SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174853#Comment_3174853
You can use Doctor plus calm add-ons for the same effect. If they wish to release more killers that have big TR's then this should be addressed.
Bite the Bullet essentially nullifies the skillcheck issue entirely.
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If you got hit in the first 10s, you misplayed.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174809#Comment_3174809
I've already told you that its not the SPEED of the HEALS. If you want to ignore what I've said already in a previous post that was directed at you then don't comment on mine.
If you don’t want people to respond, don’t post on a public forum?
If you’re worried about failing the check, run Bite the Bullet and it instantly solves the issue.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174791#Comment_3174791
No one cares about the healing SPEED. Its the SKILL CHECK speed on top of the tiny skill check with 1 second to react. You miss that skill check and now the killer gets a free tracking perk that leads them to a 1-shot survivor. That's why its obnoxious.
Bite the Bullet completely nullifies this issue.
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Meh. Not like there’s anything wrong with tunneling in the first place.
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Yeah, but healing slowdown can realistically be countered by a single perk - Autodidact. Gives absolute percent progress increase, which cannot be reduced.
There is no singular equivalent that more or less nullifies Hyperfocus being paired with a toolbox and either good reaction times or Stake Out to drop a 90 second generator to ~40s.
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Fun fact, you can more or less counter the entire build with a single perk: Autodidact. The slowdown means you’ll get 5 stacks fairly easily, and since Autodidact gives percent total progress, slowdown cannot reduce the burst healing Autodidact gives on every skillcheck.
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@OjomoTheWraith said:
I rather have fun than balanced games. The game is becoming more and more boring. All the fun stuff is getting removed... for what? so we all get a feeling of the game becoming slightly more balanced? Of a game which is basically impossible to balance perfectly?
BHVR did a massive mistake by keeping the gab between Solo Q and SWF without reducing it as much as possible. It would have made balancing easier aswell as preserved many fun aspects of the game without just gutting anything we can enjoy (looking at you blast mind, DS + Head on double tap etc etc)
That’s kind of my point. Just cause you find it unfun doesn’t mean others do too.
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Anything that makes any survivor meta or less meta is a terrible idea because it’s a nightmare to balance and punishes people for liking a weak character.
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30 is a good sweet spot. 25 would be laughably small.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174546#Comment_3174546
Not only, there are cases where one side finds something a little fun and the other side finds it very unfun. These should be addressed too.
The goal is that every player has fun within a reasonable compromise. Not that the player who has found how to exploit the game better has all the fun and the others are doomed.
Fair point, but what’s an example of that? Most of the cases I can think of are pretty polarized in being very fun or unfun, depending on who you ask.
@Satelit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174508#Comment_3174508
As far as I'm aware trapping someone in the corner all game is not bannable unless no one can do generators anymore and activate the endgame.Idk maybe I'm wrong.
It’s bannable even if others can do generators, since the trapped person can’t do anything. Trapping someone AFTER EGC starts is fine, not before.
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@ImNotBobDylan said:
You are very wrong, for 99% players what matters is whether the game is fun, not whether it is balanced.
A game can be balanced but unfun for BOTH payers at the same time.
A good example in DBD is slugging, the killer has managed to down the last survivor as killer, and all his teammates are dead, but the survivor is too far away from any hook. Then the optimal decision is for both players to LITERALLY STOP PLAYING.
In this situation, none of the 2 players are having fun for 4 minutes. Whether slugging is balanced is irrelevant, both players are wasting their time, so this is something that SHOULD be addressed, regardless of whether this is balanced or not.
This would be fixed by eg. allowing a downed survivor to give up after 1 minute of slugging.
I take slugging because it's the most obvious example but there are MANY things in this game that are balanced and yet VERY unfun.
Which is why I’ve literally said if the majority of both sides finds it unfun, or what the majority of one side finds fun and the majority of the other finds unfun doesn’t line up, changing it makes sense.
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"Breaking game rules is comparable to unfun playstyle/character/perks/etc."
Yeah, no.
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Is there something wrong with people playing more seriously?
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Lightborn is detrimental for killers already.
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Who? All killers except for Myers have the same attack range.
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Or… it could be Wesker’s bug was easier to fix than ideas for what they want to do for survivor.
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Kinship buff is unacceptably disgustingly gamebreakingly overpowered.
Iron Will change is overpowered
Saboteur change is unhealthy design that removes all risks
Sole Survivor countering Killer Instinct is awful design because Killer Instinct is only used on powers and you are not meant to have a counter to that
Stake Out/Distortion change is horrible design that instantly alerts Killer is in that range
Breakdown buff is unhealthy design, you can literally remove hooks for near half an entire game
Solidarity/Flip Flop being 100% is insanely gamebreaking overpowered
Mettle of Man/For the People change is disgustingly overpowered
Resurgence is already good, it does not need a buff.
Dark Theory 4% is completely busted.
Wiretap working with OH is completely busted.
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Even if the killer is protecting it from the start, it’s a game of attrition. They can only chase one person off at a time. If someone is on another gen, that can’t be stopped. So survivors will win by chipping away regardless.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3173992#Comment_3173992
Youre really such a salty killer, aren't you?
To insist THIS MUCH into not fixing an issue that is survivor sided. Let's deconstruct your while argument piece by piece.
- This is 100% guaranteed with deliverance.
- Yeah that's the whole point being brought up.
- You don't know what's coming in the mori update. They did announce something but it's been 6 months, it mightve been changed. It might even be delayed, who knows. It's still an issue right now. Arguing that "in a few months it won't be a problem" isn't a viable argument.
- You just described what I said? Yes ok?
- Keys open hatch. Also if the killer leaves you to search for the hatch, it might give you time to find it. If he facecamps you, and already closes the hatch, your chances are very slim, but you do deserve the option to still unhook and loop the killer a little more. It's also not impossible to entirely lose the killer, especially if you have perks such as lucky break or off the record. (you need OTR anyway for this to work. Your argument about "it needs to be a slow killer" is irrelevant.
- Yes that's the hatch mechanics. Reqsuires to be found. So?
- Lol. You jjust proceeded to point out how situational it would be to find yourself in that situation and your only argument is that if the killer plays a non meta perk (No Way out is absolutely not a meta perk... it's not terrible, it's okay maybe it's even good. But it's not meta.)
- You litterally just said "your plan fails if the killer has no way out" and then proceed to say "well it might work if you have the most played perk in the entire game".
TL;DR: Your sole and only argument is that "this is an issue that doesn't happen all that often and therefore doesn't need to be fixed".
Glad behavior didn't think this way about the invincible totems.
How do you expect to achieve anything when you will go down in 10s and then die anyways?
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Identifying and breaking a 3-gen early is part of skill. If survivors get 3-genned, it is always their fault.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3173977#Comment_3173977
Off the record works with self unhooks. it's still an additional chance to use your perk. Just because it's a small chance doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have it...
- Requires getting an unhook
- Requires never being hooked till the end
- (Post-Mori update) Requires being downed while others are still in the trial, or you would auto-die
- (Game) Requires being hooked while others are still in the trial, or you would auto-die → (Your idea) Allows self-unhook attempt regardless
- Requires hatch to be open or a gate to be open. If the hatch is closed and gates aren't actually open, the killer will get there before you do to bodyblock the switch, since they’re faster than you are.
- Even with Haste from default/Hope/Sprint Burst/etc, almost any mobility ability will outrace you regardless. Thus, also reliant on the killer not being someone with mobility and also having extra Haste perks, because you’re slower by default unless they're 4.4m/s.
- If hatch is open, requires finding it before the killer does.
- Plan auto-fails if killer finds hatch first and killer has NWO (a meta perk) and shut hatch before all gens were done naturally.
- Plan also auto-fails if the killer can bodyblock or wait out the 10s. In the case of Off the Record, requires having that perk, which still won’t help you if they down you before you reach an open hatch or gate.
- And even if you have it, multiple killers have a way to play around or bypass Endurance.
- Also you seem to have forgotten OtR deactivates once gates are powered.
TL;DR - Too situational. In the absolute majority of cases where this does not play out perfectly, it's just a waste of time that doesn't change the result at all.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3173971#Comment_3173971
Wouldn't be that hard to give no more than 5 seconds for a survivor to attempt unhooks.
And then you go down and nothing changes except the killer just waits out a potential 60s for DS or something, or they go and shut hatch if they haven’t done so already or whatever.
Also if you weren’t aware, in a future update, last survivor being downed will automatically Mori them anyways.
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Because it’s a complete waste of time in 99.99% of situations.
You get off the hook and then get downed. Nothing changes.
Or a person just doesn’t bother self-unhooking at all out of spite to waste the killer’s time.
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DBD players when people play new content:
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
Imagine if Alchemist Ring Blight was able to use Surge, I don't even want to think about it, how about we just make Nurses blinks special attacks and call it a day.
Or... nerf Alchemist Ring and the issue's gone.
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This would be a bandaid but the better way to do it would be to buff the weaker killers.
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Medkit is too overpowered. The others are kind of underwhelming.
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@BradQuackson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172538#Comment_3172538
I'm all for nerfing range, but whats the opinion on recharge? Its the only thing that makes maps playable indoors (Lerys atleast)
Recharge is strong but balanced. It doesn't alter what Nurse can do with her blinks in an actual attempt to land a hit the way range or three blinks do. It just means more frequent uptime, which becomes pretty much necessary at ultra-high levels of play. (Not that most survivors will ever get there, but neither will most Nurses). Some maps need reworks and changes.
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@neb said:
I think the problem is that even if you mindgame a nurse and win the "rock paper scissors shoes", they can just run range addons and make back the distance they just lost.
Which is why range add-ons are terribly designed and should be completely reworked into a different effect, but also why the basekit is fine.
Same with 3 blinks, which is the equivalent of Nurse getting to change what she threw after you threw.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
Holding the game hostage means the other side can't do anything BUT dc ,,at your case they were being immersed and hiding very well but you as killer weren't unable to do anything about it,,you just took ages to find them ,boring as it is it's not holding anyone hostage
You are wrong.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3172061#Comment_3172061
Killers will think twice about eating a 3 sec stun every time they tunnel a survivor.
Why is it the survivor's failure when the killer has to slug for his sweaty 4K? It's just boring to bleed out for 4 minutes and wasting your time.
Logically, the respawns of the hooks should also be as far away from the killer as possible.
A 3s stun is a joke.
Because to get in that situation, it means the killer already realistically beat the survivors? 2 are dead, third is downed, fourth is on the run or hiding. Why should the survivors be rewarded for losing?
And then that ends up with survivors forcing killer into a lose-lose, much like every other considered-and-scrapped idea BHVR has gone through.
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I don't think DS basekit is the way to go about tunneling.
Your endgame slug idea rewards failure on the part of the survivors.
Hook relocation is extremely abusable and is not comparable to cages which spawn as far as possible away.
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No. Is a nightmare to balance and creates meta where people will feel SOL for not liking a meta character.
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Even if they do somehow remove it, I'm expecting basically every single collision interaction under the sun to become bugged as a result.
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Because that means survivors have to learn every single differing perk and gen interaction for every killer. As it stands now, really the only thing a survivor has to know is 4.4 vs 4.6, and 24 vs 32m TR for the most part, which don't play a role in many perks available to survivors regardless that are actually commonly used. Eg, Distortion is dependent on killer TR to an extent, but it's also a niche pick.
If multiple killers have multiple different gen times, this means slowdown perks affect different amounts depending on the killer, and that speedup perks also affect different amounts depending on the killer. It makes it a clutter and a design nightmare.
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170587#Comment_3170587
How is the killer being punished if I ban Nurse from my matches? That Nurse would simply be put in a lobby that doesn't have Nurse banned. And if Nurse is being banned so often that the player can't find a match (which would probably be unlikely), that speaks to poor game design, no? It means no one wants to play against Nurse because they find her unbalanced, unfun, boring, etc. and the devs would be able to look at that information and make changes based on that.
On another note: killers have and will complain about SWF's in their matches, the devs have seen it, and according to them, it's on their list of priorities.
Avoiding SWF and avoiding a specific killer is not the same. Killers dislike SWF's because they're too strong and break the balance of the game, not because of their playstyles, perks, or items, because survivors are skins of each other, nothing makes them wholly unique. They have no special abilities or qualities that make them tangibly different from solo survivors. Beyond more information, which both the community and BHVR have said need to be leveled between SWF and solo queue, survivors are all the same.
Killers have their own unique attributes and playstyles, add-ons and powers, many of which certain people don't find engaging or fun to play against. Killers like Trapper and Hag whose powers facilitate camping for example, may be boring to survivors. Maybe Nurse is unpopular among survivors because she breaks the rules of the game. At the end of the day, survivors collectively get to ban 4 out of the 29 existing killers. Not even 15% of all killers.
Banning certain characters isn't new to video games. Games like League of Legends lets you ban characters in ranked. In League, it's definitely a strategic choice, but strategic banning doesn't work in DBD. If for example, you're playing in a SWF at high MMR, most of your matches will be against the "top tier" killers of the game, Nurse, Blight, ect. If the SWF bans their top 4 killers, they end up with such long queue times, they may be unable to find matches at all. The strategy completely backfires. There is no real downside to allowing survivors to choose to avoid a certain killer when there is so much variety in killer options, beyond making your own queue times slightly longer.
Friendly reminder that League has 161 characters to play and is balanced around competitive where draft 10-bans are a thing.
If people don't want to face a part of the game, they should not queue up in the first place. Subjective opinions do not determine balance. What some find fun, others will find unfun, and vice-versa. Furthermore, there is no objective way to make something "more fun" because the standard itself is inherently subjective and differs from person to person. Changing something purely off certain portions of the playerbase finding something unfun is a middle finger to the other portion that finds it fun. Which is why it is not good game design to do so.
Is it fun for supports in Overwatch who are at risk of Tracer killing them in a single clip in around a second before zooming out? Probably not. But counterpicks and counterstrategies both exist. For instance, anti-flank picks, or having tanks cover for the supports. So should it be changed just because of the people that find it unfun? No, and similarly, if Tracer was overpowered, it should not be immune to changes just because it is fun for a group.
SWF does not mean good. SWF means they can communicate information to each other. Whether they can play well enough in the first place is not dependent on SWF. 4 good solo players will outdo a 4-man mediocre SWF on voice comms.
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@Gandor said:
You want to force people to play. That will not work. People will find creative ways how to not play. Or sandbag other people in match they don't like.
Obviously, there will be people who don’t care who are the minority. The above changes help with the pain of being screwed out of BP, pips, and teammates just doing nothing instead of gens.
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The solution to one problem isn’t to bring back another.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170587#Comment_3170587
Or some people will solve it by DC/suicide. You can't force people to play.
But if you don't want to liten to it, so be it. Devs will work it out if/when people stop playing the game (or don't if I am wrong).
Then those people can waste their own time. The rest of the community will just play even if they aren’t thrilled about it. The amount of people that quit/suicide aren’t going to kill the game. Besides, any online versus game has stuff of the sort.
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Punishing people for playing a specific killer makes zero sense. There’s a variety of reasons they might be playing that killer. Maybe it’s for a Daily. Maybe it’s for a Tome challenge. Maybe it’s for Adept/killer-specific challenge. Maybe it’s cause they want to play that specific character in general. So on and so forth.
This is like advocating for letting killers opt to avoid SWF, which itself also boils down to just people playing with friends. Neither makes sense. If you don’t like facing a part of the game, that’s fine, but you need to either get over it or not queue up.
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Dead Hard is on-demand Endurance. You should not be able to use it reactively unless it’s against something with a big windup. Use it predictively.
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Prestige doesn't have anything to do with skill. It doesn't even have anything to do with playtime on that character. You can get Bloodpoints from a different character or even the other side and then spend them on someone else.
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If you just take the perks, you'll never have to deal with them again anyways. It's a one-time investment. I don't think that's too shabby. And those perks could always receive changes or buffs in the future. It also means another slot for something else that could be better, like a wanted add-on.
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Flashlights can be countered by looking at a wall. Alternatively, if you're in an open area or you know they have flashbangs/firecrackers which can counter the aforementioned strategy, another option is to go after those other survivors and either chase them off or down them too. Therefore, perks such as Infectious Fright are very good for that.
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I've gone kind of overboard with my responses in this thread, and I'll work on toning it down here and from here on out as well. I'd like to apologize to those here and any in previous threads that might come by this one (since it is another Nurse-related thread) for my attitude up till now. I'll be more to the point about points from now on.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169579#Comment_3169579
Yeah I agree I saw a big moment today that demonstrates why
Otz was playing Bubba with Lethal and he spawned on a Macmillan map, very close to a survivor. The survivor spawned in a deadzone with a hill and nothing around it. By the time the survivor realised it was a bubba and that he was coming, he was screwed.
All because he spawned close to the Killer and they happened to have Lethal
Yep. Things like jungle gym into jungle gym into shack. Or just a giant patch of nothing. Or spawning absurdly close to the killer. Or spawning all together. Or spawning completely separated across the entire map. Etc. I think limiting the extent to which RNG can push either extreme would go a long way with game issues.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169569#Comment_3169569
Comparing Chess to DBD is very bad because Chess has no RNG.
DBD has immense levels of RNG, spawns themselves are RNG.
Also it was a joke
That does remind me actually. DBD does need some adjustments to said RNG in my opinion. Eg, tile spawn logic. The amount of possible variance gets a bit too insane IMO.
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Another variant of this idea could be eg, a slider/a few options for prioritization between queue time and skill matchup.
Eg, Option 1 is how it works on live (mostly focus queue time). Option 2 is prioritize skill matchup but not past IDK, 10m or something. Option 3 is waiting however long it would take for an even matchup.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169544#Comment_3169544
I don't think SupaAlf has spent all of his life playing Nurse 🤔
Just a good few years.
Okay, if we're going to split hairs over this, then a state champion or something. Against your random average person who knows how to play chess, that is still a completely one-sided game regardless.
@threeQuinn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169515#Comment_3169515
Just to reiterate a bit and add something. You say "pub players". Meaning public or random groups, as in a matchmade team, as opposed to premade squads of 4 people and like tournament, pro scene players. How many matches are composed of a 4 man survivor premade, and then how many of those matches are an actual "pro squad" (let's say) that can deal with stuff like that and not a group of friends of various skill. I would say an extremely, EXTREMELY low amount.
If you haven't figured it out, Dead By Daylight is a party game. Not a competitive scene with an esports viewership.
Pub players is pub players. As in, public queue-matched players. Whether that's 4 solos, a 4 man SWF, or any mix there within. Solo doesn't necessarily mean they're bad. SWF doesn't necessarily mean they're good. Just whatever comes across from queues. The odds of a person facing an actually insanely good killer, or an actually insanely good lobby of survivors, are both incredibly absurdly small. Most games for an average player, will be against more or less otherwise average players. As in, people who fail to take advantage of mistakes or make huge mistakes on the regular. People that you could give basically every advantage to (best possible build/map/etc) and they'd still lose, cause they don't even know how to take advantage of said strengths to the maximum.