Valyrie
Valyrie
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- Valyrie
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I dunno if we can really claim that over 1 skin, in fact the survivor skins that people say are p2w because of their quieter audio is being fixed (supposedly) by the devs.
So it's likely that with the elk skin they'll end up adjusting his audio levels to make him louder than his release, I don't think BHVR are intentionally making skins P2W, since updates (not just skins) suffer from a lack of stress testing and forethought.
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@Doxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708879#Comment_3708879
These posts are all about making killers stronger. It gets old. Survivors have nerfed perks and it gets old. Even the new characters have pretty much useless perks. I play survivor and get hit with something crazy and like....whoa what is that!!! Oh that's a cool perk. Here though anything good gets a big crying show that it needs nerfed. I lost to show you how old it gets seeing the same posts to buff killers over and over and over again.
Yes, this post is about making one of the worst killers in the game better, for both sides.
I already explained this perspective as someone who plays survivor AND killer in my post, which I'm going to just assume you didn't read at all.
This is not a place for you to vent about your experience in solo queue, I am only interested in discussing tweaks to Myers so he is more fun for both parties to play.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708843#Comment_3708843
Thats true, but reworks should only be for things that need it because whenever you rework a character you are likely going to be changing it for people the way it already is.
Michael doesn't need it to do what the character is trying to do for fans of his franchise and he is not something that most people have a problem facing. Not only are there bigger fish to fry but Michael is not really a problem and from what I know is quite liked by a lot of newer players so I don't think he should be changed.
Why should we be catering the character balance towards just new players, or fans who think he's fine? A lot of your argument for not changing him relies purely on anecdotal and pointing out there's other, worse, issues. However this is a forum, where multiple things can be discussed at once, and I am catering my thread to something I think needs spiced up to modern DBD standards.
Newer players are not where the discussion for character balance ends, nor fans. I know plenty of Halloween fans who play DBD that also wish Michael was a higher tier killer, or at least not bottom of the barrel. Does their input not count? They're also fans, they should get a say in it as well.
Nobody wants their fav/main to be D tier and weak, I'm in a similar boat with Sadako atm. She's cool, she's faithful, but I want her to be more than an M1 killer with an easy to counter gimmick, Michael should get the same respect imo.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412479/please-bhvr-rework-michael
Mintskull had an idea that i really like.
Great video honestly, hits the nail on the head why Myer's stalk makes little sense thematically and also accurately points out his weak spots in current DBD.
Every single one of his proposed changes I think would make Michael way more dynamic and flexible, I think players could reasonably experiment with builds on him, and the changes to base kit Tombstone no longer punishes you for playing well against Myers. The custom animation for the locker mori could also be super cool, and Michael becoming more of a menace as he progresses between tiers is perfect.
Honestly I would love to play AS and against this version of Myers.
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@Choaron said:
Nothing wrong with Michael's base design. Just make the "juice" of survivors slowly fill up back, that's it.
I would agree there's nothing wrong with the fundamentals of his design, mostly the part I want reworked is what's given to him for stalking and maybe speed up how quickly he stalks or let him stalk survivors infinitely, instead of the current finite amount.
If I could I would experiment with the game parameters myself and see what it's like, but I do think a version of Michael that progressively becomes more of a monster in chase as he ascends each tier could be really fun. Faster vault speed, scarily longer lunge range, reduced stun time, reduced break time, ect, just this unstoppable (not literally unstoppable) monster.
And with him ascending each tier faster than before, he wouldn't be waiting the whole game to get value out of his power.
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@Doxie said:
Dear BHVR ... Please tie up survivors, nerf all their perks and give us one button to push for a 4k.
Thank you
Geeesh
I have no idea what you're talking about, nowhere in this post did I propose such a ridiculous idea.
If you're not interested in analysis and good faith discussion, please take your snide salty remarks somewhere else.
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@[Deleted User] said:
He's outdated and clunky. He's in dire need of a rework and remodel along with Freddy. I'm not overly creative with addons and powers but a few Qol changes would be enough I think.
Absolutely, I would love for them to finally bring him up to snuff with modern DBD. Of course wanting a rework could always be a monkeys paw idea, and we end up with a worse version of Michael, but as someone who plays both sides I just want him to be more dynamic and flexible in his gameplay for both parties.
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@Unusedkillername said:
Michael does not need a rework
He is awful and a bottom-tier character that the game has left behind… and that is ok he is a licensed character that perfectly fulfils the fantasy that is playing as Michael Myers for fans of the Halloween franchise. I recently had a friend who's a fan of Halloween get into the game and when he did they kept saying how much he loved him, and BHVR did him justice, and how his power was perfect for the character.
If a licensed character is not trying to be a good character but is trying to do right by the character as long as its not a pain for regular players to play against and harmful to the game's health then I'm fine with them being trash.
I acknowledged that he's bottom tier, that's exactly WHY I think he should get a rework. Players who start sinking more playtime into him will quickly realize their fav has shockingly limited ways to play optimally, and I would appreciate for both sides of the game that to not be the case, allowing for more interesting matches between both parties.
@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708834#Comment_3708834
Michael can stay faithful to his identity as a character without comprising his competitive viability. There are a number of ways to add to his kit that keeps his core power intact.
Yes this exactly. I don't want him to change fundamentally, I just would like some adjustments to make him more flexible and dynamic to play as and against. I think that's a pretty fair request as someone who plays both sides.
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@Doxie said:
Dear BHVR ... Please tie up survivors, nerf all their perks and give us one button to push for a 4k.
Thank you
Geeesh
What are you talking about???
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@Huge_Bush said:
After seeing what they did to Sada-no and their proposed changes for Twins that they, thankfully, walked back on, I’d rather they leave him alone.
While pessimistic I honestly still think that's completely fair, because I'm also sad about Sadako and Twins.
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This was before I picked the game back up so I must have missed this, I really hope they do him justice and don't pull another Twins stunt.
Fingers crossed!
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605828#Comment_3605828
There is nothing wrong with being good at a character in the game. But it's different when the character is not hard to control to be considered "good". My point is, that his kit allows him to forgive many mistakes he makes allong the chase and still catch up. In case of chucky it's not that hard. You need a lot more practice to be considered good with the blight or the nurse. Strong killers indeed but useless in the hands of somebody who can't control their powers. Monstrous in the hands of those who can. Chucky however bypasses that. You can mess up a lot and still get the hit because of his advantages. That is my point
While I don't necessarily agree with the nerf decisions proposed, I do agree it's kind of ridiculous how easy it is to do well with Chucky. His base kit is just kind of an all-in-one and if you just use Make Your Choice with gen regression/defense perks you can do so stupidly well without putting almost any thought into your gameplay.
Do I want Chucky to be bad? No, I don't even think he needs A TON of tweaks, but I'd like his base kit to cover less bases or be less strong in the areas it covers if not. Personally I'd just lower the distance he can cover with his lunge attack by a tiny bit, like just JUST a smidge, or have pallet stuns knock him out of hidey-ho akin to other killers who lose power upon stun.
Nothing feels worse than pallet stunning the little bastard only to have him scamper under the pallet and immediately get you anyways.
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What do you mean?
He's only really small and hard to see on most maps and tiles, has built in stealth, can vault pallets, and can rush you down without being locked in a direction.
It's totally fine for his power to cover literally every base!
Oh wait…
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@xltechno said:
Yes, so if the survivors do the necessary actions without misunderstanding the system and purpose of this game, 2k or 1k results will be mass produced.
The survivors reduce gen equal to the killer's lifespan, and the killer advances a hook state equal to the lifespan of the killer. If one survivor leaves early, the killer will have an advantage, but if he frees the other survivors to accelerate the completion of the gen, it will put the cart before the horse and the match will end at almost 1k. Therefore, the survivors are required to properly rescue with no their rescue consciousness go out of control and the killer patrols the gen and gets in the way of the survivors until this happens.A little skill and a great deal of knowledge come into play here, making it clear that this is a math tactics game rather than an individualistic hero game.
Therefore, it is known that tunneling is not a very strong tactic, because if the killer knows that he will do it, he will say, "I will die anyway, so I will buy you as much time as possible, so you guys should quickly complete your gen and leave.'' This is because simply doing so will almost guarantee the escape of the other survivors. If the killer is ready to tunneling, the survivors may try to pull the killer back with a pointless immediate rescue, or they may all just crouch by the hook without completing the gen in the first place, or go into hiding from killer. Rather, the other survivors need to show that they are nearing completion of their gen to attract the killer's attention.
If you're saying that survivors are so bad that they need a crutch, you might as well just say that hooked survivors disappear and respawn randomly after a minute, with a 20% debuff on completing gens during that time. Is it not? In this case, the killer will definitely not be able to dig a tunnel for one minute, so there is a point in using the hook, and since it can prevent the completion of the gen, he will actively target other survivors.
In any case, if you can become the killer's stalker while remaining invincible and share the killer's location information with other survivors through aura display even if you are not an SWF, that is too powerful even if one person is out of gen completion.
Yes this exactly, whenever I play SWF and someone gets tunneled we always get a 3 or 2 man out because we juice the gens while he proxy camps hook and tunnels as soon as they're rescued from it. It just sucks for the player receiving.
In any case, in regards to OPs original idea, my suggested feedback was this.
- Using any tools or interacting with a part of the map that isn't a window loop should remove the invincibility. This means the player with the invincibility cannot drop pallets without losing it, cannot start using a flashlight without losing it, cannot heal or work gens without losing it.
- To incentivize not abusing this it should have a 20 second timer, and apply hindered + exhaustion for a short period of time after the time is up. This way survivors who use the 20 seconds to get away are so far away the downsides of hindered + exhaustion are meaningless, and the players who want to try and abuse it for a flashlight or pallet save are easy targets for wasting their anti-tunnel.
These kind of restrictions would punish people trying to abuse their invincibility, not allow them to hold matches hostage in a state of constant invincibility, not give their team endless info on the killer, and prevent people from going for a flashlight save and then popping into a sprint burst right after.
Only downside to all of this is that all anti-tunnel perks and unhook related perks would need to be reworked, except for ones like breaking the hook when you get unhooked.
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685770#Comment_3685770
Umm I do not think you get what am saying. If I intentionally go down (trying to save the person being tunnel) and the killer leaves me thereI am talking being slugged trying to take away the killers aggression of tunneling out the baby survivor. They down you and just leave you cause they are dead set on taking out the survivor which is annoying and unfair for the new player.
Or even better yet when am in a 4 man swf and one of us is being tunneled to the ground and the other goes down on purpose but gets slug we already have 1 person doing gen and one person picking up and if needs be we go down again and rinse and repeat cause one of us always run expo so that unbreakable perk your asking why am not running it is not making sense to me.
I am talking about solo que tunneling/slugging the person down who willingly throw themselves at you to give you a free health state + hook. Tunneling is nothing when you have swf which is what I play 90% of the time and me and my 4 man swf are all decent loopers and we do not care about tunneling.
Tunneling only bugs me in solo que because there is no way to communicate to randoms cause dbd dont have coms and honestly am glad it dont. TCM indicates why coms will never be a good idea, people their can say some disgusting crazy things. But overall I say we both agree that if the killer is dead set on tunneling someone out it is what it is.
With solo Q yeah tunneling is a nightmare but that ultimately kinda comes down to the biggest issue as to why it's hard to avoid most tunneling (low skill killers taking what they can get), which is that if you're doing solo Q the lack of basic communication makes it absolutely hellish and you will commonly die to bad killers bringing strong perks, simply because not working as a unit makes the game unwinnable.
Best case scenario you bring unbreakable, if you get downed you can self pick up and tell your team to just go help who's being chased, that way nobody needs to spend time on gens or picking you up.
But in solo Queue, Even if you brought Unbreakable and did your best to help who you unhooked, there's no way to let the other two players know you have unbreakable and that they should just go trade hits to help who's being chased. It causes so many issues in solo Queue, it sucks.
Even in a lobby with high prestige players it's possible to lose the game hard because you just cannot communicate any of the nuanced information (what perks you've seen in play, organizing to take hits, heal and reset, ect) that your team needs to play at their best.
But yeah ultimately tunneling cannot be completely stomped without huge sweeping changes to the game, but I do think the limited window of invincibility with the suggested restrictions could help. Only problem is that suddenly all the unhook/anti-tunnel perks become kinda useless and would need reworked.
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685691#Comment_3685691
Goodness that is a wall of nice copy and paste anyways the take a hit/exchange for your team mate tunnel is not mine or the other two faults, many times I intentionally block and give the killer a free hook but no they SLUG me down and go and chase the baby survivor who just brought the games in 10 mins and on their death hook, so that part of you or other team mates should try exchange/take the heat does not work, killers will tunnel out someone if they want to.
It's easier to compile all responses into a single comment than making multiple comments, even if it is rather long.
Regardless though, if this slug fest is happening as often as you claim it is, to the point trading health states and hook states is useless for you, then why aren't you bringing Unbreakable? If it happens that often it would be instinctual to bring it, no? Bill is basekit, and you can easily prestige his perks with this Blood Moon event if you don't want to play him as a character every match.
If the killer is dead set on tunneling sure there's nothing you can do, ultimately, at the end of the day, and even the suggested "invincible until doing something" addition doesn't prevent that from happening.
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685534#Comment_3685534
Open their eyes and ears and and search better or use perks like spies/whispers or your abundance of aura reading crutches.
"Use perks" is the exact same thing you and your team should be doing if you're going for risky unhooks. If you unhook and then let the killer tunnel off hook with no safety net that is a mistake on your part. Trade a health or hook state for your teammate, or run the killer. In some cases you can't prevent it which sucks, but majority of the time tunneling is completely preventable by altruism, even more so with strong anti-tunneling perks.
@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685581#Comment_3685581
Yeah sounds something exactly what a tunneler would say, anyways this is why killers should stop complaining about swf bullies when they treat solo que players like garbage.
Returning to hook isn't tunneling, the actions upon arrival to hook is what determines if it is or isn't. If a killer returns to hook and chases the person who got the unhook is it tunneling? No. Even if they do tunnel after the person who got unhooked, again, you or your teammates should be trading blows and running killer to prevent tunneling, then run off to heal and reset. It's a core part of high level play as survivor.
@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685551#Comment_3685551
Just admit you like tunneling, I seen survivors who had no distortion=the killer sees them with bbq begins to chase them but then as soon as they hear that hook notification they drop the chase with that person and comes right back and you know it. Trying that distortion excuse was a good attempt.
At 2 gens, should you chase another survivor at full health or should you go where you KNOW two survivors are, possibly down one, and down the other in chase? I've had situations like this and going after the lone survivor when you can double your pressure towards end game is such an obvious choice, you'd be dumb to chase the lone survivor esp if he's not dead on hook.
@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685561#Comment_3685561
they can follow you around making impossible to hook others if they have flashlights or teammate fell under the pallet.
This is the exact issue with granting survivors immunity off of hook. Unless you make it so doing LITERALLY anything drops them out of it they will just abuse it by getting free flashlight or pallet saves. BT is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk but you literally see survivors with BT take the hit to save their teammate instead of leaving hook to prevent being tunneled. We can't have more extreme anti-tunneling because skilled survivors will find a way to abuse it and turn it from "anti tunnel" into "how can I make the killer miserable" which just makes all killers bring Exposed or Gen Regression perks.
@nodforkiss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685528#Comment_3685528
what is killer supposed to do if they couldnt find any survivors to chase?
As long as the survivor does something after being unhooked it's basically fair game. If your team is crouch walking the edges of the map and you're the only one out in the open getting gens done, you can't really call tunneling bc the killer is only able to find you. Survivor's ofc will still call "tunneling" even though their team is to blame in pretty much every instance regarding this subject.
@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685528#Comment_3685528
Hard to agree, hitting rescuer is valid and should be allowed.
Invincibility is literally the best and least invasive basekit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685522#Comment_3685522
Survivor can just go anywhere and do a thing, but nothing more.
Have you read OP after all?
Mostly a good idea but needs more restrictions. Gens or using any tool should disable it, and hit you with a hindered effect. This way you introduce a level of risk for a player who wants to abuse their invinc window by going for flashlight saves. Getting hit with hindered makes them a prime target again and is probably enough of a punishment for wasting their free anti-tunnel.
If you're far enough away healing or working a gen the hindered effect is basically meaningless, but you're putting yourself in a bad spot by disrespectfully healing/doing gens or going for flashlight saves in the killers face after an unhook.
Invincibility also needs a timer, otherwise survivors could hold the match hostage in a permanent form of invincibility.
If all of those were in place to prevent abuse then I'd be completely on board for it as a measure against tunneling.
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Anything silly. I've had matches that were easy 4k where I've let 1 or 2 people live just because they did something silly, melted my heart, and we all got to be silly for a while. In a game where so many people take it way too seriously or try their hardest to make it miserable for other players, anyone willing to participate in some light hearted fun deserves an out imo.
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Solo Q as survivor really needs some improvements.
If BHVR is going to keep holding out VC on survivors, or basic chat features, they should AT LEAST let you see your teams perks before the match starts. The only hope you have is pre-game lobby chat and if they're crossplay then gg they aren't seeing that #########. I solo Q on pc and almost EVERY lobby I get into is console players I cannot talk to.
I cannot keep track of the amount of times this lack of communication has ruined matches. Most recently Bill and I both got hooked in basement, I wasted as much time before I got downed and hooked and the huntress ran off. My plan was to wait til I saw the chase icon to self unhook using Sable's new perk, then pop BT on Bill and have him block as we run out. Other Sable can't hear this so she comes to help, wasting time. My plan works, I self unhook and save bill, and as Bill runs upstairs she body blocks me from leaving, wasting precious seconds that lets the Huntress come down into Basement. She hugs corner so I have nowhere to hide, slips out and lets me get downed and rehooked. I was so furious that my amazing play had been taken from me by something so stupid.
Basic communication could've prevented this, and its kind of a joke it's not been implemented yet. This was at Gold 1 before I ranked back up.
But you know, when I play killer I get paired with P50 - P100 survivors consistently, meta builds, flashlights and flash bangs, absolute nightmare matchups. This most recently happened at Ash 3, as I've not been playing a lot of killer this month (trying to understand Survivor better atm), and I'm so confused as to why I get paired with these people constantly. What are such good players doing at such low rank? Today in the same rank I went against ghostee, who is a comp player with over 2800 hours, and while I managed to squeeze out a 4k as Sadako, it was such a rough match and I had to play really well to severely punish their mistakes. It wasn't fun, even though I won.
I also had a match against a trapper who, despite being really bad at chase and loops, tunneled two teammates out despite us taking hits and using BT, then slugged the third at 1 gen and proceeded to try and hunt me until my teammate bled out. I got hatch, but that doesn't count as a win and I barely got any reward for the absolute hair pulling match that player put us through with the constant proxy camping and slugging. It wasn't fun even though I was the one who made it out.
The way MMR works right now is absolutely miserable, and rank reset solo Q is a nightmare. You get stuck in Ash for so long due to the type of killers who show up there. They're bad at everything they do but because it's solo Q and I'm stuck in a lobby of noobs or bad players the killer gets to pop NOED, or Tombstone Meyers, or some other insane build that is only broken in lobbies at low MMR where almost every survivor is new or just really bad. And for those new or really bad players? Probably not fun for them either to lose so many matches to killers packing builds that make the matches impossible for them, because unlike me they probably can't crawl themselves out of that hellhole if they're struggling to loop for more than 10 seconds. It must be infuriating for them.
How I would fix this? I have no solid ideas. Obviously if you buff survivor too much to accommodate solo Q then the SWF groups become too strong. If you nerf survivors too much to accommodate their power as a coordinated swf, killer stomps them too easily.
I still think basic comms are not powerful enough in the hands of your average player to be devastating against killer who already has a 60% win rate across the board, and that implementing them would relieve so much of the frustration found in solo Q. All it takes is one misinformed decision to snowball the entire match.
As for killer, fixing the MMR is the best decision imo. I think having a hidden timer that keeps track of how well both survivor and killer do in chase could do wonders. If you consistently win chase as survivor, then you're more likely to be paired with someone who consistently win chase as killer, and vice versa.
I'm tired of going against bad killers who rely on proxy camping, slugging, or tunneling, and losing to a 3 or 4k because they bring pub stomp perks and the players I get paired with are brainless, and I'm tired of every match I play as killer being against coordinated P100s who make me sweat my ass off just to get a player out.
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Skull Merchant, no contest.
Every match vs her is a 3 gen defense game where she brings the best gen regression perks. Matches against that will take up to an hour if you want to win, even with experienced survivors on comms, and in solo q it is borderline impossible, the match is over before it's started.
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Absolutely.
We got one for using the vaccine against Nemesis, I think DS should definitely get a brief stabbing animation.
The only POTENTIAL problem is it adding an extra second to the overall stun, since you'd need a second for the animation and then the 3 second stun afterwards, making it 4s in total. Not game breaking, but if BHVR doesn't like that then sadly I dunno if we'll get it.
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I'm not the best survivor ever, but here's been my counterplay bible for The Unknown.
If you know he's going to shoot at you, there's a few things you can do.
-If you have the room, do a simple dodge like you would against Huntress
-If you're running loops, don't hug the walls at windows, always take them wide to avoid splash through the wall
-Consider doubling back briefly to make him overshoot, and even if he hits you directly you're only hindered briefly
With the hallucinations, if he leaves one at a gen you're working at, scope the closest pallet or loop, then start fixing the gen. As SOON as you see him mid chase, or you see someone get infected with UVX, immediately start dispelling the body double near you and you can go back to repairing the gen risk free.
If he drops one on the other side of a pallet, just wait for the teleport noise, or just vault the pallet the instant you get to it. if you're vaulting the pallet INTO a body double, immediately vault back over the pallet. This works most of the time, but some players will be trying to trick you into doing a double vault for a free grab, so be careful with that one!
Of course on certain maps with lots of map props or clutter this can be difficult, but more often than not this works pretty well for me and I've started winning most of my games against him instead of dying, and even if I do die I can still manage to get my team out.
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Sadly the two biggest truths about this game are that it's a team based game, and that the solo Q experience is miserable since you're so restricted in terms of communication. Your teammates are solely responsible for alleviating or preventing any tunneling, and in solo Q it can feel impossible to find teams who will trade hook or health states to help you.
I think something like this could potentially help alongside a lack of player collision after being unhooked, similar to running through the killer after he hits you. Ofc Babysitter would have to seem some buffs or a rework to make this happen, but it's not impossible.
@TheArbiter said:
While we are at it can we please revert iron will back to 100% silence
They only nerfed it to make Bite The Bullet viable, but imo Iron Will making BTB redundant should've meant that BTB sucked and should've been an entirely different perk, instead of hurting Iron Will.
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I agree this perk is problematic, but for both sides and not just survivor.
As survivor you can beat the killer in every aspect (loops, heals, chase, gens, hooks) and still lose because you didn't spend time searching every corner of every tile and spend 14 seconds or more per totem, cleansing 5 of them, which sucks and is not engaging. In some instances, with certain gen regression builds, a match against a killer can take up to 40 minutes even if you're all making good plays, and to do all of that only to be hit with NOED at the end is just miserable.
As killer you do not internalize the basics (winning chases, learning to play loops, good gen patrol) because NOED safety nets your failure to do so, and when you climb MMR you will get destroyed and sent back to destroying people stuck in solo queue or low MMR swf.
Both of these issues hurt the experience for solo play and new players, of which this game does not do enough to accommodate for imo.