Stabby_Widdershins
Stabby_Widdershins
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311038#Comment_3311038
And I've already explained why it's not BS or abuseable, as it requires Survivors to make some extremely poor plays to get mileage out of it, which have little chance of paying off.
Fun fact: I'm not a Survivor main. I main Knight. I'm just impartial enough to know a decent idea when I see it. But keep screeching with rage at the thought of Killers receiving even the slightest nerf.
Clearly you DON'T know a good idea, because this idea is terrible.
And I don't screech at every Killer nerf, but have fun pretending you're a Killer main while pushing an idea Survivors would abuse to high hell.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310080#Comment_3310080
Last I checked, Bubba has a perfectly good sledghammer.
How is it every other killer camps again?
Last I checked, ideas that allow Survivors to almost at-will turn off a Killer power for 15+ seconds are complete garbage.
Survivors would run to the hook, let themselves get hit, then unhook while Bubba is in the cooldown animation where he can't even swing his hammer.
It should not be this difficult for people to see. The idea is spiteful BS.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310981#Comment_3310981
This thread is calling for the removal of a BS, abusable mechanic that Killers can activate at-will. But you've evidently become so accustomed to facecamping on Bubba that you can't imagine the game without it.
No, it's calling for a BS abuseable mechanic.
But entitled Survivors always acts like the game revolves around their perspective, and attack anyone who speaks up.
Fun fact, buddy: I don't play Bubba. I mostly derp around as Trapper. I'm just impartial enough to see a broken idea when I see it. But keep screaming for spiteful 'fixes' because you can't win.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310961#Comment_3310961
According to you, the guy who loses 3 gens every match before they can get a single down.
If you can't deal with not being able to instadown a Survivor after they make a stupid play, the problem is you.
If you can't deal with a Killer camping and just do gens & leave, the problem is you.
I'm not the one demanding a BS, abuseable mechanic that Survivors can activate at-will.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310864#Comment_3310864
Bubba can literally spam instadowns in front of the hook. There is NOTHING the survivors can do to rescue against a facecamping Bubba. It sounds to me like you've just gotten accustomed to turning off your brain and facecamping to death.
So, best-case scenario for the survivor, they tanked a hit and then unhooked, and then went down. That's called hook trading, and it's something that EVERY Killer has to deal with, and it's really not that bad for the Killer. It means they get another down in without having to commit to a full chase, or waste any time carrying the Survivor to the hook.
How exactly is Artist's power so fundamentally different from Bubba's that weakening/disabling it near the hook is fine for her, but not for Bubba? Her power causes the exact same problems at hooks; she can go through health states so quickly that it'd be almost impossible to rescue against a camping Artist.
Whether against a Bubba or a powerless M1 Killer, running them near the hook is one of the worst things you can do, and Artist stands as proof of this. You act like Bubba doesn't have an M1.
None of that is an excuse to turn Bubba into a M1 Killer for 15+ seconds just because the Survivor ran in range of a hooked Survivor while he was using his chainsaw.
The idea is bad. No amount of verbal or mental acrobatics will excuse an easily-abused mechanic meant to spite Bubba. Stop trying.
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Just give CoH 'charges':
- Say, 2 health-states worth of charges (This amount can be changed for balance purposes). Once they are used up, CoH de-activates on that totem. (Worded this way in case more than one boon is on the totem; ONLY CoH deactivates).
- Once used up; that totem cannot have CoH re-applied to it for the remainder of the match.
- If a Killer Snuffs that totem; the charges are remembered for that totem. IE: If someone re-applies CoH; it has the same amount of charges it had when it was Snuffed.
Fixed. Survivors can't infinitely re-apply CoH, and it eventually runs out, in case they apply it in a dead-zone that the Killer would have to waste time running too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360115/slugging-for-the-4k-needs-to-go
95% of the survivors have no problem spending 2 minutes at the exit gate game, after game, after game, day in and day out.
- Why is another 4 minutes such a big issue??
Because they only care if they're losing.
- Killers have to chase Survivors out of the match every match because Survivors are having fun.
- Killers should not be able to slug, tunnel, camp, or stack strong perks because Survivors are not having fun.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310725#Comment_3310725
Unless your name is Bubba and you have an on-demand instadown. Hello?
If 3 gens are consistently popping before the end of your first chase, you're just bad. Even assuming all of the survivors are repairing 100% optimally (Which they often aren't), getting ran for 90 seconds in your first chase every time is the mark of someone who doesn't know how to chase.
To "exploit" these nerfs, the Survivor must run the Killer next to their hooked teammate without rescuing them. Which is one of the worst things a Survivor can do. The Killer essentially gets the benefits of camping without the downsides; they get to farm hits on the Survivor they're chasing while still denying the unhook.
Artist can't use her power next to hooks, period. And yet she remains one of the strongest Killers in the game. Because power or no, only an idiot would purposely run the Killer next to the hook.
If 3 gens are consistently popping before the end of your first chase, you're just bad.Yeah, sure. It's always 'A Killer is just bad' and 'Git gud' for Killers, but 'Give us broken BS mechanics' for Survivors.
To "exploit" these nerfs, the Survivor must run the Killer next to their hooked teammate without rescuing them. Which is one of the worst things a Survivor can do.Except it would stop being 'the worst thing' because now the Survivor has forced the Cannibal into 'Screw your power for 15+ seconds' exploits and can tank a hit while unhooking their friend, who is ALSO safe because the chainsaw is powered off for 15+ seconds.
Artist can't use her power next to hooks, period. And yet she remains one of the strongest Killers in the game.Almost like you can't compare 2 different powers. Not that that stops Survivors from attempting the mental gymnastics to demand exploits like this BS.
Because power or no, only an idiot would purposely run the Killer next to the hook.That would change if this idea were implemented, at which point it would become a tactic to turn off the Cannibal's power by running around the hook.
NOTHING you said negates any of my points. The idea is terrible, abuseable, and spiteful. You have not actually addressed any of that. You have only said 'Well, nuh-uh!'.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310584#Comment_3310584
Or maybe the Killer gets lucky and gets their first down early in a deadzone.
Why do you seem to care so much about hook timers? They barely come into play unless you're facecamping at the first hook, i.e. performing the most brainless Killer strategy possible. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think the Killer deserves to be rewarded for standing in one place and staring at the hooked Survivor all match.
Or maybe the Killer gets lucky and gets their first down early in a deadzone.Rofl. Sure. Almost never happens. Not an excuse for a broken idea like OP's.
Why do you seem to care so much about hook timers?Where did I mention hook timers?
- I pointed out that 3 gens pop in the first chase, which is true.
- I also mentioned OP's idea is easily abused. Which is true.
- I pointed out this idea exists to punish Killers over bruised egos instead of fixing the problem. Which is true.
- I also mentioned Survivors can punish camping by doing gens. Which is true.
So where did I mention hook timers? Call me old-fashioned, but I don't believe Killers should have their powers taken away for 15 freaking seconds because the Survivor led them to the hook and decided to grind on it like their name is 'Candi'.
I'll say it again; This idea is terrible in every way. It exists simply to slap Killers in the face because the writer was upset they could not get free unhooks, and now thinks 'Kneecap Killers with a mechanic I can invoke at will just by running to the hook' is a proper response.
Let me go point by point:
Nerf:The Cannibal can no longer put Survivors into the Dying State while within 8 meters of a hooked Survivor. This effect also lingers for 15 seconds if The Cannibal is within 16 meters of the hooked Survivor.
Brokenly OP and easily abused; Run at the hook while the Cannibal is in a Chainsaw Sprint. Now the Survivor has FIFTEEN SECONDS of insta-down immunity.
Nerf:The Cannibal will now instantly cancel his chainsaw sweep upon hitting a Survivor within 8 meters of a hooked Survivor. This will also consume all of his chainsaw sweep tokens.
Brokenly OP. The Killer's entire kit is put on cooldown and he's forced out of it because his target dry-humped a hooked Survivor.
Nerf:The Cannibal now recharges all chainsaw tokens 50% slower than before if he hits a Survivor within 8 meters of a hooked Survivor.
Once again; brokenly OP. His kit now recharges slower simply because his target ran AT a hooked Survivor.
Every part of that idea is easily abused by licking hooked Survivors while the Cannibal is mid-sprint. It's nothing but rage and spite to 'punish' a Killer instead of thinking about ANY balance in the slightest.
Horrible idea in every way, shape, and form.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310080#Comment_3310080
The cooldown of Chainsaw Sweep is not so long that Bubba can't just M1 the unhooker afterwards.
Also, you are aware that hook timers are shorter than gen times? It takes 2 minutes for someone to die on hook. In the time it takes that person to die, the Survivors can do 4 gens- maybe. To prevent the Killer from getting a 2K by facecamping, they have to do at least one unhook.
Are you aware that your 'maybe' does not take into account skillchecks and perks?
Survivors run gen-speed perks in this meta. Killers have almost NOTHING that speeds up hook states. So turn your 'maybe' into 'Survivors will, 99% of the time, do 4-5 gens if the Killer camps once.'
And you can't tell me I'm wrong; 3 gens usually pop in the first chase. If the Survivors can't do 2 more during the 2 minute camp, then that's their problem.
Once again, this idea is an easily abused joke meant to spitefully punish Killers and soothe bruised egos while giving Survivors a mechanic they can invoke at will, instead of actually fix the issue in a balanced, well-thought-out way.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
Then remove NOED.
Not even close to the same.
Survivors can erase NoED. before it's useable Killers can't remove DH before it gets used.
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@GensByDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309867#Comment_3309867
It takes 90 seconds for a survivor to do a gen alone, with no great skill checks and no perks that increase gen speeds. Even a new survivor will hit great skill checks sometimes.
It takes 360 seconds for a killer to fully regress a gen with no regression perks, thats 6 minutes...
Even with COB it still takes 180 seconds for a killer to fully regress a gen.
Overcharge has to stay on the gen for 30 seconds to stack up to full regression...
It will take over 2 minutes to fully regress a generator with both COB and Overcharge if no survivor touches the generator.
I don't think you even have an argument anymore.
You also forgot that it takes Killers 3 seconds to kick a gen.
Survivors can, literally, 'gen tap' in a single frame of animation. 1/60th of a second & they stopped the regression that took 3 seconds to start.
Just more proof the time economy is heavily weighted in Survivor favor, while there's already 4 of them that can do 4 different things at the same time. Which is more proof the devs have 0 clue how this game plays from a Killer perspective.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310053#Comment_3310053
If the Survivors are just dancing around the hook instead of unhooking, they're not doing gens and most likely giving Bubba free hits. I fail to see Bubba's disadvantage in this situation.
It would be ONE Survivor, while TWO do gens.
And they would run to the hook the second Bubba started his chainsaw sweep. Suddenly, Bubba has 0 charges, they regenerate slowly, and he's recovering from a hit that did NOTHING, giving the chainsaw-immune Survivor ample time to unhook and bolt.
This idea is horrible and easily abused, like every 'fix' Survivors come up with. If you 'fail to see' the disadvantage, it's because you're ignoring it to give Survivors a mechanic they can maliciously abuse at will.
Here's the real fix for Survivors: If a Killer is camping; Give the hooked Survivor extra BP for being a distraction while the other 3 do gens and leave.
Killers will soon learn to stop camping the MOMENT Survivors stop rewarding it with this 'I deserve unhooks because I want them' mentality. Survivors keep rewarding camping, then scream about how 'unfair' it is that the Killer is not forced to 12 hook while they run every second chance perk + BNPs + voice comms. 🤦♂️
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Hahaha! Hahahahaha, no!
Survivors would just pack that perk that pauses hook states, then dry-hump the hook to punish the Cannibal.
Why is it every suggestion to 'fix' camping is nothing more than a massive punishment that Survivors can abuse maliciously?
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As far as I am aware; Survivors can ruin an entire Adept run by DCing.
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@lemonsway said:
DC penalties are dumb because they're a solution to a problem that can be avoided by having a better game and better players. Had BHVR a clue about their game they'd have a game where people would enjoy playing it instead of being frsutrated and scared of getting camped and tunneled and abandonned after going down...
You do realize some people will DC no matter how 'fun' a game is, the second they begin to lose, right?
Because, to them, only winning is fun.
And you can't fix that kind of DCing mentality. Anything short of giving them cheats won't keep them from DCing.
Thus; the DC penalty. Most multiplayer games have one, and your solution is quite literally impossible to make. 'Just make the most fun game ever and people won't DC!' Sure, sure. And...any idea how to make a game so fun that no one ever wants to DC in a fit of rage?
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309413#Comment_3309413
So? Who cares if the strongest killer in the game can't reliably use a bunch of perks? She doesn't need them. Yes, it does suck there are some non-exposed perks that she wont be able to use now, but I think Nurses will manage without Unrelenting and Knock Out.
And as I mentioned, you can still run Spasmodic Breath if you wanna use some of those perks.
Clearly Survivors don't care, and the devs have shown that's all that matters; What Survivors want.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309413#Comment_3309413
That all sounds good to me.
Of course they do.
Survivors are content that Nurse is being thoughtlessly gutted a second time. Even the thread title shows it.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309278#Comment_3309278
Definition of competetive game is "Competitive games are those in which players play against one another and where one player winning means another player loses"
If killer "won" by killing 3 survivors, that means one of them escaped and thus "won", then both sides won - killer, and survivor, and this by itself means that dbd is not competetive game.
Also, "entity displeased" does not mean "lose", you can still pip up... did you won or lost then? there is not enough condition to even tell if killer won or lost, and this also is against argument that dbd is competetive game since Killer cannot "win" for sure. More, surv escape and de-pip at the same time means they done nothing in the trial... are those really victorious? Game never said "survivors won", so how we know? Win condition in dbd are contractual, not established. Dbd by definition is NOT competetive game.
So it's not competitive because there's differing grades of Killer winning? Since 1 Survivor can win alongside the Killer, it's not competitive? Keep reaching.
The Killer's GOAL is to kill EVERYONE. The Survivors GOAL is to NOT BE KILLED & escape.
Therefore; they are competing against each other. Your verbal gymnastics are useless and incorrect.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309351#Comment_3309351
The fact is Nurse doesn't need access to exposed perks. Why is it bad that she can't use them?
If you -really- want to run them, you've got Spasmodic Breath that makes them more viable I guess?
Because it's not only exposed perks. Think of EVERY perk that does not proc on special attacks:
- Franklin's (But Survivors will claim this is 'fair' because of course they will)
- Jolt is no longer useable on her
- No more Knock Out (It says 'basic attack' right on it)
- Can't use Save The Best For Last, since it says 'Each time you hit someone other than your obsession with a basic attack'
- Can't use Sloppy Butcher
- No more Unrelenting
Sure, not all of them are USEFUL on Nurse, but I bet dollars to donuts the devs did not even think of this list before this change. Just like they did not think of the fact that the Nurse uses her power to move around when they gutted it awhile back.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309339#Comment_3309339
Sorry you cant crutch on exposed perks as Nurse?
I'm sorry you failed to address any points in my post and lack the skills to play around a Killer?
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People will still fail to win against her and yell for more nerfs.
Blink attacks being special attacks is BS, by the way. The Nurse literally can't attack normally, because she's slower than Survivors.
So it's more BHVR giving Survivors what they want while not even thinking about how the nerfs work in a real gameplay setting in the slightest. Kind of like how they nerfed her Blink to begin with, while forgetting (or ignoring) that it's not only her offensive power, but also how she moves around the map.
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@jajay119 said:
Killers are already in the stronger position be seeing what survivors are bringing in throughout the entire loadout time. I would love to know prior to the match if I'm going against a hag so I can bring a flashlight to burn the traps, or if I'm going against a nurse, who I always assume has BBQ, so I can equip Distortion...but I can't because that's not how it works. 1/4 people occasionally trying to mislead you at the last minute doesn't merit a rework to make the killer even stronger, I don't feel, sorry.
You do realize Killer would be unplayable if Survivors could see who they picked and build accordingly, right?
Killers are supposed to be the power role (before BHVR spent years catering to Survivors only), hence why they can see what Survivors bring. So preventing last-second switches is perfectly reasonable.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309269#Comment_3309269
Survivor can win by escaping, okay. But there are no win condition to the killer. Even those 3k is unofficial win condition. But even if i give you that, one survivor escaped, so three was killed, so killer won... and survivor won... so yes, both can win. Also, only one surv died, then surv lost, and killer lost... so no side won? No, dbd is not competetive game even with this logic.
But even if it was, Being competetive does not means it cant be fun and interactive.
Except 1 kill is 'Entity Displeased' indicating that the Killer did, indeed, NOT win.
It baffles me how people act like the Killer 'has no win condition'. If the Killer gets 1 or 2 kills; he lost. If he gets 3 or 4; he won.
And again; the sides compete against each other to win, so it is competitive, no matter what verbal acrobatics you use to change definitions to fit your narrative. Or are you seriously telling me Survivors don't compete against the Killer to win?
By definition, it's competitive, like EVERY PvP game.
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I always see 'DBD is not a competitive game!'
Yes, yes it is. Each side is COMPETING AGAINST THE OTHER to win. Since both sides cannot win, it is competitive.
I think most people mean DBD is not an e-sport level game. Which is different all together.
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No a good idea, no offense.
Imagine a good loop. Now imagine chasing someone in that good loop while 3 other people do gens means any hook progress someone had is erased.
No way.
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Nowhere did I say I used it. You're just flailing and screaming that people 'exploited' based on your hurt feelings because you lost.
But you do you. Just don't be surprised when no one gets banned for using a perk combo just because a Survivor got salty.
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@Spill said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308821#Comment_3308821
That's because the survivor meta was effectively nerfed. EVERY game the survivors have a HUGE VARIETY. It's beautiful. For the first time in years survivors are running interesting and diverse builds. I see balanced landing. I see small game.
And even when they do bring Dead Hard - the successful DH is RARE. The Meta shake up was EXTREMELY effective with Survivors.
You CANNOT argue that this killer meta is not problematic. LOCKING a game for an HOUR is an EXPLOIT. That is not up for debate.
And you defending it is HIGHLY questionable. I took these screenshots because I knew the exploiters would try to say its not meta or a problem. Sorry hun. I brought receipts. You didn't.
I don't care if you say 'It's not up for debate' because guess what?
It's not an exploit. There, I debated it.
Sorry, hun. Your 'receipts' don't change the definition of an exploit.
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@Spill said:
The fact the devs have left such a broken exploit in their game is quite disgusting. And yes this is an exploit. Just because it is working as intended does not mean this is not a broken mechanic. There's a reason all of the killers are using this build. It's because it is borderline cheating.
There are literal videos of killers locking players in an hour long game until the lobby self destructs. HOW WAS THIS NOT KILL SWITCHED IMMEDIATELY? That is UNREASONALBE. This should have been addressed that day.
I had a 3 day weekend for the holiday and this is only HALF of screenshots I took. I'm too exhausted to keep editing more evidence
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/742QI0QWOXJG/20221126021526-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4EQHS0OMW7MC/20221126231943-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C0S41V5THCOU/20221129213609-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4B3SH0E1RTD5/20221130205005-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YEL3JRBMLFAO/20221201192159-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NETJ8W4ZZADO/20221202202924-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ECMRRSCH3ZD7/20221204140950-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B0L7IK3QVTBA/20221204142616-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V8KAWQ2NBLOZ/20221204155003-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AYLBX6555JET/20221204164830-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WT9YOV3RC1FD/20221204193622-1.jpg
Today I learned Killer strong perks are 'exploits' and should be removed because Survivors are angry when they can't twerk out the exit gates.
Weird how I never see Survivors claiming the Survivor meta is an exploit. Or voice communications.
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@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308795#Comment_3308795
It's funny that it's an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit but when it comes to killers, anything goes and it's all valid. I believe you already posted before that you are a biased killer because you've had bad behaviored survivors hurt your feelings so obviously there is no winning this with you. No point to reply to this as I will not entertain you anymore. We both already know where we stand in this topic. Happy new Year. I hope the best for you.
I'm replying because you attacked me, so don't try to scurry away like you're right. Because you're not.
It's funny that it's an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit but when it comes to killers, anything goes and it's all valid.Except you're wrong. Killers literally have 0 ways to leave to end a match early that are non-reportable. DC: Reportable. AFK: Reportable. Work with Survivors: Reportable.
So you're wrong.
I believe you already posted before that you are a biased killer because you've had bad behaviored survivors hurt your feelings so obviously there is no winning this with you.I don't recall saying I'm a biased Killer. Last time it was brought up, I said I mainly play Killer. If you think that's 'biased'; that's your problem.
And it's not a discussion to 'win'. So there's your problem; you want to 'win' the discussion, so you refuse to see opposing points of view.
We both already know where we stand in this topic.Yes, we do.
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@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308685#Comment_3308685
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed. The devs gave survivors a way to unhook themselves, although a very small chance of it happening, and they used it. They are using a valid tactic in the game to leave. If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match. Killers get their hooks/sacrifices/kills, survivor gets to leave.
Survivors and killers both ruin the game for each other. This won't ever be changed. As long as there is a "win by any means" strategy, it will create bad environments for everyone. Games ARE supposed to be fun. That's the reason you play them. Getting achievements will be fun for some, just messing around will be fun, killing everybody with no remorse will be fun. To each their own. What are you spending money on it for? Just to throw money in the trash?
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed.No, they are exploiting an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit while avoiding DC penalties.
If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match.And every other currently-known ways to 'quit' the match are all reportable: AFKing, running at the Killer to die faster, etc. All are reportable.
So why is this ONE WAY sudden so holy and blessed as a workaround? It's an exploit, plain and simple. When I hook someone and they IMMEDIATELY start trying to get off the hook and fail their skillchecks; I report them.
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Hooks should be changed to prevent hook-DCing.
'You can't force people to stay in a game they are not enjoying'. YES YOU CAN! When you join a multiplayer game, you are making a tacit agreement to play out the match, win or lose. Because the alternative is everyone quitting whenever they get their underwear in a knot, and then no one wants to play because matches never finish.
If someone is going to ragequit the second they're 'not enjoying' a match; They need to stop playing. Now. All they are doing is ruining the game for everyone else by logging in, quitting the second things go pear-shaped, and then patting themselves on the back with excuses on how they had a right to ragequit on the hook because they 'were not having fun' and 'games are supposed ot be fun'.
Guess what? It's not fun for your teammates when you (hypothetical 'you', not anyone in this thread) flip the table and hook DC because you were found too fast, found first, it's a map you don't like, it's a Killer you don't like, Killer is using perks you don't like, whatever new excuse Survivors use to hook DC.
Bottom line is that hook stages need to be changed:
- Trying to get off the hook no longer increases progression
- Lower attempts to get off the hook to 2, since everyone will be doing it every time now
- Any item or perk that 'increases the chance of getting off the hook' now gives you +1 attempts
- Create a 'Self-Unhook' debuff that only procs if someone successfully self-unhooks without Deliverance or other perks. The debuff blocks self-healing for a short amount of time, but teammates can still heal you. The duration increases for each failed self-unhook attempt.
- You can no longer fail skillchecks in Stage 2 to die faster. Instead, failing skillchecks gives a 'Touched by the Entity' debuff. This debuff reduces all channeled action speed (healing, opening chests, repairing, opening gates) for a set time after being unhooked. The duration is increased for each skillcheck failed.
Fixed.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308040#Comment_3308040
More a response to your overall position than this particular post, but why exactly should there be risk for using an anti-camping perk? The entire purpose is to punish killers for being glued to hooks and not taking chases to leave, doesn't it defeat the purpose to ensure there must be risk to use it?
Take a facecamping Bubba in the basement. Right now, you have to risk going into the basement and getting downed just to activate a perk that is supposed to punish that Bubba for camping. Doesn't that seem backwards? Shouldn't it be that the Leatherface has to stare at a glowing survivor without ever seeing the other survivors, specifically because those survivors brought a perk that punishes that playstyle?
Certainly, there's a maximum range this should have that should be pretty low, but having that range be "just enough to proc from the middle of shack" should be reasonable. It wouldn't allow the perk to do anything other than punish camping, which is what it's supposed to do.
why exactly should there be risk for using an anti-camping perk?Because camping is sometimes valid, and the perk does not exist to punish all camping all the time everywhere without risk. Nor should Survivors get a risk-free punishment perk just because they hate camping.
having that range be "just enough to proc from the middle of shack" should be reasonableOnce again, no, because you're ignoring how increasing it to 'just enough for shack' buffs it everywhere else. No buff or nerf exists in a vacuum.
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@Distortion_Enjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308035#Comment_3308035
ok buddy, not sure why you are trying to argue a non existent point, play how you want
I'm not sure you know what words mean, at this point. Or do you think you claiming I don't have a point magically makes it so?
Let me be more clear:
- YOU deciding Killers don't kill does not mean they don't. Because they literally do kill.
- YOU deciding the point of the game is to 'get BP' and that the Killers don't win by killing does not mean that's EVERYONE's goal. Nor does it mean that's actually the point of the game.
- What 'you think' does not govern how other people play the game, or what the winstate is for said game.
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Gotta love how:
- The 3gen needs to be inpossible
- Slugging needs punishments
- Camping needs punishments
- Tunneling is unfair
- Nurse needs nerfs
- NoED should be removed
- And more
So...How, exactly, are Killers supposed to win, when Survivors expect 'fair play' and demand 'think about my fun' and demand 12 hook matches while bringing 4-man SWFs kitted out with META perks and using discord?
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@Ayodam said:
Reassurance either needs a much broader range (20+ meters) or repeated use per hook with a cooldown. And here’s why: if it can only be used once per hook state, then it needs a greater range so it isn’t basically a survivor detriment (killer gets a hook on survivor applying reassurance, who wasted time running to the hook and then has to waste time healing after the killer hits them, which counters some of the time reassurance would potentially buy). If a survivor is close enough to reassure they’re essentially close enough to save. It’s just not useful—even in camping situations (tbh Kinship is technically better although a survivor has to run that). At best they’re giving the killer pressure, at worse they’re trading hooks or creating a hook + slug situation. If it doesn’t have a better range then it should apply more than once per hook state. I don’t believe for an instance killers care about ‘survivors holding other survivors hostage.’ And frankly, I don’t see how that’s any different than survivors blocking one another in, or pretend saving from hook.
Reassurance either needs a much broader range (20+ meters)Brokenly OP. Be able to pause the hook without getting anywhere NEAR M1 Killers.
repeated use per hook with a cooldownBrokenly OP. Imagine all 4 Survivors bringing Reassurance and taking turns running past the hook; They could leave that Survivor on the hook infinitely.
Which is how it worked on the PTB, and how it was abused. So you're literally asking for the PTB Reassurance that can be used to give an infinite hook state.
And I already pointed out that 1 Survivor can Reassure while 2 more do gens, so it's not applying much pressure for the Killer, at all.
No and no.
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@Distortion_Enjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308015#Comment_3308015
That's not what i think, that's the lore of the game, you don't even kill anyone, you sacrifice them to the entity after filling them with juicy emotions from the ordeal you put them through, the entity consumes the emotions and plops the survivor back at the campfire without any memory of what happened, ready to go again
MECHANICALLY, you kill them and remove them from the match.
Not lore. Not background. Not what you think. The programmed mechanics are that you kill them by sacrificing them to the Entity.
That is the Killer PLAYER'S goal; to kill them.
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Honestly, his traps should be invisible outside of 15 meters away, see-though/hard to see 5-15 meters away, and fully visible inside 5 meters.
This would achieve a few things:
- Survivors sprinting around & not paying attention are more likely to step in them.
- Survivors moving slowly and paying attention will avoid them.
- SWFs can no longer look at traps from across the map and tell their hive mind that they exist.
And he should be able to 'toss' them maybe 5 meters away from himself while moving, so he's wasting less time bending over and putting them down. But they take a few seconds to arm, so he can't just yeet them ahead of a fleeing Survivor.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308013#Comment_3308013
'A buff' does not mean it is immediately OP. No one is advocating for bumping the range from 6 to 60, just enough that the killer can't simply stand on the staircase and completely block the perk's one purpose.
And it's nearly useless because it barely buys extra time. Those extra thirty seconds on the hook are paid for by another survivor going up to the hook and activating the perk first, so the perk's effect, even completely unopposed, is not that significant. Since the survivor has to get close, if the killer manages to injure the survivor running the perk, it's even worse, since that's free pressure for the killer on top of a bunch of extra time wasted.
So overall, the perk is pretty bad. The only situation in which it could have done some work was before the crippling nerf, against hard-camping killers. Now it's borderline useless against hard-camping killers, and completely useless against hard-camping killers in the basement.
Do you see why this perk is not very good and could do with a minute little itty bit of a buff?
And while 1 Survivor goes and uses the perk; 2 more are doing gens with pressure to unhook taken off them.
Not to mention it causes the Killer to camp longer before a person dies on the hook, once again buying 2 Survivors time to do gens for longer before the camping killer is back to hunting.
You're acting like the time economy is the same for Killer and Survivor, and you're wrong. The Killer can't camp & patrol gens at the same time (barring a 3 gen). Survivors CAN sneak towards the hook AND do gens, because there's 4 of them.
And if the Survivor is found; well, risk vs reward. Making the ranger longer is literally lowering the risk and raising the reward.
The Perk is buying time for OTHER Survivors to do gens unopposed by a camping Killer longer. So no, it does not need a tiny buff.
Plus, it was broken before the nerf, and easily abuseable to troll with.
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@Distortion_Enjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305425#Comment_3305425
your goal as killer is not to kill at all, killing is just an eventual consequence same with escaping, it's to feed the entity and satisfy her, the goal for both sides is to gain as many bloodpoints as possible, not to rush to the ending, which is what the entity pays you for feeding it entertainment and emotion, if you kill too fast it tells you by giving you a lower rank, brutal killer and when you satisfy the entity your rewarded with merciless killer
Mechanically, the goal as the KILLER is TO KILL. It's in the damn name.
The Killer does not win by making the Entity happy or spreading hooks around. He gets a positive message if he gets 3 or 4 kills, and 'Entity Displeased' at anything lower.
You're just pushing what you think the goal of the Killer is onto the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307841#Comment_3307841
But that's the point, how would that make it OP? The whole, singular purpose of this perk is to buy a little extra time if the killer is zealously guarding the hook. It is useless if the killer isn't doing that. Even if the killer IS doing that, the perk got slammed so badly that it's still nearly useless.
So how would bumping the range a little bit make it 'OP'?
Nothing you said makes the perk useless. In fact, it does exactly what you said it's supposed to do; buy a little extra time.
And I explained how it would be made OP if the range were increased: Survivors could run past hooks from further away. Further away = safer from the Killer being able to chase or hit as quickly.
How is it 'nearly useless' when it does exactly what you say it's supposed to do, except for the basement hooks?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307807#Comment_3307807
It's a niche perk with little to no use at all, why does making it viable against basement camping make it viable, because it certainly doesn't make it OP in any situation, lmao.
Such a buff would make it OP in every other hook situation, since it would then be activated from further away, and thus from a safer distance.
Just because YOU think it has no use does not mean it has no use.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359759/give-props-report-feature
Not a bad idea but the cynic in me thinks people would use it just to write bad stuff.
I was about to say the same thing.
People would 'give props' and write insults and threats, effectively bypassing people who have muted the endgame chat & have private profiles.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307777#Comment_3307777
How is it OP? What does this perk actually do that makes it 'OP'?
I said buffing it's range would MAKE it OP. Not that it is OP now.
@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307787#Comment_3307787
This is pretty funny actually, make up some claim that I wanted something buffed (which I didn't) and then bail on the conversation, it is useless, and people arguing against any change to it at all probably want to keep it that way.
Every killer and their dog said Reassurance was going to be so hard to deal with and such a pain and I've seen it be used less than 10 times since the perk came out, it's useless
Have fun making up arguments with people about things they didn't say.
And yet you yourself made up a claim that I said the perk should be useless.
Pot, meet kettle. Dial back the hypocrisy.
You claiming it's useless because you want it buffed does not mean it is useless, nor does it mean I ever made that claim.
And you still have yet to address my comment that buffing it to give Survivors EZ Basement uses would make it too powerful with literally every other hook. No? Going to keep flogging that high horse?
As you yourself said: Have fun making up arguments with people about things they didn't say.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307782#Comment_3307782
"people want to be able to stand above the shack"
PEOPLE, Not Me. At least use a comment before I asked you to prove it, again, I'll wait, because I've not asked for a single buff in this thread, lmao.
And yet you claimed I wanted it to be 'useless' and have yet to show where I ever said that.
You also have yet to actually address my comments past an avalanche of cellphone abbreviations. So I don't see why I should be bothered to go back through your own posts when you can't be bothered to read mine.
Have a good evening.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307774#Comment_3307774
My guy, show me where I said to increase the range, lmao.
Ok:
@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307777#Comment_3307777
"from the shack doorway"
LMAO, people want to be able to stand above the shack and proc it, not from the doorway, like running through the shack and procking it holy lord lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
That's 'increasing the range'.
Why don't you show me where I said I wanted it to be useless?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307757#Comment_3307757
Okay, if you're not supposed to use this perk when the killer is camping, what DO you use it for?
You can use it while the Killer camps. Survivors just want a handhold buff that allows them to use it from the Shack doorway with 0 risk/100% reward, while once again ignoring my point that buffing its range for Shack handholds makes it OP everywhere else.
Anyone going to discuss that? Or am I safe to assume I'm correct at this point?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307762#Comment_3307762
No need to read your "points", can't imagine finding any logic from someone stating that you should just use the camping perk "when the killer isn't there". How do you not see that as entirely invalidating anything you say afterwards? You clearly want the perk to be beyond useless and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
Also, as you keep bringing it up, please show me where I said to buff Reassurance, I'll wait.
Making the effective range larger is a buff. That's literally how buffs work.
And now you're saying it's a useless perk because you can't EZ the basement? And you have yet to actually refute my point that buffing it makes it broken everywhere else.
On, right; because you decided to ignore my posts since you had no counter arguments.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307757#Comment_3307757
Don't use the anti camping perk while the killer is camping?
I absolutely did not need to read any more of that after your first sentence, lmao.
I see. You had no actual talking points so you went for 'I did not read it, lmao'. Too bad ignoring my points does not invalidate them.
How's this: Not every hook will have great ways to use Reassurance. Learn how to use it instead of asking for unneeded buffs that will make it OP.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307741#Comment_3307741
Killers stand on stairs and then it's basically guaranteed death, and you don't even get to freeze the timer, but please, carry on, lmao.
Don't do it while the Killer is there?
You're basically asking to use a perk, risk free, that stops the Killer's one goal in the game. That's Survivors for you. 'This perk that literally freezes the Killer's one goal is not easier to use in the Killer Shack! Make bigger so we can do it frisk free!'
And making it larger would make it even safter on the other 99.9% of hooks, allowing Survivors to run by too far away to risk being chased or hit. Which, hey, that'd be the Killer's problem, I guess? As long as Survivors get their risk-free basement pausing.
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Not a fan of FNAF. I'd pass.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307537#Comment_3307537
It's only 0 risk if the killer chooses to sit in the basement, and that's their fault isn't it?
Or you can take the risk by going down the stairs, instead of expecting the game to hand you hook delay with 0 risk.
I know being more than 5 meters from the God Pallet is scary, though.