Timeman63
Timeman63
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I would definitely appreciate some tweaks that make Clown more interesting and fun to play, but it's definitely a tightrope walk in balancing him. A good Clown can end chases faster than you might expect. If the Clown you're up against knows what they're doing, unless you are perfect and run the strongest perks, you are going to lose the chase even if you never run into a single gas cloud (since by evading a well placed gas cloud that was tossed at a vault or pallet, Clown will still gain distance on you). Even though Clown in theory has no map pressure, him ending chases quickly means less time chasing (obviously) and more time patrolling generators.
Because of this, the devs have to be careful in whatever they are planning to change about Clown, since making him both strong in chases and good at map pressure may lead to a Freddy-like syndrome where he can feel very oppressive. I also hope they don't dumb down Clown's mechanics, since many players mistakenly believe that throwing bottles directly at survivors is the correct way to use his power, when usually it's better to throw them in front of survivors. I am curious to see what becomes of the rework, since I like seeing competent Clown players and would like Clown to shine more.
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@Blueberry said:
As other have said ad nauseum already, it exists to fix a problem but ends up creating a problem just as big if not bigger itself.
The perk needs deactivation conditions for progressing the game, IE gens/totems/healing etc. If you're progressing the game then you aren't being tunneled. The perk currently goes way, way past its anti-tunnel purpose and has become just a 1 minute immunity that is highly abusable.
Just saying to slug them is being either extremely disingenuous or simply not experienced enough with the game to understand what that fully entails. If you leave them they Unbreakable and if you pick them up you eat a DS. Either one of those scenarios loses you the game against good survivors. You cannot afford to waste time downing a survivor to have them just get away with zero time gained, killers simply do not have the time for that.
Every 1 second you waste as a killer on one survivor is 3 seconds gained by the survivors as the other three are on gens. So even if we assume you are an amazing killer and get them down in <20 seconds, that just gave the other survivors 60 seconds on gens..for free if you leave him and he has Unbreakable..or you eat a DS stun to lose those 20 seconds AND whatever extra time it takes you to then find and chase someone else. This is a massive amount of time lost for one survivor...now stick that whole scenario on 3 others as well...
Losing that time if the killer is trying to tunnel someone is totally fine, the issue and why people are upset is when you get forced to lose that time even if you don't want to tunnel because they jump on a gen/totem etc progressing the game and you are forced into a lose/lose scenario from them using it aggressively.
Make it an anti-tunnel perk, not a 1 minute immunity perk. This is all people are asking for.
Took the words out of my mouth, really. I'm not like those that want Decisive Strike removed from the game or completely reworked, but to say that Decisive Strike is completely fine at this point is just dishonesty. DS functioning as an anti-tunneling perk, we all accept that this is how it should function, but to function as an anti-momentum perk is ludicrous, as many Killers live or die on their ability to snowball. If a perk punishes a player for playing too well, there is undeniably an issue. It would be like getting a high killstreak in a multiplayer shooter and having the game "reward" you by having the other players deal more damage to you.
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Blood Echo is great on Legion, since injuring survivors is very easy and it's great to not have to worry about exhaustion perks on injured Survivors. I almost never take it off since it makes capitalizing on injuries that much easier.
Deathbound takes a little more work to use properly, but I've found that it makes Survivors either stay grouped up, making them easier Feral Frenzy targets, or they make more mistakes due to the Oblivious Status. I don't recommend running it all the time, but it's great for messing with Survivors.
If you don't have a problem with running another Hex perk either in combination with Ruin or replacing it, I think Devour Hope can be a scary perk on Legion. If you earn enough tokens, the Survivors now have to worry about getting moried along with the pressure of Deep Wounds and being injured in general.
Finally, I think the upcoming Thanatophobia will also be quite useful on Legion. Contrary to what people tend to say on the forums, Thanatophobia was and is still going to be good at its intended purpose: tricking Survivors into healing more often. Since the generator repair slowdown will be difficult to ignore, Survivors will be inclined to heal at any given opportunity, which also happens to be Legion's main source of pressure.
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Hag, unfortunately. I actually do like playing as her, as she's by far the most unique killer in the game and plays unlike any of the others. That said, she devours solo players like me for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert, and it's really frustrating sometimes.
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@dspaceman20 said:
The survivor perks that you suggested giving a buff are really good and potentially change up the meta and for that I applaud you for these welly though out changes. However there are some changes I would make to your suggestions to make it stronger.
Any Means Necessary: they are going to buff this perk to make it good but to add on to the buff I would say make it see the auras of dropped pallets anywhere in the map. That way you could get even more use out off it.
Flip Flop: to make it more viable on top of what is already there we could make it so that you see the auras of hooks when your in the dying state. That way you could make sure your not by the hook and have a greater chance to wiggle off.
Hope: overall I like your hope buff but the fist effect seems a bit overpowered. If a person is running the killer and have hope and the gens get finish they could get a unnecessary speed bost and prolong the chase. I say just make it so that they don't get the haste status effect when they are in a chase.
No Mither: I feel to make this perk better they should make it so that you get the broken status effect when you are hooked for the first time and not when your injured.
Second Wind: the buff you suggested is good but I have to ask is it just changing the health state of the survivor your healing or you have to heal them fully? Also decrease the time from 30 seconds to 25 or 27 seconds.
Slippery meat: this perk is also getting a buff, but i feel a better buff would be to take off the bear trap chance, and keep the increase the number of chance you get to unhook yourself, but also increase wiggle speeds by 10 or 5%
Solidarity: This buff to this perk is good and I agree with it but seems a little over powered against killers that can put you into the injured state quickly. So I would say keep your suggestion but make it a token system. Everytime you heal fully with Solidarity you use one token.
Vigil: I would say to buff viglil would be to also include oblivious and exposed status effect but in return lower the percentage from 20 to 15 or 18%
Overall i agree with everything you suggested for the other perks. They are really good and would love to see your approach to killer. There are also a few more perks I would like to see yout suggestions for a buff.
I somehow overlooked that when brainstorming ideas for Hope. Sorry about that. I actually don't think Hope is terrible, but it's an unfortunate case of "Why use this when that exists?".
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@ZCerebrate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194140/suggested-survivor-perk-buffs
I'll give my opinion on each suggestion from the top since I enjoy threads like this:
Any Means Necessary: Probably a bit much considering getting pure value from this against killers who prioritize who “aren’t” kicking pallets to let you use it. Returning even 2~3 pallets already gives it enough value to be run in it’s current form with a 120 second cooldown. Being able to do it 5~6+ before the killer realizes and starting to forced to religiously kick every pallet is a bit much for a single perk slot. Personally, don’t think it’s really in a weak enough spot to warrant a buff (though it definitely isn’t one of the strongest perks either).
Autodidact: Okay with a simple buff like this as this is one of the few perks with a direct downside in using the perk – usually taking too long to get rolling to be worth running and usually just has you nerfed for a bit too long needlessly just to start getting value from it.
Boil Over: That aura block has potential to be incredibly frustrating to play against as a Killer on indoor maps like Lerys where hook spawns are obscured usually (I guess it could promote killer going to find the hook before daring to pick a survivor up). Sabotage teams making use of that information would be hell though, not to mention if they run hook spreading offerings ontop of that.
The buff should be more of a small increase to wiggle out time like 2/3/4% (Since most new players assume that’s what the perk does at first upon reading it anyway) so it would have actual synergy with things like Flip Flop and Breakout. The Boil over indicator would remain but Breakout should also have an indicator for the killer if this buff were to come in so the killer can make an informed decision to drop the survivor earlier against saboteur teams.
Breakdown: Sort of the same issue with Boil Over where making it too strong gives Sabo teams a lot of power to “frustrate” the killers. The proposed change here would be reasonable though and I wouldn’t really mind it from either side to get the perk used a bit more.
Déjà Vu: The bonus bloodpoints “toward” your 8k cap never really sat well with me and would still make it an underused perk once new players realize it’s meaning. If it gave additional stacks much like We’re gonna live forever” for each completed generator that was highlighted and gave a 25% bonus for post-game BP it would be the complimentary “grinding” build especially since it’s a general perk that all new players have access to.
Distortion: Perfectly acceptable buff for me even though I personally “hate” pure stealth playstyles… the perk has it’s informational uses too but there is now a HUGE plethora of things that deplete your stacks quickly that the perk doesn’t really see use. Being able to restore some stacks eventually would make this perk far more powerful than Laurie’s “Lone Survivor” perk which should also be looked at.
Diversion: Adding scratch marks to the “pebble” being thrown is overkill and would devastate most killers new and veteran. Other than that – perfectly okay with removing the TR requirement to charge it and would make the perk far more use able rather than just a meme.
Fixated: Being able to see your own scratch marks is already fairly powerful for stealth feedback which is supposedly the main trade off for having to be healthy to enjoy the speed benefit. Currently this competes against Urban evasion (28.25% → 56.5% movement) vs the 56.5% → 67.8%). Both are popular as is but I would like to see the scratch marks benefit moved to “Lightweight” and just increase the walking speed of Fixated to 75% without the requirement to be “Healthy”.
Flip-Flop: Just to point out the max is 50% of 95% (given they aren’t running Unbreakable, No Mither or Soul Guard) not 100%. So the cap should be 47.5% if you’re balancing it this way. Other than that – I’m fine with it as long as Flip-Flop is announced to the killer with an Icon much like “Boil Over” so they can make an informed decision.
Hope: Probably far too powerful if it came from every generator because most killers wouldn’t realize that slight speed difference for a bit until they’ve already wasted an additional 20~ seconds chasing a survivor who they had no hope of even hitting (if the survivor is competent) as a 115% M1 killer. It’s actually fairly good since it lasts the entire duration of the end game collapse (2 minutes). Would rather see it just outright combined with “No One Left Behind” (and completely reworking that perk into something new) in giving more BP, and altruistic actions being faster since it’s a higher risk “end game” perk. If a survivor decides to make an “End game” build with Adernaline, Wake Up and Hope – it should be possible and rewarding as they’re effectively playing the bulk of the match with a single perk.
Lightweight: The quieter footsteps would be nice but also adds to one of the biggest downsides to the perk – that is not being able to tell if the perk is actually doing anything without Fixated’s effect to see scratch marks you are leaving behind. I would like to see that part of Fixated just moved over here instead to make the perk more cohesive… also it’s a general perk that new survivors have access to teach them about scratch marks through immediate gameplay is health.
Lucky Break: A bit powerful to effect healing speed vs mangled if you’re also removing the duration – one time per match part of it that already completely counters the killer perk Bloodhound. I think the developers want the killer’s perks to overwrite a survivors – look at Iron Will vs Stridor currently where Stridor nulls most of Iron Will’s effectiveness. That said Lucky break should be no longer dropping blood at all UNLESS the killer has the Hemorrhage status effect to make them actually bleed past the perk’s effects to a normal amount of blood. It would still find it’s niche uses combined with other stealthy perks for a build like Iron Will or Off the Record.
Mettle of Man: At this point I would take anything that makes this perk even remotely useable after testing the nerfed version over 20 games. Protection score events are extremely finicky in it’s coding and standing on another survivor’s ass to literally bodyblock a hit should always result in one (It occasionally doesn’t – while standing 10m away just might). People would probably just make use taking hits when a killer picks up the survivor to be more confident in getting perk value later – which I’m perfectly fine with personally to trade free hits and momentum for as a killer but there is a lot of wailing on these forums about Survivors’ second chances so doubt this would be a welcomed change.
No Mither: Actually a reasonable buff for the perk that could be sus’d out by an attentive killer (and enables the other stealthy build as a red herring for No Mither). The broken status should still be visible to other survivors though.
No One Left Behind: Fine with this proposed buff but think it would still be underused if selected at all. Would like to see it just combined with Hope’s effects especially since the Devs “want” End Game Collapse to start and never really intended for the 99% ever door meta that has developed to counter Blood Warden. Would like this perk to just get a full rework into something else.
Pharmacy: Grabbing more than one Green Med Kit from the match seems a bit much – this is already pretty powerful as is but wouldn’t mind the option to hold the action key to “take” the medkit instead of randomly rolling for a different item at first and opting for the med kit later in the match (as needed). Just the choice alone would make the perk worth running for it’s “as the situation develops” type of perk.
Second Wind: Wasn’t entirely sure what you were buffing here since I thought this was already the activation condition of healing another survivor for 1 health state. I guess you just have to finish them rather than do 100% yourself… that’s fair enough considering how people recover and get healed slightly before you get to them.
Honestly I would be okay with the status effect if it had a “held” effect against broken status so it could actually synergism with Deliverance (so after 60s second wind would activate) instead of hoping for a KOBE or being rescued by someone else. It’s fairly niche as it is to take up a perk slot (effect isn’t really strong enough) and can even get countered by having Borrowed Time activated on you that would just eat the heal while you are trying to mend for 12 seconds after running away a bit.
Slippery Meat: Would be okay with this perk just because hook animation mechanics in general are frustrating enough for most survivors that people would run this perk just to help deal with face/hover camping.
Small Game: Also fine with this minor QoL buff – I usually just start looking away from the totem as I’m about to finish breaking it so it’s off cooldown when I go sus out the next totem. It’s not necessary to change it because of that but wouldn’t hurt either.
Sole Survivor: Reminds me of a revised version of the old Left Behind perk combined in. Not opposed to the idea but think it would still be underused because it’s another perk design to approach the match assuming the team will fail.
Solidarity: Might be a bit too powerful of a buff in reversing the match state with a single perk – the real only QoL buff this perk honestly needs is that it ANNOUNCES to your teammate that you are running the perk. Solidarity should also reveal your location to other injured survivors as a reverse empathy when you are injured. So many survivors refusing to take the heal first by spamming shift when they are injured because “They have DS, DH or greeding bloodpoints etc etc” can make the perk more frustrating to use than it should be considering you HAVE to be in a situation where you are both injured, finding the other injured survivor who is usually actively running from you like a flighty cat AND the first to heal them for value.
Up the Ante: Okay with this buff and general rework to Luck – getting more 1% progressions through skill checks can feel slightly rewarding rather than snoozing holding M1 while looking at my other monitor. Not sure if it would really make Stake Out any more used than it is but.
Vigil: Fine with this buff but it shouldn’t have any direct effectiveness against the Hindered given it’s integral to Clown’s kit and even Freddy to an extent (Plus some addons like Huntress or Blight etc. It’ll still be a niche use but players who make good use of Vigil can actually get a ton of Exhaustion perk value from it already and it’s a fun perk I use already when I want to constantly be chased.
Wake Up!: As much as I hate Freddy sometimes– killer power specific counter perks are bad and Devs have acknowledged this as well and began shying away from them. If the 99% gate meta is fixed and Blood Warden becomes a bigger issue – this perk should be more of something to alleviate that PERK as well rather than just being a direct opposite to Remember Me as it is.
I'm making a note of these suggestions. Thank you for your input. I never actually considered your idea for Solidarity, and now I'm just thinking: How did I not think of this? Wake Up! not waking up survivors was more of a mild annoyance to me, I just think it's strange how Adrenaline does this but not this perk.
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@Blazelski said:
These ideas are pretty amazing, at least for red rank play. Behavior is very mindful of new players, though, and many of these things would be unacceptable for less knowledgeable/skilled survivors. I particularly love the new Mad Grit and Cruel Limits. This new Furtive Chase has a lot of synergy potential with different killers and addons, so that's rad.. I am conflicted about the combo potential (high and/or low) of this version of The Third Seal and Undying/other hex perks.
While Dying Light is absolutely a terrible perk, making it as good as it should be as a slowdown perk is very dangerous when it could combo with other anti-gen perks. This version of Dying Light coming in with Pop Goes The Weasel, Corrupt Intervention, and Thanatophobia could be... too oppressive, and make the arguments for the necessity of optimal gen-rushing even stronger, leading to poor game health.
You have a good point about Dying Light. That said, I'm not really sure how else to help this perk. Maybe someone else has some ideas to make it balanced. As it is now, it's the only killer perk that actively helps survivors, and I just think that's ridiculous.
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Just wanted to give a little update after seeing this month's Developer Update. Any Means Necessary is getting its cooldown buffed to 60 seconds, which is great!
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Wait so does luck mean MORE skill checks or LESS skill checks?
More Skill Checks. This is just a suggestion to make Luck more interesting, of course. Luck could very easily be changed to do something else, but that's what I would like to see.
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These are some creative ideas. I also like the concept of incorporating other traps from the Saw series, and an attentive survivor will understand what they have to do when they see each one. Amanda's Secret is a weird one, but I always like seeing ideas for new, creative debuffs that truly hinder and mess with the survivors. My only issue is that with the variety of add-ons that alter her RBTs, I think Pig needs more add-ons that affect her Ambush Dash, as this part of her power is what helps her win chases faster. What you've done here are still good ideas to throw around though, good work.
I have a post detailing some of my ideas for add-ons changes if anyone wants to read them:
@Timeman63 said:
Hey, it's me again with another post. This time around, I want to take a look at one of my favorite killers, Pig. Just a heads up, this post is going to be a long one, because there are some things I want to make clear, namely that I think Pig's power is mostly fine, and that it's primarily her add-ons that need to be updated. I made a post like this for Legion as well; you can check it out here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/188978/legion-add-on-pass-rework-ideas
So talking about Pig. She's in a weird place right now. Some players say she's bad, some say she's decent, others say she's actually kind of strong. In my opinion, she hovers somewhere between mid-tier and low-tier. There are days where she shines and days where she's just like "welp, guess I just suck". Now why is there such a wide range of opinions about her viability? My theory about this has two parts.
1) Pig is a rather misunderstood killer and not many people know how she's meant to be played. To provide a personal example, I used to think Clown was not a very good killer at all. That was before I realized that I, much like a lot of players who are new to Clown, was using his power incorrectly. Instead of throwing the Afterpiece Tonic bottles at Survivors like you instinctively would for most projectiles in video games, you throw them in front of where Survivors are running, forcing them to either run through the entire gas cloud and maximizing the slowdown or to run away from the gas cloud and allow Clown to catch up. In a similar way, players often think that Pig is supposed to aim to make her RBTs lethal or that her Ambush Dash isn't very useful at loops. The truth of this is twofold; RBTs are meant to stall the game, not as a source of sacrifices, and her Ambush Dash is actually rather scary at many loops, and is simply a matter of being unpredictable in how you use the dash (although yes, it is often a matter of 50/50 mindgames). In this sense, her power at basekit is actually pretty decent, and the source of frustration for many Pig players is in her lackluster add-ons.
2) The RBT portion of her power is RNG dependent, which means there will be times where her traps are almost ineffective, but also times where the game comes to a halt because all the Survivors are trying to get their RBT off. There are days where the RNG is simply not on my side, though my experiences have mostly been middle ground. The good news is, even if you put a RBT on a Survivor and they get it off on their first Jigsaw Box search, technically speaking the RBT has still accomplished its intended purpose, which is to lure Survivors away from their objective, allowing Pig to pressure Survivors that don't have RBTs. Since getting RBTs off quickly are a real possibility, you learn as a Pig player that you shouldn't rely on them, and that it's up to you and your other abilities (Stealth and Ambush Dash) to make Survivors feel the pain. By thinking this way, you eventually become better as a Pig player and as a Killer in general. Scorpionz has made guide videos that better illustrate Pig's potential far better than I ever could, so I highly recommend you watch his Youtube guides.
So let's get to the part of Pig's kit that I feel really needs changing: her add-ons. Like with my Legion post, I'll be giving my proposed changes, along with my thought process and reasoning for changing them.
Pig Add-on Changes
Workshop Grease - Decrease the time between the Skill Check warning sound and Jigsaw Box Skill Checks
This new effect for Workshop Grease is similar to Huntress Lullaby. The current Workshop Grease is almost detrimental to Pig, as more Skill Checks means more opportunities to get Great Skill Checks, further reducing the time spent searching Jigsaw Boxes. This new Workshop Grease will ensure the Jigsaw Box Skill Checks are at least more difficult to hit. Razor Wires will be reworked in a similar way.
Shattered Syringe - (In addition to the current effect) Increases Crouch movement speed by 10%
I actually think Shattered Syringe is alright, as it allows for more risky Ambush Dash plays and makes misses less punishing. The addition of Crouch movement speed is so that there is a positive effect even if you somehow never miss an Ambush Dash.
John's Medical File - No changes
Combat Straps - No changes
Video Tape - No changes
Utility Blades - Healthy Survivors that remove a Reverse Bear Trap become Injured. Injured Survivors that remove a Reverse Bear Trap suffer from the Mangled Status Effect for 60 seconds
Hemorrhage is simply not a very useful effect, and even if it were, inflicting it on a Survivor with a RBT is counterproductive. These reworked Utility Blades will make Survivors have to deal with being injured for a little while longer after removing their RBT.
Razor Wires - Jigsaw Box Skill Checks become Difficult Skill Checks
These reworked Razor Wires make Jigsaw Box Skill Checks the size of a Decisive Strike Skill Check, instead of increasing the chances of a Skill Check, which can often be detrimental.
Last Will - No changes
Face Mask - No changes
Slow-Release Toxin - Hitting Survivors with an Ambush Dash attack applies the Exhausted Status Effect for 15 seconds
Inflicting debuffs on a Survivor with a RBT is often counterproductive, since you will be prioritizing Survivors that don't have one. As such, many of the add-ons that inflict debuffs upon placing RBTs on Survivors will be reworked in this manner. It also aims to provide more add-ons that give the Ambush Dash more capabilities.
Rusty Attachments - Hitting Survivors with an Ambush Dash attack applies the Mangled Status Effect for 90 seconds
Jigsaw's Annotated Plan - No changes
Interlocking Razor - No changes
Bag of Gears - No changes
Tampered Timer - Reverse Bear Traps are now automatically active upon setting them
This one might be a bit controversial, but in my opinion the current Tampered Timer is very feast or famine, in the sense that a RBT might not activate on a Survivor, effectively making the add-on worthless, but it can also reduce the death timer enough that in combination with add-ons like Crate of Gears, Survivors often don't have enough time to search all the Jigsaw Boxes and may get sacrificed without any chance of escaping, making it potentially unfun to play against. This reworked Tampered Timer keeps the death timer at 2 minutes and 30 seconds, while still retaining the original purpose of the add-on, which is making RBTs more threatening.
Jigsaw's Sketch - No changes
Crate of Gears - No changes
Amanda's Secret - (In addition to the current effects) Putting a Survivor into the Dying State with an Ambush Dash attack reveals the Auras of all Survivors within 32 meters of The Pig for 4 seconds.
The current Amanda's Secret has a niche purpose in allowing Pig to target a Survivor that has recently removed a RBT, though I feel the effect is not good enough to be a Very Rare add-on. The added effect of revealing nearby survivors after a successful down with an Ambush Dash rewards Pig with information she can then use to snowball.
Rules Set No. 2 - Renamed to Iridescent Tape. A Survivor starts the Trial with a Reverse Bear Trap. Reverse Bear Trap death timers are reduced by 10 seconds each time a generator is completed
Some players think Rules Set No. 2 should be basekit, while others say the add-on does more harm than good. Whether the add-on is good or not, I personally don't think the effect is very interesting, nor is the effect itself worthy of being an Ultra Rare add-on. This reimagined Rules Set No. 2, now named Iridescent Tape, creates an immediate threat in the form of a RBT already on a Survivor. In addition to this, RBT death timers are reduced by a few seconds when a generator is completed, either before or after activation. It's probably not enough to make RBT sacrifices happen all the time, but it should be enough of a threat that Survivors will think twice before continuing to work on generators.
Amanda's Letter - When crouched, Auras of Survivors within 12 meters are revealed to The Pig. After standing up from Crouch, The Pig's TR and Red Stain will remain suppressed for 6 seconds
I actually think the effect of Amanda's Letter is rather good, but not so good that it warrants such hefty downsides, so I've simply removed them. I've also added another effect inspired by Wraith's add-on "The Ghost - Soot". Having your TR and Red Stain remain suppressed after standing up allows Pig to be stealthier and potentially go for grabs off of generators, or to catch Survivors off guard in general.
With that, that wraps up all my proposed Pig Add-on changes. Please leave your thoughts and criticisms. Thank you for sticking with me!
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I want to revitalize this thread a little but, but have too much to say here. I made a post talking in length about her add-ons and how I would buff/redesign them.
@Timeman63 said:
Hey, it's me again with another post. This time around, I want to take a look at one of my favorite killers, Pig. Just a heads up, this post is going to be a long one, because there are some things I want to make clear, namely that I think Pig's power is mostly fine, and that it's primarily her add-ons that need to be updated. I made a post like this for Legion as well; you can check it out here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/188978/legion-add-on-pass-rework-ideas
So talking about Pig. She's in a weird place right now. Some players say she's bad, some say she's decent, others say she's actually kind of strong. In my opinion, she hovers somewhere between mid-tier and low-tier. There are days where she shines and days where she's just like "welp, guess I just suck". Now why is there such a wide range of opinions about her viability? My theory about this has two parts.
1) Pig is a rather misunderstood killer and not many people know how she's meant to be played. To provide a personal example, I used to think Clown was not a very good killer at all. That was before I realized that I, much like a lot of players who are new to Clown, was using his power incorrectly. Instead of throwing the Afterpiece Tonic bottles at Survivors like you instinctively would for most projectiles in video games, you throw them in front of where Survivors are running, forcing them to either run through the entire gas cloud and maximizing the slowdown or to run away from the gas cloud and allow Clown to catch up. In a similar way, players often think that Pig is supposed to aim to make her RBTs lethal or that her Ambush Dash isn't very useful at loops. The truth of this is twofold; RBTs are meant to stall the game, not as a source of sacrifices, and her Ambush Dash is actually rather scary at many loops, and is simply a matter of being unpredictable in how you use the dash (although yes, it is often a matter of 50/50 mindgames). In this sense, her power at basekit is actually pretty decent, and the source of frustration for many Pig players is in her lackluster add-ons.
2) The RBT portion of her power is RNG dependent, which means there will be times where her traps are almost ineffective, but also times where the game comes to a halt because all the Survivors are trying to get their RBT off. There are days where the RNG is simply not on my side, though my experiences have mostly been middle ground. The good news is, even if you put a RBT on a Survivor and they get it off on their first Jigsaw Box search, technically speaking the RBT has still accomplished its intended purpose, which is to lure Survivors away from their objective, allowing Pig to pressure Survivors that don't have RBTs. Since getting RBTs off quickly are a real possibility, you learn as a Pig player that you shouldn't rely on them, and that it's up to you and your other abilities (Stealth and Ambush Dash) to make Survivors feel the pain. By thinking this way, you eventually become better as a Pig player and as a Killer in general. Scorpionz has made guide videos that better illustrate Pig's potential far better than I ever could, so I highly recommend you watch his Youtube guides.
So let's get to the part of Pig's kit that I feel really needs changing: her add-ons. Like with my Legion post, I'll be giving my proposed changes, along with my thought process and reasoning for changing them.
Pig Add-on Changes
Workshop Grease - Decrease the time between the Skill Check warning sound and Jigsaw Box Skill Checks
This new effect for Workshop Grease is similar to Huntress Lullaby. The current Workshop Grease is almost detrimental to Pig, as more Skill Checks means more opportunities to get Great Skill Checks, further reducing the time spent searching Jigsaw Boxes. This new Workshop Grease will ensure the Jigsaw Box Skill Checks are at least more difficult to hit. Razor Wires will be reworked in a similar way.
Shattered Syringe - (In addition to the current effect) Increases Crouch movement speed by 10%
I actually think Shattered Syringe is alright, as it allows for more risky Ambush Dash plays and makes misses less punishing. The addition of Crouch movement speed is so that there is a positive effect even if you somehow never miss an Ambush Dash.
John's Medical File - No changes
Combat Straps - No changes
Video Tape - No changes
Utility Blades - Healthy Survivors that remove a Reverse Bear Trap become Injured. Injured Survivors that remove a Reverse Bear Trap suffer from the Mangled Status Effect for 60 seconds
Hemorrhage is simply not a very useful effect, and even if it were, inflicting it on a Survivor with a RBT is counterproductive. These reworked Utility Blades will make Survivors have to deal with being injured for a little while longer after removing their RBT.
Razor Wires - Jigsaw Box Skill Checks become Difficult Skill Checks
These reworked Razor Wires make Jigsaw Box Skill Checks the size of a Decisive Strike Skill Check, instead of increasing the chances of a Skill Check, which can often be detrimental.
Last Will - No changes
Face Mask - No changes
Slow-Release Toxin - Hitting Survivors with an Ambush Dash attack applies the Exhausted Status Effect for 15 seconds
Inflicting debuffs on a Survivor with a RBT is often counterproductive, since you will be prioritizing Survivors that don't have one. As such, many of the add-ons that inflict debuffs upon placing RBTs on Survivors will be reworked in this manner. It also aims to provide more add-ons that give the Ambush Dash more capabilities.
Rusty Attachments - Hitting Survivors with an Ambush Dash attack applies the Mangled Status Effect for 90 seconds
Jigsaw's Annotated Plan - No changes
Interlocking Razor - No changes
Bag of Gears - No changes
Tampered Timer - Reverse Bear Traps are now automatically active upon setting them
This one might be a bit controversial, but in my opinion the current Tampered Timer is very feast or famine, in the sense that a RBT might not activate on a Survivor, effectively making the add-on worthless, but it can also reduce the death timer enough that in combination with add-ons like Crate of Gears, Survivors often don't have enough time to search all the Jigsaw Boxes and may get sacrificed without any chance of escaping, making it potentially unfun to play against. This reworked Tampered Timer keeps the death timer at 2 minutes and 30 seconds, while still retaining the original purpose of the add-on, which is making RBTs more threatening.
Jigsaw's Sketch - No changes
Crate of Gears - No changes
Amanda's Secret - (In addition to the current effects) Putting a Survivor into the Dying State with an Ambush Dash attack reveals the Auras of all Survivors within 32 meters of The Pig for 4 seconds.
The current Amanda's Secret has a niche purpose in allowing Pig to target a Survivor that has recently removed a RBT, though I feel the effect is not good enough to be a Very Rare add-on. The added effect of revealing nearby survivors after a successful down with an Ambush Dash rewards Pig with information she can then use to snowball.
Rules Set No. 2 - Renamed to Iridescent Tape. A Survivor starts the Trial with a Reverse Bear Trap. Reverse Bear Trap death timers are reduced by 10 seconds each time a generator is completed
Some players think Rules Set No. 2 should be basekit, while others say the add-on does more harm than good. Whether the add-on is good or not, I personally don't think the effect is very interesting, nor is the effect itself worthy of being an Ultra Rare add-on. This reimagined Rules Set No. 2, now named Iridescent Tape, creates an immediate threat in the form of a RBT already on a Survivor. In addition to this, RBT death timers are reduced by a few seconds when a generator is completed, either before or after activation. It's probably not enough to make RBT sacrifices happen all the time, but it should be enough of a threat that Survivors will think twice before continuing to work on generators.
Amanda's Letter - When crouched, Auras of Survivors within 12 meters are revealed to The Pig. After standing up from Crouch, The Pig's TR and Red Stain will remain suppressed for 6 seconds
I actually think the effect of Amanda's Letter is rather good, but not so good that it warrants such hefty downsides, so I've simply removed them. I've also added another effect inspired by Wraith's add-on "The Ghost - Soot". Having your TR and Red Stain remain suppressed after standing up allows Pig to be stealthier and potentially go for grabs off of generators, or to catch Survivors off guard in general.
With that, that wraps up all my proposed Pig Add-on changes. Please leave your thoughts and criticisms. Thank you for sticking with me!
In short, I actually think her power is serviceable, but her lack of reliable/good add-ons really hurts her.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Nice changes! But I would decrease the fatigue duration to 3 seconds at all times, I know what were you going for, but 4 seconds is just too much, also I swing at the end of Frenzy for extra distance, so with your change I would still get the 4 second stun, so no difference for me. :(
I 100% agree with the removal of that stupid power gauge depletion mechanic from Old Legion, idk why they left it in there...
Now to the addons, I actually like the current pins, since Frenzy is just a free first hit, so it doesn't hurt that you need to work for the effects kinda.
I personally hate the Killer Instinct detection range addons, they just give you hope that someone is nearby, but they aren't, I would change them to this:
- Increases TR by 8 meters while in Frenzy.
- Decreases TR by 8 meters while not in Frenzy.
I want Legion to have their movement speed addons back, every other Killer that changes movement speed does have some, so why not Legion?
Also the vaulting speed addon sounds interesting, but 5% isn't good at all, since Bamboozle gives you 15%...
I don't get what the point of Joey's Mix Tape is tbh...
I like the change to Stab Wound Study, but only 1% faster? Isn't that kinda useless? look at Blight, his addons give him max +6% movement speed per slam, so maybe buff the speed gain to 5% and cap it at 20%, that could be fun.
Your Frank's Mix Tape should just be base kit tbh.
Cold Dirt sounds interesting.
Thank you, this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for.
Joey's Mixtape was just an experimental thought, for sure. I'll most likely go back to the drawing board for that one.
Julie's Mixtape and Stab Wounds Study are definitely subject to number changes, since it's hard to visualize the effects without a dev build or something like that. These are just suggestions after all.
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Survivor: Stake Out and Aftercare. For Stake Out especially, I prefer a stealthy playstyle, and Stake Out rewards me for being successful in that. I will always stand by it.
Killer: There are so many I could put here, but the one I always come back to is Surveillance. It's an incredibly good information tool that isn't immediately obvious to survivors.
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I've got a couple individual perks I'd like to share, and coincidentally a lot of them are survivor perks.
Distortion: When I manage to evade the killer the entire match with this perk and they notice I have this in the post-game summary, I can only imagine how they must feel.
Breakdown: No one ever expects you to have this perk, so when it manages to surprise my teammates and screw over the killer, I just laugh.
As for perk builds, I've been having fun messing around with a kobe build on Ace, or as I like to call it, the "You know what? I don't feel like being on the hook right now. Later loser!" build.
Slippery Meat and Up the Ante, plus two other perks of my choice that help me after I unhook myself.
Up the Ante in particular annoys both my teammates and the killer, for obvious reasons.
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Decisive Strike as of now is something I avoid using on principle. I don't even own DS or any of Laurie's perks, but I guarantee you if I ever had the nerve to run it, I would never get to use it. Some minor tweaks to make it less abusable would be alright, enough to even make me try it out, but right now? No.
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I think DS doesn't need a huge rework like most people seem to think, just some tweaks to make it less abusable while still keeping the potential for brave and clutch plays. Perhaps something along the lines of this:
[DS ]should deactivate if you touch a gen, touch a totem, maybe touch an exit gate switch, sabo a hook, heal or attempt to unhook another survivor.
I forgot who exactly had this idea but my thoughts are pretty much the same.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I stopped reading after “requires throwing the game”
protection hits, thus MoM stacks, are easier than ever to acquire, with the exception of how easy original MoM was (which was broken).
It doesn’t always need to be running between your teammate and the killer mid chase.
You can:
- take a hit while someone is being carried to a hook in an attempt to buy them wiggle time.
- Take a hit while sabotaging a hook.
- Take a hit while unhooking.
- Take a hit while healing another teammate, which is a sensible thing to do if they’re already nearly healed and the killer is likely to tunnel them.
- Simply being the one that takes a hit while other injured survivors are nearby, such as if the killer gets the drop on a group working on a gen together.
Survivors shouldn’t be treating MoM as perk they intentionally go out of their way to acquire stacks for. For example. Running across the map for a teammate in trouble on the opposite side of a map is probably just a waste of your time if it’s likely other survivors are nearby to help. MoM should be treated as an INSURANCE perk where if opportunities present themselves where you are already nearby to protect a teammate, you’ll be compensated later when you’re in trouble.
This. How am I only noticing this post now? I wouldn't mind some tweaks to make Mettle of Man slightly more accessible, but as it is now, it's a perk I run when I feel like making 5000 IQ clutch plays, since NO ONE expects you to actually have it.
I recently unlocked Ace and have decided to run meme perks on him, Mettle of Man being one of them. I get the dumbest grin on my face when the killer procs it and stands shocked.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/174220/why-do-people-dislike-borrowed-time
BT is ok. It just feels rough to deal with at endgame (and DS)
I feel the same. I often run Save The Best For Last on many killers as well, so I will gladly proc Borrowed Time if the survivor's a non-obsession in order to get a stack. Even though Deep Wound sucks at downing people, in that time, the survivor has to put up with it and can't do anything meaningful until they mend. Out of all the meta perks in the game, Borrowed Time is the one I mind the least, and I myself will use it sometimes when I want my teammate to get out safely.
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Pig, Clown and Legion. With Clown especially, it's pretty much, "Thank you, can you do that again so I can hear the laugh again?"
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@[Deleted User] said:
I’m extremely flattered that I’m considered as best Clown, but as knowledgeable as I am, and yes i’ll proudly say I’m very very good at Clown, I wouldn’t say I’m the best.
I have my flub days. I have my Clown “no no” matches that have me asking “why did I do that?! Idiot”.
I’d be uncomfortable being referenced as the best when I’m sure there are probably some truly better Clowns out there. For as much as I figured out on my own, there are things I learned from other forum members and YouTube over the years since Clown’s release.
Many of the things I know and practice as Clown, I learned from your posts. I've been having a lot more success playing him when you made me realize that the most effective way of using bottles is to toss them in front of survivors, not at them. I don't even rely on Flask of Bleach as much because of it (though I will still use it as a treat). If there exists someone who is even better than you at Clown, I'd like to meet them.
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Bond - Pretty self explanatory really
Self-Care - Despite the flak it gets, if you know the proper time to use it, it will save you in situations where teammates cannot be found or are unable to heal you. Bring a medkit for good measure if you plan to use this
Iron Will / Resilience - If you're going to be injured, you may as well have some insurance. Run both if you like
Exhaustion perk of your choice - Personally I like to use Lithe, but all the exhaustion perks will help in one situation or another to help run the killer for longer. Don't use Adrenaline unless you are confident you and your team can make it to endgame with your build
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While we're at it, we might have to rework Deep Wound again. sarcasm
"Nerf Legion" has pretty much become a common joke on the forums.
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@Nemmy_Wemmy said:
Oh hoho what would you run as your 4th? I currently run Thana, ruin, bbq, and blood echo.
Been wanting to try out deathbound legion so bad.
Also @Poweas mind me asking your thoughts of deathbound Legion? Could be pretty good.
The build I currently run is an information/gen control build, with perks that punish survivors for not healing but also allowing Legion to capitalize on survivors who do heal.
Blood Echo, Surge, Surveillance, and Deathbound, with any addons of your choosing, although Defaced Smiley Pin and Filthy Blade make healing and mending particularly inconvenient, so I would recommend one or the other.
To slot Deathbound somewhere in your build, I would replace either Thanatophobia or Blood Echo, as either of those perks punish survivors for not healing, so you can afford to run only one of those. Pick whatever perks suit you.
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@CosmicParagon said:
Congratulations, Legion's gonna get nerfed again. Thanks a lot...
Buff them a little, but also nerf them in another area. That's usually how it goes. In all seriousness though, Deathbound is not a overly strong perk on its own. It just happens to synergize very well with Legion's power, and that's not enough reason to nerf the perk or Legion themselves.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Killer: BBQ. Sure it has SOME value in the info it provides, and that info better serves some killers over others, but how praised the perk often is is completely overblown.
Survivor: The whole meta.
- Adrenaline. You run the very real risk of being down a more useful perk if the team starts running into strife early or mid game. Plus staying injured just for a potential insta-heal isn’t as smart as it sounds.
- BT. Except for endgame where a killer hook camping is very likely, this perk is useless against a competent killer that usually leaves the hook right away. Bum rushing the hook before the killer can leave just for the sake of activating BT is just as dumb as bum rushing the hook without BT. You’re either getting yourself, or the rescued into strife still, and NOW you’re probably wasting the time of a THIRD survivor that also needs to abandon a gen to come help.
- DS. Woohoo. A brief stun that can only be done once. Whoopee. Unless a killer has been foolish enough to allow DS to remain a possibility at endgame, this is a waste of a perk. If a killer is 100% hell bent on tunnelling, DS isn’t going to stop them.
- Unbreakable. Meh. Guess I have similar feelings towards this as DS. A killer suspecting Unbreakable will just slug early and get survivors wasting it long before that last gen pops.
Pretty much everything you said. At this point, seeing survivors only ever running these perks with only a little variation isn't even all that tilting or annoying anymore, it's just tiresome and boring.
Borrowed Time still has a special place in my heart as someone who mained Bill when they were a budding new player, and I only use it as insurance to secure a safe unhook, not to be obnoxious and farm.
BBQ and Chili is a perk that, strangely enough, I've actually used less and less frequently as I've played the game. I use it on Huntress, Oni, Ghostface, and that's it mostly. If I equip it on other killers, it's because I'm in need of bloodpoints and have been having bad matches prior.
Decisive Strike just makes me roll my eyes whenever I know a survivor has it. I usually just try to get it out of survivors early in the match. I only get really irked when I accidentally pick up a survivor 59 sec after they were unhooked. I swear 60 sec is way too long for a perk that's honestly not even all that amazing.
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@Timeman63 said:
First time posting to the forums, and I wanted to grace it with what I hope is a pretty cool idea for a chapter. Feel free to critique it and give your thoughts on it. Enjoy.
Here is the next chapter for Dead by Daylight. Endure the agony of a steam-powered plague, with Infectious Despair. Enter the Heart of Gears. A marvel of science and engineering, the Heart of Gears was a large factory and energy plant that launched an industrial revolution. However, due to a devastating viral outbreak, it was converted into a quarantine and research laboratory to fight the disease, but to no avail. Countless lives were lost to the plague, and the Heart of Gears was abandoned, a curious relic that remains a historical mystery.
The new killer is The Crow. Bethany Ingrid was a brilliant scientist and engineer. Every day she made a new revelation and brought a new invention to her world. However, she was always looked down upon by her colleagues, her ideas referred to as radical and outlandish. Despite her label as a maverick, Bethany was firm in her convictions, and faced each of her trials with vigor. When a horrendous plague struck the country, she was reassigned as a researcher under the watchful eye of Dr. Samuel Owens, to help develop a cure to the disease. Bethany despised working under Owens, seeing him as a symbol of everyone that had wronged and ridiculed her. Owens was always opposed to Bethany's way of thinking, and even amid a plague would not listen to Bethany's theories and observations. Bethany created a new contraption that she felt would kickstart the development of the cure tenfold: The Da Vinci Box. It was a box that took the blood of deceased plague victims and filtered it, separating foreign substances from the blood. Her hope was to extract the virus from the blood and use it to create a cure. She was about to present her findings until she made a grim discovery: Owens was performing experiments on living victims, extracting their organs and turning them into twisted automatons. His ultimate goal was to create a group of humans immune to the plague, among other things, and eventually become an automaton himself. Bethany became enraged at Owens and his twisted experiment, lashing out at him. She managed to incapacitate him, impale his heart with a staff and stick the heart in her machine. As the machine ground up Owens' wicked heart, Bethany donned her scientist robes and a bird mask, and fled the country. Her experiences left her a bitter shell of a human, resentful of all those around her, and she lived out the rest of her life in solitude, with only her inventions to keep her company. As a dark fog enveloped her, she vowed to prove herself to the world, no matter what it took to make people listen.
The Crow's power is Bitter Blight. You are a shorter killer, have normal movement speed (115%) and have a smaller terror radius (24m) than normal. You have access to a plague doctor's cane to bludgeon survivors with, a satchel of flasks containing a debilitating disease and your prized invention, the Da Vinci Box. Whenever you injure a survivor with a basic attack, you apply a Blight Mark to that survivor, gain a Blight Mark of your own, and they suffer from a new status effect: Debilitated. While Debilitated, a survivor's repair speed is reduced by 12% for 60 seconds and they suffer other status effects that stack based on the number of Blight Marks they have accumulated. The repair speed penalty can be removed by healing to healthy, but survivors cannot remove Blight Marks by any means.
1st Blight Mark Applied: Survivors are afflicted with the Hemorrhage status effect
2nd Blight Mark Applied: Survivors are afflicted with the Blindness status effect
3rd Blight Mark Applied: Survivors are afflicted with the Deep Wound status effect
The Crow holds 6 flasks of a virulent fluid in her satchel that affect not only people but objects around her. Tap or press and hold the Power Button to throw a flask that breaks on contact with an object or survivor. Hitting a survivor with a flask applies the Hindered status effect (reduces movement speed by 20%) for a few seconds, and exacerbates existing Blight Marks, applying other status effects based on the number of Blight Marks on the survivor. Exacerbated status effects stack with each other.
1 Blight Mark: Survivors are afflicted with the Mangled status effect for 60 seconds
2 Blight Marks: Survivors are afflicted with the Oblivious status effect for 60 seconds
3 Blight Marks: Survivors are afflicted with the Exposed status effect for the duration of the Hindered status effect
Downing a survivor that has Blight Marks removes all Blight Marks on that survivor, and applies them to you. Hitting a window vault with a flask contaminates it for 20 seconds, forcing survivors to medium vault it and block the vault location. Hitting a pallet that is either upright or dropped with a flask causes it to become brittle for 20 seconds, breaking it as soon as it is dropped or vaulted by a survivor, however you still suffer from the stun effect if the pallet hits you. Flasks can be replenished one at a time by pressing the Active Ability button. Replenishing takes 2.5 seconds.
The Da Vinci Box grants The Crow newfound power when she accumulates infected blood. Upon collecting 6 Blight Marks from survivors, The Crow caws with fury and immediately enters a Rage, granting her 120% movement speed, and faster vaulting for 60 seconds. The Crow cannot gain any new Blight Marks while in her Rage, and her current Blight Marks are spent after her Rage ends.
The Crow comes with three teachable perks:
Tampered Machine
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AJ314FIR5E3V/tampered-machine.png
(To clarify, Accelerated Skill Checks have an increased chance of appearing for the 35 second duration. If you are using Overcharge alongside this perk, Tampered Machine does not affect Overcharge Skill Checks, and when breaking a generator, the Overcharge Skill Check occurs first.)
Misanthropy
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V9GQUMQN0B9W/misanthropy.png
(The speed boost from this perk can only be gained once, so being stunned a second time before the perk deactivates will not give you 10% increased movement speed, for example.)
Malpractice
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BO0BC5KDU2A1/malpractice.png
(In case it's not completely clear, if a survivor recovers themselves from the Dying State with Unbreakable, this perk will reveal their aura as well.)
Common Add-Ons
Blighted Bird Beak: The beak of a crow that succumbed to the plague. Bethany studied it in hopes of finding a cure. Increases Debilitated duration by 20 seconds
Morocco Leather Gloves: Gloves that protect the user from contact with disease. They were previously engineering gloves. Decreases Flask reload time by 0.5 seconds
Polished Eyeglass: An old glass eyepiece polished to a perfect shine. Shows the arc of the Flask
Liquid Tar: A viscous substance used in some engineering projects. Bethany usually refuses to use it on account of it being "primitive". Increases Hindered effect duration by 1 second
Uncommon Add-Ons
Medical Syringe: A syringe that allows for easy transfer of various liquid substances. Decreases Flask reload time by 0.7 seconds
Travel Satchel: A decently sized satchel for transporting science tools and equipment. Start with 1 extra Flask. Increases Flask carrying capacity by 1
Taxidermal Beak: The beak of an eagle kept in pristine condition, a trinket from the times Bethany studied biology. Increases Debilitated duration by 30 seconds
Acid Formula: A formula sheet for a corrosive liquid written by Bethany. Causes a very severe burn. Debilitated survivors suffer from the Mangled status effect for 20 seconds longer when hit with a Flask
Noisemaker Diagram: Blueprints for a noise-making device drawn by Bethany. Causes hearing loss from prolonged exposure. Debilitated survivors suffer from the Oblivious status effect for 20 seconds longer when hit with a Flask
Rare Add-Ons
Ribbon Satchel: A satchel decorated with brightly colored ribbons. Although her colleagues described it as "tacky", it was Bethany's favorite satchel. Start with 2 extra Flasks. Increases Flask carrying capacity by 2
Specialized Glue: A very strong glue that is also waterproof. Bethany invented it herself and would use it extensively. Increases Hindered duration by 1.5 seconds
Repulsive Petri Dish: A petri dish that has not been cleaned in months. The virus contained in this dish seems to be especially resilient. Increases contamination time on Vaults and Pallets by 20 seconds
Razor Cane: A plague doctor's cane that can also be used as a weapon. Being struck by this cane causes gruesome wounds. Hitting a survivor with The Crow's Basic Attack when they have at least 1 Blight Mark applies the Broken status effect for 60 seconds
Severed Pig Head: A decaying pig head that has an overpowering smell. It reminds Bethany of all those that ridiculed her. The Crow's Rage grants 130% movement speed, but requires 3 extra Blight Marks. Reduces Rage duration by 15 seconds
Very Rare Add-Ons
Lavender Vial: A vial of translucent purple liquid. Despite its intended use as a way to keep away miasma, Bethany instead used it as a perfume. Debilitated survivors suffer from the Exhausted status effect for 30 seconds when hit with a Flask, but no longer suffer from the Exposed status effect when they have 3 Blight Marks
Arsenic Bottle: A bottle of liquid containing poison used to euthanize plague patients. Bethany has considered using it on healthy people more than once. Flasks can injure survivors, but The Crow does not gain Blight Marks by injuring survivors in this manner. Reduces Flask carrying capacity by 2
Shadow Hood: Although most plague researchers wore wide-brimmed hats, Bethany wore this hood in rebellion, uncaring about the symbol of profession. Wearing this grants Bethany a set of ingenious new tricks. The Crow starts the match with a 32m Terror Radius. Reduces Terror Radius by 4m for every Flask spent (6 Flasks = 32m, 0 Flasks = 8m)
Samuel's Heart: The still beating heart of Dr. Samuel Owens that Bethany tore out in a fit of rage. Hearing its beat fills Bethany with an indescribable fury. The Crow gains 2 Blight Marks when injuring a survivor with a Basic Attack, but Rage requires 3 extra Blight Marks
Ultra Rare Add-Ons
Margaret's Photo: A small photo of a colleague before she succumbed to the plague. Bethany keeps it in her satchel as a memento of the only person that didn't ridicule her, and gazing upon it keeps her calm. The Crow no longer gives any indication to survivors when her Rage is active, and Rage grants The Crow the Undetectable status effect for its duration
Iridescent Gear: A very shiny gear in mint condition since Bethany made it in the factory. Putting this gear in the Da Vinci Box makes it incredibly efficient. Flasks now apply Blight Marks to survivors, but can no longer contaminate Vaults or Pallets
The new survivor is Margaret Luna. Margaret Luna is a solitary astronomer who was always fascinated by what lay in the cosmos, by celestial bodies that made her life as an individual seem so small. As a shut-in, she would spend hours upon hours observing stars through her telescope, writing down her findings and mailing them to scientific groups to peer-review. Margaret's hesitation to leave her home was only worsened when a plague hit her country, and she grew more and more paranoid. When she received word that a colleague needed her assistance, she gathered her courage and went to help them. With her specialty in telescopes, she was able to help develop microscopes to aid in discovering a cure for the disease. Unfortunately, Margaret eventually fell ill with the disease, doomed to die in a cold bed. The last thing she felt as her eyes closed was the gloved hand of her colleague, who attempted to comfort her as she faded from consciousness. Margaret opened her eyes once more, finding herself in a terrifying realm, far from the familiarity of her home. Filled with a new determination, she began looking to the stars again, hoping to find her way back.
Margaret Luna comes with three teachable perks:
Look to the Stars
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/U7UIMUQ8FNX4/look-to-the-stars.png
(This is just a simple aura reading perk. Having the Exit Gates revealed to you after all the generators are powered helps you know exactly where to run towards to escape, or as a reminder if you can't get to the Exit Gates right away.)
Distressed Sonata
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UWD3DPLULD47/distressed-sonata.png
(You start the trial with 1 token. Needing to stand still to use the perk's active ability prevents it from conflicting too much with other perks that use the active ability button. If you're also using Diversion, you won't use up a token if you're crouched when pressing the active ability button. If you're also using Any Means Necessary, you won't use up a token as long as you make sure you're near a pallet.)
Blessed Timepiece
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PF1PWO0QS05Q/blessed-timepiece.png
(Essentially Leader, but for yourself each time you succeed a Great Skill Check. The perk displays tokens similar to We're Gonna Live Forever and Autodidact)
A dire situation can cause fear and paranoia, and bring out the worst in people. They become selfish, turn on each other, and cause an outbreak of despair. Experience bitter resentment and wrath with the Infectious Despair chapter.
And that's it. I'll update this post with original artwork when I have time. Thank you for leaving feedback!
I'll just post the link to my Chapter Idea, since there's a lot there that I think would be interesting.
I like the idea of a Steampunk/Black Plague killer.
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I had a fun time using a sort of Undetectable build for Pyramid Head when I was trying out the PTB. The perks I was able to unlock for him were Dark Devotion, Nurse's Calling, Deathbound, and Pop Goes the Weasel. With some modifications, this could turn out to a be a serviceable build, allowing you to really get the drop on survivors with Dark Devotion and Nurse's Calling. I'll keep these two perks in my build and experiment with the other two perk slots to form a true "Spooky Pyramid Head" build.
I'd like to point out that Play with your Food actually does lose stacks when using the ranged attack (Punishment of the Damned), since it's capable of dealing damage and is therefore considered a "Special Attack" according to the perk. That said, Play with your Food is always a good ace-up-your-sleeve perk that can throw off survivors that don't expect you to be 5-15% faster than normal, so I would keep trying it out to see if it works for you.
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I especially love the perk ideas! They're all very interesting and would definitely shake up some perk builds if they were ever put into the game.
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@Straiden said:
Yes and no. At it's core, it is a great game concept. Due to gross mismanagement and an underwhelming development team, the game has mostly squandered its potential.
For evidence of the 2 accusations, merely look at the numerous powers or perks that seasoned players warned the devs about before release. Instances where it was obvious an ability would completely break aspects of gameplay (MoM), or an event that would result in horrid wait times due to a lack of development forethought ( Halloween event with postules).
The devs keep ignoring bugs, bad mechanics and/or easily fixed balance issues (1 key one person escapes) while peddling a neverending fashion show of skins that cost more than the characters.
Great core concept, crap management.
I still love DBD. I started playing the game around the time the Demise of the Faithful chapter came out, and I wouldn't have stuck with it since had I not thoroughly enjoyed my experiences. The Ash vs. Evil Dead DLC was the first time where the developers truly dropped the ball for me though, and in my opinion it remains the worst DLC ever released. MoM almost made me quit the game, that's how bad it was.
The content that's been released since then has been significantly better, in the sense that I always had something good to say about it, which is more than could be said about the Ash DLC. Ghostface is a very good killer, Demogorgon is quite unique and interesting, I'm always happy to see a Nancy, Steve, or Yui on my team, Deathslinger changes up the rules in a way that makes survivors think twice about their actions, and the Silent Hill chapter was something I never knew I wanted in DBD.
Overall, I'm happy with the things that are good in this game. It's far from perfect, but there are very few games like it. I'm interested to see where DBD can go from here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347559#Comment_1347559
Or at the very least, the curse doesn’t appear until a skill check is failed.
Even better, I think. I just want Huntress Lullaby to be better, man.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347074#Comment_1347074
It's not camping if they don't let you leave.
Buckle Up: Give it the Kindred effect in the sense that, when you're downed, other Survivors see your aura/Recovery progress the same as you do when they're down.
Cruel Limits: Rather than block the vaults within range of the generator, block the vaults within range of the Killer themselves.
Territorial Imperative: When this perk activates, gain a speed boost when moving in the direction of the basement.
These are all pretty good ideas. Although, the Cruel Limits idea is a bit problematic. If a survivor was in a chase with the Killer and a generator gets finished, they'd essentially be screwed just because their teammates did the objective.
I think a better idea for Cruel Limits would be to still block vault locations around the completed generator, but make that effect permanent until another generator gets completed, after which the vaults around that generator get blocked. My idea is that the area around the completed generator effectively becomes a dead zone and becomes much more dangerous if the Killer chases them in that direction. Also increase the range to 32m.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345002#Comment_1345002
It’s curses from the beginning because the additional 6% regression on failed skillchecks is an active penalty even without tokens
I almost forgot it does that at the start without tokens, though it does mean it gives the earliest warning that it's present out of all the hexes. I would almost be alright with it not applying the extra regression until a token is gained if it means survivors won't find out about it literally immediately at the start of a match.
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Both Distortion and Huntress Lullaby are some of my favorite underrated perks that many people dismiss as being not very reliable or useful. A few other ones I champion are Stake Out, Autodidact, Pharmacy, and Agitation.
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@ALostPuppy said:
It's up there but DS isn't the strongest perk, that would go to Object of Obsession.
It literally breaks the game and gives the survivors an absurd amount of information. The drawback isn't even one because no good survivor is going to care if they get seen by the killer because they know how, and want to run one around. If you're not a stealth killer it's almost always a GG, and even then it's still a great perk because anyone with a brain and moderate game knowledge can triangulate a killers position when they see the perk lighting up.
This perk is the only perk that frustrates me more than Decisive Strike. At least with Decisive Strike, I can play around it somewhat (slugging, eating the stun early in the game). But with Object of Obsession, there's often nothing or very little I can do to stop the survivor from gaining information on me and relaying it to their teammates, short of running Blindness debuffs. It also makes Trapper and Hag almost unplayable, which is unacceptable to me; a perk shouldn't render a setup killer's hard work completely moot (this also applies to Maps revealing traps).
Decisive Strike only needs minor QOL tweaks to be in a healthy spot, in my opinion. But Object of Obsession is simply too strong when used in a SWF. I think it needs a complete rework.
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Gonna see which perks everyone is talking about and give my thoughts, as well as add a couple perks to the list.
Predator: Essentially just Spirit training wheels. I understand the purpose of the perk, but it doesn't do it for me.
Distressing: This is actually somewhat useful in niche builds, most notably for Doctor to increase his Static Blast AOE. It also works well in slugging and anti-healing builds, but for the most part, it's a handicap.
Beast of Prey: I equipped this perk one time to do an Archive Challenge and never looked back. Any other perk would have benefited me more.
Sole Survivor: I really, really hate this perk from a design standpoint. A perk that only works if you let your teammates die? Also blocking aura reading for the Killer only matters if the Killer is using aura reading perks to begin with. So not only is the perk bad, it's also selfish, which is just infuriating to me.
Open Handed: Not a terrible perk when paired with other perks, but does almost nothing by itself.
We're Gonna Live Forever: Does literally nothing to help you win the game, but it's great for Bloodpoints. Thankfully the devs are going to change it soon.
Shadowborn: Some people can't physically play the game without this perk because of motion-sickness, and I feel for you. The devs should really just put an FOV slider in the game and rework this perk into something different.
Up the Ante: This is almost the worst survivor perk in the game, but it at least does something(?), and isn't a selfish perk like Sole Survivor.
Monstrous Shrine: This perk just needs a complete rework. Even if the numbers were stronger, survivors can easily avoid getting basement hooked.
Boil Over: This perk has saved my life as a survivor only once out of all the times I used it (which isn't very many). I am not kidding.
Slippery Meat: Survivors who voluntarily use this just hate Trapper and will do anything to counter him. Otherwise, why would you even consider using it.
No Mither: Like Distressing, it has uses in niche builds when paired with Dead Hard and Resilience, but again, mostly a handicap.
This is Not Happening: You would only use it if you're bad at the game, and since you have to be injured for the perk to work, it'll only make things worse for you.
Furtive Chase: Changing obsessions is not worth all the baggage the perk comes with. The perk would be so close to being good, but fails miserably.
Deja Vu: Useful for avoiding a 3 gen, but eventually that mindset will become second nature to you, and you won't need this perk.
Cruel Limits: Blocks off vaults when it doesn't matter and doesn't last nearly long enough to capitalize on.
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I've been using Stake Out ever since I got the Saw DLC, and I've always championed it as my go-to underrated perk. It promotes a stealthy playstyle, which I prefer, and it's useful in both the main objective and healing others quickly to get them back on their feet. Even though it pales when going up against stealth killers, it's rarely let me down.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Fixated’s condition make sense if Nancy were being used by new players to the game, using only her teachables in order to get the Adept Nancy achievement.
Fixated is meant to teach the dangers of always running everywhere, and how scratch marks work, with the added benefit of making walking more frequently a less cumbersome way to get around.
Knowing this, it’s supposed to get Nancy players dealing with injuries ASAP, to restore Fixated. So never ignoring totems so that Inner Strength is ready, and when totems/lockers aren’t available Better Together let’s other players know where Nancy is without Nancy wasting time trying to find someone to heal her: she’s doing something useful with her time until somebody else can reach the same gen and heal her.
So there’s a kind of beautiful circle when you look at all 3 of Nancy’s perks as a whole.
This said, outside of specifically using just her 3 perks exclusively, the healthy condition makes no sense for any other player experimenting with builds using Fixated.
Pretty much everything you just said. I've heard Fixated is a pretty decent perk, but that weird limitation kind of discourages me from going out of my way to unlock it.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
I think it's a pretty solid perk, sometimes there's more than 1 survivor and someone else vaults first and gets the aura instead of the person I decided to chase.
I have had that happen to me before, and it's really annoying when it does happen. But it doesn't happen often enough to discourage me from using the perk.
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@Grimlin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1282845#Comment_1282845
Thanks I appreciate, I'm tired of just running a pile of the best perks on legion
Sure thing. To be clear, perks like Surge and Pop Goes the Weasel are some of the best perks to run on Legion. Those who are looking to win games should run these, but I can sometimes switch out Pop Goes the Weasel with Surveillance and still do well. Run what you think would be fun, you know what I mean?
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As a player who mains Pig and Legion, I will give you two builds for two particular playstyles. I'll call these builds, M1 Legion, and Frenzy Legion.
For M1 Legion builds, you'll want perks and addons that allow you to play like an M1 killer, as the name implies. For these builds, bring at least one cooldown addon and the following perks:
- Save the Best for Last OR I'm All Ears
- Surge
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- Thrilling Tremors OR BBQ and Chili
The idea with this build is to focus around landing normal hits. Whether you choose to do this after Feral Frenzy stabbing all the survivors at the start or even without doing that is your call to make. Save the Best for Last is great in this situation even if survivors choose to stay injured, because that makes Save the Best for Last even more dangerous. It's a good lethality perk in general and Legion can play around losing stacks by Feral Frenzy stabbing the Obsession. You could also switch out this perk for I'm All Ears, which is a perk for taking mindgames to the next level, allowing Legion to land that crucial second hit.
Surge and Pop Goes the Weasel are good for regressing generators, not much to say there. Surge in particular is good on Legion since they must finish the job with a normal M1 hit.
Thrilling Tremors or BBQ and Chili is up to personal preference. Bring Thrilling Tremors if you want to block off generators and know which generator to use Pop Goes the Weasel on. Bring BBQ and Chill if you want to find the next survivor to go after and if you're thirsty for bloodpoints.
For Frenzy Legion builds, you'll want to be making quick decisions on whether you should use your power on a healthy survivor and go after other survivors, or if it would be more worth your time to just go for normal hits. When you do commit to Feral Frenzy plays, the perks and addons you use should revolve around making survivors suffer while injured and punishing them for staying injured. For these builds, bring a duration addon, and either one of the blade addons (Nasty Blade or Filthy Blade) or the pin addons that apply Mangled or Broken (Defaced Smiley Pin or The Legion Pin), and the following perks:
- Blood Echo
- Thanatophobia
- Surge or Pop Goes the Weasel
- Thrilling Tremors, BBQ and Chili OR Ruin
Blood Echo and Thanatophobia are meant to hinder survivors if they choose to stay injured or pressure them to heal, which prevents them from working on generators all the time.
Surge, Pop Goes the Weasel, Thrilling Tremors and BBQ and Chili are all good for the reasons I stated before, but I also threw Ruin into the mix. Why? Since this build makes healing particularly troublesome, but almost necessary if survivors want to prevent you from snowballing, Ruin will serve to hinder generator progress while survivors attempt to mend and heal. Since it's a hex perk, use it at your own risk.
With both builds, feel free to mix and match perks that you think will serve you better. Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope this was useful.
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I usually go against survivors that understand that they have to mend by holding M1 or else they go down, but whenever a survivor does go down to Deep Wound, I have to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they're just very new. Considering Borrowed Time is an incredibly common perk that comes with Bill and that perk also requires people to mend Deep Wounds, I think survivors will quickly learn how to deal with it.
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With this post, I've completed my list of underrated Survivor perks. If there's any other perks you think I should talk about, let me know. For now, I'm moving on to the underrated Killer perks.
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Oh boy, I get to buff three things? There's quite a few I would make, but I'll try and list the ones I think I would most like to see.
- Cruel Limits buff. My idea for a buff would be to make the maximum range bigger (have the perk tiers be like 24/28/32 m), and to make the blocked window and vault locations permanent until another generator gets completed, and then the vaults around that location get blocked. It would make the perk have a much more threatening presence and cause survivors to reconsider running to the area of the recently completed generator, as it's effectively a dead zone now.
- Thanatophobia buff/rework. Mostly making the numbers stronger (4/4.5/5% penalty), but making it so it doesn't affect healing speeds. This would make it so that the perk is more of a hindrance to survivors that choose to stay injured and pressure them into healing more in order to keep them off generators, but the fact that it doesn't slow down healing speeds allows it to be countered despite its stronger numbers. I would also, maybe, allow the perk's effects to also include dead survivors in the action speed penalty, but I would prefer to see the previous change first.
- Hex: The Third Seal buff. I think this perk just needs a more threatening debuff to warrant it being a Hex perk, so I would also have the perk inflict the Oblivious status effect on basic attacks. I always saw this perk as an early-game/mid-game perk anyway, so encouraging survivors to find the Hex totem to get rid of the Oblivious status effect is fine. It's not one of those Hex perks that's meant to keep functioning the entire match like say Devour Hope or Huntress Lullaby (of course pretty much all of the Hex perks aside from Haunted Grounds and Retribution are best when kept for as long as possible), just long enough to cause issues for survivors that let it go unchecked.
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Edited my post to fix a couple typos. I have two more survivor perks in my list, and then I'll be moving onto killer perks.
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@Exerlin said:
I think it is an good perk, but I find Bond to be better in most scenarios. Generally, it's more useful to know what all is happening around you than it is to know exactly what's happening away from you, but Aftercare does have the unique effect of giving you information on what gens specific survivors are/aren't doing. Just seeing how a survivor moves is enough to tell what they're doing. However, its big drawback is that it leaves you in the dark about at least 2 other survivors most of the time. Not being able to see where the closest survivor is to get yourself healed can suck.
That is a good point. It really comes down to preference in some cases. Bond is definitely more consistent. But Aftercare letting me see everyone at once makes me feel like, "Yes, my children. We're in this together. I have eyes everywhere." Jeff's perks in general are pretty underrated, and I'm going to do another post about Distortion soon.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
I would love to have maskless Legion because their faces are scarier than their masks.
Susie looks amazing and creepy but we can't see her :(
I have seen the renders of Susie's face and I concur. Makes me think the Entity had to corrupt her more than the other members to get her to do its bidding.
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This is a really creative concept. My only issue is that the perk Spry is too strong. Survivors already vault pallets incredibly fast, any faster than that would be a nightmare. Maybe if it had a cooldown or if it was an Exhaustion perk it might be ok. Other than that, cool ideas.
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I'm going to copy-paste some stuff from my first comment, along with additional thoughts on Legion's balance.
I've been playing Legion ever since I bought the game when Plague was new, been through the ups and downs until we've arrived at the current version of Legion. I'm also a high purple rank - low red rank killer (if that means anything), so I think I can give some input. I want to get all of my thoughts down, so forgive the lengthy post.
I see Feral Frenzy in this way: it's a power that allows you to potentially injure multiple survivors at once, which was the intention behind the power, I'm sure. But the other part of Feral Frenzy that gets overlooked or devalued is the information. It's what allows you to know where to run in order to go frenzy stab other survivors, but it's also useful if you can't quite get to them in time, since you can decide to pressure the other survivors with normal hits or ignore them for the time being and chase down the survivor you just frenzy stabbed and finish them off.
The way I play Legion nowadays is to play them like an M1 killer for the most part, with an additional tool to gain information on other survivors. If I come across the first survivor, I first debate whether it's worth my time to use Feral Frenzy. Is the survivor by themselves? If so, then I'll try to hit them normally. If not, and there's one or two other survivors nearby, then I use Feral Frenzy, injure one, and chase down the others. If the survivor is alone and is trying to loop me around a pallet or some other structure, I wait until they drop the pallet or take the vault, use my power, get the frenzy stab, and look around to see if any other survivors happen to be close by. I usually leave the survivor I frenzy stabbed alone at that point if I know where the others are, since a survivor who has Deep Wounds has to tend to it at some point, and can't really afford to ignore it to work on a generator.
I do want to briefly talk about Deep Wounds, since it is a pretty lackluster debuff. I do wish Legion had a different debuff, but at this point, I kind of don't concern myself with it anymore. My goal as Legion isn't necessarily to apply Deep Wounds to everyone, it's to get everyone injured. Survivors often think it's better to not heal against Legion and just work on generators, since that denies the main benefit of Feral Frenzy. While that is true to an extent, smart Legions will abuse that mentality by running a build that punishes staying injured, like using the perk Blood Echo. And even if a survivor is injured, nothing's stopping Legion from frenzy stabbing you anyway for information. The ideal thing here is that survivors take time to heal each other to prevent Legion from snowballing them later, and the time spent healing is where Legion's main source of pressure comes from, at least to me.
The way Feral Frenzy works now, it's really frustrating that you lose Feral Frenzy gauge when attacking normally. It made sense in Legion's first iteration, when they could use the power whenever they wanted, pretty much. Now though, it's just another annoyance that keeps Legion from being the best they could be. To be clear, I don't think Legion is terrible. Their snowball potential is a real threat in the hands of a player that knows what they're doing. But things like losing Feral Frenzy meter when attacking normally and the unreasonably long fatigue, both of which punish players for playing well, do hold them back.
To summarize my thoughts on the balance of Legion:
- I don't believe they need a complete rework like Freddy got. They're not great, sure, but they're not terrible either. I think a "rework" on the level of Doctor might be warranted, where the nature of his power remained the same, but got an additional tool to assist him (Static Blast), and addons rebalanced to be less bad and more versatile.
- Mostly to make Legion a little better, they'll need QOL changes similar to the most recent one that allowed them to see blood and scratch marks during the fatigue. In my opinion, reducing the base fatigue to 3 seconds, and making it so they no longer lose 50% of their power meter when landing a normal hit. These two particular things would make Legion feel much better to play without changing a whole lot. They wouldn't become top tier (that's not really what I want anyway), but at the very least they might be mid tier.
I'm going to stop here now. Maybe I'll make a separate discussion providing more detailed thoughts for rebalancing.
Thank you for listening.😊