TheWheelOfCheese
TheWheelOfCheese
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I've said this in other threads, but any incentive not to tunnel needs to be as effective as removing a survivor from the game or most killers who tunnel will continue doing so.
If someone is intending to steal $20 from you and you offer them $5 not to, do you think they will accept that?
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426380#Comment_3426380
Its 2023, at least there is a last minute unlike 2017.
Stuff being worse before doesn't justify it being less worse but still bad now, especially given how much time the developers have had to address problematic things in the game, opting instead to create more problems with badly-designed chapters.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426380#Comment_3426380
People are complaining about DC's and early hook suicides while also asking for a concede/surrender button, and I am really failing to see the difference.
Conceding can be made situational. E.g. the killer cannot concede until all generators are powered, survivors can vote to concede which requires unanimous consent to succeed.
It's not a hard concept.
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It's 2023 and survivors waiting until the last minute to leave still isn't reportable, nor do we have a concede button.
I lose faith in the developers more and more every day.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3422377#Comment_3422377
You mean adding penalties to lobby shopping, errr I mean dodging?
We already have something like that. With all the dodging we are ourselves willfully borking up the matchmaking, screwing others with all the backfilling and royally screwing new players too. Absolutely the best thing to do as the playerbase declines. Feels like penalties to me.
Or, BHVR could fix the broken backfill system.
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@EvilSerje said:
Ahahaha) I said it before and I say it again: many killer players won't be satisfied unless there are map with no objects and walls, but open field, survivors could only walk and 50 generators on the map which all must be completed. And even then will be camping and tunneling.
And survivors won't be happy until gen regression is nerfed into the ground and they have 5 health states.
Oh wait, half of that already happened...
See? I can make up stuff to make other players look bad, too!
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Probably best to contact support ASAP as well.
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I just checked and I still have access to all my licensed DLC.
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Honestly, after a meta shake-up patch games tend to be more fun for a few weeks. The destruction of the current meta leads to a period of experimental chaos.
Then a new meta emerges, usually more annoying than the last, and the process repeats later.
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Probably not going to happen while they're still developing content for Evil Dead: The Game.
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Getting rid of depipping makes sense, but if the DC penalty is removed then the problems you've been having will only intensify as players will be able to freely DC without consequence. Every time they turn the DC penalty off due to crashing bugs, the number of DCs flies off the charts.
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This kind of crap is why I don't believe anyone from BHVR when they talk about how matchmaking stats look good. There's really only three possible explanations at this point.
- The stats they're looking at aren't correct; perhaps whatever code they've written to collect data isn't working correctly. (I've written code to collect and analyze huge amounts of data for my company, and a single tiny error is amplified when you're looking at millions of data points that all got wrongly skewed. Think of all the bizarre bugs that we experience in the game client -- what are the odds that the stats the matchmaker is using were derived from bug-free code?)
- They don't know how to interpret the stats they're looking at.
- They're not telling the truth about the stats.
Of course, we have no way to verify anything they say about matchmaking because they don't make the raw data public (which is understandable; no other company does, either). But at this point I simply don't trust any stats we see from BHVR.
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I am absolutely shocked that after getting all of the good slowdown perks nerfed, people are back to complaining about Nurse.
Perhaps you are suddenly seeing more nurses because M1 killers can't compete against gen rushing with no viable slowdown anymore?
Another "be careful what you ask for" moment.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403262#Comment_3403262
It would be really neat if some of those config settings were in the actual in game settings menu, so people don't risk getting banned for changing settings that any other game has.
Excuse me, sir, this is the DBD forums. You might have confused this with a place to have rational thoughts and good ideas.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402412#Comment_3402412
no way out still exists ^_^
I don't think most people classify NWO as a slowdown perk, rather as an endgame perk.
Regardless, it's clear from context I'm talking about gen slowdown/defense.
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Deadlock is going to be the next slowdown perk brigaded against as it's about the only one left worth running.
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@HugTheHag said:
They didn't killswitch Oni when he was glitched with double blood orbs (cough cough AOT cosmetics cough), so their definition of gamebreaking is pretty flexible.
They didn't kilswitch Twins either throughout their "frozen in place all match" glitch if I remember correctly, so maybe it's only game breaking if a certain % of players are affected ? Merciless Storm is not exactly a popular perk.
The Twins thing really doesn't make sense to me, since they killswitched Nurse for exactly the same problem (her being unable to move after a validated gen grab -- different cause, but same outcome).
I really don't understand why MS isn't killswitched either. I can't see a single compelling argument against turning it off until fixed.
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That's what happens when there's a higher than 4:1 survivor:killer ratio queuing for a game. Lots of killers are going to get thrown into the group that's been waiting the longest, not the one that's the best match for them. The groups waiting the longest are going to be those at the extreme ends of the MMR pseudo-bell curve (as modified by the soft cap).
One way you could solve that is to incentivize some people to play the other role, which is exactly what the PTB build would have done if it reached live.
Of course, enough people complained about that to cause BHVR to cave, as expected, so you will continue seeing the same poor matchmaking for the foreseeable future.
(You could also solve it by dispensing with the absurd soft cap, but I doubt that's happening soon.)
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@Frys_Dog said:
"The game is so unbalanced now,I really don't think anyone would enjoy playing killer in high level right now."
I enjoy playing killer right now, i have a frustrating match every once in a while but i have a lot of fun playing killer, right now i'm trying to become a better Blight so i play it without addons or perks (just shadowborn because of pov), no kicking gens, no camping, no tunneling, and i really enjoy the challenge
"And this game would be so unbalanced is not only the DEVS fault but also your fault."
Is a 4v1, it's meant to be unblanaced
"don't you wondering about why killer don't do hit and run anymore?"
People love the "hit and run" strat, that's why everybody loves playing against Legion
"And with the new HUD for survivor,the time being wasted by survivor themself become even shorter."
Yeah, i love when the random Nancy is searching a chest while there are 2 people on hook and i'm injured going for the save, to op
"killer is really unplayable right now"
No it isnt, there is a tab just above the "play as survivor" one that, when clicked, allows you to play as killer, is called "play as killer"
"The gaming is dieing, and all of us are the one pushing it."
This game has died so many times since 2016 that should be renamed to "Undead by daylight"
To be fair, I don't think it's the hit-and-run style that people mind about Legion, it's the constant mending.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
Pinhead is weak?!
If the survivors aren't potatoes, yes. Low-mid MMR survivors really seem to struggle with handling the box. At high MMR, everyone knows exactly when to pick it up and when to use it so as to almost completely deny the killer value from it. The HUD update -- which was fine, I'm not complaining about it -- also helped a ton to coordinate who goes for the box.
He's annoying to face, but he's not difficult to beat.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
I mean it seemed like killers cared more about the Billy add-on nerfs than anything else. It's all I saw discussed in killer streams.
That's just because it was the most egregiously out of touch change that was made in the PTB.
After the dev update today, the rest of the patch is still egregiously out of touch, but for different reasons.
(Except the bloodweb update, that's about the only good thing in this patch now.)
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@[Deleted User] said:
I leave them and go for the next person. If they're still AFK after that, they go on the hook. If a killer immediately downs and hooks an AFK player at the start, I assume that killer has no kids, pets, or general life responsibilities at home.
You are playing survivor and when you load in the killer is AFK. What do you do? Wait for them to move before doing any gens?
LMAO. No way. Survivors aren't expected not to do their objective if the killer is AFK.
You can certainly choose to be extra nice to AFK survivors and I take no issue with that whatsoever, but do not frame it as some kind of moral deficiency or lack of understanding/empathy for those who don't. It's a video game, and the expectation is that you queue for a game when you are free to play games. If you aren't, that's not the fault of your opponent(s).
I have 3 kids at home and I've had times when I'm playing killer that something unexpected happens requiring my immediate attention so I will either DC and drop a message in chat or will go AFK to take care of it. When I go AFK, I do not expect to come back to the same number of gens completed with survivors patiently awaiting my return.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384245#Comment_3384245
Agree with every point you make.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384291#Comment_3384291
Why did we not have toolbox reform at the same time as medkit reform?
Why did the gen rush perks not get 70-75% nerfs?
Why are we allowing Hyperfocus to potentially finish a generator in 35-40 seconds? Should we add a killer perk that lets the killer remove two of your hook states in 30 seconds? Obviously neither of those things should be part of the game.
Why did we not have toolbox reform at the same time as medkit reform?
Why did the gen rush perks not get 70-75% nerfs?
Why are we allowing Hyperfocus to potentially finish a generator in 35-40 seconds? Should we add a killer perk that lets the killer remove two of your hook states in 30 seconds? Obviously neither of those things should be part of the game.
I think the thought process is that if survivors are kept busy healing for longer, the gens won't go as fast. This is true if the survivors actually heal. If they stack resilience, PT, hyperfocus, and toolboxes then the healing nerf doesn't really matter in terms of gen speed, though chases would be shorter as survivors spend more time injured.
We'll have to see how it all pans out on the PTB. Nerfing toolboxes / gen repair perks in addition might be a bit too much all at once.
Ideally I would have liked to see a slightly less severe healing nerf combined with a nerf to gen repair speed tools and perks.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381996#Comment_3381996
There are plenty of abled listeners who will benefit from this feature.
I've a friend who jams out to drum and bass music while we play DBD. Half the reason they get caught out is because they can't hear the killer's terror radius. This update will allow him, and people like him, to continue jamming to music while playing DBD.
Additionally, I would prefer to play the game at a lower volume. The menu sounds (specifically the bloodweb) are agonizingly loud, with no option to lower it. Now I can lower the volume without the inconvenience of needing to remember to raise it once I'm in-game.
Generally, the sounds in DBD are of poor quality, and I rather be listening to anything but the game if I can do so without detriment to myself or my teammates
The point is that this addition doesn't give survivors any advantage that they don't already have.
CHOOSING to listen to music instead of game audio is handicapping yourself, and this change allows you to do that but STILL doesn't give you an advantage over people who just use the game audio.
So I don't see your point.
An unfair buff would be seeing the killer through walls, not giving players information they already have access to just in a different form.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384991#Comment_3384991
Oh so you are the supreme decision maker on word definitions? Glad to finally meet you. That's not how it works friend. It doesn't actually even matter how a word originates. Words are actually defined from their usage. Whatever the commonly agreed upon usage is what the word means. Let's take the word "literally" as an example. Literally comes from the Latin word "littera" which means "letter" so "by the letter". So literally meant by the letter or the exact meaning of the word. But it was misused so frequently that the definition of the word itself changed.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
Notice definition 2. So even going by your definition of "tunnel vision", that doesn't make anything I said untrue. If the killer has "tunnel vision" for you that means they aren't giving you a chance to recover.
I've been around long enough to know the history of the term, yes.
"Tunneling" is kind of in the same category as "racist" in US politics. It has a definition, and lots of people abuse the word to attempt to conflate behavior that isn't problematic with an egregious offense in an attempt to shame the other party into submitting to their whims.
Of course, this is entirely transparent when it is attempted.
If we are arguing that the definition has changed then we also need to admit that the behavior described by the word is not problematic at all.
But one side seems to want the described behavior to be problematic even as they warp the definition to suit their desires.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tunnel
Tunneling as it is referred to amongst the DBD community doesn't have an actual definition. It is a term used without a commonly agreed upon definition. Therefore it means different things to different people. From a survivors perspective, tunneling happens when they are hooked and after being unhooked they don't have a reasonable opportunity to recover. From a killers perspective, tunneling is only when you down and hook a survivor who was just unhooked. From the narrative you just told then from your perspective as killer it wasn't tunneling because you didn't hook the survivor and gave her a chance to recover, from the survivors perspective they were tunneled because they didn't have a reasonable chance to recover. Both perspectives are valid.
It has a widely-accepted definition, survivors just frequently misuse it to make the other player feel bad about winning.
Tunneling originated as a shortened version of "having tunnel vision" which means to focus one survivor exclusively and ignore everyone else.
That's it. It's that simple.
It has never meant "not giving someone a reasonable chance to recover." Ever.
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Just bait it out.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Everything about the upcoming patch is fine except for the nerf to base healing. I hope they come to their senses and leave base healing alone.
If they revert all of the gen regression perk nerfs, I would be fine with this.
You can't give survivors faster gens without making them slower at something else, unless you just want to be able to gen rush and 4-out every match.
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@raw said:
If they nerf dead hard again my team and I are through with dead by daylight for good these developers have lost their minds the tunneling problem is just going to get worse and the game will die out from lack of fun it’s already nearly impossible to pull off the perk half the time why would they do this without first listening to its community killer mains and survivor mains don’t want this it will ruin everyone’s strategies on both sides of the spectrum and on top of that survivors won’t be able to counter a killers tunnel immediately unless they have saved someone if this because reality count me and my team and clan out of playing dead by daylight ever again that’s a promise
Oh no!
Anyway...
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@Pennywise said:
There isn't much substance in that video. He is saying the medpack changes are terrifying (his words) and he is worried about his DBD streaming career because of these changes. Does that not seem like an overreaction at this stage, when it hasn't even been in PTB?
It's almost like he knows that level-headed reactions don't get as many views. 🤔
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@GensByDaylight said:
He said to change shadow step, I don't know how it would work then. Thats what I was saying.
Still busted.
Hiding all scratch marks for everyone healthy would be insanely strong.
The only reason current boons aren't completely broken in terms of balance is because if the killer is close enough to be in the area of effect, they can also hear where it is so they can go snuff it.
The only way this might even come remotely close to balanced is if the killer saw the aura of the boon perk like the survivors do. And even then, it's still too strong.
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Not only no, but hell no.
Map-wide exponential would be busted AF. Do we not remember the basekit UB PTB and what a mess that was? All you need are two booners with that perk booning on opposite ends of the map.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380197#Comment_3380197
I'm with you, and it's kind of hilarious watching all the tantrums fly right now.
I think these changes are largely good. The right targets are there, but maybe some issues in execution.
I'm a little concerned that the nerfs to healing all round might be a bit too stacked, with base healing speeds, Medkits and CoH all at once, it might prove to be a little too big of a change, as these will have compound effects. Particularly as an increase to healing speeds is an indirect buff to the likes of Sloppy Butcher and Coulrophobia, which could already be used for heal-denial builds on the right killers. Not to mention this is also a huge nerf to Self Care as well, which didn't deserve the nerf it got in 6.1 as it is.
I'd say reduce the heal time from 24s to 20s, and it might be ok.
Dead Hard, is the right sort of nerf, reducing the incidence rate of it, how many times a killer sees it in one game, is what was needed. But is it too much? I run unhook builds all the time, for Renewal and We'll Make It (gonna be great now btw), and I can tell you that scoring the unhook can be really tricky when you need it, there's always another survivor closer.
Pain Res is also getting a fairly substantial nerf, but, it's just the sort of nerf that's needed, just like Dead Hard. It encourages spreading hooks. But now you need to make sure that the first time you hook any given survivor is on a Scourge, if that one single hook can't be made on a Scourge, you've lost 1/4th of your perk. It probably shouldn't be a Scourge perk anymore with these changes.
But now you need to make sure that the first time you hook any given survivor is on a Scourge, if that one single hook can't be made on a Scourge, you've lost 1/4th of your perk.
The dev notes are pretty clear that you only lose a token the first time a specific survivor is hooked on a scourge hook.
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@RichardCarter said:
I feel like this might be the most neutral opinion about this developer update in this forum rn lol
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Hell, games like Fortnite even have a vault system where some weapons come out on a rotation so that you get a limited amount of time with each one before they go away for awhile. This is done purposely to keep the game changing so that it's not stale.
Imagine if BHVR did that with perks. "You can run DH for the next two weeks, then it's going in the vault for 3 months."
The outcry that would result. Lord, have mercy.
I don't think DBD players actually want the game not to be stale.
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Players: The game is getting stale and boring.
BHVR: Changes stuff.
Players: No, not like that!
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Remember when all the survivor mains were going to quit when 6.1.0 dropped?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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@ARTRA said:
Didnt really expected PR to be this obliterated, could see CoB and Over, but not this one.
Gen defense is mostly jolt at this point i guess.
Ruin, pop, CoB, Over, Eruption and PR are mostly out.
Guess next killer its going to bring a cool gen defense perk.
The PR nerf would be fine if they reverted Pop, TBH.
Pop was a super healthy perk. You had to hook and then leave the hook to use it (obviously unless you hooked right next to a gen).
I'm hopeful that with most of the regression perks dead, they will start looking at gen speed perks and give those similar treatment.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378179#Comment_3378179
Treating other decently in a video game is not the same as giving them candy either.
Im sure you understand what I mean behind my metaphor.
It was a bad punch, try a candy?
I understand the metaphor, but it doesn't work.
Punching someone unnecessarily is a bad thing to do. Trying to win a video game isn't.
The problem with the metaphor is that it conflates trying to win at a video game with something wrong (or, at the very least, anti-social). I disagree with the entire premise of the metaphor.
If you reframe the metaphor any way you choose such that the "bad thing" is approximately on the same moral level as "making someone feel bad by besting them in a game" then the attempt of the metaphor to make the person who is trying to win feel bad about trying to win falls flat. As it should.
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@Beatricks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377974#Comment_3377974
I think legally speaking they can claim you are using a third party software if they want to ban you for something, but considering the fact that streamers openly use and advocate for VPN, I highly doubt anyone actually would get banned for it. I don't use custom perk icons because that's technically modifying the game files, but even that hasn't resulted in a single confirmed ban.
I've personally been playing with a VPN exclusively since the Artist PTB, admitted it on the forums multiple times and haven't even received a warning.
I think legally speaking they can claim you are using a third party software if they want to ban you for something
I don't think they would even need to do that. Generally speaking, companies can terminate service to you for no reason at all. (Though doing so haphazardly would probably eventually result in a class action lawsuit about the purchase price of the game.)
The EULA says:
Both you and BHVR (or its licensors) may terminate this EULA at any time for any reason or for no reason.
It's also very unlikely that they would ban you for using a VPN. VPNs just reroute your Internet traffic to another network. Any time a network packet would leave your network, it is encrypted and sent to the VPN's endpoint instead, where it's decrypted and then processed, usually by performing SNAT and routing it to the original destination.
VPNs are used all the time by businesses for private access to company-internal networks, so just having a VPN turned on isn't evidence of anything even related to playing DBD.
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This is one of the more baffling decisions BHVR has made.
If backfill by bot isn't possible, why can't the DC'd survivor be sacrificed immediately, EGC style?
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I don't dodge much and really don't mind playing against P100's. So many people are bad at playing against Nurse that a challenge is honestly welcome.
But it's the darndest thing, if someone ninja switches to a P100 character right at the 6 second mark, my game crashes. 😮
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@C3Tooth said:
Imaging this, there are 2 people, a good person and a bad person. You have 2 choice:
- Give a candy to each of them.
- Or punch to the face to each of them.
A candy will not make the bad person happy. But a punch would hurt the good one.
It sure is a good thing that this is a video game and winning a match isn't the same thing as assault!
/s
Bad analogy, try another.
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Playing nice and playing fair are, by and large, one-way streets in DBD.
You are expected to as a killer, but there is no such expectation put on survivors. Using 4 stacked medkits, gen speed perks, 4 DHs, etc. are all "using the tools provided" but tunneling, camping, gen slowdown perks, etc. are all signs of "unskilled play."
Killers are told to "get over" survivor BM but when a killer BMs it's apparently catastrophically problematic.
This community is so weird.
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@Steakdabait said:
yea there's been a huge uptick in players who play like this for me too. It's gotten to the point where i just play killer now since at least then i much more control over the experience of the match
I'd expect the uptick trend to continue as killers who want to play fun, balanced matches leave because that's not possible by and large in the current meta. All DBD will be left with are the killers who tunnel at 5 gens and bleed people out for "fun."
The uptick in encountering these kinds of killers is just a symptom of how badly the game has been mismanaged.
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It doesn't bother me that much, considering that there is practically no delay between releasing M2 (without lunging) and being able to attack. He has basically free zoning with no downsides whatsoever, I'm okay if I have to trade an effective increase of less than half a second to break pallets with his power.
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DH is problematic because of the way it infects the game, not because of its power level. (Though one has to wonder what the power level of a perk that you see on 3-4 survivors every other match could be... is the perk good, or are survivors stupid to bring it? You have to pick one or the other...)
It's so prevalent that you have to assume that everybody has it until you know otherwise. Just by existing, you have to play around it, even if it's not in the match at all.
I don't have any problems countering it the vast majority of the time (usage tends to be pretty telegraphed), it's just tiring dealing with it constantly.
Then there are the cases where it's a lose/lose and the survivor gets their guaranteed free health state.
The sole thing that makes me okay with the perk existing some of the time is that the devs never went back and changed the animation like they said they were going to. It's goofy as hell to see a survivor dab before going down.
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@Flawless_ said:
Sooo I just took the time to read your entire post and…I’m sorry to break it to you pal but I’m pretty sure your mmr isn’t as high as you think it is.
All the issues you mention are things truly experienced killers learn to deal with and play around eventually. Just the fact that you’re committing to a 2+ minute chase tells me everything I need to know. This sounds like a textbook case of git gud.
Not saying your frustrations aren’t valid, but to be fair you are kind of blaming everything but yourself for your shortcomings. You can absolutely win as killer without tunneling right off the bat, and comfortably so.
Taking a break from the game does help though. See you in 6 months.
@Marik1987 said:
Everybody plays at high MMR it seems 😅
It doesn't take that much to hit the soft cap. "High MMR" is just "everything above the soft cap" which is both ridiculously easy to get to and filled with a very wide range of skill levels.
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@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375951#Comment_3375951
I didnt put words in your mouth buddy. Your the one that mention about dh and so I replied to lol.
Because that was the motivation for the rash of survivor DCs after the patch. Which is what this post is about.
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@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374715#Comment_3374715
Do yall ever not get tired of complaining of a easy to bait perk call dh? Lithe is much more deadly and i will waste so much killers time with it specially when they are lazy to break good pallets. zoom I go with quick and quiet and go to another op loop. Also ofc we knew 6.1 will caused mass people to rage quit or dc.
This why I wish people understand why people rather swf. Game only is fun and maybe a chance to win as survivor with a coordinated group. A certain entitled popular killer main who I wont call their name who qqs so hard about swfs yet they always tunnel or camp or bms solos. Their hypocrisy is hilarious first game I see people complain about people rather gaming with family or friends.
You sure like putting words in people's mouths, don't you?