UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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Always keen to see suggestions for maps/keys.
Maps
Only thing that sticks out to me there is the killer belongings change being basekit makes all maps very good at finding totems... I would argue they're a little too good for countering Hex builds already...
I would change "killer belongings" basekit to just be hooks, and still have the "totems" portion require add-ons investment so Hex perks are not made trivial at base and we can't have max range for finding totems.
Otherwise happy overall. Not too keen on green map being reduced to only 10 seconds, I dont think it needs that nerf, but can live with it.
Keys
Can we change Broken Key to Crooked Key and allow it to open the hatch but it takes 10 seconds and chests in 5 seconds? Then just scale the charges linearly.
It makes so much more sense to still have it able to unlock thing but be slower at doing it rather than just not being able to do things period...
I would also given keys the ability to reveal the auras of chests within 32m as a basekit as well, so it's active ability without appropriate addons actually does something.
Otherwise pretty happy.
🤘🤘🤘🤘
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@cluelessclaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807256#Comment_3807256
You need to realize not everyone wants to write a thesis on a video game forum. I'll just say your "style" of "discussion" is hardly "objective".
Since you insist though.
This challenge requires a safe unhook after gates open. We can derive some empirical observations from this,
- This is one of the few challenges requiring certain circumstances that are not prevalent in every match, i.e. gates opening or another survivor
- It also requires that someone be on the hook while gates open and that you unhook. Too many scenarios to list out but this requires 2-3 people plus the killer
- The chances of this happening every match is no more than 50% due to win rates and the "setup" required. I'd guess drastically lower than 50%
- This challenge is not skill focused like the other challenges, it is heavily heavily dependent on circumstances out of the players control
- This requires more time due to "bad luck" scenarios for players and reaching gate opening
- To increase the chances of the above circumstances, as a survivor, your only recourse is to "troll" the game (delay opening gates or leave someone on the hook, then open gates, not heal someone after all generators are created)
- There are no positive actions as a survivor that you can do to increase the chances of the circumstances besides opening the gate
- all other actions to increase the likelihood of an unsafe hook after gates opening require you to troll the game
From these empirical observations, the average player attempting this challenge (and other feedback in the thread) have mentioned this causes "toxic" behavior. Other gate related challenges for the killer and etc encourage players to play the game in such a way that the developers do not want and would constitute as "trolling".
I'd argue this challenge brings a negative experience to the tomes, has timed rift shards that are also tied to a paid product (Rift Premium Pass), and feels very counter intuitive to the words "Master challenge". Lastly, it has no respect for the player's (customer) time. This is a negative experience on a video game that is supposed to provide entertainment. The author understands entertainment varies from person to person, and some find harder challenges to be entertainment. I strongly reiterate and emphasize that this challenge has timed rift shards that is tied to a paid product (Premium Rift Pass). I only have two survivor challenges left and I am not nearly done the rift pass.
Lastly I'd like to add, someone's anecdotal experience on "I got it on my first try" is a strawman argument at best and irrelevant to the discussion. It's comical to think that everyone else in the community is getting this on the first try.
😀
Personal snipes aside, this was a lot better.
Your post there contains Point, Evidence, Explain, giving you a much better basis for an objective argument. There are points in there I agree with, some I don't, but look at this post compared to your first. This post is far stronger in explaining the problem, and communicates compelling reasons why this kind of challenge should be changed, and I would have to work MUCH harder to refute it.
A message should be as long as it needs to be to be strong and clear. Single paragraphs more often than not are unsubstantiated clickbait, the problems of which are rife in social media.
However now, I wouldn't refute your post as readily, cause though I disagree with your assessment of how rare this scenario is, I agree with your points that this is more of a luck based challenge, not based on skill, and there is a certain amount of suboptimal play required to capitalise on those scenarios.
However I would argue that this is somewhat the nature of a challenge, in every single challenge you need some element of luck and suboptimal play, and there are far more egregious challenges than this in DBD, but it is fair to say its more of a luck challenge than a skill one, and now yours and my disagreement is moving more towards some kind of resolution/middleground.
Regarding my own objectivity, I at no point claimed my anecdotal evidence was fact... I stated it was my experience or my opinion and nothing more. I don't think the luck requirement is bad, because I don't view it as a particularly rare scenarion. It is often the case in my games that when getting the gate open the killer is occupied in chase... if they aren't, they don't often let me get the gate open unchallenged. It is thus then rare for them not to be in chase when I open the gate, and it is also rare that a survivor manages to escape from the killer in the one vs. one even with the gate open without my help via body blocking and alike. You can decide for yourself how likely my experience is to be true, I don't think I am saying anything unreasonable, but you are free to challenge me on it.
This is how discussion works, and you can either engage with my points and try to refute them, or can instead ignore me/just try to undermine me like you did at first… 1 is more productive than the other.
All that said, I hope there is no animosity. While I don't entirely agree with your point, I do at least see where you're coming from.
Cheers.
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I feel like the pool of meta perks for survivor is about the same, I'm not really surprised/upset about it.
Creating off meta builds is fun, and in order to do that, things have to be off meta 😅
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🍪
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804674#Comment_3804674
Haha. I get Blood Warden value quite often actually…. players gotta get that final insult in, after all.
Click to view the GIFCatching goofy named tea bagging survivors at gate with BW. 😏
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Just saying, hooks are 70s now to make camping and tunneling less effective.
Of course convincing your soloQ teammates to leave you on hook for longer than 15s instead of sprinting across the map like you owe them money is a challenge, but it is what it is.
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Does anyone else find it kinda novel to have tier 1 versions of perks?
Kinda shakes up which perks are more valuable than others… even with my obsessive addiction for the past 18 months, I can't remember the effects of T1 versions of perks :D -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805772#Comment_3805772
from ptb, i knew that he had big potencial to be strong killer but his initial numbers were too poor to showcase his strengths. Now he is showcasing some of his strengths as a killer. i honestly considering writing as post about dracula to be 4.4 m/s killer where his hellfire ability would be slightly improved and his wolf form pounce be improved but his m/s reduced. scent orbs would no longer grant haste but would be more focused on long range tracking similar to how Oni's blood orbs work.
I think he'd be higher skill-floor and skill-cieling spirit since you'd have to optimize and use his bat correctly to make up for his lower m/s on wolf and vampire form.
That does actually sound very interesting, though this would kill him on console.... Both flame pillar and wolf are hard to use on a controller, even at 4.6, and even Bat isn't too easy to use on controller.
Flame Pillar is like trying to use Xeno tail with all the terrain hitting issues, quadruple the wind up time and no ability to drag the hit.
Wolf Pounce is like trying hit a Wesker pounce while trying to do an old Hillbilly curve at same time.
Bat feels like Dredge, where most of the time you're fine, but every now and again you click the wrong window and fly way short/way past where you intended.
I've managed to make most killer work somewhat on console, usually there are one or two add-ons that helps a LOT... but Dracula doesn't have any addons really that help you out on console other than maybe the extra scent cooldown on Wolf... and the one that should (the homing pillars), does absolutely nothing xD
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I feel like a lot of the problems of Knockout are solved by simply flipping the timed and permanent effects over...
Though it does become a bit of a "slug for the 4k" perk with that change... also permanent slow crawl sounds very frustrating... Limiting the crawl to 60s might be reasonable.
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@cluelessclaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806777#Comment_3806777
naw not upset. I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something. Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone. keep going into feedback discussions and keep derailing discussions and discounting others experiences, and then saying "I'm not a jerk". That's some seriously funny ######### 😀
I wasn't gonna respond further since I didn't want to escalate anything further than I may have unintentionally already done, but since you've called me out:
I can call something crappy or bad game design and not be upset. Its possible to be objective about something.
You dont seem to understand what objective is. You can of course call something crappy, but without objective argumentation, your statement is a subjective opinion.
"really crappy game design. crappier that its tied to the rift pass (paid product)." is an subjective opinion, not substantiated with fact. You need actual arguments and evidence for it to be objective, and if you are truly objective, you would be open to debate and argumentation from an opposing perspective to help define truth. That's what objective is, it has nothing to do with how you "feel", it's trying to define truth.
Your stats seem wrong. I doubt gates open 50% of the time.
Stats are stats. They are only as good as the evidence you choose to ignore, but since the target average kills per game is 2.4 from BHVRs own postings, then gates open at least 40% of the time. Given you can not have 2 people escape without the gate open and Nightlight shows we have 48% of games ending in a 2k or less, that shows a 50% gate open rate on average for all players.
This is a set of objective arguments, it's not "I think", my arguments have evidence and facts that have informed my opinion. The quality of that evidence is debatable since Nightlight is a community project, but that's the point of objective argumentation, you scrutinise the logic and evidence for its validity, but your conclusions must be drawn from fact not feelings.
Annoyed enough I gave up on this trash challenge. I played 5 games today and they have been gate escapes with 3 people. One person dying before gates open.
I even considered not opening the gate one game so the killer would kill the chase and then open the gate. See how this is bad game design? The challenge is encouraging me to literally troll the game.
You anecdotal experience still has value, and some statements here are useful. Your killers are obviously struggling quite heavily with being unable to secure a single hook at end game.
It is not unreasonable to say that something where you are forced to play in a way antithetical to your objective is problematic design, however unfortunately all we can do here is compare anecdotal experiences... but survivor being hooked at end game with the team needing to decide if they wanna make the save and reset is not a rare phenomenon in my experience... and the fact you keep reaching end game but the killer can't get a down seems to suggest you and your team are playing exceptionally well against less successful killers.
btw anytime someone has to say:
I'm not being a jerk my man
usually more often than not, they've been a goon in some manner or fashion enough to annoy someone.
And lastly to address this... we are communicating via text. You cannot read my inflections, my body language, my facial or audio cues in order to read intent, nor can I do the same for you.
You started this thread in a manner that suggests you are kinda volatile and quick to anger. I have a taken a different opinion to you, I'm not trying to annoy you, but I wanted to disagree, somethimg I have a right to do... but I knew there was a very real possibility your anger/frustration gets turned on me.
Me saying "I'm not being a jerk man" is not the result of me being a goon, it's me trying to defuse an argument before it happens, though clearly thats been in vain.
In any case. I disagree with your statement. I think this challenge is fine. Sorry you've had bad luck with it, hope you manage to get it in the near future.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806988#Comment_3806988
I mean this is the forums, it's literally designed for feedback both good and bad. I do get what you mean though. Sometimes it's hard to see nothing but complaints everywhere but if nobody complained about anything then no changes would ever happen, and sometimes those changes really do need to happen. (I'm not talking about the modifiers just in general) It's a shame the community can't be more appreciative though.
Yeah I mean that's fair, constructive criticism is great…
But if you read the OP... sheesh xD
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Why do people keep getting mad at limited time modes that they don't even have to play? Like who is forcing you? Same as Light's Out... why do people who hate the mode play it and then complain? 😅
I thought people loved Chaos Shuffle... it was very popular last time...
2vs8 haters had a legit argument because that did hurt queue time for the regular game, but what's with people suddenly going in hard on fun little modes they can literally ignore for no penalty? 😅
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Not saying the OPs experience isn't accurate at, as lobby shopping and backfill has always been a thing...
However threads like this amuse me, cause we also get a bunch of threads saying stuff like "Being constantly matched with people of similar MMR is so stressful, it makes the games uber sweaty and unfun!"
I now consider SMMR to stand for Schrodinger's Match Making Rating. Simultaneously ruining your games with sweaty players of your own level and pitting 10'000 hours players against 10 hour players at the same time.
Of course we only need to look at the completely one sided nonsense of the PTB to see what games with no MMR are like... it looks awful, but we skate happily by that little detail in our MMR bashing quest 😏
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Not a bad idea at all.
I liked the idea of giving Rookie Spirit a niche as the gen tap perk. When you start repairing a regressing generator immediately stops regressing...
However this is probably far more useful in the meta xD
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@cluelessclaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806591#Comment_3806591
yeah you're definitely being "That guy" right now.
I've spent 2 days (close to 6 hours) trying to do this and Ive set up my perks to ensure its done safely. Nothing. maybe dont gas light other peoples experiences based on your own anecdotal experience.
I'm not trying to be a jerk man... just I don't see why this challenge is so difficult, for all the reasons I described at length in my post using objective reasoning, and I offered some suggestions and points of play to help out that worked for me... and has worked several times before with these types of challenges.
You may say my anecdotal experience doesn't matter, but by that same token, doesn't your anecdotal experience also not matter, since it is being used as your primary evidence for why this kind of challenge is a problem element of the game that should be forever removed?
I'm not trying to gas light you, gas lighting is using psychological manipulation tactics to make you question your own sanity or powers of reasoning... I have merely disagreed with you, which a totally different thing.
This is why I asked if you were tilted, because none of us are immune to tilt; we all play far worse when we get tilted, and what's worse is we don't even realise we are a lot of the time. I actually have a rule with my friends that if they can hear that I'm tilted they have to quote a certain line from AVGN at me to snap me out of tilt and remind me to take a break.
I asked because you've blown up out of the gate in this thread, started throwing statements around like "really crappy design" and "how often do survivors even open the gates?" like this challenge is impossible, when the reality is far from....
For example, taking the latter statement, Survivors must open the gates any time there is a 2k or less... we can obviously still get 3ks and 4ks while the gates are open, but for simplicity let's assume that all 3ks and 4ks are hatch games since this favours your argument. In a 2k scenario there is a reaaonably good chance another Survivor is hooked and savable.
If Nightlight is anything to go by, the gates are opened in the absolute worst case scenario 48% of the time...
You may have been exceptionally unlucky but if we assume you have a 50% chance to open the gate and a 50% chance to be one of the 2 survivors alive. That means you should get a chance 1 in every 4 games. In 6 hours you should have had close to 20 games or so... which means you should have had close to 4 or 5 chances to get it... and this is using worst case scenario stats...
So I'm not being a jerk my man, but you're clearly quite upset, maybe justifiably if your luck has been that bad. I myself have gone on 10 games losing streaks before, and that happens in any game. Howeveri t may be beneficial to take a step back and think objectively what's gone wrong with your games, and really consider if this challenge is as hard as it appears.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806637#Comment_3806637
Do you have any thoughts on how m1 killers level the playing other than running Enduring and Spirit Fury constantly?
Hahaha. They don't play around it. their already weak chase just get weaker.
I'm trying to be open minded man xD
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Click to view the GIF
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Alright, so it's an interesting idea, but thus far this appears to be a straight up nerf to killers and a flat buff across the board to survivors… Any trade offs for survivors? Maybe dropping one causes exhaustion? Can't be picked up by AMN?
Also seems the likes of Nemesis, Alien, Pyramid Head, Nurse, Dracula don't care anywhere near as much since they can hit over pallets, but this hits Bubba, Hillbilly and Blight far more.
Also seems to hurt m1 killers more than m2 killers, since m1 killers tend to have to swing for hits to force pallets to be thrown, and now they are punished even harder by a stronger stun for doing so.
Do you have any thoughts on how m1 killers level the playing other than running Enduring and Spirit Fury constantly?
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@A_T_E said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806591#Comment_3806591
https://giphy.com/gifs/badboys-bad-boys-for-life-badboysforlife-Q8y5lBigYQ7X1wYbqK
"Now 2 hooks after end game collapse has started in the same trial… That challenge is a swine…"
XD
I saw and couldnt leave out how brutal that is man... like 1 is fair enough... 2 across multiple games, fine... can probably do some work with STBFL/Rapid Brutality and be alright.... but 2 in the same game!? 💀💀💀💀
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Sorry to be that guy… but you're referring to this?:
Last Minute Hero
Safely unhook 1 Survivor after the Endgame Collapse has begun.
Are you sure you're not tilted and just need a break? I'm not trying to be an arse at all… but this isn't even hard to do… I did it in pretty much my first attempt, and didn't even blink when I saw it in the list….
Any game where you get gates powered with more than one survivor alive you can do this… and is certainly not uncommon to have multiple survivors alive at end game. Its a 60% kill rate afterall, you'll get a game where you're there at end game with more than 1 person alive, and you can easily just throw yourself at it to get the unhook… take No One Left Behind, Overcome and Borrowed Time/Babysitter, maybe PlotTwist/Self Care to make sure you can be fully healed, and even if the killer finds you after opening gate, unless they are an instantdown killer, they can't stop your safe unhook.
99ing the gate is rarely actually required in most scenarios, and tbh, is probably not a good idea a lot of the time. Just opening the gates is the safer move so that you can't possibly screw up the sprint to the exit, and you still have 4 minutes to make the unhook… Blood Warden is possible, but it's far from common enough to realistically worry about.
Accounting for more than one player, any player with an ounce of intelligence against the killer will wait for you before they go for the unhook, as you need 2 to pull it off successfully. You can even exploit that and just open the gate, and again instead of doing it the correct way (take a hit and run while your ally unhooks), just run up, tank the hit and unhook raw. Whether you escape or not doesn't matter if you want the challenge done…
Honestly I find the iridescent badges harder to get… it doesn't seem to matter how much you do of specific actions, it seems to boil down to "dominate the game" to get either 3 or 4 iridescents or you get none… no in between.
EDIT: Now 2 hooks after end game collapse has started in the same trial… That challenge is a swine… I had to take Artist and keep the whole team injured on death hook and then keep a player slugged at all times until they powered the gates so I could down a player, open the gate and then get my 2 hooks. I let the other 2 go as an apology.
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We all understand the problem of map offerings... however before we go ahead and nuke maps offerings, there is one problem that must be addressed...
We need to think around map specific achievements.
There are trophy hunters who bring in a lot of footfall in games, and whether we like it or not, there is a lot incentive to keep trophies/achievements prominently in your game. Regardless of your personal opinion of them, they do sell content and generate a lot of money for the game.
Now I have done all the trophies for DBD, I don't normally go for trophies, but if I like a game enough and enjoy just playing it generally (and the trophies are mostly reasonable) I will go for trophies...
A very large number of achievements in DBD require specific maps, and as such players need to be able to somehow control the map they are on... now you CAN do this over time, just by playing the game... it's how I did it, cause I couldn't save up enough offerings to control maps as I levelled up every character in the game... but I'm a DBD addict and it'd be dumb to expect most players to do it the way I did it.
However certain trophies like "Haemophobia" (escape the trial without being injured on Disturbed Ward) are plain brutal, even if you have map offerings...again... I did it without... but if we are to get rid of map offerings, this is your main blocker...
I can't really see how you can delete map offerings given this problem... Fixing maps to be balanced, while significantly more difficult, is realistically the only solution....
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@SoGo said:
Nurse's Calling is really good actually. I use it quite often. Another perk which kinda fell off is Tinkerer, which I also use often.
Both of them aren't weak at all, people just moved on to something else. Which is a shame, but whatever.
On the survivor side, I'd say Empathy is a perk that just fell off for no reason other then change of taste.
Empathy is still my favourite info perk survivor side. 🤘😁🤘
Nurse's Calling for me kinda has the same effect as Borrowed Time... because you don't see it often it just isn't in your mind, and often even when you get the clue it's in play, you still tend to second guess/miss its that perk responsible and get caught by it again when it really matters 😅
BT is my entry, and I feel it's a litttle slept on, cause whenever I use it, my team almost always gets some value out of it. You can be a little more reckless with unhooks and I've caught the killer out with it almost every time.
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A idea I've been banging around in my head is a mechanic modelled off the Pig RBTs.
The Pig can of course tunnel, but tunneling a survivor with an active head trap is a waste of her time/power. This survivor can't do gens with a headtrap, so you're better off applying pressure on other survivors to get value out of your power.
With this concept in mind, I've been toying with the idea that the unhooked survivor suffers a temporary repair penalty that after a short while begins to degrade over time (lets call it despair)... however the other survivors get a repair boost in line with how much the effect has degraded if a survivor suffering with despair is hooked/caged/killed/downed for 30s (lets call it conviction).
Using some goofy not thought out numbers for the sake of getting the idea across:
- Despair: The hooked survivor gets a 15% repair speed penalty for 30s that then degrades to 0 over the course of another 90s.
- Conviction: If a teammate suffering from despair loses a hook stage or is downed for 30s while under the effects of despair, the rest of the team gets a permanent repair speed boost that scales from 5% down to 0% based on how much despair has transgressed.
The obvious trade off is killers who spread hooks get a stronger team wide slowdown than a killer who tunnels the same player off hook repeatedly... and also the tunneling killer gets actively punished for it.
I've not suggested it cause it has problems. Notably that this heavily favours mobile killers who can traverse the map more efficiently, and also makes DS even more of a weapon survivors can exploit... it also means players who survive longer while being tunneled are punished for surviving longer, and players who want to quit can actually give their team a hell of a buff on their way to intentionally dying.
So more problems than it solves... but it is fun to think about.
EDIT: Suppose you could simplify it to:
- Last hooked survivor has a 15% repair penalty permanently until the next survivor is hooked.
- Hooking/Slugging for 30s the same survivor consecutively gives a 5% repair speed boost to the the rest of the team.
But there is still probably some clever idea killer in here somewhere regardless xD
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@MindGame3301 said:
Is fried liver a chess opening, im curious.
The fried liver attack is a very famous opening by White that can potentially win the game in 4 moves if black doesn't react correctly.
It's typically used by people against beginners to catch them out early, but it is an overcommitment by white, so if black doesn't fall for the trap, black ends up in a much stronger position overall.
In the chess world it is generally advised not to play the Fried Liver because it doesn't use/develop chess fundamentals, so If you use it, you inflate your win rate and will start going against better players who know how to deal with it, and then you'll have none of the fundamental tools to compete at that level...
Now I've said it, I feel the analogy is actually more accurate than I originally gave it credit for 😅
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Analogy-wise, basement Trapper is DBDs fried liver player... if someone falls for it he absolutely destroys them...
However anyone who knows what they're doing, or whenever he plays anything else, he gets absolutely smoked 🤣
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If I were to create a OC DBD chess set:
Survivor: -
- Pawns: Pallets.
- Knights: Kate and Nea vaulting windows.
- Bishops: Jake and Meg shining flashlights.
- Rooks: Jane and Dwight sticking their heads out of lockers.
- Queen: Yui lifting a pallet with AMN.
- King: Ace opening a chest.
Killer: -
- Pawns: Hex totems.
- Knights: Legion and Singularity vaulting windows.
- Bishops: Huntress and Deathslinger aiming hatchets/gun.
- Rooks: Hillbilly and Blight smashing pallets.
- Queen: Nurse charging a blink.
- King: Trapper setting a trap.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805670#Comment_3805670
I attempted to read the math. Unfortunately I was hungover, so I quickly gave up.
Ahahahaha, fair.
The main highlights were: -
- A basic medkit you get more than 2 heals for allies.
- Gel dressings gives you more than 3 heals for allies.
- Max charge addons gives you more than 4 heals for allies.
- Max charge addons and Streetwise gives you 5 heals for allies.
- You need at minimum gel dressings (or the 2 +8 add-ons) to heal an ally and still have enough for yourself.
- You still get 2 heals with Botany Knowledge.
- Max charge addons, Streetwise and Botany Knowledge gives you 2 heals for allies and 1 heal leftover for yourself.
Basically the more charges you have the tastier it gets on this perk.
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@TieBreaker said:
It's definitely an improvement. But I'm not really sure what you could do to make the perk even moderately popular. Maybe all three stats could get buffed to 50% for a minute? I don't know. The perk just feels really pointless.
Chest opening speed buffs suck. Totem cleansing speed buffs suck almost as much. Healing speed increases are useful, but it's eclipsed by other perks.
Maybe it needs some other effect added to it. Like making healed survivors exhaustion recover faster for a limited time? Like an altruistic but weaker version of vigil?
Thats fair, I was tempted to add something else, but I got a bit lost in maths world and was a little concerned about overstacking it. 😅
Status recovery would be a nice buff, maybe 20%?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805556#Comment_3805556
I’m asking questions because your initial comment implied you believed the survivor hooked first was somehow responsible for the killer slugging. You even stated it bothered you more that this survivor tried to die on hook than the killer slugging you and another survivor after you attempted to rescue this survivor (this detail came out later, it wasn’t in your initial comment). If you were trying to make a point about people dying early on hook (it seems disjointed from the topic at hand, and the game wasn’t even against a Skull Merchant. I think you’re backpedaling tbh) you did it in a very bizarre way.
I stand by exactly what I said, I'm not backpeddling at all.
Feel free to look back at it and fact check. My original statement was in relation to the fact that survivors continually SoH against her got Skull Merchant completely butchered. She needed nerfs as the MMR win rate showed, but the behaviour of survivors in this case forced the action that was taken to completely neuter her. There are not a small number of people that believe SoH in this case was perfectly justified... despite the dangerous precedent it sets. Quit enough and get a killer destroyed.
I was making the point that SoH was not isolated to SM; it happens all the time against various killers. We'vd already had a thread sayimg Chucky needs the same treatment. This is disgusting to say the least that people think this is OK. Then I anecdotally shared that as I was typing that comment, matchmaking popped and I got put in a game vs. Freddy where the exact point I was making occurred. Again, there are not a small number of survivors that don't consider SoH in scenario I've described as a problem (if they did, it wouldn't happen).
I didn't say the survivors were responsible at all for the the team being slugged, what I stated was I don't know the motivation for why Freddy slugged, maybe he slugged Steve for SoH, and maybe he slugged me for preventing him. Maybe he slugged us all to be a douche, who knows?
The point is SoH is a problem even irrespetive of SM, and was a major reason Skull Merchant got gutted the way she did.
EDIT: And yes, the SoH player does annoy me more than being slugged for 4 minutes by the killer, as my prior comment explains. If you have a different opinion, that's fine, but for me personally SoH is a far, far more frequent and annoying problem.
I can count the number of times Ive been 4 man slugged for 4 minutes on 1 hand. I've lost maybe 1 in 10 games to players SoH, so yeah... it annoys me far me more.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805466#Comment_3805466
Wait, suicide on hook against Freddy?!?
But he barely has anything.
Yeah I know... it's baffling why survivors think it's OK just cause they cba.
I genuinely believe SoH is a blight on the game, and the Skull Merchant being butchered how she was just highlights how much of a problem it truly is.
I understand the point of the 4% being in the game... and we lose a lot more than just those lucky successful attempts removing it... but seriously something has yo be done about the quitters...
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805458#Comment_3805458
Is your position that this survivor is somehow responsible for the killer slugging everyone?
What kind of asinine comment is that? No... of course not, that would be bloody stupid... and frankly boiling down everything I said into just that is just plain dishonest and disrespectful 🤨
My point is the game was ruined by the Steve trying to SoH, so who cares about the slug? Game was written off anyway, and the only reason we were all in a position we even could be slugged is cause of this quitter.
I of course don't condone the 4 minute slug, but I don't know you why you are so hung up on it. The only reason the slug was even mentioned was to emphasise how much more annoying SoH is by comparison for me. I don't care about the slug cause the game was already dead... You're focusing on the wrong part of the conversation man.
That is the way I feel about it, SoH is a worse crime than slugging for 4 minutes... or am I not allowed to have that opinion? Have I gotta be a good sheep and say "SoH is fine cause there are unfun elements of the game"?
At least with Slug all 4 players the dork ruining everyone else's game has to actually catch everyone, he didn't have to do nothing to do it, and while it's definitely lame at least an argument can be made the killer is against you. Spawn camping sucks and is just as lame and unfun as well, but they are at least your opponent.
With SoH it's the opposite, the dork can literally ruin the game without any effort whatsoever, and they even say "screw you" to their own side in the process. Even against Skull Merchant it's unacceptable behaviour.
If you can't understand that point, I have to assume you are a player who thinks it's fine to Suicide on Hook, and I can only hope this conversation sheds some light on perhaps why you shouldn't do it... cause you make this game more infuriating than the killer slugging everyone for 4 minutes.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805434#Comment_3805434
How would they tell 1 Freddy apart from another? He doesn't even have cosmetics.
Not to mention you can't suicide on hook if your aren't hooked... Freddy was playing normally at the start of the game. Hooked the Steve, and started another chase.
Didn't ask him, but maybe he considered me and Jane bullies, as I've been told by people in this forum I should just let SoH survivors leave. Maybe he took issue with the attempted SoH and me and Jane denying it. He slugged us with the Dwight on hook, so he died on hook, and bled out the rest of us.
I vehemently disagree on letting SoHers leave, it is always in your interest to unhook, but it's not inconceivable I got slugged for being "toxic" myself.
I don't consider sticking up for a principle toxic however. I am more than happy to get slugged for 4 mins to ensure a SoHer can't quickly escape to go ruin more games.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805396#Comment_3805396
Why were you more upset with a baby survivor trying to unhook than the killer who slugged all the survivors for four minutes & went AFK? That baby survivor may have faced this killer before and knew what was going to happen.
I'm suprised you should think I would be less annoyed at a teammate who is willing to sell me and the rest of the team down the river and guarantee we all lose because they're a selfish entitled brat.
Imagine playing football, and a player on your team deliberately dribbles the ball into your own net because they don't like the team you're playing against. Why did they even bother agreeing to play in the first place if that was a planned course of action for them?
Getting slugged for 4 mins by the killer is annoying yes, but at that point the game was already lost from the attempted SoH. Why should I be less irritated at being forced to either quit myself, or play a man down for an even longer drawn out painful death? By trying to SoH, my supposed teammate is telling me to screw myself as much as they are the killer.
SoH for anything less than giving hatch is extremely selfish, and totally unacceptable behaviour. Anyone who does it, if I had my way would be banned for days at a time.
Going back to my football example, do you think I'd just let them do it? Hell no, I'd tackle them hard, and probably not be too concerned about going in too hard for a potential injury. I wouldn't try to injure them, but wouldn't care if I did. Far as I'm concerned, that's doing the game a favour by getting them to stay off the field and stop ruining games.
When it comes to these players, either take chase constantly and try and score the rest of us as much time as possible, or at the very least have enough integrity to eat your damn DC penalty and give us a bot.
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@BlackRabies said:
It's the same reason as old Evelyn from League of Legends had. She's just horrible, unfun to play against so they'll nerf her to the ground to discourage anyone from playing her until they can rework her into a more healthy state for both sides.
I didn't had any issues with her since I knew her counters and she's rather easy to deal with. Only reason the matches were hard was when someone kept giving up on hook.
What's annoying is this often happens to more killers than just Skull Merchant.
Clown, Wraith, Blight, Nurse, Hillbilly, even Ghost Face... even as I typed this message, queue popped and I got a game with an immediate first hook attempted SoH against Freddy. Needless to say I yoinked the baby back into the game and we all then got slugged to death for 4 minutes.
Thankfully he went afk after that and I was able to report him for that. Worth it. Not even mad to be slugged for 4 minutes. I get so much more annoyed at Survivors who quit more than anything any killer has ever done.
BHVR said Skull Merchant had a 68% killrate at mid MMR even with accounting for players dying on first hook against her. I'm not gonna be that guy who says "well you can clearly track it then", I know you cant go issuing bans without a truly infallible system.... but good lord I do wish BHVR would kick these quitting losers hard in the teeth with hefty multi day bans for this obnoxious selfish behaviour.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804839#Comment_3804839
i would laugh if they gave me Lightning spear. Now i can kill survivors by throwing lightning spears at my opponent. Maybe it would be cool if there was like a water-type power where you put water on the floor and than you ricochet lightning projectiles off objects to hit the water on the floor.
Solaire Legendary after he has gone mad from the head crab?
Fantastic 😏
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Ahahahaha that would be hilarious... he has to be killer... cause I honestly feel like literally every killer can't harm him xD
He saw Mikaela light a boon, and the Entity told him all survivors are filthy magic users... thus Havel's murder spree begins...
Lore done. Ship it.
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My understanding is, while Blight's power is very strong, there are structures his power cannot function in.
As a hypothetical extreme example, if you put a moderately sized rock in a completely open space with nothing to bounce off, and run around it tightly in a circle, at 4.4m/s Blight can literally do nothing.
Huntress has this exact problem too already, short huggable tiles she can't throw over are a major pain point for Huntress... but she at least can theoretically win an m2 mind game (though it is very difficult/unlikely).
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@SpicySliceOfApplePie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804647#Comment_3804647
just yesterday I got a fun pig game on ormond where all the survivors were being super altruistic (I had all 4 traps down within 3 minutes of the match starting), they ended up deadzoning shack side completely and removing half of the pallets on the other side. By the endgame I has 2 dead 2 dead hook, downed the meg and the Jane was waiting at the exit, not trying to help meg she just wanted me to watch her leave, so I hooked meg and got blood warden 4K :3
This was also the same day I got my first gen grab as pig, then another one the very next match, both ended as 4Ks and in the second match I even had somebody give up XD
You only get caught by Blood Warden once... you learn to just leave forever more afterwards xD
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Man I had to sleep on it... in the end for killers I had to go for: -
- Trickster - The mask and shoulder buffs actually make him look a little more directly intimidating, but still true to the character... the flamboyant outfit somehow emanates the sinister side of Ji Woon Hak.
- Hag - I don't like many of the Hag skins... this one actually looked really cool with the ash tattoos, and I loved the bone totem concept... I also hope we get the "younger" looking version of Lisa.
- Huntress - Heartwrenching choice... I really like all of them... I couldn't choose... but in the end that white wolf skin head piece/shawl just couldn't be ignored... I wanted to pick a killer with less cosmetics available like Singu, Unknown... or hasn't had some for a long time, like Nurse. Dredge has had some amazing cosmetics so asgood as they were I had to decline... I loved the Koi for Spirit, but I feel like she has a solid number of cosmetics that are similar already.... despite that... this Huntress skin was beautiful... and I just couldn't unchecked it...
Survivors: -
- Elodie - I liked the simplicity of this outfit, but it also had a bit of flair for Elodie built in subtlely. I feel like this is actually somethingyou would spot Elodie wearing if you passed by her IRL. Elodie also needs some more options.
- Adam - Just oozes character. Great entry.
- Gabriel - You mean it's not an orange sleeveless jacket? Say it ain't so...
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Damn... that first page got me stuck... I kinda like all of them 😶😶😶
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@CrossTheSholf said:
Oink
👉🐽
Welcome ladies and gentleman of Swine...
Pop quiz: favourite Pig build - GO!
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Jesus... This is the very dangerous precedent that gets set by such a thing...
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I have had to start slugging a lot more nowadays by virtue of the survivor swarms... I don't usually go super mean, but when those flashies start flocking...
Click to view the GIFUnless they god tier... then it's me doing the learning... 😖😖😖
Click to view the GIF -
I wouldn't at all be upset to see Boil Over sent to the Gulag...
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801956#Comment_3801956
I am from EU servers lol
How curious... I wonder why there is such a difference between me and you... legit I've not seen any point higher that 75%.
Granted its still usually on survivor side... but I've only seen swings of 0-75% 😅
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@Kaitsja said:
I think it would be better if map offerings were changed so that they work opposite to how they currently do.
So, for example, if you're sick to death of getting the same realm repeatedly, you put up a map offering to avoid that realm specifically.
This could be used by killers, too, to avoid survivor-sided realms like Badham Preschool. Survivors could use it to avoid Haddonfield. I think we have enough realms now that it wouldn't really present a problem if five players all put up five different map offerings.
The only issue with that is survivors get 4 maps they can block to the killers 1, which seems a little unfair... Survivors can block Midwich, Haddonfield, Toba Landing and Hawkins all at once, while the killer can only block one of Badham, Garden of Joy or Eyrie... seems there is not much point, might as well just take a blood point offering.
The current system is slightly survivor stacked by virtue of the fact survivors can take multiple different offerings to ensure they have a better chance to get a map they like... but that assumes the killer is taking their own offering, and it's harder to plan around exploits that way...
Maybe if you give the killer 2 offering slots instead of 1, that might work...
Alternatively, although it might be a little extreme... having map offerings come with some kind of associated penalty might be interesting...
Like say a 25% bloodpoint and devotion level (iri shard progress) penalty for the player who took the map offering (and their SWF for survivors), while the other side gets 25% on both the other way.
For survivors, have it so it only applies to people who were teamed in the pre-game lobby, so as not to affect SoloQ. This then makes it so playing a nasty strategy is doable, but discouraged, but also incentivises players to take up the challenge of them for the rewards, or at the very least softens the blow.
Taking a map offering is something you'd likely only do for achievements in this case, and remove a lot of stigma around it.
It seems more fair, you get the advantage of being able to plan your build around the realm you chose, thus making the game easier for you, and in turn you get a penalty to account progress as a result.
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🌱
A sapling, to sprout anew as the true version of O Mercador de Caveira.
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@invisatron said:
I don’t main only one killer but I mostly play pig, Freddy, and wraith. Can I join?
All boop enjoyers are welcome 🤘^🐽^🤘
You seem to have a taste for stealth and punishing survivor mistakes judging by your killer choices 😉
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801809#Comment_3801809
That's honestly what I do as a Ghostface Main, the mode IS very easy for him and I won't deny that, so I have been being pretty damn nice and even letting people go.
I genuinely want to spook people so I'm playing the Stealth Killers I love because extra spooky, I don't see an issue with them having better stealth than normal because of that.
Ghostface is good because he can just swivel into the darkness with his power until someone's icon starts lighting up, and he can find people when he shouldn't be able to.
He can literally always do that. On every dark or indoor map. The info from being Revealed is part of his power, always has been, and a good Ghostface can use that outside the mode too - or is just never caught because they run Shroud cooldown addons. This point is moot.
I remember seeing a ghost face stalking me just at the very edge of the fog... I couldn'tsee his mouth and I swear to God he looked straight up like a shyguy xD
Also this mode goes up to 200%? In the EU I haven't seen more that 75% either way.... 🤔🤔🤔🤔
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I kept playing killers I thought would be fun to hear off in the dark...
I played killers like Huntress, Billy, Oni, Demogorgon... Dark Lord and going Awoooooo doesn't get old...
The problem each time was Survivors had a tendency to 3 gen themselves. I wasn't trying to defend a 3 gen, but generally I found in each case I had to just run around the gens trying to find survivors, and that seemed to often result in a tight 3 gen... I guess because the central gens are something you naturally patrol more often.
As survivor I've usually done quite well... mostly cause I often try to break the central gens I wpuld guess, and I suppose whereas in regular DBD I'm often found firdt hen trying to do that, in Light's Out I've often slipped by unnoticed...
I've had fun with the mode, haven't played a huge amount, but if going in with the mindset to try and make it spoopy/have fun it's more enjoyable than playing it really trying to win.