Toblerone007
Toblerone007
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Both proposed changes are great imo.
One thing with DS though is it's a flat nerf - no compromise whatsoever. I do think they should have tried to work in Scott Jund's idea of timer extension when ACTUALLY getting tunnelled. Not that it's the end of the world as is just would of been nice.
What I can say is the meta will definitely move away from DS. It's not feasable to not touch a generator for 60 seconds. I am very glad that the meta will change though it was getting very stale. Killers I would expect BT to fully replace DS in builds. I predict we'll be seeing BT picked by every survivor these days which is also less abusable than ds which is great.
OoO change is also very good. I really like the idea of being able to identify killer perks for being the object of obsession. It will actually have greater benefit in solo q while also allowing swf teams to tell other players what perks are being run by the killer. It is also not stupidly oppressive to killers like the current version is against swf. Great change.
My feedback to the developers already is to continue this attitude of proposing changes to the community. I really feel like they've caught on and are starting to metamorphisise into an actual multiplayer game developer. Good time to be alive.
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You said to me a couple days ago 'can you read.' I'll be civil though. I do want to see this game achieve proper balance.
EDIT: I also find it uncanny how privileged you feel about BHVR introducing a change based on community request. It's your money they want. You have the power as the consumer. They should be shining your shoes. Take a look at the osrs community. One day of BHVR and there would be riots in falador for a week and reeeing on reddit. This is what the community should expect and nothing less.
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The 'just do bones' argument to noed at when it's mostly picked at low ranks and mostly performs best at the lower ranks. I genuinely believe it is a big contributor to the player retention issue with dbd. Up there with camping and tunnelling. Can't expect newer players to keep playing and learning the obscure totem spawns. Too much for little gain.
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@[Deleted User] said:
His attack is an area of effect attack, that's why you can down two or more survivors in a single Demon Strike. So it has a bigger hitbox.
I've never played against a lot of Onis because for some reason nobody plays him on my server. But as an Oni main myself I always feel the kanabo clips through a lot of things due to autoaim and I get hits that look reaaaally weird even on my PoV.
The best example I can think of is one of the pallets on the top floor of The Game. If there is a set of staircases next to it you can actually jump through the gap and still hit a survivor even though on your camera you fell down and hit a wall (it's a veeery nasty hit, I wish I had recorded the last time I got it). Filler pallets on Autohaven are also easy to see this.
Yep aware it's AoE but it's good to hear even from killer side it can look very weird. I just posted to make sure it's not just me. I just don't know how to improve running an Oni when the hits are so haphazard. The flipside has happened too where I thought a hit should of paid but didn't except definitely occurs much less often than the former.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
Either you nerf meta perks or you buff non-meta perks.
That's the only way to encourage different loadouts.
Also basic game mechanics need to change. Because of the basic gameplay design (bust gens to escape, hook survivors to kill them, looping/camping/slugging as the main way to gain time advantage) perks, items and abilities that affect gen speed, chase and hooking/slugging are going to be more powerful bu nature.
Without chanting these two things meta will always be as stale and stagnant as it has been for the last 4 years.
100% agree with you about the basic mechanics being the reason. Some perks even if they doubled the stats (ie dark sense) would still not be meta because they're simply never more viable than BT if it's timer was halved for example. Game mechanics have to change if other perks would be encorperated into the meta.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1911751#Comment_1911751
Can't agree. Right now the approach of a lot of people is 'have someone engage the killer in a chase while the others repair gens'. making gentime take longer wouldn't make that any better. On the contrary, it would make it worse as people would be even more focused on repairing gens quickly, so more purple toolboxes BNPs, etc.
If my suggestion where to be implemented obviously wouldn't work with current balance. I was just saying that in order for the meta to move away from regression builds on killer and anti-snowball builds for survivor there would have to be more killers actually spending more time chasing.
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I think making the main objective of completing generators take longer and in turn provide higher incentive for killers to take chases instead of having those macro focused games. Right now I think split generator completion ends game super quickly which in turn forces killer to only go for plays that guarantee a hit. ie hook saves.
EDIT: To answer you last sentance: the only way is simply to release stronger perks or nerf the existing ones. If they're the best perks in the game they will be picked the highest no matter what other options there are.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906977#Comment_1906977
No. Any DC is cause for concern. That player is clearly not in a good head space and probably needs some empathy.
Same on the flipside?
I see laughing and hysterics im videos of both roles for a dc. Humiliation is something socially everyone avoids but jumps on the bandwagon when it's somebody elses expense. It's human nature. Do you ever feel bad when a survivor that dcd cos you didn't read appendix B properly on the survivor rulebook? It's funny like an RQ is funny in any multilayer game. Fact of life.
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All of this I've experienced too. Unfortunately Nurse isn't exclusive to issues and these things happen not crazy often (like if this were rockstar would be patched out within the week but I digress). Luckily these bugs were like 1/20 games for me which isn't too shabby for BHVR standards.
At least with pallet stunning nurse is so rare that it becomes a glaring issue. Though I've pallet saved on nurse a few times and she hasn't taken the stun and walked off after it made the stun sfx. So bloody buggy.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I guess its quite a bunch of negative things that piled up - the lackluster Halloween-"Event", the Advent Calender and then the Chapter and all of it had a really negative vibe.
Let alone that the Twins were not ready on Release and you had to wait two weeks until all features were implemented. And lets not forget, before the Twins, BHVR released one of their best Killers (in fact, the whole year was full of good Killers, but Blight was exceptionally good with being a strong and rewarding Killer who is also fun to play against).
Kind of a letdown when after Blight, they basically bring the complete Opposite. But I dont think if I want to call Twins weak, because there are people who get them to work (e.g. Dowsey had a Streak of 200 4Ks in a row), and you dont get that by luck.
But for me, I dont really like the Twins, I prestiged them not long ago, but it is kinda annoying that most of the gameplay is done with Victor. And since they can camp so easily (which is an oversight, seriously, the Devs should have known that Killers with built-in Insidious are not healthy), I was almost at the point to just suicide against a Twins-player, because I had a streak of like 5 or 6 Twins who just camped and slugged after the Unhook some time ago. Meanwhile, I went against two Blights today and both games were fun.
On release I recall a similar experience on camping twins and even made a thread about the camping and tunnelling potential on the this killer. It felt exactly like that - an oversight. I remember on the PTB watching some streams and you see everyone on the PTB isn't playing like an ######### degenerate. They need to. They managed to tell BHVR about the locker abuse but nobody tested out the camping. They got fully released then the sadistic gremlins started playing them. The rest is history lol
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@Thanotos_Omega said:
See if i could copy over the general concept of exhaustion, rename the new one "Second chance" and apply it to DT UB Deliverance and BT, and give it a permanent cool down so you can only use one of those perks per match, then make sure exhaustion addons ect don't effect it, and add the tool tips to the reworked second chance perks
Nice idea to combat ds+unbreakable. I don't think BT falls under this category you could imagine what will happen once the killer knows BT isn't available anymore. The perk serves it's purpose fair.
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A very aggressive form of Hit Detection and hit validation. I would put the killers latency available to all players before match Start. Then give players to option to display framerate and ping on the HUD.
My approach to hit validation will be referenced to the server ticks at 0ms and the player with the best ping wins out with dedicated hits but players can see their ping at all times. The killers client no longer calculates the hit. It's completely calculated by the server as is survivor calculated interactions like grabbing in vaults. Therefore killers will adapt by swinging later and survivors will drop pallets earlier if they have higher ping.
As for swings looking like they miss I'll make max range lunges from Freddy for example speed him up faster than the killers with longer weapons (just the animation - all lunges will be the same length in terms of their slashbox ) So killers like bubba will look the same max range lunge and pig will look faster so you actually see the weapon make contact with your model.
I would put a ######### end to all those clips that look like the swing should of missed. Then market the game to be an intensive skill based game like for honor by revamping the ranking system with a leaderboard. I would introduce a rank of the 0.1% best players that lobby for long times for high level games. Like challenger in LoL then a bell curve of ranks. There would be a leaderboard of mmr for all killers and an overall for both survivor and killer.
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Moving on from stealth because that is actually subjective but I guarantee the majority of long time players prefer chase but I digress.
I do want you to elaborate on "infinite". Infinites were back in the day where there was no entity blocker and no bloodlust rendering it impossible to actually hit a survivor. I think you mean good loopable tiles. Because you can buy 30+ seconds and force BL 3 if they commit does not equal infinite. Yes you do lose games if you over commit on these strong tiles but where's the competition if everything was guaranteed for the killer?
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@Pulsar said:
Because he is.
Demo suffers from something unique. He can do everything, but he isn't particularly good at anything. He is stuck being either bad at worst or mediocre at best because of it. This also affects his pick rate. If you want someone with a ranged attack, why play Demo when you can play Deathslinger, Huntress or Freddy? Want stealth? Why not Myers, GhostFace or Wraith? Easy map traversal? Spirit, Billy, Blight and Oni.
As for your points, I'll address them.
- His Shred is easily baitable and is pretty punishing. It also SUCKS on Console, which is where I play.
- Portals do offer map traversal, but they can be removed. They also give a huge notification that you are using them AND they glow.
- His tracking is decent, but again, it's only when touching the Portal and tracking without means to capitalize is meaningless.
- He is good with STBFL.
- His stealth is REALLY bad. Only really bad Survivors will EVER be surprised by him. He gives not one, not two, but THREE warning signs that he's near. Map wide notification that he is using a Portal, Portal glows and his stomping.
- He isn't map dependent. That is true.
Demo needs a total redesign. Not only is he mediocre at best, but he is boring to play. He could've been so interesting, he does so much in ST. Have him able to pull Survivors into the Upside-Down. Have his Portals expand to corrupt the surrounding area. Let him pull generators into the Upside-Down. Do something to make him unique.
You made an excellent argument. Those are some real interesting ideas would love to see taking survivors to the upside down to a more favourable hook. I don't think stealth should have ever been put in the kit it's too conflicting with his very loud ambience.
I do think he is underestimated but I can understand why people don't want to pick a killer that is fairly difficult but not as rewarding as others. Hopefully a buff can be made to him and I hope it's to do with the portals being more practical as well as some better add-on options.
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@Clevite said:
Thank goodness you showed up here with your 12 posts to free us of the yoke of survivor expectations.
We have all been anxiously awaiting your arrival.
I , now, can play killer with a full arsenal!!
Ahahahaha. Yes I now have all five pieces of exodia. OBLITERATE!
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Overall I like them. And balance wise it's been an eye for an eye when it comes to both sides. Survivors have to deal with dead zones and unsafe pallets. And killers with infinites created by breakable walls and better stealth.
You gotta understand that for the survivor mains. The stealth eye does not equal the deadzone increase eye. I don't mind unsafe pallets if they're equal opportunity to play and the killer has good ping. They're undoubtedly better for killer now which isn't a bad thing per se but to say survivors have made equal benefit is not true. Majority doesn't want stealth to be a selling point of the map. It's all about chase. What infinites were created by the way? I've played all of them and bloodlust is enough to catch the God window groaning storehouse for example. Suffocation pit main can be bloodlusted but the centre of that map is still pretty nasty for survivor.
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A perfect release for those players who practice this game a lot. It's rewarding putting the time in on both sides. Always options in chase and it does feel like the better player this game wins. I agree tinkerer is quite boring to deal with on him because he isnt very loud but I take Blight any day over some of the more boring doomed if you do doomed if you don't killers. Interactive for both sides and exactly what makes a good killer for me. Hopefully we see some more simple but effective designs in future releases from the great feedback I see everywhere about him (fix the pov though). I think once the pov is correct he will be picked much more which is awesome for everyone.
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I genuinely would love to know the statistic of DS being run and percentage of those games it actually being used. I swear if you're not trying to abuse it you barely use it as much as you would kindred, bond, inner strength and other good perks. Hence why I don't run it. That said, there are definitely times where you wish you or your teammate were running it.
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@bjorksnas said:
It sadly doesn't
I feel like it should since thanatophobia is fear a death and someone is literally dead but no logic is gone for gameplay sake
You can't be scared of death if you're already dead. ;)
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1) How would you implement that? I don't play console but you can't increase sensitivity so you can flick?
2) It's not really feasible to disable a killer cross-platform because you still have full functionality playing survivor on console. Framerates can be poor sometimes but only solution there is to join the master race.
3) MMR isn't going to be a solution that will help you with your issue because the best nurse players are going to place high mmr. Unless you're expecting to place much lower than I don't get your point. You can still play survivor very well on console.
God nurse can be frustrating but do remember these players have usually invested a lot of time to get it to a level where they never miss.
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Your examples are inevitable and nothing will truly stop dc's and true afk. That is a MCote solution if you're telling me to go play civ 6. Lol.
You can write a program to players macroing and leaving the game for half the day and racking up thousands of shards. You're underestimating the resources required to do this. I do agree with you it's not the biggest issue but do remember BHVR are a team of different roles. The balance team aren't programmers. Therefore you can tackle these issues simultaneously.
Have a nice day.
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@ProfGameAndTalk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903900#Comment_1903900
Ok, that makes sense. Thank you. I do notice that I need to pull off the chase when I feel the survivor is toying with me. Perhaps I need to pull off the chase sooner.
That's a great level headed response to critique. I'm impressed. Not usually how people deal with criticism here.
As for the difference gameplay wise. Tunnelling (now true tunnelling) has zero interaction from the survivor. If somebody has unhooked you and you get the down before the survivor can get to any structure it is impossible to deal with.
The term 'gen rushing' used to be a term years ago when survivors used to spend a huge amount of time mucking around. The modern game meta now is to be efficient with your time doing the objective or buy time for the team (healing, chasing and taking hits). The difference here is you can interact with a survivor team doing gens if not being chased. You can go patrol the generator and get survivors off them. I'd suggest watching some youtube vids on how to macro manage a game as killer. There is great material from very mature killer players and you will learn how to improve gen defense instead of posting on the forums about gen rushing. It's a dated term and really doesn't exist anymore. In saying that I think it's fair to call a 4 man swf squad all bringing bnps and running prove thyself efficiently is pretty much impossible to defend.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1907096#Comment_1907096
there is nothing they can do about that, how you deny macro? is on them not on the devs especially when as he said very small community anyway-
Ban it. Yes it is on the devs 100%. Go have a look on the old school runescape subreddit and look at a developer team that are wrapped around the finger of their players. Macroing is a huge problem in that game and the developers there have made a program that bans macros/bots on a game engine that is twenty years old. This game is on UE4 and has probably the best libraries for detecting macro use. I reckon it wouldn't take a day for them to program macro detection.
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@DaDuck said:
I don't really understand the problem with these afk killers.. Sure it's boring but the game only takes around 5 min and you get free BP and maybe a free item.
Don't know how much time you have on your hands. It shouldn't be hard to understand but I'll give you my fleshed out reasoning.
I work a 10-12 hour day and come home and after dinner and a shower I play Dead by Daylight with about 2 hours to play before I need to sleep for work the next day. I've decided to play the survivor role and am waiting in lobby for about 5-10 minutes. I then get placed into the game and start working on a generator. Nobody has been injured yet and I pop the gen. I see in the distance a macro killer with a couple survivors farming points off them. I then have to hold m1 until I'm running out of the exit gates for a good 5 minutes at least. I lobby again and have to wait another 5-10 minutes and before even getting into my first actual match I've already wasted half an hour.
Nobody cares about bp/items that is an infinite resource. My time is finite.
It's only fair they roll out punishment for wasting other peoples time macroing. Time is money.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
You don't really know the community that well if you think a survey where you can really give detailed answers would be anything but a huge waste of time.
The amount of complaining about non-issues in this community is staggering.
Agreed. Not the communities fault for lack of transparancy with players though.
OP I didn't find the survey biased. You just didn't get the questions worded the way that allows you to vent your frustrations with the game. There was some excellent questions regarding some genuine forward thinking for the game's future. Better tutorials, QoL changed like perk presets, Casual/Competitive queue, communication and different gamemodes. Stuff like this will make the game so much better and it will provide them a quick metric if its what the players actually want in the game.
I too was frustrated with all the questions regarding merch and skins. I honestly couldn't care less and wasn't honest about how they can make more money off me personally. Though the fact they were asking questions about stuff people have suggested forever and have never been implemented does give me hope for this game and I genuinely want this game to increase its playerbase AND maintain it.
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Both. Each player needs to be able to equally have opportunity to play and win the game. The best killers in terms of fun and fairness are the ones that perform well in chase from exceptional micromanagement of their power like Blight for example. As well as being able to control generator completion which Blight is also very good at. Blight is an example of a good 1v1 and 1v4 killer. Take deathslinger as another example. 1v1 he excels at and is very easy to micromanage. Bait m2 and zone until you get the m1 or m2 if they take the window vault. Therefore he is unbalanced in the 1v1 however he has no tools in kit to control generators so 1v4 is almost impossible if survivors are doing generators exclusively.
That is why I say balance needs to be for both aspects because there needs to be opportunities for both parties to perform in the 1v1 and macromamaging the 1v4 as killer shouldn't be impossible.
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Charge time add-ons have always been problems for one down killers. Instasaw billy was a similar experience to topknot Oni. It should be nerfed it does not feel possible to get away from an oni charging towards you, resetting and charging point blank.
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You can play the game any way the game permits you to play. You can choose to do whatever you want about DS and no survivor can tell you othewise.
What I will say about the BM chat is that this behaviour exists in any multiplayer game in which you compete against other players. If I have a negative KD in CSGO - I'm going to get flamed for it. If I feed in League of Legends - I'm going to get flamed for it. If I don't pick a support in Overwatch when the team needs it - I'm going to get flamed for it. All these games I mentioned have in game chats.
Count your blessings that you don't have to deal with actual voice chat or text chat in game. Have you played Friday the 13th? Imagine playing Jason and having a youngster tell you that they have had sex with your mother? All these threads about other players behaviour really has to stop because it will never change. Human nature says it will not change.
My advice is to click next match before reading that text box as much as your insecurities tell you to. It will make you feel much better. Type ggwp and go next brother!
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903806#Comment_1903806
I agree, Red Tombstone is fine, but tombstone Piece is not, if you play your cards right you can literally kill someone off before the first gen even pops, Its crazy powerful and Im surprised that one hasn’t been looked at, killing someone off at the start of the game is huge for killer and this add on lets a myers do it rather easily.
Not to detract from you're very correct statement but do remember iri + head huntress is still in the game...
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@6yXJI0 said:
Twins are strong, but their best playstyle is to CAMP and SLUG massively. Not all love this kind of gameplay. She is boring on both sides. Killers and Survivors.
This. There are great videos on the twins played optimally which is exactly that. Camp the hook, tunnel without bt and then slug. Move to the next survivor with the new and quick pressure you have produced. It's not fun nor difficult to do.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903650#Comment_1903650
2 Cleanses is not always escapable. Depends a lot on the skill level of the killer and survivors.
There are times when no Undying and just Ruin is enough to kill everyone. I played a match earlier today with a Freddy using Ruin Undying Tinker and we couldn't even find the totem (Midwich hahah) and we couldn't even finish a single gen before all of us got killed. But Freddy didn't even need Undying we couldn't even deal with the first totem and we couldn't pop any gens because he was always there when he needed to be.
Yep exactly. That's a great thing if the match is dependant on skill of the killer and the survivors. There was once upon a time before undying was released and ruin was never run with it. Ruin by itself can provide huge value for one perk slot.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903522#Comment_1903522
The thing is the chances they made were very good to other hex totems. I genuinely believe we will see more lullaby and devour hope games because of this change.
I would agree the nerf isn't what I would've done but the change they made was actually a healthy one for the game. The games where 4/5 totems needed to be cleansed were stupid and pretty much a guaranteed lose while playing solo q. If they made Undying two totems I wouldn't have been against it.
I will say though the probability thing can't be used to judge escapes. Other factors like how long it takes you to find and cleanse totems, whether ruin lasts the whole game, the map and who the killer is effects all the escape rates.
Yeah my overall opinion is it's a good change. I too hope to see some devour games ran with undying.
Yes definitely it was a healthy change to game. Even against swf the time it buys is uncanny if you have had to cleanse all totems to remove ruin.
Now the calculations I made were to try and show people how often the unfair part of undying occurs. Yes it's not a metric to gauge an escape rate but it definitely plays a part in the escape rate of ruin + undying games. I was trying to point out that the killer complaints about it being overnerfed are fairly valid because two undying totem cleanse games were very escapeable in my opinion.
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I heard but I have no source that hit validation doesn't kick in until 150+ ms ping from the killer. This killer could have fallen shy of that bracket but still be enough latency between you two to look like that? Purely speculation but that hit should of 100% missed from your perspective and I hope one day this is a thing of the past. We can only hope.
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It's bad design that this is possible in the game. Unfortunately, there have been many people provide potential solutions, however, they always have a flaw that is abusable by survivor. If any solution is put in the game and is abusable - it WILL be abused. Take a look at the hook proximity timer they tested. Survivors could run the killer around the hooked survivor and have two players complete all the generators with time to spare to save the hooked survivor too.
That said, a simple solution would be to compensate the camped survivor which would incentivise the killer to not camp because they're going to lose the game as well as have their target be fully rewarded.
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@EvilJoshy said:
I fully agree. The devs need to stop catering to new players and tell them to git gud. This is what happens when you hold someone's hand for too long. Or when you start handing out participation trophies because "everyone is special". Your just hiding them from reality. The longer you put it off the worse it's gonna be when it finally hits.
@CashelP14 said:
Most survivors are bad at the game and that's why playing solo q against Ruin + Undying was too strong. It's why against 1000 hour swf teams it wasn't as op because they were all good players.
The devs shouldn't balance the game around the top 1%. The chances they've made to Undying were actually good and breath new life into other hex totems that weren't used.
@SilentHillOnDvD said:
People need to stop listening to survivors who whine about ruin undying. They make it seem like it's impossible to win when killers run these perks. I'm a killer Main and beat this combo in solos! This combo only seems op because you have survivors who hide and do nothing whole game or leave gens when they hear the TR.
https://youtu.be/wzanAto9XLU
Not necessarily cater but make the experience the most fun possible - yes. The reason being player retention. Old ruin was changed for this exact reason. Bad against survivors who hit the hex skill check and stomp new players who cannot. You'll find that other games that players compete (Counter-Strike, League of legends, Overwatch) will balance to the highest level of player because anything that gives anybody an unfair edge will be abused and you lose that true ability to compete.
Ruin + Undying is strong in any part of the playerbase because no matter what it always increases the time ruin stays in the game. New ruin is much much stronger than old ruin in the highest level of dbd because the killer can pressure survivors off generators to receive instant value and time saves.
Was it overpowered? I'd argue no, however, the RNG element of cleansing up to 4 totems was very mundane to me and almost guaranteed a loss because of the time waste. The probabilities are as follows:
(1/2)^1 = 1/2 Games of ruin + undying cleansing the undying totem first time.
(1/2)^2 = 1/4 Games of Ruin + Undying cleansing ruin twice.
(1/2)^3 = 1/8 Games of ruin + undying cleansing ruin thrice.
(1/2)^4 = 1/16 Games of ruin + undying cleansing ruin four times.
As you can see the games where you cleansing ruin more than twice is fairly unlikely and when you cleanse less than 3 times I'd say both sides have a fair chance to escape or 4k. This is why killers think it's been overnerfed and I agree it should be two totems. However, everyone surely can agree that cleansing 3 or more ruin totems is getting way too much value out of undying especailly when no player has control over this.
I am always an advocate for RNG elements to be stamped out of dbd where possible and this nerf has done exactly that. That said, I do agree it should be two totems post nerf.
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@onemind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1900812#Comment_1900812
Me who runs bamboozle
Laughs in screeching noises
Very good point. OP if the bubba has Bamboozle make sure to sidestep the window and not loop as you will be forced to drop pallet. Bamboozle only blocks one window therefore best course is to sidestep to another tile with a good window. If no pallet and no window then tough luck my friend. ;)
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901274#Comment_1901274
Not worth it? It’s good to warn against Trapper and Hag traps, too.
Yeah I'd say so. I barely see it in my games and never use it myself. Just much better options imo.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901929#Comment_1901929
You’re right but it’s still enough for the spirit to very easily catch you on sound alone
That is correct but it's not like Iron Will is doing nothing which is why I'm still happy to be running it even though Stridor is in the game.
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To be fair even with Iron Will against Stridor you're still much quieter. Still allows you more room against a spirit in chase surely.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901270#Comment_1901270
A couple of things:
- This thread isn't about camping. There are plenty of those for you to vent your spleen on.
- There is no such thing as an impossible save; you just don't know to do it yet. People get saved from the hook from right under the nose of a face-camping Killer every day. Please don't assume that because YOU can't do it, that it is't possible.
- I think it is hilarious that you are telling us what DbD is "about" when clearly you don't know many things. Tell us o'wise one, what is DbD about? The rest of us being ignorant need you to lift the veil from our eyes.
Really not happy with your response. You'll get nothing further from me.
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@SilentHillOnDvD said:
I play wraith and chase at jungle gyms and unmindgameable pallets, I get tbagged and called a trash killer. I play pyramid and never get tbagged but called boring for playing a strong killer. Survivors only want to play follow the leader, anything other then that needs a nerf and counterplay (even though there's plenty).
Not true! I highly highly encourage strong killers being released. They just have to be high skill ceiling to be strong and provide equal opportunity to outplay. Think oni, Blight etc. Survivors hate doomed if you do doomed if you don't killers like pH, Freddy and deathslinger. Rightfully so. Killer should be rewarded for out playing their opponent and vice versa.
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You'll get an influx of don't care about rank it doesn't matter. While currently true there is no incentive to achieve high ranks doesn't excuse BHVR not being innovative with the ranking system. We're approaching the fifth year and they have only started to tap into the possibilities of a ranked system with mmr and rewards. People say mmr is hard to calculate in a random game like dbd but it's honestly not. Add a mmr score for baiting hits from faking vaults. Baiting a pallet drop and making the killer respect. There are hundreds of skilful interactions like this that should be the metric for high mmr players. This isn't rocket science.
As for the camping there should be some form of compensation because camping is a result of game design having no solution to the problem. If it can be done there's no reason killers won't do it.
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Perk undoubtedly needs to be changed no doubt. The statement of it isn't terribly effective really shows the lackluster understanding of game balance. It's not surprising though because Moris took four years to number change and keys are still untouched. You have to balance to the highest level of play and it's exactly where OoO is overpowered.
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@Momentosis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901072#Comment_1901072
There shouldn't be a notification. This is a horror game after all. Honestly the game would be a lot scarier if they got rid of a lot of things like Hex notifications.
Imagine seeing people start going down with single attacks midway through the game. It'd be an "Wait... what's happening??? Oh ######### it's DH!" kinda moment.
All the information the game is feeding you really takes you out of the horror immersion of the game.
Honestly I'm surprised NOED gets complained about so much. I bring small game every match and pretty much never get hit with NOED. I do bones(yay free points!), help my teammates, and do gens. Escape around 70% of the time. I'm not even that good at the game but I'm not a complete potato that 90% of the playerbase seems to be.
Small game is not worth it once you get to the level that noed is hardly used. The perk has such a high pickrate low/mid rank because it is strong there undoubtedly. People complain about it because it's unfun. Those games where you can't find the hex in time and watch the killer stand in front of the hook. You can't trade 1 for 1 it's either feed or leave. Surely new players want more interaction than that if they're to stay playing dbd.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901029#Comment_1901029
Yes, that is a common argument. It is a wrong-headed argument. That says nothing about whether or not NOED is balanced. The problem is clearly the SURVIVORS who are choosing not to do the bones. Do you see my point? This game is about agency, that of the Killers and the Survivors. Totems are a gamble for BOTH sides. The Killer is gambling away a Perk Slot hoping that his Totem isn't immediately wiped off the map. It is high risk with the potential of high gain. The Survivors who choose not to spend time on Totems (WHICH ARE AN OBJECTIVE) are gambling that diverting all that time to Generators will pay off with a faster exit. Their bet is that there will be no NOED or that they can avoid it anyway. Again, high risk with the potential of high gain.
There is nothing wrong with NOED. There is something wrong with the attitude of most Survivors. I personally suggested that they simply make NOED a base mechanic so that Survivors have no doubt that they should be doing those Bones. :) My suggestion is that it activates once the last Generator is powered and anyone who has not cleansed at least one Totem (lit or unlit) is now Exposed. *Those that did are not. The switch to power the gates, however, is locked down by the Entity for a period of time based on how many Totems are still in play. 5=60 seconds, 4=45 seconds, 3=30 seconds, 2=20 seconds, 1=10 seconds. And of course, going out and killing the now lit NOED will end the negative effects immediately. Personally, I think this would finally make it crystal CLEAR to Survivors that Totems are objectives. But the DEV prefer to let them continue to gamble and then complain that they lost. Funny that. It is just like gamblers I've watched lose everything in Vegas. They complain and complain and complain, when they knew which bets were safe and which were not.
That's all well and good but the token rework suggestions do still benefit the killer in the same way of how many bones were completed. Some games that obscure totem is not found and noed exists infinitely. Your suggestion won't work because the whole premise of noed is the fact it's also backed up by camping and an impossible save. This is a deterrent, it's anticlimatic and not what dbd is about.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1900989#Comment_1900989
Thats like me saying if you cant evade NOED then you dont deserve to escape
It's not hard to get a hit with the bloodlust part of noed. You're almost tier 1 bloodlust before the chase has started. It takes seriously good setups to not go down to a competent user of noed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1900890#Comment_1900890
It is different than OoO.
What you are saying is that essentially, experienced players know how to play around it and completely deny the Killer from using it but newer players do not. That isn't a problem. Newer players also can't loop as well as experienced one's, should we give them a handicap? No, of course not, because they will learn as they play and they will improve.
OoO is a fine perk when taken with the Solo Q perspective, but is gets nutty when you bring SWF into the mix. It offers an extremely powerful effect for Survivors with zero downsides.
That is exactly the problem. It's the inverse of OoO. Strictly speaking of balance noed is fine. OoO is not.
I'm purely speaking in terms of fun and interaction at low rank games which comes down to player retention which is undeniably an issue with this game. The stat's don't lie. I don't want noed fully gone but a rework is definitely in order. You cannot expect low rank to cleanse totems and be punished for doing the main objective. Introducing a token system for noed related to remaining totems is a way that will incentivise players to not leave and try to make the save because it isn't infinite use.
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I like your solution however I don't think people would ever run it. I like it probably cos I'm a firm believer that it's unhealthy for the game also. It's not a perk designed for good players. The inherit problem of 'just do bones' is that the perk isn't good high level. People actually do the bones. SWF do the bones. Therefore, you see noed one in 10 games and it's whatever does not help the killer much.
At low/mid ranks is where it shines. And shine bright it does like a puckered butthole in the sky shining a bright beam into your eyes. You can't expect the new player to do bones and make it to endgame. It's purely up to chance if they find the hex in time or not for their teammate to die. That is why it's very mundane to deal with because a totem spawn that the killer has no control over has determined the end game for everybody. Then theres the games the survivors do well and all collapse at the end due to faster killer with instadown cos we made it to endgame. Endgame should be intense but this is not the way to do it and I'm sure they will retain more players after the next chapter releases if it got a rework that better reflects the intergrity of the game.
The best idea I've seen so far is to make a token system reflective of dull totems + hex totems remaining on the map. perhaps make them all hex's. Each totem equals a token which is consumed upon each down they get. This appeases the people who don't want the change because it will stop people cleansing dulls as well as remaining a strong end game last stand from the killer. The whole premise of it being infinite is what makes people leave people to die when there should be so much more game left to game. This idea makes it possible to juggle the hook if you have enough hooks left (ie survivor has done well) and allows the killer to close out a game if people are on their last hook (killer has performed well). People who dispute that and continue to say 'just do bones' either use it themselves or haven't read my argument about its effect on low rank trials.
tl;dr You cannot rely on low rank players to do bones which is where the perk has it's higher pickrate. Saying just do bones is as ignorant as saying OoO statistically is balanced because of escape rate across all matches.
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@crowbarman said:
Noed is the only thing keeping dull totems around after 4.5. If they nerf noed then you might as well just ignore every dull dotem.
Then make a compromise that makes dull totems need to be cleansed. Someone suggested I saw the other day to put tokens on remaining dull totems which equates to how many noed hits you get. Otzdarva's suggestion was a token system too. The infinite hits is just nuts against low rank survivors. Noed doesn't necessarily need a nerf because it's not unbalanced in the meta. Just incredibly unfun at low/mid level. A rework would be a much better solution. There is a player retention issue with this game because there are a lot of unfun elements which should be stamped out.
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@Trashmaster said:
Honestly tinkerer was overbuffed, the 85% was already usable (the undetectable was too short though) and now it is actually top-tier for most killers
I agree it is a little over-buffed. It's not crazy good like ruin/undying but sometimes the killer gets freebies on another player accidentally. It's a perk that doesn't require the killer to do anything as well. I like the perk though but sometimes it just destroyes my team purely because of the perk and not the killer.