UlvenDagoth
UlvenDagoth
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882099#Comment_882099
I'm with it. I'll back you up if you make ur own post pressing the devs for a change.
Technically My "One stop shop for Legion Rework Ideas" thread in Feedback is me yelling at them to fix Legion.
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@LordEmrich said:
Look, guise, they just need to leave the Killers alone. The Survivors aren't supposed to be having fun; the Killers are. That's literally why they're trapped in there for the Killer to play with. The fact that Survivors can end a game in 5 minutes but not a single Killer can do the same is ridiculous. But yea let's keep destroying the Killers so the Survivors can enjoy what is supposed to be their torture.
NO reason to try and make this a side war by being snarky.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882281#Comment_882281
By maining legion i needed to understand when to maintain myself calm. Either way this wasn't one of those cases xD
The guy is friendly so im gonna be friendly too.
yeah I just get so annoyed that everyone is thinking this is just the best thing ever for Legion when it is overall a nerf.
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everyone says that.
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I can't say I approve, but I can say I see how this would be fun. I do approve of you giving one the hatch after you experimented.... holy crap you were BEING THE DOCTOR!
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@FriendlyGuy said:
You guys are right. The killer i outplayed many many time, that just lost three generators and ruin, just got technical difficulties. Srsly, about 90% of the dcs are clearly observable ragequits. And those gotta be punished.
on BOTH sides.
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They won't. I really feel the Devs hate Legion at this point.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882112#Comment_882112
Removing the stall potential and a variety of builds(decreases the fun by a MILE) for a slight ms buff? Wut?
Also, making 3 add-ons better and the power worse makes 2.5 problems:
- Makes the killer more add-ons dependant.
- Changes nothing to add-on less players like me 90% of the time.
0.5- Maintains the fact that most of their add-ons are useless/do almost nothing or actually harm you.
I'm not complaining about the buffs, i'm complaining about the unnecessary nerfs that were not needed.
I don't think that removing the on-hit effects is consistency because feral frenzy makes legion run faster and ADDS a status effect to their basic attacks. "But basic attacks can down someone and feral frenzy can't" -> another problem of the "rework" done in the patch 2.7.0.
The pig's dash completely changes things even tho it's power related because she crouches and has a charge time to make a dash that covers a gigantic amount of distance.
Legion just lunges. This would be justified if wraith also didn't apply on-hit effects when coming out of the power, spirit is the same, nurse is the same, tier 3 myers is the same ( "the attacks apply the exposed status effect so they are not basic attacks" -> bhvr logic with the legion changes), etc etc
Because they are "power based" just like legion ones are.
Also thank you for saying this far more calmly then I was able too.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882253#Comment_882253
I agree with that. But i saw peanits answer on a discussion to someone or a dev Q&A on the forums saying that they don't plan on buffing him.
Of course they can change that idea because it was a while ago. But still, it's a possibility.
He needs a buff, like all the lower Tier Killers you only see at low ranks.
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"Tweaked"
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@slipttees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882002#Comment_882002
Try facecamping!
No. I don't do that.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882214#Comment_882214
And thats exactly whats wrong with him;always knows where you are
That is an exaggeration.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882201#Comment_882201
I think if you remove the "Deep Wounds stacks eventually down someone" bit from the Mob Mentality idea and just make Feral Frenzy hits inflict action speed penalties, that gets rid of the part of the Legion that is most difficult to balance.
Yeah, that might be true too.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882206#Comment_882206
I like to play stealthy -_-
Well, I'm sorry? Doctor is there to remove stealth, and was in fact made during the worst era of Blendettes.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882185#Comment_882185
Less doctors => better game experience.
Why are you mad at code?
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@TAG said:
As far as the Mob Mentality idea, do you worry about the implications of:
1) Deep Wound applying stackable reductions to healing, making it potentially a fair bit harder to remove the Deep Wound?
2? The "4 Deep Wounds to down a Survivor" aspect creating a similar situation to original Legion where there is too much inevitability and not enough counterplay (FF, apply two stacks, FF, apply a third stack, FF, apply a fourth stack and down)?
Of the ideas I see listed, I think the Mob Mentality idea (with the variation suggested by @pemberley ) is my favorite.
This is part of why I think Deep Wounds should just be removed from Legion's power. It makes it all too hard to balance.
Though remember. Mending is somehow not "Healing."
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Side note for the people somehow still using the stats as a reason despite the devs telling you not too.
51% to 74% is still 2 kills and the less a Killer is played the easier it is to have a high kill rate.
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my main issue is it still buffs the Obsession for no reason
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Survivor: Wow... this is really boring... why do people say this is hard? Oh no, The Killer... better go run to this loop and do circles... yay... No Killer, Catch me please! End this torment! *after match* WHY AM I SO HIGH RANKED?!
Killer: Wow... that game was shorter than the queue times... Meta Perks with Prove Thyself and toolboxes on top. Fun times. Someone get me back to low ranks please. I don't want a 4k, I just wanna feel like I can do anything.
Game issue: Balance... AND FIX LEGION! (you know, Buff.... Rework... Remove Deep wounds and give them something worth a darn...)
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This has so much biased both ways that I am just going to stay outta this. Shame.
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needs something better than RNG, I agree
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882022#Comment_882022
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882065#Comment_882065
Don't be pedantic. I didn't say don't use his power, I said use it less.
If you look, that's what I was saying.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882044#Comment_882044
They just got a huge buff recently, BHVR even listened to your feedback by making the button add-ons better. 😁
Sorry for being a bit rough there. But it's in no way a buff to me and I get tired of people saying it is just cause some numbers went up.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882126#Comment_882126
Still funny how people think sarcasm can be recognized due to a text.
and thus, I will no longer reply.
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882013#Comment_882013
No, it's meant for map pressure not really for copy cat'ing Legion. You wouldn't be able to attack anyways while it's active.
That was alot of sarcasm that my text didn't add, it seems.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882044#Comment_882044
They just got a huge buff recently, BHVR even listened to your feedback by making the button add-ons better. 😁
Huge buff? Not even. Also, that wasn't just my feed back and MY feedback on the buttons was to apply it from the first hit, not everyone hit AFTER the first hit.
The "Huge Buff" was .2 m/s in FF and .2 seconds off Window Vaults. The biggest part of the "buff" was the Pallet Vault speed which I agree is nice. BUT it's not anywhere near good enough to make up for the faster mending speed and the nerf to the mending add-ons. That and making all the m2 attacks the same, thereby RIPPING perk synergy away from Legion makes them not even a stalling Killer any more. There Power is MORE OF A PUNISHMENT to use. So no, it's not a "huge Buff" at all. It's a nerf with maybe one good thing tacked on so they can claim to have "Fixed Legion" and never touch them again for another 2 years.
"It's something" Shouldn't be how you justify buffs. You wouldn't be happy with maggots to eat cause "At least it's something" unless you were starving to death. Legion needs a whole hell of alot more. They need a complete rework and a removal of Deep Wounds from there power wholesale. Have the rush down without that status making it insanely hard to balance. Give us something BETTER! Not a slightly faster but still useless Killer.
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Daily Reminder to FIX LEGION AND REWORK THEM SO THERE POWER ISN'T A PUNISHMENT! Also REMOVE DEEP WOUND FROM THE POWER AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING BETTER! Trust me it will be SO much easier to balance.
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@savevatznick said:
You make a simple mistake here - balancing around high level play means that you're operating under the assumption that people will strive to play better. Dead by Daylight occupies a twilight niche in-between competitive and party game such that it is hard to balance around either without losing population and thus $$$.
Balancing around the higher levels of play is a bad idea, because it would mean nerfing survivors as a whole (by assuming they're playing in a coordinated, play to win mindset) since they're quite strong then buffing/nerfing killers in comparison to that. This will kill the game because A. if more people want to win competitively, they'll want it to be in their own hands and not in a teammates, so they'll queue killer = huge queue times and B. Solo survivors (a lot of the community) not wanting to play in a game that's balanced around SWF. If solo survivor is buffed to be equal to SWF, most killers would quit by the time the devs buff killers to par, because they honestly work quite slowly and don't address the legitimate concerns of balance in the game - thus, if solo survivor was buffed to be on par to SWF, the amount of killer players at such a level would dwindle to the point of killing the game before they got the balance right.
Balancing the game around a party-game level is also a bad idea because we have a ranking system. Rank means nothing right now and will likely continue to mean nothing because the Killer rank system is flat out contradicts playing efficiently and the survivor rank system is Freelo which means being r1 survivor is a joke.
Not to mention this whining of "survivors have been nerfed from the beginning" which is a load of bull. I want to put a stake into the heart of this "survivors always nerfed" argument because a ton of the nerfs that they have had are clearly needed. The game used to have double-window or pallet tiles with guaranteed fast-vaults, and killers vaulted at a greatly decreased speed. Just look at the game years before and you'll see how absolutely awful it was to play killer vs survivors who knew how to loop. The survivor "nerfs" have been warranted as the average survivor realizes how much of a killers' time they can waste of they play semi-consciously.
The worst part is, based on these forums, a lot of people play this game as a party game with made-up rules like "let someone live for free"...etc. With a vocal part of the community playing this as some weird RP chatroom with no chat, or some strange party game, it'll never be balanced competitively at the expense of them. People are just plain bad.
you know.... you right.
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@Kenshin said:
legion is dead and may get some love in two years, pray for for him.
*cries in Legion main*
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https://youtu.be/D4-E4R0oHBY?t=2604What happened to Janick's Idea here? It was a good one. What happened to Janick for that matter? Didn't he make Legion? Did they fire him for that? O_o
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I really like these ideas! They wont do them though.
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@Kabu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881427#Comment_881427
As what @Spooky13 said "The removal of synergy with STBFL and Sloppy Butcher allows survivors to completely ignore being injured."
I understand this is being changed for the same reason it was changed for Pig. To make how these perks work universal.
Legion's synergy with these perks are what made Frenzy somewhat worth using. Now, there is even less of a reason to heal against Legion which destroys his power as that IS his power. That being injuring people. You could say that killer instinct is enough of a reason to use it but it's not. The 4 second stun makes using Frenzy to catch up to survivors negligible. Also, it's not hard finding survivors which also limits how useful killer instinct is.
Another upcoming change that hurts Frenzy is to mending times. They have been called a stalling killer but that part of them is being nerfed too. Including their mend add-ons. The increased speed coming with the next patch is nice and is one thing people have asked for but doesn't help much, if at all, to compensate for the above. With that in mind it's easy to come to the conclusion that they are being nerfed again.
I hardly ever saw Legion before so now there will likely be even less once people have finished trying out these new changes. Perhaps that is their goal? Make them so bad that nobody will as play them. If no one plays as them then no one complains about how unfun they are. Though that's not something that would be admitted to. We'll just get "we'll continue to monitor these new changes and adjust as needed."
Tldr: Get ready to move fAsT for a few seconds then eat a 4 second stun bois! Cause that's all we got...
Legion is the reason why someone should be worried as to how BHVR will handle any killer changes. It's been horrible...
Thank you. I will always play Legion and always complain about BHVR messing them up, so they will never be rid of it. They need a rework and a removal of Deep Wounds from there power.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881043#Comment_881043
I just want you to explain how did the changes to legion and nurse make them more fun playing as.
If you want me to be honest, I wouldn't say the change made him more fun to play as but more fun to play against.
You see, old Legion had a lot wrong with him, and survivors had no counterplay. Every chase against a Legion puts a survivor on a timer that they cannot control with their skill — they would eventually go down due to FF hits.
Who thinks facing an opponent that renders your skill useless is fun? I certainly don't.
However, BHVR needed a quick solution, and they had to sacrifice some of the killer's fun for make playing against more enjoyable. Admittedly, they should've taken more time to finish the job rather than leaving them like that for a while, but I will assume they were short on time and needed a temporary solution.
Now, with the current buffs on the PTB, he's fun to play as and against — that's BHVR's goal. Sure, it's not perfect, but they are a lot better than before. 😁🤗
Now, Nurse and this is great for me because I actually main her — I can give you a 100% unbiased opinion.
The cool-down on her blinks make landing her blinks feel more rewarding because you have to use them sparingly, you can't use them mindlessly and expect good results.
I can understand how waiting to use your blinks is really lame because you're just sitting there waiting for your blink to recharge. However, it would either be this or longer fatigue, according to the developers — adding a cool-down is definitely preferable for the majority.
Lastly, her add-ons are pretty unique and offer more fun combos to her — they are easier to use unlike before. Sure, some add-ons are terrible and need desperate changes, I'm not going to sugar coat it, but all in all, the positives definitely outweigh the negatives with Nurse. 🤗😁
so "Fun to play as" to you is having a completely useless power?
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@Spooky13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881021#Comment_881021
I agree with most of what is said here, Freddy and Ghostface both (rightfully) got majorly buffed, and people are mostly exaggerating Spirit's nerf. For Legion however, I wholeheartedly disagree that Legion was not/is not getting gutted.
To be fair, I agree that Legion had many problems that needed fixing, such as moonwalking and Frank's + SWS. However, I feel that they took it too far. They severely nerfed every aspect of Feral Frenzy for little compensation.
For a 5% increase in movement speed Legion lost/gained
- The ability to down in Feral Frenzy, making the power non lethal.
- A loss of speed in Feral Frenzy, now moving at 5.0m/s, down from 5.28m/s.
- The ability to see blood in Feral Frenzy.
- A 24 meter Terror Radius, now a 32 meter Terror Radius.
- Missing an attack with Feral Frenzy now cancels the power and depletes the power gauge.
- Overall cooldown of Feral Frenzy increased from 15 seconds to 20 seconds.
- Feral Frenzy can only be used when the meter is completely full.
- Stun time of ending Feral Frenzy increased to 4 seconds from 3 seconds.
- Vaulting in Feral Frenzy is now slower.
These changes completely gutted Legion. The purpose for Feral Frenzy changed from lethality to slow down, with Legion relying on perks like Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher, STBFL, and Dying Light. Now Legion is getting another update.
These changes include
- Increased Feral Frenzy's movement speed to 5.2m/s, compared to 5.0m/s.
- Vaulting in Feral Frenzy is now faster, taking only 0.9 seconds.
- Feral Frenzy is no longer a basic attack.
- Mending now takes 12 seconds solo, and 8 seconds when performed by another survivor.
While Legion gains back their movement speed from before in Feral Frenzy, the lack of ability to down in Feral Frenzy serves it no use. The big kicker for Legion here is the reduction to mending time and making Feral Frenzy hits count as basic attacks. This removes what was left of Legion's slowdown potential. The removal of synergy with STBFL and Sloppy Butcher allows survivors to completely ignore being injured, thereby removing the slowdown caused by survivors healing, which will therefore make Feral Frenzy completely ignorable, as there is no point in using it if all survivors are injured. This, combined with the fact that Legion still has to deal with a 4 second stun everytime they use Feral Frenzy is beginning to make Feral Frenzy more of a detriment than a helpful power, as using it during a chase will allow a survivor to most likely get to another pallet or window, thereby removing the possibility of it being a tool to end chases, making Feral Frenzy even more useless.
Overall, Legion is definitely getting an overall nerf. Feral Frenzy gives no real upsides aside from the 12 confirmed seconds a survivor won't be on a generator. It cannot be used to end chases, it cannot be used for any meaningful slowdown, it is just a mess. Legion seriously needs a complete rework at this point.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
THANK YOU! That is what i keep telling people and why I am so adamant about my Legion Rework thread.They need a rework and a removal of Deep Wounds from the power completely.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881021#Comment_881021
Applause 👏🏻
Glad somebody else also sees sense.
In addition to your post, not only do many in this community hone in on only the “bad”, they make mountains out of mole hills.
So many throw empty threats of leaving the game over the smallest of adjustments, and I can’t help but think “really?! Your whole strategy revolves around just this one tiny thing?! And you don’t have any confidence that it’s possible to win anymore?!?!”
are you honestly saying what they did to Legion was okay?
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/880994#Comment_880994
People exaggerate Legion, Nurse, and Spirit changes, then assume BHVR is going to gut any killer they say are going to rework or is over performing.
In reality, BHVR doesn't always gut killers, and when they do, gutting is exaggerating what exactly they did to that killer. Most changes BHVR made towards killers is for making things balanced and fun for everyone. They just buffed Legion and made Freddy a beast a while ago — Ghostface got a significant buff too. The community, not everyone, tends to only see the bad of BHVR more than the good because it's easier to look at someone's mistakes than look at their success.
I said too much, bracing for impact! 😕
Um, I have to disagree HIGHLY with the exaggerating part, at least for Legion. They are already used as a term for making something unfun and worthless to play "Legion'd" and then they nerf them more? That MS buff was not enough, even if the vault speed is sexy.
(You know how long i've played Legion. You know how I feel about the PTB changes even after using them.)
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once again.... Dev's please take note that your community uses "Legion'd" in this way AND FIX LEGION! Give them a rework and remove Deep Wounds from there power TO START WITH!
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's the way people play the doctor that makes him annoying as hell (the reason you see the DCs) and under powered (the reason people think he needs a buff).
Try using shock less and stick more, you will find you get less DCs and more kills.
So you are saying that, Like Legion, Doc shouldn't use his power much? Oh yeah, that doesn't scream "This needs fixing!" at alllll
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881825#Comment_881825
isn't it? People on the forum are all too busy asking for nerfing this and that, but forgot those low tier killers that stand in corner, hoping people still remember them
cough Like Legion Cough
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Oh good. Take New Shadow Born so any Killer can be Legion! (with less of a stun)
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@Seltas0208 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881807#Comment_881807
There there. They'll come soon. We just have to wait
Soon TM
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@slipttees said:
Why did Freddy have Oblivious status? Isn't it enough to teleport to generators, snares and fake pallets? Oblivious to freddy is just to encourage facecamping. Needs to be reviewed, In my opinion freddy without this status would be more balanced.
This status should only be for demogorgon as it is a skill after it teleports between portals.
Oblivious status broke Borrowed Time.
Cause you are in HIS WORLD. Just go wake up. It's not that hard.
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Pair this with Unrelenting and let the good times roll!
Also yes @FairP1ayer Legion needs more perk Synergy since this new patch will rip alot of what they had away. Buffs don't make up for that, even if the pallet Vault is Sexy. They need to remove Deep Wound from Legion's power as a start for a full rework.
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mannequin? That's right in the phobia for me!
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@CrowFoxy said:
Hey folks! Today I'm gonna be making a short post for discussion on top level play, DbDs skillcap, and the balancing ideas from this.
Top level play currently favors survivors, while low and mid favors killers. This can be fixed using trickle down balance, balancing around top players.
If say for example NOED or DS is balanced at top level play, it WILL be fair and balanced at other ranks. This applies to individual killer powers as well, such as spirit.
Dbd doesn't have a particularly high skill cieling/cap. Infact, it's pretty low compared to a lot of competitive games but it isn't non-existing. I genuinely believe it IS high enough to encourage the devs to please balance around the best players, not the middle.
When you balance around the middle, lower players are alienated and the top level players abuse it to all hell. (BT, Spirit)
What do you guys think, no feelings involved, about devs fully realizing the much suggested idea of top level balance?
I agree with you and you use good logic here. The devs prolly don't care about this, as "2 Kills and 2 Escapes" is there balance, which they are at mostly. Just too bad that 2 kills depips you at high ranks and Survivors have a ton of power at those ranks.
Overall good idea, but it will get ignored.
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The hope that Legion will be reworked into something really cool! (please let me hope ;-; )
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@BenZ0 said:
I usually am not against the Rift or Tome that much, they are just abit too bad rewarded but overall cool and nice for the game for my opinion. But This one challange where you have to hook 15 survivors in a basement or a second survivor while someone is with monstreous shrine already in the basement, obviously this challange is for basementcamp made, you dont really need insidious but I saw alot of leatherfaces with this for those challanges. You cant blame those killers that much because they are forced to play this for this challange, but I question myself why does the Devs support such unfun gameplay?
They are trying to make anti camping and tunneling perks and say it is a strategy even if its UNFUN and FRUSTRATING but they do challenges that REQUIERE this? I never saw something that hypocrite and controversal in my life xD
I did both as Trapper without Insid. Just bring Iron Grasp and Agi. They are not getting away.
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It's really really weird how people are still drawing conclusions from those stats when A) the SWF one is outdated and B ) The devs say don't draw conclusions from the stats.
But also, wow alot of you are being really rude to Killers for no real reason.
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*cries in Legion main waiting for useful and good buffs or a rework to Legion*
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Yeah, I hope Doc comes out the other side BETTER and not Legion'ed (BTW Devs, if you think Legion is "fine" just note that your community uses "Legion'ed" for when something gets nerfed into uselessness)