Unusedkillername
Unusedkillername
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717874#Comment_3717874
Being anonymous in a game to do whatever is not even close to be compared to actually using the game's assets for racism acts
Not even close
Also, you should consider that anonymous players are more likely call you racist things in the endgame chat so it actually is pretty close dude
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717874#Comment_3717874
Being anonymous in a game to do whatever is not even close to be compared to actually using the game's assets for racism acts
Not even close
Its not the point its the principle of the point. Even if the few are ruining it you need to bite the bullet.
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It doesn't matter that they are a minority of anon players we are not bringing back Bubba's original survivor masks just because a minority of players ruined that as well.
Anon players have an awful reputation for a reason, it just makes the game worse so it should be binned.
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@Rudjohns said:
BHVR already said multiple times that the in-game report is enough for anonymous mode
Just record a video and send the report via website when is possible
There's no need for you to see their Steam profileBesides, if you are playing on Steam you can only see Steam profiles, like you mentioned, so what happens if the player is in another console? You won't be able to see their profile anyway, so it doesn't matter
Anonymous mode needs to stay, and people use it for a reasonThat doesn't matter the majority of players that use cheats, exploits, hold hostage game, and generally play in a way that should not be endorsed use anon mode and they are emboldened by said anon mode.
The 2 biggest reasons it's there is to protect streamers so they can avoid being sniped but there is no consensus among streamers it makes the game better so what is the point? The other is to protect people from getting salty -reps and messages on console but if anyone gets so bent out of shape over what people think of an online identity that will likely never be remembered past 3 hours they can no longer play the game they just should not play it they need to go outside and touch grass tbh.
Why are we making game more comfortable for the types of players that should they leave the game will not be missed just so an extreme minority that both want and need an anon mode can have it? Bluntly it just makes the game worse and the reputation of anon players proves it so why keep it.
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The day after Sable Ward came out and everyone was using her invocation I renamed by account Sable Hunter ran territorial imperative on Bubba and basement camped everyone who went into the basement for a day.
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You do not need to read the whole post its not as long as it seems I just wrote all my responses to other posts as one post
@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
The thing is people will cry "but M1 killers" and the devs are hearing that out. Meanwhile anything "but SoloQ" falls on deaf ears.
Neither can be catered for and neither of these complaints are falling on deaf ears, to be honest.
Killer is easier than it's ever been and the reason you can stack multiple effective slowdowns is not for the sake of players picking A-tier killers is for the players who refuse to play good characters and then get annoyed they are at a disadvantage. Lets be real.
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
So whats something not changed due to solo'Q? I'd be down for hearing some ideas tbh. BHVR isnt doing anything so this cant hurt.
Its impossible to name things that are not changed because we are not inside BHVR what I am mostly talking about is what players say when you talk about nerfing perks like windows of opportunity or adrenaline even perks like DS because it's an anti-tunnel perk it's more important for solo Q players because randoms won't body block many keep saying.
Suggest to survivors that something needs to be nerfed and you will always see a few comments saying "what about solo Q" My general answer to that is so what? There are good ways to help solo Q players the hud changes allowing you to see what your teammates are doing is great and the game is much better with them but when it comes to balancing nothing that's strong should not be nerfed because it good for solo q in the same way we are not going to buff stuff like prove thyself to be better with solo q.
@Nazzzak said:
Because solo queue makes up the fast majority of the survivor base. I'm sure someone else will have the numbers but one of the devs once put 4man swfs at like 3% of the survivor base. With trios slightly higher, and duos a bit higher than that. So saying solo queue players "aren't needed in the game" is a pretty big take. Not to mention alot of people play both roles, so if the solo survivor experience gets increasingly worse and a bunch of players leave the game, then they've potentially lost killers too.
Every type of player is needed but people act like solo q players will leave the game in droves and we will have an overwatch situation kinda like your post is insinuating
By overwatch situation I mean
Overwatch had 3 roles Tank, DPS, Support in overwatch 1 dps having over 10-15 minute ques at the most populated ranks while tanks have 30 seconds was the standard
I know your not talking in that extreme a way and im struggling to explain what i mean in text but I hope you can understand where im coming from.
I know we will never have the same situation because DBD will always priorities que times but hear me out
The real situation I think dbd is in is we lack mid-tier killer players and have an excess of strong killer players. It's why I think despite having a mmr system because Q times are printed lots of very strong killers are put in lobbies they will easily stomp as their is not enough mid-skill level killers to match most mid-skill level survivors and it is why these really long killer win streaks are way more common and easy than survivor win streaks even when the suvs are a 4 stack eliminating the random element.
Although its anecdotal evidence the reason i have came to this conclusion is I know a player under 400 hours and I have 2200 and I have seen him get matched with the same survivors I had earlier in the day. This is where all these posts about being bullied come from and these players just leave and therefore theirs not enough mid tier killers and it becomes easier for high tier killers to roll more games and so on.
I honestly think after a couple of hundred hours it becomes sink or swim for some killers and the sinking players leave the game while the swimmers and for the long-term health of the game
If I had to quantify it I think the priority that players should come in is
1-Mid skill level killers
2-Strong skill level survivors (to match the overinflated amount of strong killers)
3-Brand new players on both sides
4-Average level survivors
5-Strong level killers
Most solo q players are in the 4th category and ones in 2nd don't need the help
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BREAKING NEWS S TIER PERK GOES DOWN TO S TIER LETS SEE HOW THE COMMUNITY REACTS
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@Valyrie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709325#Comment_3709325
Why should we be catering the character balance towards just new players, or fans who think he's fine? A lot of your argument for not changing him relies purely on anecdotal and pointing out there's other, worse, issues. However this is a forum, where multiple things can be discussed at once, and I am catering my thread to something I think needs spiced up to modern DBD standards.
Newer players are not where the discussion for character balance ends, nor fans. I know plenty of Halloween fans who play DBD that also wish Michael was a higher tier killer, or at least not bottom of the barrel. Does their input not count? They're also fans, they should get a say in it as well.
Nobody wants their fav/main to be D tier and weak, I'm in a similar boat with Sadako atm. She's cool, she's faithful, but I want her to be more than an M1 killer with an easy to counter gimmick, Michael should get the same respect imo.
Newer players are where Michaels's relevance ends. He is clearly a character made for them with them in mind.
Not every licensed character can be good. Hell not every character can be and its fine for characters to be really trash as long as they are fulfilling a role while doing so, that can be offering a unique playstyle like Trapper or going full fanservice like Michael.
To be blunt he fulfills his role in the roster perfectly, id argue the only way to make him better would be by allowing him to play the game at a faster pace kinda like how @ArkInk s post recommends buffing his first tier which does compromise a little on what he is supposed to be. imo
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I have so many but I'm cutting it down to a sample
-The devs deserve no criticism for bad changes on PTBs that don't make it through. We all react to stupid changes when we hear them but just by using the PTB properly they are better than a lot of other game devs and I think I and a lot of people here probably should acknowledge that.
-The average killer player is significantly better at the game than the average survivor party because they are not spending 75% of their games doing gens partly just because suv attracts worse players because they don't shoulder all the responsibility for their team while for bad killers its sink or swim get better or get bullied.
-If you are consistently playing weak easy killers with bad builds and then complaining about SWFs stomping you get over it and play something better you knew you were queuing up for a chance this may happen.
-Solo Q is not as bad as most of the community makes it out to be, yea its better to be stacked but I've seen players say that nerfing some broken perks would be the death of Solo Q and I don't think we can just pander to all the solo q only suvs and have a healthy game at the same time
-also, most people who cry about their solo q teammates need to get over themselves and accept that they are going to play with both better and worse players than themselves when they Q up.
-This game has always been survivor sided and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong. But this is ok because survivors need to play with each other in mind killers just need to lean forward and lock it in to compete.
-Sending the killer to maps that are broken as a survivor and then abusing it with broken builds so the killer can do very little is the equivalent of the killer running a broken killer with a full meta build and making it so the survivors have no agency.
-The existence of the hook system and basement shows that camping is inherently part of DBD so deal with it
-however I would be fine if the basement did not exist.
-Most players that cry about techs just do it because they can't perform them, nobody wants to see things like window techs/CJ techs or most of Wesker's techs removed from the game so outside of the egregious stuff where you have to mess with your DPI or framerate none should be touched and some players should bet told git gud.
-Pretty much no killers need any base kit balancing most of the issues with some killers come from individual add-ons.
-Pop and Pain res are way too strong and should be massively nerfed. We cannot expect to see any form of perk variety when every killer is running one of them I don't care if it hurts for a while the game has been balanced on the assumption they are being run and it sucks.
-Also even then regression perks should have a system like exhaustion to prevent them from being stacked forever.
-DS never needed its recent buff. It was hard meta for years and DS being a shadow of its former self after all of its nerfs was still way better than 90% of the perks available the people complaining about it being useless were just bad.
-Exhaustion perks are OP, there is a reason every good build has one forced in.
-I don't care about other players using filters to get an edge and people complaining about them should just get over it. They still got to chase and down me or run me for x amount of time. Good luck with that :)
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708834#Comment_3708834
Michael can stay faithful to his identity as a character without comprising his competitive viability. There are a number of ways to add to his kit that keeps his core power intact.
Thats true, but reworks should only be for things that need it because whenever you rework a character you are likely going to be changing it for people the way it already is.
Michael doesn't need it to do what the character is trying to do for fans of his franchise and he is not something that most people have a problem facing. Not only are there bigger fish to fry but Michael is not really a problem and from what I know is quite liked by a lot of newer players so I don't think he should be changed.
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Tunneling has not changed. People have just stopped complaining because it would make them look silly because Scott Jund made a video, he was right, and suddenly the community's consensus shifted (this is a pattern, one DBD content creator says something then half of the community shifts their opinion to agree because if they dont they will look silly)
It was never a massive issue people just needed something to blame because they were bad and blaming other players is always an easy thing to do.
Because of the way everyone is now getting concerned with how bad it is to solo que survivor I'm predicting a lot more players are going to start blaming their random teammates when they lose because calling the killer a tunneler is going out of fashion.
Watch this space
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Michael does not need a rework
He is awful and a bottom-tier character that the game has left behind… and that is ok he is a licensed character that perfectly fulfils the fantasy that is playing as Michael Myers for fans of the Halloween franchise. I recently had a friend who's a fan of Halloween get into the game and when he did they kept saying how much he loved him, and BHVR did him justice, and how his power was perfect for the character.
If a licensed character is not trying to be a good character but is trying to do right by the character as long as its not a pain for regular players to play against and harmful to the game's health then I'm fine with them being trash.
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Rubberbanding everywhere, every action feels a bit off like hooking and kicking gens its just been awful
Edit: here is a sample of how bad it can be
https://youtu.be/HnB7JjW7m0Y -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705675#Comment_3705675
One thing I found in comp was that games become almost scripted when you play against the same 50 players in a region on the same maps with the same loadouts. Players can often struggle to adapt on the fly when things go off-script, as we saw with both the NA and JP side. For instance, the NA players rarely play public matches and rely heavily on call outs, so they were completely thrown off by the lack of TR.
I feel like this happens with every game that has an insular comp scene and it's why I really want a ranked mode even if it will never happen because so much will have to be regulated and banned and a visual MMR system for each killer would be wonky ect.
It's why I don't try to get into comp scenes in games where they are community self-regulated and run in private discords and that's a shame because normally if there is ever a ranked mode in a game I will never Que the casual mode ever again but BHVR cant please everyone and i guess I'm one of the bullet biters and that's fine.
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No, he just gets significantly better than most killers when you play him harshly as his TPs and 3 gen potential with that/ his ability to deal with bad gen spread/ability to drop chases without too much punish frequently and his infect on unhook make him very strong when played to win.
The only thing is he's a killer that forces you to play so much around dbds "Macro game" too see success against good players because unlike the bad killers whos powers don't lean into helping them deal with that part of the game and have to just suffer it he has the tools to be played like alien has with his tunnels and antiloop, Unknows not as good as alien but this put him to at least B tier and probably low A.
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Twins, Singularity, Hag, Trapper, Cenobite
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705390#Comment_3705390
I only saw snippets and the match on The Game was rather embarassing. An argument can be made, that Elysium played at a disadvantage because the Japanese killer had a very high ping but my god some of their decisions in that game made them look like a bunch of complete beginners.The Game is apparently a map more frequently played in Asian comp matches and that was one of the games they won. I think the idea was that the deadzones weren't nearly as important as breaking up the 3 gen. By spreading out and healing it also meant every time Legion went into his power he could tag one of them, then had to drop out which ate up time.
Also the fact that Hens was worried that the Western survivors might not complete a single gen when it was there turn during the game was pretty amazing (they ended up finishing 3 I think).
that Elysium played at a disadvantage because the Japanese killer had a very high pingThat was true for both sides. Gathering players from around the world is going to always create ping problems.
In fact, if anything it favored the Japanese because their rules were used.They did play games on both rule sets.
The Game is apparently a map more frequently played in Asian comp matches and that was one of the games they won.This same thing happened when the Western players tore the Asian players apart on Dead Dawg Saloon Wraith.
I think the more something was played in each region's comp settings the greater the chance of them winning was because what is meta is not that different. It is just kind of like how self-care was used on the game the perks are often used as an answer to the problems the other side presents as i think the Western players would have had a much better time on Gideon with the Asian players builds and if wraith dead dawg was often a comp map pick in Asia they would have played better in that game.
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If I win and its not against players significantly worse than me or when I laugh because of something humorous.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704501#Comment_3704501
Is there an issue with those perks individually, or do you mean their synergy with other perks? I know BU+FTP, BP+FB, and DMS+GE are complained about, but I don't see alot of complaints about them on their own.
BHVR seem to be okay with perk synergies, at least until it has a noticeable negative impact on gameplay (ie the gen kick meta, that led to Incapacitated being all but removed, plus the 3 gen mechanic). Their response to GE+DMS was that they're taking a wait and see approach, and I assume they do that with other synergies. Ultimately they have the means to break synergies that are having a large negative effect on gameplay, so I'm still keen to see them focus more on buffing bad perks but I do understand your concerns.
Honestly, it doesn't matter how perks are individually they need to be treated and how they are used at their strongest when deciding to nerf them otherwise they will be dominant forever unless a stronger synergy comes along and you get stuck in the catch-22 situation of deciding whether you want power creep or a stale meta. To have neither you gotta nerf them or break the synergy.
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In my experience, they don't.
The only killers that tunnel more than others are the ones whose actual game mechanics kinda softly push the players playing them into it. Spirit finds it easier to hit already injured survivers, Nemesis has to apply infection for his chase to not 3 hit or M1, blight being able to return to hook and unlike billy he is not an istadown so commiting to a health survivor is often worse than returning (somethimes), deathslinger can wait out off the hook BT better than any other killer while not being about to pressure and so on and on you can probably get the point im making is its not got much to do with the killers strength attracting a certain type of player or anything, I don't see nurse as a tunneling culprit for this reason, it's just some powers encourage it more than other kinda like how in the same way hag and trapper do encourage camping so more of them will camp it's just not to the same degree.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703779#Comment_3703779
I would've placed slinger above huntress before the huntress buffs honestly, his value comes from being really good at the killer and being very consistent. It's alot easier to get better results on other ranged killers.
What makes you think singularity is worse?
Yea honestly clown could go to top of B+ which might be more suiting, I'm not entirely sure but i just think the clown buffs really pushed him over the edge in terms of being ridiculously stupid in chase especially with the right set up (like playing brutal rapid clown)
EMPs when used against singularity turn the game into a slog but it becomes one in the survivor favor. I have had played against stacks that get EMPs before anything else then if you commit to a chase you will get 3 EMP drive-bys every chase and then the only solution i have to that is to 3 gen and force them to burn all the resources in the area even then i think when suvs use the tools that are given to invalidate his power to their maximum potential the game goes so much further in their favour than on other equivalent killers like alien because they can use it every time its needed and there's not much you can do about it.
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The way I understand it anything in the PTB notes not in these is going through.
I think haddonfield is a lost cause of a map. I don't expect it to ever become good.
I am hesitant to judge Blights collision changes until I have played him so idk but I'm fine with the addon changes but id still like to see his Iris changed along with how double speed works. I think you should have to rush for a quarter of a second or something to get the speed on the next rush so he can't just headbutt a wall a few times then zoom at you.
It was nice to see some QOL for the twins but that rework was never going to fly and I do not want to make them hesitant to use the PTB and overcritical experimental changes but we were teased about that rework for so long and it was a wet fart. What a waste.
I don't think DS needed its buff as it's still a good perk in its current state and there are plenty of worse perks around it just seems like its in the same place as Pop where is unacceptable for it to not be an S tier perk. I dont know why some perks are artfically allowed to just outclass everything else its just strange and its why whats good in 2018 is still generally good today if i ran Dead hard, DS, Unbreakable and any of the other perks that often made it into those builds I would still have a powerful build. Sometimes as players I think we accept something being S tier then becoming A tier is fine.
If Ultimate weapon lingers on the location of the locker for a while it would be a funny perk because you wouldn't be able to run to unhook because you can't scream and unhook so it would be a funny way to camp but in all honestly I dont want any killer info perks nerfed ever while the best 4 perks on the killer side are either regression or gen blocking perks. I also think the game is past the point where most people play the game like hide and seek and anything that finds survivers forces chases, my favorite part of dbd and the reason I think most people play the game.
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I agree with almost everything but chucky, demo, clown and singularity.
I think singularity is kinda weak compared to where the community thinks he is, I think clown is just mid tier he seems more at home with the B tier bunch than As tbh, I think chucky is a little overrated because his anti loop but i think getting some pressure going against good surivers can be rough, and i think demo is just a bad killer imo better than the worst but he is where you put wraith for me.
On a side note I like to see slinger getting the credit I think he deserves. I kinda think he's a little underrated by the community i remember seeing a thread where people seemed to be in agreement he was the worst ranged killer but i think hes way better than trickster.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703277#Comment_3703277
I mean, if it does something else of note, please, elucidate me.
I would not say its got nothing to do with gamesence as when you get better at the game how you use it changes but i do think your wrong in how you think its only good if you've got no gamesense.
Because it lets you know exactly what you have at all times to use and most maps are randomly generated and the pallet placements also are. It also becomes better in the hands of better players because they will know everything that's safe first chase and then burn it first and because the earlygame is the most important point even if you burn through pallets very quickly if you are playing it correctly you will most likely win regardless unless some very silly survivor mistakes let the killer stockpile pressure. Against anything but the extremely strong killers it's really too strong (because burning the strongest pallets early and linking them together is more effective against weaker killers like the M1s it also is extremely unhealthy)
I think it's the most misunderstood perk in the game because a lot of people think it is only good for new players as it is an aura perk that teaches you some things at the start but in actuality, it's just straight-up very powerful in the hands of good players.
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The game is in a good state or as good as its ever been. Generally in DBD if there is nothing completely breaking any of the major mechanics its in a good state. The fact buckle up, for the people is the biggest grievance a lot of people have right now speaks volumes about how far this game has come but I don't think its getting better in every way I don't enjoy survivor nearly as much as I use to because a lot of the newer killers I don't enjoy playing against (but ive said this so many times in not elaborating)
This next part is going to be blunt but im not naming anyone nobody needs to take what i say personally but if i am going to give my full opinion not self censored it is…
The Forums are awful its not as bad as stuff like the overwatch forums but DBD has a better community than overwatch so that's to be expected compared to the overall community howver meaning the in-game Playerbase, it's Comp community, the YT community, the Twitch community, Dbds Discord, and Reddit. I think Reddit and the DBD Discord are the only worse places but then again a lot of the players there are new.
You tend to see the same things being posted over and over but that's mostly because if you make a long post about anything outside of what is already considered the consensus it won't go anywhere.
Nobody is willing to type long responses to long posts to talk about the game really you will just see a 2 line response that says you are wrong about 1 of the 6 things you talked about in your post and it will get upvoted 17 times and now people saying "the same things get posted all the time these forums are boring" and I can't stress this enough. So I'm making it bold and splitting it up
LOTS OF YOU FORUM USERS NEVER ENTERTAIN NEW IDEAS SO WHY POST THEM I'VE SLOWED DOWN CREATING NEW THREADS AND NOW I MOSTLY COMMENT. I GUARANTEE OTHERS JUST GIVE UP GIVING THEIR OPINIONS ALTOGETHER.
On a side note you will see people saying that it's just "both sides doing us vs them shenanigans everywhere" and if we are being real these posts are not common and you can tell what they are when reading the title you need to go out your way to see them cmon.
lots of people just refuse to think for themselves and post anything outside the community consensus. Before Scott Jund made a video about tunneling you would see threads about tunneling all the time and even accounts from users that have been around for years talked about it like it was DBDs biggest problem now where are you all im going to smugly say I commented a month ago that tunneling was an overrated issue and it's been gradually decreasing because i will say what i see in the game and not self-censor (i think that much is obvious from this post) but so many players here feel like they are either balancing their opinions based off what others would post or just don't think for themselves.
I honestly think these forums are full of people who all have the same ideas saying the same things over and over again and if anything new is said its not entertained so anyone saying these forums are boring and nothing new is posted needs to understand this forums community creates this situation which means as a forum about DBD it's failing in its purpose because people don't say anything new about DBD or are willing to discuss the game in any form of depth.
Thats my honest take i don't know if it will be taken down but if you want my thoughts about the forums thats it. I'm considering leaving them tbh because i dont see a point in them as they are.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Addons should introduce new ways to play the killer instead of being pick x because it makes the killer playable or pick y because it's makes them very strong
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
Honestly, I think the Hags 115 move speed with no TP or scratch mirror Myers is the type of things addons should be aiming to do even if they may be useless against good players or gimmicky and can create monstrosities like Burger King Myers back in the day. The whole point of addons is to give each killer more variety. Stuff like Stalk faster or Infect players faster or applying random effects on hits are so underwhelming and don't change how you play the killer 9/10 times.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702291#Comment_3702291
Gotta say I never really rated Thana, as a survivor I never think 'oh no the killer has Thana' it is more of a roll of the eyes when I get yet another Thana Legion as it just means a drawn out tedious match most of the time
It's to force suvs to cleanse or tank the 20%. Think of it like this you give the plague corrupt or you are suffering pentimento effect.
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Both are great perks but the shrine is a bit of a scam for 2k each so if you do not plan on spending the money on the killers I'd go for it but if at any point you may buy the killer I'd save the 9k
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@Royval said:
Explain how Skull needs a rework
I'm taking everything from another thread to explain how I use Skull Merchant.
When I play SM and I want to be as ruthless as possible with this "play style"
Discordance (so they cannot stack a gen in my 3 gen without me knowing)
Pain Res (its faster to proc that POP 9/10 times so if you ever have a scourge hook nearby it will allow you to keep your 3 gen easier than pop)
Surge (because you are downing people generally near gens)
Deadlock (In reality most of the time you get 3-4 gens that can be played as a 3 gen and 2 not being able to pop in quick succession with pain res lets me very rarely not be able to force a 3 gen without needing to just rotate around 3 gens at the start of the map when 5 need to be completed)
I refer to the build as the fun police skull merchant.
This terrible diagram explaining how 3 gen on SM circles are drones and red squares are gens as long as you zone them northward to a map edge you will be given a hit or likely a tag into a down then you proxy camp a hood in your 3 gen if you are given a 4 gen or a scourge hook in a 3/4 gen you are set to make the game misery until the gen blockers had enough of your BS.
It is pure misery to play against but ive found its the best way to utilise her power you do not have to strictly adhere to everything but generally the best way to play her is PURE MISERY.The 10 teams I won in a row against a few days ago 3 genning every game seeing the dbd community slowly coming to the conclusion SM is not that bad
Is Skull Merchant the worst killer to play against no
Is the bottom 3 YES YES YES YES YES
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There's no agenda. It's not like these players can't go in 50 to 100 win streaks at any time they want by just playing to win and not giving any mercy or leeway they just want variability in their games.
SBMM has been getting critised in games that want to aim for a casual audience for a while now because devs have been trying to give everyone the impression they are good at the game they are playing. Most people will leave a game or not play it if they are bad, even if the game is a casual game, so obfuscating how good or bad players are in casual games has become common practice and you can't do that with what I call "melting pot matchmaking" because it becomes easy to see that you are not that good if some player in a random lobby goes 27-5 in something like COD.
The consequence of this is casual games end up becoming more competitive over time because Mid-level players will still need to put the work in to beat other Mid-level players and the same goes for low level players against other low level players and players will never play to lose. They may play inefficiently if it's more fun It's the reason why despite how powerful Nurse she doesn't just gain an extra 20% pickrate just for being strong while in a competitive mode in a competitive game that would not be uncommon. Players however won't enjoy just throwing for hours on end the conclusion I can draw from Max Hobermans Twitter thread is that it's not a bad thing to give players a forced variety of experiences in a casual game because it keeps it fresh. While in competitive modes in competitive games people will complain about things like losers que and forced 50-50s forcing tougher and easier games on you at different times that's generally because they want to trust the MMR systems and let their skill do the talking.
The other side effect of SBMM is it has makes it significantly easier for a bigger difference to be made in the game by what items/perks/addons are used and this is what drives down the frequency of meme builds. If you are using a meme build against players significantly worse than you it can work more and on the other side of the coin if the players you played against were significantly better players than you running a meta build would be less likely to make a difference but giving an edge to people near your skill level is a much bigger deal when determining the outcome of a match so as players won't play to lose they won't give that edge so it makes the game feel very samey giving you the same experience when you log on each time. Unlike before SBMM when ranks determined who you faced if I log on today, I will likely get the same experience as yesterday. I don't really want that from DBD what I want is mabye a facecamping bubba who is terrible every 30 or so games and a death-squad every 30 so I can both see how good I really am at times and other times cool off and have a laugh but I don't get that is dbd anymore.
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@Triplehoo said:
No. Tryhards would still play the casual mode
This is the case with every game
I have seen people demanding other players swap in quick play overwatch
People demanding other players play a hardbreacher in casual siege
players tilting at a random Odin for being drunk (he went to the wrong lane at start I asked him in chat why he was drunk funniest player I've seen in a MOBA) in unranked Smite at 3am
and so on and on and on
The difference in DBD is that there's is no ranked mode so you really can't blame them for playing how they do because what else can they do. The Comp DBD scene is really out the way in its own bubble in public discords. The big issue is Que times but I don't see any reason why tryhards still playing casual is a reason not to have a ranked mode it would lessen the amount. I've come around to the idea that if town of salem can have a competitive mode dbd can.
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I love posts like this. Its pure copeium.
Over 2 to 3 ish years ago it was too hot a topic to say out loud but so many things on the suv side of the game were just broken and now we have players trying to adapt to a life post-Small PP build/COH/Old DH/post-conspicuous action and they are having to come to the reality they just are not very good players.
The only part of this post I can agree with is when OP lists "an increase in silent killers, an increase in anti-loop killers, an increase in teleporting killers" as a bad thing because most of the new killers have bloated kits and also suck to play against.
but generally, survivors don't need anything to be stronger or even at the level of what they previously had available to them. It would be nice to see more perks like that are never used be brought up to usability but that's it.
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Tunneling is not nearly as common as it was in the past and I commented on this a month ago in a semi-long rant
I am CTRL C and CTRL Ving my take but fixing the grammar because its relevant.
"This is another nuclear take but camping and tunnelling is nowhere near as out of control as it has been in the past and it has been on a downward trajectory. Its just previously such as when circle of healing was broken or keys could open the hatch it was enforced by really strong things that could be enabled on the survivor end because spreading pressure was less valuable than now because healing and resetting was so fast and killing anyone but the survivor with the key could end it games ending early.
But before it becomes a point that is mentioned you could not opt out of being tunneled by choosing not to run these things because when a player with a key died they dropped it where they were hooked and circle of healing was useable by every survivor so when solo Qing you would run DS and it would proc regularly. Nowadays if you run it you won't see it proc as often simply because people just don't tunnel as much nowadays It has just become the most obvious thing to talk about since the game has gotten better and there is nothing nearly as broken in the game as there was in the past.
Most people I see running full anti-tunnel builds nowadays I see as the zombie apocalypse preppers of dbd top easily influenced by what the community's consensus is on the state of the game and not judging the game for how it really is like at the moment.
The only way in which tunneling and also camping has become more prominent is there are specific points in the games MMR ranges where a lot of people who tunnel and camp end up because they are often getting similar results to eachother so surviver is fun for a while for a player, then they get better at it, then they see more campers and tunnelers until they get better again where they will see less because the vast majority of camping and tunneling killers are just kinda mid players.
This however is not as new as it looks however it also used to happen years ago before MMR was a thing. I used to joke with a friend that every month you would need to climb past the purple ranks again and get facecamped by a bubba on the way."
Most players complaining about being tunnelled all the time just don't understand what tunnelling is or are at the point in the MMR ladder where there is what I call an "old purple rank tunnelling/camping hotspot"
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"Eventually, frustrated players who take constant breaks will leave the game entirely, which leads us back to the title and the beginning of this post."
That's fine if you're not having fun just leaving dbd is fine its a video game.
I know if someone's complaining about the game it doesn't mean they want to leave it or take a break look at me I always leave long negative ranty posts BUT I still enjoy DBD. There are some posts where people just talk not about the game but how they are not enjoying themselves the best thing they can do is leave or take a break. If they don't enjoy the game and they are still clocking thousands of hours and wasting their time doing something they genuinely don't enjoy it's because it's either an addiction or a job and most of these people are not streamers. It may sound harsh but it's true people need to just stop playing at that point.
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@EvilBarney666 said:
Killer "MMR" is shared. Back in the day they said each killer would have individual "MMR" that is clearly not the way it is.
The game says oh you play killer so you need to be higher even tho you never play nurse, who happens to be the hardest killer to play lol.
It feels kinda like a hybrid system.
The way I would best describe it is it feels like a rubber band stretching but whenever it is about to break it drags the lowest killer up a bit for you can't just switch to Trapper to get brand-new suvs.
It feels like the killers have their own mmrs but they affect eachother.
I don't know how it works im not someone who knows how mmr systems work generally but this is how it FEELS.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699696#Comment_3699696
I would assume, if they are doing this intentionally, it's largely an attempt to ensure the stats are viewed correctly- as mildly interesting bits of trivia without much consequential impact.
If they gave us too much of the stuff like number of hooks and number of hatch escapes, people are gonna use them as proof supporting some kind of argument about balance a lot more. I'd still be interested in seeing them, but the effect they'd have on the state of discourse for a while can't be ignored- they wouldn't become anything other than interesting trivia, but people would treat those stats differently anyway.
Kinda but I think that DBDs stats as they are arnt a useful indication of anything anyway and people still are doing this with the stats they released here like this is the most upvoted post on this thread: (im assuming you can see me quoteing sinkra)
@sinkra said:
The devs are clearly happy they made another killer op. Next month they'll post the 80% kill rate for Twins rework and call it a success.
There is no ranked mode and the MMR rubber banding can be quite high we know that because there was a time they made it stricter and games generally felt harder at that point, I took a break because of it. This is important because most people judge how good something is in DBD by how good it is against good players so these stats are kinda worthless.
Hence why I think they should just commit and show everything because we are already seeing people use these skewed stats to argue about balance may as well give them better info to work with if they are going to do it anyway. The alternative is just to stop releasing them which im also fine with, I don't need stats to tell me what killers are doing how well. I know as most here will the best killers in the game are Nurse, Blight, Sprit and Hillbilly and the worst are Trapper and the other M1s it doesn't matter how people are performing on average.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700613#Comment_3700613
By your own admission, though, this requires her just harassing survivors away while building up Lock On stacks. While she's doing that, she's not actually gaining anything, and the survivors are gaining objective progress that she has limited ability to stall since she's reduced to dry kicks - which she only has eight of, nowadays.
Compare that to other killers, for whom the initial approach - the time where Skull Merchant's only getting a single stack of Lock On before needing to return to the patrol - could actually be an injure or a down, without any need for patiently building up their power at all. A killer like Bubba or Billy could threaten an instadown in scenarios where Merchant has to be content with a single scan, a killer like Knight or Artist could effectively pressure two gens at once while Merchant can only pressure one, a killer like Huntress or even Deathslinger to a degree doesn't even need to approach fully to begin with while Merchant has to physically walk over to the survivor she wants to pressure…
What's being described here isn't excelling at 3-genning, it's just having some interaction with 3-genning, and not even a particularly strong one compared to other killers. Sure, it'll beat the average disorganised team, but what killer wouldn't be able to beat them in this scenario?
If we assume that multiple survivors are alive (because any less than three and it doesn't matter, the killer wins anyway) and that those survivors are actually sticking on generators (because teams that don't do the objective don't win, that's obvious), then Merchant is like… middle of the pack at best when it comes to leveraging 3-gens, and that's only if she's trying to win. She's lost her ability to stall matches out for fifty minutes entirely.
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700613#Comment_3700613
So basically worse trapper I guess
It is strong. Way better than anything A trapper can do for one…..
you won't spend the whole game just harassing survivors you will get hits (bear in mind you can still proc undetectable whenever you want you as are not using all your drones all the time even in the example there is one spare) when you can down along the way its just when someone does inevitably get claw trapped either trying to disable a drone or running through a drone they will go down or to avoid that they will have to gift you hits with their pathing, and any down that you get from a claw trap into a down is going to be so close to your 3 gen that you will be able to proxy camp them in the middle of your drones and gens so any unhooker will likely be trading if you didnt need to pain res and could choose your hook. Anyone outside of a SWF that cannot communicate with their teammates will just lose.
When I play SM and I want to be as ruthless as possible with this "play style"
Discordance (so they cannot stack a gen in my 3 gen without me knowing)
Pain Res (its faster to proc that POP 9/10 times so if you ever have a scourge hook nearby it will allow you to keep your 3 gen easier than pop)
Surge (because you are downing people generally near gens)
Deadlock (In reality most of the time you get 3-4 gens that can be played as a 3 gen and 2 not being able to pop in quick succession with pain res lets me very rarely not be able to force a 3 gen without needing to just rotate around 3 gens at the start of the map when 5 need to be completed)
I refer to the build as the fun police skull merchant.
This is a DBD warcrime.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Is there any point in 3 genning with SM?
It's not like they can place down drones near gen and it will work, on top of that it is extremely easy to just disable it too, no penalty
What's so "overtuned" about her? genuinely curious
Yes. There is a point to 3 genning with the current SM its what she still excels at.
They cannot disable your drones safely when you are holding a 3 gen and assuming you take chase from the right directions zoning players into already placed drones they will get tagged at least 2 times from there you can drop chase or down them if the tags push them into being claw trapped as they get hindered and won't gain enough distance to get away from the 3 gen then proc surge on your 3 gen, hook said player in your 3 gen then pop if its worth doing (normally you just hook the player in your 3 gen then proxy camp) Assuming you don't make a mistake you WILL win if the survivers are not an swf or denying a 3 gen at 5 gens.
It could not be played against she is one of the best 3 gen killers in the game still you just put all your drones between gens or just on the outside of where the gens are hears a MS Paint Illustration
Key Red squares are gens
Black Circles are a bad attempt to show drone radius
Black edge of map border attempt
That's kinda how you roughly set yourself up. Do overcommit to chases southward in map for example try to hook it to your 3 gen if they start burning pallets in a good 3 gen location early commit to doing it early.
It's awful to play against but it's what SM is still good at.
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@Sarrif said:
Survivors have been awful to play lately unless your in a swf group and even that can be pretty rough. Meanwhile killers get more and more buffs while maps get weaker and weaker for survivors.
The only real recent 'buff' that comes to mind was the anti camp but that's laughably bad. A bubba 16 meters away is just as effective at face camping as a bubba 1 meter away from the hook.
And after looking at the actual atrocity that is the ptb I just get the sinking feeling that the devs do not care at all anymore about survivors experience anymore and we're just here for cannon fodder for the latest 2,000 killer win streak.
This post is going to be rambly but i keep seeing the occasional posts like this so im writing this very generally.
You do not need anything stronger than what you have available to you on survivor to do well. Throughout the history of DBD there have consistently been builds and specific perks on suv that are broken but most of these complaints by people saying "My sides so weak buff stuff that already good or Make a mechanic to help me" are just dont get why dbd feels the way it does.
I have many issues with Survivor right now. I think the new killers suck to play against more often than not and don't let you express yourself with cool and skillful plays because they just force downs if the killers are good enough (which MMR ensures they likely will be at some point) in a fixed amount of time while zoning you. Here's a whole comment where most my issues are explained its a big read but this is it.
@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699377#Comment_3699377
BHVR has not given up on half of their game, MFT was ridiculous but the lack of broken perks as survivors have had in the past is not the reason it feels so much worse.
They just simply don't understand what makes certain things work or not work in dbd and the survivor side is the primary victim of this right now.
Look at killer powers for instance most modern killer powers are generally just something you use to get hits under certain conditions if you are close enough to the survivor as alien you will get a hit if you play it "correct" and by "correct" I mean regardless of what your interaction is with the survivor. There is no depth to the interaction
alien too close to me, I drop pallet (alien respects pallet and M2s) gets hit
alien too close to me, I don't drop pallet (alien respects pallet and M2s) gets hit
alien too close to me, I don't drop pallet (alien respects pallet and M1s round next loop) gets hit
The same can be said with Chucky just replace aliens M2 with Scamper.
It all comes from the fact that killers are being designed around the idea that they must be able to work on all the maps they are coming out with as Toba Landing, for example, may be able to (it doesn't often but can I've seen it) Spawn a pallet into a junk vault into a tile window that can be ran through a pallet into another junk vault next to a loop you can save the pallet on by taking the last value mentioned last into the tiles pallet effectively creating something akin to an infinite against some old M1 type killers if the survivors notice it but most the newer types of killers can either hit the survivors locked in animation without a windup akin to huntress like alien or place their power in a way as to zone the survivors away from the strong tile or force a hit like Skull merchant (even if it will take a while) or dredge.
I know I used a rather niche example with Toba which is normally a fine map but the same reason applies to things like Haddonfield they don't need to worry about making unmindgameble and unplayable god Windows if they make killers like
Skull Merchant (because of her Drones)
Knight (because of his guards)
or even Unknown (because of their TPs)
whose powers force survivors to leave strong areas as they will make that area unplayable when a part of their kit is used
Or killers like
Chucky (Who can scamper into charge if it's needed)
Alien (who you can play very little against without pre-setting up something that denies him his power)
or even Wesker (whose dash into a vault lets him close significantly more distance than an M1 like a Pig, Myers, or Wraith could)
Killers are being made that ignore or mitigate the issues with the maps issues whether by conscious decision or not I don't know but these killers make survivor less fun to play as the vast majority of them just take away your agency and you will be seeing them more and more because they are power creeping the killers that cant deal with the issues they can I dont think the reason there is a 100% Surviver BP more than ever, as you noted, is because players are clambering to play Ghostface and Trapper
Just to expand on that the bottom 5 on every tier list where the player making it is not considering average players or comp players but games where you get strong teams matchmaking are normally stuff like
Trapper
Freddy
Ghostface
Legion
Myers
All older killers.
I think this is something that should be talked about more because most players don't think powercreep exists as much as it really does in dbd just because the strongest killers (nurse, blight, and spirit) are old but we are seeing it in dbd and its why some forum posters say stuff, like they consider 40% of killers to be A tier. Also tier lists are generally becoming more topheavy than they every were in the past slowly but surely. They are giving unnecessary strength to certain killers whose difficulty and skill ceiling does not justify their strength.
And what does this effect mostly- Survivor players, generally this is going to affect survivors in the sense that most of the games are just going to feel worse.
They don't need to make better perks for SUVs in any way they just need to come out with better killers to play against and the only way they can do that is if they stop compensating for how bad their maps are and quickly fix things on maps that are genuinely broken much faster and not let them linger in the game because its what stops people playing the weaker killers. It breaks them and it makes playing them a risk because you may have fun or you may have no control and have to drop chase every time a survivor gets to the main building so get ready to see your 3rd Wesker of the day or 4th Chucky or another Knight.
But most the suvs that occasion post stuff saying killers are getting stronger with no specific issues with their design being noted or maps being mentioned that just want something to put more power in the suv players' hands to in their eyes balance it out are the equivalent of the support players in overwatch that just argue forever that their character that was completely busted in S tier never needed a 2 second longer cooldown on one of the best abilities in the game.
YOU ARE THE MERCY AND KIRIKO MAINS OF DBD YOU DONT NEED 4x the chance to be sent to a good map, A stronger anti-camp measure that prevents anything but face camping, perks the strength of 2021-23 COH or old DH or MFT or More maps that link together like the example in the video below at the point clipped
https://youtu.be/JHkthkwyuZE?t=2519(this example only applies to M1 killers so it is an example of the killer power which is alluded to in the comment on another thread)
Most of the issues come down to maps and killers. Survivors need 0 changes except buffing/reworking the useless perks and gutting the ones that create unhealthy situations that cannot be played around eg For the People and Buckle up, because survivers don't really change on a game by game basis and maps and killers are far more important to the survivor experience than anything else so why would anyone want to see changes to survivors. Most of the issues go away if bad killer to play against stop getting released back to back to back.
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It certainly is a crutch and pads killers into being a bit higher than they should be hence why you can often tell when a killer is running it because they generally are not good but I wouldn't say it gets them to high MMR.
I would still gut it because good killers generally don't care about it.
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Sometimes its the funniest thing in the game
I reset a shack pallet against a Wesker 4 times in one game with any means necessary and once he broke it he walked backwards into the distance nodding
I died of laughter.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698608#Comment_3698608
It's less about being unfun and more about counterplay. What are you genuinely going to do against a Deathslinger with CoD quickscope? It's either keep out of line of sight until he leaves, or get shot. Any player worth their salt isn't going to fall for a juke, especially not with a quickscope. It isn't even close to same way other killers get hit confirms. It's the easiest zoning tool in the game and it's basically free. You could play almost an entire match as DS in old DBD without firing a shot, instead just threatening to and survivors being forced to path around as to not try it.
It isn't like this wasn't known either, it was the reason why this change was made in the first place. Is there not a single way to buff DS that doesn't bring back the thing that made him completely unbearable to face? Wouldn't this still not change the issue he's a 110% with no map mobility and has to slow himself down a lot by reloading?
It seems like most of the other people in the thread are with you in terms of stance, but idk man, that would honestly really kill a lot of the fun I have with Slinger as both killer and Survivor.
Removing his quick scope did not do what most people think because they never play slinger you can still down survivors with zero counterplay you just need to be able to flick with his ADS sensitivity (im a PC player) quick scoping has never been the reason he feels awful to play against his ADS time both before his big nerf and after is not slow enough to make any difference in 99% of scenarios most shots "dodged" are just slingers not being able to flick. The ball is almost entirely in his court every chase.
This is the important thing you need to consider to illustrate my point how much better (in terms of strenght) would deathslinger be if you could customise your ADS sensitivity separate from your overall sensitivity like how you can in FPS games like Overwatch. Imo he would be VERY close to his old strength he is only held back by clunk. Losing his quick scope only made him SO much worse because slingers are forced to play with the clunk.
It is also not like the current slinger is not miserable to face anyway he's 110 so slingers never even leave hooks to try to pressure the map but if he can get an M1 proxy camping hes going to try and shoot to prevent the unhook then he will camp with a slug under hook and that not even the biggest issue. He can wait out the play around the built-in endurance on unhook better than ANY other killer in the game meaning he is even more incentivised to proxy camp the hook. So they all proxy camp that's why every deathsligher feels like they camp.
He encourages you to camp and tunnel and has little to no counterplay in the chase able to down you on every shot wall loop and forceing pre-drops against good players (good players will predrop a slinger) if he is good enough.
He encourages the worst type of gameplay BUT he is clunky and feels awful to play and that's what's keeping him in line. That should NEVER be the case because there is nothing good about his place in the game right now.
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@MudSpit83 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697101#Comment_3697101
Same here dude lol, I bought the game on Playstation a few years back so I could play with my little nephew. Who’s your favorite monster? Mine was Preytor, Congar, and Raptros
Ultra V its been so long I had to look up that name but it was the thing in the game that looked the closest to a "good guy" to me as a kid.
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Try out nightlight
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Every down apart from when Ada picked you up you made a mistake you pathed badly on your first down taking the longer route to the pallet and waited outside the barn worried you would get curved when he wouldn't have been able to so you didn't even make it to said pallet. On your third down you did not try and play the pallet outside the barn you just went the same way as jake while knowing there was nothing to use in the barn.
A lot of people are saying you need to bring x or y perk but this is a skill issue combined with the fact your team was just not very good.
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@MudSpit83 said:
Do you guys think we should get more original monster killers similar to the Dredge and the Unknown? What type of monsters would you guys like to see next? Im hoping for a giant insect killer like a giant spider or the mothman for next time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PKCD3HIF17IV/img-1343.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N1VU48S8I3EJ/img-1341.jpeg
I GREW UP WITH WAR OF THE MONSTERS
YOU JUST HIT ME WITH A NOLSTAGA BOMB
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I don't disagree the game's skill ceiling is being lowered especially because a lot of newer killers just play like you are just following a flowchart- At this loop do this If you get hit end of chart. If not it and connects to another loop do this to force hit and so on until you get a hit.
That said most of what Slushy says about skill expression has very little to do with skill when the WHOLE learning curve is just knowing that an interaction exists.
Lightburning a wraith was not something you needed to practice or perfect, Removing hag traps had nothing to do with skill it was just knowing the interaction exists and then zapping them away and anything like locker saves where its just about learning a timing is just an advanced skill check imo. Most of what i consider to be skill expression in dbd is things a player can do better than another player a spirit can have better hearing and be more decisive than the last one you faced, A huntress may be able to hit crossmaps when the previous one could not ect. Dont get me wrong there is less opportunity for skill expression in dbd now eg every map has trees with branches all over the place so huntress crossmaps cannot be done as much but it's just not the things the video talks about.
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I want people to know even if I don't like the unknown the reason I wrote this post is it's a prediction.
The fact the most common response is just to dodge his shots and is not address the general things in his kit my prediction is based around such as his hit-and-run playstyle, strength in a 3 gen, proxy camp strength and zoning potential is making me even more confident that this is going to be the case because he is way more than just his UVX and 1v1 chases.
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@Doxie said:
Subtle cheating how? I see odd things but honestly can never tell. Just curious what to look for. Had a killer that found me twice. I was using distortion. I asked him how he found me and he said audio cues. Plausible however both times I was not moving and crouched also forgot to mention not injured. I reported just in case. Also there are times survivors are a bit faster than they should be (again just seems as much I could totally be wrong) I just feel on long straight aways I should be catching unless they are in a sprint burst. Just curious on what to look for
It's much easier to spot certain cheats like speedhacks normally as killer because you can see them almost all the time.
If I think I saw something I'd clip the last 3 minutes using my recording software and then check back on it normally subtle cheaters only speed up a little bit to make something they wouldn't without the speed.
The only thing ive ever spotted cheaters using and knew it was speedhacks but its happened a few times now.
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Spirit doesn't need any buffs.
Just remove passive phasing I would not care if they gave spirit access to the Nuclear launch codes as long as passive phasing was removed it's the most cheesy mechanic in the game.