SuzuKR
SuzuKR
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ITT: People justifying Magnus Carlsen playing white in chess is proof that playing white is overpowered because he would be able to win basically every single game he plays white against your average person who knows how to play chess.
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@LittleBigSunset said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169338#Comment_3169338
You're kind of contradicting yourself by saying that pub game 'anecdotes' can't be used as evidence before literally using them as evidence to suggest that all pub lobbies are easy to beat. Just because you won a match with zero perk Trapper doesn't mean that those three lobbies shown that got slaughtered by Nurse were automatically 'easy to beat' lobbies. Maybe they were 'easy to beat' because of the Starstruck combo that this post is discussing?
And if we aren't allowed to use actual matches as evidence of a killer/perk/perk combo's power level, what can we use? If we look at how common this combo is run on Nurse it has to be in the high percentages literally because it is more powerful than every other thing in the game. No other killer has the ability to pick someone up, hook them, then create a snowball effect where people are one shot and then slugged on the floor repeatedly. All in a matter of moments thanks to aura reading perks so the Nurse can instantly blink to the survivor without having to search for them or having to deal with the survivor getting distance before a chase can start. AA contributes to this problem. It itself doesn't need to be nerfed but it only serves to emphasise how powerful this build is and how it in fact has been made even more powerful thanks to a perk that would be interesting at best on other killers.
If the Starstruck Agi AA combo isn't overpowered, why is it literally the only build seen on most competent Nurses? Why are the other perks that have been released that are apparently super good for Nurse never seen at higher MMR? Because this build blows all of them completely out of the water. If we're following the dev's balance philosophy they don't want a stale and decided meta where only certain perks are run because they trump all of the alternatives. This is why perks like Dead Hard were nerfed and weaker ones buffed to encourage a shift. Given the overwhelming popularity and incredible power level of this build I don't see why the devs wouldn't consider it an issue. And seeing as the build/perks itself are far less powerful on any other killer in the game, I stand to see that they will nerf Nurse. Making her blinks special attacks solves the problem as it means that even if the Nurse can see your aura and blink to you straight away they at least are no longer guaranteed an insta-down and have to tackle actual chases instead of getting a dirty insta-down hit and immediate hook.
I honestly can't understand how you can think a build like this is okay, let alone healthy for the game.
What do you think is the reason that there's very good players who have massive winstreaks in this game on pretty much anything regardless of killer or survivor or build? Eg, Ryuga playing pre-buff Legion with meme builds and getting a 150+ or so winstreak. I'm curious to hear what your thoughts on this is.
I'm also curious what makes you think you know if a game is high MMR or not to be able to make a statement like you did in the opening of the third paragraph. Dead Hard was nerfed because it was effectively uncounterable against most killers in this game when used for distance, which in turn led to bloated pickrate. Pickrate + over-reliance on perks is why they shuffled around meta recently, such as Off the Record for Decisive Strike, or Eruption over Ruin, etc. Things like built-in Endurance and Haste, general killer buffs in longer gen times, etc. Guess what Awakened Awareness' release + the downshift of perks like Corrupt, Ruin, Tinkerer, Pop, etc did? It switched around things like Corrupt Ruindying Tinkerer into Call of Brine/Eruption/etc for gen regression, and new variants of chase-heavy builds (Starstruck/Infectious/aura perks/etc) now had a new perk to play with even if gimmicky. Also made them overall less necessary comparatively since the base now exists. You know, literally what devs were trying to go for.
Why would I think the build is a problem? Every Exposed perk has counterplay built into it, and Nurse has her own unique counterplay built in. Both methods are viable routes for playing against it on pretty much everything except horribly tiny maps like Midwich or Gideon. Which need reworks anyways (Midwich gates are awful, there's basically no good loops, the entire map is a hold-W test. Gideon has 25-29 god pallets, basically no good windows, etc.)
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169399#Comment_3169399
You're seriously making the appeal to authority argument for BHVR?
BHVR, who thought that creating and releasing Mettle Of Man was a good idea. BHVR, who heard feedback for nerfing Billy's add-ons and summarily nerfed his power. BHVR, whose many decisions over the development of DbD has at best been mis-guided and at worst stubbornly ignoring the game's problems whilst adding to them?
This is who you're putting your trust in to make good choices?
And what on earth are you even talking about when you say "common sense"? I thought it would be common sense to judge how powerful a build is by playing with it. This theoretical version of the game you have in your head where survivors play perfectly at all times is not even close to how most of the playerbase actually performs. Even the best players are prone to making mistakes from time to time. As it stands you have nothing to base your argument on besides "Well I think so!". When you should know that's not how you structure good arguments.
This smarmy, pretentious attitude you have has clearly done a good job of convincing yourself that everything you say is so obviously correct. And that merely explaining why you're correct is almost an insult. Well, here's a reality check:
- You've responded to sound arguments with dismissal and rudeness
- You've completely ignored evidence that contradicts your point and refuse to even consider why it is that someone might argue against you
- With every comment you've made you only revealed that you know extremely little about how the game is actually balanced
- And you've not entertained even a single comment with good faith
The only person who's a clown here, is you.
Cope.
The copium from someone who doesn't even understand what they're talking about is sidesplittingly hilarious.
DBD has been (more or less) constantly improving in every new patch. Yes, release DBD was busted in a time where it was literally a brand new game balanced around hide-and-seek and not chase. Know what happened? Ash Williams was released on live on April 2, 2019. Guess when Mettle got fixed? June 18, 2019. Just over two months after its release. Hillbilly's semi-rework and Overheat system came out July 28, 2020. Guess what else also happened multiple times since then? Adjustments to overheat, buffs to his best add-ons, etc on August 5, 11 2021 and October 19, 2021. Just over a year since the initial poorly done release.
Decisive Strike in its pre-nerf state? Explicitly mentioned by devs they are working on it. Same with pre-nerf Dead Hard. Same with overstacking of gen regression/second chances. Same with working on trying to come up with ideas for tunneling/camping/slugging (despite it being an arduous process given multiple ideas have been thrown out for being too abusable or too useless). Same with pre-nerf Keys. Same with pre-nerf Moris. And then results delivered, changes made, and the issues basically solved (outside of perk stacking and the game strategies at the moment, and even that is something they're actively working on and have made test changes on).
Wow, gee, I can't possibly figure out what could maybe be the odd one out here. Hmm... could it be? The character that after her (deserved) heavy nerfs, has basically never ever even a single time been stated to be a balance issue? The character that basically only ever was mentioned in regards to bug fixes? A character that has gotten a huge number of perks to play with due to buffs and releases giving her a plentiful selection of perks she can make amazing use of? That has even then, still not once been said to be an issue or that she needs or will receive changes? Nah. Makes no sense.
"I can beat terrible players with (insert build) on (insert character), therefore, (insert) is OP." Genius conclusion. Clearly why every single perk and character in this game is OP, because good players have beaten pub lobbies with all sorts of bizarre and awful builds that cover every perk in this game. Literally not worth wasting any more time trying to explain this, LOL.
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I was wondering when a thread like this would show up LMAO
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You can see the motion lines when she teleports.
What you're suggesting would be visually cool but create huge gameplay issues.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169338#Comment_3169338
What data? What are you talking about? You brought up a counter-point but didn't even try to elaborate or explain why Nurse getting stronger is apparently not an issue. Even though it definitely is.
If pub games are supposedly invalid then what are you using to judge AA as a bad perk? Comp tournaments? KYF games?
Wow, I wonder what the literal creator company of the game who has access to all of the gameplay data and relevant factors can figure out. Gee, I wonder if there's maybe a reason the devs are buffing and releasing perks that clearly make a totally OP killer even more totally OP, all the while never mentioning her being a problem and never changing her.
Common sense? A survivor should pretty much never be in the area in the first place outside of badly designed maps or being in a corner, and even in those cases, lockers still bypass it. Average players don't have a good understanding of how to play as or against anything well. By that logic, let me ask you this. Is Iron Maiden a good perk? Average survivors will get in lockers for all sorts of bizarre reasons, meaning it will likely give location value if not instadown value at least a few times per match. Instantly knowing a survivor's location in a way that cannot be blocked outside of running a super obscure perk (Calm Spirit) + a potential instadown if you catch them in the next 30s is great against randoms.
@threeQuinn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169338#Comment_3169338
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T91RSRM65IMI/image.png
413 win streak in the final recording on twitch (this continues still after the nerf to her addons). That's not just random pub occurrences. With how often people come across a good group, a god squad etc. you're telling me he never came across any? And inb4 "he's a great player, top of the top" you think he, or anyone else would be able to reach anywhere close on any other killer? Blight maybe (just because of all the unintended techs he has), but probably not near 413. Also, he said that Awakened Awareness was a problem before, a still is after the nerf for Nurse in his vids, and he said Nurse needs to be nerfed.
You also give the "perfect play, perfect scenario" advice to counter it, ignoring the fact that not even the majority of swfs play like that. I always say games should balanced near the top, not pro leagues, or the top tier rank, but 2nd top tier rank to maybe gold, but that's not what dbd is like, and it doesn't have a big enough pro scene for it.
Even if one masters the given advice, 99% of their teammates will not follow it and the match will be over in a few minutes.
"My proof is a winstreak against pub lobby players by a 7200h Nurse main that semi-frequently plays competitive, almost always uses strong builds, and usually doesn't hold back."
The fact you think people come across good/god players often and that it's not just them overrating their opponents is hilarious though. But since you clearly haven't paid attention to the actual streak or its process, I'm going to do you a favor and enlighten you on something. Guess what? At multiple points through that streak, he has come extremely close to losing it, and has maintained it through the skin of his teeth. LMAO.
Also, 413, whatever. There's 50-150+ winstreaks for literally every single killer in this game. Guess what? They've dominated those matches because they usually use strong builds, are good players, and get matched against pub lobbies. Guess what else is also true? Solo and SWF escape streaks, the latter currently in 400+ if I remember correctly. If any of the decent comp teams did 4 man SWF and went all-out against pub players every game mostly using some of the strongest possible builds, they would utterly annihilate almost every single game ever because basically no one ever will come close to that level.
I don't know why you think a streamer saying something means it has weight. People with 6,000+ hours can be utter garbage at this game or have some of the dumbest takes like "pallet stun blinds are OP" or "Legion is OP".
Wow, it's almost like no one plays perfect. Amazing how that works, innit? It's almost like if good players can achieve something that worse players can't, it's a skill issue. But hey, surprise, surprise. Guess what? Any given average player is not going to go against insanely good players almost ever. Those insanely good players will likely go against average players for the majority of their matches (given matchmaking literally can't find a lobby of even skill players for them without taking hours). But with how few of those great players there are in proportion to the overwhelming majority of average players, for any given average player, the odds of actually facing a terror like that is insanely small.
"My teammates played badly/had no clue how to play against X properly, so this is clearly a balance issue." Can you actually read what you type first?
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168267#Comment_3168267
That's the problem though. BHVR isn't balancing the game around Nurse. Or nerfing Nurse a bit so perks could be more powerful on other killers. They're re-enforcing Nurse as the most powerful killer in the game by indirectly making her more powerful when they should be buffing every other killer instead.
Dismissing my games for "beating pub players" is an omission of defeat if I ever saw one. You said AA was a terrible perk. I showed you 3 examples that prove it's not. You haven't countered that in any meaningful way. So either admit that you were wrong or show me some actual, valid arguments.
Or... they're doing what they do, because they have the data to realize it's not actually an issue like people claim it is?
Also, a good player can beat pub lobbies with literally anything. I've literally done zero gen regression Trapper with zero add-ons or offerings and slaughtered pub lobbies at 5 gens left before. Beating average players is a given for good players. The fact you think beating average players proves anything is amusing though. I've escaped pub lobby killers using No Mither or zero perk survivor builds. Does that mean those are good? No, it means average players suck.
Friendly reminder, anecdotes aren't evidence.
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Yes. Clearly the solution is to give the unhooker a completely risk-free unhook and heal instead.
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@JoaoVanBlizzard said:
I could understand that none of you read the idea, when you read and understand, comment again
Newsflash: It’s a horribly stupid idea that literally removes counterplay.
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@Peppa_Pigsaw said:
I personally don't mesh well with a few killers without Shadowborn. Billy, Nurse, Blight, and Oni are the worst ones for me. I don't know what causes it or why, but I get really bad headaches or nausea when I play them without it. I've wanted an FOV slider for literal years now but everytime you bring it up you always get shot down by people saying you just want an advantage.
(But they also don't realize that having a higher FOV makes it easier to blind you because there's a wider blind angle, ironic how nobody brings that up)
Exactly, it also holds back some people from being able to try parts of the game.
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You are literally asking for a complete information immunity period. That is god-awful design. Having zero info what’s happening is literally exactly what got Spirit (rightfully) nerfed. Unhooking is designed to be noticeable so the unhooker doesn’t get a scot-free unhook. Let alone a free heal or heal progress.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168277#Comment_3168277
I am not saying SWF and Nurse players are god tier players but obviously both mechanics are gives you more chance to win.
Nurse is strongest killer in the game and if you are good with her, you have good chance to win.
SWF is also good. You know your team and they knows you. You guys have comm and nobody is weak on the team. So ofcourse you have good chance to win.
But you can not do this with solo or most of killers.
So question is that, game needs to balance on which level? Balance game around SWF & Nurse level and make everything strong like them? Or balance game around solo-q & average killers.
This is important question to balance game tho.
Balancing around SWF/Nurse is better, because you will literally never prevent SWF from being a thing, and trying to do so will quite literally kill the game. So, instead, buff solo to their level of information and rebalance killers and the game around that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168299#Comment_3168299
I'm queuing up for fun and a chance to win, neither of which are possible against 99% of nurses these days as a 3 year old player of dbd speaking
She used to be average now she's OP
So then don’t queue up if you’re going to ragequit over a part of the game. Play a single player game and stop ruining it for the others. Or play killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168294#Comment_3168294
Ok thats cool but what does that have to do with anything
They are playing a part of this game for whatever reason they feel like, which is valid. You and the other players are playing a part of this game for whatever reason you feel like, which is valid. So don’t queue up if you’re going to ruin the game for the other 4 players just because it’s not the way you want. Play a single player game if you’re going to do that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168291#Comment_3168291
We Q up for a fun time and a chance to win
Nurse mains Q up to win every single game.
I’m going to blow your mind. People can play strong things because it is fun for them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why play a game you know you're gonna lose from the start? I'm moving on to one I have a chance at winning
Cause it’s not unwinnable? And you queued up knowing that you might face something that is a part of the game? And you ragequitting ruins the experience for all 4 other players? Don’t queue up if you’re going to ruin games for other people the second it’s not the way you like. Play a single player game then.
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Are you seriously trying to say pre-nerf Dead Hard wasn’t OP? LMAO
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Or… players could grow up and get over it. It’s hilarious people act like every Nurse or SWF is god tier players.
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@kizuati said:
or hear me out. delete nurse. I'm in my games to play DBD,not nurse.
Don’t queue up if you aren’t willing to play against a part of the game. Ragequitting is pathetic.
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Friendly reminder to everyone here that BHVR has never had an issue with buffing or releasing good perks for killers even though Nurse exists. 18 different perks received buffs which made them good or insane on Nurse. 40 different perks were released, all of which were okay, great, or insane on Nurse. Of those perks, the majority of them are also good or great on many other killers.
Hell, Starstruck literally was buffed from its useless PTB version, which is literally something a ton of people asked for.
Also another friendly reminder that beating pub lobby players means basically nothing, because any good player can do that with basically anything regardless of side or build.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167001#Comment_3167001
Meanwhile, it costs zero perk slots for the killer to camp.
Survivors would need to waste at least two slots. 1 person having it is not enough if they're the one on the hook.
Doing gens doesn’t require perks and is the built-in counter.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167532#Comment_3167532
injuring entire team is not suppose to easy. your suppose need to work for it. Legion and Plague can injure survivors easily because its part of their power. its their entire gimmick, your suppose learn how to play the game injure the entire game. Its similar to equipping no mither automatically as killer power without the benefits.
If you succeed, its suppose give you a big reward for doing well as killer and it lower the survivors chance at survival. You can technically still escape with 4 survivors but it's not as easy when gens are slower and your permanent instant down.
And that’s exactly what got us in this situation where the perk is basically garbage on everyone except Legion and Plague.
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Around half the time, assuming people don't DC/suicide on hook.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167562#Comment_3167562
Whether immature or not, they aren't being played to play this video game. If it isn't fun they will just stop playing, is that a hard concept for you to understand?
Good riddance? You drastically overestimate the amount of immature players.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167549#Comment_3167549
Again if people are literally quitting the game, rather than playing it out. Then it probably needs to be looked it. I know you guys on the forums think the only people that play this game are killer mains. But, you don't have a game without 4 survivors.
Immature players ragequitting does not mean something needs to be changed. It means they need to grow up. The projection is amusing though. I play solo survivor pretty much as much as I play killer, and I rarely play SWF at all. There's plenty of survivor players who are mature enough to not throw a tantrum over a match being closed out via slug for the 4K.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167518#Comment_3167518
Yes I am saying that this perk is good, on Nurse when you combine it with Starstruck and especially Agitation. Let me explain.
- Downing a survivor doesn't always leave remaining survivors with an escape route to get away from the Nurse. Your logic implies that survivors always have a clear, straight path for maximum distance. This is often not the case with most maps. Especially maps with multiple floors.
- Survivors do not always split up. In fact, with the increase in gen times, Prove Thyself has become more popular. Which means there's a greater chance of multiple survivors working on a single gen. Especially if all survivors are solo que'ing and can't communicate where they are.
- Not seeing a survivor gives you just as much information as seeing someone. If you down a survivor near a gen that was recently repaired, and you don't see anyone within the 20 meter radius, that means that they're either running away and leaving scratch marks that you can look for. Or they are in a locker, or using Distortion. And as I said earlier using Agitation makes the perk even stronger. Allowing you to use the carried survivor as a short-range radar as you travel to a hook. A radar that means instant death for any survivor that you see because of Starstruck
Yes. This perk is really, really good on Nurse.
- That is either a positioning error or risk the survivor voluntarily took, or a map design issue, or bad luck. Which is answered by #3 in my original post.
- If survivors choose to not split up against a non-Twins killer, especially against a killer with heavy snowball potential (eg, Oni/Blight/Spirit/Nurse/etc), that is literally on them for accepting that risk. It's like doing gens while injured to save the time of healing. That is a risk they decided to take, and that is on them. Solo queue needs to have their information buffed. That's a solo queue issue, not anything else.
- You do realize seeing those scratch marks in the first place rely on there not being enough LoS barriers that you yourself stated would make it harder for the survivor to leave the range, right? You admitted just now that it will leave the killer unsure whether someone ran away or whether they're in a locker or whether they're anywhere else in the range with Distortion (a somewhat uncommon perk, but still). That is an incredibly large range of variance, and you will not be able to reliably see said scratch marks unless the map terrain works out in a favorable way in that situation so there's nothing in the way. Otherwise, it is entirely up to a guess. Starstruck doesn't harm a survivor if the killer never realizes they were there or where they are to actually hit them.
- Awakened Awareness + Starstruck + Agitation means 3/4 of the killer's build is something that can be avoided entirely or severely reducing the value for just by by keeping distance from the killer. None of it helps in chase until a previous chase is already won (since all 3 perks rely on getting a down and pick up first). IE, nothing that will be going off in chase. There's also completely zero gen regression on that build. And if you don't see someone in those 20m from Awakened Awareness, it is now entirely up to the killer's game sense or luck to find out where other survivors are. IE, no cue on where to go other than maybe not in the 20m, which could also be false. Unless they run something like Barbecue, which means they quite literally have zero regression and zero perks that will go off in-chase.
It'd be generous to even call this a gimmick perk.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167541#Comment_3167541
Unfun game design is unfun regardless of how you feel about it. If the best option to save my friend is to DC then they should probably look at a way to change the situation.
Um. It's literally the point that it's meant to be incredibly hard for either of you to get out of that situation alive. The killer did exceedingly well and is now closing out the final portion of the match. You are literally not meant to have a reliable way to save yourself of them, because the fact you got in that situation means the killer did better than the survivors as a whole up till that point. Giving an out or more chances to the survivors in that sort of situation is quite literally rewarding failure.
Fun is a subjective standard and thus why it's pretty much irrelevant to balance. The killer is probably having fun going for the fourth kill. So which one matters more? How do you make a subjective thing true for an entire playerbase? You don't. By nature of a versus game, you will never ever have a result that makes all players always happy. And this isn't DBD-specific either.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167533#Comment_3167533
Or make the game not a complete drag. I have never been in a 2v1 situation where the killer slugged and went OH BOY LETS DO THIS AGAIN!
The killer is finishing out a match they dominated, and they want to ensure a 4K rather than a 3K and potential hatch. Wanting the maximum result isn't bizarre.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3167532#Comment_3167532
My only issue is the instant repair slowdown that you get just for landing an m1/power. If it required 2-3 stacks to apply the slowdown then I would say that it's pretty fair.
Which is why 1 injury is only 8%.
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@Biscuits said:
Just make it so that in a 2v1 situation if you sit at max recover for longer than 30 seconds you can stand up.
"Reward survivors for ending up in a 2v1"
Uh, what?
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Eh. That still doesn't really solve the issue with most killers not getting real value out of it. Keeping all 4 injured is next to impossible outside of Legion/Plague. Making it slow down healing is penalizing its intended counter.
If it's 8%/14%/18%/20% penalty to repairing/sabotaging/cleansing for 1/2/3/4 survivors injured/dying/hooked, that solves the actual issue. 14% isn't awful, but it's not super amazing either. Keeping a third injured raises it to 18%. And keeping all four injured is only a 2% difference instead of an absolutely massive amount that would limit the value to basically exclusively Legion and Plague.
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@darkshadows8326 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166938#Comment_3166938
Anti-slug perks like unbreakable are situational and unlikely to be able to be used in this scenario due to being used beforehand or being unused at all. A single perk won't stop them from slugging again only to hold the game hostage a second attempt. Most of the community doesn't use situational perks because of how very little use you get from them. This is to allow the downed survivor not have to sit doing nothing for 4 minutes because the killer wants a little bit of MMR boost and allow the instant kill function on final survivor alive to go through more smoothly when they implement the mechanic.
Why is it wrong for the killer to go for the 4K? If 2 survivors are dead and the third is downed, the killer has pretty much dominated the game. Wanting the maximum result isn't weird.
Do you apply this same standard to survivors going back to unhook the fourth survivor instead of leaving them to die? If they can get a 3-man escape, why go for the fourth? Is it weird they want a 4 man escape over a 3 man escape?
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165055#Comment_3165055
I personally like this, as I despise survivors that do nothing. But it would add another level of stress to the game that I think survivors just wouldn't go for. Having an inactivity timer to worry about on top of worrying about completing gens/unhooking teammates, on top of avoiding being killed, and finally on top of time-based killers like Pig and Freddy would be like basekit pressure for killers.
I don't think it would be a level of stress, personally. As long as you're actually playing, it will never kick in anyways. So it's like, yeah, there's technically a timer, but it's kind of irrelevant unless you're actively refusing to play. So no reason to even worry about it.
@mizark3 said:
This is similar to a solution I came up with for a range of things accelerating a game to a close. For mine I have actions/situations pause, regress, and add to the afk timer, based on what they are doing to the game state.
As far as stealth in general, the game is designed around evading the killer, whether by extending the chase, or never entering it. When all 4 survivors start hiding from the start, preventing the killer from ever interacting with them, then I'd say stealth can be greater touched upon.
Hiding is a part of the game, but hiding for extended periods of time and refusing to try and repair or progress anything else (healing/totems/etc) is against the rules. It's why I have half-speed for when hiding near the killer out of chase.
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You are literally asking for BHVR to remove the counter.
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Ah yes, Awakened Awareness. The perk that…
- A survivor can run 26m away during the 3.5s of fatigue (24m if the survivor misplays and gets hit within a single blink during 3s of fatigue) + 3s to pickup before the killer can even turn around or move. Meaning even a survivor starting 0m from the killer can leave the range before the killer can even move or turn the camera. Basically a joke on every map except super small ones that are poorly designed and need a rework regardless.
- Against a killer survivors should be staying split up against regardless of build, which applies to every single killer except Twins.
- Can be countered by hopping in a locker for a little bit until the killer hooks them even if you’re in a corner of the map and can’t run out.
Wait were you actually saying this perk is good?
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You know, asking your own common sense before posting would've saved you the time.
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Have you considered you're not as good as you think?
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@oxygen said:
What exactly do you mean with "when the hook suicide mechanic wasn't available"? Am I somehow forgetting something or what, pretty sure it has always been a thing, as an effect of failed escape attempts. Like it's right there in footage of very early DBD.
@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166627#Comment_3166627
guy must be smoking something cause yeah its always been there.
@Kirahie said:
When was hook escape not a mechanic?
I'm not talking about the ability to self-unhook at a risk of lowered timer on failed attempts. I'm talking about the ability to specifically die early. Previously, not pressing the button for struggle, currently, ignoring two struggle skillchecks in a row.
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SWF is unavoidable. Trying to remove the ability to SWF won't work, because even if you remove the ability to queue together, people will queue solo timed together until they get in a lobby together. And trying to remove it in the first place is stupid, because at its core, it is just friends playing together. Similarly, the usage of voice communication tools (such as Discord) is also unavoidable.
So, what advantages does SWF have inherently? Well, they're able to tell the other players various bits of helpful information (assuming they actually do callouts). Are they inherently good? No, they could be literally any skill level or coordination level. Playing with friends doesn't mean you play well together, it just means you and them can tell each other things.
So what does that mean? Solo players do not have the capability to exchange information. So give them the capability to do so, whether it's through status icons/preset message ping wheel on a short cooldown/etc. Then, all survivors are SWF regardless if they queued together. This means BHVR no longer has to balance around differences in levels of information, and can balance the game around all survivors being SWF no matter what. Obviously, there will still be differences from differences in skill level, but that has nothing to do with solo or SWF, only information level does.
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166507#Comment_3166507
or do the opposite and nerf the 2 that seem to be a little out of line.
Nurse and Blight are perfectly balanced with the exceptions of range/3 blink and Alch Ring/C33/C21 respectively. Nerfing them doesn't make any other killer more appealing to play except by comparison.
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If you want to see more killers, then advocate for the weaker killers to be buffed to be more appealing.
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@LeFennecFox said:
Maybe they could take a hint from VHS and add some anti stalemate mechanic. They have the rift that either side can capture that gives aura reading for a while. To counter stalemates they should spawn a glyph after 1 minute of no chase happening that the killer can use cause the survivors to scream or gives 10 seconds of aura reading that can't be blocked by lockers/perks.
That sounds pretty interesting as well. Would definitely need some restrictions though, otherwise killer could avoid chase on purpose if it’s too easy to use.
@buffcoyote said:
My only concern is that despite your intentions, it may still have the unintended effect of giving the location away of survivors that are playing fairly. The timer shouldn't be paused whenever they perform a Conspicuous Action, it should be stopped completely and reset after they are completing an action (repairing gens, cleansing totems, healing, unhooking, etc). I believe it should be bumped to 3-5 minutes to protect survivors and the consistency of this proposed system. If you aren't doing anything but crouching/walking around after 5 minutes of game time, I believe that is sufficient enough.
The reason I had it the way it currently is was so that survivors trolling on purpose can’t wait till like 30s left and then finally snuff a single totem just to completely reset the timer. I don’t think there should be more ways to reset the timer. Maybe a generator being fully finished, or a Hex totem being snuffed/blessed, since those give an obvious location reveal. I think 5m is a bit excessive, I think 3m would be fine for some more leniency though.
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164794#Comment_3164794
The only issue with the full reset instead of the pause is that you can have permahiding survivors crawl up to a gen, tap it for a fraction of a second, and then go back to a locker. I've already seen survivors do this to avoid crows, and they can do this several times before the gen even gives the barest "I've been worked on" sound.
Maybe have conspicuous actions wind the timer backwards instead of resetting it entirely? And 5 minutes does sound fairer than 2.
That’s also an interesting idea. Having to stay productive to "buy" time back. I like it!
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@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165006#Comment_3165006
considering how you've treated other people that actually want to discuss and have respectful conversation i don't see why i would waste my time talking to you. mob opinion means a lot more then someone stating they're opinion as fact like you did. mizark3 gave a good example why your strategy of just leaving the area doesn't work the way you assume it does but funnily you never answered that and ignored him because your so called facts are nothing more then opinion. like i said at the end of my last comment you are not worth talking to and i won't be wasting my time talking to you anymore.
So you have nothing to actually counterdiscuss. Thanks for not wasting my time. :)
@Brokenbones said:
Kinda surprised a Nurse main would put out content like this tbh
Some people who main Killers like Nurse act like if you don't think they're fine as is that you're some kind of massive ignorant survivor main who hates balance, fun and wants to just bully every killer (Which 90% of the time is far from the truth)
Then again, nerfing perks because of 1 killer isn't really how BHVR should be tackling things like this anyway but that seems to be the road we're on.
I don't think Nurse is to blame for why a lot of modern killer perks are lackluster sometimes but I do think she has a lot of influence more than any other killers of the roster.
That reminds me actually, McLean answered a question on his stream like a year or two ago. It was about how often Nurse comes up in talks about designing perks. His answer was it was more often than expected, but that there was never a case where they scrapped an idea just cause of Nurse.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164970#Comment_3164970
- Alf's experience is completely irrelevant to the conversation, because the entire point is that this build doesn't require much skill. Specifically in this video, there is nothing he did that was particularly skillful
- Game balance needs to account for extremes--in this case the strongest possible builds & killers
- 99% of players play in pub lobbies, so of course we're critiquing the build with respect to their skill
- The video demonstrated just how easy this was to replicate on larger maps like Ormond and Suffocation Pit
- Again, this video is showcasing average players, for whom the game needs to be balanced around
Balancing around average players makes problems for playing as or against good players, because that means you are balancing with the assumption people play awfully and making frequent mistakes as a basis. Then when you’re at a level where that does not apply to you or your opponents, suddenly, it is unbalanced again.
Yes, better players will get more use out of some things and less use out of other things. But regular players also will not be facing those insane players frequently at all. At an all around average level of play, people aren’t even good enough to use whatever tools they have optimally regardless, and they’ll probably make throw level mistakes half a dozen times a match.
This is why stuff like old DS DH BT UB on 4 man SWF meant basically nothing on average players cause they suck anyways, while getting a bit ridiculous at very high levels of play.
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@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164970#Comment_3164970
it's funny how almost everyone in the thread disagrees with you but instead of considering you might be wrong you throw a tantrum like a child and start trying to insult people. do you honestly think anyone is gonna take you seriously with they way you act? have you tried maybe talking to people how you would want to be talked to? i imagine not since i've seen you act the same way on other threads. to anyone who read this far into the discussion ignore this guy he ain't worth talking to.
You are free to give an actual counterpoint if you feel like discussing. I don’t know why you think I care about mob opinion. Majority opinion does not change facts.
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@Reinami said:
The problem is that they release the PTR, and see bugs or issues, which is great. But then they fix them in the launch patch. they don't do a second PTR to test their "changes from PTR".
Realistically, PTR comes out 3 weeks before the patch. Why are they not updating the PTR weekly, or hell even daily with changes to test things out?
BHVR explained it a while back. Sending out a PTB "patch" requires approval and time. So doing that to test changes over and over would be very time-consuming and inefficient.
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This but unironically. I genuinely have fun every game regardless of side or build.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164947#Comment_3164947
Still being condescending...
Would you like to rephrase? I'll give you one more chance for me to take you seriously.
I don’t know why you think I care about the opinion of someone who clearly doesn’t even actually understand the situation they’re talking about.
- Extremely absurdly good player with literally thousands of hours of experience
- Using a fairly strong build (Agi/Infectious/Starstruck + double recharge)
- Against pub lobby players
- On one of the smallest maps in the game (which matters a lot, given the build is literally about TR) which is also one of the best killer maps in the game
- Against players that will literally try and hide near the Nurse despite knowing she has Infectious/Starstruck and can see she moves at Agitation speeds, when it’s exceedingly obvious that means Nurse would check near where the Infectious procs happened
It’s amusing you think you actually have a point. But I’d prefer if you educate yourself on the matter if you actually want to discuss. Thanks!
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164911#Comment_3164911
You're still refusing to acknowledge how easy this all is for nurse, in favor of snoody sarcastic remarks. Nice.
My bad, stuff should be nerfed so people that stay crouching behind objects in exceedingly close range to Nurse despite knowing she has Infectious Fright don’t get punished. Even without AA, they would be screwed because they don’t have any sense of self-preservation.
Wow, I can’t believe how easy the game is when I play on a map that largely favors me against people who are way worse than me and don’t have the slightest clue how to play against all 4 of my perks. Yeah, makes no sense.