Tsulan
Tsulan
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1894105#Comment_1894105
Blights FoV is messed up but it doesn't mean he's weak, in the right hands he's literally competitively viable and thats saying ALOT, plus I've mained him since release and other than sliding on random stuff and the bad FoV he's really amazing.
Billy isn't trash since his nerf, what are you talking about? I can still curve with him and as long as I have one overheat addon I can do really well with him, sounds like a you problem if you think Billy's bad.
Oni isn't just Billy with extra steps, their powers work very differently and are used in different ways. If you put infectious on oni you can easily get 2 or 3 downs in a very short amount of time.
Never said that Blight is weak. I just said, that his FoV is busted.
Billy is just a shadow of his former self. I haven´t seen a SINGLE good Billy since his nerf. Not one.
If you put Infectious on Billy, it works just the same.
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Cool, rank 20 gameplay.
So inspiring!
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Sounds like the usual solo queue.
So i just play normal.
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
I play wraith and chase at jungle gyms and unmindgameable pallets, I get tbagged and called a trash killer. I play pyramid and never get tbagged but called boring for playing a op killer. Survivors only want to play follow the leader, anything other then that needs a nerf and counterplay (even though there's plenty).
So far all the survivors i´ve seen want a gen repair simulator. They ignore totems, even when not pressured and only focus gens.
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@FrostySeal said:
Wow dude! You categorized every survivor into one group! Not every survivor wants only weak killers in the game, those are just a vocal minority just like killers who want survivors to run in a straight line and not do generators.
Most survivors I've seen (me included) just want fair, fun, and balanced killers, like Blight, Hillbilly, and Oni.
LOL
Blight: busted FoV
Billy: trash since the nerf
Oni: Billy with extra steps.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1894063#Comment_1894063
Were gen rushes scary?
No, but its boring af. Yet, survivor mains seem to love it.
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@DBD78 said:
They are rare now and I like it 😀 Probably 10-15 games ago I would say.
I guess those numbers will only increase. Since it seems like even when a killer uses the offering, he´s not able to perform the mori.
Shame, so many recources wasted on a useless animation.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1892703#Comment_1892703
Would get boring if you faced it every game.
Like gen rushes?
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@BeHasU said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1894032#Comment_1894032
So i can use my pyramid head's fatality move on every killer
cool...
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Why bring moris anyway?
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@Olokun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1893958#Comment_1893958
Hi i doubt , Happened to me As Survivor and as Killer Too . Dedicaced Server all busy maybe ???
Only low rank killers have longer queues. Because there are simply no low rank survivors around.
Other than that, the servers work fine.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1893608#Comment_1893608
I would very much to be able to choose how my hooks look.
Even something as simple as choosing the design from the selection already in the game, it's way better than the charms.
In the last questionnaire they asked if we would like customizable lobbies.
I expected being able to choose the background and music from earlier releases and events. But now that I think about it, we'll probably just get charms in the sides.
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@SirCracken said:
Thinking about it now, was there anyone in the community at all that wanted charms? Why were they added? Why not give full hook customisation instead of putting these ugly little trinkets in 3 predetermined places?
I voted for customizable hooks but not... this.
Imagine being able to modify hooks to look like in the underground complex.
But instead we got charms...
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@Yords said:
In my opinion, NOED should be changed instead of nerfed.
Right now, the perk is being mostly used as a crutch for new players. I know this for a fact because I did the same when I first started playing killer. Why would I not have run it? It gave me a chance to get some kills at the end game and as a new player, this is an absolute win for me. I eventually stopped using it and moved on to BBQ and chili a long time ago.
Almo himself said something along the lines of it being balanced as a high-risk high reward perk. He also said that it is the survivor's fault for not cleansing the dull totems the whole match.
I disagree with this statement. I do not think that a survivor team should be punished for not cleansing totems that they probably couldn't spend time finding, especially because of solo queue. Most people are solo queueing when it comes to playing survivor, how are they supposed to coordinate that? If you have one person in solo queue look for totems all game, that is one useless survivor (pretty much) and they might not even know if anyone has cleansed totems yet so they have to assume that and probably waste a lot of time. In solo queue, your best time spent is time spent on generators and healing less than experienced survivors so that everyone including yourself has a better chance of escaping.
Also, why should survivors cleanse totems for the small chance of a killer having the perk? It has been months since I have had to deal with NOED at rank 1. So should I be punished for being a good survivor all game only to get instantly downed because I didn't cleanse the totems that most likely did not matter to cleanse in the first place?
Conclusion: NOED should be changed, to what? I don't know, you guys think of something.
I think that NOED should have a different end game effect on survivors that encourages them to leave for as long as the hex is active. Just something about it needs to be changed.
There are plenty of videos of "afk" killers with NOED.
Survivors have all the time to cleanse totems. Yet they prefer to do gens only. Even with no pressure and then die to NOED.
I think it's save to say, that survivors are to lazy to do totems.
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It's amazing! Almost as useless as Monstrous Shrine. Yet it got nerfed on release.
But at least they started with the perks being terrible on release instead of having good perks for a few months, only to nerf them so hard, that no one will use them ever again.
So that's a plus, I guess.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1891131#Comment_1891131
its really not...
they gave us bloodlust during that, along with window blocking, buffed killer vaulting speed, and fixed a few infinites.
They gave us bloodlust as a bandaid and then nerfed it.
I suspect the bloodlust free weekend experiment didn't go as expected. Or they would have removed it already.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1892031#Comment_1892031
Of course you don't - My point has consistently been that coordinating just allows you to waste substantially less time dealing with Undying. One person can just throw on Detective's and cleanse all the totems if the killer's occupied, but they're taking a ton of time to do it. SWF save that time by coordinating, hence why Undying was stronger against solos.
Yes, Tinkerer is great on Blight. The meta will almost certainly still be Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer. It's just not going to be as strong as it was before.
Very likely, but not necessarily. If most players are on death hook and the pallets are cleared out around the remaining gens, you at least have a chance. Quick down, kill one, pop the gen and pressure multiple survivors before they can finish... The point is that pop generally gets stronger as the game goes on; usually survivors do a lot of damage on gens early and then have to trickle the last few over the finish line. Pop is perfect for preventing them from making progress in that situation, and can certainly let you win games you have no business winning. Just think of the time saved with each pop and try to think of other perks that save that much time over the course of the match. Spoiler: there aren't many.
How is corrupt sacrificing endgame traps? You don't run out of traps. Regardless, the early game is by far the most important part of the game because it's generally the only time that four survivors are repairing at once. Usually Trapper and Hag are forced to start from behind because they can apply no pressure in the early game. CI solves that problem and keeps gens up while they do the setup necessary to apply pressure.
That is grossly oversimplifying things. Some people want to win more than anything else, while some people want to play with their friends more than anything else. You rightly mention time of day too; survivor queues are mostly terrible in the evenings because thats when SWFs are all free to queue up together. The fact that the queues actually do get worse for survivors in the evenings supports the fact that some people only want to play with their friends. I'm sure having to deal with 4v1 post-game chat toxicity disproportionately discourages killers. So should console and low-end PC framerate, which is extra poor on the killer side. Then there's the added stress and responsibility of the killer side, which isn't for everyone.
Think about it - If balance were all that mattered, very few people would play solo queue survivor and they would either join SWFs or play killer instead. As a result, three-man SWF would never be able to find matches because there'd be no solos to fill their lobbies, and solos would therefore queue very quickly. That's not happening, though, so clearly there's more at play than just balance. Queue times also would have been way, way worse for survivors a few years ago when survivors were even stronger, but that certainly wasn't my experience. Queues got worse for me when crossplay dropped, which makes me think that console performance and potentially console also being a more social gaming platform are both factors.
But survivors don't have to cleanse all totems. Ruin is so weak, you could ignore it and still finish all gens in 4 minutes. Killer can't chase 4 survivors at the same time. 2 or 3 will always have the possibility to hug gens.
Undying is gone. With the update you won't see it anymore. It's not going to be meta. Now it's just Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Was Haunted Grounds Ruin meta? No? Exactly!
I play solo queue all the time. Starting Saturday evening, the queues went back up with waiting times of 5+ minutes. This won't improve once the patch drops.
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@Mr_K said:
Watch speed runs of that game and tell me the players are scared.
Fear in games will never stick as the player will become numb to it after understanding what is going on.
Scratched mirror Myers on Lerys scares people.
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@Hex_UrbanEvasion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1892204#Comment_1892204
I heard about a SWF group that encountered Forever Freddy once. They're still doing gens to this day...
Spoooooky
Poor guys are living a true Nightmare.
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@Steah said:
"So after seeing that killers got a new meta perk get nerfed after only 4 months of use, we here at BHVR are going to be nerfing Freddy as well, your thoughts survivor mains?"
" Yeah nerf NOED"
Don´t worry. After gutting Freddy and removing the exposed status from NOED, our community will easily find another killer and perk that is "OP".
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@Hex_UrbanEvasion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1892164#Comment_1892164
I had my first match against a Forever Freddy earlier. That was the most agonizingly slow match I've ever had. I'd be 100% fine with them easing up his slowdown add-ons, especially since once he stacks them with the right perks, it basically takes you ten years to do a gen.
See? It´s that kind of exagerating, that gets killers nerfed.
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The event just ended. Lets see how it goes this weekend.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1891129#Comment_1891129
In a solo game, yes, that is often what has to happen. You can't coordinate hex cleanses, so the only options are to cleanse the totems you come across or to ignore the hex and just fight through it. It's not impossible to sync up with your team, but it requires luck for the others to have the same idea in mind. It's not a question of being a potato. It's pretty much just impossible to synchronize totem cleanses, which puts solo at a disadvantage with old Undying.
What will be meta on killers like Blight after this change, then? Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer should still be quite good on highly mobile killers to the point where I don't see another combo dethroning it. Undying/Devour is going to be filthy on killers that can defend totems too. Survivors only get cursed right as the fourth survivor is getting downed. That means they need to cleanse both hexes before one more person gets downed and unhooked, which is not easy unless they've already located both totems. That's going to lead to a lot of early moris. Even one Mori should be enough to win the game even if it gets cleansed right after.
Pop is absolutely not trash. Games with many hooks aren't necessarily games that the killer is dominating. It can also allow for comebacks in three-gen situations, even if it's still a 3v1 or 4v1. The opposite of what you said is actually true (i.e. if the killer is getting stomped Pop will not save them), but if they're able to get hooks (which you should in well-balanced matches) it should be very strong, especially on mobile killers like Freddy that can take good advantage of information from BBQ or Thrilling. If I always had to play a random killer, I could only choose one perk every match, and BP weren't a factor, I I would run Pop. The time wasting potential out of one perk slot is just insanely high.
Like I said, you can ignore Ruin, but that doesn't mean it's having no effect. It only has no effect if the killer is not defending gens.
CI is absolutely good for Trapper and Hag. If a survivor runs right into you early, which is often not the effect of CI, that's just fine for Hag and Trapper. They can just trap offensively if they choose to pursue that survivor, and meanwhile the other three survivors generally haven't been able to jump right on gens and are forced to waste time running around the map. Usually it lets you get a few traps down around the gens closest to you before survivors show up too, but limiting early gen progress at a time where gens usually fly is a good enough benefit.
Surge is commonly recommended on M1 killers by "no good" killers like Otz, and for good reason. You pair it with Pop, Surge the gens near you, and Pop gens being worked on far away from you. It also gives decent information about which gens near you are being worked on, which can also help direct your Pop if survivors are really trying to force a gen out. Oppression is good for similar reasons; you often get some tracking and some instant regression out of the skill check, which can help you land a useful Pop, and otherwise it can waste good amounts of time on other gens.
I've done the math before, and if I recall correctly running Thanatophobia and averaging two stacks throughout the match saves about 45 seconds of gen repair time, not counting any additional regression from the killer making it to gens before survivors can finish them. That's okay; like landing 2 1/4 pops. For killers like Legion and Plague, though, it can help hedge your bets a bit. If the survivors choose to heal against you, that's excellent for you because it wastes tons of their time and makes them more vulnerable to your power. If not, though, they could lose more like 60-70 seconds on gens over the course of the match, which is a very nice effect.
Care to address why you think queue times are related to balance?
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Preferentially going for survivors that were not just hooked is not the same thing as 12-hooking. That just means that instead of hooking survivors like A, A, A, B, B, B, C, C, C, D, (D, D) you might need to do something like this: A, B, A, B, A, B, C, D, (C, D, C, D). You really don't need to tunnel to win and there is absolutely no need to do A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D to avoid DS.
You don´t HAVE to coordinate. You take Detectives as solo and cleanse the totems the others ignore. Since you see them all.
Tinkerer is still good on Blight. This won´t change. Combine it with Trail of Torment and Dark Devotion for max confusion.
3 gen with 4 survivors alive WILL lead to them escaping. Even with PoP. Killer can´t dedicate to a chase even a short one, because the second he does try to get that down, the other 3 survivors will be sitting on the same gen. But lets say, the killer insta downs, hooks and goes to that gen the 3 survivors were working on. He still has to hurry, because 3 survivors complete a gen in 30 seconds. So the 25% regression is kinda meh.
Corrupt: you sacrifice endgame traps (which you need) to get some early chases (which you don´t need). Bad trade.
Queue times represent balance very easily. People like to win. So unless a new killer is released or a event requires people to play a certain role, people WILL play the more powerful role. Instant survivor queues? Killer OP. Instant killer queues? Survivor OP.
Of course, there is a additional point of the time of the day. Less people play during office hours. So those queue times vary drastically from prime time queue times. When everyone has time to play.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887131#Comment_1887131
i mean it was for balance but... they pretty much nerfed chase mechanics so hard killers actually stood a slightly better chance.
They also nerfed Bloodlust during that period. So... on that point it´s more like a draw.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1889191#Comment_1889191
Undying/Ruin's issue was its strength in addition to the massive time savings you get by coordinating to remove it. This just hurts solo queue. if you have a map and Detective's and want to do it yourself, that's like 70 seconds of cleansing + a minute or two of running around the map + a perk slot + an item + aura reading whenever you go near a totem that can draw the killer and gift them pressure + all of the regression you get from Ruin while it's still up. That's a massive benefit from two perk slots, and would be much smaller against SWF.
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DS is absolutely not as strong as it was. Still being meta =/= being just as strong. If you disagree, why are you torn up about Undying? It's still going to be meta on many killers.
We'll Make It + Self Care was [disgusting]. Please watch that and tell me if you still think they received a large and appropriate nerf.
We'll Make It is not meta because healing is not meta. You're usually better off not taking the time and just rushing gens instead with exhaustion perks and second chance perks.
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Absolutely not. Pop is one of the strongest perks in the game and can easily waste a couple minutes of time over the course of the match from a single perk slot.
Ruin can be ignored, but not without substantial regression unless the killer is not pressuring gens. When you ignore Ruin you're just betting that that regression will be less than the time it takes to cleanse the Ruin.
CI is extremely strong and meta on Trapper and Hag. Survivors can either push and waste time trying to find gens, decrease efficiency and increase the risk of multiple survivors getting pressured by stacking on gens, etc. or they can hide and not get any gens done while Trapper and Hag set up the map with traps.
Lullaby and Overcharge are niche and weak, agreed.
Oppression and Surge are both very good.
Thanatophobia is okay. It's pretty much only worth considering on Legion or Plague.
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I don't think the queue times are related to balance. The game is more balanced now than it has ever been imo. There are plenty of killers and survivors that are more inclined to blame the devs for losses instead of themselves - I see hordes of them on the forum - but they will continue do this regardless of game balance, so I see no reason for a mass exodus. I play on PC and had decent queue times as survivor, even in the evenings, until crossplay hit. That says to me that console is likely the bigger factor. Either it's just a more social platform, meaning more SWF, or the terrible performance while playing killer makes it a really bad experience. I expect it's a combination of the two. Poor balance would be expected to hurt queue times, but there's no good evidence that balance is especially poor at the moment. On the contrary.
You write like its a 1vs1. Like 1 survivor would have to find an cleanse all totems. Theres 4 survivors. Is it to much to ask everyone to cleanse 1 totem? The last one can be easily found with Detectives. So no, solo is only in a disadvantage if everyone plays like a potatoe and does nothing.
Undying will be long forgotten, when DS is still meta. Mark my words. Undying will be completely obsolete once the patch hits live servers.
I agree on the We´ll make it not being meta, because survivors are not pressured to feel the need to heal (others). Just because they have so many second chance perks and can easily focus on gens. Even while injured.
PoP is trash. If a killer gets minutes out of it, then he wouldn´t have needed it anyway. Because the killer is already dominating.
Ruin can and will be ignored. Just like healing, survivors won´t bother searching for it and simply power through.
Curruption is actually bad for Trapper and Hag. A steamer tested it, how many traps he could set up with and without and surprisingly, with it, he set up less traps, because he ran earlier into survivors.
Oppression and Surge are trash. No good killer uses them.
Oh i forgot about Thana. Since it´s effect is so neglectable, it wouldn´t matter even as Legion. Especially since it´s nerf.
Queue times have increased significantly for survivors and i doubt it will get any better with the upcoming patch.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888875#Comment_1888875
You should generally preferentially target survivors you haven't hooked yet. If you must target a survivor that was recently unhooked, you slug. Even if you slug them right after the unhook and they have UB, meaning they can use either DS or UB until they're recovered, you're still keeping that survivor out of the game for what, ~20 seconds, while you can apply pressure elsewhere? Similar story for WGLF. They can get healed quickly, but they still have two survivors occupied during the heal, plus running time to/from gens. Meanwhile, if you eat the DS that's 8 seconds wasted from the pickup animation and the stun, a free instant health state for the survivor, and you have one fewer survivor incapacitated. That's worse across the board than just slugging them.
A killer who tries to get a 12 hook by ignoring previously hooked survivors will lose the match and gets maybe 1 kill.
At least on red ranks. Not that it matters anymore, since they remove ranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888950#Comment_1888950
I obviously don't have stats on this, but I think it needed a nerf because Undying/Ruin/Tinkerer was not only very strong, but it was disproportionally strong against solo queue players. Undying doesn't apply the Cursed status effect, so solo survivors in particular have very little information to go off. I think this is a bad thing, especially for perk as commonly used as Undying; the devs should always be trying to close the gap between solo and SWF, not drive another wedge between them.
Let's imagine a teammate gets chased off a dull totem right at the start of the match, for example, and knows Undying is in play. With SWF, they announce this to their teammates and they can then all keep an eye out for hexes. Once they find two, they can cleanse both and guarantee that Undying gets removed. 50% of the time they have one more hex to cleanse to get rid of Ruin, and 50% of the time they're done already. In the meantime, they can also rotate to finish up gens that were regressing from Ruin to limit its the effectiveness. They can even coordinate if they want to all rush gens or if they want to go totem hunting, which is important, since neither approach is really as effective if you just have some survivors doing it, assuming no Detective's + Map and such. This is still a good effect for the killer, because at the very least it wastes a lot of survivor time, but it's certainly also counterable.
if we consider the same example with solo queue, though, that one person who got chased off the totem knows about Undying but can't tell anyone. If they want to try to cleanse all of the totems themselves, it wastes a massive amount of time they could have been spending on gens and it's very risky for them due to the aura reading. Especially on maps with good totem spawns, they could easily spend a few minutes running around the map searching. Cleansing hexes as you find them also tends to push the Ruin to better-hidden totems, and is therefore a much worse approach than finding two hexes before cleansing one, as SWF can more easily do.
The new Undying solves this problem because you don't need as much teamwork to counter Undying. Now there's no downside to cleansing them one at a time because you always only need the two cleanses and cleansing one hex at a time no longer tends to move Ruin to the best hidden totems on the map. "If it glows it goes" is once again viable in solo queue. The fact that it didn't keep tokens before also made it pretty weak with Token-based hex perks, so it pretty much only got use with Ruin. That's not great for gameplay variety, so I think the buff to have token-based hexes keep their tokens was a really good change.
The only thing I would have done differently is keeping the original aura reading in exchange for giving survivors the cursed status effect when they first touch a totem.
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DS got nerfed three times, as we've established, and Sprint Burst and Dead Hard were both heavily nerfed when Exhaustion stopped recovering while sprinting and stopped recovering faster while crouching. Before you could just throw on Vigil and get multiple exhaustion perk procs in the same chase.
In the early days of the game there was also a Self Care / We'll Make It meta because those perks used to stack. These perks no longer stack and healing in general was slowed, so that combo is now dead.
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"Whenever there was a great killer perk combo it was swifty removed" - this just straight up isn't true. Not wanting gen slowdown perks to stack is also entirely fair because it makes for terrible matches and the perks are harder to balance; If you could pop regressing gens, for example, you can bet that Ruin or Pop would have to be weaker to maintain balance.
You can complain until you're blue in the face about "they nerfed Enduring so now Enduring/Spirit Fury is a little bit worse" or "they reduced Pop's timer so now Pop/BBQ is a bit worse", but the fact remains that those combos are still extremely strong and these metas were initially introduced well after the last survivor meta perk was added. Many of these perks were never nerfed either and were even buffed. Survivors don't have a single new-Tinkerer-esque buff to point to since Dead Hard came out.
I don't know how people look at that and say "devs don't listen to killers" or "devs just keep nerfing killer". I have been generally very happy with the devs balance decisions to both sides and I feel the game is more balanced now than it ever has been.
Undying Ruin was only strong against lazy survivors that wouldn´t cleanse a totem, even if their life depended on it.
As you mentioned, there are plenty of counters like Maps or Detectives. For example, i changed 1 perk of my loadout and usually end up cleansing 4 or 5 totems per match while playing solo. Not much coordination needed, since totem spawns are painfully obvious. Like out in the middle of nowhere. Or next to a gen.
The new Undying is basically a Haunted Grounds without the exposed status. Which is... really kinda meh.
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DS got "nerfed" 3 times. Correct, but it is as strong as it always was. It is still meta (like SB and DH) and there is no way around it.
We´ll make it is still the most powerful healing perk and the only reason it´s not meta is, because people don´t like to sacrifice one of the other perk slots to heal others faster. When healing yourself is so much more efficient. 2 survivors healing each other take the same amount of time as 2 survivors healing themselves with SC. So instead of wasting time by finding the others, survivors just use SC.
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Each and every single gen slowdown perk is weak af. None of them would make a difference when playing against skilled survivors.
- Ruin: can be ignored. No effect while repairing a gen. Killer can only chase 1 survivor, means the others can hug the gen. If the killer breaks the chase, the previously chased survivor will go back to the gen.
- PoP: killer wastes more time going to a gen, then what the perk achieves in regression. 20 Seconds, when a single survivor works on it. 11 Seconds when 2 work on it. Also, having to hook someone in order to activate it. A killer who is able to use it often, wouldn´t need it anyway. Because he already is keeping those survivors busy. A killer who isn´t able to get many hooks, will see no benefit from it. When it actually should be a help.
- Overcharge: only good on the doctor.
- Lullaby: requirements to high
- Corrupt: just displaces which gens get done first + its more probably that survivors cleanse totems.
I´m not happy with the devs decisions and judging by the amount of threads where people complain about long survivor queues, i´m probably not the only one.
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Killer Bots.
Survivor queues keep increasing, because more and more killers leave. So the only logic step would be to introduce Bots.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888894#Comment_1888894
Undying needed to be changed and the devs are rightly getting right on that. And, as we've been through already, DS has already been nerfed three times. The devs said on a recent dev stream as well that they continue to hear the feedback about DS and are discussing ways to improve it. It has not been ignored. Plus, they have a history of slow changes to plenty of strong perks from both sides. Old Ruin was live for more than two years, for example, and they even buffed the Tier 1 and Tier 2 versions in the middle before they finally nerfed it.
Undying should still be meta on some killers even after the change. Killers have actually had several meta perks (BBQ, Pop, etc.) added to the game since the last survivor meta perk was added (Dead Hard, July 2017). Mettle of Man was poised to be a new survivor meta perk at one point, but it got nerfed into meme-tier oblivion before it was even released. That's worth remembering if you feel they're just ignoring balance changes on the survivor side. Undying not only had a few months in the sun, but it's still going to be strong even after the nerf.
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Again, I do think DS needs a nerf. I just think it's important to realize that the devs don't ignore killer feedback either.
And why exactly did Undying require a nerf? It didn´t see more action than DS.
Yeah, the survivor meta hasn´t changed in 3 years. Not by a single perk. The 5 most used perks of 2017 are still the 5 most used perks in 2021.
The ONLY time a good survivor perk was really nerfed, was Mettle of Man. Other than that, survivor perks always got a nerfbuff. Nerfing some parts and greatly buffing other parts.
This is a previledge, only survivor perks have.
Whenever there was a great killer perk(combo) it was swiftly removed. Devs even said on a stream, that they don´t want gen slowdown perks to synergize.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888826#Comment_1888826
You could not make a lot of distance while dribbling, though, so the survivor needed to be really close to the hook anyway to do that. It also wasted a massive amount of time for the killer over the match if they wanted to commit to it.
Before, running Enduring to counter DS stuns might have been smart because you basically were going to eat them regardless. Now, you don't need Enduring and you still eat fewer DS stuns.
Not every balance change is made because "survivors complained", and phrasing it that way just minimizes player feedback by portraying it as something unreasonable. Are we also phrasing DS's nerfs as "the devs nerfed DS because killers complained, then killers complained again and so they nerfed DS again, and then killers complained a third time so they nerfed DS a third time"? Of course not, and we also shouldn't.
Having to dribble a survivor to the hook was no fun for either side and was a hilariously dumb thing to have to do just to avoid a perk that you didn't even know for sure was in play. Of course they were going to discourage dribbling and also nerf the perk.
Good point. Yeah the player feedback clearly mattered, when it was regarding Undying Ruin. Which was swiftly adressed. Unlike Unbreakable DS.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888826#Comment_1888826
Dribbling was not a consistent counter. One body block, or poor hook placement (and hook placement was much less consistent back then) and you got DSed anyway.
At least you can actually play around DS most of the time now and you don’t just straight up lose your first hook. I think you’re either new or forgetting how horribly unfair and busted old DS was if you think it’s worse now. It was absolutely worse before.
How do you play around it? Unbreakable and WGLF exist.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888279#Comment_1888279
I don't see how you came to that conclusion.
The original version of DS had no wiggle bar requirement, no obsession requirement, and a five-second stun.
Nerf #1 was reducing the stun to four seconds.
Nerf #2 was adding the obsession mechanic, which gives the killer info about when DS might be in play, and which game with a wiggle percentage requirement for non-obsessions. This added an obvious counter for non-obsessions; just beeline for the nearest hook. In matches without an obsession, too, the killer knows that DS isn't in play and doesn't need to respect it.
Nerf #3 was the 60-second timer in exchange for pushing the stun back to five seconds. It is still abusable imo, but it can largely be avoided by not tunneling. Slugging is also a good counter, even if they have UB, due to the 60-second timer.
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The original and nerf #1 iterations of DS were only counterable by 1) juggling the survivor if you downed them very near to the hook and 2) by spinning in circles to try to make them miss the skill check (although this didn't work much against decent players). In practice 1) was basically the only option, and survivors could easily avoid it by just keeping an eye on hook placement when they were in trouble. Nerf #2 added counters based around the obsession mechanic as well. Nerf #3 added slugging as a counter, and made it also largely avoidable by just not repeatedly chasing the same survivor.
It is easier to deal with now than it ever has been. Does it need a nerf? Yes imo, but let's keep things in context.
I came to the conclusion, because killers used to be able to dribble survivors to the hook.
Killers could drop the survivor up to 5 times before he broke free. Survivors complained, and it was reduced to 3 times.
Killers could use Enduring to reduce the stun duration. Survivors complained, and they increased the stun duration. But since that wasn´t enough, shortly later, they removed the reduced stun of Enduring for DS hits.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Knowing the devs (and knowing they have a team for the surveys) they probably read them just for a few laughs and then go about their "we don't care what the community wants" shtick that they got.
No, no. They´ll read it. Especially the money spending part.
Then next month, they´ll come with a "we heard you!" and introduce us to new ways to spend our cells.
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@Yords said:
You could probably fill out the 12-minute survey while you wait for a survivor queue.
Thats what i did. I wish there were more surveys.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888422#Comment_1888422
while also buffing it from a 3 second stun to a 5 second stun.
Ah yes, first they increased the time of the stun, then they removed the stun completely.
Funny how the dropping survivors and increased stun time haven´t been reversed since then.
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@Marigoria said:
To be fair I see way more killers complaining than survivors lately.
@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888318#Comment_1888318
With lately, you mean the last 5 years?
@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888320#Comment_1888320
This board has always been more killer-centric and dominated by killer discussion, that's all.
Page 1 of the forum:
- nerf Deathslinger
- nerf tinkerer
- DS is not OP
- Doctor OP
- DS is fine
- toxic because killer bad
- don´t feel sorry for killers
Yeah... totally only killers complaining.
/S
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@valvarez4 said:
Tell the killer the gen at witch you are working 24 secs. before you finish it it's totally overpowered. When 4 survs are alive you can barely counter it, but when there are only 2 survs left it's a death penalty.
Imagine a perk for survs that show the aura of the killer if he moves in the direction of the surv 24 secs before he arrives, and also remove sounds from the surv. This is tinkerer.
I got a nice jump scare from a tinkerer Bubba.
Once you expect it, it all boils down to how much attention you pay to your surroundings.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888279#Comment_1888279
nah. the first iteration had zero counters. the second variation, you could hook 3 survivors without much threat, but the obsession was instant ds. and now everyone is immune from the killer for 60 seconds while free to do gens each time they are hooked.
Remember when killers could dribble survivors to the hook?
First they nerfed how often a killer can drop a survivor, then they removed it completely.
Same goes for Enduring. First it could reduce the time of the stun, then they removed it completely.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886790#Comment_1886790
it got nerfed and then buffed actually..
And each time it was stronger than before. With less counters.
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@TrevorLahey93 said:
I blame survivors mostly. They bully any killer just trying to learn the new killer. That combined with the fact the twins are pretty weak and glitchy
Tried them a few times. Every time i got bullied hard. Soooo not testing them any time soon again.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887416#Comment_1887416
Look at what you just posted.
They aren't considered nerfs to you just as I said.
Do you really consider those things nerfs?
Imagine Undying getting the same treatment as DS or BT. You cleanse it and 6 new totems spawn...
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887423#Comment_1887423
that's why i salid lmao (cuz i hate legion)
2020 was more like survivors and killer nerfs and 2021 isn't done yet...
Well 2021 isn´t starting good for killers
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887131#Comment_1887131
2.0.0 patch: Exhaustion nerf, pallet vacuum nerf, pallets nerf, exhaustion perks nerfed
2.3.0: moon bouquet removed (that's a nerf)
2.4.0: lockers nerf, and legion got introduced, lmao.
do u want me to continue?
The introduction of Legion was a survivor nerf? Then the nerf of Legion must be a survivor buff. Right?
Anyway, when 2018/2019 were survivor nerf years, then 2020/2021 are killer nerf years.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1887131#Comment_1887131
Exhaustion added
Double Pallets removed
Suction Pallets removed
Pallet spawn decreased
Self Care
Borrowed Time
I'm sure you don't consider these nerfs though because I doubt they fit your narrative.
Exhaustion perks are still among the strongest perks. So that nerf wasn't exactly hard.
Double pallets were removed. Correct
Pallets require now a minimum of skill, instead of being absolute save zones.
What happened to SC? Do you mean the general healing nerf? Strange how it's still meta, don't you think?
BT was buffed. Not nerfed. Before it could be used only once, but protected the unhooking survivor. Now it only protects the unhooked survivor, but can be used 6 times.
What narrative?
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886973#Comment_1886973
Oh yes I am, cause anyone who plays DBD since 2016 or even 2017 knows 2018/2019 was survivor nerfs year, you can check that in patch notes.
Could you name some of those hard nerfs, survivors received in that period, please?
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886775#Comment_1886775
It seems to be you need some DBD history classes.
Really? Are you absolutely sure about that?
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Emblems are fundamentally flawed. They punish players for playing their role efficient.
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May i suggest playing survivor? Its far more relaxing, rewarding and overall easier.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886682#Comment_1886682
2018 and 2019 was basically the survivor nerf year, wdym
You wrote killer wrong, but sure.
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@AetherBytes said:
At first I thought I was still in the ptb, even bought the twins because of it, and then I realized I'm actually on live, and I actually did buy the twins.
Can we get an F in chat?
Sure!
F
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886654#Comment_1886654
Nothing, I even like when people complain about DS, they're basically wasting their energy and look like clowns, lol. they're complaining about DS since 2019 and they have accomplished nothing, lmaooo that's hillarious
Its not amazing. Its actually sad how little gets done in regard of killer complaints.