UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the story changes hands as often as a comic series. It's too difficult to figure out where it's going once that happens.
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Unlike the drama over the exit survey, this survey was definitely more geared toward Survivor. And I think it makes perfect sense. BHVR is not able to generate enough interest for Survivor with 2v8, despite it being so in-demand. I'm not BHVR so I don't know their intentions, but I would guess they're trying to find a middle ground there. I think getting angry that it isn't focused on Killer is really missing the point (in my opinion).
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I think the issue is player ego more than anything. The power role feels entitled to be the power role at all times, even in the face of more skilled players. BHVR has catered to that for years now and anything that deviates from that tends to receive major backlash.
What can you do to balance a game for players that don't accept anything other than being prioritized 100% of the time?
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No offense, but that would kill 2v8. Nerfing Survivor too hard makes no sense for a mode that already has 2 Killers and also consistently fails to pull enough Survivors to meet BHVR's standards for the queue. You also have to factor in how strongly the disparity between Killer powers is reflected in the mode. The stronger the additions become, the stronger Survivor has to become to compensate.
Ideally, they'd refine the scaling difficulty to be stronger so that it does all of the heavy lifting. Anything else starts getting incredibly messy.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I recall following killers around most of the round revealing them for like 90% of the match and people were mad at me for not doing gens even shaking their head at me when pulling me out of cages etc. Its as if they are just meant to do all the basic stuff everyone else is doing and just be and early warning system or show the killer while they are distracting them in chase. So i don't know why they are built to be spying on the killer if that playstyle is shunned by the other survivors anyway lol
It might be more interesting if they used the Wire Tap code to create bugs you can place all over the map as Scouts. Basically make it so the Killer's aura is shown whenever they interact with something.
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Honestly Michael.
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@cogsturning said:
I never see Nurse. Blights are rare. I get a pretty good mix.
For years now, Ghostface and Michael are the most common for me. The stats always seem to agree as well.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026462#Comment_4026462
Literally only some killers can keep up (Nurse Blight Oni Billy Dracula) Other killers like (Slinger, Ghostface, Pyramid Head Nemesis) Can't either the weaker killers need to be buffed to be able to keep up or Gen speeds need to be tweaked in general so it's more fair to the killer side or maybe the 10 gens can be a thing since we're short changed already then that way they can stay fast
But then you create a condition where an 8k is much more possible to achieve than an 8e. Keeping it a wildcard, where 4k/4e is most likely, is the best for the mode.
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Honestly? I really don't care. Communication complaints should be the least of the concerns with where the game is at right now. No offense.
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Gens have to be able to go fast to keep up with 2 Killers. Gens can slow down, but to balance it fairly, you'd have to scale Killer down to compensate.
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@Mr_K said:
You can make killer a cake walk but killers that tunnel now will start to tunnel if survivors ever get close to escaping. Killers that say they tunnel only because the matches are too fast, only say that to justify an action they feel is wrong. But not every killer thinks tunneling is wrong or feels guilt for doing so. Getting a 3v1 as fast as possible will always be beneficial to the 1. The killers that tunnel at 5 gens, the type where these complaints come, won't stop simply because you made the match overall easier for them.
Exactly. It's beating a dead horse, but 6.1.0 literally proved that and yet it's still being treated as if it isn't true. I fully believe if the inverse happened, Survivor would take full advantage of it as well. It's why this sort of balancing doesn't work for the game.
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@Roco45 said:
I'm calling it, there's bots, there is absolutely bots in some of the Surv matches. It's either I get real human beings while playing and we do gens, or I get a lobby of bots who just stand around. I got hooked earlier and watched as every single other player was just sitting in a corner, real human beings don't play like that lol
Probably very likely.
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The pallet update was designed to be nerfed in my opinion.
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I don't care about when it's done, it's how powerful it is that's the issue. Tunneling should give Killer the ability to catch up so that the playing field is even again, but it should never give you a 4k.
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Several abandons were had tonight. But at least a couple Killers were nice and wanted to grind. Felt a little closer to what the game used to be like during events.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021718#Comment_4021718
Omg haha it absolutely does have drag energy. I can't unthink that now. Idk why they chose that bright yellow color either. His regular hair, or maybe a short ponytail, would have been fine.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021694#Comment_4021694
Even a 2v8-sized map could barely contain all that arrogance.
It makes me miss the modding scene. 😭
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It's a poor excuse, in my opinion, after years of trying to limit random events in-game. I think they just didn't want to commit to what they said they would and quickly put the brakes on it.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021709#Comment_4021709
I'll have a good time playing killer, yeah, but that play while you wait willl be all pain. I also had an abysmal escape last time. But I also barely touched the mode. It's probably my most hated event.
I feel the same way you do for this event. I saw the Felix cosmetic and was like, "Can I please just buy it??" I'm enjoying my tail though, even though the aura on it makes me super targetable.
It's a shame too because I loved 2v8 at first. It had its issues sure but the game felt like it was 50/50 again. Then the RE chapter had to go and ruin it.
Same. But now that I have the outfit, the hair (like always) makes me feel like I have a drag wig on or something. 😭 Can we please leave the Bump Its in 2008 where they belong? However… paired with the Side Quiff? Now that's a look.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021595#Comment_4021595
The one question on a survey that most people DIDN'T EVEN KNOW EXISTED, until BHVR literally said it was being used as a justification of the phase 2 changes. Yes, the survey does become more important AFTER we learn it is being used to drive balance changes.
And it's massively disingenuous to say survivors are "getting nothing" when you're fully aware there is going to be another PTB with modified changes. This isn't like the AFK crows, where BHVR literally pulled everything and left killers with absolutely nothing for literal months, and refuses to tell us if they are happy with the AFK crows.
Do you see how that is different? When the AFK crows got massively nerfed, that was it… just radio silence from BHVR for months. When the phase 2 changes got reverted, we get constant reassurance there will be at least another PTB with modified changes, and perhaps multiple PTBs with modified changes.
No offense but you are so thoroughly exhausting to discuss anything with. In my opinion. So I'm going to tap out again.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021635#Comment_4021635
I liked the first iteration of Lights Out, but not the second. At least we won't have to worry about Legion in this upcoming 2v8. Though I'm not sure how I'll deal with Executioner, since I have a rough time with him even in the normal game... And Dracula has a similar attack, so I'm gonna be screwed...
Last 2v8, camping/tunneling/slugging was horrible. I had less than half the escape rate I do in the regular queue. No Legion is nice, but the addition of Dracula and PH's powers as compensation? No thank you.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021639#Comment_4021639
I hate 2v8 but playing Dracula has me a little hyped ngl
I'm genuinely glad you'll have a good time though. 😎 Please just pray to BHVR for me that it's all Sable and Mikaela cosmetics so I don't have to play. 🤣
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@[Deleted User] said:
I dislike 2v8 (I blame legion) and lights out more.
No arguments there. 😭
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021625#Comment_4021625
Okay, this is a bit more fair then I was thinking. I am also not trying to attack your view ppint(as I can understand how everyone has view points)
And that is a fair assessment. It is weird how there is a sudden anger against this. If people were genuinely upset(not saying op is not) and they knew about it before hand why use said feelings now?
And thank you for specifying they form of you. I would understand ether way but it does help prevent people from "skewing" your words.
It's hard to be seen as a fair person when everything is so high stakes all the time. 😵 I don't think the anger is a conspiracy or anything, I just think it's a knee-jerk reaction to feeling attacked. A lot of people were angry about anti-tunnel/slug before they even saw what it was going to be, so they need something to blame. It's no secret that these surveys are brushed over more often than not, judging by what they ask, what the community wants, and what we ultimately receive. Even in this case, the changes attributed to the survey were pulled in record time. But the feeling is more important than the reality and there's hell to pay, despite how unreasonable it may be.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021356#Comment_4021356
While you might be right, coming at it like this is not beneficial. You wouldn't want them to make the same claims as you do in said position would you?
In this specific position, I might. The reality is that nobody cared about this survey for good reason and, in my opinion, it's mostly an attempt to hijack the upset from phase 2's false promises. When you're that intent on being the center of attention, it's important to have someone that can help you snap out of it (general "you"). In my opinion.
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@cogsturning said:
Someone makes a joke and the victimhood goes through the roof. How does a game about torturing and murdering innocent people have such a fragile community?
I keep asking that question and all I get is resistance. 😵
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The issue for me is that it doesn't even feel like an event. The crystals don't feel impactful enough so I ignore the Void entirely unless I'm forced to interact with it for a challenge. Aside from that, we just have spooky pumpkins.
It would be nice to feel like there's something special about this queue.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021442#Comment_4021442
can we get an explanation why? It’s always that you guys chose not to do it.
I'm telling you, I really think it boils down to not wanting to moderate it on BHVR's end. They'll tell you it's about the atmosphere or something like that, but it's more likely that they don't want a clip circulating online of someone shouting a slur. In my opinion of course.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021459#Comment_4021459
All 3 of your examples already exist:
Survey? It doesn't say if your reason is that your are tired of tunneling or tired of being tunneled as your gameplay. It's already "both sides".
There's also a ######### text box you can type in, and it doesn't exactly check your number of hours played per role to enable any of these options.
Killers already have abandon, when it's been 10 minutes after gen completion.
Hook status was added already.
This whole survey "issue" is like watching an entitled child complaining and crying that they didn't get anything at someone else's birthday party. Except in this case, the entitled child actually was given a present and also got the birthday party cancelled at the same time, and still thinks it's somehow unfair. FFS.
This whole survey "issue" is like watching an entitled child complaining and crying that they didn't get anything at someone else's birthday party. Except in this case, the entitled child actually was given a present and also got the birthday party cancelled at the same time, and still thinks it's somehow unfair. FFS.
That's what makes it more annoying for me. After all of the BS from this year alone, we're supposed to drop everything for one question on a survey that nobody even cared about for months? Because it's so important, and definitely not because there's a bone to pick with anti-tunnel/slug even after it was pulled and we're getting nothing.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021359#Comment_4021359
It's showing a double standard.
- Someone claims a survey is "for both sides" and "fair", as long as it has an Other "option where you can write down your own opinion"
- This person refuses to agree that it would be ok if the survey was filled with killer-sided choices, as long as it has an Other "option where you can write down your own opinion"
- Therefore, this person doesn't actually believe the Other option makes a survey fair
- Therefore, mentioning that a survey has an Other option, doesn't actually mean anything
Except it's not because you took a survey with one, maybe two, questions pointed at Survivor and claim that now the entire survey is for Survivor. You're overinflating it and seeing what you want to see and then asking why I don't see it too.
And all of this is hypothetical which is what makes it so pointless, in my opinion. What ifs with the survey that led to changes that were pulled after 48 hours. No offense, but why should I or anyone else care about minor issues that led to things that never happened?
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I'm fine with comms. The issue is that the players are terrified of it and BHVR wouldn't want to moderate it. I hear all kinds of reasons, but I think that's the core of it.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019522#Comment_4019522
they literally give you free escape during end game lol back then it was impossible to do without borrowed time. Why do you still get bt and haste for free during endgame I’ll never know.
To be fair, BHVR even tried deleting the endgame altogether with the odds even further stacked against Survivor with the Last Man Standing mechanic. I genuinely get the feeling they don't want the gates anymore but they won't actually remove them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020797#Comment_4020797
Does that mean you would have been fine if the survey had a bunch of killer-sided choices like "generator speeds are too fast", but had zero survivor-sided choices, and survivors could just choose "None of the above" if they wanted to complain about tunneling?
If your argument is so strong, I don't know why you keep having to make things up to support it. In my opinion.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020807#Comment_4020807
Theres no changes that havent gone through, cause the PtB is still happening, and their data source for pinpointing 'Camping, Slugging, Tunneling' is from this survey that happens when you uninstall, which has that Option right at the bottom left, and its one of the least blanket options, its very clear what it means, its not confusing or badly written like most of the options, its a clear cut answer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NO9QJN1ZFHNF/image.png
But most of the answers arent like this, theyre very vague or could mean a variety of things, and most of all, none of the answers really fits specifically the Killer side, if a Killer player uninstalls i nearly guarantee that they cant get their reasons for uninstalling across with this survey, while any Survivor player in a similar situation could easily recognize a couple boxes as reasons to give.
Like obviously the optional filler box should never be the ONLY way for an entire side of the playerbase to express their issues in the entire survey? Hello???It doesn't mention slugging, first off. Second of all, it's one question. I have a feeling that if it said "Gens are completed too quickly" instead, you'd tell Survivors to get over it. And you wouldn't be wrong. 😵
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It's been a big complaint for a while that Killer doesn't feel challenging enough. The players that feel that way typically leave however.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020799#Comment_4020799
I mentioned the exact problems you list yet you act like i presumed stuff i never said.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BTT3F5XZQQ47/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3KVAZ1XR5BDB/image.png
So we basically agree here, cause we both see the choice as too blanket to give any real substance, what data do they gain from an option that could mean a million different things, do they just assume what it means?
I will give you the point below being valid.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YYTGJJH2WP31/image.png
But i do believe trolling/griefing is alot harder to have done on the solo role, Killer, i mean nothing survivors do can be called griefing except to their own team, sandbagging, ratting out your team, doing nothing to help your team ect, and trolling can maybe refer to tbagging or flashlight clicking, so fair enough, it is still a very blanket option.
There isnt a singular option that is about specifically Killer-issues, and when we know that this Data goes toward gameplay altering decisions it is obviously not something to just shove under the rug.
I dont believe anything i said was insane unless asking for the Surveys to include a fair distributions of choices for both sides is outrageous?I didn't mean to imply you were insane by talking about the outrage, so fair enough.
@ArcT said:
Most survivor players occasionally play killer, but there is a large enough population of killer players to have multiple discords, subreddits, and subsets of them entirely dedicated to griefing streamers and other players in general who will never touch survivor. Losing the 'average' player means losing someone who plays both roles, and you need four times as many survivor players as killers just by math alone.
But it also bears noting that this witch hunt for evidence of bias is patently absurd. There have been numerous patches, PTBs, and updates that were 100% killer sided. Obviously the devs won't come out and say "Yes, this patch is dedicated mainly on the survivor experience" because WE SEE HOW YA'LL REACT TO THAT. And you're proving the point. We literally just a couple months ago had a patch (9.0) that was 100% addressing killer complaints with zero buffs for survivor. The opposite, in fact. Innocent survivors were getting penalized and punished by the changes they made. The other side getting some attention after that is not some grand conspiracy to screw you, nor are you owed compensatory buffs every time a change is made.
This is where I'm at. It's really grasping at straws, especially when the changes that were made, possibly on behalf of the survey, didn't even go through.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020798#Comment_4020798
They should have never made that damn stats page. It's like you're obligated to show stats to have any leverage. It'd be the same with MMR, though at least that can go both ways. "You're low/high MMR so you don't understand the problems of high/low MMR."
I'm still not signing up for it. The milestones tell me enough. 😝
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It's unfortunate. I'm remiss to say they need more mods though because the amount of banned users on here is highly concerning. I don't think more mods would help that situation. But the content filter clearly isn't working.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020786#Comment_4020786
Interestingly, the last post was survivor-sided. This one is killer-sided. If it is the same person (as it seems to be, based on time and style), they don't even seem to have a stance. It's just pure, unbiased trolling.
It's all clickbait, so it doesn't matter.
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That's a reach.
- Killer powers or add-ons are unbalanced
You're the one assuming this means "overpowered". Someone could just as easily interpret that as meaning there's no point playing Trapper or Hag because BHVR keeps focusing on changes around Kaneki and Krasue.
- Too much griefing and trolling
This one affects both sides, but it's definitely more of a Killer complaint to me. Survivors experience it from other Survivors and some Killers occasionally, but Killers are the ones that complain the most about teabagging, especially at the exit gates.
- In-game communication is too limited
I'll give you this one, even though it's a general issue. Everyone struggles to communicate with one another. It's common to see Killers asking for advice on how to communicate that they want to farm points during events. But realistically, poor communication is more of a Survivor problem.
- Excessive tunneling and camping
This one naturally, is a Survivor complaint.
Aside from those last two examples, which one is still in the realm of a general complaint in my opinion, all of them are equal. Some affect Killer more than Survivor (like matchmaking), some affect Survivor more than Killer (like friends leaving the game), but I don't think any are so egregious that there should be outrage over it.
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I don't think they've ever insisted it's a party game—that's the players themselves doing that. BHVR has been active in trying to get it to be more competitive for a while now, including backing the tournament scene. They just never fully commit to it.
@cogsturning said:
If you show people their MMR they will use it to invalidate each other. This already happens with people just assuming theirs and other people's brackets.
I can only imagine with how intent people are about sharing their stats.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020763#Comment_4020763
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/31QZS6ST8VW0/image.png
BHVR literally said one of the reasons why the phase 2 changes are happening, was because things like tunneling and camping were some of the most popular selections in the exit surveys.
…The exit surveys that had rigged questions. Popular survivor-sided choices were in the above survey, but popular killer-sided choices were not in the above survey. Of course, the survivor-sided problems are going to look more popular and important, if killers literally couldn't select the popular killer-sided problems.
Context is important:
There is a dialog box at the bottom where you write in anything that isn't listed above (aka "None of the above").
Even you tried to paint it that slugging was mentioned and it wasn't. So it's not a complete list. Additionally, there are several Killer complaints in there. What do you think "character perks" are referring to? Or "matchmaking time"? Or "unfriendly communication"? Or "griefing" and "trolling"? Even unbalanced Killer powers can mean that Killers feel too weak.
Personally, I think it's an incredibly open-ended survey and just because a couple questions have a Survivor slant, that doesn't prevent you from explaining your beef without limitation. I'm inclined to lean more toward what @Firellius was saying, that it might be due to more Survivors quitting and that data being more valuable to them. And if it's not? Who cares because those phase 2 changes were pulled 48 hours after Killers deemed them too problematic. So who won out in the end?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020285#Comment_4020285
It's exactly the same for me. I had to do that 'lose chase after dropping a void crystal' quest this morning, and my hubby stuck his head in the room asking what I kept yelling about. I did not enjoy a single one of those survivor games. I was on edge. Switched to play Freddy afterwards and immediately felt my shoulders relax. I have no one i have to rely on when I play killer, no expectations, it's just me and the game is what I make it. Outside of quests, I just can't play survivor.
It's something that's often overlooked. Unless you're devoted equally to both roles (I'm talking 50/50 across the board), you will always be more invested in one role over the other. The one you care more about is the most frustrating while the one you care less about is the chill role. Literally nothing phases me as Killer and I play incredibly casual, but my Survivor trials are a nightmare because those are the ones I actually want to participate more in.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020699#Comment_4020699
If the survey questions didn't have any choices for camping, tunneling, or slugging, and then BHVR said "camping, tunneling, and slugging obviously can't be a problem because they weren't popular choices in the surveys", would you think that would be fair?
Did they actually say that? Because the reality is worse. Despite the exit survey having an option for tunneling and camping (slugging isn't a checkbox), they still decided to take an incredibly soft stance on it when it came to addressing them.
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That doesn't deviate from a standard trial lmao
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@Royval said:
the devs need to stop balancing over kills and not hooks. I would really love to watch the devs play their game live on stream.
They did a bit when previewing Lights Out and all it did was prove that the game only functions as intended during custom games with friends. In my opinion.
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@Abbzy said:
Such doble standart as always so nothing that surprise me from devs.
Its like trump vs biden debate in one station where the woman ask joe soft question one after another and which icecream he likes the most and than ask trump if he is ready for though question, such one sided option list.
I don't even know what to compare this to because it's people getting upset that "Gens go by too fast" isn't listed with a checkbox and you have to write it down instead.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020433#Comment_4020433
First off, that is completely untrue. I know quite a few people who played killer a majority of the time who have quit.
Second, there are no issues killers have listed on the uninstall survey, so if they are uninstalling then the developers would have no way of knowing what their grievances are. It cannot hurt to add those as options so the devs have that information.Second, there are no issues killers have listed on the uninstall survey, so if they are uninstalling then the developers would have no way of knowing what their grievances are.
The only questions that don't apply to both sides on the survey is "My friends don't play this game anymore" and "Excessive tunneling and camping". You could argue "In-game communication is too limited" as well, but other games in the genre allow players to communicate with everybody so that's a bit of a toss up. The rest are about atmosphere, perks/powers, balancing, grinding, updates, etc. That includes very specific Killer complaints like matchmaking, cheaters, griefing, and people being mean in trial and in chat. Not only that, the question right below it is a dialog box that allows you to write what made you uninstall in your own words.
Not to jump down your throat on it, but this really is a nothing burger.
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@GeordieKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020461#Comment_4020461
they shoud do a polling on both sides not one side regardless if it mainly survivors or killers leaving its a fair and accurate data that can give a clearer picture.
What exactly changed for killers in the 6.1.0? the faster weapon recover and break speed and less speed burst for survivors? survivors still can get to the next loop or pallet so does nothing, increase gen times to 90 seconds gen are still going faster forcing killers into tunneling & camping styles so nothing changed there, bloodlust trigger time reduce again does nothing and the perks changes either been reverted, nerfed or rework to not worth running anymore
thats how i can say 6.1.0 changed nothing for killers because they are in fact placebo buffs looks like buffs but does not change gameplay at all for killers
Don't forget nerfing endgame for Survivor, which is still ongoing. 6.1.0 determined that the final stretch of the game exists primarily to give the Killer a chance to catchup and not a final struggle between both sides.
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My big question is still whether they'll actually read it or not. And if they do, whether they'll log it or not.
In the other thread I mentioned previous surveys where the community was very vocal on specific issues, yet somehow they went the opposite direction post-survey.
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I agree and I would extend that to skill as well. You can absolutely build up skill in DBD, but it pales in comparison to game sense in my opinion. You're better off knowing when the matchmaking has succeeded or failed and adjusting as needed than being able to loop the Killer for 5 minutes every trial.
Like any PVP game, players have optimized the fun out of DBD. But it wasn't equipped to handle that and any measure since then is too hands off to address it.
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I genuinely wonder if Japanese Killer mains think like this as well or if this is a one-off example.
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Based on the thread, my opinion is that the devs probably should've sat back for this one.