just say differing opinions, on if they are countries or not. And I don't think BHVR wants to make statements on that.
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@Brokenbones said:
Knockout's being changed because it promotes unhealthy playstyles that heavily punish solo q survivors
BHVR want killers to hook people, not leave them to bleed out for several minutes. This is also why the slug surrender mechanic is being added, so instead of a 4 man having to wait to die they can just give up and move on fast.
If they want me to hook, maybe don't nerf Pain Res and Pop and Grim Embrace, while buffing Off the Record and Dead Hard and DS and Sabotaging and Flashbang, and allowing flashbang to be bugged, and adding Shoulder the Burden.
And before you accuse me of anything, literally the only time I ever used knock out was for Bubba Adept. I agree that it needed a rework. But the idea that the knockout rework encourages killers to hook is just wrong. Playing killer I find myself more and more pushed towards slugging people because if I try to hook I get punished.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892461#Comment_3892461
It was perks like Ace in the Hole and No One Left Behind that got buffed. You know, the really broken OP abusable stuff
Iron Will, Flashbang, Deceisive Strike. Three top 20 perks that have been given blanket buffs. Made for this + We're gonna live together as the new FTP Buckle Up (they had to instantly nerf it a bit because of how much they overbuffed it and its still super strong), Resurgance is now almost a free heal of the hook, Babysitter makes the unhooked person outrun the killer at times, Background Player had its cooldown cut in half,
Dead Hard and Off the Record buffs have just been announced a few hours ago.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892214#Comment_3892214
Weren't the best survivor perks nerfed overall this past year?
Adrenaline and Distortion were nerfed in this past year, at least. Which of the best perks were buffed? I'm drawing a blank there.
Adranline was nerfed but DS was buffed as I said. Distortion is just a mid perk and always has been. The nerf to it actually helped Soloqueue because it made the rat playstyle less viable. Shoulder the Burden one of the strongest SWF perks ever has been added, Finesse has been added and instantly became a top 10 perk and keeps that status to this day, Iron Will (currently 11 most perk) and Flashbang (currently 17th most used perk) have both been buffed.
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Killers have been pretty consistently nerfed over the past year. The best gen regression has been nerfed, sabotages have been buffed, hook stages have been nerfed, there is now a generator damage limit, the best Survivor perks are buffed, flashbangs are even more unavoidable than they used to be, Deceisive Strike and even better "anti-tunnel" perk has been added, hell even chests have been buffed.
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Aura reading:
This game is not supposed to be hide and seek. It was like that on release and they made it more chase based over the years.
Anyway, there are some noteable differences between aura reading of Survivors and of Killers. First of all, the Killer needs to get to Survivors to progress the game. Might be obvious, but the Survivors can win without even seeing the killer. The killer can't. The killer relies more on knowledge, therefore they need it more. Secondly, you can't really compare Killer Perks to Survivor Perks. The Killer only has 4 perk slots, the Survivors have 16. Killer perks need to be 4 times as powerful as Survivor perks for them to be balanced. Aura reading perks are far from the strongest perks in the game. If you use aura reading you give up direct chase power or gen regression that could have been in that spot.
To take a look at the examples you named:
Opening a locker, only Trickster and Huntress do that reguarly, the other killers need to waste their time doing that and it makes a sound to nearby Survivors. And that perk fails if the Survivors aren't near lockers.
Kicking a generator is an atrocious waste of time. If even 2 Survivors sit on a gen they gain more total progress in the time it just takes you to kick it. And even then it only shows nearby Survivors.
You also mentioned completing gens, which refers to Bitter Murmur. An absolute trash perk that, i have only ever seen beginners or random perk people use. By the time the first gen pops you should generally have an idea where everyone vaguely is.
I agree Hex Undying doesn't need to show aura, but since they insist on having perks levelable there has to be some stat that changes as you unlock it.
I'm all Ears is also perfectly fine, it pretty much only triggers when you are already in chase with someone which helps mindgame against them, especially since vaulting usually already puts them at a distance against the killer.
Aura reading is fine. This game is not hide and seek. It is not about finding Survivors as much as it is about chasing them.
Slugging:
Slugging is not at an all time high because of the mori. It is because BHVR made tons of balance changes to discourage it over the past year. They buffed Sabotage, Increased Hook Time, Nerfed Pain Res and Pop and Grim Embrace, Buffed DS, Added Deceisive Strike, Nerfed FTP + Buckle Up (I don't want that combo back, but it is still relevant), buffed Flashbangs, kept Flashbang in the game despite being bugged, etc… Slugging is at an all time high because it became the more convenient option.
About your suggestion. If you get the right hook spawns, there are still spots on Maps like Eyrie, Badham or Hawkins where Survivor can be unhookable if they go down. As long as these aren't reworked I think basekit unbreakable is a bad idea.
Anti-camp:
The Resolve Meter was not supposed to be anti-camp. It was supposed to be anti-face camp. If a Killer camps you can do gens and then trade hook stages last second. It eliminated face camping and non-face camping has easy counterplay.
No Way Out:
No way out punishes Surviors for getting hooked. If nobody gets hooked its only 12 seconds. It is a great design and it and grim embrace are the only killer perks that reward the killer for going out of their way to NOT tunnel. It is a well designed perk, with good synergies, an appropiate killrate and it is far from overpowered.
Maps:
Maps don't feel to small to me in the slightest. Quite the opposite. Maps like Shelter Woods, Azarovs Resting Place, or Greenvile feel so big that I need to start running early if I want to get an unhook across the map. I feel like a size of roughly 9000 to 10000 square meters (you can see the map sizes on the dbd wiki) is good for semetrical map, smaller for stretched out maps. Ye, sometimes generators spawn to close on maps like Dead Dawg, but that seems to be an issue with the map, not the map size. Haddonfield or Toba Landing for example aren't great 3 gen maps despite their relatively small size.
Flashlights:
I agree that Flashbangs shouldnt be able to be shared or stacked, but chain blinding is fine imho. You usually get it only when your first blind stunned the killer, otherwise they can just turn their head to avoid it and it was waste of time on the Survivor side.
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Killers can't have anything lol.
The mori does not reward slugging for the 4k. All it does is play a little animation you can already see for free on the lobby screen. If you want to get the mori daily or tome challenge at all cost, you can bring an offering. I have not seen any increase in slugging for the 4k. Even when it does happen, if the other Survivor is still dying on the hook, the killer usually picks up and carries to a hook instead of slugging and waiting for them to die.
People can say "Oh, what if a Survivor was dropped at almost max wiggle progress and everyone else is forced out then they can't crawl out anymore." So what? Like I am serious. What is your point? "Oh when they nerfed Made for This it created scenarios where you would have escaped in the past with the made for this speed boost, but now you don't anymore." Yes. This is a life service game. It changes sometimes. The finishing mori made it so you actually need to stay in the trial to help your teammate. It was a balance change to the game and since Survivors get so many buffs, why shouldn't they get some nerfs too?
The finisher mori is healthy to the game. If you try to do the daily or a tome challenge to kill by your hands, and you even bring the mori offering, but everyone goes next on first or second hook, you can still get it. Same if the Survivors are too greedy to go for saves and you get multiple people on the ground on the same time. Wouldn't be the case without the mori. Sure, you'd still win but you'd need to play another game for the challenge.
What if the survivor is down near a corner, but the last hook was used on another Survivor or, even worse, is still on Breakdown cooldown. You don't need to wait for it to respawn and can just kill them. A flip flop + power struggle Survivor lying in a pallet? Well, in the past that would just end up with them bleeding out because they lose if they try to crawl away and the killer loses if they pick them up.
These are all scenarios that before would also be a "win" for the killer, but the finisher mori just makes it more convenient.
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"Killer and survivors enter match without perks, offerings and add-ons, no tools box, medkit, map nothing."
Why would that determine what side is stronger? People are allowed to bring any combination of items, perks, add ons and offerings in the only permanent mode this game has.
Selecting your build and knowing how and when to use it, is an integral part of the game, that absolutely affects the strength of both sides. Removing them from the equation would falsefy the results.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
I think a lot of players, on both sides, have complaints about balancing changes, because they dont realize they have been MMR boosted and facing opponents they shouldnt have been able to face in the first place. I'm taking killer specifically for this post due to current changes affecting them the most, but its also true for survivors when medkits were being changed, or when MFT got changed (people saying they now needed to genrush to compete with the killers they were facing, like, duh, you boosted yourself and now you have to deal with the consequences of that).
Think about it, for killers claiming that its impossible to win without slugging, in the past 4 years the following things happened:
Gens have been increased by 10 seconds.
Mapsizes have been reduced.
Basekit generator kicking applies 5% damage and the gen keeps regressing untill the survivor fixed the 5%.
Chase related interactions are 10% shorter for killers, and survivors received a 10% nerf in boost duration.
DS has been nerfed to a point its rarely being used.
Killers in general have been upped in strength.
Less pallets on average.
Less windows on average.
More hooks per square meter of map so less time carrying survivors to hooks.
And sure, BT has been made basekit, sure, hook timers have been increased by 10 seconds. But how often does basekit BT actually trigger unless you tunnel? How often do survivors stay on hook for longer than 60 seconds?
All in all, the game should have been easier for killers in general to the point where they didnt need to rely on slugging, tunnelling and 4 gen regression perks. But yet people did. And now they face survivors who are basically out of their league to the point that they have to keep relying on the things that boosted them to those brackets in the first place.
And while I think there are some valid points, I am also 100% convinced that the vast majority of players have accidentally MMR boosted themselves and now simply have to deal with the consequences untill their MMR lowers to more realistic numbers.
The game has objectively been getting easier for killers, yet you claim its harder than ever. Then maybe the conclusion should be that you're facing opponents that are out of your league."Gens have been increased by 10 seconds." So have hook stages. And gen regression perks have been nerfed, meanwhile gen speed ups has been pretty much untouched or even buffed.
"Mapsizes have been reduced." Eyrie of Crows has shrunk by less than 5% and it still is a very Survivor sided map. Greenvile square, which was added roughly a year ago, is one of the biggest maps in the game. Yeah, they shrink maps sometimes, but its just a very vague trend, not a design philosophy for healthier killer balance.
"Basekit generator kicking applies 5% damage and the gen keeps regressing untill the survivor fixed the 5%." And also gens have a regression limit. Kicking gens is still mostly a waste of time, due to the pressure you lose. The only reason you kick a gen is because you have no other way of stopping it from popping or because you have gen kick perks. And the limit made those worse.
"Chase related interactions are 10% shorter for killers, and survivors received a 10% nerf in boost duration." Bloodlust is a weak mechanic, inteded to prevent infinites against weaker killers and newer players. Any even remotely strong character has a better shot by using their power. This was a pity buff to bad players and characters, it doesn't really affect strong play much.
"DS has been nerfed to a point its rarely being used." Wrong. According to nightlight it has a 12.64% useage rate. This means you should on average see 1 DS every second game. However, if you go against organised squads the pickrate is way higher. Over my last 8 matches against SWFS I saw it on a total of 9 builds. And even if they don't use DS they use Off The Record or Dead Hard or have a teammate use Shoulder the Burden.
"Killers in general have been upped in strength." Not really Skull Merchant has been nerfed to the ground. Chucky has been nerfed pretty hard as well. While Dracula and Houndmaster are considered to be fairly strong killers, Unknown and Vecna are just mid. Of course they don't want to release a Trapper tier killer cause very few people would buy that, but its not like they add a new top 3 killer every patch.
"Less pallets on average. Less windows on average." I dont really see that. Yes, there is less than on release dbd, but that was ultra Survivor sided. Greenvile square has tons of pallets. New ormond has an avergae amount of loops and windows.
"More hooks per square meter of map so less time carrying survivors to hooks." Again, probably true if we compare to release DBD but not really. I had a Survivor go comp corner on new ormond and one sabotage was enough to not be able to reach any hook. They also buffed Sabotage overall, which means hooking is overally more difficult than it used to be. They literally had to add hooks to the Vecna map due to community feedback, because making yourself unhookable was too easy. Hell, going for unhookable is still very viable on Eyrie and Bad Ham.
"And sure, BT has been made basekit, sure, hook timers have been increased by 10 seconds. But how often does basekit BT actually trigger unless you tunnel? How often do survivors stay on hook for longer than 60 seconds?" The endurance is used like that all the time, Survivors let themself time with their unhook or come in while I am checking gens, I see them run to the hook and follow them, the unhooked Survivor uses basekit BT to take a hit.
You have also only looked at Killer Buffs. Let see what Survivors got over the past year or two:
Anti camp meter. 10 second longer hook stages. Buffed sabotage all around. Nerfed gen regression all around. Gen kick limit. Added some of the strongest perks ever (Shoulder the Burden, Finesse). Bots to replace afk teammates. Removed the unhook grab. Skull merchant nerfed to the ground because Survivors refused to understand her power. More clear UI.
Yes, killers had buffs too, but if we compare to how it was like 1 or 2 years ago, Survivors definitely got more.
So why do killers rely on slugging and tunneling and 4 regression perks now? Well, they nerfed Pain Res, nerfed Pop goes the Weasel, nerfed Grim Embrace, meanwhile they buffed flashbangs, slightly nerfed background player but gave it a compensation buff (that means it's still stronger than its release version), keep flashbangs in the game despite being bugged, and buffed sabotage.
Not only did they buff Survivor more than killer, they nerfed all the things that rewarded you for hooking different Survivors, or even hooking in the first place. If I had a penny for everytime a gen popped while I was carrying a Survivor to pain res, I'd have enough to buy another copy of dbd. Slugging enough eventually leads to the bleed out, meanwhile going for the hook can constantly be interrupted by Survivors.
So yeah. They made Killer, compared to Survivor at least, worse and especially punished killers for hooking. Thats why this is happening.
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Nah, I don't care of you send my trapper to eyrie or my blight to haddonfieldy map offerings need to go.
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Nemesis with tombstone. While you are in mutation level 3 you can insta Mori survivors.
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Spirit is a M1 killer.
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Streetwise has the advantage over built to last that it extends to your teammates. In addition to that it can be stacked with built to last or other streetwise from your teammates. Overall, this would make toolboxes way to effective as they will almost never run out.
Sole Survivor is generally a disliked perk due to encouraging a "rat playstyle", where Survivors just hide all game and then escape once their teammates are dead. I don't think buffing it without changing it's functionality will go over well.
Open-handed well your rework suggestion feels like it needs a cooldown first of all. Secondly, it will end up being very annoying like this. Imagine going for it 5 times and continuously being slugged.
Up the Ante already has dedicated builds that use it well. I don't think we should rework it. Also your rework would be insanely OP. Getting the power of 2.5 Brand new parts from 1 perk without any downside, just for the killer not tunneling is OP. Literally every survivor would run this and every killer would hard tunnel to avoid this.
Technician would end up being really annoying and strong. The killer just cannot be sure if not hearing a repair noise when they're nearby means no repair or not. They'd need to either waste time checking (and time is 4 times as important for a killer than for a Survivor) or risk the gen being done by a Survivor with technician. This is kind of like DS or Noed where nobody healthy wants to be the first hit after the gens are done, cause what if they have no ed. Except for the whole game and checking generators. You don't want to assume that not hearing anything from the gen right next to you is a sign of no Survivor, cause what if they're just on the other side with technician.
Blood Pact (Cheryl) & Teamwork: Power of Two (Thalita) & Teamwork: Collective Stealth (Renato) would be very overpowered like that. No scratch marks and free haste for two people just for healing them would make chasing Survivors way too difficult. It would be a hard counter to hit and run killers and even to other killers it would be incredibly punishing for injuring survivors.
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@bleep275 said:
Just had: back to back to back. A VPN killer from poland (wraith), VPN killer from mexico (very toxic spirit), and a VPN killer from Bulgaria (huntress). The pings from these VPN are absolutely frustrating. Had 2 dudes leave right off the bad with the wraith the ping was so bad.
PLEASE get a VPN blocker in this game or something.
The US and Mexico are in the same server regions, not sure why you would think they're VPN and not just a low ping player.
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I know how many people go next/DC against Legion or pre-nerf Skull Merchant. Tons of people will absolutely dodge games over the slightest inconvenience. To add to that there is the lower opportunity cost of dodging a lobby than leaving a game. Plus the tendency of people in this game to make up rules they expect the other players to follow...
Yeah, if that happens it will easily triple the time to get a match when I want to use my chest build or my altruistic pick up build or anything else that isn't meta.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I don't see how flashbangs are any different from killer hits and killer power jank like nemesis not playing the animation or sound sometimes when he readies his power? Hits in general in this game are desynced/read badly and feel bad, it's probably a networking thing.
It just needs a fix to the dropping sound but I think that's a DBD wide thing atm, if you watch Hens' video he talks about how sound just doesnt play through some walls etc.not really. I never seen Nemesis have no sound, they fixed wereelk after a week, chucky was sound bugged but they also fixed that, etc.. I can always perfectly hear Bubba or Nurse even if they are far away and even on maps like the game or midwich. This is an issue specific to flashbangs. Jank hits are also very rare and if you constantly get them, then that might be your personal connection.
Also, I am so tired of people pulling this. Hens has thousands of videos. I searched "Hens glitch dbd", "Hens sound glitch", etc… Nothing. If you actually wanted me to examine the evidence, you would provide the full title or give me a link to the video, instead of vaguely alluding to this video that supposedly exists.
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Most killers do not kick gens often. If you need to kick a gen, you need to waste time you could use to chase, to slow down survivors because you have little other option to prevent that gen from popping. In most games, Blast Mine is a perk that literally serves two purposes: Kick Killers while they are already down and annoy them
It is the Knock Out of Survivor perks, and like Knock Out, it should be changed.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3888226#Comment_3888226
That's how the game is designed though. The better you do, the harder your opponents get. So while you could once get great results with just one gen regression perk, you now need more as you're going against more difficult opponents but you still want the same results. If you want to go back to a level where you only needed one gen perk, then copping the losses with said perk would have been your best bet.
If you're happy to compete at the level you are at, then yeah, you'll need to bring the strongest stuff. Just like your opponents do.
Yes. You need gen regressions to win consistently. Complaining that nerfing gen regression is not a big deal because people still use it is a bad argument.
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@shadow_V said:
Ok this community really needs to stop happily kicking their feet like nothing is wrong yall I'm telling you it's not as "survivor sided" as you think.. killer was wraith he found someone right off the bat (it was a Kate that info is going to be important) and I got on a gen as soon as he started chasing (like I'm supposed to) he downed her. Hooked her then blew up my gen with scourge hook as I keep working they get her off then he found someone else and blew up my gen again he used 3 scourge hooks on my gen by the time he got his fourth hook I was still working on my gen and Kate which was the fourth hook killed herself cuz she knew it was a lost cause
Skip to the next match it was against wesker and I happened to get in with that same Kate.. she was the first one to the hooked. After she got hooked he started chasing someone else and us both standing were on gens that were almost finished so the other survivor finished theirs after it popped he went to it to chase that survivor and Kate killed herself so I said to myself we're not making it so I killed myself
Skip to the next match it's a huntress who isn't throwing hatchets (I'm trying to get an adept so yay for me) we make it to the end but she quits so it doesn't give me the adept so I try again
The next match this time it's a chucky at first it's going pretty smooth 2 gens down by the time he gets one hook and that one hook happened to chain friends til the end and it went down hill from there
I'm telling yall they are catering to the killer side
Also just had a trapper slug 3 of us at 2 gens and moried me without me being hooked... like did they not realize people would still be toxic to get as many points as they can. adding the EGC mori just encouraged toxicity even more
About the 6th or 8th match got hooked at 4 gens.. went with my rescuer to go heal but killer followed us hit me again hooked me. after i got unhooked I ran off to go do a gen. killer is chasing someone else but that same someone that only been hooked once ran him over to me therefore killer killed me (ik it wasn't my teammates fault but I was still very annoyed)
This is more of a rent then a point and srry about that I just need to get my frustration out as a solo survivor it's getting increasingly hard and sometimes unfair especially when you have people who say tunneling and slugging is fine because it's apart of the game when it's a problem no one has fun in that situation except the killer I can only hope the changes they announced will help at least a little bit
My last 9 solo queue games were:
1 Chucky, 1 Legion, 2 Blights, 2 Trappers, 1 Plague, 1 Nurse, 1 Trickster
We stayed far apart when (unless we needed to heal or smth) and healthy so the killer couldn't slug effectively. We healed quickly, took hits for one another and the person who came off the hook avoided drawing attention to them.
The results? One game with 0 kills, One game with 2 kills, One game with 4 kills and six games with only 1 kill.
This wasn't baby MMR either. All the killers knew what they were doing. If your entire team plays well you can escape quite frequently.
Like look at your post. Two games were bad due to a Kate giving up. - One game was trapper, a low mobility killer with no range, slugging. Meaning your team either grouped up too much or stupidly stepped into traps while the killer was not nearby. - You said Chucky chained friends til the end, but that's not really how the perk works. It either changes obsession or exposes, not both. You can at best get exposed every second hook with it, meaning healthy people had to constantly go down or y'all didn't heal. It is also only a few seconds of exposed so if you keep your distance he can't get the down with it. - In the last game a teammate with low game sense ran the killer to an dead on hook teammate doing a gen.
What you are describing has nothing to do with the game being killer sided, or slugging as a fundamental problem. Your issue is you get trash teammates. The one 4k from my past 9 games? That was a game where a person insta DCed.
And they can't really solve that. You can't balance things around one teammate just doing nothing of value, without overbuffing a fully organised strong team.
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@Rogue11 said:
Weird how the top 3 killer perks are some of those useless slowdown perks. Surge, Grim, DMS, and Deadlock all in the top 15 too.
I mean that's how it works lol. In the past I used one pain res or one pop and 3 non-gen perks.
Now I feel more and more like efficient teams can easily work through that. Nerfing gen regression, without addressing the need for gen regression, leads to people stacking more gen regression.
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If the killer camps a slug you can do gens. 4 minutes without any slow down or chase should be more than enough to get all gens done.
And, I'm confused on your second point. Killers can already go for the 4 man slug. The surrender isn't forced. Nothing would change.
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@DeBecker said:
You basically just want to reward slugging. This is exactly the wrong mindset. But actually devs are the same, sadly. You have a totally wrong idea on whats the issue in your scenario. Not getting a reward while abusing an obnoxious killer strategy is NOT the issue. The issue would be how badly adept achievement has been implemented.
So if I want adept, get 11 hooks and 3 kills (without slugging, camping or tunneling), close the hatch, find the last Survivor at the gate and down the last survivor, and before I can pick them up they instantly surrender, then which "obnoxious killer strategy" am I abusing?
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@Angerydoge said:
If they do this then 4 man slugging will become even more of an issue because there is literally no difference to the killer between hooking and slugging.
I mean there is usually nothing stopping killers from just picking up and hooking everyone once they got the 4 man slug.
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@UndeddJester said:
I'll address your arguments from your other post here, because this one has the more traction it seems.
- Cages not relocating when a surv is near and lack of survivor unhooking - None of the problems you have described here are attributable to the design of the mode, and the same issues are in effect in 1vs4. Players playing badly by leading the killer to cages while in chase, or being silly and making the mistake of not to hiding out of range when a killer is camping a found cage is not a problem of 2v8, it is an accepted part of any game where the team that plays worse should lose.
- Legion in 2v8 - Legion only does well in 1v4 when survivors don't understand how to play against him. Having played with and against a number of Legions now, I have come to the conclusion that Legion is no more oppressive than any other killer in 2v8, but he does require Survivors to adapt how they play. The problem is if a few survivors do not adapt how they play and keep giving the Legion the scenarios he wants, then Legion becomes very strong and will mess over the players that ARE playing correctly. However if survivors play the Legion game sensibly and use their abilities properly, then Legion is perfectly managable. Again this is the same issue in 2v8 as 1v4.
- Bots - Bots are bots, there is good and bad with bots. There have been times where a bot has actually been the MVP of the round because they actually do things unlike the rest of the cowardly goombas in my team, the "no one comes to unhook" problem you describes is often addressed by the bot. There have been times they are trash, but I've had more instances where a bot directly helped me than I have bots directly hindered me. In my experience bots have tended to roughly even out their shortcomings with their strengths, and especially now there is only 1 bot per lobby. I often don't even notice a difference to a full lobby. The fact they often take the least popular role usually means your team is pretty balanced, so have often made up for the "weakness" of the team.
- Bugs - Bugs are bugs, there are bugs in 1v4, there are bugs in 2v8. This is a poor reason to write of any mode because it isn't a criticism of the mode itself. Invalid argument to the discussion.
- RPD and Indoor Maps for 2v8 - Very easy to find anyone to heal you. Injured medics have their aura revealed and can always see injured players, Guides have their auras revealed when repairing gens, often you can see players scatter as the Scout when seeing the killer aura and looking at the HUD. It's far easier to find someone is 2v8 than it is in 1v4. Herbs have been clutch for me plenty of times, particularly the yellow herb has granted me at least 4 escapes that I otherwise wouldn't have had. Green herbs tend to get gobbled up fast, so I don't often get to use them, but that tends to mean they are working.
I'm afraid the mode is extremely popular, the most popular mode the game has ever had… you're in a minority I'm afraid, and your arguments are pretty weak at the foundation, and tend to apply just as much to 1vs4, and in same cases, more to 1vs4.
- Not unhooking is a mode mor einherit to 2v8. Lets say the following happens in 1v4: Survivor A is on hook, Survivor B is in chase and Survivors C and D are on different generators. Survivor D sees on the hud that Survivor C stops working on the gens, without starting another activity or entering chase. Survivor D can therefore conclude that Survivor C is likely going for the unhook and they don't need to stop working on their gen to do that. 2v8 is too chaotic to use the hud like that. Also, due to MMR being less strict you are paired with Survivors not close to your skill level this happens more often.
- Again, the same issue with your argument. Yes, Survivors can adapt to Legion, but due to the issues mentioned above this is easier in 1v4 than 2v8. In addition to that, in 1v4 Legion doesn't have a chase power. They can keep everyone injured, but unless the Survivors group up too much they need to be a basic M1 killer to get the down. Due to Legions partner having a chase power this issue doesn't exist in 1v4.
- Bugs in 2v8 are way more frequent tho. Due to smaller map selection the RPD out of bounds glitch was more common and I have never seen a Survivor get stuck on the killers shoulder in the normal mode. The lagspikes are also not comparable.
- That would be the case if people actually played their role. Medics often sit on gens and stuff. And, more importabtly, to go back the unhook example. You can't use the HUD to see if someone goes in the unhook in 2v8, but at least usually you can see across the map and see if someone else is running to the unhook or to heal that injured Survivor or to open that Gate and you can make a more informed decision. The constant sight blockers of RPD prevent that.
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No. Xenomorph is fine. It doesn't need a giga buff by making it's counterplay absolutely terrible.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438662/never-bring-back-2v8-ever-again
Probably the most unpopular opinion you'll ever see on forums, 2v8 is actually more fun than 1v4. Sure its still not balanced but its more fun.
First off, the bots really aren't a problem, they play better than somsle players even
A 400% bp incentive for playing the stronger role is actually super enticing. Though survivor lacks some uniqueness like no new classes, its still better to play since surviving is almost garunteed every game
Chaos shuffle and Lights out are much worse than 2v8 barely even changing the game in unique ways. The most recent modifier, Chaos shuffle 2.0 being a big flop, and tbh was never really that good, since you can essentially do perk randomizers in normal games. Survivor barely shaken no matter what perks they run, since its the stronger role anyways
Seasonal events lately have been better, though bone chill still needs more work, Anniversary, Halloween, and the lunar new year replacement, Blood Moon are really good
"First off, the bots really aren't a problem, they play better than somsle players even" Maybe in 1v4 I'd agree, but in 2v8 not really. The 2 killers seem to really confuse them and the bots have a high need for self preservation than any soloqueue teammate I ever played, meaning they often don't heal you or don't unhook you or run away at the slightest sight of a terror radius.
"Chaos shuffle and Lights out are much worse than 2v8 barely even changing the game in unique ways. The most recent modifier, Chaos shuffle 2.0 being a big flop, and tbh was never really that good, since you can essentially do perk randomizers in normal games. Survivor barely shaken no matter what perks they run, since its the stronger role anyways" People always loved Chaos Shuffle. Yes, you can do perk randomisers normally, but you can't know that the other people in the match will do that too. Thats the fun of Chaos Shuffle. And the only negativity towards the newest Chaos Shuffle I have heard was that it didn't implement dnd enough, which I agree with, but the fundamentel game mode, unlike 2v8, is good and fun.
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@acetaminophen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885025#Comment_3885025
"everything is overpowered" we're playing a totally different game then dude LOL
2 medics can heal someone mid chase (including themself), wesker has 3 dashes making him incredibly hard to dodge, engineers that have been hooked can absolutely obliterate generators, wraith still has an ungodly uncloaking speed, there is literally a collectible to undo a hook stage, etc…
This game mode is very high power compared to the main game. Of everything I said I didn't expect this to be controversial.
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@WolfgangGarou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885027#Comment_3885027
Let me get your point across: because you want to get the rewards that are exclusive to 2v8 games, but at the same time don't want to bother with the game itself, should everyone who likes the mode now do without it?
You know what? I would also like to have all the unlockable killers, perks, skins, etc., but I don't feel like playing with other players. Can I join you and get these things by playing against the bots? Or maybe without playing at all?
I mean 2v8 also makes the queue times for the normal mode worse.
Also, there is difference between disliking how the game itself mainly works, and how a mode works. Your analogy is flawed.
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884824#Comment_3884824
Just DON'T PLAY IT if you don't like it.
Then I'd miss out on the cosmetics and rift shards.
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@acetaminophen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884824#Comment_3884824
2v8 is, at its core, the same game as dead by daylight. there are drastic gameplay changes but it is obviously still dead by daylight …. if the addition of 5 more players in your lobby makes you literally want to tear your eyes out of your skull, i have a feeling you don't like 1v4 that much either
Difference between 2v8 and 1v4. No perks, no add ons, way less organised, herbs, mandatory cages instead of hooks, bots that are (pretty much) mandatory, queue times, stunlocks, classes, killer combos that can use each others strengths combined, rebuildable pallets, everything is overpowered, etc…
Sure, at their core they are similar but the difference add up to a very different gameplay experience.