Trwth
Trwth
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- Trwth
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Sorry, one more thing: Victor's animations are screwed up in the lobby during their idle animation.
And another one I've experienced as Survivor, unsure of its cause: Victor occasionally gets stuck in his falling animation, though he can still move around and attack as normal, but won't revert until he's crushed.
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@LordRegal said:
Legion lost his frenzy movespeed.
Power Struggle has so many "well it may not work if you do X" bugs it may as well not exist.
First time I used Power Struggle, me and the Killer got stuck in the pallet. It was cartoonish as heck.
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I've been robbed of kills due to numerous bugs with Victor. In my previous game, (it was on Pale Rose) I had a clean shot at some healing Survivors at the exit gate. However, I was at the bottom of the hill, so when I lunged, I didn't make it. So instead of scaring them out and preserving my one kill, Victor landed right in front of them like a kick ball.
Two more of my games, I was without Victor for a whole 45 seconds because he gets stuck in the ground when I unbind him.
One more bug that I noticed: it's really minor, but when you use the Cat Figurine add-on, you can see the target locator all the way in the corner of the map at all times. It's likely supposed to be invisible, because I was confused. It made me think there was an Object user in my game.
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An in-game communication system similar to likes of Identity V. Also add the ability to see your teammates’ perks before the match starts. Both of these would make the game feel less like I’m playing with AI.
...but I still want bots for DCing teammates.
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@OG_JuicyJuice1100 said:
I do like the suggestion you put for moris. With that Moris will no longer reward people for taking people out of the game instantly. Cause honestly, it sucks to be the survivor that gets tunneled to get moried.
As for the keys, I do like how you're trying to get better use out of the key add-ons and add a whole new element with keys and hatch. But I also feel like that would be very complicated to work into the game.
I think a simpler solution for keys would be, make the key an item that you can only find in a chest. No longer can you bring keys into a match. If a survivor wants to use plunder to raise their chances of getting a key that fine; they have to use a perk to do so. If you leave with a key you get extra bloodpoints instead of keeping the items.
‘ppreciate the feedback. But this is an outdated post. The Mori idea I still stand by, but for keys I have a different, simpler idea. The key still has to go through a hatch unlocking animation which takes a few seconds, but you can only actually use the key when your teammates are standing next to you. This way, you can’t be selfish with the key anymore, nor can you jump into the hatch in front of the Killer’s face.
I also have a different, more modern endgame concept to replace the current 1v1 situation if you’d like to read it.
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I just think some people abuse Bloodlust because it can single-handedly win you chases given you don’t break pallets or use your power. It’s not a huge problem, but the fact that it can do something like that makes it troublesome, especially on the newer maps where loops are shorter.
In my opinion, they should rework Bloodlust. Maybe make it increase speed only at level 1, increase your lunge reach at level 2, and increase vaulting speed at level 3. Or something like that.
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When I see a tall man with bloody overalls and a potato sack on his head, armed with a mallet, I imagine a hulking, threatening Killer... not a sprinter. Their power is literally Nurse except you can't go through walls. I find the traps more interesting, albeit complicated and difficult to imagine in an actual trial when factoring in trap selection and setting time.
As for the perks...
"Defenseless" is made to take away Survivors' resources. On a conceptual standpoint, I can dig it. However, this isn't the way to do it. You can block pallets, but Hex: Blood Favor already does that. No only that, but creating a perk that targets a specific perk (in this case, Head On) is not how perks work. Not anymore at least.
"Blood Mechanic" is very, very confusing to read. But from the looks of it, you kick a generator and you can see its repair progress for a short duration, as well as granting you BP like BBQ&C. But it also... causes regression? Here's where I start to misunderstand, but this perk sounds like a strange amalgamation of Surveillance, PGTW, and BBQ&C. You already know what I'm gonna say about that.
"Pain Enforcer" is an extremely flawed bootleg of Third Seal and Sloppy Butcher, but works like Fire Up. It... doesn't really make sense to me for a hex. It only lasts until you heal, which isn't a problem since even if it inflicts Mangled you'll still be able to heal just fine. Exhaustion isn't that big of a deal either and there's better alternatives such as Mindbreaker or Blood Echo, and especially isn't worth losing FOUR whole gens for. And on top of it all, it's a hex. It can be cleansed at any time and all of these effects are immediately nullified. If anything, you'd be better pairing this with Retribution for the aura read instead of Undying.
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I just think Pig's add-ons need fixing and her traps need to be more threatening (and remove the RNG aspect).
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I don’t have a problem with the voice, but the voice actress should redo it with a little more passion, because tbh Elodie’s screams don’t sound that real.
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I think you miss the point of For The People. It’s supposed to be situational. Making it usable on demand will just make it utterly broken.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1732057#Comment_1732057
When changing Feral Frenzy you need to be very careful, it can become uncounterable and oppressive or not useful at all.
You would probably need to rework Legion, in order to make them balanced.
Believe me, I know. I’ve tried twice and failed both times. I genuinely think if BHVR plans on reworking Legion, they should either use repeated experiments via PTBs or completely change their power.
People seem to like the idea of “locker teleport.”
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You're mistaken. It needs BIG changes to make it better. That includes exit gates and keys too. All of that needs to be changed without question. We just need to answer how.
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I actually really like these changes! However, I still have one huge concern: beating Legion in chase.
There's two parts to this issue:
- Legion can still deny any effort to thwart him in a chase. He can just pop Frenzy whenever he wants and there's practically nothing the Survivor can do about it except to take the hit or try to spin them out. If you take the hit, the Legion will just run away while you mend, ending the chase. If you make them miss, twenty seconds later they'll just hit you anyway. There's no chasing interaction and the fear of getting hit is just absent.
- Legion has no chasing ability against injured Survivors. All they have is their wits and basic attacks. Against good Survivors (who typically run Dead Hard or the vault speed built), catching them can be a nightmare. The Legion may just resort to keeping everyone injured and both sides hit a stalemate where neither contender wills to commit to their objectives.
It's the Legion's almighty paradox. Something that needs to be addressed. However, as of writing this reply, I realize that these are just QoL changes. But if you ever come up with a fully-fleshed rework, this is something to consider.
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While I agree that Freddy is a bit too strong, but he's not overpowered by any means. I think he could be simplified, because his power is utterly STACKED with so much unnecessary quirks.
However, your complaints about perks isn't a Freddy-specific. Freddy just benefits from those perks more than other Killers do because, well, he has built-in map pressure in the form of Dream Projection. I can't really come up with a good argument to combat Killer perks if you don't have all of the Survivor perks at your disposal, meaning that's another issue that's more of your own than a nerf to the Killer. You shouldn't have to pay to get good perks. Period.
But in some random case that you find it on the shrine, I'd HIGHLY recommend Repressed Alliance. Counters Pop, Ruin, and Tinkerer simultaneously when used correctly, ON TOP OF giving your teammates valuable information. Give it a try in a KYF if you get a chance.
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They just need consistent placements that give Killers a balanced choice. Old maps aren’t designed with breakable walls in mind so they kinda don’t do that. The saloon does it quite well though and I think they should look there for inspiration dare they revisit the old maps design-wise instead of graphically.
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People really sleep on a majority of the perks in this game and stick to the meta. That’s why it frustrates me so much when people pick up perks like Any Means Necessary almost an entire YEAR after it was released and squeal about how good it is.
I have a different build on every Survivor, and I plan on doing the same for Killer in the future. Each of them have different playstyles and roles on the team. Sometimes they work wonders, sometimes I simply don’t get the chance. It’s just part of the game.
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Bump
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Bump
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I think it’s just fine. Alternatively, they could’ve gave it a cooldown, which would’ve worked just about the same.
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I hope they add back David's outfit from the second rift. I only have the shirt and pants, and I need that hat in order to complete the set or else it just looks wrong...
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The Discordance change is barely noticeable. Pop is literally not that big of a deal since you use it right away in most cases. And Thanatophobia got the value buff everyone’s been asking for for a price.
For goodness sake, it’s not the end of the world.
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Dark Devotion.
I always assume it’s Tinkerer, but in some cases it was actually Dark Devotion.
Survivors running Better Together always puts a smile on my face. Even though they always run Prove Thyself and don’t accept healing...
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A minigame.
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No Mither shouldn't be challenge mode. It should have its own rightful effect just like all other perks.
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There are a lot of perks in this game that an atrocious amount of people sleep on. Those four are just the tip of the iceberg.
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Any Means Necessary is extremely underrated. Repressed Alliance is super helpful as well. I don't think I've ever seen anybody besides myself (in Solos) use either of these perks. I unironically run them together on Jeff for my utility aura build.
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The "what" has been answered.
The "how" is the complicated part. Perk changes aren't easy. Simple number changes never fully solve the problem, so they'll have to come up with a similar idea without making it abuseable while also letting it synergize with existing perks. Because, in all honesty, I would never use Object because it only really creates synergy with Open-Handed and Sole Survivor.
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@Zeus said:
Holy hell the size. TL:DR please.
I skimmed through it and I'm pretty sure this is directed at the dev team since, after all, it is feedback from the Korean DbD community.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
The concept art for "a snow lodge map" already looked more like this. Then they released the pile of dookie that is currently Ormond, and I realized that they just couldn't manage to do it.
Looking at what they’ve done to MacMillan Estate makes me hopeful that they’ll do it right when the rework comes around.
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Music and sounds make all the difference in atmosphere. When they started giving new Killers chase music, I began liking this game so, so much more.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684816#Comment_1684816
Don't feel bad. Legion's power is one of the hardest to balance. He's essentially gets the ability to ignore every defense a survivor has like Nurse, but is much easier to play. it's hard to balance an ability like that.
Yeah, I’m just disappointed and a little frustrated for that exact reason. Cool concept; hard to balance.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684479#Comment_1684479
You're missing the point. Your keeping Legion's flaws but also adding new ones, in this case, a terrible early game. Not to mention, the moment anyone knows you're a Legion, they will split up—that's the counterplay to Legion and why getting a good early game is important.
You have an idea but you're missing the fundamental problems. It's a power meant to punish survivors for grouping up... but you have to earn it, giving them plenty of time to spit up. Not to mention, the punishment is just holding M1 for 12 seconds.
Again, let us compare to Oni. People split up against Oni too (to avoid Infectious) but the thing is, Oni's Wrath mode give him the ability to straight-up insta-down on TOP of being really fast with Demon Dash AND almost lasting a minute. It's doable to hook someone, see more on BBQ, go into Blood Fury, then Dash over there and snow ball.
Legion can't do this, despite having a similarly bad early game with this purposed changed. He's having the same problems, with more Legion-specific problems as well, and for far less reward.
I know you've put a lot of effort into this. I'm sorry, but just will not work. Unless you change Legion completely, there is no way this will work, and if you do so, you might as well think of a new killer entirely.
I guess it's back to the drawing board again. Everyone seems to agree that this isn't on the right track so I'm gonna stop acting like there's a silver lining.
Gosh darnit Legion why do you have to be so damn complicated?Thanks for the feedback nevertheless.
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That pretty much enforces a meta for both sides, since without those specific perks you’ll be at a significant disadvantage. Instead of nerfing/buffing things, add onto what the game already has and address the reasons why people run the perks in the first place.
Survivors run DS because they don’t want to be tunneled. So, we should come up with base-game methods of discouraging tunneling and punishing Survivors less when they’re tunneled, without making it abusable.
Killers run Ruin because they don’t want to be stressed about gen speeds. They run Undying with Ruin because hexes are weak without protection and good RNG. We should create new objectives and incentives for Survivors to do something other than gens. And hexes shouldn’t be able to be broken as soon as the match starts and their spawn area shouldn’t be dictated by RNG.
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Playing as Survivor. Realizing the Killer has Iron Maiden. Then proceeding to jump in and out of a locker just to hear my Survivor scream over and over again.
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That looks really cool!
But you have to buy the bundle? That's crazy. Because if it was standalone then I would definitely get it.
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Survivors don't need extra time to face Spirit. They need information. You have no idea where she is most of the time with the exception of her footsteps and grass moving. If Survivors saw an afterimage of her and saw her while she was phasing, then it would be better. It's also cooler-looking.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Now, I want you to know, I do not hate the idea of this change. However, as it stands, this is pretty much a nerf.
What are current Legion's weaknesses? His massive cooldown/fatigue, his gauge depletes on basic attacks, his DW timer gives a generous 30 secs to survivors, a short timer on his Frenzy combined with a relatively mundane speed increase, and (most importantly) his power cannot down survivors.
Let's compare this to Oni. Oni needs to get 1 hit and milk the injured survivor. What does he get? He gets 45 seconds of having one of the best chase powers in the game and can down a whole team before the gauge is depleted (unlikely, but potentially).
Legion... can't do that. It's a weak power, so adding a condition to make you work for it is simply an arbitrary nerf. Now, adding in the passive is pretty cool, if a massive pain to code in, but it's simply not enough. Legion needs help, but this isn't the way.
I do like the thought process behind this though. Perhaps you could use it to create your own killer rather than being limited by trying to improve Legion?
That's exactly what I hear from everyone and I don't know what else they could possibly do to Legion to help them. I've been constantly pointing everyone to the post I made about Legion's flaws at the top of this thread, and I'm trying to address the issues in this rework. I don't want to get into detail because that's like... an entire essay to write for a single reply. I don't mean to be so stubbornly obstinate, but this is my second attempt at Legion and feel really confident about this one.
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Update:
- Different actions reward a different amount of charges.
- Killer Instinct is no longer timed.
- Passive power updated to increase lunge range.
- Specified fatigue and attack cooldown times. (4 second fatigue from manual cancel or time depletion; 3 second attack cooldown after Frenzy auto-cancel.)
I have no idea if this'll be too strong, specifically for the charge update because it feels like the Hillbilly changes all over again. First a huge nerf, then a buff to the point where it doesn't even matter, then a nerf again. I hope it doesn't come to that.
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@BattleCast said:
I always enjoy reading about how Legion's concept can be expanded 😊
Some Feedback:
FERAL FRENZY SHOULD START FULLY CHARGED
The beginning of the game is a very important part of the game ESPECIALLY for Legion. Many times the survivors will spawn together and begin working on a generator. If Legion's power started depleted it would rob him of potential multi-stabs that can carry them to the mid-game.
FERAL FRENZY SHOULDN'T REDUCE DEEP WOUND TIMER
No lethal frenzy even if its really bad >:(
FERAL FRENZY SHOULD NOT DEACTIVATE IMMEDIATELY WHEN NO HEALTHY SURVIVORS ARE NEARBY
I can see this sometimes screwing you over more than it could help. Ex: Survivor vaults off a second floor window on Haddonfield after you FF slash and now you have to sit through a stun before you can slow vault. This could work as an add-on though.
LEGION PASSIVE
I'll try my best to improve upon the concept. Here is what I came up with while brainstorming for an hour:
While chasing an injured survivor after 8 seconds, begin a "Feral Rush". During a "Feral Rush" You can vault windows faster (.9 seconds) and your lunge is extended. Getting stunned, losing LOS with the injured survivors for more than 2 seconds, successfully or unsuccessfully attacking, losing chase, or upon manual cancellation you will become stunned for 2.5 seconds. "Feral Rush" can last forever until one of those requirements are met, but it's unlikely to last for long periods of time.
When Feral Rush activates there is a global audio que and Legion's eyes will begin to glow bright red. He will also have a stance similar to how he looks while frenzying.
- Perhaps. I was borrowing from Oni quite a lot here so his slow start carried over as well. Though, I figured since you could rack up charges so easily that it would balance out. We could have their power fully charged from the start, or half-charged. Regardless, manually charging the power should stay.
- I totally understand where you're coming from, but the odds of you hitting a Deep Wounded Survivor with your power twice is extremely unlikely. Hitting a Survivor with Deep Wound already cancels your power. Which means you'll have to earn your power back before you can hit them again. If that happens, that's really their own fault for not mending. (I think I forgot to mention this in the original post.)
- I see where you're coming from and I can vividly imagine a moment like that. However, moments like those happen even under normal circumstances (with basic attacks) and if you're aware that hitting them will cancel the power, you should wait until they vault before attacking.
- Feral Rush... I kinda like it. It's like what I had but actually feels complete. Though, I would change a few things. It's a passive, so it shouldn't require manual input from the player, and it should last indefinitely as long as you're in a chase with an injured Survivor. No end stun either. The reason for this is because the passive is meant to give the Survivors an incentive to heal (since current Legion has no such thing), because if they don't, they'll be at a constant chasing disadvantage. I think the vaulting speed and extended lunge is the selling point here. Tier III Myers has an extended lunge and increased vaulting speed and he performs exceptionally well in chases, so I can see this working well.
Thanks for the feedback! I really wish I could have more discussions like this to further build on conceptual powers and such. :)
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@anarchy753 said:
It takes 100 charges, which is 200 seconds passively. That's basically enough to get all the gens done before it charges passively once.
In order to manually charge it you would need to do 9-10 actions which are basically hits or breaking.
So basically by the first time you use your power the map is clear of pallets, and all of the gens are done.
The numbers can be tweaked.
And if you rely on your power passively charging, then that means you’ve seriously just AFK’d. There’d be no other explanation for it.
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@bubbabrotha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683367#Comment_1683367
I feel like this is just a nerf. Which is not what he needs.
Obviously. It's not supposed to be a nerf. What it's supposed to be is similar to Oni, but a bit different. Oni charges up and secures quick downs. For Legion, they charge up and chain attack Survivors for widespread pressure. And they'll also have a passive so they can capitalize on this pressure frenzying or not.
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@GhostyyBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683329#Comment_1683329
it's the normal Legion but with a power you have to earn by doing stuff. I love the 20 second reduction and the passive, but other than that it is, as I said, hella weak.
That’s exactly what it is. Same Legion and then some. I didn’t want to change too much to avoid overcomplicating it. Like I said, I’m making the power less annoying and give it counterplay, as well as loop-stopping and an incentive for Survivors to heal.
The numbers can be changed. It’s just hard to measure without proper testing.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683329#Comment_1683329
Well, it's just the legion's current power, except with extra steps required for them to trigger it fully. You'd just be weaker legion till you hit someone while frenzying, and then you're just...... current legion. It just doesn't really help the stuff they're weak in, it simply shuffles strengths around.
I wanted to make Legion less irritating to go up against and rewarding to play effectively. You can refer to the link I sent at the top if you want to see I mean.
As for the power, we can change the numbers around if need be. (And keep in mind, we’re also not including add-ons.) I don’t want Legion nerfed by any means. As he stands right now, Legion is alright. He just needs anti-looping capability and to be scarier to face from the Survivor’s perspective without being annoying.
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@GhostyyBoi said:
The power sounds good but also hella weak
@PayneKiller said:
really pointless... next
@YOURFRIEND said:
This just seems to make legion worse?
Can I please have an explanation? I put careful thought into this before posting, so I want reasonable criticism if you’re gonna comment. Then I can make changes with your feedback provided and give Legion the treatment they need... hopefully.
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Legion just feels incomplete to me. When choosing between stabbing the Survivor and cancelling your ability, and the most efficient is the second option, just doesn't feel right to me.
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Empathy and Buckle Up.
They're both all right perks with the right builds or go hand in hand, but I could envision them combined into Empathy and give Buckle Up a completely new effect. I always felt that it had an odd effect for a Survivor like Ash.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't have much knowledge outside of maybe a few game developing groups in college (where I was mostly doing artwork and some minor coding), but generally it has to do with simplification and proper use of data structures.
A 100MB image being converted to a lower resolution (revised at that resolution) is easier to render.
Condensing multiple states into one or two can help with sending/receiving data (do I need to know that I'm hemorrhaging from sloppy butcher or Echoes, or just that I'm Hemorrhaging?). As well as using the smallest data types possible that still hold the same information. Sending a double 0/1 (32 bits) is more data than is needed for something like a boolean (1 bit). Using proper data structures and searches that allow for more efficient lookups, such as binary search on an array rather than simple traversal, using a Hashmap where possible for average O(1) lookup.
And then there's the rendering engine which is dark magicks, I have no idea about this stuff, but presumably improving data structures in there is probably a good idea, or making things that are specific to your needs (though likely already very efficient, and if it's 3rd party probably can't be touched).
All of which is time intensive though, so it's not like you can just go "Whee, I've improved the framerates by 30%!", unless for some reason you stumble upon some really, really shoddy work that can be quickly fixed.
Though take all this with a grain of salt, it's been a while since I've done a lot of coding, and I really never touched network stuff. Mostly doing QA now.
So it's all about resource management it seems. Or the simple explanation? That's my takeaway. But I kinda get it. Thanks for the reply!
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@Mandy said:
That's probably a question for a Q&A Stream tbh - not something that we can easily answer here.
Well, the question isn't directed at the devs specifically, though it would be nice to hear from them. I was hoping maybe someone from this community had some form of an answer, even if it's just speculation or theory.
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I think you heavily underestimate the sheer power of Devour Hope, which is most likely the reason why Undying has this handicap. Devour Hope can completely turn a losing game in your favor and end games even faster. Sorry Huntress Lullaby and Third Seal. Maybe next time.
I'd be fine with the aura change though. I was never particularly bothered by it in the first place.
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@Hassaku said:
Hey, so i recently started looting items with plunders and got a key few times (I don't use keys at all) and I had 2 games where i was downed near hatch and I couldn't use the key while I was in dying state.
Is this a well known thing or a bug? Please someone guide me to the right path because I am lost...
You can't use keys while downed. You can't do anything but crawl or recover when you're downed, no matter the circumstances.