Valor188917
Valor188917
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/162760/ds-should-be-removed-from-the-game
All killer aura perks and insta-down perks/addons/offerings should be removed from the game. They're a cheap get out of jail free card when the killer can't find or down you because survivors are doing their job by being immersive and looping.
Also:
https://media.tenor.com/images/e3e5453976011beb0a0df288bc4f9c20/tenor.gif
[ / endsarcasm ]
Cool, deal.
BBQ is ridiculously easy to counter
NOED is also easily countered by survivors.
I'd trade that any day to remove the multiple crutchperks that make gameplay a chore right now.
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@StutteringSpartan said:
PH has made Tunneling and camping a lot stronger due to his power.
He’s broken in a number of ways. How he made it out of PTB like this is beyond me... It took killers a few hours to work out he’s strong at tunnelling. PTB had 2 weeks ffs
Ph will have some hotfixes, just gotta wait until then
Or you know, try stealth, just don't rush the hook, heck even his torment is meant to be stealthed through.
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@Falkner09 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359510#Comment_1359510
Honestly, the current survivor meta is just infinite lives with extra steps. Dead hard, borrowed time, decisive and unbreakable.
Meanwhile one of the best killer perks is 25% gen regression after a hook LUL
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363457#Comment_1363457
I saw you in that Freddy/Demo thread, your hot takes get just as much support there as I'm giving you here lol.
I've asked you a number of times to provide links and quantify yourself, but you just can't do it can you?
FYI Tru3 nerd raged at the killer nerfs that happen a few months ago, despite his regular 4k's. If anything your explanations could be explained away as BHVR wanting to avoid bad PR than balance.
Are you tinfoil hatting that true has any influence on this game? I'm fairly certain that the devs know that while influencers help a bit they aren't end-all be-all esp if they're as small as true, I can't think of a single change he's strongarmed, not even scottjund who is way more respected AND skilled than true (who's more of an entertainer btw) was able to convince the devs to rework the maps in his suggested ways (which btw I think would've made the game worse so I'm not fanboying here). He's no Jim Sterling or Total Biscuit. Also I don't care if I'm getting support, I'm just plain right, this killer doesn't need a nerf at all, he has crappy pressure and is still garbage compared to freddy/spirit/nurse/billy. If ppl don't support nerfing the top4 then they shouldn't support nerfing PH unless they wanna continue playing against the same killers over and over and over.
Asmongold got an ashes of creation key, you know what it did for the game? Nothing. Monto was pushing for hide or die, know what it did for the games he tries to push? Nothing. Influencers are WAY overvalued unless they are industry TITANS. Most people just watch them and don't give a toss about playing those games themselves.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1360809#Comment_1360809
hahaha
You have a link for that because that's simply not true. They've expressed that there's more to it but beyond that, I'm starting to smell desperation on your behalf.
My stats based argument is better than your 'you should tryhard and not derp' one (seriously lol, just lol)
'People will work harder to maintain a belief system then to establish truth'
Have fun playing with yourself.
Ironic coming from the guy quoting stats where the devs themselves said they are not grounds for balance in DBD for obvious reasons.
Again, by your point, killers would not only be overpowered but absolutely broken with a 70% killrate and would need to be HEAVILY nerfed yet devs nerfed survivors 2 times since those stats overall and are now acclimatizing their playerbase to play with DS/BT less often.
We had depip squad already prove what everybody is telling you here, they could do the same again by the way. Now unless you show me a Freddy that does 100 4/3ks in a row then I'll just stick to an empiric test over your "stats".
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@darktrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359337#Comment_1359337
They are not crutch perks if they are required to even have a chance against tunneling/'camping both of which are rampant.
AT LEAST 1 more hookstate per survivor in a game where killers are pressed for time is not considered a crutch. ok
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So how would you buff this B- or C tier killer if you stripped aways moris from his cage? cos every nerf on something that is already weak should have a buff or else he'd just never get played.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361875#Comment_1361875
its just bs that no hook perks work on either side but a mori does. how can that be possible. no ds no bt no pop no bbq no dhope....... but you can mori from the cage. I don't think wording should be changed i think moris shouldn't work out of the cage periiod.... or if youre going to allow moris allow unhook perks. simple... if not its nonsense.. no protection out of the cage and the killer can mori i play more killer than anything and thats just nonsense,.
Again literally nothing would change, he'd just hook you and I don't think you'd have survivors bodyblocking your first hook for you.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361831#Comment_1361831
he has to waste the time to actually hook you . How can he have the benefit of sending you to the cage and the benefits of the mori as well. The cage isnt a hook... PERIOD moris shouldnt work with it.
It would be more effective to tunnel you out the game by hooking you near him instead of completely losing you by "range-hooking" you and risking having your survivorfriends near him. Just be happy he couldn't camp you to death.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361828#Comment_1361828
This is independent of mori/key balance.
It says "hooked" on the offering. It makes no sense to allow mori if literally no other hook effect works.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361829#Comment_1361829
No they don't. BBQ and Pop do not work if you cage someone. Therefore, they do not count as hooks. They only remove hook states.
You want them to change the wording on moris over such semantics?
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361419#Comment_1361419
The saloon is one of the worst maps in the game. A lack of decent loops forces stealth play, and an overabundance of high bushes means that even the brightest Nea becomes blendette. From a looping perspective, it's one of the most killer sided maps in the game. From a general gameplay perspective, it's easily one of the most, if not THE most survivor sided map in the game, simply because you can crouch in a bush and become invisible (and the darker your character, the more bushes become available for this tactic).
looping is dumb to begin with and the game is going into the direction of removing loops more and more if you haven't noticed.
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@ABannedCat said:
The map needs alot more indicators, that true. Generators, stairs, holes all need to be indicated better for both killer and survivor.
While the map is probably one of the most exciting ones for new players, for more experienced players who play a but more competetive will get annoyed by its navigation.
its not a competitive game tho so the map is fine and I wish more maps were like this. No real loops, just run from the killer.
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Then he'd just hook you, where's the difference?
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361248#Comment_1361248
Please. With all due respect, DS has been "bullsh" for almost 4 years now ever since the Halloween chapter came out in 2016. Can you believe that? A perk created almost 4 years ago has been receiving complaints for its entire four years of EXISTENCE. And instead of changing what has been a problem for 4 years, people insist on fixing the "problem" created YESTERDAY?? That's insane.
DS is problematic far beyond "getting hit by ds at key moments" and boiling it down to such an oversimplification is a massive understatement to the problems it creates even in 2020. To put it quite simply it is no longer used as an anti-tunneling perk like the rework originally intended, it is instead used as a "get out of jail free card" to facilitate extremely aggressive or extremely sloppy and stupid plays, to the point of practically serving as an "extra hook state" as @Valor188917 put it.
Saying DS is "bullsh" is putting it mildly, DS was "bullsh" before, but as time goes on and survivors become more innovative and find new inventive ways to abuse mechanics and perks in ways that weren't intended, DS has become an utter plague. Survivors have learned how to effectively maximize the output of Decisive and milk the perk for everything it's goddamn worth during a trial, and the killer previously could do absolutely nothing about it. and for 19 out 20 playable killers, they STILL can't do anything about it. Just because it's less effective on PH doesn't mean squat for everybody who: doesn't like PH or his playstyle, prefers to play other killers / their own mains, doesn't own the DLC or even just the character at all in the first place, etc.
At the same time, the counter PH has isn't even complete "bullsh" like how you described, since you must be tormented in order for PH to be able to use the ability, and Rites of Judgement can be countered and avoided whether by simply walking around or crouching through (Urban Evasion much??). Unlike killers and DS, survivors can in most cases avoid being tormented and stuck in the cage of atonement.
On top of that, perks like DS (and BT) were never meant to be 100% foolproof in the first place you're never guaranteed to escape a chase or the match just because you chose to run DS and if that were true, then DS would be even more problematic and unbalanced than it already is.
So no, I don't believe it's "countering bullsh. with bullsh." far from it. It's a mechanic that is entirely warranted, and entirely deserved. And for everybody else don't think that for a minute this lets DS off the hook for its eventual nerf because it still needs one, again, for 19 out of 20 killers it is still business casual for survivors who get to abuse this perk.
Aside from that, I love how people complain about a killer taking 3 minutes to do 25% of his objective with optimal tunneling while survivors take 3 minutes to do 80% of their objective in that time by holding m1. Also the Pyramid with this playstyle does not hardcounter BT, he only makes it 50% less useful because of 1 hook less but I found it increadibly easy to not get tormented by most pyramid heads by just not looping since many still don't use their power just on random spots like freddy does with his snares but that will probably change as people figure out there's no negative to occasionally just dragging your sword around for short patches of torment.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359858#Comment_1359858
a) Your focusing on all ranks, red ranks (where people know what they are doing) is a much higher killrate. But even then with the exception of nurse, ALL killers are above 50% (the devs unit of metric). Your statement discounts all of that.
b) 'Stats aren't facts' is quicker for you to type. Stats are still better than anecdotal talking points.
c) 'massive amount' please show me the stats on this. Because last I heard (according to the devs) d/c is down considerably. And if you're worried about suicides, its probably good to listen to the advice of the OP in this very thread, maybe people will do it less xD.
Once again you skip over solo vs. swf, but in any event, if you followed the trajectory on the game you'd know that killer gets preferential treatment. SWF was introduced because of 'lobby wars' at release and killers have been getting buffed ever since. Furthermore, just look at almost every dlc = new unique killer, reskinned survivor, all there marketing is around killers, survivor is a sideshow to that process.
All of your arguments are pretty much invalid because the devs said so themselves, those stats cannot be accounted for balance. If survivors actually tryharded instead of derping around, if they actually played optimal then these killrates would be WAY lower.
A good survivor will at least take a minute to go down unless there's no more ressources left or he's facing a nurse/billy in the open or a good spirit, it's a fact that has been done to death by the depip squad (and yes, they made a new video even after all the survivor nerfs".
Let's face it, killers will tryhard most of the time because that's the only thing they can do, it's 1v4, they have nobody to talk to while it's very rare to find a really optimal team that plays it absolutely boring and incredibly safe.
Otherwise if we take your metric then killers would be ridiculously broken and for some reason devs keep nerfing survivors even tho they're 80% of the playerbase literally while also accounting for most cosmetics. Which makes 0 sense, so from this standpoint alone the balance currently is in favour of survivors still.
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@Babyyy_Boyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1358332#Comment_1358332
Yup but the devs don’t care. Kinda sad tbh. People are screaming for buffs on these forums but don’t realize that he can literally tunnel someone out of the game.
Dont step into his torment.
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@burntFuse said:
I love that a power that puts survivors on a hook on the opposite end of the map from the killer is still considered a tunneling incentive. Just be honest, tunneling happens because it's just a good strategy for any killer. Getting a hook after one hit is better than two, and having three survivors on the map is easier than four.
Survivormains be like: "If I get downed 2 times in a row it's tunneling!"
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359756#Comment_1359756
I get instant games as a survivor so, dunno where you get 'insane queue times' from unless you mean insane quick, also you failed to distinguish solo vs swf. Swf is what prompted the changes due to the devs metric (2 kills, 2 escapes) at shortly after release. The amusing thing for me is that from the Nov. stats killers are up around 70% kills, yet still find time to whine about 'how hard' it is, for those 'poor killers'. :(
'killers are easy and fun right?' yea generally, I don't have problems pipping and generally only have problems when against the swf flashlight claudette types.
a) only freddy has a 70% killrate.
b) ranks weren't taken into account, esp with many survivors not playing optimally and derping around with friends, trying to unhook in endgame against NOED etc etc you like to leave out the part of "don't take those statistics as some form of balance statement".
c) This game has a massive amount of suiciders and disconnecters which heavily skews the statistics thus making them unreliable at best. Yeah there's afk-wraiths but those are few and far between while you have a ######### ton of survivors that just try derpy ######### and don't last even 20 seconds in a chase, a time that would require you to only hold W without using up any resources against most killers.
Heaviest survivornerfs were basically made in a time where killers gave up on this game (myself included btw), Palletvacuums, Pallet-count nerf (somewhat reverted), Flashlight instasaves and removal of fastvault at every situation.
Nerfs that would be required to make the game fun for everybody would be nerfs targetted towards the 10% of topl-players, in other words survivor hitboxes need to be looked at during loops and killer acceleration needs to be made instantaneuous while making pallets way more safe than what many of the current ones are for casualplayers, deathtraps. If survivors couldn't run around a killer for a minute anymore then we could look at camping/tunneling BASELINE solutions and incentives, not friggin perks.
The devs need to make up their mind and stop catering to ppl who play this game for a living and make it into a party-game (as initially intended by the way). And they need to stop trying to fix every issue with perks and/or killers.
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@femotek820 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359800#Comment_1359800
Sorry, but I know when I play against a xxxxxxx killer in the first hook. They’re so tunnelers and campers. In ranks 5-9 they’re about 25% of my matches. In 5-1 about 10%
Yeah I call BS unless you play SWF with open profile or you teabag or run godloops in which case I can fully understand the killer. Doesn't happen to me, I don't play much anymore but there's not much difference between red and purple ranks and I easily reach purple.
Got into a game after 5 minutes just to have 1 guy DC because the killer was doc. I'm done for today lol.
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@femotek820 said:
Surely devs don”t play in european servers. Killers of a very big country are 99.99% campers and tunnelers. Don”t promote these killers.
If you wanna camp there's bubba, also survivormains call everything tunneling that isn't tunneling. I play on eu and tunnels/camps rarely happen even with twitch.tv in my name.
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@Customapple0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359709#Comment_1359709
This game isn’t a league so you can’t really draw comparisons.
Even when losing the loser has to feel that they have been fairly beat.
Imagine what Killer players felt with the old Syringe and Brand new Part. If we go by your advice of “losing isn’t supposed to be fun” then those would have been left untouched.
No they wouldn't have because the killer only has an equivalent in objective progression through addons in the form of ultra-rares (most killers dont) or moris, it was a question of balance to remove/nerf them, not a question of fun. Because technically speaking 4 people had fun at the expense of 1 person due to excessive bullying that those items made possible.
Btw still sitting in that survivorqueue, had to suicide a 300ms ping game after 10 mins of waiting if you wanna count that.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359730#Comment_1359730
Ooooh, you want it bad don't you xD
So long as were talking 'continuous changes' lets start from release. Because if we do we see that survivor has been nerfed more relative to killer. Meaning, killer is easier now, then any point at release.
That's before hook swivel fyi
That's because survivors were outright absolutely broken to a point where a killer could not legitimately catch you at an insane amount of spots on the maps and are to this day the power role except for a few exceptions when it comes to killers (nurse, spirit)
btw I switched to Dead By daylight when I want to get ######### done at home due to the queuetimes for survivors, but killers are easy and fun right? That's why survivors have insane queuetimes.
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@Customapple0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359510#Comment_1359510
How are they unhealthy for the game? If anything the tunnelling /camping is unhealthy.
Imagine being a new player and having the killer camp you or target you after you are unhooked. That’s not exactly fun.
They aren’t the undeniable meta. But survivors are somewhat forced to run them to counter the unsavoury play styles. Yes they are open to abuse which gives them a bad name but without them the survivor experience would be a lot less fun.
So? Losing is not fun, the devs need to stop to try to cater to this mentality.
When I play league, do my opponents have fun losing? No. Do I have fun losing? No You can't balance a game around fun because a) entirely subjective and b) the losing side is not gonna have fun typically.
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Nerf Pyramid, then people complain about the next best killer like freddy and billy, then nerf every killer to a level where it doesn't matter which one you'll play because you might as well put all of them in a clowncostume. If a char doesn't have an opressive ability then there's no point to playing him.
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The post just shows how unhealthy these perks are for the game, they are undeniable meta and kill any variety. Nothing beats having an extra-hookstate basically.
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@DrDeepwound said:
ah, that moment their crutch perks stop working.
They work against every other killer, almost got suckered in and bought pyramid head because no DS was very tempting but then I remembered: There's still alot of second chance cheese and he might also get nerfed.
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@EldritchElise87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1356719#Comment_1356719
That's what it feels like tbh. Can only really use the ability on a guaranteed hit.
Guaranteed down
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1356630#Comment_1356630
Recovery from his ranged attack increased to 3.25 seconds (up from 2.75). Feels slower in general
That would be a PRETTY harsh nerf, everytime you miss a survivor could get away
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1356606#Comment_1356606
what did they nerf?
He's probably talking about the onehit nerf that was basically a bug in the first place.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1339369#Comment_1339369
There's a large difference between good and players with any killer, but it doesn't change the fact that anyone can pick up Freddy and 4K on one of their first games as him. I used the splinters after he got reworked and I 4K 5-gen. Splinters leave you without any perks, offerings, or add-ons, meaning I was bare. That's how braindead of a killer he is.
That doesn't mean he's braindead that just means he's powerful. What can a wraith do what a freddy cannot during the game that would make him a higher skillcap? Wraith hits you, cloaks then looks for another player or maybe chases after you if you feel save, other than that he just M1s you like freddy. The difference is that freddy has mapwide pressure with his teleport through either teleporting or faking it. You can do tons of mindgames with his teleport even during a chase.
Also a reminder that a loop against freddy is how the game was meant to be played without the exploit that is looping pallets/cutting corners as a surv at max efficiency.
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@HollowsGrief said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343758#Comment_1343758
They Already have that, it's a third party program that lets them know the killer a head of the match starting. Ever wonder why anytime you play Spirit that there are always 3-4 iron wills but never on other killers?
That sounds bannable
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@BlueFang said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1340626#Comment_1340626
Agreed I had a lot more fun (even if it was stressful at times no lie) when survivors were really going after you. Where you had to be devious sometimes to pull a fast one on them and it was satisfying as heck! I mean you can't expect survivors to bow down before the killer if you play the game long enough even if you are a scardey cat you are going to realize its just a PVP game with a horror skin. And so PVP players will do what PVP players do which is fight
Too many players have adopted the belief that if survivors feel confident they have to be nerfed and in some areas at the time, yes. But a game that continually punishes people for being proactive and engaging with the other players in the lobby, that's not beneficial. DBD has to strike the balance and it has come close many times
If the community can't get past the factionalized talking points and agree on stuff then the developers will no longer have these torn sections of the playerbase they have to appease.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1340645#Comment_1340645
TLDR? I already did a TLDR!
https://i.imgflip.com/345ndv.png
jk
I would've simply made the game casual friendlier and removed the dumb skill ceiling.
Survivors are not faster than killers during loops.
Ruin nerfed to it's current state.
Easier to save during pickup (Palletstun/Blind, no timing required). Way more pallets but very unsafe ones that require you to actually hit the stun, stuntime increased to 4 seconds.
Absolutely no more infinites or huge timewasters.
All walls are not seethrough.
All those changes should've gone at 1 time so ppl wouldn't reviewbomb as hard.
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@BlueFang said:
The time crunch meta exists because survivors are able to play effectively way to easily due to communication.
The Time Crunch meta exists with or without SWF communication. All optimized SWFs do is exacerbate the issue further, they are not the cause of it.
Gens used to go slower because everybody and his mom tried to bully the killer, now flashlights got nerfed, palletstunning is harder and chases are harder due to losing palet vacuum so more ppl went to holding m1.
You cannot assume everyone that played survivor wanted to bully the killer, you are taking the toxic crowd and stretching it out to affect the entire population. You come close to grasping one of fault lines that led to this but you muck it up with your biased view-point
The Time Crunch meta that exists right now is because killers in general are getting buffed to be even viable
And perk nerfs, pallet quantity nerfs, more killer sided maps, item nerfs, etc. I still can't understand why yall have such an obsession with flashlights, yeah they can be strong. But the insta-heals and other things were much stronger what's more is the flashlight required the survivor to be in the position to use it.
Also pallet vacuum? Dude that thing's been gone for years now and the sandbox it was in bares very little resemblance to our current meta sandbox. Have you been watching Tydetime videos?
I'm not saying anything but that kind of mentality is something that he tends to express a lot
You're just assuming but bullying the killer in my opinion is just playing the game for fun, I enjoyed those games as a killer way more than the efficient gameplay right now (well except for BS pallet vacuums), I'd even make flashlightsaves and palletstunsaves way easier than they are right now to incentivize other gameplay again.
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@metalklok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1339376#Comment_1339376
otz just uploaded a video where he downed two guys and tried to pick them up and they both ds'd him, sure you can just slug and wait it out but this also punishes the killer for doing good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CdIwSJRjFE its around min 2 if anyone wants to see
Fair balanced and fun. In this case DS was not only a free escape but also a free unbreakable.
How anybody thinks such a perk should be able to be stacked 4 times in a team is beyond me in a 1v4 game. Killers have nothing close to as powerful as this, imagine killers getting the equivalent of sprint burst or deadhard, geez ppl would be crying their eyes out.
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@BlueFang said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1338751#Comment_1338751
It depends on the SWF's team composition and the player behind the Freddy. Giving a blanket statement "SWFs hard counter Freddy and he has no chance everytime" is a far cry from reality. And why shouldn't we talk about weaker killers? By ignoring them and only focusing on what I presume you mean, It is ignoring a very large percentage of my argument and further fuels the Time Crunch meta
This is no longer a series of isolated events this is something that affects the entire game and can't be beaten by throwing a blanket nerf or buff over gameplay mechanics
The time crunch meta exists because survivors are able to play effectively way to easily due to communication. In a normal scenario where up to 3 other ppl would go for a save a SWF can coordinate that which already saves a ######### ton of time. The Time Crunch meta that exists right now is because killers in general are getting buffed to be even viable, ppl cannot dick around anymore unless the killer is waaay below their league but in essence nothing changed for killers. Games went longer before yeah but that's because killers weren't a real threat if they got outclassed even if survivors ######### up hard due to many safety nets.
Gens used to go slower because everybody and his mom tried to bully the killer, now flashlights got nerfed, palletstunning is harder and chases are harder due to losing palet vacuum so more ppl went to holding m1.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1336543#Comment_1336543
The post is meant to say that one killer is more powerful than the other when they both have the same abilities.
I would also like to point out that Freddy doesn't take any practice to play well.
Freddy is still harder than Killers like Wraith, the only difference is that freddy doesn't have to guess loops after the first run, it's still better to not rely on having to run a loop once till the survivor runs into a trap so yes, there's alot of difference between a good and a bad freddy.
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DS is essentially a free hook healthstate for 60 seconds, times 4. The strongest thing that killers would have would be exposed Perks like Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds but those are countered way easier and way less time consuming.
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If you are consistently able to pull of 20sec chases per hit then selfcare is good. You wasted 20 seconds of the killers time, you selfcare up and you're healthy again to do whatever without needing a teammate while your team essentially gained a 60 second advantage if all are still alive.
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1336384#Comment_1336384
First I want to commend you on staying away from breaking down and starting an argument or calling people out.
Secondly I see the bigger picture myself as I do not have a bias towards either role and the point you are getting at is not focused towards either role. From the scattered replies I've read it seems most people seem to be trying to defend killer/survivors points rather than seeing that what your saying is "X and Y are the reasons everyone needs to run "meta builds" because X and Y can destroy you if you don't (on average)."
The game discourages playing fun/gimmick builds (on average) because power spikes exist on both sides. Perhaps you decided to try a new gimmick build but ran into 4 games of "Meta Spirits". Sure you have a chance of escape but you most likely get destroyed and its discouraging to say the least.
Perhaps you want to play Jumpscare Myers but you get matched against SWF teams and your build is pretty much countered from the start.
Its discouraging when the discrepancy in a match can go from 0-100 and in order to feel like you are getting the most of out your time must resort to using "meta builds".
This is NOT saying people cannot win matches against "meta builds" with "gimmick builds" but that you run the risk of wasting your time, items/add-ons and fun going against other players trying their hardest. I believe this boils down to rank being the only option and that both "casual" and "competitive" players are all forced to play together.
(If I am wrong in my assessment of what you were saying please let me know. While I wish more people got their minds into the issues of DBD at large and stopped focusing on "Killer vs Survivor" issues, its unlikely to change anytime soon.)
Except the issue is you don't need a metabuild against fredster, he only destroys you if you derp around and don't play optimal (follow the killer around, try plays and have fun instead of focusing on objective) but that's the case for many killers in this game.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1335421#Comment_1335421
The post is comparing Demo-who is a good killer that suffers from time constraints-to Freddy-who essentially has the same primary ability as Demo, but is marginals above him in terms of power.
Demo is too weak should be the point of this thread, instead it's "freddy is too strong for being one of the only viable killers in this game that doesn't take 100s of hours to play well as"
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@NepalibyDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1336238#Comment_1336238
Survivor hitboxes? If anything it is easier right now to hit a survivor than it would be later because of how awful the servers are and the clientside hit detection. Killers have the advantage right now with hits. The only thing that isn't in their hands is server side detection for grabs. He is easy mode and that is why when other peoplea re bringing up top tier killers they say those ones are balanced. Why? Because despite their strengths they also have drawbacks. If it takes you 40s due to hitboxes you aren't doing really good at killer to begin with lol... I could understand loops. Some of the variations got insane loop next to eachother. I had I think the plague map and there were 3-4 long pallet loops next to eachother.
40 seconds is a normal chase time on healthy survivors for most non-stealth m1 killers unless the survivor tries to do stupid ######### or is really really greedy, unless you now think ppl like zubatlel somehow become "bad" once they take m1 killers.
I'm not counting chasetime as "during" chase but also when personally knowing who you're after. Also survivorhitboxes are smaller than killerhitboxes, I'm not talking about actually landing hits on survivors but how killers lose their speedadvantage that they're designed to have during many loops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DV2fgOfoI
For example chase starts at 22 but it still almost takes him 30 seconds to down her even tho she basically used no resources and completely ######### up the entire chase by being greedy, mind you that is no pallets used, no loops done and only a small distance gained, if she had just ran away in a straight line after the first hit the chase would've been even longer, that's how bad she played. After that you can count up to 10 seconds to hook somebody and bam, 40 seconds for a single hook even when a survivor is a complete potato on an M1 killer, that's 3 half done gens without even calculating the time it takes him to find the others afterwards.
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@Sylorknag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1336315#Comment_1336315
Humm. Perhaps because the whole premise of the game is that 4 people must work together to beat 1 single more powerful opponent.
Hell, that's the whole problem of the game. At the moment, a good survivor is way stronger than the killer with the amount of resources they have; strong loops on top of second broken chance perks.
Ontop of after the freddy patch consistently having 20+ pallets on the map of which many are still very very safe.
Heck I remember that some JUNGLEGYMS had 2(!) pallets altho that was a bug and fixed but it took them ages.
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@BlueFang said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1336202#Comment_1336202
If you could go through that entire post and only come up with "He must want to nerf Freddy" you need to re-read
Freddy is a symptom of a much larger issue which is Time-Crunch if we "have" to apply so many benefits to a killer then we can no longer the core issue within the game, and it needs to be addressed soon before damage is inflicted. Both killers and survivors suffer from mistakes and bad plays tremendously now if the survivors finish 2 gens before one survivor is downed the killer's chances of winning drop dramatically likewise if the killer gets two survivors downed in quick succession especially before the 3rd gen his chances of winning skyrocket. The more killers are made to perform in a fast-paced setting the more it forces survivors to do the same. Sabo builds, loot builds, stealth-ish builds, none of these are viable against a Freddy running a full meta build. The Time-Crunch has homogenized the game's variety, forced both sides into a stressful environment, and is taking away from the core gameplay. Which used to be about a horror movie esque experience. From the survivor perspective the gameplay loop was running from the killer, breaking line of sight, rescuing friends, pulling off bold maneuvers, and for Killer it used to be about being this intimidating power-house, pulling off mind-games and bettering the chase as well
Now for survivor its become holding M1 on a generator as hard as you can, hoping your team doesn't completely screw up (even more than before). For Killer its much the same there's no enjoying a long chase, a breather between it because the game's gone from that to "I have to get hooks, oh for pete's sake I need a hook now"
If the core gameplay loop can no longer be enjoyed to its max because of the time-crunch it has to be addressed. Adding in casually easy mode killers such as Freddy DO NOT change the game for the better. It only makes that mold more concrete and makes the issue more prevalent they don't make the game slower they don't improve the base flow. This is what needs to change about BHVR's current balancing agenda stop targeting symptoms, exacerbating symptoms especially needs to stop the actual problem needs to be addressed
Essentially still complaining about freddy being ezmode and too strong no matter how you wrap it and how much you talk around it.
Freddy is NOT easymode, he's how every killer should be if devs finally fix survivor hitboxes so they can't loop us for 40+ secs anymore on other killers.
If you just focus on gens freddy will still most likely just get a 2k because it takes at least 40 seconds to down and hook somebody who isn't a complete potato and tries to be overly greedy.
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Much of what OP Is saying "nerf freddy" when in reality freddy is the only good killer that you can reliably 3k with without sweating your butts off. All killers should be as powerful as him.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1330619#Comment_1330619
True. It can be harder for killers that actually have to chase. I don't really need to chase as GF. It's super easy to just do hit and runs and bother everyone to keep up the pressure. I rarely have a game where a gen pops before I get a hook. Obviously there are those games where people just hold m1 on 3 different gens and they all pop at once while you mess around with their friend.
Most killers dont have that luxury, its why freddy is so strong. he doesn't lose time after he commited for a single hit, after that single hit he can just teleport to a gen. With a normal killer and no sloppy even selfcare is better than what ppl account for because it takes like what...24 secs to heal yourself after you wasted the killers time for AT LEAST 20 seconds while you still have teammates?
I mean the game where scottjund played against depip squad, did they play optimally? heck no, and he still only got 2 kills out of it while they had no perks no items etc. Yeah the game is different now but I'd digress and say it's gotten easier for survivors with the removal of ruin and having pallets every 8m.
I would love to feel like I won the game because I as a killer was better, but there's always this feeling that "if they just split up I'd probably be ######### after seeing 6 pallets in a straight row".
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1330602#Comment_1330602
Yeah, also most people aren't all that good at the game. Most people aren't going to chase you for more than 20-30 seconds unless they're very good and you can usually tell when they're the chasers of the team so you just go for their teammates first, right?
A chase willl always at least last for 20 seconds unless you play stuff like billy that can instadown ppl at will or nurse that can port right after you.
If you don't last 20 seconds against e.g a legion (total chase time, not measured from first hit) then you literally outplayed yourself by trying to play around a nearby loop instead of going distance.
And if map RNG is in your favour (which it often is btw) then you get matches like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRim0z5SmpQ where it's pallets galore and a normal killer would be absolutely useless against a team that doesn't run around and does whatever instead of just focusing on gens.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1330574#Comment_1330574
Well, if the devs are going for a 2 survivor escape ratio they've done it poorly. It wasn't even that back before they shrunk the maps and got rid of pallets. I seriously doubt it's that now even though they won't release the stats.
Because that accounts for optimal survivorplay. Which doesn't happen that often since people are you know...trying to have fun and derp around.
I tried to do optimal play with friends, let's just say I am never invited into regular SWFs with my "doesn't matter if you die we will escape" or "just le me die and escape" attitude.
If one half your playerbase isn't taking the game seriously most of the time then stats mean nothing.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1330088#Comment_1330088
I don't use NOED for two reasons. It would rarely proc for me and because it's a crutch perk that rewards killers for not playing well. That's all it does. You can't expect survivors to do 5 gens and all the bones within the time it takes for one person to die on hook. There's just not the time for it. Survivor takes 2 minutes to die on hook. Takes 80 seconds if everyone does a gen and it takes 14 seconds per totem plus the time to find all the totems. No good killer uses NOED because NOED will only help killers who aren't playing well.
You haven't understood the basis of this game it seems.
The game is designed in a way where all gens WILL pop unless the survivors ROYALLY screw up. Mathematically alone survivors will be able to do all gens unless they derp around or don't last more than 20 seconds in a chase which only happens agaisnt hightier killers that are able to effectively counter loops or instadown and punish hard mistakes.
The devs designed this game around 2 people escaping which is why the gentime is so low, even getting a single hook should always cost you about 1 gen if you calculate chasetime at full resources+finding ppl+hooking them.
You should never be able to 4k survivors who go by the following basics:
Run as far away from still active gens
Don't run to teammates
Do gens and do bones
Don't be overly altruistic
Depip squad did an experiment on this and yeah, those were great players but you don't have to be a great player to hold m1. The main issue is that you will mostly win because holding m1 is boring as hell and doesn't make you pip.
Most kills in this game you get is because of altruism, that's not you being good, that's people trying to have fun while you have to sweat.
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@Kolonite said:
NOED. Kinda cringe homie...
Do bones, there, no NOED.
Some of the best killers in this game use NOED, the ones who don't are sheep that care about peer pressure.
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@Gonourakuto said:
This is the most unfun boring thing i have played in a long time and i have played this game since it came out , i legit rather DC and get banned for hours on end than face this crap how is spending a 30 min game because everything become so slow while also being wounded the all time is seeing as balanced or fun ?
PS : to all the hypocrite killers who are gonna be like "legion is bad get gut" "thana on legion is useless" ectect pls shut your nonse sense i am done with your mindless antics 90 % the forums post are just killers whinning about the smallest thing all the time , don't come comment on my post only to say that "OP = balance" without any true reason as to why its even reasonable to have a killer that can slow the game so much while also having everyone wounded in it with no actually drawback
Thana makes gens go like...8 sec slower which is absolutely nothing.