UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Peanits said:
We have a bundle of tweaks planned for him in the not too distant future and will share more details when it's closer. We're also preparing an updated roadmap to give you a better idea of when you can expect them, so keep your eyes peeled for that.
The word "tweaks" fills me with a lot of hope that he won't lose what makes Myers Myers...
Thanks Peanits! 🤘😁🤘
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I will always peddle my suggestion for a Myers rework to anyone who will listen.
The one thing I'm afraid of is him getting something hokey, like a teleport, the ability to phase walls, or something that just isn't true to Myers. I also don't want him to lose his identity... he is the best realised killer thematically than any other killer... and that needs to stay even if he isn't the strongest in the game.
I'm quite proud of this rework for being even more faithful to the character, preserving the things evryone loves about Myers, removing his more unfair elements and giving him some much needed tools to make his time investment worth the payoff.
@UndeddJester said:
I love Myers, even though he's a weaker killer. He is one of, if not THE best realised thematic killers in DBD, and with his update coming up, and I really don't want to lose that about him. With discussion around him now actually having traction, I thought I'd bring up my rework for Myers (with updates) one last time, that aims to buff all the weak parts of his kit and keep the thematic legend in tact.
TLDR
I'll list my changes in rapid fire, but will explore them in more detail below.
Basekit Changes
- Evil Within Tier 1 opening time increase by 50% (0.2s →0.3s). (Boyfriend Memo basekit).
- Stalk pool for each survivor replenishes at a rate of 1 stalk per minute after 5 seconds of not being stalked.
- Stalk gains a bonus +10% stalk efficiency when stood completely still during stalk. (This translates to tiering up a single time taking 6s→5.45s at 2.5m and 60s→30s at 38.95m, see explanation below).
- Myers base movement speed is increased to 5.0m/s, and is reduced to his current EW tier when less than 32m from any survivor. (Mark with a debuff of his EW Icon when within 32m of a survivor).
- Stun resistance of 25% when in EW3.
- Can break pallets and breakable walls 35% faster by holding the interact button (or the secondary killer power button) for 15% cost of his meter when in EW3 (9s at base).
Add-On changes
- Blonde Hair - (Rework) Reduce the Evil cost for breaking pallets/walls by 2.5%.
- Tacky Earrings - (Buff) Increases movement speed while stalking by 15%.
- Boyfriend's Memo - (Rework) Each successful basic attack in Tier 1 or Tier 2 grants 10% (0.5) stalk progress.
- Hair Brush - (Rework) Increases duration of EW3 by 15s. Remove stalk time penalty. Increases the Evil cost to break a pallet/wall by 5%.
- Jewellery - (Rework) Each successful basic attack in Tier 1 and Tier 2 grants 15% (0.75) stalk progress.
- Hair Bow - (Rework) Reduce the Evil cost for breaking pallets/walls by 5%.
- Lock of Hair - (Rework) 30s extra time on EW3. Remove stalk time penalty. Increases the Evil cost to break a pallet/wall by 10%.
- Tombstone Piece - (Rework) Survivors now replenish stalk at a rate of 2.5 stalk per minute after 5 seconds of not being stalked. Stationary Stalking efficiency bonus increased by an additional 5%.
- Fragrant Tuft of Hair - (Update) Grants unlimited duration on EW3. Increases stalk required to reach EW3 by 200%. Breaking pallets/walls speed in Evil Within Tier 3 is reduced to 15% faster.
Notes
Stalk Speed vs. Stalk Efficiency
The difference between stalk speed and stalk efficiency is that Myers stalk rate drops off over distance linearly from 100% at 2.5m to 10% at 38.95m.
The base stalk speed is 0.8333 Stalk per second. To tier up a single tier is 6s at 2.5m, and 60s at 38.95m. His stalk add-ons (unchanged) change his base stalk speed:
- 0% (0.8333S/s, 6s →60s)
- 11% (0.925S/s, 5.45s → 54.55s)
- 25% (1.042S/s 4.8s → 48s)
- 40% (1.166S/s 4.29s →42.86s)
- 25+40% (1.375S/s 3.64s →36.37s)
The stationary stalk efficiency ability on the other hand changes the drop of over distance by 10%, from 110% at 2.5m to 20% at 38.95m. Using the same models as above, standing still to stalk will grant:
- 0% (0.8333S/s, 5.45s →30s)
- 11% (0.925S/s, 4.96s → 27.27s)
- 25% (1.042S/s 4.36s → 24s)
- 40% (1.166S/s 3.9s →21.43s)
- 25+40% (1.375S/s 3.31s →18.18s)
Hopefully it's clear that standing still to stalk unseen should be rewarded by making it easier to gain a stalk tier.
Movement Speed bonus
The movement speed boost to 5.0m/s when further than 32m from a survivor does 2 things for Myers.
- It helps his map traversal, especially when he's in Tier 1.
- It gives him a pseudo whispers, which mirrors Myers in the films seemingly having an innate sixth sense where his victims are at all times.
This mirrors the films with Myers' uncanny ability to catch up and appear from unexpected places, even though it doesn't seem feasible he should do so. I have seen people suggest making it so he can teleport to capture this feeling, but this is a cheat of his power imo, since canonically he can't do that. Instead this tries to give this feeling to him, but do it organically.
Pallet/Wall Break Cost
His accelerated Pallet/Wall break mirrors the uncanny strength that Myers exhibits in the films, and implementing it this way gives him a tactile usage if he doesn't want to burn the meter. His accelerated break always costs him 15% of his base Evil Within meter.
The duration add-ons add an additional penalty to the pallet break, to make the number of breaks he can do proportional to the duration he is gaining. Bear in mind the additional penalty is calculated off Myers base EW3 time (60s), not his new time.
- 60s base time - 15% penalty = 9 seconds (6.67 breaks)
- 75s Hair Bush - 20% penalty = 12 seconds (6.25 breaks)
- 90s Lock of Hair - 25% penalty = 15 seconds (6 breaks)
- 105s for Both - 30% penalty = 18 seconds (5.83 breaks)
This means the duration add-ons are ever so slightly worse efficiency than he would have at base, but the add-ons to reduce his EW break cost can be used to shore this weakness up exchange for add-on investment.
Conclusion
That's most of my thoughts. I hope the benefits of Tombstone Piece Rework is obvious, and of course I want to keep his Judith Myers Tombstone, since this is the only mechanic I know of that actually has important counterplay around using lockers (and is pretty well balanced).
I hope all of that is clear! I think this reworks lands on the spirit of Myers, and fits him well in the lore… we get: -
- Him standing still to stalk more efficiently, also from more distance... very on brand for Myers.
- A limited ability to sense what is around him, mirroring the sixth sense he has in the films to find him victims.
- Spoopy Myers is less useless.
- His tier 3 feels more potent and he himself is scarier when in that mode. The stun resistance and faster break speed achieves that unstoppable and relentless killer he should have always been.
Let me know what you think!
Note: I might also suggest a change in the stalk efficiency idea for Judith Myers Tombstone... something like 5% less stalk efficiency for JMT when stood still... but you understand the core concept I'm sure.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811736#Comment_3811736
I remember a certain characters cosmetics being removed due to these "bad actors".
I know the exact ones you mean... that cosmetic was such a cool idea thrown in the trash cause of mean spirited jerks trying (and succeeding) to get a rise out of people.
Thankfully the same didn't work for the Unknown... but they tried 😒
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I'm relatively new Pig Main myself (beena Pig main since I started in May 2023) , and it's interesting to read your take. Nothing you've said is incorrect, and I can understand why Pig might not be your flavour of character.
She is great character to learn DBD because she requires good fundamentals, and she also buys the time you need to put those fundamentals into practise via her RBT slowdown.
The main satisfaction point of the Pig is understanding you are trying to make the game a 3vs1, and use the pressure that exerts to force a survivor error to snowball the game. Good survivors will be less likely to make an error, and also give you less opportunity to do it in the first place (you are mostly just an m1 killer afterall)... which is why she not considered good, but she tests your understanding of game state better than any other killer.
What to do
In short, you shouldn't be chasing survivors off of jigsaw boxes most of the time, as that isn't maximising your slowdown/3vs1 strength. You definitely want to end your first chase quickly before gens start popping, so any perks that help you with that are great.
To play Pig at more advanced level, what you want to do is identify the headtrap pattern and squeeze at the right moment. Your 4 traps will have 12 searches total (an average of 3 per trap, which is maintained if you have more/less traps via add-ons). You want to watch the HuD and have an approximation of when a headtrap is removed.
The pattern you really want is 1 search trap removal on the first survivor. This means your remaining traps are gonna be some combination of 3-4-4, and every trap you put out from now on is a long one that survivors can't deviate for unhooks/saves while running. If you get a survivor on hook while another survivor is doing a 3/4 headtrap, they cannot afford to come help in any way shape or form, otherwise they risk dying to a head pop. This is where you can try and interrupt/zone this survivor off of boxes for maximum pressure should the opportunity present itself.
If you get a long search off of the first survivor, where they still haven't got their head trap off after significant time, you can now go and hunt for them, guessing where they will be based on where you hooked them originally. They should still be injured (if they are not, they are on even more of a time crunch) and close to popping, so you can really put pressure on them if you can find them.
Keeping a rough internal timer on headtraps and playing around the timers you know are in play is a big part of the Pig, and you can get pretty creative with builds and add-ons to create your own playstyle around it since Pig naturally has a slowdown built in, so you can look to more chase orientated perks to shore up her weakneases.
If she isn't for you that's fine, but I hope this helps if you give her another go ^🐽^
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Unfortunately it's a classic "because of bad actors we can't have nice things" situation.
Prestige in lobbies causes more negative consequences than positive ones, so has to stay removed.
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If you don't get at least one No Mither or Shattered Hope... are you playing Chaos Shuffle?
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@Xernoton said:
- Freddy has become the worst nerfed killer in this game's history.
- You can unhook without BT and not worry about farming your teammates.
- Haddonfield has become an incredibly killer sided map.
Freddy has become the worst nerfed killer in this game's history.
If we then hop on over to 2021 we will soon be able to also follow up with:
"Freddy is no longer the worst nerfed killer in this game's history." 😅
🪦💀Y
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They buffed Pig
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Blight has a cooldown on his power, he can't just go on an 8 man slugging spree and win the game single handed because he has to recover in between. The only times killers felt strong in 2vs8 was when survivors played like goobers, which is a problem in 1vs4 and now you have double the chances to get goobers… but I actually felt like if survivors didn't clown around, it was very tough for the killers to win.
I can see the logic behind why Billy was changed, because Billy has no cooldown to his power, he can just keep revving until he lands a hit. If you combine that with another killer cutting you off so you can't effectively loop Billy, then his power becomes oppressive, but in the same breathe thats 2 killers focusing down 1 player, it's not really much different in practise to just getting 1-2 punched by Wraith/Trapper. In fact you culd argue that the second killer actually helps, because you can eat an M1 to clip through the killer and use them as a meat shield to sprint away from Billy's chainsaw…
I think tbh the killers with high down potential like Hillbilly, Nurse, Blight, Spirit just need to be brought in as is, and then just have weaker team powers if they are too strong. Killers that are less lethal and can be hurt by survivors body blocking and ganging up on them, give them stronger team powers to compensate.
However since BHVR have gone the direction they've gone, I don't think Blight will be more problematic that anything else jsut cause his cooldown will be felt much more vs. more survivors. I am intrigued by the killer classes… I wonder if Billy is gonna have his normal play brought back if he is the "aggressive" class…
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811223#Comment_3811223
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811094#Comment_3811094
So then placing a trap on a Survivor after the final generator is completed is completely pointless? Is there any benefit for The Pig to do it?
One trick that can still do with head traps in end game with Pig, you can scooch a survivor out from under a pallet using her head traps... but yeah, beyond that point it's just for giving out party hats. 🥳
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I wonder if CoconutRTS is gonna make a bot Blight solo video after the success of the cracked Nurse bot.
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Little refreshing to hear less doom and gloom in fairness.
Makes a nice change to hear someone else is enjoying playing DBD... sometimes it's hard to not think I'm the only one xD
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I am fine with more skimpy outfits... as long as it is community agreed to ensure the skimpy outfit crew must die every game, and the cardigan crowd must escape.
This is a horror game. All sexy people must die, unless they are unintentionally sexy, or named Nancy.
I don't make the rules.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810216#Comment_3810216
Honestly, the probably deserved it somehow for a past sin. Keep doing what u do and spread the joy of Sadako throughout the fog.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810218#Comment_3810218
We all have our moments of weakness my friend. I know I have had mine in the past. Only, unfortunately, @Atsuka_Anarchy and @UndeddJester were there and now I can't forget cause they wont let me live it down… Undedd LOATHS SoH…😂😅
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810356#Comment_3810356
Hold your head high my child for you walk in the light of his grace. Bless you for your noble sacrifices for your teammates and your actions speak louder than words could. I want to take a moment to acknowledge the weight you may be carrying right now. It’s completely natural to feel guilty when things don’t go as planned, but I want you to know that failure is a part of life, not a definition of who you are.
I forgive you for what has happened. Mistakes and setbacks are stepping stones on the path to growth. They teach us invaluable lessons and help shape us into stronger individuals. Holding onto guilt can be heavy, but releasing it can open up new possibilities.
Please be gentle with yourself. Embrace this experience as a chance to learn and grow. I believe in your ability to rise above this and create a brighter future.
Walk through the fog absolved of guilt and know we share the sign of kin.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810395#Comment_3810395
I…I think this is forgiven? Father has been drinking from the communal wine tonight so sure, why not… xD
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810437#Comment_3810437
I appreciate your bravery my child in sharing your truths. When the darkest shadows cannot hide from the light. A light that bears the truths woven within our being and expels that darkness. I also thank you for providing us a 2v8 story…hopefully we will get more during this next event. 🤞.
I want you to know that it’s okay to feel lost sometimes. We all carry our burdens, and it takes incredible strength to acknowledge them. I’m here to remind you that forgiveness is not just for others; it’s also for yourself. You are not defined by your past or your struggles. Each day is a new chance to heal and grow. Take your time, and know that I’m here to support you on your journey. Remember, even in the darkest moments, there’s always a glimmer of light waiting to break through.
Walk through the fog absolved of your sins friend.
We all have our moments of weakness my friend. I know I have had mine in the past. Only, unfortunately,
and
were there and now I can't forget cause they wont let me live it down… Undedd LOATHS SoH…😂😅
It's fine, you're forgiven... I will only silently judge 😏
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Does anyone else get a little annoyed when they hit BL2 sometimes? Like this sort of "back up man, I don't need your help!" kinda thing?
There have been times when I'm playing Pig, have all the pressure I want and there is particular survivor I know I must catch now due to head trap pressure and alike. I've hit BL2 just cause of y'know... pallet stun into hold W can sometimes take a long time to catch back up... and I've corned the survivor at a tile and I'm happily playing the mind games, and BL2 procs and I'm like "God damn it, now I just walk them down...".
It's like I can't play the mind game anymore cause I'm moving at BL2 speed, the mind is won almost no matter what I do, but the tile is bad for an ambush... but its also a weak pallet I don't wanna break to allow them to run to another tile.
It's rare I do hit BL2, and there are times really can't help hitting it against uber survivors who just follow checkspots perfectly and don't ever fall for any mind games, where tbh I don't feel too bad about hitting BL2...
But more often than not when I hit BL2 I'm thinking in my mind "Aaawwww man... I don't want BL2! Get this crap off me!"
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NGL, the idea of a spiderbot sneaking up for a scan genuinely made me laugh (in a good way). :D
Skully's problems in a nutshell was her power was oppressive at loops to the point you were better off just leaving and holding W than trying to loop her. This made it so playing her was braindead, you just threw a drone at loop then cut off the survivor as they leave, or hold W after them until they get scanned to death. This combined with getting free haste to force the issue made her catching you not feel earned or a byproduct of skill (even if it actually was). Even though she wasn't oppressively strong, the way you beat her wasn't particularly fun or interesting for a lot of people.
I feel like the single scan line change works cause you avoid the problem with 2 scan lines where you can't increase the speed of the drone rotation because that means you have to crouch more often, and you can't slow the rotation cause that means you have to crouch for longer. I think this change alone makes her FAR easier to tweak to find a sweet spot where her power is good, but also adds mind games of its own. Using the scanner to change direction is actually something Skull Merchant needs to do (a cooldown for that though to make that a mind game in of itself would be useful).
I feel like I want to push her down the trap killer route. Her drones should work as traps in stealth mode, have them stationary, remove the ring and have them used to cut off paths and build up stacks to that injure. They provide some anti loop, but not as strong as before.
Spider drones could be the opposite of her floating drones, instead of then being stationary and not scanning stationary survivors, have them get sent by skull merchant in a direction to sneak up and detect survivors doing conspicuous actions to get stacks instead. 1 trap for zone control, one trap for detection…. and a spider bot beeping behind you would be hilarious :D
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@Alionis said:
The wiki didn't remove the old power, it moved it to its own page: deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Dream_Demon
I'm guessing it'll do that for other killer powers too down the line.
Ahhh fair,it doesn't help that the link for "Dream Demon" on Freddy's page takes you to the Power Page instead xD
Well sluethed that man 🫡
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810059#Comment_3810059
I'm sorry, friend, I got caught up in the discussion here and forgot to reply to your comment.
Please don't say these things about yourself, my friend, you were not annoying or anything like that. You saw an idea that was open to feedback, you voiced your thoughts and that feedback helped me! We had a good discussion about it, there is nothing wrong with that.
Don't be so harsh with yourself :)
Too kind 🤘😁🤘
I've kinda come around to OG Freddy. I have watched an old Otzdarva vid to see it in action, but couple of games isn't enough really to judge it by. For anyone else interested though:
https://youtu.be/0OgCvfzNyHc?si=IWeIxFN3Dq3IeM7BThe only things I would change would be preference changes in aid of selling Freddy and the dreamworld a little more. I would personally like:
- To actually use the wake up mechanic. No version of Freddy makes it worth doing it, and for OG Freddy missing a skillcheck just makes this mechanic redundant.
- In the same breathe make it a little less common to bounce in and out of the dream, and require more investement for both sides. Freddy passing by and yoinking into the dream is kinda pointless once survivors know you can just miss a skillcheck to get back out (especially via self care to think of Asian servers). The incapacitated does help, but being grabbed into the Dream should be an "oh crap" moment, not something where Freddy yoinks and forgets and the survivor goes "oh well" and poops a skillcheck to leave the dream. I'd prefer more of a notion of the survivor "falling asleep", and it being unclear when its gonna happen.
- In line with the previous change, make the TP a bigger part of his kit, and be an altermative medium for pulling people into the Dream if Freddyvguesses right... can you imagine getting yoinked into the Dream after seeing the blood spew and Freddy arrives to chase you while shouting "Come to Freddy!" or something? That would be awesome... extra points if he climbs out of the actual generator itself 😏😏😏😏
- Since I'd be aiming to bounce between the dream less, I'd tone down his monstrous action penalty a little... I feel like his slowdown should be more consistent (my main gripe vs. skillcheck rng), and I can see some potentially annoying 3 gen strategies.
I did have my old idea of blending modern microsleep in with Freddy's dream yoink, keeping current micro sleep progress hidden and using charges to try and hit the above points... (I won't dredge it up again since were still talking concept), but these are the only things I would consider addressing on OG Freddy's design.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809949#Comment_3809949
""Once in the Dream World: Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 50%"
"While Survivors are in the Dream World: Applies a moderate (-6%) Action Speed penalty to Repair, Healing, and Sabotage actions"
"Survivors suffer from an increased Action Speed penalty of 60% after 30 seconds in the Dream World"
This sounds absolutely miserable.
I used to think so, but you just miss a skillcheck and away the penalty goes as you come out of the dream… this was what made old Freddy pretty darned bad
You also need to remember that if you're not in the dream, Freddy can't injure you until he spends 7 seconds pulling you back into the Dream.
That said I do have concern about Hex builds in this regard. Considering Freddy can incapacitate a survivor by pulling them into the dream, and totems take 50% longer in the dream... I imagine a Hex Build with TotH, Undying, Devour Hope and Pentimento would be rather evil....
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809944#Comment_3809944
Probably not, I used it to get other players' feedback and see what they think about it. A suggestion for Freddy cannot be done simply with what I want for him in mind, I wanted to come up with a concept everybody would enjoy.
And thank you for your kind words, my friend, I sincerely appreciate it <3
If you'd like to see a post with my ideas, here it is:
Just disregard the suggestion for Black Box, I still need to come up with a different effect for that add-on (also thanks @UndeddJester for pointing out the oversight with the suggestion, I appreciate it!)
All good mate!
Jesus was that me 10 months ago? How did you have the patience to listen to my crap? Lots of talking out of my rear there, but at least one thing was useful xD
I wasn't around during the years Freddy was around so I don't truly know how he played/was played against... but now I look back at it the RNG of skillchecks is not really a big deal. I would prefer something different but for lack of a better idea, it's not really a problem.
However looking at the wiki, his old power seems to have been removed...
So for anyone wanting to know Freddy's original I thankfully copied it down, though I have a feeling it had some mistakes/is missing some details, so do please correct me:
Original Power
"Death won't accept him and thus he remains, a calamity, indisputable master of his victims' nightmares.
Dream Demon allows The Nightmare to pull Survivors into the Dream World."
Survivors who are awake:
- Do not see or hear The Nightmare.
- Once targeted by The Nightmare's Power, Survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
- During the Dream Transition they can see The Nightmare intermittently.
- When the Dream Transition has elapsed, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
- Survivors' Auras are revealed to The Nightmare whenever they are outside of his Terror Radius.
- Survivors suffer an Action speed penalty of -50 %.
- Must find other non-sleeping Survivors to perform a Wake-up action to exit the Dream World
- Failed Skill Checks can wake up the Survivor.
- Getting hooked wakes up the Survivor.
Original Power Trivia
- Terror Radius: 16 metres
- Lullaby: 24 meters
- Dream Transition duration: 7 seconds
- Power range: 10 metres
- Power cast movement speed penalty: <95% (3.95m/s)
- Dream World Action Speed penalty: -50%.
- Aura-Reveal delay: 1 second after leaving the Terror Radius
- Glimpse Minimum distance: 6 metres
- Glimpse Maximum distance: 24 metres
Update 1.8.1
- Nerf: increased the time Survivors must have left the Terror Radius for to have their Auras revealed from 1 second to 10 seconds.
- Nerf: increased the Terror Radius from 16 metres to 24 metres. This change was motivated by a desire to allow Survivors more room to manoeuvre around The Nightmare without having their Auras revealed for being outside his Terror Radius. This change brought the Terror Radius to the same range as his Lullaby.
- Nerf: increased the duration of the Movement Speed penalty after tagging a Survivor with Dream Demon from 1 second to 3 seconds. This change was motivated by a desire to allow Survivors to put more distance between themselves and The Nightmare before they fall asleep and become vulnerable to his attacks.
- Nerf: dying Survivors who are healed to the Injured State are automatically woken up.
Patch 1.8.2
- Quality of Life: increased the Movement Speed while casting Dream Demon from an unknown value to 95% (3.95m/s). This change was motivated by the Developers deeming the old penalty as too intense.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809111#Comment_3809111
I've had this discussion with someone else before, and similarly you're only looking at the killer side of things here.
For example, you're really just saying that a 2k is a loss here, using a lot more words. You aren't arguing about wins, because clearly it doesn't matter if the gens get done (or gates are powered) if the killer still gets a win with a 3k or 4k. Which is a possibility for the killer, especially with things like blood Warden or noed. (You can't win as the survivor team without completing all of the gens though)
So we're switching to a 'killer didn't win scenario'. Which is exactly what I was saying before: the 50% win rate does not mean survivors are winning the other 50%. That's effectively what you're saying here though.
I'll just limit it to the 2k/draw scenario. In your argument the doors are powered, so the killer somehow loses. The survivors didn't escape as a team, so they lose as a team (which is why the devs use kills and not win/loss btw).
But in a draw, it's a close game for both sides. Survivors might've won if they got lucky or played a bit differently. Alternately, the killer could've gotten a 3k and won if they got lucky or played a bit differently. You can't just say "well it was a stomp because the gens are done". The gens aren't the killer's objective.
And I'm ignoring your underlying implication that the game is 1v1v1v1v1 here too. We're taking about teams on both sides, only that the killer team has one player (usually). Trying to imply that "the survivor who got hatch won" isn't the point of this post, and completely misses the mark.
You are right, we are effectively arguing if a 2k is a tie or not, and I don't consider it a tie from either the killer or the survivor perspective…
To be honest, I don't think there is a way we can come to an agreement on this, what we're effectively arguing here is what we typically want the game experience to be, so we are debating opinions. So to give how I look at it...
You are looking at it with a more competitive mindset, as though the survivors are a true team, and a 2k is a draw for survivors... to my mind it is not. 2 survivors lost and 2 survivors won (and that idea extends to the killer), and yes there is some semantics there, but I don't really view me dying for 2 others to live as "we the survivor team tied", I view it as "I sacrificed myself, but at least my 2 teammates got out alive". To my mind I lost so my teammates could win. That is how the game presents itself to me, and I how I would view a horror scenario... would I be willing to get sliced up in a basement and turned into chilli to save the lives of 2 children? Yeah I like to think I would... but I don't tie in that scenario, I sacrifice myself for sake of others, and to me that distinction is important.
How does this relate to balance in DBD? Well to my mind this notion of sacrificing yourself for others is important for the theme of the game. Are you willing to leave your teammate to die for yourself to escape? That decision must have risk to have meaning and this notion of "2k is a tie" greatly diminishes that part of the theme. Why would I risk my life if my teammate dying is a tie for them and me? Answer it isn't... they lose. If escaping is something skewed slightly more to the killer side, the decision to save a teammate is therefore more meaningful.
In a 3 man scenario, the killer has found me, I know its very unlikely I'm gonna make it out alive... but if I last long enough I can maybe at least sacrifice myself to get the gate open so my teamates can leave, that's a 2k. If they come back for me, that is their decision, and one most players make because we're human, but this is what I mean by the scramble at end game. If a 2k was a true tie, the much smarter play is don't come back for me and risk a 3k or 4k, and in comp DBD that's what they do, they don't risk it, they take the 2k because for them they are a true team and it is a tie due to the rules of the tournament.
Survivors in non comp games however do come back for saves, because we are not a true team… if I die I die... I didn't tie, I lost. The decision to come back may result in a greater number of players escaping, but it may also result in more players dying. There are a lot of factors that go into that, but I would say the most common outcomes are usually equal or worse trades... and this is fine, this is the theme playing out beautifully in the game...
Basically the point I'm making is the survivor game is enhanced by the game being balanced so that the gate doesn't open 50% of the time. It adds weight and meaning to survivors trying to save each other as much as possible. If 60% of the time 2 players or more make it out, sacrificing yourself and being altruistic doesn't hold anywhere near the same weight, because the end game scramble is more common and the decision to come back for a save or not becomes the status quo.
This is why I prefer the game where it is centered around the gate opening or not. The killer fails their objective if they let a survivor out through gate, survivors succeed their objective is they escape through gate. A 3k is an acceptable win con for killer due to hatch mechanics and alike, but a 2k means you failed to hold your objective, and I think that perspective is what serves the theme of the game the best.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
While I agree the 4% is 'nothing', I wonder why there was a HUGE cry about the 3% from old MFT.
Math only works in this game if it benefits your narrative. This is a staple on the forums lol
I take the opposite stance, haste and hindered are the most important effects in the game for either side.
DBD is often a game of inches, where every missed hit/outplay at a tile can cost upwards of an extra 10s of chase for either side, especially for regular m1 gameplay. The detail people who argue in favour of MFT forgets is that survivors don't run in a straight line, they can turn around obstacles faster than killers due to their smaller hitbox, and any change to speed massively amplifies this effect. Haste means more corners to edge out distance on the killer, hinder means fewer corners to edge out distance on the killer. This mechanic is what made DBD what it is, and is a gameplay aspect you really shouldn't mess with.
Whatever crap we give the maps, they are at their core designed for survivors to be 4.0 and killers to be 4.6. If you mess with these numbers, you up-end everything that has ever been done to balance maps over the years, (good or bad, but would assume/hope there is more good than bad). The duration of a hinder/haste effect is a massive balance factor, and an unlimited haste/hinder is very dangerous for this reason.
4% is not nothing, its effectively a 26.67% loss relatively for the survivor, which is 25% less corners they can reach. I'm not of the opinion this nerf is a problem for Wesker since the effect is permanent until cleansed, and any good Wesker should be able to capitalise on that. However since it's such a limited effect (most people cleanse it and the game is over before it even becomes a factor), undoing this nerf wouldn't have much effect either.
3% whenever injured is not nothing and is effectively 20% more corners the survivor can reach. There are killers who struggle far more than others against this change. If you're moving at +200% speed, then yeah, you ain't gonna care if a survivor is 3% faster... but any killer that moves slower than 4.6 or has slower movement/tine investment associated with their power become casualties of the 3%. Doctor became powerless on certain loops because he literally moved slower than the survivor, Huntress got embarrassed by a medium sized rock, Pig, Trapper and Sadako just get worse at every tile and people just didn't bother healing vs. Ghost Face, Legion or Myers so they basically don't have a power. The killers who are the casualties of this perk are the wrong ones, it makes the top tiers better and the lower tiers worse, which is true of a lot of perks, but MFT highlights it better than any other perk.
Skull Merchant got nuked out if existence because she more or less had a permanent 3% haste effect. It's a big deal, and shouldn't be treated as trivial. Speed effects should be applied VERY carefully in DBD.
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Who on earth was relying on his infection to make Wesker effective? Wesker is strong cause of the utility his dashes brings, both at catching survivors at loops and moving around the map. That hasn't changed.
His infection was a minor slowdown mechanic that made his power more dangerous if ignored, but was never something you should be relying on to succeed. It's not like Pig or Sadako where you've basically got nothing else so you have to play around your slowdown. If you want to tunnel a survivor out, Wesker would normally succeed long before infection came into the equation... its only if you're bad that you're consistently waiting for a survivor to be hindered to score a down.
I will admit I don't think the nerf to his hindered effect was necessary, the nerf to his infection reset off hook achieved what needed to be achieved, and it makes more sense to have it where something that is rarer is stronger... so his hindered could have been untouched and Wesker would be fine...
However a permanent 4% slowdown and being instant downable to his m2 (his best tool) is not exactly small potatoes, and as I say, you shouldn't be relying on it anyway.
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The fact some people boldly defend DC/SoH is really upsetting.
I can't but think in a real horror scenario they're the type of character who shuts the blast doors early out of fear/panic while everyone else is still trapped on the other side.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
The only problem here is that this isn't a complete picture. For example, even a 50% killer win rate does not in any way mean that survivors are winning the other 50%.
Survivors are getting a win (0-1k) about 35% of the time. So this isn't capturing draws, nor is it indicating that killers are still winning considerably more than survivors on average.
People are reading 50% win rate and assuming that it's 50/50, and it's not.
On the top end, the higher kill rate killers are winning twice as often as the survivors they face, and that's actually a problem for a PVP game.
Thing is though people have been trying to get across that kills != skill for ages and this statistic does support that argument. If you consider how games play out around around gate, kill rate doesnt tell the real picture, the killer MUST HAVE failed to defend gate for 2 or more to escape...
To try and explain, assuming the 60% killrate gives a 50% win rate for killer, that means 50% of the time 2, 3 or 4 survivors are winning (or in other words, the gate must have been opened and those survivors escaped). The other 50% of the time 0 or 1 survivors are winning... and more often than not the 1 survivor escape is from getting hatch or the hatch close into gate (the gate is almost never successfully opened in a 1 man escape via gen repairs).
If you look at the gates being powered and opened as the primary win con for both sides, then this 60% kill rate does make a lot more sense... I'm sure you would agree the bulk of a killers win rate doesn't (and shouldn't) come from the end game scramble... what usually decides how many survivors live and die is whether (and when) the gate gets opened or not.
It's pretty definitive that if the killer manages to prevent the gate from being opened, that is undeniably a killer win. If the gate is opened the killer might have still been able to get the 4k... but more often than not it's a scramble at the end and the game can swing wildly between a 0k and a 4k depending on perks and mistakes on either side... is it fair to say for the killer to win, the killer has to rely more on scrambles in end game? If a Bubba turns a 2 hook 0k into a 3k cause of a survivor blunder vs. NOED, do we say Bubba won that game? Or do we say he got lucky/is crap?
Whether gate opens or not makes sense as the definitive divide between wins/losses. End game is a crazy crap shoot, and if we make the killrate lower at 50%, thus making the win rate 40%, the killer is in an end game scramble more often, and the survivors are completing their primary objective 60% of the time.
Looking at these numbers, it looks to me like the kill rate should be maybe 55% or so... but does that argument at least make sense?
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I think tbh a lot of players reap what they sow.
I love playing survivor, it is naturally suited to my normal coop video game preferences, and I can happily queue up for survivor any day of the week. I like to challenge myself, I don't run meta perks; I ban myself from exhaustion perks, Commodius Toolboxes and Iri add-ons, and try to avoid OTR and DS unless necessary... but I still play to win and I have plenty of fun and wins would you believe, and usually with the idea of trying to make a particular silly erk work. I do my tome challenges and try to make builds around those, and I have plenty of enjoyment in this game.
I genuinely feel like the DBD community doesn't actually want to have fun, they actually just want to dunk hard on the other side.
The number of Boil Over Sabos, DS Unbreakables, Commodius BNPs I see trying to mess with the killer is insane, and the hardcore gen slowdown into tunnel hard for killers is just so bland. Both sides are being lame sweats themselves, then get upset when their games are sweaty and unfun... and its all in the name of pushing an invisible number you can't even see or brag about... a negative feedback loop where the prize is to get thrown in with all the other boring sweats playing the same 3 builds.
To me that's just insane... I don't want to have to sweat every game just to function, which is where I genuinely believe most players who complain are. They play uber sweaty and now they can't not play that way cause their MMR is up with all the other sweats... there is no way to have fun anymore. The only thing they can do is play super optimal and lame or they themselves get optimised and lamed out... no wonder noone has any fun.
If you want to have fun, stop trying to dunk on the other side. Take all your busted stuff off and try to make an actual game of the Game.
Will you lose? Sure you will, but no more often than you do now when your MMR settles, and you won't be tilted and stressed out of your mind anymore.
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Starts getting real interesting at that middle of the pack… Actually helps make a lot of sense of the 60% killrate, since it results in approximately a 50% win rate.
Ghost Face only winning 42% of the time on a 50% kill rate 💀
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I just had the most heart-stopping game against Pig. Wow. It took my breath away.
So… I’m guessing that it’s part of her sick game when I have to decide between saving my last team mate or continue searching boxes. I’m also guessing that booping the snoot is out of the question especially after a locker stun to a pallet drop t bag. As I’m sacrificed growls and growls and growls… 😂😨😂👏👏👏11/10
PS: Last month I didn’t know you couldn’t escape with the reverse bear traps… I thought she was being nice.. I thought I was crawling to freedom.. and then I realized- It’s just more sick games 😂 That one actually took my breath away irl lol
There is absolutely nothing stopping you for going for the save... go on... you know its the right thing to do... your trap will be fiiiiiiine... how long is a 12s search really? 😏😏😏
I'm also guessing that booping the snoot is out of the question especially after a locker stun to a pallet drop t bag. As I’m sacrificed growls and growls and growls… 😂😨😂👏👏👏11/10
You'd be suprised how much can be forgiven with a well timed boop... except Boil Over... that's a paddlin' 💥🐽💥🔪
PS: Last month I didn’t know you couldn’t escape with the reverse bear traps… I thought she was being nice.. I thought I was crawling to freedom.. and then I realized- It’s just more sick games 😂 That one actually took my breath away irl lol
Ahahahaha a gate kill!? How special... 😋
I got one of those in my very first game ever as Pig… and it has never happened again since xD
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@Linkdouken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808517#Comment_3808517
Jason being able to use pallets against survivors sounds hilarious.
A stance switch power sounds fitting for him - how about a stealth mode where he builds a haste speed when stalking which is then applied when he switches to an aggressive mode where said pallet power etc comes into play?
Ahahaha, I like the sounds of it xD
I'm kinda imagining an ability kinda like the Pig, where you charge it up and then get a strong speed boost for a short duration that then leads into a grab. I can see PWYF actually being kinda awesome on him...
Might be really interesting if it's an ability where the longer you charge it the further you go, a bit like Nurse, but also if you tie that longer charge to letting you carry survivors further for your... what do we call them... environment powers? It gives greater rewards for successful longer charges.
In my head it's like Jason is still a towering monster, so I can imagine him stopping and charging at a weak tile, or using it at shack and the survivor has to decide if he's bluffing and charging his grab attack, or if he's not and just gonna come at you for an m1? Do you prethrow the pallet to be safe to ensure if he does grab you he only gets a pallet break, instead of instant downs you with a pallet slam.... maybe he gets a power where like.Bkigjtnro Billy, of you ore throw while he is charging his grab, he just smashes the pallet and sticks to you.
I like the idea of reaching a window and him simply throwing you through for a wound, with a stagger a bit like Wesker throwing you into a distant wall... can you imagine Jason stepping through ten window after you? Would look bad ass xD
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808689#Comment_3808689
@UndeddJester Had an idea that closely alligned with my own in the topic. Here is a thread discussing the issue.
Intriguing debate that one. 🤘😁🤘
In the time since I have been wondering if this set of changes could answer the 4k slug problem:
- Survivors get the basekit ability to open chests while in the dying state.
- Survivors get the basekit ability to exchange items in chests/on the ground while in the dying state.
- Survivors get the basekit ability "Desperation". When recovered to 95% or more the survivor can press the sprint button to enter Desperation. Any time they are in the dying state they will always be in Desperation mode until they become healthy again.
- Desperation - The survivor bleeds out 50% faster (240s →180s) and make 50% louder grunts of pain. If greater than 95% recovery the survivor crawls 50% faster (0.7m/s→1.15m/s)(crouch speed 1.13m/s)
- Keys have a standard built in aura read when used to see hatch within 32m.
- Keys aura ability can still be used while in the dying state.
- Keys can open hatch from the dying state (2.5s time at base)
- Broken Key is changed to "Crooked Key" and takes 300% longer to open hatch (10s).
- Hatch now spawns closed in the event only 2 survivors are alive and is blocked by the Entity's tendrils, the aura of which is visible to the killer in white.
- It takes 10 uninterupted seconds to prise the Entity's tendrils from the hatch. Attempting to remove the tendrils will cause the aura to turn yellow for the killer.
- The killer can interact with uncovered hatch to reset the Entity tendrils.
- In the event only one survivor is alive the tendrils open immediately.
- Non dying Survivors can interact with the hatch by hand and open it within 20s or via a key in 2.5s.
- Dying survivors can interact with the hatch and open it with a key in 2.5s.
- Only 1 survivor can ever escape via hatch, and doing so immediately starts end game collapse without powering the gates!
Would make bringing a key a little more sensible, and if you combine Desperation with Tenacity, you're actually not too slow, which raises the value of that perk... but more importantly you're not stuck doing nothing on the floor, you can still actually TRY and escape.
Incidentally, a forum trick I learned recently, if you want to make a direct quote from another thread, the datetime of the comment has the direct link to the comment.
You can right click (press and hold) the datetime and copypasta the link in the forum to point right at it 😏
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808565#Comment_3808565
Part 8 had some pretty suspect moments. I know there was a full game theory that proved every instance of supposed teleportation was within human range of movement, or could potentially be chalked up to hallucinations, but the way the movie intentionally frames a lot of its scenes really feels like they intended the character to have the ability.
He was also turned back into his kid self by sewage in that one, so there was definitely something funky going on there. Which tbf, it isn't like perception of Jason's abilities has ever been concrete. The director of 9 even made that film with the idea Jason was a deadite resurrected by Pamela after he drowned.
Yeah, solid take that man... as much as I like the franchise, it kinda went a bit cult/paranormal voodoo at that point... nothing really makes sense and things just kinda deus ex machina themselves in to keep the films going... it's been years since I've seen 8 and 9, but looking it up it was 9 where I remember just straight laughing out loud. Jason gets destroyed at the start, and after spending this whole film body hopping, trying to reunite his heart with his sisters dead body... he is reborn back in his old body (clothes, mask, even the injuries he had and all), and literally just pops out of the ground like a jack in the box. I bloody died laughing at how stupid it looked xD
I had fun... but christ I have to totally turn off my analytical brain during those films otherwise I start unavoidably picking them apart... Undying zombie of vengeance that keeps coming for people who disrupt his haunting grounds is such a simple concept that doesn't need any more around it... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Suffice to say, I don't really consider that point of the franchise a high spot... even if we enjoy the films and their jank, I believe very few would pick them as their favourite era for Ft13th and Jason...
Where do you fall as your favourite era, if you were to pick a Jason to be the "default"? Toss up for me is either between FvJ/Start of Jason X Jason vs. Part 4 Jason... mostly I like later Jason cause he looked cooler, but with the goofiness toned back down by those points... but I wouldn't be upset at old green dinner shirt Jason 😅
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
His powers would be closely based on what he currently has in the F13 game I would assume.
The only power that really bugged me from F13 is his shift ability… I understand why it was needed form a gameplay point of view, but the ability to teleport was never presented as an ability Jason actually has in any of the films. Like Myers its more presented as a uncanny ability to predict victim movements and sneak around perfectly.
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Huge Jason fan, and I did post a suggestion back in my more formative time of the dbd forums, that I'm embaressed to share now... However he's a weird one, cause Jason has changed wildly over his lifetime, and it kinda depends where you personally fall on your favourite iteration of Jason.
Nerd guff:
I personally think Ft13th2 was a great intro for him, and in Ft13th parts 3 and 4 is when Jason really hit his stride. Ft13th5 is not even Jason so that sucks and is a blight on the series, but part 6 manages to take that and make chicken soup out of chicken ######### somehow...
Then everything got progressively weirder in 7, 8, 9... like they are fine popcorn films, but the lore around Jason just becomes so silly, just turn your brain off and go with it.
Jason X I actually like at the start, as daft as the plot is... I think it's Jason at his best in this film... but RoboJason is... well, its just not Jason, its the Terminator... totally different feel...
I think Freddy vs. Jason is probably my favourite iteration of Jason... he looks amazing, his behaviour/presence/aura are Jason to a tee (seriously he is a perfect unstoppable tank), he gets some frigging brilliant kills that are hell fun to watch, but also make sense... and the plot is actually surprisingly intelligent and treats him well with a lot of respect for the haracter... honestly if a handful dumb/goofy moments were removed/reworked in that film, I'd genuinely say its near perfect... and I'd love to see Jason from that film.
With all that in mind, the main beats around him for his power far as I'm comcerned are: -
- Jason is comparable to Myers, stealthy, but he doesn't stalk, he's more of a predator, always waiting for the right opportunity to strike. I'd be tempted to make his a stance switcher, a bit like Pig between stealth and aggressive mode.
- Jason is a very creative killer, he doesn't really have a set MO, and uses anything and everything he can find around him as a weapon. I'd like to see some interaction with objects around him. I think catching survivors near lockers/generators/totems/chests/even pallets should have additional interactions somehow. (Though it would be broken, slamming a pallet on a survivor is such a Jason thing in my head xD)
- He is strong, relentless and ruthless, and needs some kind of means of relaying that. Relating back to the previous point I envisioned his power being like a speed boost into a grab type mechanic for him... a bit like catching a survivor with Mori Myers, but it instead allows him to pick survivor up and use nearby objects on them for an instant down+additional effect. Breaking an unused pallet on survivors, breaking a generator by slamming the survivor into it, destroying a locker by smashing a survivor through the doors, throwing them headfirst into a window vault, etc, etc... If none are nearby for him to reach in time (or Jason chooses) the survivor is instead thrusts to the floor and the survivor loses a regular health state as normal (maybe even allowing you to throw them a short distance at another survivor)... something like that...
But regardless, yeah, Jason is a hard character to think of a power for, cause he is a surpringly versatile killer that is hard to pin down to one idea... xD
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808392#Comment_3808392
It makes me sad that I'll never experience original Billy on the old maps. What I wouldn't give for that... Or even just playing new Billy on the old Coldwinds and Haddonfield again.
BHVR, we need a nostalgia mode. Pretty please with extra sugar and sprinkles on top.
I'm still saddened we never managed to get any traction for a classic Billy add-on that disables overcharge in exchange for blood points... 😢
They gave console Billy such a QoL change in his update where you can actually do some basic curves (not like PC ofc)... he became much more viable, but Overdrive is just a crap shoot on console... you just rev and pray xD
As fun as blasting across the map like you're on a hell fueled motorcycle is, I'd love to have a go playing OG Hillbilly without having to worry about flying off to Narnia periodically... 🤘
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@SoGo said:
I'd say probably Wesker is the gold standard of balance: fun to play, decently powerful but not OP, you have to be skilled to play as and against him, so on and so forth.
However, if I could add a killer that is the most unique, I'd say Plague.
He also is relatively easy to use but hard to master... so at low levels Wesker's are just as fun to play as/against as much as high levels...
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@radiantHero23 said:
If they bee line to tiles I can't play around. (pig)
In only chasing for one jungle gym / shack. I know this sucks, but I don't have a partner that helps me to slow down gens. Have to do that by myself.
Amanda for 2vs8 pl0x!
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I have probably the most hours on Legion, but I don't think they really need much. They're fine where they are, especially after their last buffs.
@Tatariu suggested letting Legion see blood in Frenzy, something like that could be a decent option for a buff without changing them significantly
Tatariu"s changes were always very restrained and reasonable, and mostly minor tweaks and QoL changes to make Legion mostly feel better to play without pushing his strength anywhere silly.
It's refreshing to listen to him (and yourself), because it's clear he just wants to have fun playing Legion, not make him a wrecking machine, and I think anyone would be hard pushed to argue against his suggestions.
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I have been thinking about this issue, and what do we think of the idea of making map offerings not guarantees?
Something like a map offering gives a maximum 66.67% chance of going to that realm. Regardless of offerings between each side we always have a 33.33% chance of being rejected and instead go to a random realm.
If any players map offering is selected or a sac ward is used, all map offerings are consumed. If the Entity rejects map offerings, it is returned to you. This would mean you can go for map achievements without being hindered significantly, but if you're planning something ugly, it is less likely to successfully come off.
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@Grigerbest said:
I mean… What exactly do you want?
I think Iri shards is already a "Thank you for playing the game".
Other than that the game only have bp as a currency… So you want bloodpoints? You are getting it for matches…
Auric cells? - A big no-no, the developers can't give away any, since it's the only source of income.
Top of my head, a dynamic banner/charm showing your devotion rank might be nice!
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808165#Comment_3808165
You are right with that.
But not long ago both still worked in game.
It seems that they walk more and more away from stealth. Also a lot of techs and tricks get removed to simplify the game overall. I think this is sad.
Players who can´t loop are getting stomped. And these are often new players → bad game experience → not playing longer → no new players.
It was obvious that something like that would happen. We get 4 chapters with at least 6 perks - or more. Now often altered perks of another existing perk.
In reality we have enough perks and the power creep is more detrimental.
Well, how well it worked is debatable, DBD has had some wildly broken things in it throughout its history, and you could say its simpler, but it's being compared to the wild west, where both sides were in a constant arms race of which side could come up with the more broken combos...
Usually that was survivor side, which is why nerfs have tended to be heavier to survivor perks/items than killer perks. Fundamentally the survivor has to be weaker than the killer in the 1vs1 for the game to function, and this was not the case in number of cases for old DBD.
I will admit though there are a lot of aura perks for killer. I'm not too thrilled about the Predator and Zanshin changes making them ywt ANOTHER set of aura perks. It's all getting a little bit samey... but overall I feel the game is for the most part reasonably fair with nothing outright broken on either side.
Some people prefer the old school mad cap busted nonsense you could pull back in the day, but a lot old DBD would sink like a lead balloon with it's larger modern player base (MFT being a shining example).
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Move over Sable, you're being replaced.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808154#Comment_3808154
Yeah but the killer still has powers, is faster and stronger.
This is how it was originally designed. And this was a very good design choice.
Aura reading was very very limited in the beginning - rightfully so.
The killer is faster in a straight line, but not so much on loops, and in regards to stronger, the killer is outnumbered 4 to 1.
Unfortunately what you are describing is how the game was originally designed vs. what it became.... and what it became was an accidental byproduct of the fact killer have a larger hitbox and thus can't get around terrain as quickly.
Looping and the mind games associated with it have become the primary mechanic the game is built around, and is a mechanic sorely lacking in many other games that have attempted to copy DBDs success. It evolved away from hiding and stelath, and looping became the entire point of the game.
Aura perks aid with that, and while I do appreciate stealth since that is the more authentic horror experience, DBD wouldn't have found anywhere near the success it has if looping wasn't the primary focus of the game.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807690#Comment_3807690
Would probably be a good idea.
If you really think about it - do you think it would be bad for the game if there was NO aura reading at all? I don´t.
Sure, but take away the killer terror radius completely so that survivors don't get an early warning to hide before the killer can even get line of sight. Survivors already enjoy a third person view vs. Killers limited first person view, so they have no need for an early warning system. That seems to be fair.
@TheLonelyHarlequin said:
I was reading the dev update and I have some issues with the update plan for distortion.
To have it deactive after 1 use and then only reactivate after getting chased with the current system of kills running 4 aura reading perks and 2 aura reading add ons distortion is basically useless now.
You will never get a chance to use distortion now. Game starts with lethal, perk deactivates. Killer hooks with bbq and chilli, you get chased. Perk reactivate. Perk deactivates by another bbq and chilli hook or no where to hide or the new zanshin tactics gets you or the killer is running Franklin's and weave and the whole map has portable uavs as if we are playing cod or the killer is running one of the many other aura reading perks.
The issue with the game is not that distortion is too powerful. It's that it's way too nesacary to survive longer than 5 seconds when the killer has basically permanent wall hacks.
This game has gone from a hide and seek system to how long can you run before you eventually die. There is no surviving anymore. The main part of the game of trying to find survivors has been removed entirely due to aura reading.
If the devs plan on adding more aura reading perks I believe they need to leave distortion as it or if they really want to rework it, add more perks to counter aura reading as it is way too easy now for killers to read auras.
The way the game is going more and more survivors are gonna run gen rush perks and items as this is now the only way to get anything done when the killer can watch what you are doing from start to end through the walls
Regarding the Distortion update, as others have said, it does feel like 2 stacks is a fair and reasonable buff to the perk in its current state.
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@aliciakeys said:
Guys, I realize $5-$10 isn't much to you. But you should also realize that not everyone lives in England, the USA or even in Europe.
I am not saying that prices should be completely and everywhere reduced, but they should be at least slightly adjusted by region.For example, for the USA 5-10$ is a trifle, but for a country like India it is quite a lot of money. That's what I'm getting at.
Also pay attention to this:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807866#Comment_3807866
Absolutely, no worries friend! Can assure sure no one here is talking down to you, and apologies if it came across that way!
I can reasonably safely say we are genuinely interested and want to understand, but unfortunately a lot of us do live in the west and are a little ignorant of the issue. 😅
None of us know the standard cost of games in your region and what is normal practice... so we're not asking out of contempt or anything, but it would help us (and likely the deva as well) understand with a little extra context of what is typical your way 😁
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@Emeal said:
I fear these changes are not enough, the problem is that these items are so bad on their own in comparison to other items.
- a Single Map and Key without addons needs to be as powerful as a medkit or toolbox.
I have never EVER considered bringing a map or key in because they are not as useful as a medkit.
Problem is, the top end of maps and keys are actually quite strong, but fundamentally their power is aura reading...
For a newer player aura reading is extremely useful and the aura reading of both iri maps and keys is actually very very good (WoO and Kindred demonstrating how good aura reading is for newer players)...
However for a very experienced player who can acheive the same things without aura reading, maps and keys have significantly diminishing returns, and fundamentally there is no way to make them viable compared to medkits/Toolboxes without making them absolutely ridiculous.
I think the biggest issues for the viability of maps and keys: -
- Green rarity minimum, making them hard for the new player's who actually need them to acquire.
- Inconsistency between rarity meaning varying behaviour/value. (Use the Iri or it kinda sucks).
- Add-on dependent to be useful (especially keys), further pushing them out of new player reach.
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Can't really comment on the relative prices vs. other games in your country...
Just to help, for both DLCs (which contains a killer and 2 survivors) at 3705,00T is about £5.70. In the UK and western world this is not much than the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
The same listing is £9.99 in the UK (2 cups of coffee).
Exchamge rates don't tell the picture accurately, it would help us understand better to have a frame of reference for how much 3705,00T is?
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As for the totems, I'm a bit uncertain about making them tied to an add-on.
That's a fair point, I suppose the issues with hexes being so easy to find at times are for the hexes themselves to solve, not really the responsibility of maps… objection withdrawn :D
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't think it would be over powered but personally the only real change i'd make is starting the game healthy & only not being activating once injured or hooked.
I also wouldn't show the killer that you can't be healed either, being injured is one thing but as soon as most killers know you have no mither your getting tunnelled out.
As someone who plays adept a lot I do play with no mither more than most & i've got used to no mither david & im fine how it is. Gotta say though I must say those that don't get tunnelled do get given the hatch quite a bit if I'm last!
Agreed, I don't think no scratch marks would be OP, but I think the spirit of No Mither is more in this direction as a bait perk. No Mither made more sense when old Dead Hard readily available (and even then it was a meme), but now it's kinda in need of something.
It's one of those weird perks that is actually quite fun to build around. Since it's got that sort of bait quality, it's got it own mind game of asking "Is it worth tunneling the No Mither, or are there shenanigans afoot?" (Almost always yes, there are shenanigans).
I think with the first change (where it isn't active until you are injured), it becomes a lot better at that, so I support that, and it synergises with Dead Hard in the fact you technically have 6 potential health states outside of heals instead of 5 (which is the game standard) 👍
In the same vain however, the not showing broken thing I'm less a fan of... While it would be good to actually get more reliable use out of No Mithers perma Unbreakable, it also has the potential to hide other broken effects, which as well as being messy, could be a problem.... I don't think it's good to have exceptions to a standard rule surrounding the HUD. A big part of DBD is paying attention to the HUD and working out what perks are in play for the opposition. Being broken is an important status condition as part of that loop, and hiding it has the knock on of thinking "is this Iron Will and Unbreakable or No Mither?". Creating that uncertainty is very strong.
I also think the perk loses it's identity a tad... removing the broken status from the killer HUD means it loses that quality as a "bait perk"... and I feel the spirit of No Mither is a "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" type deal.
But yeah, first change, all for 🤘
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Who doesn't love juking Nemesis or baiting a tentacle at the pallet? Peak mind game gameplay and great to see more of him.
I do wish they would draw the line on the ground from the start of the first hitbox to the end of the last one... I have to remind myself to ignore it every single time it catches me xD
I would like the zombies to be scarier though, and something I have to fight a little more... you know where using a pallet on one actually feels like a good idea cause they are an actual threat rather than just a pain in the ass...
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More likely I imagine Red Hook will be working on new projects in the DBD Universe... like the Casting of Frank Stone.
DBD dungeon crawler perhaps?