UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Mane said:
The fact that they're not reworking a killer perk, doesn't feel like a balance or Fair update.
I use the word "Fair" because that's the word the Devs used when explaining why they're reworking mft.
You are aware this isn't the last ever update DBD is going to get right?
There are Killer perks I think that need looking at, but MFT has been riding high for months, the data is in, and it needed dialing back. Survivors recently got bots, AFC, Xeno nerfs, Skull Merchant nerfs, great perks on Gabriel, Ripley and Nick Cage... noone really cared about those perks cause MFT was so much better.
Everyone is acting like it's a dead perk, it's not... it's still a good perk that helps vs. Tunneling AND Slugging, but it isn't the meta redefining perk it was before. A perk doesn't have to be better than Sprint Burst to be worth running.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576593#Comment_3576593
It's not necessarily this update in particular (I've never even used MFT outside of Gabriel's adept, so it's not like i'll miss it), it's just the accumulation of many small things (from calm spirit still not being reverted to vaults breaking multiple times since the Nicolas Cage update) and the way the Trickster update was worded that flipped the switch because it just sounds so backwards to me. Like honestly if they had just said "Trickster is weak we're buffing him" I wouldn't have cared, it's just the acknowledgment that Trickster is frustrating to face and the "solution" which just sounds a whole lot like they have no clue what makes him unfun for survivors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576595#Comment_3576595
Honestly I think I've just ran out of patience, I've been an advocate for "let's just wait until the PTB / until it goes live / surely it'll be tweaked in a couple weeks" for so long I just don't want to anymore lol. But as you said, I've been way too involved in this game to just drop it forever, so I'll probably keep an eye on it and come back in a year or something haha, but thank you <3
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576599#Comment_3576599
I don't care about MFT nerf beyond the fact that BHVR is proving once again that they don't know how to nerf OP perks without making them either useless or super niche. I literally only used the perk once (not counting PTB), and technically I've been a killer main since before the Singularity chapter.
The downside of calm spirit is a sad case to be fair... Though I think its a band aid fix for hex builds, as hexes are typically pretty weak in the meta currently. They are however somewhat supported by screams... so Calm Spirit being immune to screams indirectly makes hex builds even worse... I would hope that with an appropriate hex rework (which I'm sure is on the map somewhere) would see this change removed.
The vaults is definitely a problem, but that is a pretty huge bug... and devs will be trying to get sorted ASAP for sure. Female characters are inherently more popular, so you can bet that bug is a major money flow problem and high priority.
Fair observations on Trickster, I myself can see potential problems. I'm worried specifically about unhooking going against the fast Main Event charge.... I think these changes are primarily to make him better for console.
I played him on console and I don't think he's too bad to play, at least compared to comparable difficult killers (Deathslinger, Hillbilly and Nurse). However I can see against strong survivors I'd probably get dabbed on... I think these changes will be overtuned as they are, but the core principle doesn't seem tooooo bad to me.
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Sorry you feel that way dude, though I would contest that survivors isn't a dead role just because MFT got nerfed. Sprint Burst and Adrenaline are still Hella good perks for Survivor.
We also got Troubleshooter, Lucky Star and Light-Footed, Plot Twist and Dramaturgy that are all good perks, and the reworked Background Player is kinda bonkers... just they've been dwarfed by the MFT brokenness so noone bothers with them most games.
Trickster buff is a wait and see for me, and surely subject to change... its not like its set in stone, and will be toned back if too much. The killer consistently underperforms at almost all levels of play, so it's good to know they're actually looking at making him more accessible and unique as a rapid fire killer.
Blight I'm with you... I don't understand the lack of trigger pull on that...
I'm personally against the FOMO argument, as has been well established, so I won't go there...
Not that I'm trying to convince you to stay or anything, just not sure why this update specifically broke you... survivors recently got bots, the AFC and Skull Merchant nerfs all in one update, they got turret buffs and tail nerfs vs. Xeno, and they got Nick before that... survivors got a lot in the last few updates...
So a needed MFT nerf and a Trickster rework breaks you? I don't get it...
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@gabrielfan1983 said:
I just learned Made For This is getting "re worked" cause killers again whined and whined to devs. Taking the haste away cause low skill killers can't get easy hits or want to learn to beak loops. The chase peek meta became meta due to the valt re work being reworked cause again, killers whined that the were 'missing' valt hits and loosing chases. Maybe killers could practice instead of relying if devs to make it easier. It's rare for any killer perk to be nerphed. How would all killers having ultimate weapon no longer causes survivor to scream? Killers got self healing taking out, med kits nerphed to two heal max, boons worthless, dead hard neutered, etc. True you can't face camp with our a kolby timer but you can still proxy steps away from hook, or just use wraith to face camp. Also MFT was not the end all be all when a survivor was chased. Only that it might give you the chance to valt successfully, killers still had a major speed advantage. The game is designed that all killers can out run a survivor.
Your post is quite aggressive and insulting to killers, so my natural instinct was to respond in kind.
Instead I'll try and point out the problem of MFT. You say it's a skill issue.... MFT was a subtle perk that messed with the timing of every mind game and interaction killers had with survivors.
A lot of the stronger killers can brute force their way around Mind Games with strong dashes and gap close that severely reduces the tiles strength for survivors E.g. Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Spirit. Other killers have to rely on more mind games at loops to catch survivors, and the weakest killers have almost nothing in their kit that helps them at loops, so have to rely purely on mind games.
So as a killer using purely mind games, how exactly is anyone supposed to develop their skill at mind games with MFT around? You have this subtle perk that is hard to tell if it is in effect or not, that is making the timing of those mind games inconsistent... I now have to account for my skill, the players skill, the speed of my character, the tile and distances involved AND I now have to also guess on whether MFT is effect or not. Seeing it in the end game lobby doesn't help me learn my in game timings and develop my "skill". Even bloodlust is at least predictable.
The usual counter is "it's only 3%, you can't even tell its in effect", and my response is, if that's so weak, why do you bother running it and complaining its nerfed? Clearly it does a lot for you to care.
MFT hurts weaker chase killers way more than stronger chase killers. There is a reason Killers play the big 4 more often, they don't like dealing with this speed inconsistency, so they pick the killers that don't care about it. Some of us want to play the weaker lillers cause we find them fun... but MFT makes those games significantly harder. No matter what you think about the balance of MFT, tell me why, if everyone is running MFT all the time and screwing with mind game timings, anyone should ever play any other character in the roster instead of the killers that don't care about it?
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I have changed mine to:
- R1 - Interact
- R2 - Use Item
- L1 - Action/Skill Check
- L2 - Sprint
- Triangle - Pick Up/Drop Item
- Circle - Crouch
- Cross - Use Ability 1
- Square - Use Ability 2
- Up and Down for taunts
This bypasses a lot of the cross over actions, keeps the shoulder buttons for the timing specific actions like skill checks, vaults and pallets, and uses the triggers for non time critical actions.
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@Talwuzhere said:
Tricksters biggest weakness imo was his slow movement speed and low map control. If you took him to any high wall loop he was pretty much useless, especially if he held his knives looping as he was slowed. Buffing his speed makes him much more enjoyable to play.
I don't really have an opinion on his recoil as I play pc and correcting wasn't much of a problem. Console players seemed to struggle so I think it's good for em.
Main event was also a pain as you needed to hit 30 knives AND be in an optimal position to use it. I can't tell you how many times I had main event ready to proc but couldn't use it as I had already downed someone or they were simply too far away. Not being able to use his power and losing it either way was so punishing. I do think it could do to have a higher hit count (even 15 is nice) so his power is actually useable regardless.
His changes aren't all buffs. Having the laceration meter change from 15 to 10 seconds doesn't sound like much but I enjoyed getting that LAST hit when I much needed it after failing to hit someone for a bit of time. This also includes there requiring more knives to fill up said meter.
The change to his iri add on photocard being haste is also a sad change. I dislike haste on anything. It being an automatic expose was fun lol.
Regardless if hes too OP in the PTB, some of these changes may not make it to live. We have time to test and see but for now, I think trickster is in a much better place. I'd love to see more of him in the fog.
The laceration decay I would imagine will also be a bigger deal as each stack will be smaller percentage of the total, so you will lose stacks faster.
The Main Event change seems good to make him actually have it be a factor you regularly play around rather than just be the unfortunate one who he happened to get it on at the right time. Though I'm not sure how one would combat his tunnel off hook when he can injure/down the unhooker during the unhook animation, and use main event to chew through BT on the survivor coming off hook.
Maybe the 8 stacks with the AFC giving better angles would be enough? If not, feels like there may need to be some kind of trade off...
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575777#Comment_3575777
Indeed and I can kite the killer for all generators usually with any perks, however, let's not ignore the fact that most people that play this game are casual players. Not hardcore.
You do not want to mess with casual player base perks and "balance" around hardcore players, which are much more few and far inbetween. FFXIV is extremely successful, because it caters to the most common gamer, the casual playerbase.
This post again has rationalization. Sigh.
This forum is getting exhausting for me, it's like I keep having to explain over and over. I don't use MFT, I tried it with a healing build as I wanted to see how it worked. I don't have issues kiting, so I switched to smash hit instead. Killers on the regular rage quit against me. I don't care.
Anyway, numbers won't lie, and if this perk is now in such an amazing spot and balanced sooooo well, I'm sure the pick rate and usefulness will be as high as windows! Why didn't I think of that? Jeez.
It is so obvious it was a character selling perk, only to be nerfed later. I see this with killer and survivor alike. A fool and his money are soon parted so I'm sure this cycle will continue and this stuff will sell quite well. Kind of smart really, I guess.
But not as smart as catering to the casuals :) My Bfs gaming company does and we make quite a lot of money, the game is he the lead of makes tons and tons of money and they certainly don't pull this kind of stuff. But hey what do I know :)
The big issue with releasing new content, is a phenomenon you see in all of gaming.
If you make that new content underpowered, then the initial impression is that it's bad and not worth anything. The people who do buy it get upset that their money is wasted, and cry out, and unless you buff it to insane degrees, that first impression unfortunately sticks, and it takes months or even years to shake it off even if it is then balanced.
If you make things overpowered, then people buy it, love it, and your first impression is really good, it sells well... then it starts to cause problems in your game. You now have to nerf it... which comes with huge loss aversion blowback, as we're seeing now with MFT. If you don't nerf it, you've now got to raise everything else up to the same level, and that then introduces power creep as the new problem.
So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Ideally everything is balanced day 1... but that's unrealistic to expect... so unfortunately just cause of the market, us players kinda force developers to release content in an overpowered state to be on the safer side of making money on that new content... and devs then have to then decide between power creep and loss aversion nerfs.
The latter is better for game health by a country mile because power creep has destroyed many many games, but the former is better for community relations, cause people hate losing things way more than the positive feeling they get gaining things.
So sadly there is no right answer really unless you as developer trust yourself to nail balance perfectly every time... and I don't think anyone on earth can pull that off.
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@Seraphor said:
Everything else is great news.
MFT got the Ruin treatment though. For how situational it is now, it deserves to be 5%.
You did read it has no exhaustion condition now right? I'd say the fact you can take your normal exhaustion perk and have the extra cushion of MFT on top, that still makes it perfectly viable, especially combined with DH or OTR.
What's really nice is the secondary effect actually makes sense to the perk now, the deep wound speed boost is actually relevant to the endurance effect.
This change pushes it to become a skill players anti tunnel perk, as well as an anti-slug perk.
You could even run it with We're Gonna Live Forever for laughs recreating a fast recovery version of Buckle Up... even though its no longer the borken meta redefining perk it was before, it is a perk that has interesting build synergies we can happily use for fun.
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You do realise that any perk that is strong for solo Q is even stronger for a coordinated SWF team right? If a perk is overtuned for soloQ, you bet your butt it is WAAAAY overtuned for SWF...
I'm a perma-soloQ player myself, and I refuse to use overtuned perks because you become reliant on them and they encourage bad habits. Solo Q should be given reasonable knowledge to make team decisions like a SWF does. The HUD was a great change to bridge the gap. The main one I want now is the ability to see my teams perks, if not in lobby, at least in game, so I can make better team based decisions.
Having a strong perk that is overcompenstating for lack of commuinication of solos is not how you make a game fair. You only really need to nerf overtuned perks... but overtuned perks, you need to nerf.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574987#Comment_3574987
If you play them at all properly you'll find out that you actually do need to do that. Frenzy chains often do not end with a down (unless you're running Pills/Sketch but NSP is busted).
One advantage is Deep Wound means survivors aren't doing gens, so since you can see their deep wound status, I don't think it'll be too bad for Legion tbh.
MFT will mean those survivors will WANT to get hit by feral frenzy and deliberately loop inefficiently. Smart Legions could well use their frezy to bait that survivor to taking that deliberately poor step and cancel giving them a better chance of converting for a proper m1.
Now Deathslinger might have it a little rough on the other hand...
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Eh, maybe. I used to play MOBA's, be in FPS clans, and knew a lot pretty toxic people in MMORPGs and alike to name a few.... I've always found the argument "DBD is such a toxic game" really funny... cause literally every online game is toxic :D
It's relative what you count as toxic tbh... but it's always amazed me how people's behaviour towards each other radically shifts when they have the anonymity of a computer screen to hide behind.
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Still want the ability to see teammates perks before the match begins, just so I know about things like Deliverance, Autodidact, Mettle Of Man, so I can work with my teammates to make best use of their perks.
Sadly it would be used by survivors to lobby shop... the point of discussion here is exactly the problem for why we can't have this blatantly great quality of life improvement... I'd guesstimate that about 40% of gamers are rude, and the reason we can't have nice things... 😥
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This is actually quite smart, it makes MFT a more anti-tunnel perk if you use things like OTR. It also synergises really well with Dead Hard. Gives you value, but you don't get it for free, and the killer does have counter play if they get caught out by it.
I might start actually running it cause it's nowhere near the scummy perk it was.
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The mori video in the corner of the skin store is a nice feature. Would like to see that in character select and for other killers as a standard thing.
Perhaps this is the first step to equippable moris 😱
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Also not to mention the number of players who just give up the moment they see SM. Even the day of her reworks release people were giving up without even trying to play against her.
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I personally have never really seen the point of the whole flag thing in general tbh... but since it is a thing...
I also don't see any harm in asking for it.
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Its a niche perk, but Ive been finding success with Spirit Fury and Enduring on my Pig. Your slow down comes from your head traps combined with Deadlock to ensure you have a good trap activation economy, and between the 2 you have pretty good slow down and a little more potency around pallets that can really punish greeding.
Its most effective at the start when people don't know you have it, and can catch someone by surprise to get your trap slowdown going while everyone is still a little blase'.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573349#Comment_3573349
I've been watching Saw since the very first film and seen them all save for Spiral and X. I'm a fan and I think Jigsaw is fine.
It's not a great film, but it's fine. Though I also don't ever expect that the disciples will ever be as good as John was because they do not have the same reasoning for doing what they are doing that John had. I go into each film with the explicit understanding that it needs to not be measured against the first 4 films or else it is going to be impossible to actually find anything to enjoy. I think Jigsaw has plenty of things to enjoy on it's own which is why I suggest it.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. But don't speak as if you speak for all fans of Saw.
Hehehee, I'm just having a over the top nerd rant for fun man, apologies if I came across as though I was running you down, was not my intention... if you like it, that's fine. 😏
My objective analysis of Jigsaw is there are several major issues that are completely illogical within the films own plot, and a huge deviation from the Saw franchises core driving narrative. This means that even with a very biased initially positive stance towards the film, I still ended up hating it.
I'm sure as mutual fans of the series we could have a great discussion about it, however I'm pretty darned confident I could punch a serious hole in your love of the film... and I don't want to taint something you like just for the sake of it. That's not an insult to your opinion, just the problems I've identified are inexcusable to my mind once you notice them... to the point that the few positives the film had are dwarfed into insignificance by the core failings of the plot.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573349#Comment_3573349
You mean Saw 3D didn't faze you at all? You had faith in the franchise before Jigsaw?
Jigsaw was actually a huge step up from Saw 3D, and basically anything with Hoffman in it.
Saw X is good.
I was warned to never watch Saw 3D, or Spiral, sadly I didn't get that same warning for Jigsaw 😅
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573349#Comment_3573349
I disliked Spiral more...
But jigsaw also wasn't good...
I haven't watched Spiral cause I'm afraid of having a nerd aneurism... thank you for confirming my fears are well-founded 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
MFT cannot be compared in the slightest to UW. Opening a locker takes zero talent and skill. However, if a casual looper (which is majorty of this game is) equips MFT, it's not going to do much and I've seen them go down...FAST.
The argument has no premise. Its easily shut down.
UW is just goofy. Open a locker and get survivor locations, wow, how'd you manage to do that? I'm in awe of your gaming abilities and talent. Please teach me your ways. How do I do it, I think I'll need a 45 minute YT tutorial on how to use UW. Anyone have one to help me out?
But looping better, nah, that's ezclap. No one surely would make long videos to teach that, it's spoon fed to us yo. Please stop, my sides, all six of them, can only take so much 😭
I heavily criticise both perks as they have the same problem. They both are 2 perks in 1, and they widen the gulf between the strongest and weakest killers
MFT hurts the weak killers way more than the strong killers.
UW buffs the strong killers way more than the weak killers.
I'd be happy to see both perks heavily gutted.
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In a similar player behaviour on hook note...
For some reason I like it when a player tries to do non-fatal self-unhook attempt as I'm about to get to them safely... it costs me unhook points if they actually succeed, but for some reason I just enjoy watching the animation...
Kinda feels like you race in save someone who is genuinely dying/struggling to get off hook and escape I suppose...
Also is just an acknowledgement of 'I see you!' 😅
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Not quite sure I understand, still trying to piece together how one would make a comparison of Prestige to Racism with a straight face...
However outsideof that, I definitely feel like the reporting needs to be overhauled, especially for console.
All I can do is report in one if 4 vague categories. I don't even get the ability to type a message. The annoying part is PS5 has functionality to capture recent gameplay quite easily, so I could actually make a decent report if the game allowed me to... but I have no doubt my reports are totally ignored right now.
I still do it on principle for DC and SoH players, but it's frustrating 😒
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Should definitely not watch Jigsaw... please never promote that film and forget it exists...
I was right in the middle of my new player DBD hype, full Pig fan boy grin on my face. Watched the first 6 Saw films, enjoyed them all, skipped Saw 3D cause that also doesn't exist, and decided to check this film out.
I have never been in the middle of a franchise high during a film as hard as I was watching Jigsaw... honestly you could have almost done anything and I'd have lapped it up... but man...
Every scene that went by kept knocking a chip off my enthusiasm; I was still fanboying hard, watching and enjoying but it kept taking knocks... stupid ######### that made no sense with the core concept of Saw blatantly absent. I kept shrugging it off and letting myself go with the film, but the repeated logical and narrative screw ups were slowly eating away at my forgiveness...
Then we got to the silo scene... and the rake... and to quote Popeye "that's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more...". My rose-tinted fanboy glasses didn't just crack, they snapped clean in two, and I went from happy wide-eyed fan, to full angry nerd rant mode in a single instant. I couldn't even finish the film I was that angry... my mate did watch it to completion to see if I was overreacting or missing something, and in so doing he became just as irate as me.
This anecdote is obviously not evidence the film is bad... but honestly outside of my personal opinion, there is so much objectively wrong/contradictory to the point of Saw in it, it's a miracle someone managed to screw it up so badly....
I doubt anyone wants a 10 page essay explaining why... But please... never recommend that film again... it brings nothing but pain to Saw fans... 😥
EDIT: I've heard Saw X is actually pretty damned good. Same writers as Jigsaw, but they seem to have done their research this time, so I'm hopeful they've finally figured out the point of Saw and done the job right...
Would be happy for some Saw skins and alike... don't think there's enough for a new killer though...
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I liked old Buckle Up. Wasn't strong, but was one of those weird fun perks to try and make a build around.
New Buckle Up encroaches on other perks territory, and is just a better version overall, namely We're Gonna Live Forever and 1/2 of MFT. Current Buckle Up seems to me to be a ham-fisted method of shoving it into the meta.
While it isn't as obnoxious outside of the FTP combo, it is kinda boring to just slap yet another endurance tool in for survivors, and ofc endurance can and does get used aggressively by survivors to get free body blocks to the gate.
The haste effect would have been OK, and perfectly on brand for the perk if it was actually strong and could get you away from the Killer when you used it to counter slugging, but 10% isn't good enough warrant it's use. 20% would have been fine to reset a slug.
Since we have new Buckle Up though, FTP needs to be considered a health exchange, not healing for the purpose of interactions.
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572237#Comment_3572237
I prefer the current situation over teammates throwing a fit and start throwing down pallets and so on to be honest.
Eh fair point. To each their own.
Personally, the possibility of the Killer identifying it (or when I'm playing Killer myself), downing them and letting the whole team of survivors teabag them mercilessly is a thought that warms my cold dead soul. 😁
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I personally maintain there are almost no reasons to 99% a gate unless you fear Blood Warden. The number of times I see the extra half a second to open a 99 gate cost survivors instead of help them just hurts me...
It's 4 minutes if a survivor is hooked or downed... if you can't get them out in that time... you ain't getting them out.
As such I find it hard to call a 99 gate an advantage for survivors 😅
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@mca240 said:
And you really think that if you remove the current mechanic people aren’t going to find another way to throw?
Cure the underlying condition instead of proposing bandaid fixes.
Oh they will, but as I stated in the title, you make it harder to do. You make it so it's an effort to throw, you reduce the number of times they queue in the first place.
I'd rather keep the system as it is, but unless you introduce a comprehensive system to track people who do it with appropriate bans, it will continue to be exploited.
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@blithes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572224#Comment_3572224
incentivise doesn't mean reward, it just means that you want them to do something rather than another thing. in this case, you WANT them to dc instead of giving up on hook so the team gets the bot replacement.
Doesn't change the fact that removing the DC penalty will increase the number of players who do it. This is a complex problem without a simple solution.
Your are arguing bots are better than a player who won't play, so allowing DCs is preferable.
I'm arguing you have strong penalties to stop players who won't play even joining the queue. In lieu of that, make it so that leaving is as hard and annoying as possible for said leaver to stop them trying to play.
Both answers have flaws, and I don't think there is a perfect solution. It's more a case of what concessions you're willing to put up with, and in my case, encouraging more people to swap for bots is an unacceptable compromise.
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@blithes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572198#Comment_3572198
you would rather have a team member afk/throw the game than a bot who actually helps the team? to me that's crazy, and while bots don't fix the game, they are a hell of a lot more useful than a team mate that doesn't want to play the game. i don't think you have a real grasp on the fact that if someone doesn't want to play, they really will not, and you will have a worse experience in a 3v1 than if a bot is in the game.
i'm also not sure why a new player giving up on hook okay but an older player not? just because the game has a big learning curve doesn't mean they should be able to give up and 'ruin' everyone elses game experience? i have a few thousand hours on the game and i still get poor matchmaking? i've been put with people from 10 hours - 10,000 hours, how is that fair for me but not a new person? arguably the new players should be the ones to stay in the game longer so they can learn the mechanics of the game no? i've been put in lobbies with new players before, but by your logic they're allowed to give up on hook, so how is that not ruining the game for us? in my eyes, the only people who ruin the game are the ones who hide edge map or in lockers all game and don't do anything, which is where a bot becomes significantly more useful.
like i said before, to most people this is a CASUAL game. games go on average maybe 10 minutes, if not less. behaviour will literally never implement hard bans like you're suggesting, because like i said before, if they do, player count will drop substantially, queue times will go up, and behaviour would lose significant amounts of money.
if someone quitting one game for you is ruining your entire experience of the game then i think it becomes more of a you problem than anything else. 10 minutes is such a short amount of time, and then you can go to the next one, more often than not games are less than 10 min if someone gives up, it really is not that long of a wait.
if the ONLY way that you find fun in this game is escaping, i think you need to take a look at yourself and maybe try out some different ways of playing. people should not be getting banned from reports for giving up in one or two games, it is a casual game that people play for fun. if someone is not having fun, they have no obligation to keep playing said game.
Lot of assumptions there dude.
I realise I'm posting with hard tone in this thread to emphasise the point, so I'll talk more normally.
It's not about escaping or winning, the problem is bots are a band aid and nothing more. Once a player quits the game, its significantly harder for survivors to win. Can you still win? Ofc you can, but it's much harder. More often than not, the rest of the team gives up too, because now the battle is very much uphill, so this whole game becomes a wash.
Its not even fun for killer, when I'm playing killer, I have much less desire to play when a player DCs, cause the game just swung a huge amount in my favour. I don't even camp or tunnel, so I am someone who is playing more casual. More often than not I kill the bot, get my hooks and then let everyone go, cause the 'game' doesn't really matter anymore.
My point is, this game is designed for 5 players. You can't incentivise people to leave the game and reward for kicking their toys out of the pram, otherwise you'll just get more people who do it.
If you make is so someone can't leave easily, that empowers other player to so something about it. You can bet as killer if I see someone afking and ruining the game for everyone, I will happily slug and let that person bleed out as punishment.
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@blithes said:
"The obvious point is, we can't force people to play, but if it were made a big pain in the arse to suicide on hook, more people would just leave for the DC instead of self-unhooking to death"
you're right in the fact that you can't force people to play, but no, they wouldn't just leave for the dc. the 4% is not the problem here, the mistake bhvr made was increasing the dc penalties when adding bots into the game. they really missed the mark, what was the point in adding a feature to help the team when you don't want to play, but then not incentivising giving the team that extra help. i'm not saying pull the dc penalty completely, but the fact that they increased it was a bit questionable.
for most, this game is a casual game, not a comp game. if someone doesn't want to play, they won't. if they don't want the dc penalty, they'll attempt on hook. if thats removed, they'll afk. if they add afk penalties, they'll throw themselves at the killer. killer won't kill them? they'll bleed out on the floor or run around griefing/doing nothing. if they start penalising every way out of the game, people will stop playing their game. 90% of the time there is no way a person who has decided they want out will change their mind and decide to start trying.
bhvr need to incentivise dcing if anything, not removing every other way out of the game. personally i think they should just cap the dc penalty to 20/30 minutes, anything over that is kind of obscene. 20/30 minutes allows people to go and cool off and revaluate whether or not they want to keep playing the game, it gives them a break from rage queuing. along with that, considering their servers are so shoddy and kick people out the game for no reason at the moment, 20/30 minutes is not an insanely long wait time for people who have incorrect dc penalties.
Now you see, you can't incentivise DCing, that's not a solution. Bots don't fix this game. If you're not gonna play, don't queue. That's the problem.
This game is a game that requires 5 players. If you're not gonna commit to that, get out of the game, don't play it, stop ruining it for everyone else.
I personally advocate for tracking players who SOH via various mechanisms and hitting them with hard bans... I'm talking days. However, we do get this newbie problem as @JPLongstreet says.
So if that's not possible as the route to take, take the power out of players hands entirely. The community can't be trusted with the power, so take it off them.
The other option is, have the reporting system actually do something. Players regularly reported for bad behaviour need to get banned, with appropriate weightings put on individual reports vs. SwF reports, cause that'll be abused too.
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Alternatively track the frequency of players who regularly transition straight to phase 2 from first hook, and punish them specifically with this system instead of giving them a ban.
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Seems inspired by the headless horsemen from Sleepy Hollow to me... I not convinced it has anything to do with blighted skins at all 🤔
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Likewise.
A shame if it's not being brought in. Seems like a very positive change that gets rid of a lot of problems with lobby shopping and backfill, without really any good arguments to the contrary.
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Been great tbh.
I've been willing and able to use reassurance much more readily, as before if the killer wasn't camping, reassurance did nothing.
If the killer was camping, getting within 6m without taking a hit was a challenge in of itself, and if it was an instant down killer, youre playing with fire, and if I screwed it up I might even give the killer 2 people to camp.
Now even if the killer proxies and intercepts me going to hook, there is a pretty nice buffer allowing me to get my proc off to actually punish a camper.
As a killer who never used camping except during end game anyway, not been affected at all, so all in all, very happy with the AFC feature.
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Simple reason really.
Killers you can track individual performance on better with particular perks. If all killers are running the same perk regardless of differing play styles snd abilities, easy sign the perk is overtuned.
Survivors however are the same, so these perks get measured against all different killers, with varying degrees of effectiveness vs. said different killers. Combine that with the fact there are 4 survivors with 4 different loadouts, simply there are more variables to consider for survivor perks.
WoO for example is the most used survivor perk right now, some think OP, some don't, but its hard to prove, because that perk is gonna be less effective vs. Nurse and Xeno compared to Dredge and Ghost Face, and even then it won't be effective against every Dredge and Ghost Face or similar killer.
The phenomenon you're seeing to my mind is simply an expected pattern of an asym game.
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Personally figure there are things one could track that generally will indicate a suicide on hook player: -
- Points less than 3000
- Less than 3 mins in the game
- Time from first hook stage to sacrificed is less than a minute.
Of course all of these things can be explained by other means, but most standard forms of play will not see a player who is actually playing hit these often at all.
My method would be to track each of these events and keep a tally. If you get a certain unspecified number of them within so many games, give a 2 day ban. Hefty penalty for a hard to trigger condition.
Ofc I'm very much in the "don't join in the first place if you ain't gonna play" camp, so probably an overly harsh punishment. However I wouldn't lose any sleep at suicide on hook players getting a 2 day ban.
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Actually think Xeno is pretty fun for both sides.
For Survivors: -
- Intense sprints and fakes to bait out the tail for jukes, that gives a great high when you succeed.
- Takes forethought and strategic thinking to decide where to place turrets.
- Satisfying when you manage to bait the Xeno into a turret and knock it out out of crawler mode.
For Xeno: -
- Requires good knowledge of loops and survivor prediction to line up the tail due to immediately stopping when hitting any terrain.
- Tunnel is actually fun to race around in, and detection abilities keep you in the hunt and rarely totally lost.
- Turrets feel to you how they would for the Xeno, and surprising annoyance that slows you down, with a great high when you successfully flick and break it while still in power.
So I personally have to disagree with your assessment the Xeno is not fun for both sides. I'd say Xeno is pretty good, especially now it's bugs have been ironed out.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569958#Comment_3569958
I would be fine if people are doing this because they need stuns/blinds for challenges, but sadly this mechanic is purely used to be toxic.
These people are trying to mildly annoy you in a video game man.
Toxic gets thrown around way too easily. There's plenty of stuff that does border on toxicity in this game, but its all something you can manage in your own head.
This scenario is very mild on that scale, and tbh good strategy. By 99ing a gen with blast mine, the survivors successfully wasted your time by having you patrol a gen you couldn't stop, kick it and get stunned/blinded for a few seconds, repaired it anyway, and if they really got you slipped away undetected. That is optimal use of the perk to buy the most time possible for their team.
I'd say for all toxicity, short of cheating and using glitches to hold the game hostage, all of it is something you can develop thick skin over.
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Are we thinking the gate panel explodes and resets likes a gen? Scream if a survivor is on it?
Has some potential for nastiness with Remember Me... 🤔
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Seems to me the problem lies with weak minded survivors who give up too easily. No matter what killer you're up against, if some loser decides to kill themselves on hook or run to the killer just to die, you're probably gonna lose.
Skull Merchant is most definitely not OP, and definitely not unbeatable.
Blame the quitters, not the killer.
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Alchemist Ring does do a lot for a purple add-on. Bubba has something similar and yet that's a iridescent... and given Bubba's relies on survivors being nearby to even be useful, whereas Blight can cover monstrous distances with a full set of charges, AR seems pretty strong for a purple.
C33 does a lot, even for an iri. The slow splash is a pseudo tracking add-on, as if you get the BP reward when you hit survivors, allowing you to find someone you didn't expect. Hindered is rough in the hands of a skilled Blight, and your main defence (pallets) can be chewed through very efficiently, even with just the initial rush.
I'd make: -
- Alc Ring a recharge of 2 charges on a down, still good, but more situational.
- C33 loses the pallet break on rush.
Both add-ons will still be plenty strong, but remove the more dumb face slam Blight play style.
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Catching smart survivors is really rough on Pig. Your strength comes from your inherent slowdown, and the sooner you get it going the better... conversely the longer it takes to get it going the worse you're gonna do.
The big question for all my fellow Pigs is, are we happy to sacrifice some RBT pressure for better chase?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569199#Comment_3569199
I wish it still gave you reduce stagger as it once did, or at least it made you silent when you fell from a height (even when exhausted). I think other exhaustion perks are more reliable.
I don't know, but I would guess the reason it doesn't is it would give you the passive effects of BL while potentially still allowing the benefits for use with other exhaustion perks, e.g. Sprint Burst/Dead Hard/Lithe, which robs BL of its identity.
You could use the other exhaustion to reach the windows/drops, then still have the ability to reduce stagger as well, so you can have other perks able to encroach on BLs more situational territory.
2 perks slots for it is a heavy investment I suppose...
Might be nice if this was a passive, but halved and the stagger reduction is doubled while not exhausted, so the reduction still has value for BL, but really isn't worth it for other perks.
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My brain just imagined Shaggy and Scooby doing an Alice in Wonderland and Cheshire Dog bit during a chase with Freddy Kruegar.... So thanks for that.
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As an aside, DS should pull out a knife, sharp rock, piece of glass or something.
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Balancing Landing makes them God Tier!
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While I dont think a perk to stun the killer is tbe way I would go... this perk did make me think that survivors don't have much in tbe way of perks regarding ravens, they are info to Survivors just as much as killers...
I'd be tempted to say something like:
- When a raven is disturbed within 40m of you, you see its aura for 2s.
Combined with smart reads on the HUD, this could actually be a pretty solid info perk for finding wounded teammates, and ofc killers running tinkerer or trails of Torment.
The notifications are better for killers, cause your relying on sound more, but a brief aura as a raven flies away would be nice for survivors.
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I was thinking Thresh with his hook where he pulls himself to his target could be an interesting idea for a killer power.
You combine that and Nautilus' ability to hook onto terrain into one power and it could be pretty sick... like a more mobile Deathslinger.
I could also see interesting things with Nocturnes claw and ghost trails.
LoL or DotA have quite a few characters with powers that are ripe for ideas for Killer powers 🤔
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@burt0r said:
Sorry 🤣 that head line made me imagine survivor with a Naruto Sprint Animation.
Oh dear God... what have we set in motion!! xD
