UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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It's both and will always be both. It's why the game isn't balanced very well. Without any clear direction of what the game is being balanced around, it's a total mess.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015162#Comment_4015162
Are you a bot or something? You're just ignoring everything and going back to this again. This post is about tunneling and slugging.
I've already expressed my deep indifference to this topic. I don't DC and I also don't care what other people do. Punish them, don't punish them, it doesn't matter to me. This only effects me when multiple opponents DC and now I have to look at the sky why the remaining two unfortunates finish gens.
But if everyone is hungry maybe you should fix the food scarcity issue instead of making the penalty for stealing bread harsher. Killlers don't DC at the rate of survivors, therefore there's an issue amongst survivor players. You can make up whatever reasons you want for why people DC but the core reason is goimg to be mass unhappiness. You don't quit something you're happy with.
And that cycles us back to tunneling and slugging, because those are the issues that appear to cause the most discontent amongst the portion of the playerbase that is vocal about the game. If you really, truly care about DCing (and I don't think you truly do) then you should want changes made to tactics like tunneling and slugging.
Are you a bot or something? You're just ignoring everything and going back to this again. This post is about tunneling and slugging.
That's exactly why I stopped responding. Everything feels very baity and whenever you hit a wall, the subject changes to keep you engaged.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015114#Comment_4015114
Why not? Because it was super unfun and a huge waste of time for killers chasing survivors through the void in past events. Don’t pretend that all survivor teams treat this as a casual, fun mode.
You forgot to mention that fog crystals auto-repair gens which seems awfully strong to me. I’ve had several times already where playing as survivor I was able to finish off gens by putting a crystal on them and running off to distract killer or save a teammate.I’ve had several times already where playing as survivor I was able to finish off gens by putting a crystal on them and running off to distract killer or save a teammate.
Really? They don't last for very many charges at all. Maybe 15? I could see it helping if the gen is nearly done, but I feel like it doesn't make that much of a difference.
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I never understand why they don't communicate these changes. To be perfectly honest, this is the worst time to play with anyone's trust.
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This is a complaint every event now and it's always "being looked into" yet never gets fixed.
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When you don't go into the Void, it's basically just 1v4 with pumpkins. The one nice thing about the Void I've noticed is that it does tend to distract Killer quite a bit (likely due to the 15 hooks challenge) so you sort of get pseudo-stealth out of it.
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@SoGo said:
I would add this:
The killer is allowed to abandon when:
- The exit gates are open and there is no one hooked or slugged.
- This is counted as a win for survivors.
- (Optional condition) The gates have to be open for at least 30 seconds.
I like this too. It feels a little more equal to the Survivor abandon conditions and it's less of an instant cop-out (not that I'm against that, but this is healthier).
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If they changed hit detection, there'd be no reason to.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014659#Comment_4014659
They have been but with this one at least you have the entire life of the Rift to get in done.
True. They're bound to have more Void challenges at least, but it is really terrible.
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@ImWinston said:
- I've been playing DBD regularly for 5 years. The only time I take a break is when a new game comes out that I want to try (most recently, Silent Hill F). I'll never understand those people who complain about everything all the time but keep playing... is it masochism? It's obvious that some things are "crazy" (think of the newly released Krasue), that there are bugs (all online games have them, even the richest and most famous ones), but I always find a reason to have fun. If DBD makes me angry one day (it happens every now and then)... I close DBD and do something else, it's that simple.🤣
I think it preys on people with unhealthy attachment styles. Another place I was active that ran things similarly openly targeted gambling addicts for a similar reason.
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@MDRSan said:
So long as they made it so that it works similar to how it does when a survivor abandons then I don't see the issue. Replace the killer with an effectively AFK bot that does nothing, that way the same bot can be used for any killer. It doesn't need to understand different powers - the game is over. Abandon is conceding the match - not tagging in a bot to play the rest of the match.
This will allow things like trying to complete rift quests for getting hatch to still be accomplished since the survivor has to wait to be the last person on the map in order to accomplish what they need. It would actually be a buff to that but if the killer wants to quit then that's their decision.
I didn't even think of hatch but that's another good point. Same with unhooks/heals during the EGC.
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The event is pretty normal as long as you don't interact with the Void, which is counter-productive since the Void is supposed to be the entire point. 😵 I had more fun kicking 50 pumpkins than throwing a crystal on 5 gens.
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I don't mind trying out your idea.
In my opinion, hatch exists primarily as an anti-bottleneck feature. When the trial slows down, we need something to tip it forward. Pre-nerf, hatch was good at doing that. Post-nerf, it's almost completely negligible.
Personally I'd like to see the old formula brought back (hatch appears when completed gens = # of remaining Survivors + 1) but make it so that it is only eligible to spawn when there are 2 Survivors left. It spawns closed just like it used to and only opens manually with a Key or automatically when 1 Survivor is left.
To me, that creates an ideal system where it functions as it should while also preventing some of the issues it had in the past. Granted, you'll still have scenarios where a duo sacrifices the solos and leaves through hatch, but I'd rather see how it plays out before pre-emptively considering that that makes it a waste to even try.
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014368#Comment_4014368
he wants there to be a bot he can tbag, it makes him feel better than just escaping as soon as possible like a normal person.
Where would you get that when I agreed with your OP? 🤣
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014717#Comment_4014717
sables have got it clocked lol i main sable and its exactly what i would do. best chance of escape in that situation is hatch…. or if i really cant be bothered just run out and join the slug party so i can abandon asap
My trials have gotten so much mileage out of Abandon, which feels unintentional. I'm not sure how it's better than go next on a grand scale.
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@Zuiphrode said:
Star Wars is wildly off theme for DBD. That junk belongs in Fortnite, not here.
The last 6 years of DBD would like a word.
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@runningguy said:
hardly any wonder why the new broken killer was dubbed ghoul 2.0 and why so many people go next and dc at the sight of both killers
Grinding the event today just cause and I only DCed once—my first Krasue trial ever and 3 of us were slugged at 5 gens while the Sable hid in a locker. So it checks out. 😵
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014688#Comment_4014688
Your non-stop “us vs them” posts aren’t helping the situation either
No offense but policing the "us vs them" is just as counter-productive.
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@Xray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014646#Comment_4014646
2026 has gotta be BHVR's redemption arc. They have to bounce back or else its over, these 4 months of no content must be used wisely to plan out the new year.
Things would have to get better first. It's felt like a downward spiral for the last several years. I'm sure they'll come up with some neat ideas and do nothing with them, let systems erode and decay further, and kick up the monetization another notch. If anything does pan out, they'll find some way to undo whatever progress that makes. Which sounds super negative, but if there's anything I'm sure of, it's BHVR's penchant for broken promises and false starts. In my opinion.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014641#Comment_4014641
I disagree, they -have- changed!
They've gotten worse.
Legitimately, killers were more optimistic about balance before 6.1 than they are now.
It is very doom and gloom. 😵 At this point, if nothing is ever good enough, I'm not sure why we can't buff Survivor a bit more. It'll garner an apocalyptic response either way.
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The challenges have been pretty bad lately. 20 trials week one of the Rift was brutal too.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014644#Comment_4014644
Glad to hear killers are bringing the spirit of fun and mutual enjoyment with them.
As always. 😝
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@Bladetech said:
Its kinda insane that we can use a crystal to repair a generator
As far as I can tell it's sort of a glorified BNP. Haven't seen any gens pop with one.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014576#Comment_4014576
yeah and i’m afraid they won’t fix the bug because it’s not a widespread community outcry like how it was during the anniversary event.
Even the Anniversary event was a flop. The exclusive Baermar outfit still hasn't been fixed. Maybe next year.
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The crystals aren't that interesting. Already got hard tunneled 3 trials in. So it's basically par for the course.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014525#Comment_4014525
No. That's not acceptable, because if a patch happened that massively raised kill rates, you know survivors would be complaining non-stop until the changes were reverted.
Demonstrably false, 6.1 happened.
It's sort of funny how powerful 6.1.0 is in an argument just because the Killer complaints haven't changed. 😵
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It's when the game started to feel more like a PvE experience. I've watched autonomy in solo q diminish more and more over the years to the point where it just feels like a total waste of time. At least when the Rift had stuff I was interested in, I was motivated to do challenges. But now? Not interested in it. Even modifiers like 2v8 went from being a ton of fun to somehow feeling worse than the main game (in my opinion). It just feels like there's nothing worthwhile anymore.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014342#Comment_4014342
thats the point, the trial should end. all at the gates waiting to tbag the killer means the game is done….just end it. make it include adepts then lol. abandon is considered a win for the killer when all survivors abandon because the reason why survivors got the abandon option in the first place was to end a match that was already lost at that point.
It doesn't actually end when Survivors abandon though, which is the main difference. Giving Survivors the win in that case would work fine for now, but Killer bots would be the ideal scenario in my opinion.
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014342#Comment_4014342
As someone who never dcs I'm confused, killers don't get a loss when leaving after everyone abandons, why would survivors get a loss after the killers dc's forcing the game to be over? Like oh the killer can abandon in egc and the survivors would win, not that crazy, consistent with survivor abandons as well.
It's obvious how it would work. I genuinely don't care but in terms of equality I don't understand why this wouldn't implemented.
Because when Killer disconnects now, the trial ends and the Survivors don't win. I don't trust that that system wouldn't be replicated unless we had a bot which would guarantee that Survivors could still escape. Call it personal bias, I guess.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014271#Comment_4014271
Its clear they were ready to go live and pull it last second. BHVR being BHVR they left nearly every other change going with it in.
Unlikely but hopefully they fully test the next system in a PTB and shoot for the following mid chapter to bring it live if it passes.
I think if it does come back, it'll be before the end of the year. If not, then who knows.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014192#Comment_4014192
I know I get a lot of heat for it, but there really is some psychological component to Killer mains that I don't fully understand. But it does manifest often times as looking like main character syndrome. And I think appealing to that as strongly as BHVR has for the last several years is really aging the game incredibly fast.
I'm going to disclaimer and say that I fully recognize that this isn't a blanket statement, but it does seem to apply to a small, select (and insanely loud) group. I take that to be what you meant too, but just for anyone else reading, to be clear.
I read it as an ego thing for some people, or possibly narcissism. Some takes on here just don't make sense unless you consider that select individuals begin with the premise that they are "Max MMR" gods at the game, and are entitled to win every match.
If they lose, or even struggle, in even one single match, it can't be that they have to improve... That's impossible, because you can't improve on perfection. The only solution to this is that the game inherently must be unfair.
And, because this is a wound to ego (or in some cases narcissistic injury), it gets expressed as pure emotional response, usually anger and outrage.
Which is also why this group is dead set against anything that isn't a pure killer buff or survivor nerf.
They've deluded themselves into believing that the game is broken already, because the only other option is that they, maybe, possibly, might not be as good at the game as they think they are.
And that's not even something they can consider.
For sure, it's just my observation based on lurking/posting on different platforms over the years and if it doesn't apply to someone then they shouldn't take it personally.
I agree. I almost wanna say it's the role itself that creates that narcissistic attitude. Being the 1 in the 1v4 contributes to that somewhat, but it's hard to say if that's the only reason. I'm still figuring it out.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014318#Comment_4014318
I've had conversations with friends about this. The killer role, being a solo power role that is essentially the central focal point of the match around which everything else revolves, attracts a certain sort of person. It has to be a minority. I'm far from the type, and many killer players express a sort of performance anxiety on the forums. I just like horror, and I was a killer-only player for awhile because I did so bad at everything in survivor that I didn't want to be damaging to a team. I preffered being responsible solely for my own outcome. But some of these people have projected themselves onto these killers in kind of a creepy way and any threat to the identity they associate with winning as them is earth shattering.
Very much this too. I think humiliation and a sense of control factor into it greatly. It's why the types it does apply to get so bent out of shape over social elements like bagging at the gates, but are totally fine with oppressive aspects of the game that don't affect them. Not saying anything with DBD is that serious, but it is interesting to unravel.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014305#Comment_4014305
when survivors abandon i dont think it considers it forfeit for the killer, so i would imagine if killer got the abandon option then it wouldnt be forfeit for the survivors
Because:
@BlightAbuser said:
It’s not hard to just push them out. Survivors can abandon because it doesn’t affect you at all. If killer abandons, the game is over for everybody. It makes sense to me.
There's no Killer bots yet, so the trial would end. If it's treated like it currently is when a Killer DCs, that'd be unfair for Survivors working toward Adepts and things of that nature. We'd have to have the abandon be considered a win, or we'd need Killer bots to be a thing.
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I don't think that many people are against the Killer surrendering during EGC as long as the Survivors are able to escape without it being considered a forfeit on their end.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014213#Comment_4014213
I don't care much for bully squads either, and they are not common to see.
Every so often I might run into the odd team of flashlights + head ons, but they are really easy to play around.
And like you said, tunneling is a huge pain-point, especially among survivors. I don't tunnel when I play killer, and I honestly have no intention to do so either, because I know how terrible I feel as a survivor on the receiving end.And lastly, tunneling is absolutely zero fun.
Zero fun often leads to DC's
DC's leads to eventual penalties
Penalties ultimately leads to people quitting.
Solution = Make tunneling less effective, and in turn, less prevalent.To piggyback off of this as well, the results typically aren't the same. I'd be willing to bet bully squads lose more often than not because of the amount of resources it takes to maintain that playstyle, while hardcore camping/tunneling/slugging (at least in my experience) wins more trials because of how difficult it is to combat while cranking out all 5 gens and opening the gates.
It's essentially "I really hate dealing with these a-holes but at least I stomped them" vs. "I really hate dealing with this a-hole and there was nothing I could do about it". That impacts players very differently.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014225#Comment_4014225
I assume they're biased towards money, and the killer role does the selling.
I would agree there too.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014202#Comment_4014202
The phase 2 changes were completely out of control, and the people that thought they were fine as they were, are the real biased people.
I can’t even imagine being so survivor sided, to think the phase 2 changes would have been healthy for the game, if they went live as they were on the PTB.
Of course you couldn't because I don't think you care about Survivor. I don't hold that against you either. But I'm telling it like it is.
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013277#Comment_4013277
And people are asking for the same mistake to be made in phase 2. Half backed solutions that hurt the game more than helps. Instead of making bad changes and ripping them out a week later, lets test thing out in the PTB where issues can be discovered and resolved.
That's where I think pulling it overall was a good idea. What shot their credibility for me however, was how quickly they pulled it and how some of the Survivor nerfs still made it through anyway. Personally it reads less like they want to encourage health and more like they don't want to piss off the wrong people.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014204#Comment_4014204
On my experience people there more likely playing sfw. Or prefer to hop on killer instead, at least I had such impression playing against Chinese and Japanese players
And if you are playing sfw, queue would likely being higher
Few months ago people on Asian servers preferred killer role more as well as I remember
That makes sense.
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@Dem34888 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NA3T2I5QHPCV/image.png
Yes, the que time for killers have decreased, it used to be 8-10 minutes, now it's 2
Yesterday at 7 PM, the que time for survs were 2 minutes, and for killers like 6 seconds
Playing on killers has become more difficult because of palletes density (not just my opinion)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZT7ct2spIk
Also, there's some crazy stuff happening with matchmaking/generators repair speed (my opinion)Seeing a Survivor drought on Asian servers is pretty interesting.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014192#Comment_4014192
Do you personally think the majority of survivors or frequently ragequitting?
Because if you don’t personally think the majority of survivors are frequently ragequitting, even though some of their games are frustrating, then why is it they can’t manage to play through their games?
I wouldn't say the majority. At least not anymore since the changes. But I also don't think it's a rare thing either.
Those are two different arguments. Ragequitting is a symptom of what I already said is the biggest issue: a lack of fun. There are multiple ways you can express that. I'd say most of us here would know exactly what I'm talking about when I say, "play one trial, sit in the menus for an hour". There's also ways to give up in the trial without leaving, including sitting on a gen until you're ripped off of it, antagonizing the Killer for fun, sandbagging, refusing to touch gens and focusing on side objectives only, AFKing, etc.
As to why they stay, Survivors are historically resilient. Those first two weeks of 6.1.0 were BRUTAL and yet they still queued up. Even now with all of these anti-health health changes, they're still queueing up. A lot less for sure, but they're still here. However I think expecting them to stick around forever without throwing them a bone (or giving them something like the pallet update which we all know isn't gonna last for long) is unrealistic. The anti-tunnel/slug system was putting a good step forward toward solving that problem, but we saw how that turned out.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014021#Comment_4014021
It's almost as though one issue is seriously affecting the games health and the other is overblown.
I had 6 killer matches today. One match had two peopele bot out. Another had one. In both instances, the team was cooked. There was zero hope. It had no impact on the assured outcome.
I won't pretend that people don't leave winnable games all of the time, but if you develop any game sense with DBD you learn when a match is over and when it's not with only a slight margin of error. I think that's something that's missing from the conversation a lot.
@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013934#Comment_4013934
Just about every other online game does it.
Ragequitters either get banned, put in low priority queue or gets put with other ragequitters.
Cant believe how many are still defending ragequits.
The thing is any time those sorts of systems that are commonplace in other games have been implemented into DBD, it's a disaster. DBD has always seemed to do better with systems that don't really appear to be viable in most PVP games. Plus, beyond the problems presented with the genre alone, the game also isn't in a balanced enough state to handle systems like that.
If you want to try them anyway, you have to think of it like this: a Band-Aid can fix a boo-boo, but it can't fix a gash. You need to address the larger issues first before simpler fixes have any impact.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm just going to jump in and point out something about the forums meta here.
This thread. Right here. It's exactly the problem with discussing anything about tunneling.
It applies to far, far more, but you can look at the history of posts on this forum, and every single time recently that there's been a thread gaining traction about survivor issues (which is usually tunneling) we get this:
A completely derailed thread from a small handful of extremely loud and insanely biased (to the point of being just rage bait) commenters who take a thread about "when are we getting the postponed changes" into "punish them harder".
Which wouldn't be so frustrating, except this is the exact kind of tactic that gets anti tunneling pulled (effectively cancelled for all we know at this point) on day 2, and also could get "go next" tuned up to punish even more innocent players with penalties.
You simply cannot have a discussion about this problem because a few people just have to do this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9UHBRD7C9SCN/1000010969.jpg
And they'll just keep doing it because it's worked for years.
I know I get a lot of heat for it, but there really is some psychological component to Killer mains that I don't fully understand. But it does manifest often times as looking like main character syndrome. And I think appealing to that as strongly as BHVR has for the last several years is really aging the game incredibly fast.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014069#Comment_4014069
Meanwhile, any conversation about ragequitting problems has to devolve into people massively over exaggerating how often Go Next makes false positives.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014061#Comment_4014061
You don’t need to over-exaggerate this. Yes, the normal queue time would go up, but not by so much that the majority of players would care. I’m sure most players would be happy with maybe a few extra seconds added to their queue times, if it meant a severe reduction with ragequitters in their games.
Again, the majority of players are actually playing through their games, even if they are frustrating. It’s really just a small percentage of survivors that are ruining lots of games for other people.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014011#Comment_4014011
But why is it that most people can manage to play through all their games? Do you really think most players don’t have games that feel frustrating? Do you really think most players don’t have games where they feel like something unfair is happening?
And why isn’t bully squads on the official roadmap? Bully squad survivors, whose main goal is to ruin the fun of their opponents, isn’t a game problem? But killers, they are using game strategies to try to win a game, are a game problem?
I believe fun is lacking, so naturally I think most players don't have fun. They want to have fun, but that's not the same thing. As far as most players not quitting early, I have no idea how to answer that because it feels like the opposite argument you were making just a few posts ago.
You can't address behavior, only the tools used. We saw the evidence of that with anti-go next. Those tools can be addressed and they often have. With camping/tunneling/slugging, it's a little different. We did have the tools and now we don't. It's time to address that.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013921#Comment_4013921
The perk needs completely reworked. It has no place in modern DbD.
I agree. You're just shooting yourself in the foot in that case.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013996#Comment_4013996
Not helped by the way the only changes that stuck around of the anti-tunnel/slug update are nerfs to perks that counter tunnelling and slugging.
Exactly. That's why I bring up the amount of things that are pushed live and left as is or changed for the worse. I don't think it would've been good for the game for anti-tunnel/slug to be pushed as it was out of spite, but I'm equally unsure why it wasn't when that's how they do things. There's really only one answer that makes sense there.
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@BlightAbuser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014012#Comment_4014012
Without any exaggeration, I’d say 80-85% of my games, survivors brought Macmillan. Some of the swfs tonight would bring ormond, Macmillan, autohaven simultaneously.
I can believe it. I just don't see the point after the changes.
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I feel like people would get very upset about these options, thinking they'd give you a huge advantage. 😭 But they're reasonable changes and I'd welcome them.
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@BlightAbuser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012776#Comment_4012776
yup. I’ve been trying to play some m1 killers, and even as a vet (since release) killer main, some of these maps have so many safe pallets that there is genuinely nothing I can do. Even with corrupt and brutal, it’s not possible to end chases fast enough to apply any type of pressure.
Survivors know it too. I’ve been getting nonstop map offerings to Macmillan. After some particularly frustrating matches, I threw blight back on and called it a night.People still run map offerings? 😵
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013991#Comment_4013991
Nope. I’m not going to entertain this garbage false positive theory, that’s so rare that it literally takes over two months to get one single video evidence of it happening. The false positives aren’t happening often enough for me to care.
There’s nothing preventing people from purposely trying to enter the ragequitting queue. As long as they are banned from being in my games, I don’t care what they are doing in the ragequitting queue.
Fair enough.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013967#Comment_4013967
Exactly. Tunneling is the main cause for DC.
Sure, some people do DC if they are found first, but maybe they have played a lot of games beforehand where they have been tunneled out, and they don't want more repeats of that.And yes, I too will DC because of tunneling if it goes too far, especially against krasues who are dead set on tunneling, who also runs bamboozle and dissolution, or Oni. I can't stand the way people play Oni these days.
It isn't fun. That is core issue, and why people just want to go next faster.I have also seen a lot of killers DC as well, so this is not a survivor-exclusive problem.
I'd elevate the fun argument. I think people DC/give up the most when they're not having fun and there's a laundry list of reasons behind that. Camping/tunneling/slugging is a major one, as are bully squads. So are endless trials or trials that end too quickly. Many times there are personal reasons, like DCing on first down. But at the end of the day, fun is a major component of any game and it doesn't feel like the highest priority most of the time. In my opinion.
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A little late—I meant to watch the video as soon as I saw the thread.
You summed up a lot of my thoughts very accurately. I've seen how companies adjacent to BHVR operate and I've known for a long time how the game has been treated and the path it will go down. Granted, it's all speculation on my part, but I believe that the passion to improve the game has been gone for a very long time like you said. The most important thing is to "reinvent" in the short term, pouring money into projects they know are going to fail. Frankly, idiotic ventures that will not release them from DBD as their sole namesake. I doubt the inappropriate handling of money ends there. But I don't know, I wasn't there. Meanwhile they bank on our nostalgia and our pitiful hopes that the game will get better, even if deep down we know that it won't. That being said, I don't foresee DBD "dying" in a literal sense. At one point I expected it to become a fashion game primarily, but the fashions are getting hilariously bad and the cosmetic bugs are constant and slow to fix. I don't believe the art department is thriving there. Instead, I think licenses are their end goal. Eventually they will run out, but after a decade they still refuse to look at the bigger picture so it's no surprise.
Beyond that, I have always hated the "poor multimillion dollar indie dev" and "we should be thankful" arguments with BHVR as well. As if we should feel apologetic for being, in all honesty, taken advantage of. That our feedback falling on deaf ears (which I believe extends to their paid/official consultants as well) or any changes to trick us into spending more time and money on the game for lesser and lesser returns is in any way, shape, or form acceptable. That the amount of bans we STILL see here regularly, that the handling of their social media channels, that the horrific PR (as you've mentioned), and so on are all somehow positive things. We SHOULD demand more and we SHOULD be very vocal about it.
As far as DBD 2 goes, I think it could be possible. Maybe not the way that we imagine, but I can see it. Very doubtful that anything we've purchased thus far would be transferred over or comped (unless something has changed, but based on their rage-inducing responses to players that lose their inventories due to circumstances beyond their control, I don't think it has). But at the very least, it could be a fresh start. Maybe they swallow their pride and sell the IP to Epic and that's when it happens. Maybe it does burn out like you speculate and there's a revival in a decade. Maybe "DBD 2" is just DBD hosted on fan servers with mod support. I'm not sure. But it's hard for me to believe that it won't continue in some form.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the video and I'm glad you put your perspective out. Not many people are as invested or as honest about things. And just in case anyone gets upset with me, all of this as always is in my opinion. 😵
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The fact that so many believe they were purposely introduced to nerf the Survivor bloodweb really says everything, I think. Regardless of the intention, we're seeing that it's a relatively common belief that BHVR sabotages the game and lies about it. Personally, I would think that as a developer, I would want to change that reputation as quickly as possible. And yet it feels like they're only doubling down.
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That's a fair question. It's one that should have an answer, but all that anyone can say is "don't play". We were going to have better counter play for those scenarios, but who knows when that'll actually happen now.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/458476/i-wanna-say-something-a-little-positive
OH yes, and the thing is, I think even if they don't say it, people do love the game. That's why they complain so much. They want the game to be better. If they truly hated the game, they would just uninstall it and be done.
That said, posts like yours are VERY IMPORTANT to remind us of this.That applies to ragequits and the like too, imo. The players want to love the game and they still hold out hope, but they end up disappointed far too often.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013974#Comment_4013974
I would happily agree to longer queue times, if it means my games won't be ruined by frequent ragequitters.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013969#Comment_4013969
It benefits the quality of matchmaking, because the rule-abiding survivors that actually play out their games, won't have their games ruined by frequent ragequitters anymore.
Well, like @CrypticGirl said, if it's so common, then the ragequitter queue is going to move much faster to the point that ragequitting would make the most sense to do. If it's not that common, then it means that even the non-ragequitting queue would still have a fair amount of ragequits. And like anti-go next, the system used to determine ragequits would possibly open the door to punishing players who aren't doing it, further impacting the queue.
In that case, what would prevent Survivors from deciding to purposely ragequit to enter a queue that is less likely to punish them anyway than staying in one that doesn't and walking on eggshells?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013962#Comment_4013962
The queue time doesn't need to be a priority for frequent ragequitters. They are already supposed to get time penalties, so BHVR can just shift the time penalties into having a longer queue time for their ragequitter's queue.
And that benefits the queue how? It's removing more players that aren't being replaced.
