TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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@Lentara said:
I think I'll have to give an example from my personal experience. One of them was a match against Deathslinger. The guy was sweating a lot and playing with red addons, tunneling people. I was playing with my duo. Two other guys suicide on hooks (and I don't blame them), there were 3 generators left to fix for the two of us (we were both on stage 2 of the hook). At some point, the killer became nice, or so it seemed to us then. He dragged us all over the map using his ability, let us fix the generators, constantly keeping us in sight. We spent about 15 minutes on all this. And in the end, as soon as we fixed the last generator (we were both damaged as well), he dropped us both. And he moribund us right next to the generator. If you specifically would cry from joy from such behavior, then I sympathize with you, because personally I consider this toxic behavior. And yes, if he had hooked us, the behavior of "I'm cute now and will give you hope but then I'll kill you" is still bad, but you must admit, less sad than "officially" giving your soul to an entity on a hook. Your argument "it's just a game" does not work, you cannot deny that toxic behavior exists and we, as people who have emotions, feel this behavior, and it does not matter if it happened in real life or in a game. It is not a pleasant feeling.
The second case was similar, but at least it did not take so long. We played against Ghostface, he hooked us all 2 times and let us go. I do not know why he did not like me, but he did a mori on me 1 centimeter from the exit border. What would have changed if he had carried me on the hook? Yes, a lot. Firstly, all team members were alive and were ready to take the hit. Then the classic rescue with a flashlight. Do you now understand what I mean or still not?
the killer became nice, or so it seemed to us then. He dragged us all over the map using his ability, let us fix the generators
as soon as we fixed the last generator (we were both damaged as well), he dropped us both. And he moribund us right next to the generator
I still consider that nice because the killer could have killed me immediately but instead he let me get some points before killing me. If I don't need or want the points, I'll refuse to do gens and demand he kill me.
If the only thing you care about is escape in this game, matches are going to feel a lot worse. I usually assume I'm going to die and try to enjoy what happens in the meantime, it's healthier.
but you must admit, less sad than "officially" giving your soul to an entity on a hook
No? The entity isn't real and the dying on the hook animation is boring. The mori is the more fun way to die.
We can turn this around and say putting the survivors on a hook when you have a mori is like saying "I don't care enough about you to give you the cool animation." You can reframe something with no meaning and give it any meaning you want. Just try to remember it actually has no meaning except the meaning you give it.
we, as people who have emotions, feel this behavior, and it does not matter if it happened in real life or in a game. It is not a pleasant feeling.
You can't change other people. You'll be happier if you can reframe your own perspective. I don't get mad when the survivor teabags me: I assume they're trying to get my attention and keep me in chase. My feelings aren't hurt when the killer hits me on the hook: I assume they're new or they're roleplaying. If the killer decides to bleed me out, I put my controller down and go do something else.
I don't take the actions of my opponents personally. I don't take dying personally.
he did a mori on me 1 centimeter from the exit border
You knew he had the mori. Even if the killer seems friendly, if you don't want to die, you keep the mori in mind. If you did keep it in mind but your teammates failed you, then that's on your teammates. The killer did what killers do and killed.
We've all had matches like the two you described. Mori'd in the exit gate, the only person to die, killer pretended to be friendly (you should never take this at face value, always stay on your toes), all that stuff. I've been mori'd on top of an open hatch. It happens. I cursed at the game for recovering instead of letting me escape through the hatch (I hate the button bindings in DbD), I laughed a bit, and that was about all the thought I gave it.
I do not know why he did not like me
This here is the problem. You take it personally.
I've gone against killers who turned out to be streamers. I went and watched the VOD of the match afterwards. None of them were malicious about killing me. It was never personal. Some did "eenie meenie miney mo" if they were trying to decide who to kill. Some were meme-ing. One that specifically comes to mind was a killer with Rancor who was just going for surprise Rancor moris. They were talking to chat, friendly, having a good time, and even expressed how they liked the survivors they were going against, including the obsession. Yeah, the obsession who they were trying to kill, they liked the survivor, but they still had every intention of playing the meme game they queued up for and killing them.
Every once in a while someone may not like you and may target you specifically for some reason, but it's not the norm, and unless they tell you so in chat you'll never know. One of the most common reasons a killer will target one survivor over another is the survivor character someone has chosen to play as. That's not personal; it's annoying if you like a character many killers seem to have a vendetta against, but it's not personal.
@Lentara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818672#Comment_3818672
You probably misunderstood me. I am against the way mori is used. And that mori is a complete deprivation of survivors of the ability to save a dying teammate. As I said, it's all about abuse because someone has gained control over the player. This is what makes the fact of mori too toxic. And I don't see anything wrong with giving survivors a choice whether they want it or not. Mori should have a counter-version, like "lightborne" against blinding.
mori is a complete deprivation of survivors of the ability to save a dying teammate
Survivors know the mori is in play. They can body block and try to distract the killer to help keep their teammate from going down into the dying state. There are fewer options available to the survivors, but it's not a complete removal of their ability to help each other. Personally, I think the mori is the better option than the killer slugging all four survivors and then killing them; playing in that manner also makes it harder for the survivors to help each other, and it can be extremely boring to be slugged. You may disagree and prefer being slugged, but that all comes down to personal preference, and our preferences don't determine how our opponent plays. The developers also can't design the game around these kinds of things when everyone is different and has different personal preferences.
I don't see anything wrong with giving survivors a choice whether they want it or not. Mori should have a counter-version, like "lightborne" against blinding.
The game developers went through the trouble of giving each killer (and some cosmetics) their own unique mori. BHVR is selling moris attached to cosmetics. They're not going to let survivors disable moris.
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Did any of the survivors bleed out? If not, I would think it's a bug. It wouldn't be the first time an adept achievement was bugged.
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But… but… my favorite matches using Blood Warden all had it proc with not enough time left for escape. It's hard to pull off but so damn entertaining when it happens.
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@mysticalCat said:
yup I agree, no one asked for this, and the mori should be earned not handed out. It’s just not right. Who even asked for this. What happened to offerings. More reason to slug at end game yay 🙄 maybe see how the community feels about things like this instead of implementing these changes due to “numbers” if killers aren’t using moris that’s their fault.
the mori should be earned not handed out
A quote from a dev: "“A mori is how you’d expect The Killer to finish a well-played match, so it made sense to go in that direction." Source: https://deadbydaylight.com/news/mori-rework/
The phrase "well-played" signifies that the devs consider a killer getting a 4k to be earning the mori. Or, you could rearrange that a bit and say the act of earning a 4k unlocks the finisher mori.
if killers aren’t using moris that’s their fault.
Game developers don't really like it when they go through the trouble of designing and programming a game mechanic and then it's barely used. If killers aren't using the mechanic, then that would suggest there's an issue that needs to be addressed. That's not the players' fault, that's a game design problem. They create a unique mori for every single killer and even some cosmetics; they want the mori to be seen.
It's also a really bad sign of a game's future if the developers say that when an element of their game is failing it's the players' fault. That's not how we want the developers to treat their game or their playerbase.
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@MissClove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818924#Comment_3818924
I really appreciate the build info. I sometimes use no mither with another build I use when I use weaving of spiders. But that’s the only time.
The slugging has always been an issue, I get that. I’ve played dbd since the beginning but I’m
Seeing a lot more lately. Just wish they would address the issue. Maybe somemore perks that stop it too.
I miss old Buckle Up, where both survivors got the Endurance effect, but the updated WGLF speeds up recovering someone else and it gives the slugged survivor Endurance so it's worth trying.
Plot Twist is part of my normal build, so I can often mess with slugging killers. Pretty sure a few decided slugging is no fun when a survivor does it to themselves, or they at least stopped taking the match so damn seriously.
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818924#Comment_3818924
I think when we're at the point where you have to run certain perks to avoid common bm play styles, it's a sign that the game design has gone wrong somewhere.
But I could see that build being fun for matches where it gets a lot of use. In a bad use of unbreakable, I once picked myself up and took off running right in front of the killer when he was coming to pick up myself and the other remaining slug, even when I had plenty of time to do it while he was away. I think it made him laugh bc he spared both of us in the end :)
But back to the point, UB is a bandaid, kind of like Lightborn for people who struggle with audio tracking. I agree with op that the current slugging meta needs a nerf (probably some minor tweaks to hooking and slugging to make it less useful to slug). Though I think we need to preserve the ability to slug for bully squads, so the balance might be tricky to find.
like Lightborn for people who struggle with audio tracking
Or players like me who are on previous-generation consoles and simply can't reliably mechanically counter blinds. But also, yeah, trying to track via audio can be awful on Switch. Turn the camera half an inch and you can't hear the generator you're working on, and there have been times I couldn't hear the hatch five feet away out in the open.
I think when we're at the point where you have to run certain perks to avoid common bm play styles, it's a sign that the game design has gone wrong somewhere.
the balance might be tricky to find.
Which is why I think slugging still exists in its current state: the balancing is tricky. The game is designed around it being an option for killers. It may not be fun to be slugged, but making a drastic change to it could wildly swing the balance of the game.
Slugging has been complained about relentlessly for a long time. When the built-in final mori mechanic was first introduced, it came with unlimited built-in Unbreakable. The built-in Unbreakable was way too powerful so it was scrapped, but it does suggest the devs are looking for ways to mitigate slugging and simply haven't found anything viable yet.
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I run it because in solo queue I can't count on my teammates to heal me. SC has often been the difference between me living and me dying. Plus, Botany Knowledge on its own is pretty great, the faster healing sure does feel good and it counters Sloppy Butcher. In Lights Out, healing felt unbearably slow since I couldn't have Botany.
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Want to be a pain in a slugging killer's butt? WGLF, Unbreakable, Soul Guard, and Plot Twist. Make your own fun.
You may not have Soul Guard and Plot Twist, but WGLF and Unbreakable are the more important perks and they're on free characters who come with the game. Normally I wouldn't suggest an entire build to deal with one issue, but if it's happening almost every match then it makes sense to focus your perks around it. No Mither is also an option to avoid being slugged, but the broken status can ruin what would otherwise be a fine match, so it's not something I'd recommend.
Edit: I should point out that Unbreakable and Plot Twist don't stack. The gag here is you can pick yourself up if the killer downs you or you can put yourself on the ground and pick yourself back up into the healthy state; the only way to pick yourself up twice is when Plot Twist resets during EGC. If the lack of stacking is an issue, feel free to replace one with a different perk.
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@Jaroslavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818766#Comment_3818766
Thank you very much for your understanding and I apologize once again, I should probably take a break, a longer break.
I mainly play as a Survivor, I haven't found a Killer yet that I enjoy and that I would like to learn.I know you're right and so are the others and what I wrote is nonsense, but at least something tiny could definitely be improved, for both sides.
Thank you again for your understanding and I hope to enjoy the game better after the break.
:)Thank you very much for your understanding and I apologize once again
It is no problem at all. You are absolutely not the first person to be frustrated by this game. It's a natural reaction. We have all been there.
I haven't found a Killer yet that I enjoy and that I would like to learn.
It can be tough because killer is lonely. It's a completely different experience from playing survivor. If you didn't play killer during the first release of 2v8 mode, you may want to try when it releases again in November. There will be a few more killers available to play as than there were during the first release.
I hope to enjoy the game better after the break.
I hope you do, too :)
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@Jaroslavus said:
And I would like to ask where the concepts for the new Killers and survivors go, I have something and I would like to show it.
And I apologize to everyone
Fan creations and concepts can be posted at the following location:
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@Jaroslavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818755#Comment_3818755
No, it's not like that, but I don't like it when people sympathize with killers. I'm mainly a survivor and I just want to get something out of the game, some fun. You can't do anything in that game.
And yes, I'm also emotionally frustrated because I'm going through an illness right now and I have to sleep with a breathing mask at night because of it.But I appreciate what you wrote, I know, but minor changes could at least be made, at least 1 perk to protect survivors.
So sorry for everything.I am sorry that you are going through hard times. I will be straight up with you: DbD is not a good game for times when you are emotionally stressed. Even if the changes you suggested were made, they would not be made tomorrow, they would take a very long time to implement.
Dead by Daylight is a notoriously bad experience for new players. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to play, because it takes learning all the maps, learning killer powers, learning perks, learning add-ons, learning how to loop. There's no getting around those things, they are core parts of DbD and they change and grow with each update to the game.
Taking breaks from DbD is good. I myself take long breaks from DbD. I play both survivor and killer (much more survivor than killer, lately, but I don't completely ignore the killer role), and I pretty much only play for events. Maybe I turn the game on for new tome challenges, but mostly events. It is good to take breaks from this game. Most people who play the game will agree that if they don't take breaks, it quickly becomes unfun.
You should take care of yourself and play something more suited to your state of mind, whether that's a symmetrical PvP game or a story-driven PvE game or even something relaxing like Animal Crossing (I play Animal Crossing, it's a relaxing game if you don't take fishing too seriously and don't focus on the crushing debt). Mental and emotional stress negatively affects the body and can have damaging physical repercussions even without illness involved. No one wishes that on you. We want to see you enjoy the game or, if you can't, we want to see you understand that sooner rather than later so you don't lose time to something that will only make you unhappy. Time is precious to us all.
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@Jaroslavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818739#Comment_3818739
If you want me out, say so right away. Why should people like me even write anything. To complain about something.
Is that what you really got from my comment? No one has tried to push you out. But perhaps you should take a short break and go do something that relaxes you. If you feel that people who are trying to help you are actually attacking your or trying to push you out, then it seems like you are having a dramatic emotional response to the video game and to people trying to help you better enjoy said video game. No one is personally attacking you. Disagreeing with someone is not a personal attack, and if you don't realize that then you have been spending too much time with people who parrot your opinions. It is a normal part of life that we come across people with whom we disagree.
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@Jaroslavus said:
It's hard to throw a post on here and see normal responses etc. Because people often like to screw it up.
It was a mistake to put something here. People don't have respect and repsect.Respect goes both ways. When experienced players give you advice on how to play against the things you consider overpowered because you haven't learned how to counter different killers' powers, the person giving advice is not being disrespectful. Saying you don't want to listen to opinions that are different from yours after someone has tried to help, that is disrespectful.
@Jaroslavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818724#Comment_3818724
One just wants to point out what is wrong with the game. It is perhaps difficult to understand that one wants to enjoy the game!
But it doesn't work if the Killer side is on a higher level than the Survivor side. Then the game loses its meaning.
If you don't understand it and prefer to support the prevailing party, then please don't write. Thank you for your understanding.it doesn't work if the Killer side is on a higher level than the Survivor side
Then there would only be one killer and one survivor, or there would be four killers and four survivors. Because you are describing the balance of a symmetrical game.
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@Jaroslavus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818701#Comment_3818701
Normal Comments:
- no swearing
- no pampering of Killers
- only an objective view
- no Spam
- somewhat supportive comments (for better gameplay)
- Survivors welcome
no pampering of Killers
Survivors welcome
Those two items in your list eclipse everything else in the list and suggest you're either looking for an echo chamber (the official forums aren't the place for that, you want a private Discord group or something) or this is a rant post and you're looking for other survivors to vent about their bad experiences in the game. Vent posts aren't uncommon, and in this game they're quite understandable, but you should mark it as such so people don't waste your time and their own time trying to explain the game mechanics to you.
@Jaroslavus said:
Please no comments criticizing me or my content. Thank you.
Only those who want to support or encourage the fight for Survivors' rights and a fair fight should write. Thank you once again.
:)Yeah, that really implies you're looking for an echo chamber. There have been posts trying to help you understand the game and get better at it, but you see those as criticism rather than sympathetic as we've all been there and those posters were trying to give you the wisdom of their experience and save you some of the pain of learning the hard way.
There's no such thing as "survivors' rights." It's a video game. DbD survivors are not an actual group of people who need representation in the world. The gameplay is designed as it is because it's an asymmetrical game and thus has different requirements from a symmetrical game. Most players are used to symmetrical PvP games and don't immediately understand the difference as it's not intuitive, especially when you're not used to the specifics of 1v4.
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What's the definition of a "Normal Comment"?
The second reply to your post went into the specifics of how speed affects chases using math.
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@Lentara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818661#Comment_3818661
No one forbids you to enjoy mori. But you cannot deny that the problem associated with it exists. And there are people who do not want to be killed in this way. It will not hurt you in any way if a personal offering or ability appears that allows you not to be moried. It is the right to choose.
But then why play a horror game? Play any other game. Horror is about awful things happening to a person against their will. People are abducted, attacked, tortured, degraded, forced to watch their loved ones suffer, murdered… etc. etc. That's horror. If the person chooses to go through those, then it's not horror, it's S&M. S&M is something consensual you do with another person or in a dating SIM.
Edit: I guess I should point out that by logging in to play DbD, and knowing that moris exist and are part of the game, you are consenting to these gameplay mechanics happening to you. You are an adult choosing to play the game, and these are horror-related things happening to you in a safe environment, in a fictional polygon-rendered video game. It's safer than going into a haunted house: nothing is physical, nothing can actually touch you.
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Yeah, this absolutely needs to be fixed. When it happens, it is really frustrating. I'll turn the game off the moment the match is over and it destroys any motivation to play DbD for days, sometimes longer.
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A mori is only toxic if it's one of the boring ones like Trapper (non-Naughty Bear) or Wraith. Forcing me as a survivor to watch that shows a complete lack of respect for the value of my time. Play a killer with a fun mori, for god's sake.
Like Wesker. His mori is the dark side of hentai. Good stuff. I've stood in line and waited my turn for that mori more than once.
I'm trying to imagine DbD without moris at all, and really it would be the last vestiges of horror disappearing from the game. Trying to live the horror experience of hiding from a killer/monster and there not being a brutal death animation anywhere? That'd be unbearably vanilla. I don't want DbD to be August Underground, but as a piece of media that's rated mature it would be pretty insulting to adults if the game were safer than a Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark illustration.
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I hate the changes that have been made to maps. I run to a tile on Coldwind and discover a bunch of walls randomly set up and not a single pallet. I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do with that.
The changes to the maps have been atrocious. I might put on WoO again until I have some idea of what havoc has been wrought here.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818209#Comment_3818209
We're pretty sure you get 50 points for the death and does count towards adept (this one we're not 100 on).
Bleed outs do not count towards adepts.
It also does not count for Vecna's achievement of taking the hand/eye off a survivor and killing the other three. If one bleeds out instead of being sacrificed, the achievement will not pop.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818169#Comment_3818169
During the last Chaos Shuffle, I got two of my teammates off the hook in the end game and they were able to safely make it to the exit gate. Maybe the Killer just respected my sacrifice I don't know, but it felt good to get them out all the same.
I did this because I knew there's no MMR loss or gain in the time limited modes. Would I have played this way in the regular mode? Probably not. And I don't go back into the map to try to get the rest of the team to safety unless a lot of us still have hooks to spare.
At the moment, DBD is split between two play styles: aggressive, altruistic team players and the more selfish, lone wolf scaredy cat types. Ideally, the game should be able to support both play styles. I think it would be pretty dull if it didn't (I think I fall between both styles at times, depending on the situation).
But overall, I think the game would be healthier if MMR gains and losses were more team based. Maybe it could be a system like this:
A 2K should be a draw with no loss or gain for either side.
A 3K or 4K for the Killer - Killer gains points, all Survivors lose points. If hatch is found by a Survivor, there will still be a BP reward (and you still get the feel good factor of escaping).
A 3E or 4E for the Survivors - All Survivors in the trial gain points. Survivors that die also gain points, but slightly less points than the others. I know this doesn't fully solve the issue when a Survivor is tunnelled all game, but still manages to keep the Killer occupied so the others can complete the gens and escape, but it's better than a total loss.
Losses and gains are adjusted for any big discrepancies in MMR scores (though I assume this is already the case). If I'm predicted to wipe the floor with a Survivor team and that's exactly happens, they should lose pretty much no MMR points at all.
For all we know, this could be the system that's already in place. I don't think anyone outside of BHVR really knows how it works.
I did this because I knew there's no MMR loss or gain in the time limited modes. Would I have played this way in the regular mode? Probably not. And I don't go back into the map to try to get the rest of the team to safety unless a lot of us still have hooks to spare.
A match that comes to mind is one I had in Lights Out 2.0. The killer was not very aggressive at all. Not sure he hooked anyone during the match, actually. But he did hook someone around the time all the gens got done. Hooked Lara down in the basement. People were healthy, alive, no one was in danger, no MMR to impact… and yet both of the other two survivors on my team ran straight the hell out. I couldn't do that to the Lara. I went to the basement and the killer was nowhere to be found. I got her out easily. I really don't think the killer was trying to kill, especially since he wasn't camping, but even if he were there was no reason for the other two survivors to ditch. Yet they did.
That's how this game has trained people to play. They get to the end, they don't want to risk anything.
I think the game would be healthier if MMR gains and losses were more team based
Yes, I made a post above about how I think participation in the match is more important than escape, and MMR needs to be adjusted to reflect that. I would like to be rewarded for participating by getting better teammates, teammates who also participate. The more emphasis BHVR places on escapes, the worse the experience is. If people aren't rewarded for participating in the game, if the only thing that matters is escape, then playstyles are going to reflect that. That includes giving up early if escape isn't guaranteed. Win or lose, people should be able to enjoy playing the match. Yes, some people will only enjoy winning because that's how they're wired, but the game should not constantly reinforce that so it becomes true for everyone.
tldr: The more emphasis BHVR places on escapes, the worse the experience for everyone.
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@rha said:
What reward (if any) would keep you in a game that you would otherwise leave?The prospect of better teammates. Similar to the old emblem system, it encouraged trying the best and remaining active in an already lost match to pip up and get better teammates who are actually doing something.
Nothing else would work for me. I don't need bloodpoints, I don't need shards, all I want is that most of my matches feel fun and fair.
If they're not going to fix MMR and matchmaking and expect me to lose most of my games thus making MMR gains hopeless, I'd want being one of the last two (or the last) survivor a less boring experience. It's either slug for 4k (super boring and complete waste of my precious time) or search for hatch (less boring, but feels utterly unrewarding and pointless since it's too much RNG). Eliminate the 4k slug and replace hatch with something more exciting, I don't know what, maybe a 1v1 of last survivor and killer where skill matters enough that when you get out you gain MMR.
The prospect of better teammates. Similar to the old emblem system, it encouraged trying the best and remaining active in an already lost match to pip up and get better teammates who are actually doing something.
all I want is that most of my matches feel fun and fair.
This is a very good point. My biggest gripe is my teammates.
It drives me nuts that no matter how well I do, low MMR hell keeps me at the bottom because I don't want to play in a 4-man. I don't escape. I do gens, I do chases, I do saves and heal and take aggro if the killer comes back to the hook, but unless I escape it all means nothing and I continue to get the same teammates who will abandon me first thing. I am always complaining that MMR rewards the wrong thing, that participation matters way more than escape. I want fun matches.
Like I said in my earlier posts, I want to feel rewarded for participating. Getting better teammates is one of the biggest rewards the game could give.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818138#Comment_3818138
As an aside this I just want to say this is an enjoyable conversation.
I really appreciate your pragmatic stances on this issue. I respect your experiences. I especially love the idea of rewards other than escape.
I’m in full agreement that there needs to be more to work towards on the Survivor end besides escape and challenges. I think I remember hearing that challenges were going to be overhauled so that there is central bank of challenges that simultaneously fill as you complete the miscellaneous tasks. I love that, it’s like how some battle royale game challenges work.
I know it would garner a lot of opposition but how do you feel about “death rewards”? On the surface it may seem like people will die on purpose just for these “death tokens” but if we just shelf that problem for a bit in my opinion it would go a very long way in reducing the sting of death on the Survivor side. It could even be a like death punch card. Just something to make players feel like they are making more progress than BP or Devotion level. Even just adding rift level 200 feels better than before even though it is just BP. It feels good to see a counter or “high score” go up.
As an aside this I just want to say this is an enjoyable conversation.
I agree. It's is nice to have a pleasant back-and-forth conversation on the forums :)
I think I remember hearing that challenges were going to be overhauled so that there is central bank of challenges that simultaneously fill as you complete the miscellaneous tasks. I love that, it’s like how some battle royale game challenges work.
Ooh, I hope that's true. I like doing the Tome challenges.
I know it would garner a lot of opposition but how do you feel about “death rewards”? On the surface it may seem like people will die on purpose just for these “death tokens” but if we just shelf that problem for a bit in my opinion it would go a
verylong way in reducing the sting of death on the Survivor side. It could even be a like death punch card. Just something to make players feel like they are making more progress than BP or Devotion level.I think this has a lot of possibilities, as long as it's handled with care. Like I said, people feel that there's no difference in dying early vs dying later, so why stick it out if you feel your death is assured. If people make it to the late game and die, it can hurt a lot more than dying early: you put in all that effort and don't get the big reward. Dying early is no big deal compared to the absolute frustration of dying later. As people get further into the match, they take fewer risks, they participate less, because participation is what gets them killed. And again, it's escape that matters.
There are many instances where death stings when it shouldn't, and those are the instances that deserve some sort of reward so the player feels like their sacrifice was worth it. For example:
- You open the exit gate but don't escape
- You go to save someone in the end game but fail (yes, it's a fail, but players should be encouraged to try and right now they're really not)
- You go to save someone in the end game and succeed but die in the process
- You do a lot of gens or keep the killer in chase for much of the match, and then you're hooked in the end game and your team leaves you to die
- There are still gens left, it's down to 2v1, and you die saving your teammate
Those are deaths the player should feel good about and yet the game treats them no differently than if they'd died two minutes into the match. Risks in video games are the fun part, but this game punishes taking risks so much that many survivors play it as safe as humanly possible. Dying in the video game doesn't kill us in real life, but the way many players act you'd never know it.
Even just adding rift level 200 feels better than before even though it is just BP. It feels good to see a counter or “high score” go up.
I agree with this. I don't need BP at all and yet I feel rewarded in a match where I earn a lot of BP and I feel like I wasted time in a match where I earn very little. This is totally counterintuitive because I actually hate spending BP, I try to avoid prestiging my favorite characters, and yet my brain is still tricked into feeling rewarded when I earn BP. It's so silly.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818124#Comment_3818124
I see I see. So from your experience there is a toxic behavior (hiding and waiting for hatch) that would only get worse if there were increasing rewards.
As bad as it can feel, I do believe that players hiding and waiting for hatch is better than the players who give up on the match as a whole. Which isn’t to say that you, TragicSolitude, should change how you feel or anything.
It’s a complicated issue because I believe it is a multi-step process. If we give greater rewards maybe we will help with people quitting, but now more people will be tempted to play in way that brings out their worst tendencies.
Are both equally frustrating for you? Players who hide and players who quit?
I imagine a solution where we try and make a dent in people giving up. While also reforming other aspects of the game the community dislikes. For instance what you dislike, excessive hiding. What if we can solve that AND increase rewards? I think it is possible. Excessive hiding can easily be fixed with some kind of notification or aura read.
If this post makes you feel dismissed then I am sorry. I just want to make a case that I truly believe that we can (mostly) find win/win solutions to the aspects of the game that frustrate us.
If this post makes you feel dismissed then I am sorry. I just want to make a case that I truly believe that we can (mostly) find win/win solutions to the aspects of the game that frustrate us.
It's perfectly fine. It's a discussion. We all have different experiences in the game; I know that mine may be different from others.
Are both equally frustrating for you? Players who hide and players who quit?
When someone quits, everyone has that information immediately, and the person who's gone can't sabotage the match in any other way. Teammates who hide, if they're found, very often run at areas where they know other survivors are. It's pretty common that if a hiding teammate is found, rather than keeping the killer busy they will run towards a gen being worked on. The hiding survivor was never on a gen, but now someone who was on a gen is being chased by the killer.
I have let hiding survivors die on the hook and the quality of the match improves afterward. It seems backwards but it's true. So, in my experience, a useless survivor in the match is much more frustrating than no survivor at all.
What if we can solve that AND increase rewards? I think it is possible. Excessive hiding can easily be fixed with some kind of notification or aura read.
I'd love for killers to get notifications about survivors who aren't participating in the match. AFK crows are not aggressive enough. However, I also try to be careful about suggesting possible killer buffs, especially in a topic about decreasing the rate of survivors quitting.
In terms of decreasing the rate of survivors quitting, I'd say the solution is to give them goals that look achievable. They're quitting because the goal of escape does not look achievable. Increasing the reward for escape won't make it more achievable, so those who are quitting probably won't be enticed by an increased reward. Increasing the rate of escape would negatively affect killers, so I don't want to suggest that, either. Survivors need things they can achieve, goals they can reach other than escape, within their matches. That could be increased Bloodpoints for participation, that could be some text calling you a "HERO" instead of just "SACRIFICED" if you helped your teammates a lot, it could be something completely new added to the gameplay mechanics, but there needs to be something that will keep survivors playing when escape is unlikely. As is, everything hinges so much on escape that many players don't feel like what they do outside of escaping matters. When people feel like what they do doesn't matter, that's when they give up.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818107#Comment_3818107
I like your ideas of more rewards for participating. I still personally believe that increasing escape rewards would help more than hurt but I do respect where you are coming from.
In the very least I think that we can both agree that while it won’t solve the problem of giving up, Survivors could do with a reward “update” as a whole.
increasing escape rewards would help more than hurt
One of the things I complain about most on this forum are teammates who hide and wait for the hatch. Many do that from the moment they load into the trial. Those ruin more of my matches than suicides or anything else. Other people may have a different experience, but from my perspective increasing rewards for escape, especially escape through the hatch, would be one of the worst things that could happen to my own survivor matches.
Escape is the win condition. It's already so highly valued that the last survivor will teabag on the hatch for 10 minutes until the killer comes to see them escape because, even though the killer got a 3k, that survivor considers themself the overall winner thanks to the RNG we-don't-want-survivors-hiding-for-30-minutes pity mechanic. Meanwhile, I'm waiting there on the spectate screen wanting to see the killer's loadout.
That's where I stand on that. It's why I have never and could never advocate for greater escape rewards, because it already brings out the worst in many of my teammates.
I think that we can both agree that while it won’t solve the problem of giving up, Survivors could do with a reward “update” as a whole.
Definitely. Survivors absolutely need an update to the way the game rewards them. Bloodpoint gains are pretty miserable.
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Escape is already too heavily rewarded. The game needs to reward participation more. The greater emphasis the game places on escape, the less survivors are going to be willing to stick it out the moment it looks like they might not escape.
The higher the value placed on things like escaping through the exit gate or the hatch, the more players will focus on only those. If participating rewarded more points (and maybe if you died but got a gold Lightbringer or Altruism the game could give you a bit of text with some props rather than just "SACRIFICED"), it would be much more worth it to play through a match that doesn't end in escape.
I'd say a big problem is that for many survivor's there's not a big difference between dying sooner vs dying later in a match. Both points wise and in terms of any feeling of achievement. What they do doesn't matter if it doesn't lead to escape in the end.
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Most of us would love iri shards. I know I would.
But the extra Rift levels with Bloodpoints aren't meant to be meaningful. Players were complaining because BHVR would give out free Rift fragments and the dedicated players were already done with the Rift and so they received literally nothing. The extra levels were added so that dedicated players receive something. 5k Bloodpoints is practically nothing, but it's not literally nothing.
The devs probably chose to end at 200 levels because it's high enough that very few reach it. Players aren't supposed to reach the end. If something meaningful is added to levels 85-200, then players are going to want to earn those things, they're going to want to finish the entire Rift. Which will lead to complaints that it's too hard to earn Rift Fragments, BHVR needs to give out more Rift fragments, and then if people starting reaching the end of the Rift we're back to the original complaint that they receive literally nothing after they reach the end…
I'd love iri shards, but I understand why the reward is 5k Bloodpoints.
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Me and my friend were playing with two randoms, a Meg and a Nea. The killer was a Mikey. He hit tier 1 quickly because the Meg just sat there and fed him. The Nea seemed to be doing the same thing. I told my friend the Mikey's gonna have Tombstone and Tuft of Hair.
The other two were letting Mikey feed off them. When Mikey went to where my friend was, he still hadn't left tier 2 yet. My friend let go of the gen to play the lute. No matter how quick a person tries to be, the lute sometimes just takes too dang long to start playing. Mikey instantly hit tier 3 and Tombstoned my friend.
Well, Mikey let the other two run around in front of him endlessly and didn't touch them, but he Tombstoned my friend immediately, the moment he saw him, without any hello, how's the weather, how do you feel about getting stabbed. Since I didn't get to play the lute while my friend was Tombstoned and now he's not there to play the lute while I get Tombstoned, either, I decided I wasn't going to be Tombstoned. I held onto the gen and missed every skill check. Mikey stood there, watching me, as the gen got further and further away from being completed. He finally grabbed me off the gen and walked away from it, then dropped me on the ground.
The Nea fearlessly came over, and he stood a few feet away and watched as she picked me up, which I allowed to happen…
Mikey took a step towards me when I came up off the ground, surely happy to be standing well between me and the gen… and I Plot Twisted my ass right back down.
Mikey stared at me on the ground… and he stared… I'd occasionally let Nea pick me up if he'd backed far enough away and then I'd Plot Twist myself back down… at some point Meg became a bot and Mikey Tombstoned Nea. He stared at me some more. When I was a second away from bleeding out, he picked me up and put me on a hook. He hit the gen in front of us a couple times, gazed passionately into my eyes while telling me exactly where I fall on the Hot Crazy Matrix, then walked away to go search for the Meg bot.
(I'm curious if he would've Tombstoned me if I unhooked myself before he walked away. I don't know if he stood there a good bit longer than necessary to see if he could trick me or just to make absolutely sure I could unhook myself. I was on Switch, I couldn't ask him after the match. Any of you have an opinion on that?)
I popped the gen and got out through the exit gate. Mikey Tombstoned the bot.
Moral of the story: Injured Survivor with Plot Twist beats Tombstone. I hope Mikey cursed and laughed when I used Plot Twist that first time. It was meant as a cheeky little surprise.
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I've found Nemesis to be the most comfortable killer for me to play on console. Mainly because of his strafe, but it's also nice that the zombies aren't affected by the console's performance issues.
I tried playing with mouse and keyboard on PC for a bit and was reminded how much I hate using WASD for movement. It feels so clunky and unnatural. I wish I could replace the right analog stick with the mouse and use a controller with my left hand for everything else. (I did look up those left-handed stick plus keyboard gamer things for PC that some companies have done… seems the best ones are retired and my god the things are expensive, it's a damn analog stick and some keyboard keys what the hell people).
I've been complaining about how terrible most killers feel on console for so long, now. And we're still missing necessary controller options like dead zone and response curve. Those are important in general but especially with ranged killers.
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Is that not a thing?
There's anonymous mode, which hides your name from other players in the game. There's a setting for turning off your name showing on your own screen, for streamers who don't want their viewers to see their name. And there's a setting that disables showing other players' names on your screen.
Or are you asking for something more specific than that?
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A basic function or at least one guaranteed add-on. As is, getting a green key out of a chest feels like the game actively laughing at you.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816670#Comment_3816670
Also it's a easy win for stealth killers and so help me God if they have rancor, which then that reminds me if your using ooo wouldn't throw killer Also see your aura with rancor?
I know without it ofc you see theirs they don't see you but if they can when you have ooo that is very disgustingly bad.
In that case, if you have OoO and they have Rancor, the correct move is to be in a locker when the last gen pops. Even before the updated HUD and without OoO I would hide around the time I knew the last gen would pop. With the updated HUD, you know precisely when the last gen is about to pop. There are other ways to counter the aura read if you really can't be in a locker, like popping the gen and running one direction then turning around and going in the opposite direction, that kind of thing.
I can only remember dying unintentionally to Rancor once, and that was because I tried to heal a teammate so they could make a save, the killer had Bloodwarden, and my solo queue teammates body blocked me instead of the killer. It was on me for not leaving immediately, though, I accept that. In general, there's almost always some way to counter Rancor; back when Mettle of Man was released, the counter was to be injured when the last gen popped. I know I pissed some killers off with that lol.
… Mettle of Man was so much fun, but my god it was broken as hell.
@AGlassOfOJ said:
Honestly distortion deserved the nerf, 100%, but now that it's done, some killer perks should get nerfed too. BBQ and Nowhere to Hide are stupidly strong and give huge aura reads for doing things you'd usually be doing anyways.
BBQ has a large number of counters. The survivor has to be more than 40 meters away from the hook, for one thing. BBQ encourages the killer to leave the hook and get involved in a chase, which is good for the person on the hook: if the one on the hook is unhooked before the killer has found a new survivor, it's nearly guaranteed the killer will return to the hook.
I almost never see BBQ since the BP bonus was removed, though. Personally, I removed it from every build the moment that happened.
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I used to main Kate because she was hot.
The closest I have to a main, now, is Ada. But I don't always play her (usually, but not always). Sometimes I play Jeff because I can do funny things him him (dress in his road warrior costume and name myself "Mad Max", put on a halo and name myself "Jefsus", that kind of thing, I can change my name at will on the Switch). Sometimes I play Ash with the puppet hand because it looks hilarious when playing the lute. Sometimes I play Leon because he and his injured noises are hot. Sometimes I play Vittorio because he's hot. During Lights Out 2.0 my friend would be Mikaela and I'd be Sable (or vice versa) and we'd dress witchy and make circles with the candelabras. Etc.
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Generator-related perks should not exist on either side. Generators should be specifically balanced for each killer, with the gen slowdown the killer needs built-in (so basically finely tuned basekit perks based on the killer's strength and that complement the killer's power). And with that being balanced survivors should then not have generator perks, either. Trying to balance every perk so that it is neither too strong nor too weak on every killer is impossible and it hurts the game. This could be said of any type of perk but I think it's most true in the arms race of generator perks.
Boil Over's only counter should not be to slug the survivor running it. It has always affected console killers more than PC killers and it is always in effect when a survivor is being carried. It's a horribly designed perk and needs to be completely changed.
I really liked the candelabras in Lights Out 2.0 and hope they return.
Last year's Halloween event was awesome and I want releasing the ghosts as survivor returned.
Bardic Inspiration should have a cool down on the effect but not on playing the lute. (Also, get rid of the scream if the player rolls a one. Instead, have the survivor pull out the lute and a string snaps.)
I don't think killer complaints got Distortion nerfed. Or at least, not killer complaints alone. There's been an increasing amount of complaints from survivors about teammates who don't play the game at all. BHVR's own data probably backed this up enough that they decided Distortion was creating a problem. I don't think BHVR would nerf a perk based on complaints alone, as they've outright said perception is often different from the reality when they look at the data. I keep seeing the people blame killers for this nerf but from my own experience killers adapted; meanwhile, teammates had no recourse but to take the aggro, and I think many who realized what was happening in the match would "go next" because it's one thing to take punishment for one's own choice of perks and another to take punishment for their teammate's perks. Original MFT caused the same problem.
Are those hot takes? I'm pretty sure at least two are (the event-related ones).
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Were you the last survivor to escape? That's part of the requirement for the achievement.
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It's because Hollywood doesn't like taking chances. I actually just read an article about this: Hollywood Needs to Prioritize Research and Development or It Will Die.
No courage, no creativity. Studios specifically focus on existing IPs and banking on nostalgia, it's basically their entire M.O. at this point. Remakes of movies, remakes of TV shows, sequels. I think that's one of the reason indie games are so popular, because they're visions created by a passionate person or small group of people, they take risks, they're not designed from the ground up by a committee.
Hollywood is unlikely to change anytime soon: it doesn't learn from its failures, it blames the fans of the IP for having bad taste.
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With the way BHVR optimizes their game, the graphics will have to be PlayStation 1 level polygons and even then it'll run at 15fps with added frame drops and there will probably be at least one bug for each line of code.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815873#Comment_3815873
My theory is that OP detaches themself from movies but doesn't have the same level of detachment from video games, or at least not from their chosen avatar in DbD, so it feels more personal.
I suppose the main appeal of games is the ability to immerse yourself in a fantasy world you couldn't realistically explore in real life or via movies with your own agency... which is what makes games such a compelling media, and I guess one can't criticise someone for being more attached to that media...
Though it does also kinda bolster the argument that the game is successfully provided the horror experience it advertises... guess it's how's you look at it.
I really enjoyed Martyrs (the original, I still haven't bothered to sit through the remake), the way it holds a mirror up to the audience and asks "Why do we watch horror?"
Should I be ashamed of not having seen Martyrs? It appears I have done acquired late night movie-ing to do 😁
John Carpenter's The Thing is the movie that scared me the most when I saw it when I was young. It's still one of my favorite movies of all time. God I miss special effects like those, CGI is the death of viscerally effective visuals.
Yeeeaas, the Thing is awesome. It's not in my DVD collection and has been on my list for my next bulk buy of horror films 😁
Well done classic effects are timeless, and still hold up decades later because that was actually how they looked in real life... the Evil Dead Remake used practical effects whenever possible, and evening it did go Evil Dead silly at the end (I am ashamed for enjoying that fan service as a much as I did) that film looking incredible start to finish.
I suppose the main appeal of games is the ability to immerse yourself in a fantasy world you couldn't realistically explore in real life or via movies with your own agency... which is what makes games such a compelling media, and I guess one can't criticise someone for being more attached to that media...
Certainly, I love immersing and exploring the world and participating in the story. Games provide a unique method of interacting with world building that no other media can provide, and I love it.
Though it does also kinda bolster the argument that the game is successfully provided the horror experience it advertises... guess it's how's you look at it.
Personally, I stopped thinking DbD was a horror game pretty quickly upon playing it. Everyone will have a different opinion on that, but most things lose the horror experience with repetition and in DbD it takes a ridiculous number of hours to become semi-competent. I see it as a game of tag in a horror-ish costume.
DbD is also different from most horror games by being PvP. There's no story in the interaction between killer and survivor (and good horror needs story), so players apply other motivation to their opponent's behavior. Some people keep it in the perspective of, "It's just a game," but others see it as personal: tunneling is personally singling them out, a mori is overkill when the killer has already won, that kind of thing. If players could always remember games are just games and not to be taken seriously, there would be less friction in this community.
Should I be ashamed of not having seen Martyrs? It appears I have done acquired late night movie-ing to do 😁
Lol not shameful at all. It's foreign and something you have to look for rather than something you might stumble across. A decade or so ago, I had to get my copy on eBay and triple check it was the unrated version.
Well done classic effects are timeless, and still hold up decades later
Absolutely. RoboCop (1987), oh man, good stuff. Meanwhile, modern movies even use CGI blood instead of squibs. I'm always disappointed when I see CGI blood. It distracts me and takes me out of the movie.
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815873#Comment_3815873
That's deep; I like the thinking!
You could be right that the video game avatar also seems like an extension of myself. That's my avatar being murdered. But in movies, it's the character being killed.
But having said that, I don't like movies where the closeup violence or gore seems to just be there for spectacle. And that's the thing that I really don't like about it. Ghostface's mori comes to mind.
He stabs the person multiple times, then picks the victim up as their blood pours out through their mouth and takes a selfie with their dying body. That's not something I'd just pop open on youtube and watch repeatedly, but I'd watch a movie where that happens if the point is to see the tension where the characters have to escape that sort of thing. But watching it happen as I'm exiting a match seems less meaningful to see.
Anyway, well thought out! Big brain and stuff!
You could be right that the video game avatar also seems like an extension of myself. That's
myavatar being murdered.Yeah, I've noticed people put a lot of themselves into their characters/avatars. In return, they also want characters to be more like them. People want characters to officially have the same look, the same personality. Then the negative of that is they take anything that happens to that character personally. It may feel like a more personal victory when they win, but it feels like an offensive personal attack when they lose. Double-edged sword. I don't think players realize this is what's happening, but you can see it in their reactions to practically everything.
I don't like movies where the closeup violence or gore seems to just be there for spectacle. And that's the thing that I really don't like about it. Ghostface's mori comes to mind.
I like all kinds of horror in general, but I'm a big fan of body horror. Like John Carpenter's The Thing, zombie movies, and infection-type movies like Splinter (2008). I love certain types of violence and gore, the good stuff has a real artistry to it.
Comparatively speaking, Ghostface's mori doesn't strike me as particularly violent or gory. Not in the wide spectrum of horror, anyway. It fits the personality BHVR wrote for him. Many survivors treat it as humorous and photobomb the mori if given the chance, which I think is a good way to treat it, as it is just a game.
Maybe my viewpoint is different from most. The only kill in a slasher movie I remember having any sort of effect on me is the Friday the 13th remake, the sleeping bag death. It makes me uneasy in a way watching someone get stabbed doesn't. If you've seen one slasher movie stabbing, you've seen them all.
watching it happen as I'm exiting a match seems less meaningful to see.
I'd say that in any PvP game with no actionable story, there's not much meaning to most things. I wouldn't really assign a meaning to Fatalities in Mortal Kombat other than as a visual spectacle. Players find it fun to watch. Does the person on the receiving end still find it enjoyable to get brutally torn apart for the millionth time when they put endless hours into the game? I really don't know. But in my mind, DbD's mori animation is basically the same thing. It's a finishing move done in a style that fits the game's genre/style. Dying on a hook is visually very boring, and turning into smoke is not only a tame but also quite uninteresting way to die in any mature piece of horror.
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The only outfits of Vittorio's I like are some of the ones he released with. I use his default top or one of his two shirtless. That's it, unless I was to make an ass of myself with his Jester head. I love him, I enjoy playing as him and I'm happy with the outfits of his I use, but damn do I hate everything else that's been designed for him.
When it comes to Gabriel… it's unfortunate that the designers keep going the futuristic route with him the way they do. They seem to want to take inspiration from The Fifth Element, but The Fifth Element is impressive in part because it gets away with that style and part of the reason it does is because it's consistent throughout the entire movie and those designers were extremely talented to pull that off. BHVR needs to accept that taking those designs out of context doesn't work. At best they look silly, but I would usually use words much more negative than that to express my opinions of them.
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@UndeddJester said:
The psychology of this argument seems a little strange to me.... Isn't the whole point of horror to cause fear and repulsion?
Horror isn't a pleasant experience by its very definition, its intent is to disturb and repulse you into fearing for your life... a natural mechanism so you can stay alive. Animals are repulsed by sight and smell of the blood and guts of their own species because that represents danger and potential death... in real life these things tend to trigger either a fight or flight response, or a disgust/repulse response to aid your survival... I would argue you being disgusted by them is kinda the entire point of the horror experience...
So why do we like horror? Well human beings are intelligent and inquisitive, it's what allows us to discover, learn and grow. Being horrified is an interesting experience that is unique to you... you learn about yourself and your own fears through horror stories and media (duch as campfire stories), an experience that no one else can experience for you...
I used to find Predator really disturbing and repulsive, and I even had to take regular breaks when I watched it the first time 21 years ago... now that's almost laughable to me given where I am now with horror, and my knowledge of my personal fears is now far more refined and well understood...
My point is... why are you trying to limit the horror experience for yourself? Surely the whole point of horror is to explore and build upon your own limitations of fear and repulsion?
If you don't want to do that, that's fine... but it seems strange to play a game all about pain, suffering and murder and then complain you are repulsed by people being murdered... that's like going to Nando's Chicken and complaining that you are replused they are serving dead chickens... 🤨
Regarding the go next argument... it's at most 10 seconds, and often shorter than being carried to hook and being sacrificed... what exactly is the point?
My theory is that OP detaches themself from movies but doesn't have the same level of detachment from video games, or at least not from their chosen avatar in DbD, so it feels more personal.
Given how so many players take everything that happens in DbD personally… it's not surprising, but neither is it something that should be acted upon. Then again, maybe if I felt like my avatar was a recreation of my soul rather than seeing it as a fiction created of pixels and polygons, I'd feel spiritually violated when a killer sticks their weapon into my guts. I dunno.
So why do we like horror? Well human beings are intelligent and inquisitive, it's what allows us to discover, learn and grow. Being horrified is an interesting experience that is unique to you... you learn about yourself and your own fears through horror stories and media (duch as campfire stories), an experience that no one else can experience for you...
I really enjoyed Martyrs (the original, I still haven't bothered to sit through the remake), the way it holds a mirror up to the audience and asks "Why do we watch horror?"
I used to find Predator really disturbing and repulsive, and I even had to take regular breaks when I watched it the first time 21 years ago
John Carpenter's The Thing is the movie that scared me the most when I saw it when I was young. It's still one of my favorite movies of all time. God I miss special effects like those, CGI is the death of viscerally effective visuals.
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I run Distressing (BP), Beast of Prey (BP), Lightborn (I'm on console), and either Unrelenting (if I'm on Switch) or Deadlock (if I'm on PS4 rather than Switch, I wish I had something more fun to run but there's no Bardic Inspiration for killers).
I hope Distressing and Beast of Prey are okay with you. Lightborn and Unrelenting are non-negotiable as a Switch player, and I still walk away from the controller in 75%+ of my Switch killer matches as trying to play at sub-15 fps makes me want to cry.
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@Nazzzak said:
Weirdly enough, I've been getting 150% on survivor the last few days around midday my time.
Yeah, it's been 150% for survivor today for me, too. The queue is surprisingly slow for such a large bonus, though. I would expect it to be instant.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815165#Comment_3815165
As I say do not be surprise when aura reading perks /add ons starts to more complain about, but hopefully you and every killer also dont cry nerf shadow step/object if some how they become popular which am sure regardless it be complain about as killers want every survivor perk to be in the garbage bin. Hey I even seen a post about nerfing hope…….of all things lol a perk that only works end game.
killers want every survivor perk to be in the garbage bin
It goes both ways. For any perk one side has that benefits them, there are players on the other side who dislike that it hinders their fun/winning and thus they want it nerfed. Both sides complain non-stop about what the other has. That's just kind of how it is in a game some people take too seriously despite how so much of it is dependent on RNG.
do not be surprise when aura reading perks /add ons starts to more complain about
I've avoided aura perks (except for Tome challenges) since BBQ lost the BP bonus. For the rare times I bother to play killer anymore, I run the same lazy BP build I always have (Distressing for BP, Beast of Prey for BP, Lightborn because I lost the ability to counter blinds on console ever since dedicated servers became a thing, and either Unrelenting to help with the performance issues on Switch or Deadlock because I don't know what else to run on PS4, there's no Bardic Inspiration perk for killer). I mostly play survivor, either in a 2-man or solo, and I was fed up with teammates who ran Distortion so they could avoid playing the game (no generators, no saves, no chases, no healing, why even queue up if all you want to do is hide behind rocks? Who finds that fun?? How is doing nothing to escape with 8k points for getting the hatch worth anyone's time???). Distortion was fine when it was 3 tokens that didn't regenerate. The buffed Distortion allowed survivors to hide their auras, and to regain the tokens for hiding their auras all they had to do was hide some more. It countered way too many killer perks and add-ons and players could use its effect to help them recharge their tokens, and it encouraged the worst behavior in teammates. It was terrible perk design.
And really, with the number of survivor players I saw complaining about teammates who use Distortion, and with the way devs altered Distortion, I think it was survivor complaints rather than killer complaints that got the perk changed. (Or it was changed because of some data BHVR has that we know nothing about, which is also quite possible.) Killers mostly adjusted to buffed Distortion by either countering Distortion with a boatload of aura reads or by not running aura perks.
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I'd like to see more meme perks. Like Bardic Inspiration. I'm more interested in new fun perks than anything. Strong perks usually tip the balance too far one way or another and it just turns into years of complaining. My only complaint about Bardic is that there's a cooldown on playing the lute when the perk only needs a cooldown on the effect.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815061#Comment_3815061
I just pointed one out, lets do darkness reveal for example then since your not getting what am saying, opening a locker how does that take any skill? I can understand its more huntress/trickster needing to reload but still getting value of opening a locker (even though you need to reload your stuff takes no skill.
Ill repeat, Why is my aura reveal for doing my job as survivor where it healing myself or a team mate, why is my aura reveal for unhooking someone? why is my aura reveal by that lil annoying mouthy doll to get a free hit through walls. Ofc I can list all the stuff that requires almost no skill on a killer part when it comes to aura reading but ofc with the 70 + combination of aura add on/perks that be much so its fine.
The only respectable perk ill give out there is BBQ simply because the killer is doing hard work downing and hooking someone to get awarded for it, all other reading perks are not awarding and usually requires a survivor interaction for killer to get free info from without them needing to do it thats all am saying. Notice no one complains about BBQ? Any survivor who does that is honestly I take killer side and say your wierd as a survivor for that and its counters are much more forgiving compared to annoying things like no where to hide/nurses calling, Weaves+franklins.
I just hope I dont see complains of nerf shadow step/nerf OOO and dont be surprise when aura perks become a huge nerf request session best of luck out there. Still waiting on you or anyone to give me a reason why cant aura reading be more limited in terms of 4 uses only like pain res?
It tells me without 24 hour wall hack killers cant do much, as at least with gen regress it requires hooking for most of them and thats not easy very people who know how to loop. Aura reading allows you to do way more things like shutting down a chase quickly , see no where to hide nurse for example.
I was simply talking specifically about Nowhere to Hide because you mentioned it.
Opening a locker doesn't take skill, but it does take time. Again, time is precious to the killer. A Nurse's Calling was added to the game because people would heal the moment they dropped chase while the killer was close by, and so the perk is designed to make that risky. Not everything is about skill. Hell, a lot of perks aren't about skill. Botany takes no skill for a survivor to use, it just works. Alert takes no skill (I see it all the time in my matches, it must be a regional or MMR thing). Sole Survivor rewards someone for letting their teammates die (and yes, it rewards that much more often than it rewards performing better than their teammates). My survivor build is Empathy, Botany, Self Care, and Bardic Inspiration. None of those require skill. One perk is information that activates because the killer has played well, one's nonstop increased healing speed, one allows me to have some chance of surviving in solo queue, and the final one is a lute.
Perks are perks. You get four slots, and you choose where you need help with gameplay mechanics or you choose something fun you want to play with. For killers, a lot of perks are about adding risk to the survivor side.
The only respectable perk ill give out there is BBQ simply because the killer is doing hard work downing and hooking someone to get awarded for it, all other reading perks are not awarding and usually requires a survivor interaction for killer to get free info from without them needing to do it thats all am saying.
BBQ allows the killer to stay active. The killer is able to go from one survivor to another, limiting down time. It also benefits the survivor on the hook by helping the killer find someone else to chase instead of returning to the hook. If a killer has trouble finding survivors in the first place, BBQ isn't much help. Any perk that requires a lot of interaction with survivors for aura reveal will be of limited help to a killer who needs help finding survivors in the first place.
Notice no one complains about BBQ?
This is incorrect. You're new to the forums it seems, so perhaps you haven't seen it, but it has indeed been complained about, even after the removal of the Bloodpoint bonus.
Any survivor who does that is honestly I take killer side
I agree. I have always considered BBQ pretty healthy for gameplay, for the reasons I listed above and because a survivor who really doesn't want their aura seen has ways to counter it.
at least with gen regress it requires hooking for most of them
See, there's a big different between gen regression and information. Gen regression does something for the killer, and it's either automatic or it requires a small amount of action. So, something skillful like getting a hook is required before the regression. The regression is an action that then occurs automatically or with a bit of input. Meanwhile, auras do not in and of themselves do anything. It's not an action, it's information. The skillful part is what's required from the killer afterward. They have to decide whether or not to use that information in the first place, and then they still have to catch the survivor.
Information does not in and of itself equal a successful outcome. Unless you hook someone and forget to kick a gen with PGTW, in general gen regression automatically provides some bit of success for the killer, even if it's minimal. The result of an aura being shown could be literally nothing, the killer might not even be looking in the right direction at the time it's revealed.
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@Sox3027 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814961#Comment_3814961
Sadly I doubt that it is a bug. Even in the menu/store it'a now blue. And instead of being fully orange it's now flowing with electricity.
I did submit a bug report and asked for a refund though, as you said that is not what I paid for.
EDIT: Nvm it might be a bug, I just saw WolfDragon's comment and there is indeed a duplicate of it. (The Copper Tube)
I would think/hope it's a bug, especially with the Rift outfit and all. But like I said, it's good to open a ticket. Personally, when I reported a cosmetic bug on the forums alone, it was many months before it got fixed, long after I had given up and removed it from my hooks (the charm didn't load in at all, it was a dangling little chain with no charm on the end). Granted, it was only a charm and not a full blown cosmetic, but it was from the paid Rift and I used it on most of my hooks so I was really bummed that it was completely broken.
You can also open up a bug report on the forums to make sure you're using all possible avenues for getting this addressed. You never know what will reach the necessary eyes quickest.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815051#Comment_3815051
Is it hard to open a locker or kick a gen? How can you kick a gen if it has no progress which requires a survivor to work on it which it's the survivors Input or ill be more straight forward what skill does opening a locker or kicking a gen takes from the killer to get free informstion?
So it's not about activation via killer input, it's about the killer 'earning' the perk. Which would probably in your opinion require interacting with survivors, yes?
But if the killer is not finding survivors, how are they going to 'earn' the aura reveal that helps them find survivors?
There's more to kicking a gen than just "a survivor worked on it." The killer has to take the time to kick the gen in the first place, and time is more precious to a killer than to survivors. Also, killers are limited to how many times they can kick a single generator, so if there's not much progress on it they have to choose whether it's worth kicking for the possible aura read, because there's no guarantee they will see an aura after kicking the gen.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814991#Comment_3814991
I cannot understand why they won't do this. People have been suggesting it for years. It's impossible to manually fix every spot where a player can trap another player, so why not stop griefing at the source?
They seem weirdly fixated on keeping the ability for killers to bodyblock survivors at endgame collapse, but if that's their deciding factor, they can just disable the feature in EGC once the game's on a reasonable timer anyway. Otherwise, there is no reason I can fathom to allow players who are clearly not playing the game to be obstacles for players that are playing the game.
^ This. Body blocking a player for a long period of time before the EGC starts needs to be fixed. If an AFK crow has popped up then a momentary loss of collision (either for a certain amount of time or distance traveled) is not an unreasonable ask. Whether body blocked by a killer or teammate, it is an unpleasant experience and the only answer being "well, take a video and report it in-game and also with a ticket" is a terrible answer that a lot of players can't do and doesn't solve the actual problem, anyway.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814988#Comment_3814988
I guess devs should change how rift fragmetns gets. So you can only take them for challenges and remove part when you passivly get them for playing. So if someone doesnt want to get anything from Rift no one forced them to take it. It solves every problem.
remove part when you passivly get them for playing
I think the majority of players do not want that. I certainly don't. You are "fixing" a problem that most people don't consider a problem by making the Rift grind worse. And if you usually like the Rift, just not this one, then you're hurting your future self as well.
It solves every problem.
Again, it solves nothing. It's just creating a problem and making things worse for the majority of players.
Hopefully this suggestion wasn't serious, but if it was, let's just nip it in the bud here. Most people are not averse to getting free stuff they won't use. This is mostly a you problem, and an adjustment of attitude would be better than messing with everyone else's gaming experience.
Edit: I should point out that the devs only recently added over 100 levels to the Rift that reward Bloodpoints, which is only obtainable by earning Rift fragments through playtime. It is unlikely they would then take that away.
Also, if what you were trying to say is that people have to manually accept the passively earned Rift fragments, that would be both silly and inconvenient. It's an extra unnecessary step, and anyone who earns fragments but forgets to accept them will be rightfully annoyed at the end of the Rift. It would make a headache for the devs/support staff. Again, most people aren't averse to getting free stuff, even if they won't use it.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814972#Comment_3814972
But there is no option not get this garbage skins. To sell them or just hide entierly, so any time you try to switch cosmetic your eyes would be bleed out by see this ugly abominations from current free rift and only way to safe yourself its just not play until rift pass is over (and thats not a good option)
That's…. an extreme take.
I've earned all the Rifts since the very first one. I own tons of cosmetics I will never use because I find them ridiculously ugly. They do not cause my eyes to bleed or my eternal soul to burst into flames. I care a lot about design and aesthetics, those are part of my background and something I can't stop myself from critiquing when I see them, so if I can survive BHVR's history of poor Rift rewards, anyone can.
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I mean, they're free. And you get them for a lot cheaper than what they would cost with iri shards alone. If you don't like them, you don't have to grind for them and you don't have to use them if you do earn them.
The paid Rift is full of licensed content. Those have to be behind a paywall because they are licensed.
I've seen many Rifts where I wasn't impressed by anything on offer. And then there have been other Rifts that I thought were great. That's just how it is, you'll like some things, you'll dislike others.
@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814957#Comment_3814957
There is 2 problems here. There is 0 good skins in free rift (that was never happened before) and second pay rift is also subjective cause your opinion on it depends only on "are you Castelvania fan or not" so if not this skins is also being mediocre for you.
depends only on "are you Castelvania fan or not" so if not this skins is also being mediocre for you.
I'd say the skins are objectively high quality. I'm not a Castlevania fan in that I've never played the games (except Bloodstained, which is a spinoff and not featured in DbD), I have no feelings towards the series one way or the other, but that doesn't make the skins any less impressive in terms of their appearances. Many of the Castlevania cosmetics in the Rift seem to be unlinked, making them valuable to players who enjoy mixing and matching pieces.