Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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@Nathan13 said:
We know one of the health updates coming to DBD this year is an MMR update, so do we think this game won’t base your MMR off of kills and escapes anymore??? I really wonder whats gonna happen with that.
LOL are you insinuating that in fact kills do not equal skills?
Joking aside, I'm sure it'll be some barely noticeable tweak.
The kind of overhaul it would take to make SBMM actually useful isn't something BHVR is interested in, I fear.
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On balance? Yeah, I'm having fun playing solo queue. I've been doing it for half of my 6K hours and I keep doing it, so I must be (or I'm a masochist).
But match to match (or hour to hour) it's a roller coaster for sure. I escape somewhere around 35-40% of the time overall, but I might have a play session where I don't escape once. Bot otoh, I have days where I escape left and right. Heck, yesterday I escaped in seven consecutive matches. That's not a normal thing by any means, but just it's feast or famine out there.
But I think solo isn't that bad, and a lot of people get too caught up in the moment when things are not going well. I do get it, some days playing solo queue feels like an exercise in abject futility, but those moments pass. So much of the solo experience is based on RNG/SBMM, and we can't control that. And that's why taking it too seriously is a bad idea. But people saying it's "unplayable" may or may not need to relax.
I often wonder how many people who feel the most aggrieved by solo normally play in a SWF. Because yeah, if that's your baseline experience, solo is gonna feel awful.
I also wonder how many people just give up/stop really trying when things start to go sideways and then complain about how they never escape.
But the game is designed around a 60% killer win rate, so to me, the solo experience seems like it's as it is intended to be. I mean you're supposed to go into every match feeling like death is at least the most likely outcome (though not a certainty, even if it feels like that some days). The SWF experience is the one that isn't "normal".
But you can't play solo queue and let your escape rate dictate your fun. I mean you can, but that mindset is incompatible with sanity.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897300#Comment_3897300
"To win most of your games"
"These teams are rare"
Doesn't matter, these teams exist, so unfortunately if you are playing to win, you have to play like the enemy is eternal, because if you don't, and it turns out they are, you will lose. You have to play hard from the start.
Yes, these teams do exist, and yes, they are relatively rare (yes, even at "TOP MMR").
I know it's largely a difference of ideology, but I don't get playing like a dripping sweatlord who plays with the hammer down 100% of the time because in 1 or 2/10 games you play you
willmay face a team that will beat you if you don't. Is that level of risk not acceptable? Is winning most of your games not enough? Do you need minimize the chance that you lose at all?IMO that mindset is only really appropriate in actual comp settings.
I mean in public matches there is such a mixed bag of bad SBMM/RNG and perhaps most importantly people playing different styles and with different priorities that taking winning so seriously seems absurd. At best. Yes, the fact that bad game design is largely the reason winning 90%+ of your games is even remotely possible, and that is technically BHVRs doing, but realistically this isn't a serious game, and was never intended to be.
And does winning all of your matches in a game where SBMM doesn't work and conservatively half of all players are either bad or goofing off really mean anything?
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897419#Comment_3897419
It is a game design problem, if you are in the camp of "its ok because these teams are rare" then you must also believe that nurse needs to be buffed right? Because MOST nurses you go against have her at a below 50% win rate, and she is one of the lowest kill rate killers in the game.
You know better than that. Nurse's kill rate is lower because her skill floor is higher than others. Not obscenely high, but new Nurses have to eat dirt until they get their arms around her a bit. And lots of brand new killers try her out because they heard she was the best, and they eat the most dirt of all.
But high MMR Nurses are killing machines who need no help from anyone. The bad Nurses pretty much live a the lower levels.
Her numbers are deceptive, and anyone who has been around the block a time or two knows that.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897490#Comment_3897490
oh I completely agree. I’m not trying to imply many of those changes shouldn’t have happened, but we seem to be at a point now where we are constantly forgetting the amount of changes that actually have been made to support the killer play base and just want to lambast any changes that get made for survivors. It’s really irksome that any time a survivor gets or petitions for a change they’re ‘getting their hands held’ but killers conveniently forget all of the above that has been done to make the game more accessible for them.
Yeah, like most things, it's just a lack of perspective. These people either don't know or forgot what the state of the game used to be. But sadly I think that many players are so partisan to one role or the other that it's just all confirmation bias and anything the other side has is too much.
Generally speaking, I feel like DBD is as close to balance has it has ever been (though actual, total balance in this game is a pipe dream).
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897176#Comment_3897176
Or, if we are looking at how the game has really been affected for killers
- addition of bloodlust
- Additions of blocks to vaults when used three or more times in quick succession
- Increase in vault speed
- Change to hooks so they cannot be permanently broken with a tool box
- Change to hooks so they respawn following a sacrifice
- Change to hook spawns so they consistently spawn closer together
- Change to BNP so it doesn’t auto complete a gen
- Nerfs to toolboxes
- Nerfs to medipacks
- Changing the hatch so it doesn’t spawn mid match anymore and only one person can escape as opposed to three
- Implementation of continuous gen regression
- removal of many ‘infinites’
- Changes to loops in general to a more unsafe design both historically and recent e.g blocking up a second window in the shack and putting holes in buildings where vaults were before
- Nerfs to gens speeds
- Making maps smaller to increase map pressure/mobility
This is all just changes to base gameplay and how the game works at its core . It’s before we even start to look at the changes to perks caused by killers not being happy with them which would have plenty of comments. This rhetoric of ‘BHVR only changes the game for survivors and killers get nothing ’ really needs to end because it’s just not true.
To be fair, most of those changes had to happen. DBD back then was obscenely survivor sided. Like to the degree of comical absurdity.
Which is why I would invite people complaining about survivors having their hands held now to take a trip back in time to see what handholding actually looked like. Hell, even just pre-6.1.0 would be a shock to the system for a lot of people.
I don't think killer is OP, but it's generally in as good a shape as it has ever been.
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No idea if it's related or not (probably not), but I had a couple days this week where the first 4-5 killers I faced all had pings of 200+ (I always start my session with surv to warm up). I made a note of it in my head, but didn't think much else of it. But it would make sense if someone had been assigned to the wrong region somehow.
Nothing to the extent Scott's describing, though.
I play in the US Western region, usually at what Scott calls degen hours, but on those days I played earlier in the day.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897455#Comment_3897455
true but I don’t know the last time I seen Billy, nurse, spirit, or Dracula. It seems to only be blight
Same, really. I see different killers, but if I were to draw up a pie chart, like a full third of it would be sweaty Blights. A third may not sound like a lot, but in a game with like 40 killers, it's pretty remarkable.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Comp SWF> Killer
>everything else
SoloQ is just a different game mode where you load up and roll dice.
Which is funny because soloQ is the majority of matches.
And BHVR, along with the player base, want to continue making it not balanced at all towards soloQ.It doesn't even have to be a "Comp" SWF, but a good one. But despite what some may claim, (that every other match is against a god SWF) even those are like less than 5% of total matches, I would guess. And an actual, legit comp SWF is a white elephant in public matches. I've been playing killer for going on six years and I bet I could count the times I've faced one on one hand and have a finger or two left.
When you take beatings like that, you remember them.
And I really bristle at people just categorizing "killer" like it's this monolithic thing; the killer experience varies wildly depending on a number of variables: which killer you're playing, what MMR you're playing at (to the degree that it actually matters), what maps you draw, etc.
For myself, play a relatively even killer/surv split, but while my surv experience is pretty consistent, my killer experience varies. I play several killers consistently, but my "mains" aren't considered strong killers: Onryo, Plague, Myers, Clown, Demo, and Dredge. Even amongst those the difficulty varies. Now I also often play some lower (Trapper, Legion) and higher (Huntress, PH, Artist, Spirit) and the differences there are often massive.
At lower MMR all killer plays pretty easy, but as you move up the tiers really start to differentiate. At certain point, like half the killers aren't even viable if you're prioritizing winning. I guarantee I don't play most of the killers I do because winning is my top priority.
Sweaty, highly experienced killer players maining Nurse/Blight/Billy/Etc. are having an entirely different experience.
As far a surv goes, this balancing problem is and has always been how to buff solo without buffing SWF into untouchable status. And to be fair to BHVR, I feel like they have done a lot of good things on that front in recent times (I still think the new surv HUD has been more transformative than people give credit for).
But solo is still pretty rough, and as you say solo players make up the clear majority of all surv players, and is the biggest block of DBD players in general.
But even in solo there is a lot of variance, and it's down to the matchmaking/backfilling. Most of the games I play are your typical hodgepodge of vets and potatoes. But every so often SBMM matches up four solid solo players that end up being as good or better than your average SWF. It's nice when that happens, though somewhat rare.
It'd be nice if that was the norm.
People act like there are two camps in DBD, I'd say there are more like five or six.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896601#Comment_3896601
I don't think so. I think it's still survivor sided, just because of its size, and because almost every pallet is a god pallet.
Are we talking about Badham or Haddonfield? Because yeah, Badham is clearly still survivor sided; the nerf to it didn't change the dynamics much at all. Haddonfield is an entirely different story.
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Yes, the majority of the killer roster is not strong, and more often than not you have to fight for your life as a B/C/D tier killer player. If you're say, an Onryo main, people crying about how easy killer is seems ridiculous.
But the issue is that in a given surv play session (at anything above bottom tier MMR), at least half your games (if not more) are going to be against S/A tier killers.
Because the strongest killers often have the highest pick rates, DBD can feel killer sided. That most of the killer roster is weak doesn't mean much to you when you're facing your fifth consecutive Blight.
And solo is solo; a total mixed bag. Good SWFs are the strongest thing in the game by far, but strong SWFs aren't all that common.
There's just no consistency/standard in DBD, which is why making blanket generalizations is so stupid.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
Did you run into the Hardcore Survivor team (Hens, Otz, Ayrun, JRM) maybe?
Maybe not them but other very good players trying the same challenge. Or maybe it was them. Expert players trying that challenge was my first thought here.
Or maybe just dbags smurfing.
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@KerJuice said:
When did you guys start playing? Both Badham and Eyrie have already been nerfed. Both were shrunken in size and Eyrie was nerfed at least twice already with the god pallet removed in main, and the newer 50/50 tiles added.
If every map gets the Wrecker’s Yard treatment, playing Solo Que survivor at lower to mid levels will be brutal.
I've been playing for almost six years.
Badham has been nerfed, but it was more of a glancing blow than a direct hit; it didn't really change the balance of power there at all.
The Eyrie nerf was much more significant. But the problem with Eyrie wasn't so much the size imo, and it really screws a few killers in particular, which was always the problem.
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Sometimes they spawn in really out of the way places, and sometimes they spawn with a flashing neon sign above them. But it's just another way in which RNG matters more than skill in this game. As a surv, I almost feel bad for the killer when I spawn quite literally on top of a lit totem.
But TBH I also feel like killer is stronger now than it used to be, and it isn't as big a deal as it once was. 3-4 years ago when the game was heavily skewed towards surv and totem value could make or break a match, it felt pretty bad. Especially after Undying was nerfed.
But now losing something like Ruin in the first few minutes doesn't feel as much like doom as it once did.
That said, having a totem blocker active for the first 2-3 minutes seems like a fair idea. You shouldn't be guaranteed value for the most of (or the whole) match, but losing a totem in the first 60 seconds is probably a bit much. Also, I don't think they totems should be too hard to find, but some of the really out in the open spawn sites should be removed.
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It's kind of wild how many far less problematic maps have been drastically changed, while the most imbalanced map in the game (Badham) has remained largely untouched.
I think they probably just don't want to deal with it. With all the variants, attempting to balance it is going to be a lot of work.
@Aven_Fallen said:
Eyrie of Crows will be nerfed with the next Patch. And if you have problems on MacMillan… I really dont know. The original Maps are some of the most balanced Maps in the game and the variants are pretty killer-sided.
I agree that they should to changes to Badham. But then again, they can also do some changes to Haddonfield, since this is basically Badham in reverse.
Badham had been a bigger problem for longer, but the Haddonfield thing is is really perplexing. Old Haddonfield was egregiously survivor sided, but when they re-worked (well, remade) it, I actually thought it was balanced overall. The houses were strong for survs, but there were a lot of dead zones that were great for killer.
But then they took all of the parts that were good for survs away, and turned it into a near guaranteed killer win. They didn't take some of the strong windows, they took all of them. It's kind of the same approach they take to perks and the like; either they make barely noticeable changes or they just nuke the thing from orbit. They just don't seem to know how to be even handed with changes.
But that said, I think Badham should be a bigger priority. There are more surv sided than killer sided maps, even with recent changes, and Badham has held the crown for ages.
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@jajay119 said:
Do we really need this exact same thread every week? The answers won't have changed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439412/is-slugging-an-actual-issue
lol, you new here?
This forum is like a skipping record
Not disagreeing, but asking people to stop posting redundantly here is like asking water to stop being wet
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I play mainly on PS5 (occasionally on PC), and after lots of salty messages I set my messaging to friends only. Now at least a couple times a week someone from a match I just played will send me a friend request, ostensibly so they can message me. Experience tells me one of the three things is the case:
- They have some beef and desperately need me to hear how I wronged them (somehow) or how bad I am at DBD
- They really want to say GG
- They want to have a wholesome exchange or be my friend
Now #2 or #3 would be nice, but my strong feeling is that 90% of the time it's #1. Again, experience. And you are probably feeling something if you're going to go through the trouble of a friend request just so you can send a message.
And I ignore them all. And sometimes I feel bad because maybe that person was just looking for a friendly connection. But it really is just better that way, if for my own mental health, if nothing else (so if any other PS players here send me a request, don't take it personally if I don't accept, lol).
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Some people just need to point the finger. Half of these gnarly postgame exchanges are fueled by people trying to convince themselves that they're not the ones who screwed up. The other half are just childish venting.
And I have no problem with a cursory GG, but I also feel like saying GG after you just thrashed someone(s) feels…patronizing.
Now many postgames are wholesome, but years ago I made the decision to just wall myself off from all postgame chat/messaging, and that may be the best decision I have made regarding DBD.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
we just need all the people on this forum who keep telling us that the game is way too killer-sided and they get easy 4Ks every match to post some of their gameplay videos so we can all learn how to play stress-free
It's not even that people saying that aren't actually winning. It's that a lot of the people who say "oh, and I do play both sides" do play some killer, but haven't played nearly enough to even hit the soft cap. Low level killer is really, really easy. Especially if you're an experienced surv player who comes in with that developed game sense.
But having a couple hundred hours in killer tells you nothing about what it's like at a thousand hours plus. Just about anyone who has climbed the ranks as killer will tell you there is a jarring difficulty spike. In the cases of people who say they 4K 90%+ of their matches, one of these things is almost certainly the case:
- They're lying (or at least heavily embellishing)
- They're extrapolating from a tiny sample size
- They haven't played enough killer to start playing actual competition with any consistency
- They've got thousands of hours in killer, probably main an S or A tier killer, and sweat their asses off
But again, this topic isn't really about the winning or losing, but how the nature of the two roles contribute to anxiety. Because the killer is the one in the 1v4, the player simply has to actively manage much more than a surv player. You can get totally frazzled while winning and be totally unfazed while losing.
Even though I was winning more often than not, I experienced more stress in hours 500-750 (when I first hit that aforementioned difficulty spike) as a killer than in my 3K+ total hours as a solo queue surv combined.
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@jedimaster505 said:
Anxiety from having your 4K streak broken? Solo Q is 10x worse and I play both sides.
Hard disagree.
It's subjective, but for me there is almost no anxiety whatsoever when playing surv. And I have thousands of hours playing strictly solo queue. There's just no pressure at all, really. I mean you know going into each match knowing you're probably going to die.
Now I don't often get killer anxiety anymore (except the occasional match where I face an actual high tier SWF and my comp brain kicks in), but when I was in my first few hundred hours I did.
A bit of an anecdote, back in 2020 I had a little bit of a heart arrhythmia and my doc gave me a wearable monitor for about a week. When I went back in to discuss the results, they asked me what I had been doing late at night because there were lots of sustained heart rate spikes. The times were noted, and they were all when I was playing DBD (I was a killer main back then).
IMO, the reasons why killer is more anxiety inducing are:
- You have to manage many more variables; you have to play the meta game, managing four survss, 16 perks, etc. As a surv, it's a series of 1v1 interactions broken up by long stretches of downtime. Killer is all go, all the time.
- As the killer, you should win. At least that's the conventional wisdom. And with expectation comes pressure.
- As a killer, you are almost solely responsible for the outcome of the match (well, and RNG). As surv, responsibility is diffused over the whole team. And if you lose, you often have someone else to blame (whether they actually are or not).
- Many killers, including myself, play mostly B/C tier killers and have to fight for their lives to win. Not every killer is a 10K hour Blight/Nurse main just cruising to 4Ks.
- Survs are more likely to let you hear it after match. I mean statistically, since it's 4v1.
Now don't mistake all of this as saying it's harder to win as killer. It surely isn't, at least when we're talking about solo queue. It's just more stressful, and imo, it isn't remotely close.
Now what I did to alleviate that were two things:
- I started playing a lot of survivor. Over my last 4K hours or so, I'm probably a 60/40 surv/killer player, and close to 3K/3K overall.
- I totally disabled all avenues for others to communicate with me in game and in platform. Now I just play how I want and don't worry about it.
And just spending so much time in the game that I realized that it is so inherently imbalanced that it's kind of pointless to take it seriously.
So yeah, imo there isn't a clean correlation between winning or losing and stress level.
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If we're talking about jumpscares, absolutely I still get got. But half the time it's not a killer, but a surv just camping a random pallet for no earthly reason and just drops it on my face.
Or scratched mirror Myers on an indoor map. And you know it's coming, but it still gets you. Which is why SM Myers can be about as fun as this game gets.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3894016#Comment_3894016
FWIW I've gotten two in-game notifications over the past couple weeks that my in-game reports were actioned on. Both were for cheaters and neither of them I reported on the website with video evidence. From what I understand, others may have reported them also but we all get the notification when action is taken.
Same experience here. I play mostly on console so the process of submitting video is a little more involved and I don't usually do it, but in a recent case the cheating was so blatant that I assumed one of my PC teammates would report as well. It was only a few days later I got the action report notification.
Since they started doing the notifications, every time I have submitted evidence I've subsequently received the notification of action.
Granted that total is less than five, but they are doing something.
I think the bigger issue are the subtle cheaters. I imagine it's harder to parse through tons of reports with only limited evidence. Like the other night I was facing a Wesker who I am all but certain was running some sort of hack to see our locations (there was nothing in their build to account for knowing exactly where we were at all times), but I didn't bother reporting. There just have to be so many of those.
When the cheating is blatant with video evidence, it's a much simpler process. I have little confidence the really subtle stuff gets dealt with.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
They'll never change it because content creators will cry if they have to actually play against people equally sweaty every game
That and their whole current "TOP MMR/LEVEL" , "I only play with and against golden gods of DBD" headlining will be exposed as the outright fallacy that it is. That's not every creator, but we know who these people are.
But I think one of the bigger problems is what strict matchmaking would do to queue times. A few years back they did SBMM testing with different settings and the most effective ones (seemingly) came with brutal queue times. Some people might tolerate that, but most won't.
And I don't think most people really want super tight matchmaking. Only a select few really want to be fighting for their lives every match. I'd settle for seeing the wild misplacements, like a 50 hour player thrown in with a bunch of multiple thousand hour veterans, completely eliminated. You should never see players with such massive disparities in experience in the same match. And it happens. All. The. Time.
And that's mostly down to the backfilling.
And of course another known massive issue that the MMR criteria are a joke. That would have to be totally overhauled before real SBMM refinement could happen. And that is something BHVR has not shown an appetite to take on.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893821#Comment_3893821
The problem with Nurse is that she is fundamentally unbalanced because of the way her power works. I can see why people think that a longer cooldown would help but it would only affect mediocre Nurse players while the ones that actually know how to play her would be just as unbearable as they are now.
And that's why I am against blunt nerfs to her. Nurse becomes problematic, when the person playing her reaches a certain skill level. Anyone that is below that can be beaten quite easily for the most part.
Nurse needs a rework. She ignores fundamental game mechanics and is one of the only killers that can counterplay her own counterplay.
Agreed. Years ago I used to think her skill floor was higher than it is, but I don't anymore. And once you pass that floor, you're just playing a different game that effectively ignores the mechanics every other killer has to contend with.
And yeah, the problem is that there is no meaningful way to nerf Nurse that isn't just fundamentally changing her entire power. Basically make her different killer. But I don't think BHVR will ever do that because it would basically disenfranchise every long time Nurse main.
Should they? Yes. Will they? No. "Nerf the Nurse" has been a constant cry for years and years, but I don't ever see it happening.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893586#Comment_3893586
If those people are the overwhelming majority, the game will die with increased DC penalties and no hook suicides.
I do not think that is the case, but time will tell, I suppose.
More likely, the increased inconvenience of going next will simply dissuade many of them from going next. As others have said, all that needs to happen to really curtail this problem is for going next to become just enough more of a pain than playing the match out.
And seriously, if playing the game is miserable enough that people will quit over being made to actually play the game they logged on to play, they probably needed to just move on anyway. And some people will quit. Most will just get over it.
I've long felt that most people who quit do so impulsively in the moment, and if given just another few moments to get over the thing that triggered them, they'll just get on with the game.
I suppose we'll find out.
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@Pulsar said:
What other posters here do not seem to account for is that this is likely not the first strike in these players' minds.
Yes, there are some people that will DC for nothing, but they are the VAST minority. Most people hop on to try to play some DBD and are met with frustrating match after frustrating match.
That causes burnout over time. Matches where you feel it was unfair or got tunneled or got camped or got slugged AND you don't get anything more than a paltry smattering of points for your efforts in being a good sport and playing them out, well, those matches add up until you eventually get something like this. All we see is someone raging after being downed, but that's all WE can see, not all that they've experienced.
A good start is addressing some problematic mechanics, true. I think they need to look at rewards for Survivors as well and scrap the MMR system entirely. Survivors get such low BP in general, which is a real kick-while-your-down when you just endured a whole bunch of miserable matches. Imo, BP cap should go, and max BP should be 64K for a perfect match. BP boosting offerings should be more common, BPS shouldn't be rarer than Syringes.
As for MMR, they either need to commit to the game being "competitive" and show us MMR or scrap it entirely and go back to an Emblem-esque system.
"Yes, there are some people that will DC for nothing, but they are the VAST minority."
Hard disagree here. The overwhelming majority of DCs I see are in the first 120 seconds of a match. The overwhelming majority of the ######### on hook I see are on one of, if not the first overall hook of the game.
People are going into matches expecting to get pissed off and looking for the first excuse to bail.
Yes, there are things wrong with the game. Lots of things. Yes, the solo queue play loop is often miserable, repetitive, and with seemingly no hope of getting substantially better. But we all know that going in to each play session. Especially the burned out vets. We know almost every possible thing that can happen, and we know it almost certainly will. We read the updates, and we know when something has changed, and more importantly when it hasn't.
Knowing full well what's gonna happen and then repeatedly quitting in a huff when it does seems absurd, no? Because it is.
But as others have said, if you go down the path of justifying going next when something (or anything, really) frustrating or unfair happens, there's no end. The most common complaints (like tunneling) can't be fixed. Not really. And much beyond that, the list of grievances people have are so numerous and subjective that saying they need to be addressed before punishing going next is just arguing in bad faith. There will be no end to it as people will quit over almost anything. That's simply a non-starter.
Not "going next" anytime you're faced with bad game design isn't accepting the bad design. It's being respectful to your teammates and opponents. What sends the message to BHVR that you're accepting the state of the game is continuing to play the game at all. Money, or rather lack of it, motivates.
If people are burned out and sick of the crap, that's totally valid. But just step away from the game altogether for a while. Watch the updates for changes what you want and come back if you see them. Or quit forever, if you can manage it. I know when I get to the point of exasperation with the BS, I don't go next just to repeat the cycle, I take a break. One day I will have had enough of the game's BS and the break will be permanent.
But people just doing the same thing over and over at the expense of their fellow players is just asinine.
Going next is out of control and we need to punish people who go next habitually. That's not the same as saying BHVR doesn't need to improve things, just that we shouldn't be having our games ruined in the interim.
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Definitely not in the small or "up and comer" category, but not listed in the OP: OhTofu is probably still my favorite after all these years. His content probably helped me the most when I was just learning the game.
I'm not a huge watcher of streams, but others I will watch (other than ones mentioned in the OP): Slate, D3ad Plays, Rayoxium, LittleSpaceRock.
There are others I like but whose energy I can only really take in small doses (Quietkills is one) and I mainly just watch their YT uploads. I can only take so much of really loud, high energy streamers. I like my streamers chill but not "put me to sleep in five minutes" chill.
Sadly I've been playing long enough that many of my favorites have either stopped streaming or stopped doing DBD content. Half of my my following list on Twitch is essentially a graveyard.
And this will get edited by a mod I'm sure, but I used to be a Tru3 watcher, but less and less as he progressively disappeared up his own arse. He has a soft spoken demeanor, but he's as arrogant (really without merit) and divisive as anyone.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
A night/day version of maps would just be amazing. Definitely something I feel could add a lot of depth to the game overall.
Yeah, and for a map like EoC it would be more than aesthetic, it would change the entire experience, functionally flipping how it plays. I know changing the lighting for a map isn't as simple as moving a slider, but it would be like a whole new map. Others, too.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
The same reason I don't want to play a match against farming killer. People do actually want to play the game. You know be chased and such. If survivors are holding the game hostage it's probably the way you are playing and you probably deserve the toxicity
No, the majority of survivors that hostage holding level hide don't do it because of the way the killer is playing. They do it because it's the last avenue they have to assert any control over a lost game, even at the cost of their own time.
I have seen it from both sides. I have seen teammates start to do it (and then spectated) against killers that were playing normally. I have had survs to it to me and I play about as fairly and "normally" as any killer you'll find. And yeah, I have seen people do it to killers who were being dbags, but I suspect they would have done it anyway. If I'm in a game with an insufferable killer, I usually just want out.
I've been tempted to do it to toxic killers who left us on the ground constantly as a " you waste my time, I'll waste yours" type thing, but I always decide that it isn't worth even more of my time to be that petty.
Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with a lot of people's "I only did X because my opponent did Y so it's not my fault" mentality. People need to take ownership of their own behavior. There's no valid reason to just hunker down just to stall a game out.
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@bazarama said:
Normally I take a,survivor to hatch if it's obvious they're new.
Same at the exit gates.
In fact one survivor was so new that as the last player alive it hit her and carried her to hatch.
Held on so she could wiggle free but instead of jumping in hatch she ran away and died to timer.
But no wouldn't take them to hatch just to kill them as that would make me as pathetic as the gate t-bags or the continously vaulting a pallet or opening a locker in a sad attempt to lure me over and then escape.
That's wasting your time.
I like to spare obviously brand new players as it's not their fault SBMM screwed them.
But like you say, the problem often is that they are so new that they don't know they're being spared even when I try to make it plainly obvious. I happens a lot and it's like herding cats. More often I'll kill them but I'll dial my gameplay way down so they might learn something and feel like they're actually competing.
Just mercilessly curbstomping sub 100 hour players in five minutes isn't fun and I don't want to be part of the reason a player gets demoralized and quits before they even learn how to play.
It sure would be nice if SBMM worked.
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I used to hate him, but now I don't see him enough to be bothered; it's like a once a month or two occurrence. I think I see more of the Twins.
Though my wife (who loves to watch me play) hates Trickster with a passion. She doesn't even play and when she sees him she's like "oh great, it's that &*^$%^%^&*" or if I use him for a daily she's like "eew, why are you playing him?" She doesn't care one way or another about any other characters in DBD, but she loathes Trickster.
Not significant, just seems like he is particularly triggering for some people.
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If anything "nerfing" flashlights made life harder for killers as other items are simply better. Flashlights are only effective against newer players who haven't learned the counterplay, or if an entire SWF is trying to bully you. Sometimes.
I used to be tortured by flashlights when I was a baby killer, but once you figure it out, they become almost a total non-issue. A flashlight obsessed surv is essentially throwing against a killer with any experience. Give me a 3-4 flashlight lobby and I'll give you a 3-4K.
As far as the changes to the clicking, I feel like it wasn't as much to protect epileptics as it was just because it was just obnoxious. The sound, really, especially the people running macros just to be insufferable.
Of course Medkits and their add-ons were also nerfed, because they were actually kinda OP (remember when you could heal yourself in chase with a souped up green medkit? Or if you broke line of sight for like 8 seconds?). But even the current basic version is still miles more useful than a flashlight.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892454#Comment_3892454
Nothing in current DBD is anywhere near as bad as flashlights used to be.
People were binding flashlight clicking to their mouse scroll wheel, and the flashing lights were so rapid that the flashlights made a non stop BBBRRRRRRRRRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRRRRRRRRBRBRBRBRRRRRRRBRRBBRRBRRRRRRRBRBRBRBRBRBRRRRRR noise.
Yeah, not much in DBD has ever really bothered me, but the sound of those flashlight macros were like a cheese grater on the brain.
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If it's before the endgame, I'll kill them like 99% of the time; don't come at me like that if the game is still up for grabs. If nothing else, it's disrespectful to your teammates.
If it's endgame, they're the last one alive, and the played well and didn't BM, I'll almost always let them go. I don't owe them anything, but I also know what it's like. At 3K I've already won and the fourth kill isn't a big deal to me.
Now if they do it because one or more of the team just went next while the game was undecided, it's a coin flip. Hell, I've let 4-5 go just tonight because of that.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891910#Comment_3891910
None of that has anything to do with what I stated or of reality. SWF's don't "go next", they play until the end or (very rarely) all DC at once, they don't give up on hook at 5 gens, 10 seconds into the match. SoloQ though is who "goes next" and I stated, because you didn't even respond to what I actually said, is that the penalty being rained down onto SoloQ is just simply going to deter people from playing altogether and Killers are going to be left with SWF matches and probably increased queues times as well.
As a killer player I would much rather wait a bit longer and face a SWF than deal with all these DOA matches where people go next right away. I'd rather take the hit to my win percentage than have half my matches be a farce, and it would waste less time than longer queues.
As a survivor player, my teammates bailing is by far my biggest issue with solo queue. Tunneling/slugging absolutely pale in comparison when it comes to ruining my fun.
@joeyspeehole said:
I feel that they should fix tunneling before going-next because one may be causing the other.
Tunneling is never getting fixed. Ever. The reason why is that it is a player problem first and foremost. And making it so tunneling is tantamount to throwing the game isn't gonna work, because it already is for most people that do it. There's no magic bullet to stop tunneling, and if that is what people are waiting for, they may as well just quit the game. It isn't coming.
And some people must not have been paying attention for the last eight years, as imbalance is the name of this game. It will never be perfectly balanced, Thanos isn't the lead dev at BHVR.
That is just to say people saying "fix your game and there won't be a reason to go next" might as well just move on if balance is what they are waiting for. It certainly isn't sufficient justification to bail on every match you don't like.
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891832#Comment_3891832
Its still a repeated and beaten topic. People get it. Its happening. BHVR has stated they are doing something. What is the point of continuing making these? Genuinely asking. Personally, I love repeat topics if it adds more to things for discussion. But I cant see what was added here that wasn't already there.
Beating dead horses is what drives traffic here on the DBD forum, lol. Like half the topics posted here are just echoes of arguments that have been going on for years.
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After three runs of it I'm not sure how anyone can question that 2v8 is survivor sided. Just anecdotally, but I've played 2v8 exclusively every time it has been active, and less than 10 of those matches as killer (I have no patience for long queues) and despite half or more of my teammates seeming to be brand new players I've escaped in at least 80% of surv games I've played. And while playing very casually, to boot.
Now when the killers win it tends to be a beating, but those have been rare in my experience. I's totally surv sided, imo.
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It's nothing new, but I am always most amazed at the killer's willingness to waste their own time. I can usually tell from how the killer played the rest of the match if they're not the merciful type, so I am not surprised when they don't let me go.
And yeah, beyond them wasting their own time it's just kind of dick move. Especially now that you can just end the game with a button press carrying them to a hatch just to kill them just demonstrates real commitment to being a douchebag.
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@Testoviron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892169#Comment_3892169
Maybe it did. I'm not sure.
In any case, I don't think 1 achievement being unobtainable is that big of a deal, compared to the alternative.They did change it (or rather retired it, hid it, and replaced it with "The Key to Escaping"), because they don't want unobtainable achievements. I'd bet from their perspective having an achievement visible but inaccessible to all future players is worse than steam players not being able to track chain attacks.
I feel for you, but I'd prepare for it to go away one way or the other. I'd think there's about zero chance they keep it active and as is just to use as a tracking tool, but maybe I'm wrong.
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You don't, really. BHVR essentially put her on mothballs (by making her useless) while they figure out what to do with her.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891823#Comment_3891823
Sadly I don’t see pinhead coming back again, only reason why stranger things returned is because players kept pestering netflix for the license again.
I think the fact that Netflix's video game plans seemingly died in utero had as much to do with DBD getting Stranger Things back as the fan outcry did, if not more. I suspect they pulled the rights because they thought they were gonna make their own game for a minute.
As far as Pinhead goes, I won't miss him much as he fades a bit. I like playing as Pinhead, but facing him in solo queue really sucks. Which has more to do with other players, but I digress, and it's not like all the current Pinheads won't still be there.
While I don't think you can ever guarantee a license won't get pulled, it might be best to stay away from licenses that have contentious or unsettled ownership. And the group that had Pinhead was pretty sketchy.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891700#Comment_3891700
They didn't get rid of it, they changed it and made it even more annoying because yes, you almost have to throw a match and sandbag your teammates for even a CHANCE.
Fortunately I did most of the key/hatch challenges out of the way back in their heyday, and the "Where Did They Go?" Trophy/Achievement.
I couldn't be bothered to even try any of them now. I think I've opened the hatch with a key one time in the years since they were changed, and that's just because I found one in a chest in the EGC.
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While I think the ability to self-unhook under normal circumstances should be removed as part of the anti-go-next initiative, you'd still have Deliverance (which should remain as is).
But when playing killer I don't really factor in 4%-ing when deciding when to hook, because it's…a 4% chance. There are many legitimate reasons to avoid hooking, but that tiny chance the surv might kobe isn't one of them, imo. When someone uses that as a primary reason to slug I find it funny. You're far more likely to lose because of a slug with UB than due to a hooked surv 4%-ing.
To be clear, I don't think slugging is a problem, and and I think if it rises to become a problem, the counter meta that rises in response will squash it. The anti-slug toolkit that is available is a lot stronger than people realize.
But sometimes a game is unwinnable, and that's okay. This game is so imbalanced that there will never be a time where unwinnable games aren't a thing. If overall improvements lead to the occasional unwinnable match, so be it.
@SoGo said:
I'd like them to revert the hook timer buff, as that seems to have been the last straw for a lot of people.
Also, the change itself shouldn't be a complete slugging shutdown, as slugging for pressure is a valid strategy, and only excessive bleedouts and 4 man slugs should be impacted.
"Also, the change itself shouldn't be a complete slugging shutdown, as slugging for pressure is a valid strategy, and only excessive bleedouts and 4 man slugs should be impacted."
Exactly. The measure as stated shouldn't affect people slugging for non-dickhead reasons, or affect them only minimally.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439618/tome-1-challenges-impossible
A lot of the early tomes were very hard, but the complete gutting of perks like Spine Chill made it so much worse. Don't get me started on those "Open the hatch with a key and escape" challenges that remain even after the changes to hatch.
Yeah, they got rid of the one key/hatch challenge that was literally impossible, but none of them should remain, really. The frequency of opportunities to unlock a hatch is nowhere near what it once was (without throwing the match, anyway). It used to be like every other match.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438974/why-grade-penalty-wont-work
They also get a DC penalty, which is basically the thing they were trying to avoid by doing this. So now if they do it, they will probably just DC instead since they will get the penalty anyway, and they can leave faster.
Yeah, the DC penalty is the main deterrent here; the docking of a grade is just a tack on.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891609#Comment_3891609
but killers consistently walk across the map to hook you without you wiggling off so OP’s point still stands.
do they, tho? By virtue of maps being filled with geometry, and killers being able to carry survivors for 58.88 meters by default at most, that's simply impossible. Haddonfield not included, but I think it's pretty unanimously agreed that Haddonfield is too small.
To be fair, a lot of the maps are too small now, which of course increases the hook density.
And yeah, even with Iron Grip and Agitation killers can't carry you all the way across the entire map if you're wiggling. That's just hyperbole.
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Having fun with 2v8, racking up BP and prestige levels. I feel good about the health update, but a little leery of the crowd that's gonna flood in with FNAF.
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For one thing he should be able to carry all of his traps at once. It's bad enough he has to take the time to set up, but having to bounce all over collecting the damned things is probably excessive. And has been said, make them harder to see (like basekit Tar Bottle).
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885277#Comment_3885277
And 1 person was able to do that, through sheer luck. Wow, that proves so much.
Yeah, I think the problem is that people who see "all" of these streaks have a hard time conceptualizing just how many people play this game. It seems like there are a lot of them, but we're talking like a fraction of a single percentage point of total killer players doing this sort of thing.
Pretty much only the most dedicated players on earth, really.
Yeah, it shouldn't even be possible in a fair game, but it's not like it's at all common. Your garden variety sweatlord isn't ripping off 200+ 4K streaks.
As you say, the exception doesn't prove the rule.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
most of my 2v8 matches have been survivor wins but I was in one where both of the killers were extremely good and they were definitely coordinating on comms. I thought maybe I would finally see an 8k with zero gens done, but due to the comeback mechanic somebody finished a gen when most survivors were already dead. I think everyone basically just gave up after the first few minutes in that one and started waiting for hatches to spawn
Yeah, I've been in a few games where the killers were really good and coordinated and I thought we might get shut out but due to the catch up at least 2-3 gens always popped at some point.
I think the only way is if the survs are basically all potatoes and just folded (stopped trying to do gens).
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@mecca said:
Killer always wins. Survivors require the killer to be very bad at the game to have a chance.
Spoken like a potato surv.
Yes, killer is generally the power role but a strong SWF is the strongest thing in the game. Without an artificial ruleset like they use in comp, a good, coordinated SWF will almost always win regardless of the killer. A comp level team in public matches is a wrecking machine.
Yes, solo queue is the weakest role in the game by far, and often miserable, but saying that a surv team's only chance is if the killer is trash is nonsense. I have a near 40% escape rate strictly in solo and I'm not even all that great. I've seen some of the stats BHVR sent people where they had a 70-80%+ escape rate (who admitted the play almost exclusively in SWF).
That's not all because of bad killers. Solo sucks, but too many survs seem to just like wallowing in their victim complex.
The fact of the matter is that this game is too messy with variables and imbalance to make blanket statements about one side versus the other, regardless of how much time people spend trying to break it down.
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@Clevarz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885254#Comment_3885254
I don't agree with this argument but YES BRING BACK DEAD HARD 🙏
Oh hell no
Of all the things BHVR has done, taking OG Dead Hard out behind the barn and putting it down may be the best
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@Thesevenspirits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891244#Comment_3891244
It's supposed to be a casual experience but you won't find it funny if you get punished for someone else's "casual" play style.
Some healing you and misses a skill check now the kill comes and tunnels you that just got off the hook… did I hear you say, you should run DS?
In 6K hours (half or more of that in solo queue) I've paid for more of other people's mistakes than I can count. I just don't care enough to dwell on it beyond that moment.
It's a sloppy, imprecise and imbalanced game. And none of us should forget others have paid for our dumb crap at some point.