TigerSnake
TigerSnake
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- TigerSnake
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How often do you even run into Hemorrhage? Sloppy Butcher’s good, but not too terribly common, and then there’s the occasional Begrimed Head or Thorny Nest. Everything else I can think of though (Gift of Pain, Blood Echo, Freddy’s addons) are just not that good. Even though it’s hard countered by Hemorrhage, Resurgence is still very good, and I’m willing to bet you won’t really run into Hemorrhage very often.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369884#Comment_3369884
To play devil's advocate, it isn't always about strength. Sometimes it's about the kind of gameplay that a perk or addon or what have you encourages, and whether that gameplay is the kind of thing you want to be popular and common. Many would argue, and I do see their point, that jealously defending a 3-gen with repeated CoB/Overcharge kicking isn't particularly engaging gameplay for anyone and things that make it popular should be changed.
“Not engaging” for survivors you mean. On the flip side, chasing one guy around a bunch of strong pallets or windows for at least a minute isn’t fun. Not all of us even want to kick gens constantly without ever going into chase. Therefore CoB OC should be left alone as they’re essential to keep gens under control without having to overcommit to a chase, especially when the perks that give benefits once chases are won aren’t even that good anymore.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369839#Comment_3369839
Are you seriously saying that blight wouldn’t be oppressive without CoB overcharge? Most blights don’t even bother with them because he can get downs so quickly and is better off with PR
Obviously excluding Nurse and Blight since they’re literally in their own universe. Everyone else though would have no good perks for defending gens and would suffer immensely.
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I don’t even think they’ve fixed the wagon on DDS yet either.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
I don't really think it needs to be nerfed, it's only as strong as old ruin but you had to kick instead of chase off, it's only broken when combined with eruption but since that has been changed its not bad at all
This 101% over.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369876#Comment_3369876
Defending gens, that doesn't mean kicking. You can make perfectly viable builds or play styles where you don't kick a single gen. You can have 4 slowdowns and not kick a single gen. You don't need 12 hooks to win, and i doubt most people try to go for 12 hooks. If you go i applaud you, but i don't care about it.
Besides, the biggest objective is to kill the survivor, i just don't think that if this two perks are so valuable that makes killers stop wanting to chase survivors just to kick gens, that is a problem. If the killer gets the best slowdown from chases and downs i think the game is more enjoyable for both sides. That's my opinion
Maybe that’s cause the issue here is that they released a killer so weak that there’s no incentive to go for chases especially when the power’s literally only good for defending gens. Chases as a whole don’t favor killers very well, which is why some people prefer to defend gens, especially when some maps are basically unplayable if you don’t play for a 3 gen, like The Game for example. Let’s not gatekeep how people should play the game, especially when a lot of us use CoB OC cause they’re the best perks for obliterating kicked gens considering Pop is ######### dead.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369422#Comment_3369422
Some Gen Regression Perks would be nice. Maybe Killer players would actually get better at the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369428#Comment_3369428
Be careful what you wish for. Last time they changed Calm Spirit they thought it was a buff. And since then I have seen the Perk used even less (and it was super-niche to begin with).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369561#Comment_3369561
There is a difference between buffing Perks a lot and making them unhealthy. Your examples are Perks which got buffed into unhealthy, because being unable to do anything for 25 seconds was just dumb. And Thana was a problem on certain Killers (which it still is, yet less people are running Thana on Legion or Plague, probably because there are enough attractive Slowdown-Perks around).
However, I would say that Buffs like Off the Record and Lethal Pursuer were really well done. I mean, you can argue that Off the Record also benefits from DS nerfed into being basically useless, but I can totally see OTR being used with 5 second DS as well. And I would not consider OTR problematic.
And Lethal Pursuer was already decent, but the additional effect made the Perk a lot more attractive to use since you did not have the feeling that you are playing with 3 Perks after a few seconds.
So it is possible to buff weaker Perks. The Devs just need to be more smart with it and test it - because I highly doubt they tested Eruption enough.
Yeah dude, extra .5 progress reduction to Thana was so broken. And no one runs current Thana cause it’s ######### garbage, how on earth is it still a problem?
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You’re just making gen defense even worse with those suggestions lmao.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369831#Comment_3369831
You don't win by kicking gens, you win by killing survivors. That is your objective, not kick gens, that is a killer tool.
Thats like saying survivor's mission is to cleanse totems, you can do it, but nothing forces you to do it. So maybe you might want to start and read what i am trying to say instead of just being aggressive for no reason.
And you kill survivors by slowing them down to where they can’t finish their objective quickly. Can’t expect people to 12 hook without defending gens when necessary.
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@Phasmamain said:
The only real advice here is bring perks but even the likes of potential energy can only do so much against Call of brine and overcharge
The problem is the perks right now. Call of brine and overcharge are designed around 3 genning and reward constantly kicking the same gen without interaction with the survivors
Change them and I doubt merchant and knight would be oppressive in any real way
No killer would be “oppressive in any real way” if you nerfed those.
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@BlueHorkew said:
CoB and OC are the perks giving strength to this strategy. Rework or nerf them so regression is awarded for chases and progressing the game and this would be less viable.
Perks like Corrupt and deadlock already passively slowdown the game if the killer isn't doing well in chases, but CoB and OC are just handholding and rewarding killers that purposely avoid doing their mission, which is kill survivors and chase them, removing the interaction between killer and survivor
Not well enough, also kicking gens is one of the “missions” for killer, don’t pull ######### out of your ass.
@IrlClownMain said:
The old meta featured completely different perks compared to what we have now, so your comparison to old dbd falls a little flat. For ruin, before the broken form of undying, you had one totem and it could be broken meaning your 3 gen wasn't as strong. And with Pop, the activation condition meant you couldn't just sit by gens all day kicking them, you actually had to chase. But with how cob eruption and over charge work, there's absolutely no way of stopping it from being applied. Since neither one of those perks has a special condition killers can kick the same 3 gens over and over with little to no counter play.
Ruin still facilitated 3 gens then and it would do so now, especially if you dedicated more slots to totem perks. Someone like SM could easily use it to great success, by guarding a totem on top of their 3 gen. Costless fast regression is necessary, and with Ruin gone, Call of Brine and Overcharge need to stay.
@Strawhat said:
I do think survivors should be able to 3 gen themselves if they aren't paying attention, but killer being able to maintain a 3 gen from match start and be rewarded for it against most survivors is stupid.
They could start by nuking Azarov's Resting Place and Suffocation Pit because those maps always feel like "3 Gen or Lose"
And make the maps even more survivor sided? No thanks.
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“We hear your complaints, and have decided to nerf SM and COB OC for the time being. Thanks for your understanding.”
-BHVR
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Killers do not have a variety of playing styles. Not with all the nerfs that have hit, including the scream changes no one asked for.
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Not looking forward to it. Killer’s gonna be in a very bad spot after this hits. Especially when it’s implied that DH ain’t going anywhere.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
3 gens have always been a thing but they’ve never been as obnoxious as they have been since last summer. It’s both a perk problem and a killer problem.
In order to fix it you’d need to address killers that are over-reliant on it (Skull Merchant included) and then address the perks (CoB and OC) that are exacerbating the issue. The Eruption nerf was just step 1. Gen-kick meta is making the game stale and something needs to change.
Nerfing CoB and OC would not stop the problem, especially when there’s no good way of nerfing them without ruining them. Plus, OC is already weak enough as is.
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I agreed until I got to Eyrie. That map is not better in the slightest.
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I hate how the shrine seems to cycle through exclusively the same exact perks. What’s up with that?
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That stuff can affect Overcharge too right?
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I still don’t think her 3 gen is as strong as people make it out to be, but designing a killer with only the power to guard things and nothing to help in chase is objectively flawed.
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Mindlessly chase different survivors and lose.
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Perk is hot ass. I tried to like it, but it is not good at all. Information is already lackluster enough as is, while FTD’s info is ruined by being a Hex that can deactivate beyond the survivors’ cleansing the totem (good luck with this perk against 4 medkits) and the fact that they have to be outside your TR. Perk’s only useful in strats with Thrill on certain killers to make other objectives nearly impossible. In other words, it facilitates stupid strategies that are no fun for anyone in particular.
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That’s my favorite as well.
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People need to stop complaining about 3 gens as there’s no way to eliminate them without severely tilting the game in the survivors’ favor. Even nerfing CoB and OC wouldn’t stop someone like Skully from doing it.
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Yeah, while I get why people hate SM so much, I think a lot of other killers can do 3 gen plays just as well as she can, if not worse. People need to realize that 3 gen strats can’t be eliminated very easily without severely ruining the game for killers. They should just rework SM to have more uses in other ways than just 3 gens since the others can play in ways beyond just hardcore guarding a 3 gen.
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I’d buy. I don’t even like Artist that much, but I’d buy it.
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Worst part is I doubt they’ll do anything to this killer since she’s brand new. They’ll probably just nerf Call of Brine and Overcharge and call it a day.
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Remember when people insisted Eruption was the problem and said I was overreacting when I said people would complain about Call of Brine next? Lmfao.
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Hope y’all get it fixed soon, today’s my day off and I was wanting to play.
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I predict Call of Brine and Overcharge will take the fall for SM’s sins.
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You spelled “Call of Brine and Overcharge” wrong.
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Most likely:
Buff her chase power in exchange for weakening her 3 gen power.
Nerfs to Call of Brine and Overcharge.
Although in all honesty, I must ask how Skull Merchant’s 3 gen power compares to other killers. Is she the strongest killer when it comes to locking down an area, or is the community way overblowing it since she’s new?
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@Saiph said:
Trapper does not need a buff. He's already extremely obnoxious. People are just stuck with this myth that "Trapper is a weak M1 killer" because they blindly quote Otzdarva, but they don't realize that 1) Otz rates killers without add-ons, and 2) DH nerf was massive for Trapper.
Trapper is one of the most addon dependent killers. If you play him without addon he's weak as #########, but with his best add-ons he's an A-tier killer at least. So if they buff him they should nerf his strong add-ons first (iri stone especially), otherwise prepare for a rise in DCs.
DH still ######### over Trapper just as hard as any other killer even though you can’t dash through his traps anymore. And while his Iri’s help a lot, he’s still an M1 who has to pick up and set traps which aren’t even that good in the first place.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's a problem with both the killer designs and the perks themselves. PGTW was healthy because you had to succeed at something for that level of regression. And Ruin at 200% was healthy because it required active gameplay and was counterable by cleansing. You couldn't have that regression indefinitely. The devs made the mistake of not examining the "why" before they addressed the "what".
CoB/Overcharge is an unhealthy synergy because the killer doesn't have to succeed at anything to get a great level of regression and it doesn't go away at any point in the trial. It's possible from the start until the end, and it only requires a gen kick to achieve with no preconditions like a successful chase and hook. It leads to a very boring and overly long game.
Interesting, weren’t you the one that insisted Eruption was the problem and that “CoB and Overcharge aren’t in the same stratosphere as problematic design because they don’t give them all their time back with 0 counterplay”?
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366213#Comment_3366213
Because it’s being abused to a ridiculous degree. These thirty minute attrition games are not it. I really don’t understand how people can defend it. It’s not even rare anymore. Games like this are very common now and are frankly a waste of time. I personally have other things to do and don’t have time to sit in multiple 30+ minute matches every day. That’s why you see so many people just give up against killers who hard commit to a three gen.
There’s no way to eliminate 3 gen strats without severely tilting the game into the survivors favor. That leaves us with either.
-Stop designing trash can killers who are only good at defending gens.
-Nerfing CoB and Overcharge.
No one would be upset about the 1st option occurring, but the 2nd one’s a problem because assuming nothing else is added as compensation, killer will be left in a very miserable state as there’ll no good perks left for controlling gens, making playing for hooks and playing M1 killer’s completely unviable.
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Wouldn’t even care if they nerfed it to the ground after what they’ve done to the other perks.
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Well, if you don’t, especially with weak killers, you lose.
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People want 3 gens dead, and they want tunneling dead. I think you guys would be happier playing against perkless bots.
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Survivor’s always been easier and less stressful. Only time it sucks is if you get bad teammates or a massive sweat lord of a killer.
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What’s funny is Eruption’s not even enough to stop the 3 gen whining. Just like I predicted.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366197#Comment_3366197
What killer actually needs either? If anything PR and jolt are better for general gameplay assuming you’re not going in with the intention of camping a 3 gen
People that need to kick gens especially without overcommitting to one chase to get a down for their perks. Base regression and base 2.5 damage suck, so people want good perks that increase those, and of course, Pop is mediocre, so that’s not an option either.
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Now there’s a good reason to hit on hook.
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So you want every good regression perk to get nerfed and make every killer especially the weak ones suffer immensely? Hell to ######### no! Call of Brine and Overcharge are fine perks which are very much needed for other killers besides Skull Merchant to stand a chance. Take them away, and killer will be in a very abysmal state with no good perks period, for 3 gens or not.
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Pain Resonance should be unaffected, but Mandy’s stated that they’re looking into changes. Hopefully the verdict is reversal.
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It’s already been stated to not be live for this week cause of the booster rates for Shelter Woods and Red Forest.
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Sabo’ing or bodyblocking for someone to wiggle out should never be easy or reliable. I have no proof if hook closeness has gotten worse or not, but can’t say it’d be a bad thing considering the instances where killers couldn’t get to hooks were not good times.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365271#Comment_3365271
If map balance doesn't have an impact on kill rates, then what exactly is the issue? What makes these maps unbalanced? They're less "fun" even though you win on them just as much?
I just said what made them unbalanced. Newbies over inflate the kill rates cause they don’t know how to take advantage of the bs on the maps, let alone loop. That’s why those statistics are meaningless.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362371#Comment_3362371
Yes a rework done right, went from the worst map for killer to one of the most balanced in the game.
Lol.
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I play a wide variety of killers, I shouldn’t have to be forced to just play a select few cause of one ######### perk.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364421#Comment_3364421
Comparing one skilless thing to another is irrelevant
So one should be left alone, while the other needs to go. Double standards.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364386#Comment_3364386
I mean killers wanting to end the game quick is perfectly fine, I don't know how you got that from my comment. I don't like slog games that have very little skill expression on either side. Depending on what unfun means for you, the things included in that may or may not be toxic. A killer tunneling me or playing with strong perks to win is fine. A killer playing a 3 gen all game is a waste of my time.
I have run into one actually toxic killer in all my survivor gameplay. I regularaly run into squads who want to bully me, but I am not playing a weak killer and am equip to deal with it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364404#Comment_3364404
I mean, I mained hag for months after I started playing. Always setting up a web around a 4-gen. But playing now with perks that are really good at holding 3-4 gens, it's just boring and unskillful regardless of the killer.
As if “shift W predrop” takes skill….